 The city are back here in the studio at Davis media access for another episode of the city considers on autumn lab a Renault, and we're recording this episode on September 25 2019. We're talking today about the move to district elections in the city of Davis, due to some extenuating circumstances we're going to be moving from at large elections where everyone in the city votes for whatever candidates are running to elections, where people only get to vote for candidates in their particular geographic district and joining us today for the discussion are Davis Mayor Brett Lee, and assistant city manager Kelly Stakowitz and thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. So the, the council actually approved the transition to district elections at the August 13 meeting. Yes. And here's where I want to start I attended that meeting because I was curious. And as I walked into community chambers through the crowds of people there. I heard a lot of uproar, you know, if you're I can't believe this is happening we can't let this happen. And then during the course of a relatively brief one hour council meeting, both the city attorney and the council itself laid out exactly the consequences. If we didn't transition what could potentially happen to the city. So, let's start with that I will say by the end of the evening people were coming to you at public comment and saying, I really wanted to fight you on this and I understand that the city doesn't have a choice. So, let's start with what happened to bring the city into the situation and why we don't have a choice. Yeah, so, unexpectedly, we are an attorney in woodland threatened us with a lawsuit under the California Voting Rights Act, and essentially demanded that we move to district elections. Otherwise, we he would sue us under the California California Voting Rights Act. And the thing about the California Voting Rights Act is it's the intent is quite good it's really to make sure that people are not disenfranchised. It probably doesn't really apply to the city of Davis is specific situation, but unfortunately the way the California Voting Rights Act is written, even though the intent is good, the law is written in a somewhat clumsy way. And so it really places the presumption that the city is at fault, if it does not have district elections. And in terms of what you talked about in terms of the August 13 meeting. I think the attorneys sort of laid out some of the cases that have been fought in this area. And it really showed that the municipalities have all essentially lost, even though that they may have very diversity council may have districts that are sort of well proportioned in terms of diversity. Sorry, not districts, but community. But they, the legal fees that these communities have had to pay in terms of trying to defend against district elections have been quite substantial. They weren't pittances and wittier and anaheim they were a million dollars and Modesto they were $3 million and she kind of went on and laid out other other sums there. Yes. Yeah. So, so moving ahead, and the immediate impact is that we will not be having a municipal election in March as planned. And it gets moved to November 2020. Correct. So that was a separate piece. So the council thought, well, okay, we can move to district elections. So why don't we do it in 2022. Once we've had the benefit of the 2020 census and our elections are normally for the city of Davis human municipal elections are during the California primary. So the next California primary is March 2020. We reached out to the Yolo County elections office and said, Hey, is there time to move to district elections for March 2020. And they said, no, there's not. Right. So what we responded back to the law firm that was suing us or potentially suing us and said, Hey, how about we wait until March 2022. We responded back that no, the next city of Davis city council election must be held under a district election system, or they would continue with their lawsuit. Right. And between the August meeting and the September deadline that that the elections office would have needed there simply wasn't tied to prepare. Right. There's a fairly distinct process which Kelly can talk about with specific sort of guidelines in terms of what happens when and also the total duration of the process. Okay, Kelly. So there's a 90 day process that the state law outlines and within that 90 days there's a total of five public hearings that must take place. And then there's publishing requirements for the draft maps and the final maps that have both have noticing requirements of at least a week. And so when you start to add up all of the time in between the public hearings and the noticing, etc. There, there was no legal way to comply with what the state requires to move to district elections and what the county needed in terms of information by their deadlines. Right. November it is. Yeah, we're going to come back to that. The whole community engagement process that's going on around that one of the interesting things though is that we're going to see a city council election and a DJ USD school district election at the same time. And I'll tell you from my perspective of having produced election coverage years for so many years. That's, that's never happened before. We usually deal with them very separately and each gets their spotlight and their attention so it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. So the school district is in a parallel process to the city, they're moving to trustee areas, same as council districts. So that is probably somewhat confusing to the community where we've got two different jurisdictions, moving on the same path, but with very different, likely very different areas because the DJ USD area is much bigger area than the city limits. So it's not a complete overlap. Correct. Yeah. So the word that's been tossed around a lot is demographer, which was a new word for me so tell us what a demographer does and how the city is working with this personal firm. So the city has hired Paul Mitchell of redistricting partners, and he's a demographer which means he looks at all the statistics all of the information about who lives where how many people live in a particular area, what their backgrounds are their ethnicity, etc. It takes all of that census type of information, and has to come up with the lines for the maps that meet the criteria of the California voting right voter rights act. So it's a it's a big task, and he has certain criteria that he'll have to be looking at or that he's looking at currently, aside from just the, the sheer number of people in each district. Now, will this work have to be redone after the 2020 census. It will. So, so the timing is really unfortunate in that regard. The timing is is awkward we have to, we have to do it this time for the reasons that the mayor stated. And then we'll have to do it again after the 2020 census data is is in. That community engagement process we mentioned, there have been a number of there have been a couple of public meetings and there are some more coming up so let's talk about the kinds of information and feedback because there's some very specific things you're you're trying to information you're trying to elicit from people, and then what those dates are and how people can fold in. So the first two public hearings have already taken place. And those were at the council meetings of September 3rd and September 10th. And the primary, the primary purpose of those meetings was to inform the community of what this process is kind of lay it out for everybody. And then to start the conversation on something called communities of interest. So there's still time to weigh in on what your community or communities of interest are what we're looking for from individuals within the city. How do you identify yourself do you say you know my name is, my name is Kelly and I live in West Davis, or do you say I have a kid who attends such and such a school or I go to this particular faith organization or I'm affiliated with the university. We've heard a lot of comments of people saying I'm a renter and I want to make sure that as a renter, my voice is heard. How do you divide the community into renters versus non renters. So these communities of interest we have a form that's on our website that people can fill out. It really just says what how is it that you identify yourself within the community is it a geographic group. An interest group. The demographers taking in all this information and he'll use it to help inform his draft maps. The basis of the one of the basis of the proposed lawsuit, if you will, was was based on cultural and ethnicity, that type of information is that being solicited as well as that part of it. Absolutely. So if people do identify with a particular race or ethnicity, that's information we want to we want to hear about and know as spread alluded to Davis is fairly diverse in terms of where people live geographically. And what we've found when the demographer has looked at the background information is that there aren't particular areas of town that are what he would call a majority minority group. So a particular area of town that is a majority of Latino or Asian was with the two that were called out in the letter. So that that will be a little trickier to try to figure out how we do know that East Davis is very distinct from West Davis is very distinct from South Davis so there are other. We're learning a lot about how people feel about about the community, which is a nice benefit. Right. So there have been two meetings so far at council meetings and then there was a session was it last Saturday. There was a community workshop on Saturday that allowed for people to come in. They got to hear the presentation that the demographer made. So that was an optional thing. But they also got to take their hand and give a try of creating some maps. So he gave them the ground rules equal population across the districts. And then he said, here, here's some dry race pens and place that basically of the map of the city. Go ahead and give this a try. And people really were interested in it. But they found it difficult. So how many districts are we potentially looking at? Do we know that yet? We're contemplating either five or seven. Okay. We have an option of choosing five, seven or nine. And we've asked the demographer to provide maps showing a five district scenario and a seven district scenario. Okay. So, being out there in the community, being the mayor, what kind of feedback are you continuing to get from folks as this process unfolds. So I would say that I'm actually getting feedback on sort of both sides. Some are very positive about this idea of district elections. They feel like district elections will make it easier for people to run for city council. And it will encourage more diverse candidates. Encourage people to step forward and be candidates. I think I would say I'm hearing more from other folks who are opposed to district elections. But I worry that it'll focus people really on sort of their specific neighborhood and not think about kind of the greater good of the community. And there are some concerns that potentially some districts will have weaker elected council members than others just sort of, you know, our current system. Nine or 10 people running for two spots this last time around. And all of those people had candidates had to go and all parts of Davis have coffees meet people campaign. You know, hear what the various neighborhood concerns were. And I think that that whole vetting process helps people be much more ready to be a council member. You can imagine if there's sort of a, you know, five or seven districts, just through the lack of the draw, maybe one person runs on a post. And maybe, you know, one street over in this other district, there might be three people running for one spot. It could create some issues there. It'll be interesting to see. But in terms of the feedback, I would say there are some people who are kind of excited about the prospect and others who are slightly concerned. Well, on the one hand, I can see that it would take less money to if you're running in a district as opposed to having to canvas the entire city. You don't have to reach as many people you don't have to print as many materials and you don't have to stage as many coffees. Okay, so there's that right on the other I think what you were touching on is is a concern that we might become more siloed in our community. If we begin to focus just on on district concerns, which are, you know, larger than neighborhood concerns. We have a strong neighborhood network with the neighborhood councils in town. And as I said earlier, we have a strong sense of identity with the different kind of sectors in town. But I don't think there's currently that that type of siloing going on from your perspective as someone who has run and been elected. I had heard that you were planning to run again in this next cycle. And now our conversation before the show I realized you might not have that opportunity. Yeah, so in my specific case, had a campaign team, kind of in place and we had had four meetings, kind of getting ready to start canvassing and figuring out what the plan was in terms of, you know, glossy mailers to bombard people's mailboxes with. And then this came forward and everyone sort of on the campaign team, most were sort of like, Oh, well, you know, we'll still meet next week. Well, and I said, No, we can't meet because well, there's no point in meeting. I don't even know whether the place that I live in my ultimate district, whether that will have an election in 2020. And we also don't know what the boundaries are so contemplating canvassing at this point makes no sense. And so there's just a lot of things up in the air. The nice thing about this process, sort of a double edged sword, the process is very condensed. The nice thing is, by the first week in November, we'll know exactly what's happening. We'll know what the districts are and which districts are going to be up for election in 2020. So let's two things let's talk about that timeline between now in the beginning of November there are some more meetings let's talk about where they are and how people can fold in. And by September 30, which is next Monday, the draft maps will be released, both five district versions and some seven district versions. And then the third public hearing will be on October 8. The third public hearing and the fourth public hearing, which will be on October 22. Those are both the hearings where the draft maps are under discussion. The changes can be made to the draft maps, presumably the council will settle on one map, eventually or winnow it down to that. So by the close of the item on the October 22 public hearing. The council will basically need to decide two things they'll need to decide which map they want to bring forward with whatever tweaks or changes there may be in that map. They also need to decide on the sequencing of the elections within the different districts. So which of the districts would go forward in 2020 and which would go forward in 2022. Right, because in this transition, we're, we're inheriting a system with the at large elections where next time there are two potentially in three seats, three seats open. So how do we make that lineup to rotating years help me help me with this. It could be a little bit tricky. Yeah, but if we were if we go to a five district system. So replacing the three council members we have now with district elections, then we would have three districts for election in 2020 and two up in 2022. So to a seven district election system, then that gets a lot trickier, just in terms of making the sequencing work correctly. And you would, you would basically have to have five districts up for election in 2020 so that you could fill five seats, and then have the two, two additional in 2022, but one of those districts that you elect in 2020 would likely be a two a two year appointment. Okay, rather than a four that is up to council so you may want to weigh in with different options. It would be ultimately there would be a three person three district election and then two years later for district. So right now we have three and two. Right. So, so what's some of the early thinking on five district versus seven I mean what the difference between them the advantages what what are you hearing from people what are you hearing from the demographer do you know yet. I don't really know. Okay, and the demographer, he's done a variety of different types of districting and redistricting, not all cities sometimes it's boards or, or other groups. So he's used to working with all kinds of different numbers. Cities in California do have the option of 579. I think that council has ruled out nine. We're not that big of a town. I'm not sure we have enough seats at the dais for nine plus the city clerk. But five or seven, I mean, there's just it's it's two different two additional council members and some additional conversation that would take quite say, I suppose your council comment period will last a little bit longer. Yeah, the difference in numbers right now. A five district system would be about 13,000 and some change in terms of number of based on our current census data information. And seven district system would be about 9300. So a little under 10,000. Those numbers will change in 2020 but that's where we are right now. There's a significant impact on on candidates in each district for sure that's a difference of about 40% there. I think of the numbers. So, okay, so, give me those dates again, October, October eight. Okay, the third public hearing where and when. So that's at 630 in community chambers. And then the fourth public hearing will be October 22nd. Also 630 community chambers during a regular council meeting. The last public hearing, the fifth public hearing is really just an up or down vote. It's on November 5th at the council meeting but at that point, based on the law, the final map has already been out and published the council can vote it. In the affirmative or not. Those are their two choices. They can't change it that date. Okay. The idea there is that the public has an opportunity to see the specific map and boundaries well in advance of the council meeting so they can provide, you know, comment on yes or no. I can imagine if there weren't this sort of mandatory just yes or no vote by the council that there could be some last minute like, hey, we'll move the boundary a little bit over here and then how about we do this and then suddenly that's approved looks nothing like the map that was in front of the public. And so, I think that's a nice safeguard and because inevitably someone is going to see something on a map that they don't want in their district and that's going to be a point of contention I would imagine. Yeah, so it's like, Oh, remember that person who, you know, like this and didn't email them back and they really angry at me. I want you to draw the boundary this way so I'll be on somebody else's district. Right. Right. So it gets complicated. What is this process costing the city. So, well, what it's not costing us is millions of dollars in legal fees plus. Yes. We have hired the demographer and the cost for that contract is about $23,000. And then there's the rest of it's really the staff time the council time the community time to to make sure that the process is done appropriately and with as much community input as possible. But it's it's really more of the time cost at that point. Yeah, the California voting rights act allows the legal firm that sort of brought the threat of the lawsuit to recoup up to $30,000 in costs. And what's interesting is they sort of there is no reasonableness test. It really is. Well, gosh, we we spent hundreds of hours getting this ready this this one page letter that we sent you. So we're going to get the full $30,000. You know, here's our bill. So there is that piece of the cost so up to $30,000 to the firm that brought the threat of the lawsuit. Interesting. And I actually was expecting a much higher number there so I think you're right and in terms of some of the numbers we were hearing about lawsuits and other communities that. It doesn't seem so bad. So your, your colleagues on the council I imagine everyone has their own opinion and you've all been discussing and and again I was there August 13th and you know I sensed just a real feeling of the timing is unfortunate we we wish that we didn't have to be pushed into it in this manner but all the options we're going to go ahead and do it. This is not by the way the first time district elections have it's not first time the topics come up. Right. Yeah, so. Yeah, we, I think there's some merit to moving to a district election system, but there's also some merit to the at large system. I think there's some. It's reasonable to worry about sort of enhancing the inherent nimby ism that we all experienced right so like I don't know if I want this near my house or my neighborhood. That's a natural tendency. I think moving to districts, potentially allows that to be part of our system of governance, whereas now you know earlier just before the interview we're talking about South Davis and mace Boulevard. And we're trying our best to really get that road segment back on track right. I'm as a council member of the city of Davis. I'm responsible for all neighborhoods. So it doesn't matter where you live. The fact that you live in Davis. Hey, you're my constituent and my job is to really you know work with you to help address your issues. So I think it's a little bit of a reflection is that becomes a little weaker. I mean, there is this concept of yes, I'm a council member for the city of Davis and you live in Davis, but you're not kind of in my district. You don't really vote for me and I'm not really responsible directly for making sure that you're happy with how I'm doing. And so we'll see how it goes. We'll work outside of their neighborhoods and work well with others. So, we'll see. One of the, one of the things that we've been doing some thinking about is the district election process that really happens on election day. Right. Yeah, vote in your district for whomever is running in that district. The governance process is what happens over the next four years for whoever's in that election. And so trying to trying to balance the need for good governance with the desire for the district elections is something I'm sure we'll be working through as we switch to this new system. Well, one last question on that note is the does the California Voting Rights Act provide for any sense of remediation if if district elections are, you know, you go to district elections, and the hope for goals and objectives of that. Is it materialized? In fact, they go in the other direction. There's no. And so Kelly kind of mentioned this. So Davis is fairly diverse. Yeah. We don't have sort of a neighborhood which is majority minority in terms of Asian American. And there are other communities that do have that situation and you can see how district elections will help members of those communities to get a seat on the council. For the city of Davis, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But I would say that, I guess, making the barriers to run for council a little lower. Ultimately might make a broader group of people step forward. So it's always a good goal. It'll be very interesting to see how the process pans out. So I want to thank you both for making time in your busy schedules to come in and talk about this. I've been really curious to learn more to dig a little bit deeper and I hope that talking about the process and letting people know where they can fold in is helpful. All right. You have been watching the city considers and we've been talking about the city's move to district elections. And my guests have been Mayor Brett Lee and assistant city manager Kelly Stakowitz. My thanks to them both. You can find episodes of the city considers online at DC TV dot Davis media dot org. And before I forget to mention go to city of Davis dot org and plug in district elections and you'll find all the resources there. Thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time.