 Good morning. I'm Dr. Siobhan McDonald from the Crawford School of Public Policy and I'm co-chairing today's session on renewal in the Pacific beyond COVID challenges, charting new horizons. Today I'm joining you from Canberra, the land of the Ngunnawal and Nambri people. Our Australian audience joins us from many different parts of the country, and today we acknowledge and celebrate the first Australians on whose traditional lands each of us meet. I pay my respects to elders past and present, and I'd like to thank you for joining us for our panel discussion today. Across the Pacific we've seen the region face challenges not only of extremely high rates per capita of COVID in some countries including Fiji, French Polynesia and growing numbers of cases in PNG, Timor-Leste and Guam. All countries across the Pacific have restricted travel and many have seen marked downturns in their economies as a result. Developing responses to COVID were occurring in 2020 at the same time that many countries were impacted by tropical cyclone Harold. The second category five cyclone to hit the western Pacific in the space of five years. So in this panel we will reflect on these challenges that the experience of living with these challenges and what they've meant in the Pacific, how are specific countries working to keep their people safe and to create economic pathways for renewal. How can Australia help in this space and how have we been helping? Can we set a new agenda for regionalism and how can we move forward on climate change? These and other important regional issues are going to frame our discussions today. So I'd like to introduce our eminent speakers to you today. We have Senator Zed Sousselja, the Minister for International Development and the Pacific. Her Excellency, Hanari Patana, the High Commissioner for Samoa. His Excellency, Robert Soussilo, High Commissioner for the Solomon Islands, and His Excellency, Samson Faray, High Commissioner for Vanuatu. So I'd like to begin and open up our first question to the panel. I'd like to ask each of our High Commissioners, because I don't think this gets enough coverage in Australia, to really reflect on what their country's experience has been like during this period of COVID-19. Perhaps each of them could really just spend three minutes describing that experience to us as an opening. Perhaps, Hanari, if you could go first. Yes. Well, thank you very much, Siobhan. I'm absolutely delighted to be able to be one of the participants this morning with the Honorable Minister as the government speaker. May I also add my own comments in paying my respect to the traditional leaders of the land of Nagarambri people, both present, past and emerging. All I would say was one of the first to actually lock down. And that was because we were just coming out of a measles epidemic in late 2009 when the COVID first came on. And so the immediate response was just to lock down and contain the whatever was going to start coming in. I think we already had a first case that had actually entered Samoa and that triggered off a lot of safety mechanisms. So what did it mean? You know, like everybody else, normal, the normal life that you live, you know, day to day, suddenly changed in terms of orders that were proclamations about what you can do, where you can go. But the immediate, well, both medium to long term effect from then was of course the contraction of the economy, you know, the decline in GDP growth at the same time, increasing budget deficit. Luckily, the key essential services were not affected because the government decided to focus on that. It gave us houses, especially, and immediately they went into a national emergency committee to coordinate everything that was had to be coordinated. And what I think the outcome of this is looking at, you know, from the duration of this and the mutating virus still spells a lot of unpredictability for all of the small island countries, especially a small open island and price takers. And right now with the global impact of the pandemic, nobody knows how this is going to pan out. But, you know, dead stress is probably one of those things we did have a stimulus package that we actually introduced in the first budget, 2019-2020. I mean, in this budget, but unfortunately we also had elections and the political uncertainty for about four months and the outcome of which now we will see some by elections. So it'll just add to the cost. And I think the real effect of that stimulus package is highly questionable now because of all of these factors coming into play. And on the positive side for Samo, Samo is probably one of the only one of the countries that is covered free at present because we, excuse me, we locked down and we locked down hard. And we continue to do that. And because of that, we also would like to thank our development partners who came to the rescue with the vaccines and the rollout has been pretty good. At present, we're hitting a rate of close to 80% for the first jab and close to 50% for the second jab. And so if that momentum is carried, we will probably be good for the rest before the end of the year. And I think we can then probably be much more hopeful in terms of the travel bubble. And so the health sector continues to be a primary focus in that. So I think our most immediate concern and need would be to look at that vaccine rollout. I mean, we're now talking in New Zealand, in Australia and New Zealand of boosters. When we come to that, I think all of us, I am countries of the Pacific are still vulnerable and would certainly look to where we can continue to have that assistance because that is the key to everything else. If there are other areas that we would like to see Australia as sort of in terms of economic recovery to assist us there and then Australia has to be commended for a lot of the assistance that went into not just COVID but the economic recovery by way of trusting its economic aid program, particularly in terms of financial assistance and also targeting special sectors that had been prioritized by government with respect to the business sector running alongside that stimulus package that the government has also put out. And I think we would certainly look to two things because these are the two sectors that have been affected. That's agriculture and tourism. And we would certainly look to first of all Australia, seeing to the implementation of the pace of plus. And of course, the continuation of the labor mobility schemes. So I will stop there for and give the opportunity to my other colleagues. Thank you. Thank you. There's a lot really in there for range of issues. So I'll pass now to his Excellency Robert Cecilio. Thank you. Thank you. I like in the COVID-19 pandemic to a big dark cloud that has descended on our countries and to protect our people and our weak health systems. We like someone who also closed our borders and imposed conditions via declarations of state of emergencies and lockdowns to slow the spread and contain the virus. As a result, I think many local businesses have to close down or scale down their operations and that's had a negative effect on the national economy. And of course, high unemployment rates. And with many in the formal sector laid off days a sharp increase now in poverty rates with many families finding difficult to make ends meet under the current circumstances. But like every black cloud COVID-19, I think has some silver linings. Without incomes, I think a lot of families across the region have taken to subsistence farming to stay alive. In the case of Solomon Islands, a lot of people went back to their home islands and villages to sustain themselves. So it is basically our rural people who have helped sustain our economy when we found ourselves in economic strife. As a result, there are now more investments in the cocoa and coconut industries and cover. And we are now exporting cassava to Australia, something we didn't do in the past. And hopefully by the end of this year, if the commercial importation of cover kicks off, then we look forward to have some of cover also landing here in the Australian market. So we can only look to ourselves and our resources to create a new economic future for our peoples. But despite closing our land, sea and air borders, I think we continue to work very closely with our development partners supporting our efforts to contain the virus. And I think it has brought Solomon Islands and Australia closer than ever. Australia has been of great assistance with vaccines. It has so far sent 1 million COVID vaccine doses and pledged another 14 million over the next year. And it has also committed a record aid to the region of $1.44 billion in 2020 and 2021. And recently has also doubled the number of Pacific workers in Australia under the Pacific Labor scheme and the seasonal worker program bringing in an extra 12,500 workers. So these are testimonies or cases, you know, this silver lining, and I think I have to acknowledge this and thank you Minister Z and thank you Australia. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for those comments. And I'll now pass to his Excellency Samson Faray. Good morning. Good morning. Long live everyone. Hello. I'm joining also my colleagues here today online to, first of all, acknowledge the traditional landowners of the land that I am on today. I'd like to pay my respect to past, present and future leaders. And I also pay my respect to the traditional owners of the various lands that you are on today. Good morning to Honorable Minister who is with us today. We're very delighted to have you online today with us and I'd also like to thank ANU for organizing this and giving me the opportunity to say a few words. I think a lot of similar issues that have already been raised by my good colleague from Samoa and the Solomon Islands about COVID and we would definitely I would like to join my voice in thanking Australia for the supports that they provide in terms of COVID package relief to as a not only in terms of vaccines but also in terms of the economic support recovery for COVID-19. My thanks go also to other international partners that have joined force with Australia as well to provide crucial supports to our people in Vanuatu. As you know, Vanuatu closed its borders last year in March. And Vanuatu's economy depends mainly on tourism and this has badly affected the tourism sector across the country. While we're still COVID free and since the beginning of COVID until now we only had three cases, our economy is badly affected by the closure of the international borders and which really triggers down into the local community as well, especially those that have relied a lot on tourism. I think looking at that the government has put out to rapidly back home some stimulus package to support small businesses but again COVID got really all of us by surprise. And that means that we have to come up with a lot of different innovative solutions to tackle the problem at hand. I'd like to also mention that the government has focused heavily on the agriculture sector and as you might know we've recently had our national agriculture week on the island of Tana and this was a success whereby we bring a lot of farmers from across the country to come and display their produce but also display their techniques on and provide more of a, I would say a platform where people can come and see how agriculture can actually be a benefit to the current situations in the country. On a number of issues that I'd like to raise in moving forward, I'd like to say that then what to like other Pacific Island countries, we've already faced with a lot of, a lot of negative impact of the climate change. And so before COVID, the climate change has already affected the economy of the country in terms of a lot of different negative impacts that we've noticed in the country especially erosion of the important infrastructure because most of our islands in the Pacific, the infrastructure are located on the coastal area. And so this is a big one that we faced in the country but also displacement, internal displacement of people as well because of the negative impact of climate change. And so adding to that COVID has definitely put another layer of complexities in terms of the issues that climate change has already brought forward to us. And so, like other Pacific Island countries are small and vulnerable economies have sometimes to either innovate or either sink. And so then what we decide that you know we need to move forward and we need to find solutions when it comes to adaptation in terms of climate change but also in terms of recovery with COVID-19. I'd like to also mention in terms of the different supports that we have received as well and how can we move forward in also implementing them. I think, looking right now as it stand right now, all the government stimulus will obviously will come to an end. And we would now have to think forward on how to make sure that we recover from this COVID but we also look into the long term, but looking into long term means that comes with responsibilities but also challenges that are at hand, and you know ahead of us. I think, for us, agriculture would be one of the area that we heavily invest in, and we would definitely like to see partners such as Australia to come in, and to find a lot of our numbers of our priority commodities that the country has. I think it would be also probably the same and I am hearing my colleague from Samo as mentioned as well as mentioned agriculture sector as well and I think what would look mainly into the agriculture sector as well in moving forward. I think that we would also look into investment on people to people because we know that a lot of social issues that have reason COVID has brought into the country as well. Or some of the underlying issues that COVID has now making them important issues such as you know youth women marginalized community. These are some of the issues as well that we would definitely look for support in supporting these people in adapting to that. In terms of the economy itself. We've seen, obviously Vanuatu has continued to have the biggest number of seasonal workers coming to work in Australia, and that also contributes to the economy of the country and we're looking to continue this partnership, in making sure that people are coming to Australia and continue to work here and send remittances back home as well. I heard someone mentioned in terms of the debt, the debt relief as well the debt stress. I think this is also something that is very important that we look into it as well. As we know, and minister probably would touch a word on that but Australia is also a member of the OECD countries and being a member of that. Definitely a member of that countries as well and so we're also probably advocating for debt reliefs as well and looking into different mechanisms for especially for small island developing countries, how in the international community could support us in a better way. As you all know Vanuatu got out recently from the LDCs country, and that means that you know getting out of the least developed countries comes with responsibilities and challenges, and that too a number of our small island in the Pacific, which are already out of that list also would probably be one of the main challenges Vanuatu and I think some of the debt relief strategies and mechanisms that we could also look into Australia for some support in advocating for that. And by saying this I'm thinking mainly out and loud about the vulnerability index that you know they are well being the economic well being of a country should not only be measured based solely on its GDP but it could take into account different factors as especially such as the impact of climate change that we've already seen recently the report from IPCC that didn't put the Pacific Island countries in a very good status when it comes to that. So vulnerability index could definitely be one that we should also consider when we look at debt relief and you know in supporting the small and vulnerable economies. And so I'll stop here and I'll let the members of the panel say more stuff about this, but I think this is really important to us that we look into this direction. I think I would like to raise, sorry. I'd just like to raise one last word I think right now when I speak when I spoke about the agriculture I'm thinking mainly about cover itself, and we're very much delighted that Australia has announced or had announced previously about the commercial pilot on cover and we would definitely be looking forward to work closely with Australia in speeding up the process of this commercial pilot to be to be coming into realization. Thank you. Well, a range of issues there. We've heard about COVID vaccines, agricultural support, obviously the seasonal worker Pacific Labor program, debt relief a whole series of issues. I'd like to ask Minister Selja, how can Australia best assist the Pacific region given its special status as our family. Well, thank you very much, Siobhan. And Excellency is great to see you all. Thank you for your contributions. I'm sorry we're not able to meet in person at the moment, but I've enjoyed those discussions we have had in person in recent months. And Samson, can I can I say I'm disappointed you chose to dress so conservatively today. I was hoping that you might wear something bright and old for us but you've gone very conservative. So next time we'll go even further but but look, thank you Siobhan for hosting and and thank you for the contributions I've been taking notes. Certainly, since I've taken on this role in December of last year and well before that the government of course has been when we look to the Pacific as we always do. We've looked to listen to the needs and the concerns of our Pacific family and of course at this time with the COVID crisis and we've heard I think from our from our homes there about the dual nature of these crises. The health crisis and the economic crisis in the Pacific, that has been quite pronounced because, you know, as we know, there have been parts of the Pacific that have been completely COVID free and an extraordinary job in preventing the spread of this disease. Other places are battling outbreaks and battling those serious health impacts that come with that, but all of them, regardless of their COVID status have suffered the economic impacts of responding to this virus and so when I think about what we can do going forward I the framework I think that the PM set out and the statement of principle that our Prime Minister set out some time ago when he said that we have a moral and economic responsibility to support our Pacific neighbors in getting vaccinated and coming through this crisis has very much framed the way we've responded so whether that is in the vaccine support and that's now around 1.7 million doses Australian doses have gone into the Pacific over two and a half million now into the region and of course many more to come. But the vaccine support is not just about dumping vaccines by any stretch it is about delivering the vaccines that are much needed but providing the end to end support. So we've backed that up with equipment we've backed that up with with osmat teams where they've been required with other specialist support with testing equipment with logistics, all of these things are important over and above that those much needed vaccines and we've been partnering with countries in the region to make sure that we're able to deliver that. The other area of course is the is the economic side of things and as as I mentioned earlier, we know that for some countries that have been very very successful in controlling some cases, no COVID, the economic impacts of those shut borders particularly on tourism reliant economies but beyond even that the economic disruption has been real and so our $300 million package that we announced was all about helping stabilize governments and economies, helping them deliver social safety nets health, making sure that air connectivity continued with provided loans on on top of those grants substantial loans that help stabilize government's responses and we've also been investing in the future and infrastructure. That's important because that creates jobs now but also economic recovery and then we've also as as we look at other levels of support. I think the other thing that's been really important for and it's been really mutually beneficial has been the resumption of labor over 10,000 have come since September since we resumed and that has I think been a real lifeline for our farmers who are putting food on our table, but also it's been I know very important to Pacific Island nations as those remittances are an important part of the economy and become a more important part of the economy as other as other sources of revenue have significantly slowed down. Going forward, I've certainly heard what our homes have had to say today at their excellencies have had to say today and certainly issues around tourism and agriculture and you know tourism. If we look at if we look at government support it is absolutely dwarfed by how much Australians would spend in the region in tourism dollars in an ordinary year and of course that has virtually completely dried up. And so looking at getting populations vaccinated both here in Australia and in the Pacific and then looking at how we can safely start to travel again and you know, Qantas has announced flights going to places like Fiji and that will go beyond I'm sure from about November December. I think that's a great aspirational goal. I think there's a lot of work to do at both ends to make sure that it's a reality that Australians can start travelling to the region and people from Pacific Island nations can come to Australia. That'll be a great thing and the amount of money that flows in ordinary times as I say dwarfs anything that governments are able to do despite our record $1.7 billion investment in the Pacific in the last 12 months. So I'll probably leave it there chair. There is a lot to discuss. There's a lot of important issues that have been raised but I know you've got other questions and I'm sure you'll draw us out on that and I'm keen to hear more from our from our excellencies. Yeah, thank you so much. And you've touched on a range of incredibly important issues that I want. I want to pull back into into one issue that keeps getting raised. And it's been raised by all of you today so far in the panel. And that is is this issue of of the Pacific Labor scheme. We've heard recently that the Australian governments announced a new class of agricultural visas to secure additional labor on Australian farms, and that the visa will operate as a pathway to permanent residency. Could this provide a pathway for economic renewal in the Pacific. So I just like to open that up to the panel but obviously, I think it's important to hear from you, Minister on on this issue. Would you like me to start Siobhan and then I think that would be helpful to others. Sure. Look, I think it's a very important pathway. The Pacific Labor scheme and seasonal worker program, which is obviously been very very important for a number of years but as I touched on has become I think more important during this time because of the real economic impacts particularly tourism but we know all sorts of other economic activity has been curtailed so we restarted it in September. And since then over 10,000 have come from various Pacific Island nations into Australia, there's about 14,000 workers under the scheme in Australia at the moment, and our aim and our Prime Minister announced the intention to double the numbers that are coming in by about March of next year so that's another 12 and a half thousand from when that was announced so that's obviously a very substantial amount though those remittances are important as I said it's very important to our economy. You talk about the agricultural visa and there's been a lot of discussion about what that means for the Pacific Labor scheme and I've made it clear and I'll reiterate and the Prime Minister's made it clear that our priority when it comes to when it comes to labour in agriculture in particular but going beyond and we are going to continue to prioritize the Pacific Labor scheme and seasonal worker program and in fact we're going through a process now where we are going to improve and streamline that process but that those schemes will continue to grow we're going to build on those they are important to us and they are important to our family in the Pacific and we value those schemes for both of those reasons. And so we put an absolute premium on it. There's no doubt though that our agriculture sector is suffering from pretty significant shortages. And so not only will we need to significantly boost the number of people coming through the Pacific Labor scheme but we will look for other ways and the agricultural visa is part of that. And of course we've seen issues around free trade agreements with the UK and some of the changes to the rules around backpackers which necessitated some adjustments as well. So it's really important that our farmers have the workers that they need. That's for our export markets but also for Australians to be able to get the food and fibre produce that they need. Just to make it clear as we go through that process and we will be engaging with Pacific Island nations now as we go through a reform process to improve. So we'll be listening to that feedback and of course some of that feedback will start today no doubt but the feedback on what needs to change or improve but that's very much the pathway that we've set out and it will be a very important part of the economic recovery. Okay I'd like to open it up to some of the other panelists. Thank you Siobhan if I can just. I think there is something to say about this pathway to, you know, the permanent residency that's under the agriculture visa. In some ways, you could say it's a double it short for you know the Pacific in terms of, you know, the drain of skilled and semi skilled workers, and especially those who will have been under the Pacific scheme. You know, for quite some time and have probably developed skills that could actually enhance, you know, the, whether it's horticulture or other forms of sectors that we're working in other forms of, of engaging in economic activity. I think, to me, yes, the labor schemes are certainly, you know, part and parcel of looking at economic recovery for the region. And we've all been engaged with the government for quite some time now, in terms of looking at this new roadmap on sustainable, you know, practice of implementation of the mobility schemes. I think if there's one thing I might like to explore with respect to the this pathway, if there is a chance going into the future and we're talking now, bringing in climate change with respect to climate refugees that might come out as a result of you know, rising sea levels, to value, being the worst off at the moment. I think we're heading that way. As we see the progressive impact of climate change of the Pacific, and that there is real concern that there will be, you know, climate change refugees. And so if there is some way of looking at both medium to long term as to whether the migration, I mean, migration the labor mobility schemes can be seen as an instrument towards some way of facilitating into the future, such a pathway, you know, for not necessarily that but also past a parallel way of looking to where Australian other nations can look at accommodating the impact of climate change on the potential real threat of having refugees coming out of that. Thank you. Thank you. And that was a position that was long put forward by former president and not at home, but also resisted by many other Pacific leaders pathway of climate refugees. Yes, on the on the new visa. My only hope is that the terms and conditions of the visa will be exactly the same as the seasonal workers program and the PLS visas and that the for the letter to to be fair, if the option of permanent residency should also be the letter to how and when that we are further I guess it's a matter for each country to decide. And also on the age limit, I think the current age limit for the two schemes is from 21 to 45 I think our preference now is to increase it to 55. And it's a lot of our workers with the necessary skills are around that age, and also in the experience and I'm sure a lot of employers would like to employ an experienced workers who can take up senior management roles, and only also on the current age limit, I think the SWP and the PLS only confined to rural and regional Australia. Maybe perhaps we should also start looking about opening up the urban and metropolitan Australia, where the demand for semi skilled labor is is very very high. So I will just flag those issues for future consideration, especially in terms of, you know, making these schemes very well, but otherwise it's a very, very important scheme, and I'm sure it benefits both countries, Australia, and so on and so it's a win win situation. Thank you. Can I just come in quickly and mention a few words around the Pacific Labor mobility, but especially agriculture visa. I think from our side, we've had a couple of meetings with the defect in terms of, you know, getting more information in terms of agriculture visa. So, straightforward, we would like to see more engagement with the fact in terms of the agriculture visa itself and I joined my colleague from the Solomon Islands by saying that if the terms and conditions could be exactly the same as ours and not making one more comparable to the other one. And as we all know, Pacific Labor mobility is so important to us, to us Pacific Island countries but also with Timor Leste, that you know it sends important economic remittance back to our countries to support our economy. Another thing that I'd like also to flag is in terms of, we are looking also and we're engaging in terms of finding out more in terms of, you know, the remittance back to our Pacific Island countries and Timor Leste. We have some data on that we know that the some international organizations have undertaken some studies in that but we would also like to see also our contributions a specific family to Australian economy. In terms of knowing if some studies could be undertaken by number of researchers that are with us here today online but also through you minister. We can see some studies done here in Australia to to value our impact in terms of the Australian economy on how much in terms of the monetary value how much we contribute to the Australian economy by being here in Australia not only for our farmers that are so important to us because we have food in our plates, but also to rural towns as well in finding out how much of our workers how much of their savings or how much of their earnings are invested back into these rural communities that they live in. And I think it would be really important to look into that and moving forward and understanding you know mutual benefits to us as minister has mentioned it's so important to both of us because it's not only contribute to our farmers in ensuring that they put food on our plate in ensuring that we get the remittance also back to the Pacific so I think my call would be that the researchers that they're here you know who could look into some kind of studies like that to evaluate the economy contributions that Pacific workers and Timor Lester workers have contributed to the Australian economy. Thank you. Thanks Samson. Shevon, could I respond briefly to a couple of those points. Sure. So thank you on the questions around and Samson's call I think on on more study I think the department is always looking at these these kind of economic impacts but we've got a number of eminent people on this call so we can have more discussions about what potential research programs there are to perhaps drill deeper on the specific issues that have been raised around age limits. I think that is something we're very carefully considering and we're very open to looking at potential changes to the age limits between 21 and 45 so that's something that I think we'll have more to say on soon. And also on the terms and conditions that have been raised so we're very much proceeding on the basis so we've said we're going to reform PLS and SWP, and those things that those moves are coming. But also with the ag visa we've said that it would it would mirror the kind of terms and conditions that we see with our Pacific schemes and I think that's really important it's really important point to emphasize because it's been a little bit of commentary. Even in the last couple of days that sort of suggested something quite the opposite not coming from the government but from some critics. And so I would just make that point again that it's very much designed to mirror what we have and build on and complement not in any way undermine and an area makes the great point about. You know if there was a pathway to permanency what does that mean from a brain drain perspective and of course that's where all of these steps forward will be done in conjunction and in consultation with our civic neighbors so you know we would obviously be having those discussions and hearing from your governments about you know what kind of improvements you want and what are some things that you might be concerned about as well. Thank you. Okay thank you. It's been raised on a number of occasions already by the panel so I want us now to start having a little discussion around these issues of climate change. So the recent IPCC report has has put forward this very clear scientific picture that over the next 20 years global temperatures are expected to reach or exceed 1.5 degrees of warming. This has a number of very serious implications in the Pacific including dramatic increases in sea level rise increased intensity of cyclones and declining availability of fresh water just to name a few. The Pacific leaders continue to state that climate change remains the greatest threat to the future of the region and this is very important in terms of Pacific Island forum statements that have come out. So the boy declaration, for example, Kainaki Lua the Kainaki Lua declaration. So how in this context of of the challenges to regionalism. The, the gentleman's agreement challenges that we've seen from Micronesia. Earlier in the Pacific created shared future with attention to the growing climate change impacts on the Pacific countries, but also to these kind of challenges attached to regionalism that we've seen over the last year. So I'm pulling together these two issues now of climate change but also regionalism. I'm hoping this now for discussion. It's a, it's a big warping. Maybe I'll step in and risk my neck on this one. I think that with respect to climate change I mean we all know the direct impact of that. And we do respect the Australia for the standards taken on, you know, climate change with respect to the Paris agreement and other. But at the same time, I think that there are still other areas that we could explore together. We've got the global, you know, fun environment fun and other financing mechanisms that the islands have fallen on in terms of seeking financing for adaptation projects to build resilience in the economy in their countries. But if there's anything I think it has been raised and it's the Pacific forum. Secretary it has been pushing this. It's to look at also the possibility of a resilience fund. Now when crisis occur, usually it's more on a national basis rather than on individual basis, and most often the effect of assistance that comes in. It's not administered widely by the government. The trickle down effects to those at the grassroots. It's actually quite significantly less than expected so there's no real material impact when the vulnerability of these people is exposed, you know, whether it's by the fact loans and flooding and that sort of thing. So, there's also a lot of bureaucracy involved in administering funds, and also the other side of the coin is that we in accessing some of these funds, the amount of bureaucracy. So, it's just too much, and there's sometimes to bring in capacity outside capacity to assist governments to design, you know, projects that fit in. And yet we're talking about, you know, real lives being lost and exposed. And so we, the secretary had raised this about building in contributions from various development partners interested in building a resilience fund that could be tapped. And go straight into these, you know, vulnerable sectors at the grassroots when these things happen. So that way, at least you can say that at the end of the day, you know, don't just cover just about everybody but these vulnerable exposed parts of the community. Thank you all stop there. Thank you. So, another, another panelist who would like to make a contribution. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, first of all, the first question you posed about how do Australia and the Pacific create a shared future. Well, I personally don't think Australia and the Pacific need to create a shared future they already have. Thanks to our geographical proximity, historical connections, including colonization trade and investment relationships education link this and cultural exchanges so yeah we already have that shared future. And not only does a virtual summit just just last month on 6th of August, they did reaffirm that climate change is still the single greatest threat facing the blue Pacific and recommit to the goals of the Paris Agreement. And now we are just a couple of weeks away from the COP26 in Glasgow. And I'm sure there are a lot of discussions now, particularly among the biggest meters to the agreed target of net zero emissions by 2050. And to also increase their contributions to climate funds and here I must acknowledge Australia's contribution of 500 million for climate adaptation in the region for the period 2020 to 25. And it's technology investment roadmap to drive renewable energy I think that's something that we have to acknowledge and no comment Australia for coming up with that roadmap because that certainly would help in terms of meeting, you know, all our commitments. Just last Friday I was hurting to read in the Canberra Times that Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce is leaving the door open to a deal with the Prime Minister net zero emissions by 2050. So I hope by come the Glasgow climate change meeting I think something positive will come out of the political process here in Australia. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Hi, Mr Faro, if you'd like to make a contribution. Sorry, you're just on mute mute. Can you hear me now. Yes, yes. Okay. Thank you so much to the panelists, but also for some of these great questions coming up. I just wanted to add my voice in terms of the first question that you raise in terms of climate change. I think I'll join my colleague here by saying also that we already were in this region together, we're in this region as a family, the we have stressed on that partnership but also that family spirit a lot together. And that also leads to the fact that we're also custodian of this region and that we have to look after this region and that whatever that affects one member of the family could also affect the other member of the family as well so I think we've already seen that we have a lot of corporations already we work already closely together, whether it be on economic economic lane but also in terms of education health infrastructure we already work a lot in and collaborate a lot in the in these areas but what I would like to stress on in terms of climate change. I would say that I think I would like to see more of transfer of knowledge between what the states and territories are doing in Australia as well because I have visited this great country a number of times and I see that there's a lot of good mechanisms, a lot of good examples of adaptation to climate change across different states and territories in Australia that we could also look into how to tap into that in terms of the transfer of knowledge to our Pacific Island countries so that in the Pacific we're mostly adapting to climate change. We're not so much about mitigation but mostly about adapting so how can we adopt some of these mechanisms or some of these good practices at the state and territory level in here and then transfer of this knowledge back to our countries. I think it would be great to see more collaborations in terms of sharing of the knowledge, but also sharing of the experiences as well. Another big thing that I'd like to mention as well is in terms of education, because it's okay to transfer this knowledge back to the Pacific in, in terms of how to adapt to climate change but you also need to build the manpower as well in that across the Pacific so education is also another area that we collaborate a lot on and so far I think we've, most of the Pacific Island countries, but especially you know our students coming to Australia to study here, we've relied a lot on scholarships. I'd like to see a further step into that as well in terms of how can we look into different partnerships in education in opening up the market in Australia as well whereby our students can come and study these technologies here. Education can be open, you know, can these technologies can be open to them where they can come and study here and get these good information about all these transfer of technologies that I was talking about earlier, and then you know bring those things back to the Pacific. And so maybe we could also look into a partnership where we could probably think of a model of opening up a little bit of education system rather than relying a lot on scholarships for our people to come and study here by means of scholarships and as we know, education is very costly. And so we could probably think of a model where we could relax a bit of the system whereby students can come and study here and maybe, I'm thinking loud here but maybe, you know, paying the same tuition fees as Australians in providing them that support whereby you know it's an indirect support but in the long run it will help them because they will be then able to understand and to study and to get all this knowledge about technologies, especially in terms of climate change and bring them back home. But also, I'm trying to go far here in terms of face replacements as well. We've seen this economic partnership with Australia New Zealand but also with us. That means that we will also need a manpower that is qualified to handle that. And in order to be able to handle that. It's also good to look once again into the education sector in opening up these tertiary education in Australia to our Pacific Island countries where they can come here and maybe probably pay the same price as New Zealanders that come and study here rather than be considered as international students in Australia. So I'll stop here, but I think the transfer of knowledge but you also need to build manpower behind that. Yeah, thank you. So Minister, I'd just like to ask you Minister Cisselda to offer a response to this question and then I'd like to open up to questions more broadly from the other people who are in our discussion today to invite them to ask questions of the panel. Sure, thank you, Siobhan. Look, there's a number of things there and I'll briefly touch on them. I think a number of the points have been made around commitment to the Paris Agreement. And so we take those commitments very, very seriously. We've reduced our emissions by 21% since 2005. That's about double the OECD average, so the average of developed nations. I think that's important. There's record investments at the moment as Samson's touched on in renewable energy in Australia. So the take up of solar is the highest in the world. The take up of wind is right up there. So when it comes to renewables, we are really investing record amounts when it comes to really dealing with some of the issues on the ground in the region. We've put forward $500 million for climate resilience funds in the region and that involves some really important things. So it can be things as simple as schools being built in Fiji to be able to withstand category four cyclones. So obviously that is very, very important as we've seen cyclones in recent times. It can involve flood mitigation. It can involve renewable energy in the region. So we're seeing actual examples of and that has a win-win because obviously energy security is really important for the economy. But if it's done also in a low emissions way, we're then making that contribution in terms of our climate change goals and our emissions reduction goals. The point that Samson made I think is really important just to touch on about knowledge transfer because one of the things that our Prime Minister has said has been that with two thirds of emissions coming from the developing world. And he has said he doesn't want to see the developing world held back through taxes. What he wants to see is the world coming together to develop the new technologies so that economic growth can occur whilst reducing emissions right around the world. And that's the way we will see the goals of the Paris Agreement met is when all countries have that ability to have economic development as well as reducing their emissions at the same time, particularly through energy and other areas. So that technology roadmap is important and so knowledge transfer is important. But Siobhan, just I know you combine two things with climate change and the voice of the region and regionalism just finally on that. And I might bring those two together. I mean, obviously, we're working very closely with our colleagues in the PIF, our Micronesian colleagues, you know, pushing and encouraging everyone to stay together. And for example, I think when we look at the issue of climate change, the voice of the Pacific together, the voice of PIF has been a very powerful one, far more powerful than I think the voices of any of those individual nations would be. And I would just say that that perhaps highlights the importance of finding a way forward of listening to the concerns that have been raised. You know, I've had many discussions with counterparts in Micronesia and beyond about their concerns about what reforms might be necessary in order to make sure that the PIF can continue with its current membership and perhaps with some reforms going forward. So I think those two issues come together well that on an issue that's very important to the region, that advocacy has been loud around the world, but I think it's been far more powerful because it's been quite a united voice. Fabulous. So I'd like us now to just please join with me on reflecting on in spite of all the difficulties of joining together in these virtual spaces. We've had this amazing insight into the Pacific and the fact that the Pacific does reach into Canberra in all these very exceptional ways. Please join with me in thanking our panellists today and the way in which they brought us this this very complex and rich set of perspectives. So thank you very much to all our panellists. Thank you to all of you for joining with us and really engaging in what I think has been a really, a really fascinating panel discussion today. So thank you very much to all of you.