 I'm here at the Dubai World Trade Center with Ambassador Terry Kramer, who is the head of the U.S. delegation for this all-important Wicked 12 event. Ambassador Kramer, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Sarah. Good to be here. There's been a lot of discussion so far around the term operating agency versus recognized operating agency. Could you explain what your interpretation of the difference is and why it matters? You know, this issue is probably the most fundamental one right now. And what gets, what's critical about this issue, it gets to the fundamental heart of what we're talking about here. The charter of the conference and the ITU has been focused on telecom services. And Haman and Tori, our Secretary General, has done a terrific job carving out a vision and making it clear what we should be accomplishing. What's happened in the conference is a variety of proposals that come in from other nations that get into the Internet, that look at Internet governance and other issues. And how does that manifest itself? It manifests itself in the discussion on ROA versus OA. ROA, recognized operating agencies, looks at traditional providers of public telecommunication services. It doesn't include Internet players, private networks, doesn't include government networks. It stays pure to the focus of the conference. OA opens the door to a lot of other organizations. And the minute you open the door to the other organizations, you have to be looking at what does that do? What are the downside consequences of all this? You start including Internet players, you open the door to people reviewing content. And fundamentally, we believe it's not appropriate to look at content, that people in the spirit of a free and open Internet should be able to look at what they want to and communicate in the way they want to. And that vibrancy of expression and economic opportunity creates opportunities globally. And all of this, again, hinges on this initial conversation on ROA versus OA. OK. The U.S. has one of the most multi-stakeholder delegations at this conference. You've got members from government, from civil society, from the private sector. Do you think this is the future of multilateral negotiations like this? And why do you think it's important? So our delegation has been very, very helpful because we've got members of U.S. government, as you mentioned, from our FCC, Commerce Department, State Department, etc. We have members of industry from the telecom and Internet sectors and also civil society. And what they've allowed us to do is to be thinking about the future. You know, what has worked? What are our learnings? How should things progress in the future? And from that process of getting lots and lots of views, you get good answers. It takes time. It takes outreach to incorporate a variety of views, but you get better outcomes. And if you look at the Internet space, it is set and right for multi-stakeholder governance. It works best when you have a variety of people that have got technical expertise. They have an ability to be agile on how they look at issues. They're global in nature. They just aren't governments by themselves, but they're members of civil society and industry, etc. That that dynamic nature of multi-stakeholder organizations is fit for purpose for the Internet in ensuring success. And we should always keep reminding ourselves here, what are we trying to achieve? What we want to achieve here is continued success of the telecom and Internet sectors. More than anything else, this will be our legacy in terms of opening up access to information for societies, creating economic growth, etc. And that to us should be the anchor point of all the work that we're doing. Friday's plenary session ended with presentation of a new document which caused a certain amount of consternation in the room. What's your take on that text? Does it bring anything new? Was it helpful in driving discussions forward and making some progress on the real sticking points? Yes, so, you know, candidly on that proposal that hasn't been formalized yet in terms of being accepted by the ITU for formal review. It'll be interesting to see how that's handled. We were surprised and disappointed candidly about what was included there because it fundamentally includes the Internet. It creates an open door for review of content and potential censorship there. It will create a chilling environment for the Internet. You know, we have to again look at this conference and say are we taking decisions as global leaders that can advance success? Or are we creating uncertainty? Are we creating risks? Are we creating concerns? And then we're all going to have to look at ourselves a few years from now and say what did we do? Did we help things out or did we make more of a problem? So that proposal to us was concerning. We're encouraged that it hasn't been formally accepted for review and we'll see what happens tomorrow. Okay, the weekend has seen a very heavy schedule of meetings for most delegations. We effectively, after today, only have four more working days to go. Are you confident that we'll eventually find common ground? Well, it's a great question, you know, because right now it feels a bit like we're at an impasse because there are philosophical differences. What I think is something for our Secretary General and our conference chair, Mohamed al-Ghanim, to consider. And they, again, have been great leaders here. They're looking in the future. They're trying to drive us to success. They're doing the right balance of listening to people along with trying to take action. What I think we need to be thinking about is what does success look like? What does success look like is let's go back to the charter of what the conference was all about telecom. Let's all agree that advancing international telecom services, advancing the networks that support broadband services, those are big wins for us to get. Transparency in mobile roaming is a big issue people talk about everywhere. Let's really focus on all these things that matter most. And if there are other issues on the Internet, let's find an acceptable fora to discuss those. But let's not pollute this conference. Let's not hijack this conference. We want to come out of this thing with success. These sectors that we talk about are globally interconnected ones. If we come out of this conference and nobody agrees, we've sent a terrible signal globally about where these sectors are going to go and that hurts everybody. It doesn't hurt any one country. It hurts everybody. So I think to get a proposal and it may need to be obviously from the chairman himself that says let's really say what success looks like in the telecom sector to us would be a terrific outcome. Ambassador Cramer, thank you very much for your time. Sarah, thank you. Good to be here.