 Hello. Good morning. Good morning. All right. It looks like we're auto recording. So that's cool and now I need a couple things. I'm gonna get our agenda out and get ourselves set up here, and I'm sure we'll start probably like three minutes, three minutes after or so. I'm gonna put y'all on mute while I violently type or put me on mute rather. One sec. All right. Hopefully that's the right link and not one of my other 45 million Google Doc things that I have open right now. All right, so that's in the chat. Y'all can put your names on that in the attendee section. That would be lovely just so loving the shower look, hippie. I I dig it. That's exactly how I wear my towel as well. So I'm not alone. I had to go to the store and get the conditioner because I would just wait till the lockdown's over, but I had this big dread that was about this long on the back of my, so it was time. All right, it's 33 right now. I see we've got hippie, Eeyore, Carolyn, Amy, Karen. I think that's, hold on, let me just make sure. Yeah, let's do it. All right. And then, all right, so everybody's got the agenda. All right, I went ahead and did a launch contributor growth sub-project issue, and there is a lot on there and the method behind the madness here, and let me share my screen as well. So, if you have a tab, where are you at? Here you are. Share. It's got a lot on here, obviously, but each bullet sort of represents what I think, you know, in here and just like know from various sources within the CNCF community, whether it's TOC, whatever. Thinking that each one of these will probably be some kind of work stream, and then what would be done for us to launch. So obviously, many things like a read me, who's owning much stream, just some very basic conceptual foundational things right now that we need to figure out so that we can really get moving. So, before I start, do folks want to do intros? Not sure if everybody knows each other. Let's just do intros, just to be safe. Hippie, you go first. I'm looking at, you know, give a brief intro about yourself and why you're here and why you're interested in doing this work. Hippie Hackland, I've been doing open source stuff for a while, and I'm really fascinated by our community's ability to scale and to be inclusive. And I think that what we do here would be really useful in other organizations. And so, particularly the key factor seems to be growing new people into leadership. And so, the strategy that we have for helping everybody start from what is this and what, and to being here, please come join. That's why I'm here. Awesome. Carolyn, I think you were interested most in this working group. Tell the group what's up with you and who you are. Sure. So, I'm interested in two things. One is I like to make things explicit and help support existing contributors and maintainers in understanding how they can make their lives easier by communicating outward to the community about what their processes, how they do things so that there's not a lot of awkward weirdness of like, how do I explain to people that what they did is just weird. And then also protecting themselves and making what they're doing sustainable. And then on the flip side, I like to do a lot of outreach and mentoring with new contributors and trying to make it a really good process to kind of get them working up that contribution ladder and actually defining the ladder so you don't just need to like happen to know someone in order to be a cool person who turns into a maintainer. These kind of things like near and dear my heart like every product I'm on, I kind of do this for every project so I'd love to help with this. Yeah. And then Karen. Hey, so I'm actually on the same team as Caroline. I am a community manager for multiple open source projects. So part of this experience is also just for me to learn because I feel like, you know, the bigger ecosystem has a lot more experienced people who have been doing with stuff and so I'm here to learn and then also I think in a sense bubble up the stuff from all of my teams up to kind of see like what all the different concerns are out there. Yeah. And how many of your how many of your projects are in CNCF just out of curiosity. Oh, um, there's Helm Brigade, Virtual Hubelet, SMI just joined. And then there's like other projects from like sister teams, Kata just joined as well. So, yeah. Cool. I was curious. Yeah, I know. I haven't been speaking out. Good question. And the reason why I ask is it's good to have folks like you even like just join the call because we get to hear what some of the other projects are doing that, like, you know, if we individually don't work with them. So I think your experience is definitely critical here for us, especially in a bootstrap stage. Eeyore and Amy. Hey, we're here from CNCF. Eeyore actually has much more salient things to say this morning about like some of the contributor growth stuff. So I'll let him go. Um, I don't have so much stuff to say here, but as Amy mentioned, we both work at CNCF, specifically myself. I'm used to be the community as contributor for a while and used to work with the community as a contributor experience for a while. But besides that, also help CNCF with our contributor initiatives, mentor initiatives and all the related stuff. And you are awesome. Thanks so much for helping us. This is going to be awesome. We do have for folks that were not on the last contributor strategy meeting Eeyore and other folks discussed like what repos we own, why we own them, etc. We kind of came to this conclusion that the CNCF contributor strategy repo, which is like our SIG meta repo will have things about our processes, maybe our guidance, things along those lines. And then we also have the CNCF contribute repo as well, folks that thought that contributors might see that more. So we should have a lot of documentation for the contributors and maintainers and that repo. So sort of like the division of a policy repo and a procedural repo if you want to put it that way. So just wanted to talk about some of that housekeeping stuff first and foremost in case you were like, what's going on? So we're taking care of a lot of that. We've also been working hard on GitHub management and admin related stuff. Eeyore, Steven, Jared, so many others, Josh to get us all hooked up with some kind of workflow and process and review process and things along those lines for stuff that we're putting inside of our repos. The one thing we do want to make sure of is that we are not like blatantly putting our employers stuff in as guidance, like meaning as the word, if it's in as like as a resource, that's one thing. But if it's in his guidance and we're like saying XYZ company says that you should do it this way. We should just make sure that our guidance is a little bit more what sort of looking for not, you know, non bias or, you know, not, you know, geared towards a company but geared towards us as a group. I think just that we want to be generating and synthesizing our recommendations that are for the CNCF, as opposed to just wholesale adopting one thing from from a company it should be unique to what our own ecosystem and community. Like that's part of it too. Exactly. So just I'm going to shoot I'm going to ask some questions really quick to the crew so if for the folks that have read this issue. Is there anything anyone of these bullets that calls out to you and just remember we got to keep focused that's another priority here because our crew is going to one expand quickly, but to also expand and scope so we just want to make sure that we're actually going to do something right. So is there any bullets on here that really call out to you as far as like I'm definitely able capable interested in working on something there. I mean, for me I'm mostly just said in the contributor ladder and then things like the contributor guide or like the maintainers guide. All right. And then anybody else and by the way, it's, if you don't own anything right now or don't claim anything that's not a big deal I just want to get us going on some of these. Anybody else. I'm happy to help Carolyn on that stuff. One thing that I kind of a meta thing is automation around this and and taking the automation and including infrastructure all the way down to hopefully a base level on Kubernetes. I know that within the kates community we rely really heavily on the kates and for working group, an amazing group of people, but all of that info is very heavily. And so we tend to buy modeling, a Google way, kind of let the world know that that's maybe the only way. I think it would be really cool if we at the CNCF level, we're able to provide things like prow that CNCF that I owe and integrations for all of the CNCF hosted projects, including the way that we automate our community aspects, but maybe put a little of effort of trying to, I mean, I don't know this is just thought that's what I'd love to be to help with is the automation. Currently at this quarter, one of my goals is to bring up proud at CNCF that I owe because the CNCF kates performance repo is where vendors submit their test results, and we want to automate that and say yes you did pass all of these tests, but it's not appropriate for that to go under kates pride at kates that I owe. So it's a good opportunity to start doing that new thing maybe on multiple multi vendors or at least a non non Google even. We might want to go incredibly useful. Yeah, we might want to spin up an entire working group for that. I don't know if it fits into the scope of this particular working group but I think it does all under. Can you hear me I'm sorry was I mute. Sorry. Okay, I'm sorry. So let's talk offline about about spinning that into either its own working group or something where the scope is a little bit wider, I think. For this one I think we should really start foundationally I feel like prow is like a couple steps ahead of what we should try to accomplish at first year. I don't know what anybody else's thoughts are but I definitely think it's it's relevant important and should probably be its own working group. What are some other things. I think some of the guidance and ideas that we come out with for how people can structure their product projects in certain ways will help shape some of the automation actions that whatever we come up with will do by default or have options So I think one process may feed into the next step a lot because we may not do things exactly like Kate's proud as we may decide that we want something a little different or whatever. I have one question if you don't mind. One thing that I've struggled with with my projects is like where manage projects and things like that and I was curious Paris if you had an idea of where that fits in. In various things or just where to get help with that. Is this the right thing for that kind of thing. Like for example, help with using project boards versus other stuff that's out there. I definitely think that could be a part of this project management. It's the only problem that I think with the only thing that I worry about it is we've we've flipped with the word fluttered. I mean, you can also tell you a little bit about this. I feel like we have gotten stuck in Kubernetes land with project management because no one wants to have us say you have to use one tool. It ends up just being this like great bike shed about how to do project management. So I guess if we if we give items, then we should maybe give like options and things like that and not necessarily like one rule of law but definitely I completely agree. I mean, it's one of the ways that we're Wild Wild West still you or do you have contacts there as well. And I can just add here. So the final and we just decided and within the Kubernetes world that everybody can do their project management as they prefer. So every every granular group, every seek and every some context on that they do as they prefer. Like as we do with the sea contributor experience, we have the sea contributor experience boards and we have the dedicated sessions. Working grouping for example, they have their own process and all this stuff. So that that that's how it works in the final and because we we've tried multiple times to bootstrap the unified community wide project management process. And we've just failed multiple times with them with the different attempts and with the different adults. Yeah, I was thinking I don't want to derail. I was just more than you mentioned automation. And for example, GitHub has project boards, but there's no automation for like a new issue is added. There's no good way to automatically have it added to your project board. And those were something that like, if there's bots or automations we're making that can do. Plugable individual things like that that just work with random default tools. It doesn't have to be a like everyone must do this but like, we've got a building block in our proud toolkit. Like, that would be cool but I know that's not really related. So that's what I was getting at. I think that it could be easier now from the automation standpoint comparing that to that where we were like two or three years ago because of the GitHub actions, like two or three years ago getting GitHub actions that didn't exist. And as far as I remember, even the project boards didn't exist. So these days we can we can automate it probably more efficiently. I don't want to say easier, but somehow easier with the GitHub actions, at least we have all the all the available tools, all the possible available tools directly from GitHub, and we don't need to develop something. So probably it's good, but probably it's good on the scale of the community project probably with the current CNCF size. I mean the CNCF GitHub size, we don't need something extremely powerful and extremely complicated as proud these days, but it can be rather. I'd be totally interested, I guess. I put you down here for like, maybe project management guidance. Obviously this can be like a P1 or even two if you want, is that okay with you? Yeah, yeah, because I like where the PM hat for the projects I'm on so like, whether or not that's my jam, it's what I do. Cool. Another issue with the PM stuff that we had that we haven't had enough manpower. So it just was like enough time consuming. So if you can allocate and if you have all the necessary experience with that, it's really awesome because humans and time of will, it was one of the biggest issues again in the past. So it's easier to define and develop the guidelines and find a program, but sometimes it's more complicated just to maintain it in the same way as it could be. Yeah, yeah, I get that. And then let's see, so we've heard from Caroline, Karen, or is there anything on this list? I mean, and it's okay if you're like, no, I'm just here to hang out. Is there anything on this list that you wanted to either take work on or anything or kick off for that matter? I'd like to remind us that I'm working on the contributor repo design and restructure. And like, I'd like to share like their new portion of it probably tomorrow, tomorrow on Wednesday. It's basically the same content, but a bit differently structured easily more easily readable. And after that, I'd like us to also to review it and provide more details on what we're missing here. So the current content is available here at the repo. You can take a look there right now. The things that I'm doing is just restructuring it and making it more easily consumable. But if we miss something there, so please open an issue there. Let me know or yeah, basically please open an issue and let me know so we can incorporate it there. Awesome. And then you are as far as that list to the K-dev that's a part of that restructure as well. I mean not K-dev, I'm sorry, I'm thinking of Kubernetes. The dev mailing lists. Say it again, please. The dev mailing lists work is a part of that restructure as well. Yeah, yeah, because right now they are there, but they're not so visible. So now you have to go to the projects and also structure could be better. So that's that's what I'd like to make better right now. Okay, cool. All right, this is sort of like a meta thing, which is good. All right. And then I think about everybody and then I would mean I'm interested in all of it. So obviously I'll just take what's take what's ever left over and important to us. Anybody else want to claim anything or kick off anything from this list. And we have the AMAs or the interviews stuff. Yep. So this, I'm this right here with this intention. What we want to do with the contributor strategy meeting. So we meet biweekly. So, you know, twice a month depending on where calendars fall. And we're take, we're going to take one of those meetings, we have a dedicated time for at least the last 30 minutes of the meeting and invite all maintainers if they so choose to come for an AMA. And they can ask us pretty much anything they want. So they can ask us about their specific contributor growth related problem issue opportunity, whatever, you know, whatever they want to talk about. So I want to know from this crew one, is that a good idea to should we create a separate time. And the reason why I have been putting on, you know, putting it on to the contributor strategy meetings is because of meeting fatigue. But if we need some kind of separate AMA, like I'm semi open to hearing, hearing thoughts on that. So what are y'all's general consensus thoughts discussion around this idea of a contributor slash maintainer AMA to get help. Right away. Good, bad and different. Do you think you're. I heard Karen and hippie. How much we need that meeting for ourselves because we did pigment as like a time that works for us at the moment. I have a feeling that the majority of our time that we need together is going to be in our sub projects. And so this will be a great use for the larger. Community to be able to connect with the community because like. That's probably important for us actually helping people as opposed to just doing every power work. So I'm all for it. Okay. And the other deal is we're creating a maintainer circle as well, which obviously will produce its own meetings and things like that. So my method, all my methodology to the madness here is like, okay, let's at least get people heard immediately. In case there's like any project out there that's like, really, you know, needing something immediately and then they can tap into like maintainer circle and we can tap into maintain our circle as far as delivering the educational content that we need. So interestingly, I'm not sure that actually like, you know, separate meetings out is going to be like, you know, super valuable for this. So maybe being able to say the contributor growth Q&A is also maintainer circle or am I just totally misreading this. I think you're misreading this maintainer circle will be much more in depth. And we're talking about 1000 maintainers. They want to do many circles they want to talk about burnout they want camaraderie. So maintainer circle will be focused and that's where we can also deliver webinars and our presentations and things like that. I'm concerned that if we did that then we wouldn't have a meeting period. Meaning like we wouldn't be able to meet about the stuff like the ivory tower stuff. Oh, sorry. So maintainer circle. It's important to have it a little bit separate from the wider community, because maintainers often everything you do is transparent to the point where it's really difficult to have frank conversations where you can be vulnerable, and feedback from other people who don't need something from you, but can be there to support you. And so I think it's important to carve out that space for them. And instead of trying to make it something where it's open to like a wider group of people were like the random public for example, the helm users may show up to where the home maintainers are trying to get support from other maintainers because it'll be very difficult to talk about things that are important to them when the people who need their help and are asking for things from them are going to be listening in if that makes sense. So it kind of does need to be a really separate space, in my opinion. All right, so I'm just taking some notes on this issue. I mean we pick on how this is the big one, but you know. Any other comments about the AMA. And then speaking of like webinars and presentations and stuff like that. I wanted to see if I'm going to create a separate issue for this one in particular, but I wanted to see if we could start crowdsourcing the work that we've already done. So like I know Carol and I know so many of us have done like talks on like, you know how to contribute, what you know what it means to be a maintainer, stuff like that. And let's just start crowdsourcing it. And then what we can do is we can do a review period and essentially deliver on some of this and say that that this is kind of like a service, like saying hey we can come to your project and review either these workshops trainings or we can just stand them up on our own. But we have such a plethora of information amongst this career right now that it would be a shame for it to for it to just like hang out there in the ether. So I'll create a separate issue for it. And then what we can do is just add some of our resources. Is that cool with y'all. All right, yeah and then same with you hippie if you've got like any automation talks or like anything or or even how about this even other people that you've seen give talks. That's also, you know, cool too, especially if they could probably come in and do it here they don't necessarily need to be a part of our crew. A lot of people would probably think that's cool. So we can also solicit folks. All right. And then we've got recruiting contributors this is part of this is kind of like a recruiting playbook almost that I was thinking about where we talk about how they recruit where they recruit how they communicate that this seems to be a really, really hot topic amongst TOC members at least and GB at least that's why I hear from Matt Klein. So I'll just sacrifice myself and put myself there but if anybody else wants to work on that that sort of falls in line with you know some of the other stuff we're doing with the like ladder and templates and things like that but it's not very direct. You know the goal here is to get contributors and maintainers to be more direct about what they need. Anybody else interested in that. Yes. That was your book when you're done. Thanks. All right. And then this sort of falls in this one right here on the net this next one here role handle of role handbook templates building roles outside of the usual contributor ladder. So this is kind of like, maybe I would say P one to two, I would actually say it's P one, meaning like let's do the contributor ladder work for work first, because that's sort of the really key roles there, which are like maintainer approvers, things like that. Does anybody else. This is called anybody. Once works that. Can you explain a little bit when you say building roles outside of the usual contributor ladder. What kind of roles are you thinking in your head because when I hear I may be thinking something different. So in Kubernetes we've got I think six teams now. And each one of those teams is different than the contributor ladder ones the release team. So obviously Karen did the communications manager role and that had that produced a rollbook. This is a way to get people to think about succession and also all morning. So we also have the contributor summit events team they've got the lead they've got a content person that we also have an API review committee and each one of those people in the committee has a role. So like they review API is and stuff like that to come in for certain things, you know, each one does anyway. And then they're advising guidance is like a whole as a committee. Things like that, that people really only because I think in open source we really only say a contributor is a member or a contributor is a reviewer. Like, I feel like I can hear that a lot right. But this is kind of like this borders that like code non code contributor not contributor but like we're actually making them roles. So, um, that's that can be set off at, like I said, at, you know, after we have some momentum from the contributor ladder though. I think this is really cool. I just, yeah, we have to be after the other stuff. Yeah, yeah, the contributor ladder is like a P zero meaning it's like you need that in order to grow your other areas. I feel like that's like you have to describe your your core area before you can describe your other areas in my opinion or put me on with that. Okay. I'll help to. If you need it, you already have two people. No, we have experience with this Karen. So you have to do with us. Sorry that case that takes care of everything we have in the queue thus far. I listed what's done, but what is done for this issue, but does anybody else have anything now that we've talked about this for like 20 minutes. Is there anything that's glaringly like I cannot believe it's not on this list related to remember related to contributor growth. We've got a governance sub project going we've got some other thing like maybe even have this automation sub project with could be going anything that really relates to that. I have one thing that I know is going to come up, especially for people in the Kubernetes group, which is when they're looking for help as our SIG ramps up is if we could just have something somewhere that is written down that says, come here for come to us for these things and go to Kubernetes contributor experience for these things. Um, because I was just going to ask you Paris. You know what I mean, or just it's just going to clear it may be nice just to like go like maybe in like in the inside of the read me. Yeah, yeah, let's just say I'm a real quick upfront. Because as we try to drive some people to our, our SIG and the output of our SIG, I think that'll be a question for that larger community. Yeah. It'll be like the treaties or anything. Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. Anybody else think that anything's missing. So in this issue will close and will be officially launched once we have something a little bit more descriptive in the read me. We already have actually we already know what I'm going to edit this. We do know who is owning what now. The first thing is that we accomplish and send a note to the TOC and the maintainer group about our AMA, which is a little bit meta meta about us. So let's talk a little bit about this. What's the first thing we accomplish look like and the definition of done for things. This does not and should necessarily not be answered now unless you know folks immediately have some things that come to their head. So we just burst and start digging into and start digging into some of this stuff. I think we're going to see what done looks like maybe in like the next week to two weeks. And anybody have any initial thoughts on this. And do you think that we can deliver something in the timeframe meaning something, whatever that something is, do we feel like we could deliver that. Let's say within the next three to four months. Yes. Yeah. I mean there's always going to be a lot of like iterative work on what should be in there and obviously if I think we're talking the standard months, we can do it. Yeah. Okay, cool. I mean, I hope we can get one of our P zeros. I don't know which one. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, let's actually we did we identified some of the P one. So I feel like this one is P zero and then this one's probably P zero. And then if we're, I'm just doing little teeny notes here. I'll, I'll make them better later. Okay. All right. So it looks so we've got the templates are just our crowdsourced what we already have. They have as a collective body and the contributor ladder building as P zeros is that in agreement with the crew with what we should be working on first. Looks great. All right. All right, and then we do all of this. I think we can honestly like I'm and that's why I put it in the issue on I wouldn't have put it in here unless I think we can accomplish it and I really like with this crew and like just the plethora of experience that we have with the contributor strategy grew. I'm really feeling positive. Oh no, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm saying I can't wait to see all because it'll be amazing. It'll be great to see all this in one place for people as a resource. All right, let's try. And then I do have some conversation we can you want to start on some P zero conversations just get right rolling into it. Or no. All right. Let's talk about the templates because this is one of the ones where I don't think we actually need to start from scratch this is another area where I feel like there's a ton of prior art and let me show you what I mean I'm actually going to stop sharing and share another screen. Hold on. Where is it here is cool. Here's one. Here we go. Share. So this is a template for writing contributor guides based on research of like 40 different projects. So this is a really cool I think resource for us talks about just how to get started and like what the template is which is right here. And what we can do is we can review things like this and we can either make changes to it because not yet. It's okay with PRs. We can also turn it into our own thing meaning we can like med lib some cloud native words in here and make it like, you know, again PR that into ours as a contributing markdown template. What do y'all think about that. This is something that we can review. Let me put it on our issue too. And then there is another. There's another resource as well. Let me stop sharing here again. And it's called the good docs project. And they have a, they have stuff related to contributors. So here's my issue. Here it is. All right, comment. And then I'm going to share my clean again. So here's the two links in the issue. So y'all can take a look at those. My, my idea here is we can collect, like I said, collect, let's collect a bunch of stuff that already exists. And then analyze it. Does anybody know other, other good resources off the top of their head or that they can include here. I'd like to look at those first to understand the differences between some of the, I don't have like generic templates, but I've seen some ones that I found really helpful on other projects. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's the exact thing we should do include anything that you think looked really good. I think that was impressive. Karen, you too, like if you've seen stuff when you're out and about that's really impressive. Nafya's has stuff that's probably not cloud native. I think the 40, when I did, when I did some digging, I think the 40 projects that she analyzed. I think one of them might have been Kubernetes, but I don't think so. That's what I'm saying. It might not necessarily, some of the stuff might not be relevant for us. Some of it might. So let's take a look and we can do an analysis. We can either pick up an issue or meaning an issue that talks about what's good and bad or we can do like a Google doc if you don't are some other kind of collaborative doc if you don't want it to be public yet. Yeah, I think it may be a little sensitive to speak about other people's stuff where they wouldn't see it because I think it'd be kind of hurtful. So Carolyn, do you want to like kick off the doc of some. I would love it. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm open with whatever you want to use totally cool. Oh, it would be Google Docs. And yeah, we can start on that. And then I think what our definition of done would probably look like here is maybe a nice, you know, template repo kind of like this. I mean, obviously larger than this, but, you know, contributor that, you know, templates and then in here have some folder that's like, you know, contributing templates and contribute ladder templates and, you know, dev guide templates, contributor guide templates, stuff like that. So that's kind of what I'm envisioning here for our repo anyway, so people can come in and get what they need as far as documentation for contributors quickly and, you know, without worry. All right. So I mean that's really it for today I thought we were going to take a whole hour and do that but I think it sounds like everybody knows kind of what they want to do why they want to do it and how they want to do it. So I think our next contrib strat meeting is, is it this Thursday or next Thursday. It is next Thursday. Yes, the 23rd. So questions, concerns, comments about this I feel like we've got a lot of work to do sounds like everybody's ready to do it, which is awesome. Anything else and for us to get 15 minutes of our life back with technically 10 because Amy likes to cut the zoom meetings five minutes. I like that. I appreciate that. Y'all my hair needs a cut like seriously. Yeah, I keep messing with my hair today y'all like just like, I just want to like put it in a ponytail and just chop and I don't care what it looks like but at least it gets it like a flip. And you are adding a I'm adding that link to the issue right now. Yeah. Oh my let me see your hair Amy. This one this one is more correct the latest one is more correct. Amy your hair looks so great today. I'll hop on more video calls with like you know the being able to like you know. Yeah, there you go over the shoulder looks good. What looks like from the back just push it all forwards. At this point I'm just, oh my God. By the way if you're watching the recording this is an overmeaning. This is overmeaning topics. This is not a part of the official cncf. We're making recommendations on how to look good on a webcam. I think we should. Like build up your confidence to turn on video on zoom. Yeah. Or I know it's like, if you if your hair can look as bad as Paris you can join the meeting. When in doubt look like a potato just turn on the potato. I know. We should do you know we should inspire we should inspire we should like be the group that we want all the groups to be and like do with like silly hats and costumes if you care or like we're Carolyn showing over plushies like. Oh yeah. Oh my God. Yeah we should be the we should be the inspiration that we need like. Yeah. Well, Yeah, call it at least call the recording for the sake of the recordings purpose. Oh, The thing about these is like they will just record like no matter like what is like you know as soon as you come in like it will record which is nice because you never have to be able to turn on the recording but then it's challenging on the other It's like someone shares their screen and shares chat or whatever then you got to go back in and edit it out. Yeah. Yeah, you're preaching to that YouTube's inquire over here. You're too kind to be editing it out. We have put so many things up on YouTube before they were like, whoops. Trust me. We've gotten some of those requests we and we still do the hey oh my gosh I totally forgot that I shared my important work information in like at like you know three minutes and 33 seconds and what do I do. Oh my God. All right, y'all, it's been swell. I'll definitely see you on the 23rd and I'm sure we're all going to be chatting and slack. Oh, also, let's try really, really, really hard to work on the mailing list. I'm so bad at it, but I want you I mean I'm trying and I'm saying I'm putting that out into the ether because I want to be better at this so hard on it. Do we need to make one? Do we just need to talk more on it? Just talk more just I guess talk about our next steps on there if especially if they're not an issues like because we I think we're just like me personally I've built this culture around slack and like talking and slack and like making decisions and slack and like I'm constantly going nope I need to take this elsewhere like so yeah keep me honest that's number one say Paris this needs to go on an issue or the mailing list please like I'm not going to take any like issue with that I'm going to be like you're right and same with anybody on the call like if you see any of us like talking and slack which is awesome like we want to communicate real time and slack but if there's like something that like we're making a decision about or like the guidance there of let's talk about that. I actually have a mailing list checklist and it like sits in front of me and if I do anything that hits one of those checklists, even if I set it in slack I have to copy and paste it and put it on a mailing list. You know what. First no apologies that's what happens but it's got to go out to me less than two. Right. Yeah but tell me about this checklist because that's honestly that's a good part about like contributor strategy I think that we should give to to SIGs I mean not SIGs to projects which is like how are you communicating your decisions and like what are you talking about on the mailing list. Should I mail it to you on the mailing list? Yeah. I'll do it. I'll send you my checklist on the mailing list. Yeah. Send me the mailing list decision checklist. Yeah. Like that would be that would be like a hilarious like meme workflow. Should this be on the mailing list? Oh my god my life's a meme. All right. Have a good day. See you on Slack. Keep me honest. Have a nice day. Bye. Bye all. Bye.