 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Okay, we're back. We're live here at the four o'clock block, and we're talking about life in Varanasi, Varanasi, India. And we have on the phone and on Skype, we have Karteki Mishra, who is a student, a business student in the university there, in one of the universities in Varanasi, India. Thank you for joining us again, Karteki. Thank you for having me. That's great. It's been a long time. How have you been? It's been months since we talked to you last. How have you been? It was fine. I was thinking about topics which we will talk about next, and what will be the thing which will interest both the United States and India? So tell me how school is. So you're a business student. What university are you in and how far advanced are you? It's a college. It's not a university. It's affiliated to a university. It's the School of Management Sciences, Varanasi. And it's 25 kilometers from my home. Andy, are you living at home, or are you living at the school? I'm living at home. I travel daily. So you have to commute every day, 25 kilometers? Yes. Okay, how are you doing in school? Are you doing well? Yes, I'm doing well. Are you working hard? Are you staying up till the middle of the night studying for your programs there? I study like an average student. I do not take that much effort, but I study. I try to be sincere towards the subjects or the teachers who teach me. What are your primary courses? Each year, subject changes according to the semester. So each semester, six weeks of the subjects are introduced. Okay. Let's talk about some of the things that have been happening in India lately. One of the things that's been prominent is Republic Day. If Republic Day, I guess, celebrates the independence of India, what does it celebrate? We celebrate Republic Day because in 1915, the Constitution came into force on the 28th, 2060 January. We celebrate Republic Day for adapting the Constitution. Ah, and so what happens on Republic Day? Is there a celebration of some kind? Yes, National Parade is there. All the regiments of military and representatives of different states of India take part. Cultural events take part. They do the intact events particularly. Varanasi is pretty far away from, you know, any of the really big cities in India. What kind of celebration do you have in Varanasi? In Varanasi, especially, I will talk about, in the police line, the police area does the parade in Varanasi area. And in Delhi, National Parade, where each area celebrates Republic Day according to the geographical genes. Especially in East, police celebrate the Republic Day. So in Varanasi, is there a parade? Yes. Did you march in the parade? Police people march in that parade and the training begins for, I think, 15 days before the Republic Day and in the police line area they march. Not in the cities, but in the particular area. So it's a day off from work? Nobody works that day? It's a national holiday, but people go to their institutions for officers to celebrate the Republic Day. Flight hosting is there. Each and every institution votes flight. So, Karthike, you know, has Republic Day changed in your lifetime? I mean, is it becoming more important, less important? Would you say that people are just as patriotic today as they were five years ago? Yes. Or is it the other way around? Not patriotic, but I think when people are unsatisfied, they are towards the government, not towards the country. So whenever people feel they are misled or they gave the power to the wrong government, it's a fact that the government is wrong, not the country. So they are patriotic towards the country, but they can be sometimes distressed towards the government. So yeah, you know, one admirable thing about India is there's a lot of free press. As a matter of fact, there's tons of free press. You can go and find so many newspapers online from India, all in English. And you can learn a lot about every corner of what's happening in India. And I wonder if Republic Day is a time for protest. I wonder if it's a time for people to express themselves, express any satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the policies of the government. Are there protests on Republic Day? No protests, but sometimes opposition makes some protest or say that today, in this year only 2018, the Congress Party said that or the head of the Congress Party, the president of the Congress Party, was seated on the 6th row, in the 6th line of the 6th row of the audience. So the opposition was making a cry that why he is the head of the president of the party, why he is sitting at back in the 6th row. He should be on the 1st row. Some things like this are taking place, but not anything against the nation. Okay, well that's interesting. So you would say people are patriotic, people care about India, they want to see India succeed. There's nobody who has a big criticism of India in the country right now. There is no dissatisfaction towards the country, but some dissatisfaction towards the government. Because the policies of Prime Minister Modi are a bit, I should say, over the top for the people to believe in. That's the problem that Modi government is having right now. So may people believe that the decisions which he is taking will benefit India? Well, okay, let's talk about some of his policies. And would you say that Mr. Modi is more popular now than the time he was elected or less popular? He was popular definitely four years past from the election. In 2014 he was elected and it's now 2018. One year only left for him. In 2019 general elections will take place. So his popularity is reduced, but the trust is certainly there with him. Some trust is with him right now. Do you think if there was an election today Mr. Modi would win again? Modi would win again, but not with the same majority which he had in 2014. He came to power in 2014 with 340 seats out of 543. And if the elections take place now, I believe it would be around something within 200 or 300. And in order to form a government he has to have half, is that it? He must have half the seats in order to have a government? I think that governments in India are especially changing at times. People believe that one party is not doing well, they vote for the other party. If Modi is not performing, they will vote for Congress again. So there is a chance that Congress may come in 2019. No possibility, but it can. Okay, well let me take a digression and ask you about how India feels about Trump. And I suppose inherent in that is how India feels about the United States. You know in the United States there is a lot of polarization here. And although there is some 30%, maybe 35% of the people in the country like Trump and like whatever he does, the rest of the country doesn't like him. And one thing after another alienates most people in this country. And I wonder how the people in India feel about that. It's a kind of remarkable situation where most people in a given country don't like the leader. And yet he continues to do exactly what he was doing before, if not more so. What do people in India think about that? What do they think about Trump? I personally think any person who is elected by the people is the true representative. No matter how he looks or what he says. But people in India think that Trump is doing well because he is speaking against terrorism. He is speaking for American people like Modi speaks for Indians. Trump speaks for Americans. So ideologically I think we are aligned somehow aligned. Trump speaks about America first. Modi speaks about making India. They are different, totally different polar opposites in some aspects. But in case of terrorism, in case of national security, I think they are like-minded person. India believes that on case of terrorism they stand with Trump and no other president. Before Trump made it clear to Pakistan that they are harboring surveillance to the terrorists. Yeah. Well what about Trump's international, well what about his immigration policies, you know? What about the way he treats people who would like to get permanent residence in this country? Or for that matter, come here and study and work. He is trying to minimize the entry of immigrants into the country. How do people in India feel about that policy? People are a bit in the picture of that because a lot of Indians work in the United States. Each year nearly thousands of people visit the United States for work. And if he comes strict rules in tariffs on nothing, in that immigration policy, it becomes very difficult for Indians to cope with Trump because our IT industry is in line with the United States. A lot of Indians are working in the IT industry in the US in the Silicon Valley. Yeah, sure. Well Indians are very intellectual contributors to this economy in the United States. They provide a lot of intellectual contribution and they do well in the United States. And they stay here and they place their destiny here and some of them are really upset about the way he's handled immigration. And I suspect that the people in India who would like to come to the United States, possibly you one day, will have a more difficult time of it going forward. Does that concern you? First of all, I think that it's a matter of time. The growth rate in India is much more than in the United States. So we have more opportunities in India than in the US. Though there is development, but we are growing at the rate of 7%. And if we maintain that for nearly two or three decades, I think we can come in comparison with the United States in the next 30 to 40 years. So we have opportunity in India. I think you're doing fine actually. So let's talk about policies in general. You spoke before we started about the need to discuss the 2018 budget that Mr. Modi is presenting in India. What is that like? What is remarkable about it and how do people feel about it? People are a bit dissatisfied about the budget because it is targeted for the elections of 2019. The elections in 2019, so budget is according to it to please the farmers, to please the poor people in India by providing them health, FEMA, health policies. And many things are given to them also. Well, one of the elements in the budget of course in both places is how do you deal with the disadvantaged? How do you deal with the people who don't have enough money to get along? How do you deal with what we call the social safety net to help people? And in this country, the Republican Party and Trump, they've taken steps to try to change health care and make health care less available to a lot of people in this country. It's really surprising. So moving further away from socialized medicine. And I know I've read in a paper that Mr. Modi has a big program in favor of health care and he's going to try to help the poor, 500 million poor by virtue of a new health care program that he is rolling out in India. What is that like? How do people feel about that? How do you feel about that? Basically, India is the mixed kind of economy. So we have both the features of capitalistic and social economy. So according to that, I think government tries to provide medicines to people at lower cost. Or sometimes I would say the life saving medicines are cheaper than in the United States. So I think health care in India is much more available to each and every person. So I won't say that it's available to everyone, every poor person in India, but it's not cheaper in the United States and it's better than in the United States in some aspects. I was going to ask you about that. You know, we just had a show the other day. I don't know if you get a chance to watch our shows, but on our, what is it, our Tuesday, we have a show on medicine. We have emergency room doctors and other doctors who come and talk about, you know, medical advances and the economics of medicine. And one of the things that came out in discussion that day, this past Tuesday, was that 18% of the gross domestic product of this country is applied toward medical care. That's a huge amount of money, huge percentage. And I wonder if it's the same kind of percentage in India whether there's concern about too much money for health care. I know that, you know, India has quality medicine in many places. And I wonder if you feel that you're getting quality medicine and I wonder if you're paying too much for it. No, I don't think we are paying too much for it. From the point of view of a common man, I think it's much higher. But from the my living standard, I think it's affordable. If you have proper health insurance, if you have proper finance, you can afford that. It's affordable, very affordable. Government is trying to make medicines affordable for each and every person who is living in this nation. First of all, I would like to say that in India, few processes like dialysis of kidneys and other things are free to the poor people. So government is trying to make, not Modi government, but all the governments of India to make medicine and health facilities affordable to the people of India. Yeah. So you're a student. Do you have health insurance? Do you pay for medical services on an ongoing, you know, ad hoc basis where you pay for what you get? Or do you have health insurance? And who helps you with the health insurance? Is it through the school? Is it your own self? Is it through your family? How do you get health care, Karteki? Basically, I want to describe my health care. I have no particular insurance with the family. Family finances my health care or something, medicines, which I require. But no particular health insurance for me. Yeah. So is this initiative by Mr. Modi about expanding health care and reaching to the poor? Is this popular? It is possible, but it's not reaching to every person because India is a very huge country in terms of population to reach 1.3 billion people. With that facility of health care, it's really difficult for any government to do that. Though we are federal like United States only, but it's difficult to reach every person because corruption is there in India. Yeah. Okay. Let me shift a little bit and talk about international things with you. Now, we know that probably because of Mr. Trump's policies and his refusal to engage on a lot of trade and diplomatic agreements around the world, he's refusal to join the COP 21, 2, or 3 environmental groups and agreements in Paris and other places in Europe and Bond this year a few weeks ago. He's created a vacuum in geopolitical affairs and he's allowed China to move into that vacuum. And China through Xi Jinping has taken many steps to fill the vacuum and to become a world leader. And I wonder if that changes India's relationship with China, the way you see China, and the way you do business with China. Any thoughts about that? Yes. I think what I think personally, President Trump moved away first from Paris Agreement related to this environment and then he moved from Trans-Pacific Agreement. And anything, he is moving United States back into that position before it was in World War I. It was isolationist policy and isolation especially. United States is moving in the very same direction which is moving fast. And if he continues this same process of isolation, I think the United States will have to think about how it will trade. If United States moves from other countries with trade agreements, then where they will sell their markets or the products they make each year. So India and China are markets and if nations like United States won't trade, how you are going to spend that product that you have produced in the entire year. And for China, I would like to say India and China are occupying the role of United States as United States is moving towards isolation. India and China is moving towards globalization. In Davos, our Prime Minister, we spoke about that anti-globalization. It was targeted towards President Trump only. That few nations are trying to move away from globalization. Globalization has benefited many nations but it has caused impact in a negative manner with nations. For example, nations from Africa and in Southeast Asia, few nations are there which are suffering from anti-globalization. But I think in modern day scenario, trade is necessary. Each and every nation should trade. So do you favor the Trans-Pacific Partnership? Do you favor multilateral trade agreements or do you prefer bilateral trade agreements? I prefer multilateral trade agreements because bilateral trade agreements can be broken because of one nation. But when there is a multilateral trade agreement, I think all the nations are responsible for it and collectively nations take steps for moving towards a better future for better trade between the nations. So Mr. Modi, also asking about the average Indian, asking about you for that matter, do you feel that it should be India first or every country first in its own interest? Or do you feel there should be a concern about the common good and the global good, especially regarding environmental issues? If I have to describe that, I think few things should be of interest of humanity and then of national interest, like environment, terrorism and trade. These three things are, I think, of global concern. So these should be priorities of each and every nation in respect of their national interest. Second comes the national interest, which Mr. Modi speaks about, that their personal nation first. So I agree with it. Is India taking affirmative steps? I assume India is a signatory on the Paris Accord and I assume that India is taking some steps anyway to improve its environmental citizenship. But can you tell me what steps it's taking and how zealous it has been in trying to improve carbon emissions, for example, and participate in cleaning up the global environment? I would like to say India has a lot to learn from China. First of all, China added a lot towards air pollution and all these problems related to the pollution and environment in China only. Due to industrialization it had all these problems. But India is now industrializing. So India needs to first learn from China. Our government is trying to do. The system of engines from cars and bikes and motorcycles are now changing. They are converting into a much more advanced model. Before, I think 2000 or something, BS3 engines were allowed in the motorcycles and cars. Now BS4 type of engines are allowed in the cars or motorcycles. So these kinds of few steps are taken by the government of India so that we can curb the problem of pollution. And if you talk about pollution, we have a lot of cities in India. Policy only is very popular, polluted, fixed in rank, I think. And Delhi is first in India. And Delhi is now becoming the most polluted city in the world, I think. So do you think that because of the changes around the American policy through the actions of President Trump, that India's relationship with China has changed? Would you say that India is more friendly now with China than it was, say, a couple of years ago? Would you say that India is in a mood to make deals more than it was a couple of years ago with China, especially around the one-belt, one-road policy where Xi Jinping wants to connect with everywhere? I'm not sure if the one-belt, one-road goes through Northern India, but it might go nearby. In any event, it's going all the way by rail and otherwise, all the way to Europe. And he is trying to bring Chinese influence to every place he can. And I wonder if that one of those places of influence is India. On few issues, India stands with China, first of all, environment. I will focus on environment because India and China are focusing on environment. China is moving from private segments. These two nations are not building the gap of that. A private segment effort, or in which United States moved away and showed that it is not concerned about environment. But India and China are concerned about environment. Each year, every year, our presidents or prime ministers try to say that environment is a priority of global interest. And secondly, I would like to say about China's one-belt, one-road usage. According to one-belt, one-road, it is passing through Pakistan. One initiative, one project is passing through Pakistan, which is known as the China-Pakistan Economic Title. It passes through the disputed territory of Kashmir, which India claims to be its territory. So it is a dispute regarding that one-belt, one-road. China is supporting a dispute between India and Pakistan, though we are agreeing on a few issues. But India stands apart from China. India has its own problems with China, according to that one-belt, one-road also. Well, yeah. And we live in times when there's nuclear threats and, you know, well, nuclear threats hither and yon. And nuclear build-ups, if you will, believe it or not, after all this time, people have forgotten what the bomb can do. So we have the contention between North Korea and the United States. By the way, you know, we had a false alarm here in Hawaii only two weeks ago, which was of great concern, because somebody pushed a button that sent a message to everybody saying that there were intercontinental ballistic missiles headed our way ostensibly from North Korea. Did you hear about that? Was that news in India? Yes, I heard about that. That nuclear missile threat was there. And I think that was something very positive. Whoever or whatever person did that, that gave a very clear message that is United States prepared for a nuclear war. I am not saying a nuclear war will take place, but is United States prepared for a nuclear threat? Cold war has ended, but there are significant nuclear threats from around the world, not Korea only, especially U.S. All the nations are thinking about North Korea, how dangerous it is as a nation. But I believe that nuclear weapons should act as a deterrent, not as a weapon to terrorize the different nations. We do also have nuclear weapons just as a deterrent because China has, Pakistan has. What I believe is what's the problem with North Korea? United States should accept the fact that North Korea is a nation with a nuclear weapon. It's recognizing, UN, that North Korea should have a weapon, nuclear weapon. And United States agrees with that policy. Because the main reason Kim Jong-un is protesting is because United States does not recognize other nations as nuclear powers. So if United States recognizes that North Korea is a nuclear power or all the nations apart from the U.S. is self-proclaimed power, the problem will not be solved. Interesting. But don't you agree, Karteke, that if you have more members in the nuclear club, then it's always possible for a mistake. The more people you have with more fingers on triggers, the more possible it is for one of them to make a mistake and therefore engage us all in a nuclear conflagration. I mean, we saw what happened in Hawaii where one person made a mistake and that was pretty threatening. A particular view of the fact that it could have resulted in countermeasures right away. So here we have North Korea, obviously on the road to nuclear weapons. We have Iran on the road to nuclear weapons. Some say there's a real relationship there. And India, of course, has nuclear weapons. And so does Pakistan have nuclear weapons, with whom you're not always friendly. And the club grows. There are so many nations now with nuclear weapons that it is of great concern. Reminds us of the armaments that were going on in 1914 before World War I, where anything could start off the dry tinder and create a war. Doesn't that concern you? I think that first of all, every nation knows what is nuclear and how dangerous it can be. We have the example, the FAM, how driver and traffic efforts for nuclear weapons was there. But I think nuclear weapons should act as a deterrent. It's not a threat to each and every nation. But it's a safety measure which each and every nation has. It's only for satisfaction that we have a nuclear weapon, no mission to attack us. For example, United States attacks North Korea with a nuclear weapon. It's 100% sure that North Korea would retaliate with nuclear weapons. But if we, like President Trump and Kim Jong-un, they attack each other, they can't do each other. They know that. They can't do nothing. Neither United States nor North Korea. It is a position of contention only. But I won't say it is a problem which can't be solved. That's the only reason I believe that. Each and every nation should be recognized as a nuclear weapon by the nations having nuclear weapons. Apart from if we recognize that the basic fact that the person in front of me is as equal to me as we are, I think that the issues will be solved easily because it is a matter of ego and self-respect. If you give respect, you will get respect. Kind of a egalitarianism. Well, we're almost out of time, Karateke. And I certainly have enjoyed this discussion with you as I did last time. And I would like to do it again and again. And if you're available, we'll call you again and try to continue our study of what is happening in India and other people in India and how you feel about things. I'm very interested in that. And I wonder if you could give us a pre-see on what you'd like to discuss next time. What is your interest? What are the things that we might have discussed today but we didn't have the time? What would you like to go to next time? Okay. I think we will discuss next time about the issues related to press in India. We will discuss about things related to international policy, that Trump's policy on Israel was left out. I think we have many issues to discuss. I agree with you. The more I think about it, the more issues. And I greatly appreciate your willingness to discuss them and your worldliness, actually, Karateke. You may be a business student, but you are a student of the world. I really appreciate that. And we will continue these discussions. I'll be back to you suggest dates and we'll resume in the next few weeks to see what's going on in India. Thank you so much, Karateke. Thank you. Aloha. Thanks for having me.