 Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Let me welcome you to the United States Institute of Peace. We are very pleased To have you here to welcome the ambassador. It's it's an honor for us as the Institute of Peace to be able to host the Pakistani ambassador As he arrives to take on his new his new tasks We have had an opportunity to just have brief conversation with the ambassador just now For those of you who have not been to this building before welcome Institute of Peace was founded some 32 years ago as As as a place devoted to conflict resolution and we believe that peace is possible the piece is practical and practical and it is necessary for our security and the security of All of our allies and friends In the reason that we're about to talk about here today Our Asia Center Which is kind of sponsoring this session here today? And houses our Pakistan program our Asia's Center under Andrew Wilder who I'm sure is sitting here somewhere here and and And our Pakistan Center under Moid USF is It seeks to advance the Institute's goals in the broader Asia region Pakistan along with Afghanistan remains one of the center's two most important countries of interest and they are together the two of our largest Countries programs here at USIP Across the board one of USIP's strengths is its convening power Over the past four years the Pakistan program alone has organized over a hundred and ten discussions and public events with Pakistan experts including Prime Ministers ambassadors and we're very glad that my ambassador to have you as a back here For this event we've had the honor of hosting a number of Officials including Interior Ministry Chaudhary Nisar Ali Khan Finance Minister Ishaq Dar twice Prime Minister Noir Sharif in 2013 and 2015 The program derives its real strength from strong network of contacts and partners in Pakistan Where we have maintained a presence since 2013 the Institute partners with civil society organizations innovators scholars and policymakers To support local programs conduct research and analysis and convene local peace builders and key stakeholders as we have done here today Ambassador Chaudhary takes up his post during a very difficult time in relations between Pakistan and its neighbor Afghanistan Due to persistent tensions on the border ongoing violence by extremists on both sides and an enduring refugee crisis as The US reviews its Afghan strategy Pakistan will remain a critical player and we hope partner in addressing the deteriorating security situation and improving stability in the region I And others will be traveling to Pakistan and Afghanistan in the coming weeks and I look forward to the ambassador's perspective on these issues We hope this forum will produce a fruitful discussion on ongoing developments in regional relations as well as potential opportunities for the US and Pakistan to collaborate to help ensure a peaceful future for Afghanistan Ambassador Ayes Akhba Chaudhary is a professional here We're very pleased to have him here and member of the Foreign Service of Pakistan with 36 years of bilateral and multilateral experience He's Now the ambassador to the United States as you know since the 13th of March earlier He served as the foreign secretary of Pakistan from 27 December 2013 to 12 March 2017 prior to this he served as the Foreign Office spokesman always a challenging always a challenging position So We are very pleased today to host the ambassador and in his new capacity and I'm very pleased to turn over the Forum to the ambassador. He will be followed his remarks. We followed by a moderated discussion by Moide Joseph Yusuf who I've just described and ambassador welcome to the United States Thank you so much and Thank you also to the United States Institute of Peace Which has become a fairly known name with us and It is not a surprise that many of our leaders have come and spoken here That speaks of the prestige you enjoy as an institute in our eyes And The statistics that you gave which were very impressive clearly show that Institute of Peace Can serve and has served well as a as a venue for dialogue to help resolve and address conflicts all over the world, so thank you so much for your Hospitality this morning to me and to provide me opportunity to share our perspective on a topic which is Extremely important for my country and I believe also for your country but let me preface my talk which folks is on Afghanistan with a few observations that I have about About the perceptions here Which are prevailing Since my arrival, which is about two weeks What I've noticed is that the perceptions prevailing here are lagging behind the reality of today's Pakistan And the reality of today's Pakistan is moving as a much faster pace for the better Both on security domains and also in the economic fields On security domain, we have come a long way In first building a nationwide consensus against terrorism in any form in all its forms and manifestations and Clearing up vast territories in bordering Afghanistan which became home to many of those terrorists and Today the entire What we used to call as federally administered Administrative tribal areas have been cleared up and the proof of of that is that That 90% of the people who are displaced by the Taliban and the others have gone back to their home and and stitching together their normal lives We are now engaged in coming out the remaining terrorist who may have been Hiding in various civilian urban centers and that work has is also under under progress And all this has had a salutary effect on the economy of Pakistan and We can see our growth rates going up. Which is 4.7% this year We are told that it would be 5% next year. In fact, IMF has upgraded our Forecast And there is a optimism in the air and we are very pleased with this and I my sense is that And that there is a need for us to work harder to bring you all The Pakistan watchers up to speed on what's happening in Pakistan and how fast this changes is occurring A few words also about our relations with the United States, which again is a very important area for my country Our relations with the United States is of utmost importance Personally I have lived in this country before I've served in this mission, although only for one year before I Got pulled out to New York where My former boss wanted me to work with him and there I worked over six years and earlier I had done my masters in Tufts University. So it's a familiar country great people Resilient nation great values So I am very very pleased to be back to the United States and to a country With which our leadership and our people Attach immense importance now let me revert to the topic of the day which is on Afghanistan and of this Subject is extremely important for for my country it is important because there is a full consensus in Pakistan that peace in Afghanistan is an absolute imperative for Pakistan Time has shown and history has shown that whenever Afghanistan was unstable We suffered The instability invariably Flows across that border into Pakistan and therefore we have a full consensus that we need peace in Afghanistan And we would like to work with any and every effort that is aimed at bringing peace and stability in Afghanistan Unfortunately the situation in Afghanistan is not very encouraging the security situation is Is not good According to President Ashraf Ghani in an interview that he gave to a newspaper when he was visiting India 60 percent territory is under the control of Afghan national security forces 10 percent with the Taliban and 30 percent contested that is the words from the president of Afghanistan Maybe percentages might might have changed maybe a little different but we are talking of huge ungoverned spaces still and They can be magnet for militants of the world and that is something which is a source of work the other source of worry for us is that the Taliban and the You know Hakanis and many others who fled from Pakistan after the operations Have teamed up with many other groups and have branded themselves into different groups and one such group which has come up is Called Daesh or ISIL K some people call it referring to the Khurasan promise in the northeast Of Afghanistan So that is also a source of huge concern for us particularly because the Daesh concentration is in the provinces bordering Pakistan particularly Nangarhar and therefore it is extremely important worrying for us Because while we have established peace in our side of the Afghan border at huge cost to us We don't see a corresponding stability on the on the other side The the peace on our side didn't come easily it was at a huge cost When we were engaged in discussions between Pakistan Afghanistan and the United States and China There was a constant Desire and demand from the Afghans side and also from the US side That we should take action against the Taliban and the Hakanis who may be hiding in the Pakistani territory and we Finally is said fine. We had this worry that there would be a backlash and many of the Pakistani version of the Taliban like which we call them as TTP Who had gone across the border and made centuries inside Afghanistan would team up with these TTA and Because they share the ideology and we will have another war at our hand And so this was a concern at the back of our our mind having paid a huge price, you know 7,000 Soldiers and officers were lost in clearing up the tribal areas. No, it says it's for any military commander It's it's a huge huge Burgeon to carry when he won't when he meets the families of those soldiers He realizes that what it takes But our people because of the consensus that we had achieved a guest terrorism we were able to Carry everybody along and we we were able to establish that That piece nevertheless in deference to the wishes of the Afghan government and the and the and the United States We started squeezing space for the Taliban and the Hakanis We had cautioned also that once we do that the leverage for us on the Taliban would Would would go that much low or diminish because we will not be able to Nudge them towards reconciliation nevertheless, we still went ahead and started squeezing space and today They most of them have no space in Pakistan. They have fled Some of them went up the high mountains and we were able to deal with them there. Some of them went into the Afghanistan And some of them went into our urban centers. Well in the urban centers We are starting that operation as I indicated to you But those who went to Afghanistan they gave a Philip to the insurgency and you can see that The the instability actually has grown after that now. This is a situation which is not a very very happy occasion also on the military track we We could not make much success on the political track. We could not make my success of the situation is what it is before you So but let's explore both these options one by one to see where do we go forward? The military option we believe in Pakistan that there is no military solution if there was one Then it would have come by when the NATO forces were in their peak After 15 16 years of huge military and economic investments Mainly by the United States, but also by other NATO partners of United States There's not much to show for and that's a matter of I'm sure of concern to your country to my country to your taxpayers and to others and We believe that we should not Relay solely on the military option the The political track also had to be Nugget forward unfortunately on the political track The progress was not satisfactory We made some good progress we worked hard both Pakistan and United States And Afghanistan Had agreed that we should move forward the Reconciliation track Reconciliation would mean that the Taliban Of Afghanistan should sit together with the legitimate democratically elected government of Afghanistan and come out is some kind of political Solution some kind of negotiated peace And so we started making the strength of efforts during 2015 and on 7th of July 2015 I remember That the Taliban came face-to-face with the Afghan government That was a long night. It was Ramadan and it started after what they call as breakfast the Evening dinner and then it went right up to the into the seher or the morning This was the first face-to-face contact between the Taliban And the Hakanis and the Afghan government Hidr to for the Taliban never Recognized the Afghan government and so by sitting on that table that night they Sort of acknowledged It was a step forward from them That government which was across the table from them as the legitimate or the elected government of Afghanistan So we thought that that was a step forward and that night we were able to discuss while Pakistan United States and China watched as observers The Afghan government and the Taliban spoke their heart out to each other It was a difficult dialogue, but it was a good beginning and we were hoping to do another round on 31st July We're not 29th July just two days before The news broke out that the that Mullah Omar had died and this sort of Set a stir in the in the Taliban ranks and And the process got shelved Then we picked up the pieces and in December 2015 We formed what is called QCG what a little coordination group when we all four came together and agreed that let's Let's make a concerted effort once again for picking up the risk reconciliation track And we worked for another five months and five months and five meetings and we were able to put together a road map Agreed on the parameters within which this reconciliation will take place and within which the use of force will also happen and Unfortunately on 21 May Mullah Akhtar Mansour with whom the negotiations were going on Was was killed by a drone strike by the United States now that Again was a setback to the to the Reconciliation process because the the Taliban leadership became more evasive and and Would not come forward And also it started started with the with the Splintering of the Taliban many of their commanders because the new commander was not able to wheel that much control and some of them started fleeing and Just about that time the Daesh started to take roots in Afghanistan We we believe that while there is no military solution We have to have a track which is political in nature And Something which can Bring all the relevant players together to find a solution that brings peace in Afghanistan as I indicated you right in the in the beginning of my talk for us Peace is extremely important because Afghanistan is not peaceful. We continue to continue to suffer Then we have we go from here I Because that's important too. We are waiting for the United States new administration to announce its The outcome of its review. We understand the review is being carried out and any policy will be pronounced So we'll wait for that and based on that we would like to To engage with the United States Which we still believe is the is the main player which has invested huge stakes in Afghanistan's peace and we need to work together to To achieve peace and stability in Afghanistan I would You know Indicate five tracks in which I know I've in our view should be pursued Go forward first of course that we should not solely rely on the military solution Military military force is important But the wars are not an answer wars create more problems than they can solve and in this day and age We should have more faith in in in the in the skills Negotiations that can can resolve issues in fact your institutes and so many such forums Exactly prove the point that there are alternatives to to war and military solutions the second point that I would like to make is That the relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan are of crucial importance Both governments need to keep talking to each other not Not engage in any any hostility Unfortunately the present government in Afghanistan chose to commit Considerable hostile rhetoric against Pakistan but it was the policy of the of the of the present government in Pakistan not to respond and there's not one Hostile statement on record at any level of governance from from my country. We believe that Retrick is not a hostile rhetoric is not not the answer The logic sometimes given is that Pakistan is responsible for all the ills in Afghanistan Now this is an oversimplification of facts in our line in our view Afghanistan has myriad of problems from governance to corruption to economic stress to whatever and Because we treat Afghanistan as a sovereign independent country. We do not make any comment on the on the Afghan internal situation But to say that everything That is bad in Pakistan in Afghanistan is because of Pakistan in our view is a is is is not a correct Picture and not a correct attitude either We believe that the two governments need to talk they need to talk at all levels leadership to leadership political to political Diplomatic to diplomatic mail to mail and intel to intel I think all all approaches are required Simultaneously to work together to bring our two governments In a mode where they can they can coordinate with each other for the for the common good And the London meeting which happened recently Was a step I think in the right direction because it talked about a mechanism of this kind where the two can can begin to to work together The third track in our view is the border management we believe that this border which had remained ungoverned for centuries and There were people who were crossing in large numbers across the border Without any passport on any any documentation whatsoever for easement rights or for whatever reasons I think that has not helped the matter We think that an effectively managed border would would be good for Pakistan and would be good for Afghanistan Why I say that is because There is a complaint from Pakistan side that people bad guys come from Afghanistan side and create mischief on Pakistan side and terrorism on Pakistan side and go back and the Afghan side has a complaint that people from Pakistan side come to Afghanistan Create or make mischief in Afghanistan and go back So in order to interdict such cross-border movement of terrorists, it is extremely important that we have a managed border Between the two countries and we have started Unilaterally working on that and we do hope that Afghanistan government would come on board on that effort because That is that is important for them as much as it is important for my country This border management does not mean stopping or sealing the border It should not be mistaken for that because what we are trying to do is to Regulate the movement to those who are legitimate and bona fide travelers, but not open for those terrorists or people with With links to terrorism The fourth track I would indicate is the need for the refugees Afghan refugees to go back to their homes for 15 years billions of economic investment was made in Afghanistan, but never to the To to create conducive conditions for Afghanistan its own people to go back Over three million have lived in Pakistan for 37 years You know in Many countries and continents even 1 million refugees is a big issue and we have hosted for 37 years Over 3 million refugees and even now the Prime Minister of Pakistan believes that they should go back in honor and dignity And we will not push them, but we believe that some kind of Conducive conditions should be created in Afghanistan For for the return. I think it's a legitimate expectation given what's happening in the world I think everybody would understand that it's not an unfair expectation and the fifth one is Is also a most important one that how do we move the reconciliation forward? How do we move the negotiated peace? Forward there are different Groups in play different combinations. We have tri letters quadrilaterals six plus one Many new ones are also emerging new players regional players are also becoming active We are ready to work with that We think that QCG was a good forum It was not given a fair chance to to work But of course QCG is not Pakistan's baby alone We believe that there were three other players and if the three other players won't venue is needed For these people to come together and make a strenuous effort a genuine effort to To facilitate the peace at the end of the day It is it has to be Afghan government and the Afghan polity and Afghan Groups which have to come together Pakistan and Afghanistan and United States and China can only play a facilitative role and that's that's the role we envisage for ourselves It was an expectation from us that we will push Taliban and the Hakanis we are doing that We are we have done Head in that course But we believe that at the same time efforts have to be create to be made to create that conditions Which will facilitate a negotiated peace in Afghanistan So that United States which has also invested so much for so long in that country is also able to to live with a with a Piece of mind that it has stabilized Afghanistan before it left. So that's where I would Pause and And then we'll learn more from each other on the question answers. Thank you very much for your attention Thank you. I'm best each other for that very comprehensive Run down on Pakistan's position on Afghanistan I've actually not heard of the the five point plan before and I think to be very useful for for the audience here So what we'll do now is I'll ask a few questions We'll have a brief conversation and then I promise to open it up and leave more than enough time for all of you To have a chance to ask the ambassador Questions. I know he's a fan of tough questions. So don't hold back That's what being spokesman teaches you So let me begin by asking I think as I said you were very comprehensive in this But one thing as as somebody who watches this region and studies it and a number of others in the audience who do the same I'm somebody who struggles the line on both sides and you know the conversations in Pakistan and the US One thing I've always been troubled by is the different realities. I hear from both sides The conversations on the same topics if I'm in Islamabad and talking to responsible people What is presented seems to be very different than the view in this town and vice versa So I think the first question I'll ask you is The mistrust in this relationship. Is that a function of? Miscommunication is that you think a function of bad policies or is it really that both sides are not Understanding the others to a point of view of reality on the ground Thank you so much it is not unusual for People to have different perspectives of the same situation I look at this glass from this angle and the mr. Wilders looks at it from his angle So it's quite quite natural in my view plurality of views is always good And that's why you called me here to listen to this perspective. So that that's quite natural But I do not think that relations have any mistrust. I do not think so. I think maybe Some people may have plugged this line, but we have absolute open communications with the United States Through your embassy there and as well as through a stream of visitors from all walks of United States life They come they engage in candid conversations with us We have nothing to hide. In fact, we want to show them what and I'm keen and you would remember upstairs I I made that offer that we would like people to go and and see for themselves seeing is believing and only six months back Two of your esteemed senators were there and one of them actually came and wrote an op-ed on what he saw I think it is extremely important and that was the starting point that I was making that You know, we need to bridge that gap between the perception and the ground reality And I'm here to do that But I would want you to be my partners and come and see for yourself what has actually happened and how How closely we want to engage with the United States government? How closely we want to work together because we we saw that by working together we achieved results We achieved results. I don't want to enumerate those But the but the long struggle that we had Against terrorism ever since 9-11. I think is a testament of of that common work So let me ask you if I may follow up on this. Are you then suggesting that there is a There's a bit of a disconnect between The conversations that happen behind closed doors between officials and what the public narratives on both sides Maybe because I think there's little Disagreement on the fact that the narratives in both capitals about the other are not too pleasant And so is that then a disconnect and how do you bridge that? Well in my country the narrative about about the United States is is pretty good. It's positive Yes, there will be some people who would like to say what they want to say and I believe the same Holds true for the United States what I hear from many of the Intel coaches when they talk to me One-on-one I see very positive feedback And I also go around and and and I don't see yes, there'll be criticism Yes, there'll be certain areas on which we don't agree On which the US would probably want to lay more emphasis than Pakistan can or does But that doesn't mean Any kind of you know disconnect of sort It is possible that some of the lobbies could be at work to Give the impression of a disconnect between the what you said at at the government to government or G to G level and In the narrative which is in the in the out in the public But I believe that even there The writings of a few critical people do not really picture of the of the totality of the United States the relations between Pakistan the United States are multi-faceted have always been and And follow different strands and I see a lot of cooperation going on in so many of these these tracks So I am actually more optimistic than your question suggests I'm a pessimist by nature So I'll accept that before we begin But I'll come we'll just have a conversation first But I think what worries people perhaps in this town and you you're absolutely right in terms of the G to G You know you pick up any sort of polling or survey of the Pakistani people and the favorability rating of the US shows Up at as low as 9% at one time But on a good day about 15 18 20% for a partner that's been there for 70 years as you suggest That's an anomaly. I mean I wouldn't say that's an optimistic number. And so I think a lot of people wonder After all this partnership and some would argue a lot of assistance and and sort of you know work with Pakistan Why then this unfavorable kind of opinion of the country? I think This is a skewed. I'm not sure how accurate the polls are You have seen it yourself Very recently. So I think polls do not necessarily give the the most accurate picture of the society my my sense is That there's a lot That is perhaps not known to the people Okay, there's a lot of work that had gone into our fight together against the against the forces of terrorism it was not easy to To decimate Al-Qaeda today we can say that easily but in the early 2000s it was not an easy task and and six hundred and fifty operatives to catch them and eliminate them or you know So it was not an easy task. I think we did and then you know Pakistan never knew what is suicide bombing we did not know that Until all these people who came to fight Afghan jihad and then they came over to Pakistan towards Pakistan after 9 11 We actually ended up with it with that bag in our hand But we did not shy away from that We decided to fight that also of course in conjunction with your country But more so as a as a commitment to ourselves our leadership Four years three four years ago made a commitment to our own people that we would not allow any terrorists to remain in Pakistan and We would not allow any terrorists to use Pakistan soil to commit terrorism anywhere in the world So I think that commitment we are following through and I think it is Well in line with what the United States has also been wanting and saying and not only United States But also Afghanistan India and other countries in the region I think everybody would benefit from the approach that Pakistan Has followed and is continuing to follow and I think we have shown results We've shown results on the ground and you'll see probably much more in the coming coming months If I may let me switch a little bit to the regional puzzle if you will on Afghanistan and one of the conventional wisdoms Of course is that unless the region works together of an instance near and far neighbors Peace in Afghanistan will not ensue Pakistan of course is probably the most important one without a doubt But there are also other regional dynamics. You just mentioned, you know the six plus one Is the quadrilateral but one of the actors that has become much more active in This process is Russia. The Chinese were already part of the QCG But then and I believe Pakistan has also been part of the meetings that Moscow has hosted on Afghanistan One of them actually without Afghanistan As well recently What is Pakistan's vision of this regional peace because one of the questions I would have is Isn't this Increasingly looking like a minus US formula. I understand the US was invited this time did not go But for a country that's made so much investment, isn't there a fair question to ask whether this is now a parallel system? well Russia invited us for the trilateral meeting between Pakistan China and and Russia This was last December and we did go because we were invited And our question to the host at that time was that we're talking about Afghanistan. Where is Afghanistan? So in the joint statement, it was agreed To to invite Afghanistan to the next meeting whatever when it happened and that is actually how it's when the second meeting Afghanistan was there and I did not go into the second meeting. I went for the first meeting But in the second meeting there was a discussion to invite Central Asia and United States in the third meeting and I believe the third meeting is being scheduled for April for the month of April and I understand Central Asia would be there and We heard that United States has been invited, but not is not intending to to participate I think There as I indicated to you there's a Multiplicity of tracks because people are frustrated why Afghanistan is not stabilizing the whole region is suffering from that of course The biggest sufferers are the people of Afghanistan. They have suffered for for three generations I mean, it's not fair to them. They have suffered the most and they have suffered the agony and pain And therefore all our sympathies should be should it should be to that fact So that's why people are desperately trying to find out some kind of formula that would that would work if nothing was so every country has is trying to Come up with his own recipes. I told you what my preference is But of course, I don't Want to make any comment on the efforts that are being made by many other countries actually including Russia On on I promise I will come to you not to worry. I will just give me a couple more minutes On Pakistan of Anistar you talked about The relationship being very important and rightly pointed out that both countries should continue to work together You did explain sort of the refugee situation and also the border, but if I may ask that From another if you look at the glass from the other side It may actually you write that there haven't been hostile statements But perhaps these two actions in terms of the refugees and the way the policy Is being implemented and the border may look like hostile actions if you're sitting in Afghanistan or perhaps somewhere else So if the argument is rightly that both sides have to work together no matter what? Then could you explain how Pakistan's recent actions on the refugees and on the border Help the situation because at the end of the day, it's only pushed the Kabul government to perhaps be even more hostile Well for border management, we do expect that There would be a corresponding action on the other side Not only by Afghan national security forces. There are limits of Capacity and other areas but also we expect the US also to to contribute towards that But that But we have never held it against them What we are doing is that we are building those posts on all the areas which were frequently crossed over and We are investing all this effort on our side of the the border and with our own money And when Jenna Nicholson was there our army chief took him and made him fly over the Over the border and showed him that look the protection of this border is a common responsibility But look there are all posts on our side What were the other side and who will build them and why why shouldn't those be built because if you have complained as people go from here and and and Terrorism then then I think you see all the more reason that you have an interest in that as far as refugees is concerned I think we The kind of hospitality we have shown no country in the world has shown Look at the numbers And Even now the policy is not to push them not to push them and we will not push them but we do want UNHCR and Even United States and others to help of runs the government to create those conditions after all these people need to go back and I remember that in the beginning of the Ashraf Ghani government there were indications that perhaps many of these people will get land rights when they go back And whatever incentives is for the Afghan government to work out But whatever incentives can be can be created for the pull factor Then we don't have to depend on the push factor because we don't want to depend on the push factor So pull factors is extremely important But the status quo and saying that no Pakistan is hosted them for 37 years 3 million keep doing like that status quo is the best answer I'm sorry. It's not we need to find a way forward on that. I think that's fair I would just point out that as we speak there is actually a real humanitarian crisis on the other side of the border In Afghanistan because of the refugees going back. So even if the policy is maybe there is better coordination that that could take place to avoid a Humanitarian catastrophe. Let me ask two more questions and then I'll open up and I think you might want to open up because I am But come in the end. I'm gonna ask you the toughest ones now and I don't believe these The first one is I didn't hear the word India for the most part in your in your talk But of course India remains, you know, one of the key elements of the regional peace and Pakistan's relationship with India We all know Are very troubled especially now What I wanted to push you on is the the argument that Pakistan has gone after all militant groups and is not going to let this all be used I think it's You know on on the anti-india traditionally anti-india groups that is not an accurate statement I mean visibly one can see the presence of groups that Ultimately hurt Pakistan more than anybody else But the jamaatudavas of the world the elitist of the world the leaders are there and free and known and seen How how does one reconcile the idea that Pakistan is sincerely going after all groups or you know has a plan to do that While it's it's clear that one part of it at least to this point is not has not been affected Thank you Yes, I didn't bring India into the talk because that was not I'm grateful for that on the topic Not to say that India is also using Afghan soil for certain ends But we I deliberately left that out Our approach to india towards india is very clear, especially this government We want Peaceful cooperative good neighborly relations with india And our offer stands when prime minister Modi Was inaugurated our prime minister was very much there and later on prime minister Modi came to his home in Lahore I think we This desire on the part of Pakistan to have good relations with india Is very much manifest in every way So much so that it is also included in the in the charter or the manifesto of the ruling party We it is unfortunate that every time both countries have tried to Work together and come together for a dialogue. Some terrorist incident has happened If that the terrorists are nobody's friend neither that of india nor Pakistan so Whenever india suspends the dialogue the terrorists that will sit back and wait for next time when these two countries will come together And then they'll come they come to life again. Now we I believe that if the If the if the indians and the pakistanis keep talking Then the objectives of the terrorists would be frustrated much more much better Because if you suspend the dialogue you do exactly what these terrorists want you to do Not to have dialogue. So that is why we have repeatedly stressed the importance of dialogue, but we don't Say that of course dialogue cannot happen Unless both sides are ready and since india is not ready and has made it clear that it is not We will wait for a time when india is ready to to to have dialogue with us We will they will find us ready. We believe that The answer to any intractable problem house ever intractable It may be it still lies on sitting across the table and and talking so that approach we will maintain as for the terrorist group I have already I think indicated to you and I think seeing is believing because You would discover it for yourself The leadership of Pakistan made a commitment to the people of Pakistan that we will not allow any Terrorists to remain on our soil any And we will not allow anyone to use our soil to plan terrorism anywhere Anywhere in the world. I think that is a commitment that is unto ourselves It's not a favor to any country. It's a commitment that we have given to ourselves and we are well on our course In in in doing that and anyone found to be committing terrorism Or using our soil to plan terrorism Will be taken to task and we are well on our course On that strategy and hopefully You know you are here and I'm here and these people are here and we'll see where it goes So let me open up. I'm about to get booze now. I know So let me start from here. We'll go around the room and if there's time we'll we'll come back for a conversation The lady in the front And there'll be mics. They'll come to you. Please wait because this is also being webcast live Marisa lino. Thank you ambassador for your remarks an important aspect of what you have discussed Is the us pakistan relationship? And I wonder since the 20th of january when the new administration can mean How you would describe the relationship? How how it has launched and how you see it going forward? well it has been our long-standing policy to Deal with every elected government of the united states In good faith and in all earnest and that's what we will do We are already in touch with the new administration Our initial contacts are very encouraging and positive and we would hope that That once we once the whole government is in place Uh, I I understand some positions are yet to be filled in in department of state and and and other departments Once that it done that is done. We would definitely like to engage in a very serious dialogue because we think there's a lot of business to be to be Conducted between pakistan and united states Gentleman here Good morning, mr. Ambassador. I wish to congratulate you on your position. Thank you, sir. My name is abul ali saraj I'm a nephew of his majesty king. I'm on a lot of afghanistan And also the president of the national coalition for dialogue with the tribes of afghanistan Your excellency Although I may have difference of opinion of what you stated this morning The one point that I totally agree with you sir that the situation between afghanistan and pakistan Is not going to be solved militarily and I also strongly believe that the governments Come and governments go And they have not been able to reach A solution between our two nations and such We both have lost a number of our citizens at the hands of the terrorists because of the disagreements We have a lot of at odd, you know But I I've come to the conclusion said that you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar So my recommendation I think is to get rid of the vinegar and bring the honey But the honey part of it sir has to does not have to include the government Does not have to include the military? I think it is time that the peoples of afghanistan and pakistan representatives of the people I am not a member of the afghan government. I don't speak for the afghan government, but I'm the voice Of the people of afghanistan. I'm the voice of the tribes of afghanistan as you may know What family I belong to And how much responsibility I have Do you think sir it is possible the largest The group in pakistan or the pinjabis and on the afghan side of the pashtuns, but we also have other Tribes in afghanistan and also you have others on your side Can we not get the representatives forget about the taliban sir? There is no such a thing as who's which taliban we talking about But i'm looking for a solution between our people You have been good enough to host our our population for a lot of years. I totally I thank you for that But I think it is time that our people got together and sat around the table I had discussed this with governor aragzai in peshawas sometime ago. Do you think it is possible To make sure that our people get together instead of governments and let them come with a solution and let them tell our governments On what they wish nobody's asking the people So this is my question to you sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. First of all Congratulations on such proud lineage that you have I cannot agree more with the point that you made I think at the end of the day It is the people of the two countries who are the ultimate custodian of relations between them It is the people of the two countries who have to live with each other who have lived with each other for centuries And will continue to live with with each other the governments come and go But the people have to live on and I cannot agree more with you. Of course Government to government relations are also important, but it should be the job of the government to To spur to increase to augment the people to people contacts I know that some people to people contacts are happening. Some efforts are being made And my sense is that we need to do much more on that. I am fully on board with your suggestions, sir Gentlemen here and I'll keep Mr. Ambassador Pakistan is the only please introduce yourself. Sorry. My name is asan. I'm at the work with rabba times My question is in regards to the pakistan state sponsored persecution of ahmadi muslims And pakistan is the only country that prohibits the aslamic call to prayer the aslamic reading of assalamu alaikum And prohibits Ahmadis from reading the Quran And it's considered a criminal act so people can be persecuted under the anti terror laws For just doing that So how do you justify the use of anti terror laws against the religious minority Ahmadiyya muslims? Thank you for your question, but I do not agree with you that there is any state sponsorship of such activity far from that All citizens of pakistan Are equal in their rights under the constitution Any misguided people Take law into their hands against any community including ahmadiya community They must not do them and the government tries and will continue to take every step in that direction All pakistanis are worthy of equal respect And and that is the position that we have taken and we will continue to pursue that line Till we achieve our our results in a in full and to your satisfaction and to the satisfaction of Other such minority groups Could I if I may follow up and I'll come to you sir on minority rights because this is one of the questions that's that's Been raised frequently And in the past of course, there have been problems that we know of is there a Different approach by the current government Is there a different vision going forward in the long run to ensure that some of these things Even if these miscreants are acting on their own lone wolves or however we define them How does one look at pakistan 10 15 20 years from now as far as minority rights? We look at pakistan to be a pluralistic democratic tolerant pakistan and The present government is is very sensitive to this question That is why the prime minister Makes it a point And so do the other You know leaders in the cabinet rank to attend the hindu events because he was there in hundu holi to share their happiness to give a Rounded message to everybody that all citizens of pakistan regardless of their faith Or creed or kala Are equal citizens of pakistan and worthy of equal respect and equal rights? I think that's the direction we are taking and similarly for the christians A lot of effort is going on to To make sure that they are safe, but not only is they are safe But they thrive and prosper in pakistan as proud pakistanis. So that's the direction second. We have taken a number of institutional steps To reduce the space for the miscreants We have signed on to a large number of human rights instruments For example in the last five years, we have signed on to icc pr ic e acr Cat which is against torture And and several others and we have presented ourselves before the universal periodic review upr in united nations human rights council in january in 2008 And then again in 2012 and this time again. We had 80 recommendations. We have implemented most of them We got the 66 recommendations second time we implemented most of them because we believe that It is in our own interests to do so. These are very important members of the pakistani polity and society And I think that is exactly what we want to do and we will continue this march until the The objective which I stated Is achieved Thank you. Thank you for Your presentation today. It's been very good. Doug Brooks with the afghan american chamber of commerce My question is there's a number of groups on both sides of the border Commercial groups that would love to open up the relations between the countries As you know, the the afghans are using the pakistan port less and they probably should Because of all the restrictions on trade on at the border and so on. Is there anything the pakistan government is doing or could do To improve this and this would certainly be a I think a major way to improve the relations between the countries absolutely, I think Under international law, pakistan is bound to give access to a landlocked afghanistan And landlocked afghanistan and whichever has to do the ports of pakistan and we are honoring that commitment not today But for seven decades and we will continue to do that bulk of afghan Commodities have always come from that and you know, sometimes in the past we have suffered hugely for that because they the Imports for afghanistan come without any customs duties and the similar import. Let's say a refrigerator comes in It gets a certain amount of customs duty on that So the while the afghan refrigerator is traveling across the length of the country Before it crosses the border. There are people who would unload it right there because they can make more money right there So that had encouraged Smuggling and brought a lot of economic injury to pakistan, but that has not Determined us from honoring that commitment. We will still continue to do that. Yes We we can make it better. We should make it better. This is a commitment. We have never Renished on we will still like to do it and I remember that when president shabgani came to pakistan in November 2014 and after that The finance minister was there. We had a 44 point formula. We are still committed to that unfortunately afghanistan government Needs some more time to To start that dialogue, but we are ready to to talk about it You being a member of the chamber, of course, you would understand the importance of it most of the most of the transit countries Have much more stringent regimes For access to the landlocked countries to prevent injury to their own own We have a far more liberal and I can say empirically That we have a far more liberal Liberal regime, but what we can do is a lot a lot more can be done on the customs point For example customs tariff duties can be picked up, you know right there So that there is no incentive for the smugglers to use that That avenue to drop their goods in pakistan and make some money on it But I can't agree more with you. This is an area which is of significant importance and we would like to continue with that Let's say if I if you allow me to follow up On this the there's a broader piece to this As you know the afghanistan pakistan when you rightly pointed out, but there has been tension In the region when it comes to overland route access to afghanistan through pakistan to india and vice versa And then afghanistan blocking pakistan's access to central asia perhaps as a quid pro core Otherwise and this has been reported widely What is the dynamic there and if if if that is caught up in the pakistan india relationship Then are we actually looking at this as a permanent state of affairs unless the india pakistan Relationship normalizes or because ultimately afghanistan is is the biggest loser in this They're the ones who have to gain and you know as we talk about peace and economic development Isn't that in pakistan's interest as well then well Our obligation under international law is to give access to landlocked states to the ports of pakistan That's true And I believe tajikistan is also landlocked. That's correct And tajikistan also has as much right to the ports as Afghanistan is It is for the afghan government to deny them right or give them that right It's for them if they don't want them to come through Through afghanistan to ports of pakistan. It's it's for them to decide but for us it's open As far as access by land route is consistent. It's a different ballgame. It is different because even Our own bilateral trade with afghan with india which has huge potential Has suffered because of that now as a gesture goodwill gesture to afghanistan We have allowed their trucks to go to to afghanistan to to india But we cannot possibly one day open Millions of afghan indian trucks hitting our roads and we are not prepared for that I think it has to be part of a regime for which we need to prepare And for niche and for that regime to be prepared. We need a sane tended Civilized dialogue between the two governments and then it can be very much. We it's not that we don't see what you see We do but I think the ground realities do not allow that to happen Otherwise we'll be more keen than than anybody else That's a question that Hannah white central agents to thank you sir for sharing your perspectives The conversation so far has touched on solutions for the here and now Looking to the future To the next generation. What can we do as far as education to ensure peace between afghanistan and pakistan? I think the best way is to look for win-win solutions. I think Zero some strategies don't really Produce any winners Even if somebody produces is somebody thinks that he's a winner It actually and the end loses the world that we have come to see in the globalized phase And I hope it stays that way is that there is an interdependence That we we all depend on each other for one thing or the other and I think we all gain much more And we've seen that these some Of parts is greater than the then and then the you know Totality of the parts. So I think this is important message in our That we should have faith in the future. We should have faith in win-win solutions There are always ways out there and I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example in case of pakistan You know the whole of asia There is a theme Which is sweeping across asia which is called connectivity Now that connectivity Because asia was least integrated And therefore that connectivity has caught up And even pakistan china economic corridor is a manifestation of that and now Right from the from day one it was made clear to everybody That this would not be for people of pakistan and western china alone It has to serve the whole region and the bigger picture Which means that and all central asians should be able to benefit from that and in fact from that kashua There are two roads going to to tajikistan and one road going to kyrgyzstan and then on to kazakhstan and others So I think all this speaks good for everybody and from china pakistan economic corridor I've said it publicly and I continue to maintain the first beneficiary perhaps would be Afghanistan because the first if you move up go other the first Nearest point would be kandhar itself. So I think we we should look for Win-win options. We should be optimistic. We should be hopeful for a future And we should not give up this theory of interdependence which arose during the globalization phase I felt sorry for a retired international health care consultant I know from a I've spent a year in azar brajana I know from a previous previous presentation at the institute that I share with the afghan people will love for Turkish comedy on television My question is ambassador You mentioned china could you Maybe expand on that in terms of the role in the mosco meetings and their economic involvement in afghanistan and pakistan Certainly china is a country which is And a very important player in asia and It so happened that In 2013 when the president government took office, which was in june And the new government in china took office, which was that of president she There was a I don't know whether it was congruent sort of a coincidence or it it just happened That president she decided to Focus more on the western china which was less developed because bulk of the economic development was on the eastern china And as you know each of the port city there Export something like 15 to 20 billion dollars worth of exports. So the entire Eastern coast was highly industrialized whereas the western aid part of china was so this was a discrepancy Which was being created within the chinese society. So they decided to Shift their eyes towards this right about that time we in pakistan The president government, which is which has a very strong Traction for economic agenda Thought of Linking up our board of port, which was we were developing go other to western china And I think that's how that was the emergence of the Of the idea But it was it was becoming very clear to us that That we want it to be for benefit of the whole region and not just these two countries And that is why we recently held an eco summit where all the fence heads of states of central Asian states And iran and turkey came because we wanted to send out a very clear message That this whole project is is something for for everybody now. How do you do that? bulk of the concentration now is on energy energy because we were running energy shortages and I think by next year will probably be Surplus in energy and we would need that surplus for another reason that I I'll indicate to you We're now moving into the phase of industrial cooperation. So that means along those corridors There'll be economic zones which will be and we have been approached by several leading economies including Leading economies from Europe and elsewhere to come and invest in those those zones We will need that surplus energy for that and Pakistan would of course be happy if united states also come along comes along And and because we need to build stakes In peace enough in in in our region whatever works and nothing works better than trade and economic investment They are the biggest, you know stakeholders for for peace In our and we need that peace. So we Our relationship with china is seen in that that context. Of course, it's a relationship based on mutual respect And 40 years ago. I remember that we served as a bridge between your country and china And we believe that we can still continue to serve as that bridge of goodwill between Between united states and china That's why we want to have good relations with both countries with china and good relations with united states And my presence here after my that assignment Is a is a You know Indication of the importance that that government attaches to our relations with your country Hello, my name is habiba Habiba ashna and i am a student I was at a Fuji in pakistan So I would like to thank the united states and united nations for their help in pakistan Because I think mostly we were helped by the united states and the united nations when we left there Secondly, um, mr. Ambassador So far whatever I have heard it actually sounds really good But the reality on the ground is completely different The wall that was built around in The border areas right now I think there is being fence is being built in the border area And as you said that it was for the security reasons if you look at it in january 5 Um, molaro oof one of the former detainees who was killed in Um in afghanistan five pakistani militants were killed there. He was killed by drones Not just that but a lot of evidence a lot of the is and taliban heads were killed in pakistan a lot of Army from the army side border side of the pakistan army keeps actually Firing rockets firing and they keep killing civilians on the afghan side So it seems like the threat is inside pakistan and not afghanistan But yet, um afghans are being blamed for it. So when are we going to see those words turned into actions? Thank you so much. I think that's precisely the Perceptions which have been germinated and they are so out of touch with the reality I don't know when were you lost in pakistan? You need to visit that again Uh, I thank you for thanking the united states and united nations For your life in pakistan But at this end of the day it was the pakistani's land that you were living on And even bulk of the the afghan leadership have lived And earned their livelihood and studied in the institutions of pakistan It doesn't matter even if you don't recognize it. I can still live with it But what I would like you to do is to correct your perspectives There is no wall being built on the border. It was the border posts that was that were being based You have a post where you have an immigration counter. You have a customs Area and you have a visitors restroom and that is what has been built And we will we are well within right to do that because that's how civilized borders are managed And we expect afghan side also to build similar kind of facilities We in fact we offered to build for them if they want Similar kind of facilities. These are not walls. These are natural barriers which are placed to regulate the The flow fencing. We will do but it's a huge border 2600 kilometers. It's not going to be easy We will we will do as much as we can perhaps it will take years Our border with india is totally fenced I believe there are many other borders which are which are which are fenced, but we We are doing it out of interest that It is it is our our shared interest when you say that trouble is in pakistan and trouble is not in afghanistan Then you haven't seen afghanistan. You won't be here. You would be actually there actually we And you need to visit pakistan. That's what i'm saying that if you call remain a victim of that propaganda Which is churned out from Kabul. It won't solve the problem. You are barking the wrong tree You need to come to grips with what's what's happening actually on ground and then you would you would see See for yourself. I can't say anything more than than than that. Thank you Yes Hi, Muhammad Ali heather Congratulations on your recent appointment and wishing you a Long and successful tenure You were kind enough to enumerate the diplomatic tracks On the afghan policy and hopefully enhance cooperation between the two governments Will yield some results which will Lead to a better regional security Solution, but since this is your first appearance in public as the ambassador, could you speak? Or could you enumerate similar strategy for the us and Pakistan diploma diplomatic track Especially in light of The lessening of you the cutting of usa id And greater economic cooperation and perhaps greater cultural exchanges between the two Countries. Thank you All right As i indicated to you it is a multifaceted relationship that we have with the united states Within the executive branch, of course, we deal with department of state Department of defense department of energy department of agriculture department of education and what have you because we need we want to deal and we do with all the avenues of the Of cooperation between the two countries But united states is a very interesting country in that sense And i'm very happy to be in washington because washington is is certainly different from many other capitals of the world Because it's not just the executive branch that you deal with you deal with also The legislative branch which is the congress because congress has By virtue of your constitution You know So much role to play in terms of sanctioning money which will Make the process go and then you have the think tank community which is very vibrant and and and which shapes up the public opinion And which advises the the government So that engagement is also equally important apart from our diplomatic engagement with we have a fantastic Dialogue between the two have always had On a scale of zero to ten I would say that for for eight to nine areas We are actually cooperating with each other and one to two areas We have differences on which we are trying to to to work on so i am very optimistic about About this relationship it would stay strong and I think it will get stronger in the years to come Master i know this wasn't a part of the topic but since you mentioned One or two areas of difference and and the others of agreement One of the areas of difference of course is partly on afghanistan But the other one that we heard a lot about and saw a lot written about in the past year or two was the nuclear element And and conversations about pakistan's nuclear program Would you like to enlighten the audience on where that stands and is is there some element of convergence on on the position of the two sides The rational for pakistan's nuclear capability is very simple It is only for deterrence To deter aggression against pakistan These are not weapons for battle These are only weapons for deterrence or weapons for peace as somebody called them We have no ambition beyond that Our program will remain characterized by credible minimum deterrence And we have absolutely no intention Beyond this particular Objectives yes, there are some people who like to project this as as something which happened in the last one year Some people got together and tried to create us You know a big issue out of nothing But that's not an issue between if you want to see even with the previous administration I want to show you the dialogue that we have with the department of state Department and within that department of arms control you see the joint statement and you would know You know we are cooperating pakistan's united states are cooperating in nuclear safety And touch wood we have You know Fabulous record of nuclear safety You know we've been running power plants for over 40 years not a single accident anywhere And I hope it stays that way because we are working very hard on nuclear safety nuclear security again Now terrorism threat is fairly subsided in pakistan We are pretty cool, but even when it was at the peak Nobody ever came close to or even made any rhetoric against nuclear program of pakistan So so much has been spent on on the nuclear security of pakistan and we participated with the united states In the nuclear security summit process All through And we have created a center of excellence for our we have invested hugely into nuclear security Another area that we have worked hard on is export controls Export controls we just do not wish to import or export anything which is of dual use and that's why we've invested heavily on that We are our lists are now aligned with the lists of all export control regimes all including nsc including nuclear supply group as well as mtcr and of course the the the other two as well now we The fourth area we have worked hard on is command and control And it is sort of command and control is is centralized So that there is no delegation of authority anywhere and it is Strictly under the national command authority, which is chaired by the prime minister and therefore that important area is very important So for us this remains and and and you know We just had a two-day conference in karnegi. Yeah, you know nuclear conference Scores of panels nobody talked about pakistan's nuclear program because everybody knows that it is well within its own limits There are talks about others But not about pakistan I I told you I was a pessimist. So let me Okay, let's take that question and then I'll end on the provocative note that I want to please Masood ahmadi a student and a member of afghan green trend Thanks for the presentation Mr. Ambassador Everyone knows that esama bin laden has been found and killed in pakistan while you are denying his presence for over a decade in pakistan molama Has been found and dead in pakistan's while you are telling afghan and americans That how pakistan can find a torbent molas amongst of a millions of torbent afghans It's uh molaman sur has been killed in pakistan It's believed you're harboring hakani network lashkara taiba and the other extremist groups instead of pakisans And uh, do you think you can influence afghanistan to mass murder and kill and these groups are responsible for the mass Murder or torturing of afghan and american civilians and the region Why don't you try another policy? Do you think the time for us to buy your denial narrative is over? Let's call a sped a sped and have a frank discussion. Thank you. Thank you Maybe I I can't beat that one. So maybe we will end with that No, no, that's fine. I it's not the first time I uh, we we know that you have been fed this And I was unfortunate and that's precisely the point I was making That the systematic nurturing of hatred in the people of afghanistan Was not a wise investment in the people of afghanistan. I think You'd need to it's not us denying you need to come out of this Who was the soma bin lad? How was he made? What was he doing in afghanistan and after torad war a bombing? Why did he come to pakistan? We don't need him We wanted him dead yesterday And we are happy that he got killed, but we are unhappy the way he got killed pakistan should have been the one We should have been taken into confidence. So there are perspectives you see the glass from this I see the glass from this side as far as mullah omer His son and his brother went to zabul and exhumed the grave to make sure that he was he never left afghanistan And and the presidential palace fed bbc a wrong news that he died in karachi in a hospital two years ago You see this is the kind of propaganda which spreads hatred, which is wrong It is not a wise investment And that is why i'm saying you have to come out of that if you come out of that you will find that Things will be much better this whole Retrick oh people going there and killing of afghans by the hundreds and thousands I don't think that is how it is happening We have no as I have said that we have no Anyone including taliban hakanis who commit violence anywhere Violence is not a commodity with which you can buy anything today and we would not want that that to happen Thank you so much sir. Okay. I will not try what I was going to On a nicer note By first of all thanking you for taking the time and speaking to us We're actually fortunate to host you and your predecessor For your first sort of event public Event at at a think tank at in washington. So thank you for giving us this opportunity Let me just end by then asking you in your two or three years or however long you stay here What is your benchmark for success? How do you walk away as a satisfied ambassador at the end of two or three years? Well, I would be one happy man if our relations with united states Are further deepened And we continue to cooperate in many areas that we have been And also I am able to open new areas of cooperation. You know, we have not focused There was somebody who's who spoke about the health cooperation in health You know, these are the areas on which I think Pakistan and Pakistani diaspora has invested heavily We have 18,000 Pakistani doctors registered with just one organization who are working in united states I think these are the people who are investing in this relationship We need to diversify the areas of cooperation and if I am able to do that, I'll be one happy man Thank you very much for joining us and please join me