 Antonia. Nice to see you. Good to see you. Nate. Hi, it's like Madeleine dropped off. I just sent Hattie to the town website for the link. Oh, I think I emailed it out, but. I don't know. I didn't. I told her, but I. Now I've told her. Oh, she sent something a minute ago. I like how you're floating in the flowers. I don't know. How are things, Nate? What's this? How are things? It'll be nice when we're starting to find a new planner for. Ben's position. Yep. It's only been. What's that? It's only been like, you know, a year. You know, over 14 months. Yeah. Does that mean we lose you again? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Not for a while. Yeah, not for a while, but, you know, I have three night meetings this week. I had two last week. We have three next week. Just. Oh yeah. Just telling that, like, you love us the best. Well, I mean, it's interesting the, you know, it's like, oh, many's might only meet once a month, but. You know, maybe twice and then if you staffing like a number of committees, it just, it adds up. Oh yeah, definitely. For sure. Hi, everyone. Sorry about not getting the link out. That's all right. I'm just. Needing the baby steps today. Like that today too. It's a long month, January. Long month of no snow. I know. Cloud for the sun. I know it's like this, this, you know, my brain is like, don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. You got months, months to go. Yep. The past. And said she wouldn't be here. So I think this is everyone. Okay. Great. Hi, Madeline. I think this is a relatively quick meeting. But I wasn't filing my email. Close enough. Did you mention something about a demolition hearing? Yeah. I think I did an email everyone. I forgot if I did, but 1240 southeast street. It's kind of in south. It is in South Amherst. And there was a fire in it. Maybe last year, a year ago. And it was like that. cemetery. It's like one kind of on the southeast corner of the cemetery opposite side of the street and it's a 19th century house and had like a attached garage and a barn and the fire started I think in the middle section and it completely burned the middle section in the barn and it also damaged the house and so it's been unlivable. I mean if you drive by it's the house is standing but I guess you know the insurance company the owner is everyone saying it's a total loss. I'm not you know and so they're looking to rebuild something new on the site and so we could hold the hearing on it or we could have an emergency demolition process because it's you know it you know because of the fire so you know they have to you know it wouldn't the building commissioner is like we can't administratively approve it so they submitted an application recently and they they're you know I think it's I think the I asked for interior photographs which they submitted today and I even I think tomorrow it's probably deemed the application complete and then you know determine whether or not it's you know they could follow like an emergency demolition process but oh so does an emergency demolition bypass us or just convenes a meeting sooner or you know honestly I forget how what the final verdict was I think it's usually like maybe Robin like myself and someone from the commission and a few others would then look at the site and determine if it you know and we used to tell people that by the time it takes to get everyone together to have a meeting and a site visit is almost just as much time as going through the demolition hearing process so but I forgot how we I thought we made a little tweak in the new bylaw and I'm not I forget exactly what it is so yeah I mean so if we don't and it's deemed complete tomorrow we'll have to hold the hearing you know in the next few weeks well you know three to four weeks right so it'd be a meeting just for that hearing yeah I mean I guess if we needed to talk about anything else Shannon from PVPC had been sick pretty sick I guess at the end of last year and so she is hoping I thought she was going to try to get it to me this week the a new version of the preservation plan okay so it could be that we you know we have a few things to discuss but okay okay well it is 639 we're recording so and we have forum so we can call the meeting to order at 639 meeting of the Amherst Historical Commission on February 5th 2024 I will read our preamble um pursuant to governor bakers march 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general law c 30a section 18 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter 22 of the acts of 2022 and extended legislature on july 14th 2022 and signed into law in july 16th 2022 this public meeting of the town of Amherstis Recreation is being conducted by a remote participation members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means hyperlink to the hearing has been posted on the town's online calendar so our first agenda item is announcements um I think I have a few things and I don't know if they go in announcements or unanticipated items um I know that I just I apologize everybody I sent in super last minute um I sent an email that I received regarding whether the commission would like a non-voting counselor liaison maybe Nate can speak to that a little bit more authoritatively than me yeah town council you know it's a new council and they're reaching out to boards and committees sometimes counselors can become a liaison to you know the boards or committees in town they would have tried to attend the meetings report back and so it was asked if the commission would want one and you know the meetings are open to the public they are recorded and they're available you know Pilda's here she usually reports on them so you know they can always watch after the facts uh you know I it's a matter of you know do we want to have someone uh to try to come to the meetings I you know some of the other committees I work with we said no we don't we could work make a formal request or not and you know one committee said they didn't think it was it was necessary just because of the fact that you know if they're you know if we need to we can always invite uh a counselor specifically or that the meetings are available otherwise um does anybody have any thoughts about that when you're shaking your head agree with me I feel the same way as those others uh committee said I don't think we really need somebody but madame you're you're hard to hear I could hear you but I don't know if it's if it's something with your microphone yeah I might volume up really high yeah I mean my only thought was just whether it would be useful for somebody from the council to actually I mean historic preservation uh practices aren't necessarily kind of commonly known by the public and whether it would be useful for somebody to um join us and have a sense of what we do and how we discuss things when things do end up kind of before the the council like particularly with cpa but militia delay was a fact too and I mean it's just a request like they don't really participate they just kind of release on and and and create a clearer channel to the town council potentially I think my thoughts were reading it all very quickly was that it it seemed like a good idea um if the town councilors have a time and interest you know which I doubt time why they have because I know it's a pretty heavy heavy load um but I'm not I would vote yes if it comes to that based on the emails that you sent robin um I have no no objection I think it's the more eyes on what's going on the better yeah I mean rob I do agree with what you said I think you know when we were the commission was updating the bylaw the demolition bylaw you know the preservation bylaw I know some members of the council didn't really understand its purpose or you know what it maybe the benefits of it and so I still think there's a misperception that historic preservation is only for like the high brow architecture you know the you know the pinnacle of the Victorian era and everything else is not really worthy or you know it's like every only one one one property from each design or something and and I think the idea is a preservation I've changed and so you know it could be that um maybe we maybe we maybe the commission says you know what if there is if the counselor has time and is interested we yeah we like it and you know I don't want to I guess you know that would be the next step is if we did that and then we maybe robin there'd be a follow-up there could be a follow-up discussion um yeah I mean I'm comfortable with that Antonio Michela do you have any thoughts yeah I'm my only concern would be the difficulty of scheduling with them but it's that I saw that the attendance is not mandatory so um it seems like they could basically have the responsibility for watching the recorded session on their own time and report to the council as needed so I think it's a good idea too and I'd be happy to have a liaison yeah yeah yeah I think it could be beneficial um but also like I think due to the nature that they are recorded would help with like the practical aspect and like of making it happen but also not necessarily like I don't think it's a thousand percent necessary but like it would is always helpful another eye yeah that sounds like our vote just our vote just says sure if somebody's interested it doesn't necessarily guarantee more require that anyone come over from the council right yeah the um yeah we wouldn't typically schedule you know if there was if we had a liaison and they really wanted to attend and you know there's always a conflict at our monthly meetings it's like oh maybe every you know once every few months we could change our meeting to allow them to attend I just you know typically we wouldn't schedule um you know for their because of their um you know what they're what you know what they could or couldn't attend and so I think maybe in a response robin you could write and say that we typically meet on you know whatever it is Monday or Tuesday whatever we think might be for the next year right just give them the time and yeah okay um so I learned a trick at a commission meeting that I went to uh where the chair says the chair will entertain a motion to affirm a request for town liaison this takes all the pressure off you guys to create a motion the chair will entertain a motion uh uh to affirm a request for a town liaison uh town council liaison to the historical commission I second second it yeah he would so I think right I would close it yes sorry move yes right yes yeah so so I do I have a second to the motion how do you move the motion forward I'll second okay so I'll have a roll call vote uh to affirm uh a request for a liaison from the town council to the historical commission by Antonia uh I or nay I I I Eddie hi Micaela hi Madeline hi all right and I vote aye as well so that's five zero okay great um before we move on can you give me the address for the barn in near the cemetery in south Hamas I was trying to be a good doobie and pay attention properly and not multitask but do you have that address again sure it's it's 1240 southeast 14 thank you yeah okay so if you drive by uh it may not be apparent I think the exterior is in pretty good shape but it's you know the interior inside okay thanks okay um so um other announcements Nate other announcements you know I'd emailed you two one was um um oh yeah uh the um preservation awards you know there's um yeah I was going to stick that since it's one of our one and five year goals okay under there all right and then I know we had um we have a site visit but we have that further down so I don't think there are other I don't think there are other announcements per se oh actually one more announcement um the AFNI annual meeting I think that's their name um I can't remember what the um I'm doing this off the top of my head this is a architectural preservation I think is the AP group um they have really interesting sessions um all over the region like they had one in upstate New York on um historic window preservation and they're having their annual meeting at us uh in early March um so I'm going to make a note to send you guys out maybe I already did you did yeah link to the program there's a um a campus tour um I think at three o'clock on Friday um you know the rest of it is kind of very particular to actual um um real conservation in terms of preservation like real physical architectural stuff um that's their focus but um I don't know how do you and I went to uh Doka Momo which was the um um modern architecture conference they're really fun things to go to if you have time just kind of let the information wash over you so um but did everybody get that email I know I sent it to Hedy but I don't understand it to everybody else anybody no yes no I'll send it again okay um all right so that's um that's the end of announcements unless anybody has anything else you know um Madeline I saw a um I saw a there's a um just a lecture on embodied carbon in existing buildings in mid-march through the western massachusetts aia I can I'll send that around great thank you anybody else okay moving along um so discussion of our one year and five year goals um we have preservation plan comments I mean I know we got an executive summary Nate do you want to speak to that a little bit more uh it looked good yeah I think if you know again if we had comments I would just you know individual commission members could send them to me and I can forward them to pvpc and uh and then I guess was that a was that a um a pdf thank you yeah and that was just two pages right yeah I think they did a good job I mean my only formatting uh issues at some point it just turns everything as an uppercase which is a little but other than that it looks good I'm just very excited for that preservation go ahead Hedy they seem to get everything we mentioned yeah I mean it's brief so I guess that's good you know um it says you know key actions and goals I guess I mean if we I mean Robin if we thought that maybe the second page could be formatted a little differently I mean that's I'm you know I think that's fair okay I mean the idea would be that you know we could use this in presentations or it can be you know this you know it could be emailed around and if we if we like it great if we have comments you can send those to me okay um is it just thinking I'm just gonna say yeah okay I have a thought but it went in one side of my brain and out the other um so we're still in a state so Shana has been a while so presumably she's taking time to rest and we'll hear from her again about when the next iteration would be yeah I emailed her the discussion the commission had the other month I told her you know like start on you know 29 minutes and 40 seconds whatever it was and all the comments and she said she was working through everything and I think she had said last week she was trying to get something to me this week so okay you know it'd be great to send that out and hopefully it's it looks good and we could just you know look at it at the next meeting and maybe maybe that's a final plan okay um oh I know what I was going to say I can send her um hour one and five your goals just you know if that's useful for her I don't think I've done that okay um and then in terms of our one and five your goals um I prepared but I realized since I was looking at it I didn't realize if I'd send it out or not did I send you guys um committee assignments okay great I put all those fancy colors but I did yeah so um the next step is for us to sort of connect with whoever we're um lined up with and and start to try to particularly the one-year goals try to move things forward I will confess to having had slow January and not um turning my attention to I I did make some progress on um documenting 140 so 140 140 southeast street and um we did make progress there and after uh Hedy and I went for a site visit we took pictures and then I did further research um I contacted um Amir um to talk about being able to be present at the demolition to see if one we could salvage the floorboards um Jan Mark Markhart had said she thought she could find I can't remember if she said she thought she could find a use for them I think so and um also um Erika Doya uh thought he could find um somebody who would be interested in the granite um facing that's around the foundation um but also to take a look at the framing of the structure inside which might give us better indication of of its actual um its actual date of construction and Amir was very responsive to that and said he would let us know before they were planning to take it down and so that could be an exciting event um and at the close of that my goal is to have a form B to submit to the town and and MHC so that that building is documented and I can close the chapter on it um preservation the other so that was one timely matter um preservation nominations uh I know that um Hedy was the only one who indicated an interest and I know that she's overwhelmed with many things so we do have two award programs that are going on right now the first is the the convo ward I can't remember the name of it and there was some interest in the commission um nominating um Anika Lopes if I'm pronouncing that correctly um for her work I looked I had thought that too and I looked into it and it looked like she had received award or the award a couple of years ago um but um the more important or the well the more salient fact is that we need somebody who'd be willing to prepare a nomination so if it's going to come from the historical commission we need somebody to prepare the nomination and then we probably would have to meet after it's prepared to just kind of review it and approve it um what is this award ceremony sorry so um this it's the MS Historical Society yes thank you it's their award conch like the shell and um I took a look at everything and and had every intention of trying to figure it out but I think it's it's really like a partnership between us as the commission and whoever it is we want to nominate sort of creating this conversation preferably online in some kind of shared software where you have them respond to all of the issues that are needing to be put into the proposal to nominate them and there's a separate piece of software that is used um wait a minute am I getting mixed up between the I think that's a preservation loss yeah sorry I'm getting the two mixed up oh I knew I would but anyway I'm talking about the Preservation Massachusetts award and that is a separate piece of software so it just means you have to be up on exactly what is required in order to nominate them and and for all I know it may be much less um complicated for the MS Historical Society conch shell award so I'm just going to forward the email to everybody right now um just as the award goes to a person business or organization that has contributed to the preservation and awareness of Amherst history has demonstrated a commitment to education and interpretation and has used innovative and creative methods to showcase Amherst historical resources um oh but let's see yep sorry we missed the boat on this one deadline was January 27th so and I will say that I think when I looked at this one um Debra Bridges and Annika Lobs did receive the award in 2022 so I'm sure it was Cindy Harbison um okay that's that one uh and then Preservation Mass the deadline is late February I think and that's what Heather was just talking about um and there we were talking that Preservation Mass awards are statewide and there are five different categories and several years ago I had wanted to nominate the Amherst uh North Amherst farm for their preservation project um this would be the last year that they would need that they could be nominated because it has to be completed within the last five years um but without somebody to do the late work um you know that's just that's just part of the process is you know if we can do it we can do it if we can't we can't so I apologize on this other one um but I think it came in after our last meeting and the deadlines this one so um going forward are any other members interested in working on nomination sale come around this time there's usually a program from um MHC as well um so we can just kind of keep it in our calendar to expect expect it around the beginning of the year um but anyone else interested in that type of work or we'll just leave it in Heddy's Court okay um and then I don't really have anything else to report on our goals this month I don't know if anybody else has any thoughts or questions about moving forward or um if we want to just try to come I'll try to collectively take a look at what we're thinking what we think we'd like to accomplish and and come next month with questions or comments about that process any thoughts yeah excuse me I think that'd be good to keep it on the agenda as a running item okay some of these things I um I am trying to get a um a draft or a template for the preservation restriction working with the town attorneys and so we have some EPA projects that are you know we're kind of holding some retainage funding until it's done and then you know we have a whole new round that'll be getting funding next year and so it'd be nice to have uh that ready and so that's always been kind of a slower piece of the project so um you know I've done some work to have a template and I'm sure it needs to get reviewed but yeah I'm trying to get that going okay great any other thoughts or comments for this evening's meeting on our one and five year goals okay here are none um let's say we have updates um documentation on 4555 South Pleasant Street and I think we also want to try to schedule a site visit there is that right Nate I think Hedy's been doing the documentation and um Nate you're going to try to coordinate a site visit for any of us who want to attend right and then um Ed Wolfer had done some research I think I sent that around to the commission did okay thank you yeah I mean I you know Hedy you can have a you can have the floor in a minute what I was going to say is I think uh you know what I spoke with a building commissioner about how we could condition demolitions and so you know there's a few ways we could go about it and this one we had issued a sixth the commission issued a six month delay and said it would be great if you had more documentation um you know but some some owners or developers might wait the delay and not really provide much and then the delay expires he actually thinks that if he thinks the commission could say you can take down the building or whatever only after you've provided these things and actually issued the delay with conditions so that you know maybe the first thing is an updated inventory form you know uh interior exterior photographs you know is it I don't know if we want to require measure drawings but you know we could say architectural drawings or renderings and so these are the opinion that the way the bylaw is structured now different than there was you know the previous version we could actually issue a you know for anyone for any of them it might be as effective as saying you know you know you're you're you can demolish the building after you meet these conditions and you know it might be that it's it's appropriate for you know a fair number of the demolition applications and maybe others we put a full year on because we really need that time to see if there is different alternatives but if you know for instance in this case if the commission seemed like it was willing to allow demolition a different strategy could be to require these things of the applicant and then you know we can also still have a site to visit and everything but you know it would put kind of some of the the onus on them to do this and so you know and I think maybe the goal for me would be like let's get an updated inventory form for every property at least in photographs and other things and so you know some owners and developers don't have the resources to do the research and that's why a delay is important because it might also then be on the commission or staff to do that but I think we could gauge that you know for every for every application and I think that's just a different way it's a different approach than we've had in the past and so that's incredibly good news Nate to hear you talk like this and especially given how close these buildings are to the center of town of Amherst center I'm very heartened to hear that as a kind of way of proceeding because where I've got to is I feel like there's still a lot of questions to be answered and I also feel that the building that is at the far back of the site so it's the rear L but it's the L of the L is in really good shape and if we if we could get a condition report on the structural integrity and finishings of that building it would it would be helpful and I'm still you know really sort of in the weeds with this performance space that was used by the sorority that Ed Wilford talks about and the people at special collections at Amherst College talk about and some it's documented as on the third floor of the Cutler building and then it's documented but actually you walk on to the you walk up to the second floor in fretted instruments and then you go up these stairs into the back to see the space another maybe half level really which is what the developers are struggling with in terms of their proposals for the site the apartments and that's where this space is and the more I dig the more I find but I also feel like I'm not at the end point of you know what exactly is here you know it's a little bit like 140 southeast street with what we saw there at that house you know be really nice to be around when you know the the wrecking ball comes to to see what's to see where things that actually are located you know drawings would be another way at the moment we've got photographic evidence we've got documentary evidence we've got oral history evidence but I feel like we're not we're not in good shape enough to tell the story of of what really is going on then it's it's a really cool story for Amherst College but they own they they have an avested interest in what's going to be happening at that building so maybe maybe it's sort of not that important but as I said I'm heartened by what you're saying um I have a couple thoughts my first thought is um with with the demolition delay structured the way it is um I mean I think that I think my feeling is that I want to tread carefully between documentation and and kind of onerous requirements and um most documentation can happen after the fact like after the building comes down um so and I and I don't know if if we were tabling a discussion around around a permit making a decision like saying that like we don't have enough information to decide whether or not to you know allow this permit or you know impose a delay um I think that would be the moment to come in for something like a conditions report but I feel like um I mean I you know I as I'm learning I'm facing this in my work too like you can go down a lot of rabbit holes and you know the history is so fascinating but there's just a reality of the process that's underway and you know the fact that not everything can be saved so I'm curious if you know saying like you can't take down the building unless you you know complete a a structures report the whether that would pass the legal tasks like that would be my first question you know and then the second question is is that necessary and then my third thought is just you know I sort of feel like I'm I'm gearing myself up to be the one to kind of or not the one but like to start to move us toward being able to quickly either you know either leaning on members of the community or who are really good at this type of research to to do quick documentation um and and move things forward in a way that like we can you know keep moving on um and because you know it's so easy to like I said it's so easy to go down these rabbit holes and um I don't want I wouldn't want to see the process become bogged down in a way that would you know even as a preservationist I wouldn't want to see the process be bogged down in a way that would become onerous for for developers so I've you know kind of I want to recognize that you know there's a lot I mean what documentation do we absolutely need to do before something is rubble and I think the reason why I mean I think that they um the um the 45 or 55 whichever one it is so wasn't straight you know it's you know is curious physically and so is 140 south southeast street and so there could arguments for you know if we could kind of get in there behind the walls but I think you have to have pretty specific goals in mind so those are all my thoughts and I I think my last thought was just that um I'm happy to do this kind of work documenting things I think it might be challenging for them not being in the field to bring to us what we want them to bring to us in a certain period of time where somebody like um um are wonderful you know people who who are wonderful volunteers outside the commission or um members of the commission um could probably do a pretty quick turnaround of of the essentials of what we need to know that makes sense other thoughts Nate you're shaking your head a little bit I'll just you know the building commissioner did suggest that yeah so you know who knows legally someone might argue with it but um you know if there's a reason for it and so you know the building commissioner said it could also be that the commission you know you could continue a hearing for three months and say we we don't have enough information on this we want a structures report and a little more research and so you know I you know I I agree Robin it's a balance and sometimes I feel like applicants will you know they'll um they might take some pictures they might do a little bit of research and other times it seems like they just they don't right they just they're not that interested and it's hard to determine what the level of their capacity is but yeah in this case the developers have done some research and I think it was John of John of Coon Riddle who um you know says in a um article in the Daily Hampshire Gazette that the Hastings building is by William Fenno Pratt um so even though that's not going to be demolished you know obviously the two that the elements together make up a a sort of grouping of buildings you know that that are connected through this new stairwell I think you know Pratt is a really important architect in Amherst having designed pretty important buildings for the for the town and you know maybe we we need to just be sure you know that we're taking care of that of that building um I you know and that um you know I was a little disappointed I have to say with the design review board um who really only commented on the colors of the new building I know that that's nothing to do with our purview but I feel like um we want to get this right and and I don't think we're at that point I I found some really wonderful photographs of the early artwork that Michaela was concerned about back in earlier discussions about this property these two properties um so I'd like to kind of think have us think about the space in terms of its history in terms of public art in Amherst it looks like we're going to lose all of that um so it just it it's just another layer of the documentation that I think it it it it's would be useful to have um yeah no I think that there's I mean I think that everything I think one of my goals going forward is sort of everything that comes before the the the commission you know like you're saying that you know the Hastings building touches on this one that's going to be demolished um you know it's it fits within our goal to update our inventory um and so all those pieces are great and let's get them down in paper and either either we're creating a file that stays with the town or we're developing a full form B and that we're moving through kind of quickly and effectively I did want to say that I'm really glad that you mentioned the design review board because um you know Hattie and I just were chatting between ourselves um about the proposed design and I realized that we've never really had that discussion as a commission and there are a couple of different angles one is that we do have a representative to the design review board and we do have the opportunity as a commission to um try to more proactively talk about these buildings that are coming in and how they interact with the historic environment so that's one thing um and then the second kind of more aggressive option that I think we'd have to be kind of more confident like um would be to say if a particular building was coming down and something was replacing it we had we get into this kind of these kind of weeds where we say well we can't really decide whether it should come down or not based on what comes next and that's kind of true that's not really our charge but at the same time my understanding and working with Chris Scully was that we can say it's not our charge but we're going to impose a 12 month delay but if you like to have a delay and sooner we'd be happy to engage with you over design and again like this is a much more proactive and and I'm not sure that we would want to make that step but that's potential to say well shorten your delay if you give us the opportunity to work with you on design and I don't think you've even had a building maybe before this one where we've wanted to have that kind of power and now that we've already passed um a six month delay on and not impose that for self pleasant street we're not having that discussion now but I think the designer view board is important and that we I don't know that we've said as a commission that we'd like to talk about how and and I think Madeline maybe can speak more effectively to this or had a like how do we as a commission want to have a role in terms of talking about having both new architecture and also have new architecture that talks to the old architecture like in the way that the Jones Library was you know yeah yeah no I mean I I don't have anything like definitive to say but I just want to share my thoughts that I you know building like that is really valuable for the whole like kind of the land the cultural landscape of the street it just adds variety and kind of texture and something different and it has this sort of scale that is at the street level and it's different materials and and so you know those are part of the the character of the street and that's our purview is like to protect the sort of feeling the sense of place especially of just this like really important downtown street so I mean I think that it definitely is I mean that's why I would value a building like that I'm not quite as interested in sort of doc I mean I support what everyone believes but I don't really really need to document it and sort of like put it in a drawer but I just want to make sure that you know it's I'm more interested in just making sure that the scale and sort of the feeling and the sense of place is is continued with with whatever comes next and like to yeah I think infill is definitely something that we're interested in as well and yeah so I would I would presume yeah I think it would be great to like sort of guide the guide those decisions as well if we can yeah um do you want to just kind of weigh in on what the design review board does and Pat's role there and just like don't correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember getting a lot of sort of feedback on what what's going on there in terms of what's important to this commission yeah I think you know the town has hired Datsun and Flinker to develop downtown design standards uh streetscape standards and architectural standards and that's something that I'll be really starting uh maybe this month or next month and you know the commission can be involved in that as you know part of a stakeholder group with other boards and committees and so I think that'll be an opportunity to talk about what you know what are the architectural elements and design features that we'd want to see in new buildings and so you know is it something about the rhythm of windows and patterns of open space and scale and all these things relative massing proportions and so you know I think that would be really important so you know for instance they mentioned that um we got one meeting with them that you know Kendrick Place uh you know often is used in visual preference surveys and people don't like that building and it could be that you know it doesn't have um a roof line right um it you know it doesn't have any cornice or details some of the windows are oddly um I don't want to say they're misaligned but you know they have a different pattern than uh older buildings and so you know within the context of Amherst it's like oh could a few changes on that building maybe a stronger sign ban between the first and second floors you know different things if there's like four or five tweaks to that building would that be enough guidance and standards to help that relate better to Amherst and so I'm hoping that's what they're going to kind of address it's going to it's going to be a multi-month process and so that like I said I think that's a really great time for the commission to get involved you know and I think some of the questions for me would be what is the design review board what's their role after these standards are um you know completed so the design review board it's an advisory board you know there's a design review district in downtown or any town projects they review the project uh there's a design there's design review principles in the zoning byline then there's a design review handbook online and it talks you know about basic things like I just mentioned kind of rhythm pattern massing um and they you know they can provide comments on development so it's an advisory review that would go to the permitting board in this case the planning board and so you know their review of the new building at 55 45 south pleasant you know they focused on a few things they didn't focus on a lot and it could have been that you know the building isn't highly visible from the street but um you know so it really you know I think it depends on you know kind of how you know what what kind of how they're empowered to look at something so you know there's an architect or two or two architects on the board um they have been you know people with different experience so it might be just you know helping them maybe not it for a little bit but helping them understand what they can how they could comment on it you know typically the design review board most often it's like looking at sign changes to downtown businesses or you know they're going to put outdoor dining out what is kind of outdoor dining look like uh you know new lighting it's I feel like in the last um probably two or three years they haven't really looked at you know it's maybe only been one or two buildings new building so oftentimes it's more about you know additions or you know smaller changes so it just you know I don't I could have been like a new you know they're new members or how do they look at a new building but so for the commission for this one if you wanted we could meet in March and we could actually have a discussion about the new building and you know and with the goal of writing a memo to the planning board so I know that they're trying to get in front of the planning board in March for permitting for you know for the land use permit and the commission could uh could take it up as you know we could ask the applicant to give a presentation or we just take it upon ourselves to look at it okay um I mean like one question would be who would be writing the memo like there's no point in having the meeting if we don't have anybody and I just can't dedicate time to that right now oh would it be something that would fall in your coordinate or I mean it can yeah I think that you know if we I'd like to in the end structure the the vote with you know whether it's like a dozen and a half dozen whatever kind of key points you know is it materials is it uh you know building high certain things um so yeah I think that's that that can be conveyed I can do that okay that sounds good any other thoughts or comments on that Antonia um one question I had I guess this is more like for the future in similar um I guess demolition hearings um as one of my my agenda items was like the signage um for the town um how like how would I should I go about doing that would that still apply in this case or since it already has happened yeah I think Nate this was something that I had brought up um for potential interests for commissioners to have signs before demolition hearing um and I think I I put an example sign it was the example sign was from Annapolis and it was actually for uh I don't know it might have been for historic district hearing but it was you know this substantial sign that you know they read that they reuse place to place you know a little whiteboard that says you know they'll be hearing in this state in this time and I just wonder if that would you know it seems like a simple enough um idea and whether it would generate more interest in people coming forward for demolition hearings if that's something that we're interested in so I would assume Antonia maybe you would want to engage with Nate to talk about whether the town would be up or something like that is that am I on the right track Nate yeah you know if it depending on size it could be like a temporary sign that goes in the pub you know the public right of way the difficulty is you know what a private property and or let us you know put on their building for instance so that it advertises but I think that's something we could talk about right yeah the um I thought you actually meant signage to after the fact and so you know Ed Wilford had said with with this site and property he would like it if there was interpretive material in for instance what if there was a you know um something akin to like the writer's walk sign put somewhere over you know some mention of it in a lobby maybe a picture and just something and so you know it you know for down the road I mean we can't make all these conditions for every project but you know it's something they consider what do we want to have in terms of public record or what's visible to the public but for what you're asking yeah let's you know we can send emails and figure out how to do that so we could I'm even thinking we would print something on like a quarter or half inch vinyl and it could be you know 24 by 36 or whatever size and um and then you know it could be moved around or I'll have to talk to the building commissioner and others about kind of logistics but yeah yeah Antonia I can help with that I think um I'm your teammate with that one I was thinking we could share just sort of like examples of other cities yeah I could be helpful to have as you know part of the request yeah I mean I I'm not sure what I hope with what we would get out of it I mean maybe one aspect would be just um you know more salvage you know who knows who knows what might happen but it does seem like um it's I think it's always shocking for somebody to see something coming down and not have none it was coming down so for that for that alone okay um so I think we're done with discussion in that area um barn chores and assessment I have not made progress on that apologies I'm going to try to do something for the next meeting um macros inventory forms and demolitions um Nate I had a question I know uh I'm working with Hattie I'm trying to find a really efficient way to pull together resources um and I know that um there are certain provisions in terms of open meeting law with like shared google documents and things like that um I was trying to figure out if I could share one drive just or like a drop box because I find it a little I find it overwhelming and you know things kind of get lost to have to kind of have everything come into my email and sort of things out and file them so um that would be my question um and in terms of like if I wanted to lead you know a group at my house on you know how to use ancestry dot com or you know deed research you know just to like do a quick lesson for commissioners like do I have to keep below forum or um what are the rules there yeah so I think that um you know the local historic district has used our study committee the local historic district study committee we've used shared files and we do have an opinion from the state that says you know information sharing is not a violation of open meeting so you know as long as we're not conversing online outside of a public meeting so that you know something like a completing inventory form could be shared with the whole commission resources can be shared that what we couldn't have happen is you know um say before or you know have comment happen on what we think is why the building is significant in terms of say a proposed demolition of it so it could be that you know you're doing bibliography you know research you have some you know references and you have a bibliography going and then you know like oh I need some you know let's let's research the owner history a little bit more and the head he does some research and then you know someone else chimes in and that's all fine the the um that's what we've done with the study committee they complete inventory forms online in a report the you know we just can't be then having conversations about you know why we wouldn't issue a delay or something you know we complete the inventory form that's fine uh same with um the ancestry piece I think you know if you wanted we could do it over zoom it could be a public meeting and we post it and you share screen or I think you know to me that's just information sharing it could just be that maybe it's a subquorum of members and you know you could walk them through it but again to me that's there's nothing there so to me that's fine that's not a violation of open meeting law at all you know unless like you're talking about something under the commission's jurisdiction specifically an amorous a property or something but okay okay um and then what um how is the local instruct district doing file sharing what did they use saying I'm just curious yeah so the town we can't use Dropbox anymore it's uh it's actually um an insecure okay okay well from a town's perspective and it's an insecure file sharing system yeah we do uh share drive or one drive um that's the Microsoft right so I mean if the commission wanted to set up a Dropbox for themselves I can always access it at home and then you know and put the information on on my one drive uh so it's really whatever is to say comfortable with commissioners you know could be google you know whatever okay okay all right I'm good to that because that would be good and helpful um does anybody have any thoughts around um macros inventory at this point or other questions about or one in five year goals I'm gonna say 45 to 55 self pleasant I you know I've been emailing with attorney tom reedy and we're trying to set up a site visit and so I'll just you know you know I don't know if we rob it I mean your availability is probably important so if you want to set up a poll again or if I could and we could just I think they said any time right I think it's like any time for them so it's really a matter of when commissioners are able to make it and so okay so who am I this wants to go that'd be the first question petty me mad one okay Nate do you want to be there or do we need to yeah yeah I'd like to be there like to um you know I bet we we met with them uh it's you know Barry Roberts and Tom Reedy I don't know last week we can half ago about something else but I brought this up at the end of the meeting and you know I said you know we still want a structures report we'd like one on both buildings or at least the back one there's one on the front one uh they said yes and I said interior photographs exterior photographs and it sounds like they were willing to do that you know I'd also like to get in there and just look and you know okay yeah do you want to send me um some dates and times start we'll start with your schedule I mean I'm around I feel like Robin it's I think it'd be up to you and Hetty so whenever you're available um and Alan Alan what's good for you generally I mean I live so close by so um just during the the four four o'clock okay okay great we'll do that and then yeah I just want to say Hetty the public artwork the one of the artists or maybe two artists um you know some of those were painted fairly recently they they said that they they knew that when they painted them that there could always be a possibility that they wouldn't exist there but I guess they're willing to repaint some elsewhere or put them on another building that's what I've heard I think Tom mentioned at the hearing and it was mentioned again so it's something that we could follow up with great okay and so that's that um so agenda item four um I'm gonna hand over to Madeline because this touches on I think MHC issues it's um discussion of a proposed carriage house that the evergreens and a vote for a letter of support so I will meet myself and my camera and have Madeline take over the meeting okay um so Nate think that's Nate can you tell me a little bit more about this yeah the commission um I don't know you thought you emailed it out but you know the commission had seen it the last meeting and said it looked good um you know the evergreens or the music tickets museum is proposing to rebuild rebuild a carriage house at the evergreen site trying to mimic what was there had been torn down maybe in the mid 20th century and so yeah use it for classroom space and other you know um uh you know eventually um but you know they've really gone through the trouble of trying to document it with you know there's a few photographs and other things um you know we didn't have a necessarily a quorum at the last meeting we felt stronger if there would be at least four members that could vote you know uh in support of a letter to the massachusetts historical commission and so you know they have a deed restriction on the property or restriction on the property so mass historic will have to review it the local historic uh will have district will have to review it and it might even get you know pushed up to the national park service and so they wanted a letter from the commission in support of the work and you know i think that there were some questions the commission asked but really it was you know they've done a really fair amount of research on this and so there weren't too many questions i think most people were really you know really supportive of it okay um so do we have see do we have a how so what what are we reviewing where do i is there somebody presenting no it's already so this is just really just get the vote okay all right well so i would i would move can i move that we support the emily dickinson museum's proposals for the is it a reconstruction i think it's a historic reconstruction yeah yeah that's how they're calling it on at the evergreens and will write a letter of support to the mass historical commission forthwith i second that do we need a roll vote vote i'm not sure how that works we do i think are any discussion and then a roll call yes discussion first okay um are there any kind of comments or questions that you want to clarify or do we just feel strongly um in support of this letter strongly yeah okay all right we'll have a roll call then um see heady yes yes antonia yeah mckayla yes and i i i'm also yes so that's everybody great that's all we needed okay great and uh rob sorry i thought that a i did go through the youtube that you sent and i didn't see the presentation on the emily dickinson barn so yeah it's funny i was i'm sorry i'm unprepared right now to find uh to find it and you know what they shared and i asked them i don't think they ever sent it um i don't know what it was i'm not well i yeah i looked online at their designs so i'm in support and um madame will be the signatory for that letter right yeah yeah i was like madame you have to work on that letter okay okay great okay um next item public comment are there any members of the public who would like to con comment at this point in time please raise your electronic hand and you should be recognized no there's nobody here nope i think ilder just left okay uh seeing no public comment i move on to unanticipated items i think we're done with unanticipated items unless something's come up in the last hour well the only thing i was going to mention was a resident emailed to ask about the signs at west cemetery so a while ago we had worked on an interpretive sign for the mural and then maybe entry signs for the cemetery we had kind of tabled it until the town's wayfinding sign system was designed i think we had some designs you know and i i stopped working with commission we had a different planner and then uh he's since left with the town so i i was going to try to pick that up again but i just wanted to you know bring that to your attention that i think it's something we could um try to move forward with i thought we had kind of i you know identified a type of sign we wanted for the mural and so what we had been doing the past was printing these paper brochures for the mural we'd go through like hundreds in a summer i mean sometimes like 200 would go it would vanish in a week i don't know if they were actually being taken by tourists or used for other purposes but it became available at the bid um i was actually remembering when i first came on the commission that we had a discussion about using goats or sheep to right clear the some of the areas of the most historic graves well you know and that wasn't something we were able to act on but um i'm i'm all for this yeah i i got i have my own paper copy um but i think some other way of connecting information about the mural would be wonderful yeah were we looking at bringing those sign review of those signs back i think so yeah and um the development um 11 he's pleasant there the developer had agreed to either help with the cost of designing them or installing them and i was just going to revisit that excuse me but i think it could be a future agenda item and yeah i also like the idea of sheep in the cemetery and it was always expensive and there's liability and insurance issues but i mean i think it'd be i i don't know i think at some point it'd be nice to look into that again i know pat had just the other year and you know other communities are doing it so maybe maybe we'll you know we can make it work i know the public works department actually thought it was a good idea too because you know in the older section of the cemetery the stones are irregular and the spacing isn't adequate enough for a for a mower and so it actually is it's actually a lot of work to maintain it and so um yeah it's dangerous for the stones you know that they could get tamed yeah i know i i don't know why it's so it's so hard i actually looked at i looked at goats for my yard i have a for one section it's all it's like bitter sweet and invasive and i was like oh this isn't this is a few years ago it won't be too bad and i was actually surprised that the cost of it to rent a dozen goats and then it was my responsibility to provide them water and food three times a day and then move their fencing every few days and i said well you know i'm like well what is the owner what is the company doing basically they just drop them off and then it was yeah supporting them the rest of the time right but we can revisit that yeah i think so i'd like the signs in the goats or the sheep would be great to revisit yeah yeah okay anything else anybody okay good uh in that case we should need to reschedule to schedule our next meeting month of march how do people feel about the 11th yep for the 18th so that's for the 18th but the 11th would be better okay that's right you guys are you guys on spring break then yeah the 18th is spring break yeah yep you could have a real background are you going somewhere that i'm currently abroad so oh they abroad yeah yes where are you i'm in spain nice great madrid basalona madrid best best yeah so jealous really it's on my bucket list that's great it's really late there isn't it yeah it's super late thank you for joining us very much everybody so the 11th works for everybody yep yeah that could also work as the demolition hearing too if okay yeah i mean i read through the the you know the emergency demolition provisions you know the building commissioner has to deem it you know kind of in structural um deficiency that it becomes an emergency and it might be that although this house was damaged by fire it's not it doesn't reach the level of an emergency demolition and so then we'd have to be we could either just let it run out you know there's a constructive approval if we don't act or we could try to make the 11th the hearing so i yeah okay so um okay so the 11th at 6 30 we'll be our next meeting and we'll hopefully um pat can join us yeah great thanks rob inford everything thank you guys great to have you madeline yep thank you all bye right see you next month everybody thank you