 Recording in progress, one minute from the broadcast. I'll give you a 30 second cue and then a now cue. Thank you for that. Don't need it. Good evening, colleagues. Good to see everybody. Happy new year, Charlie. Thanks for the new year to you. Thank you. New year, thank you for everything, Charlie. I can be a councilman with you any time. Yeah. As long as it keeps saying like it is. All right, let's see. 30 seconds. Good evening, good evening, everybody. Happy new year to each of you. I would like to call the Durham city council meeting to order for this the third day of January, 2022, a new year. We certainly want to welcome all of you here in attendance and those joining us remotely as well. Well, we're all on virtual at this point. So welcome everybody. Let's have a moment of silent meditation and recognition that we're all here in a new year. Thank you. Thank you all. I'm now allowed to recognize councilwoman Freedman to lead us in our pledge of allegiance. Thank you. And as you join me, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Madam Clerk, happy new year to you as well. Would you please call the roll? Sure, happy new year to everyone. Mayor O'Neill. I am here. Mayor Pro-10 Middleton. I'm here. Councilmember Freeman. Present. Councilmember Johnson. Here. Councilmember Reese. Here. And Councilmember Williams. Here. Thank you. All right, we are all ready to get started and we start the new year off with the first for me and that is two proclamations. We will have the first one for the National Mentoring Month Proclamation. Councilman Williams will lead us with that one and we will be followed by a proclamation honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, and that will be read by Mayor Pro-10 Middleton. And I believe Durham City, Bull City, West End resident, Mr. Dewar and Langley will be here to receive these. So we'll start with Councilman Williams if you would read your proclamation. Thank you, Madam Mayor and colleagues. I'm honored to read this proclamation. Whereas created in 2002 by the Harvard School of Public Health and Mentor, the National Mentoring Partnership, January 2022 marks the 20th anniversary of National Mentoring Month, an annual campaign to focus attention on the need for quality mentors. And whereas the goals of National Mentoring Month are to raise awareness of mentoring, recruit individuals to mentor, equip mentors with the skills needed to support youth and encourage organizations to integrate quality mentoring into their efforts. And whereas a mentor is a caring, independent person that provides a consistent presence and devotes time to a young person to help them discover personal strength and to preserve and achieve, persevere and achieve their potential through a structured and trusting relationship. And whereas quality mentoring encourages and empowers youth to make positive choices, promotes self-esteem and character development, supports academic achievement and leadership, college readiness and career exploration. And whereas during the COVID-19 pandemic, mentoring programs have stepped up to fill gaps for youth and families, connecting them with resources and ensuring that mentoring relationships continue virtually to prevent social disconnection and mitigate learning loss. And whereas mentors serve a critical role in helping youth successfully complete high school and gain admission to college and or training programs, build new in-demand skills, prepare for the future of work and succeed in the ever-changing workforce. And whereas mentoring programs must incorporate work-based learning to prepare and connect youth with real-life work experiences where they can apply academic, technical and soft skills to develop their employability while exploring career pathways. And whereas national mentoring month is the time of year to celebrate, elevate and encourage mentoring in the city of Durham. Now, therefore, you, Mayor Elaine and us as council, in the mayor of the city of Durham, the city council of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim January 2022 as national mentoring month. And Durham and hereby encourage all residents to observe this month with appropriate ceremonies, activities and programs. Witness by hand the third day of January, 2022. Our honor, Mayor Elaine O'Neill. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, if you've ever read the second one, I think we'll follow that up with who these proclamations will be given to. Yes, ma'am, thank you so much. Good evening, Madam Mayor, good evening colleagues and friends and all watching. Madam Mayor, this is one of the coolest prerogatives of your office to issue these proclamations and you are under no obligation to share it with us. So I want to tell you how deeply honored and pleased I am to be allowed to in particular read of this proclamation honoring, not of course a personal hero of mine, but for so many millions of people around the world, Dr. King is just a light of hope and inspiration, a colleague, a fallen member of my fraternity as well. So this is a deeply personal honor for me to be able to read this proclamation. Madam Mayor, if all things had gone as planned, Dr. King actually would have been in Durham on April 4th, 1968. On the day of his assassination, he was scheduled to be in Durham, North Carolina, but instead he was in Memphis, helping our striking sanitation workers. So this is a deeply personal and somewhat poetic honor that he would have been in Durham on the day he was killed, but he was doing what he was called to do, a proclamation honoring the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Whereas a champion of nonviolence and justice, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. devoted his life to strengthening the content of American character, fought unrelentingly for the civil rights of all Americans and taught us that courage displaces fear. Love transforms hate. Acceptance dissipates prejudice and mutual regard cancels enmity. And whereas in the face of hatred and violence, Dr. King preached a doctrine of nonviolence and civil disobedience to combat segregation, discrimination and racial injustice and believed people have the moral capacity to care for other people. And whereas Dr. King was one of the leaders of the successful 381 day Montgomery bus boycott in 1955 to protest the arrest of Rosa Parks and the segregation of the bus system. And whereas Dr. King helped found and served as the first president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in 1957 to coordinate and support nonviolent direct action as a method of desegregating bus systems across the South. And whereas between 1960 to 1964, Dr. King spoke in Durham at White Rock Baptist Church, the Durham business and professional chain, Hillside High School, the Southern Political Science Association at the Jack Tar Hotel, North Carolina College, now North Carolina Central University and Duke University, urging civil disobedience and nonviolent protests to end racial segregation and discrimination. And whereas on August 28th, 1963, Dr. King led the march on Washington for jobs and freedom, the largest rally of the civil rights movement during which from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and before a crowd of more than 200,000 people, he delivered his famous, I Have a Dream speech, in which he called for an end to racism and advocated for the civil and economic rights of African Americans. And whereas the march on Washington was instrumental in the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin, and prohibited unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, employment and public accommodations. And whereas Dr. King helped to organize the monumentally inspiring Selma to Montgomery marches in 1965 to advocate for passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 to guarantee African American citizens the right to vote. And whereas Dr. King was supporting the garbage workers in Memphis, Tennessee and planning the Poor People's Campaign to promote economic justice when he was assassinated in Memphis on April 4th, 1968. Now, therefore, I, Elaine M. O'Neill, Mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina do hereby honor the life and work of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his commitment to improve the human condition of all people through access to quality education, affordable housing, equal opportunity, shared prosperity, quality healthcare, living wage employment and safe labor conditions for all employees. I hereby urge all residents to join in reflecting on Dr. King's life and fulfilling his dream. Witness my hand, this the third day of January, 2022, Elaine M. O'Neill, Mayor, city of Durham. I am humbled and awed by this. And I'm so honored to be able to present it to both proclamations to my homeboy, my side of town, young man, that I've watched grow up and graduate from NCCU School of Law. Mr. DeWarn Kay Langley, who is the Executive Director of the Charles Hamilton Houston Foundation, Incorporated. Mr. Langley, if you will. Good evening, Madam Mayor O'Neill, Mayor Pro Tem, little 10 members of the City Council, City Manager Page, City Attorney and members of the administration. Thank you so very much for this opportunity to speak this evening. First, I must say, Mayor O'Neill, it was when I met you, when I was in the third grade, sitting on the couch, speaking to my third grade class at Duke University. When you mentioned that you were from the West End, it actualized for me the dream of being able to go to law school because I knew I didn't know anyone at the time to go on to law school and it was just a dream and a thought. And that is why every year we do this proclamation about mentoring because it is your example, your friendship, your mentorship and your investment in young people that all of the young people in their own need in order to realize, actualize and fulfill their dream. And so this evening, I'm here to accept this proclamation with the goal of one, to recruit and equip mentors with the skills needed to support you to advocate for the incorporation of work-based learning and three, support initiatives to close the academic achievement and opportunity mentor gaps that promote critical mentor and to support boards of color. And there are a number of organizations that are that joined in supporting this proclamation that typically would come before council and briefly share about their organization. And due to the COVID pandemic, many have shifted to workforce and reduced operations in order to be able to accommodate the young people that they serve. But I do want to mention those organizations. And I will also be emailing council the name, description and contact information for each one of these organizations because we are every day on the front line supporting our young people as they navigate life in order to be able to realize what it is that they want to do with their skills and talents and to support them along their continuum. For those organizations include Men InVision, the Thomas Mitchell Leadership Academy, the Forbes Youth Foundation, the 100 Black Men of the Triangle East, the Durham Board of Color Coalition, proud program, Jubilee Home, the We Are Kings Board of Color program of Durham Public School. We are Queens Girls of Color program of Durham Public School, Brother to Brother, Rotor Generation, National Society of Black Engineers, Research Triangle Chapter, MBK Durham, Audacity Labs, Mentor North Carolina, Big Brothers, Big Sisters of North Carolina. We are El Centro, the Triangle Literacy Center, Fatherhood of Durham, Durham Children's Initiative, Bull City Bulldogs, Young Male Achievers, the Boys and Girls Club of Durham and Orange Counties and I Am Me Girls. And in honor of National Mentoring Month, there are a number of programs that we have organized for this month, including receiving proclamation from the Board of County Commissioners on January the 10th, who will also be hosting a mentor training by Samuel Bellamy, the Director of Training and Program Development for Mentor North Carolina. So if there are any members of our community that are willing to take on the charge from our mayor to contribute five to two to five hours per month in our community, this will be a great way for you all to learn about what it means to be an effective mentor. We will also be hosting a discussion about the assignment and equipping and supporting boards of color during this challenging time with the Office of Equity Affairs of Durham Public Schools. And that event will be on Wednesday, January the 26th. We will also be hosting a resource fair for Durham Public Schools teachers so that they are aware of community-based organizations that are in the community that will be held on January the 19th, who will also be partnering with the Durham MLK Stairing Committee from the Quiz Bowl, which will be the Let Freedom Rain Quiz Bowl on January the 29th from 1 to 3 p.m. So that'll be an opportunity for young people in our community to show their knowledge and wisdom about the life, legacy and work of Dr. King, the each member of the winning team will receive $100. And then the Charles Hamilton Houston Foundation is launching a career plan competition where we will provide information about how to develop a career plan and challenge boys and young men of color in our community to develop their plan, create a YouTube video. And then based on the number of views and an evaluation of those career plans, we will be issuing a cash prize for the first place finish of $250 and second and third place as well. So we have a number of events this month to highlight the importance and the need for quality mentor in our community. So thank you so very much for that proclamation. And we'll have a wonderful week. Thank you so much, Mr. Langley. And thanks to all of the organizations who are out there as boots on the ground. One thing that I do know, one thing that I do know, and I'm sure of in my heart is that one caring adult, one caring adult will make all the difference in a child's life. All it takes is one caring adult. So think about how we're going to do that this year in a real way. Not everybody can do the front line work, but there's enough work for all of us to do something. So I'd like to open the floor to our to my colleagues for any thoughts, reflections, comments, announcements at this time. We haven't been together since last year. So we have a little bit of ground to cover. Anybody want to go first? We've been in an announcement, so comments. Yes, Councilwoman Cabrera. Please. Good evening, everyone. Happy New Year, please. And we will get to see you all even up on Zoom. And I will say that I'm glad we made this decision in December based on our cases, which is why I asked to comment. This is to encourage our residents to continue masking up. We still have our mask mandate in effect. And I'm glad that we made that decision many months ago to keep that in effect. I feel like it has made Durham a much safer place to be right now. Also encouraging folks to go get boosted if they have not. It is a really important thing you can do to extend the life of your vaccine, get vaccinated if you haven't. And also, this is big for those of us with children 12 and over are those that age group can now also get a third shot or booster. So please look to the county website for the information where your children get boosters and planning on taking my children to their doctor's office, where we will get boosters for all three of our kids. It's incredibly important, especially with school back going back in person. I want I want to extend a lot of thoughts for our school board members. I know that there's a lot of pressure on them to cancel school. And we also know that that is not something that they can do because of a law that was passed the General Assembly last spring. So that has put us in a bind and I'm thinking about them because I know a lot of parents are scared right now, myself included. But I know they're also making the best decision that they can in this moment. The other thing you can do if you're a Durham public school parent is sign your students up for weekly testing free to you. All three of my children will be getting tested. It's incredibly important so that we can help stop the spread of covid. Thank you. Thank you so much, my colleague. Anyone else? Mayor Pro 10 Middleton. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Once again, good evening, colleagues and everyone watching to all of our residents and citizens. Happy New Year. Fully associate myself with everything. Council and McAfee Yarrow has said with respect to the vaccines and I will not emphasize that. She stuck the dismount on that and masking as well. Madam Mayor, we started this year as one of the most enviable cities in America. Everybody wants to be in Durham. We lead in just about every list of good things for a city. They're all true, what they say about Durham and they all should be celebrated. But we also had a heartbreaking start to our new year here in the city. With respect to gunfire, that constant partner for us here in the city. And I just want to and I know, Madam Mayor, you express it all the time publicly and privately, how deeply affected you are about this issue. I want to thank you for your leadership leaning in both publicly and privately on this issue. And I know that I speak for all of us when I say our our hearts belong to the families and friends of victims, particularly our elder who was killed by celebratory gunfire, which I think is the most stupid phrase ever created. There's nothing celebratory about gunfire. It is perhaps the most irresponsible, dumbest thing you can do in part in the directness of my language. Anything you're celebrating will be undone by firing a gun randomly into the sky. It undoes, it undoes whatever you're celebrating. So I want to thank members of the DPD who tried their best to send out statements, discouraging the behavior and other leaders. And I want that family to know that it's not this business as usual for us as a city. The family of those two individuals who were gunned down in front of a hotel the start of this year as well. It's not this business as usual. It's important that they know there's a city here in City Hall. We pause and we think about them and we feel for them and we take that loss seriously as a city and as human being. So our hearts and prayers go out to those folk. But I think also, Madam Mayor, as you have entombed and said that this is this is yet another wake up call for us for how serious we need to be and approaching and addressing this issue comprehensively in this coming year as a council, as a government and as a community. And I want to thank you, Madam Mayor, and just pledge to be in lockstep with you, not only marshaling the resources of our government to attack this issue in a comprehensive way, but also calling us to task in the community as well by convening stakeholders that you have in the community by challenging us to get involved personally through volunteerism and not just what you do for your job. It's very easy in my job to claim I'm already doing enough. But I take very seriously your call for each of us to personally stay time outside of what we do. So I say all that to say, Madam Mayor and colleagues that we have a lot to be proud of as a city as we start to new year. We've got a lot of work to do. I look forward to continuing, not only having conversations about our strategy, our comprehensive strategy towards gun violence, but challenging each other and our city and all stakeholders in our city to actually do the work that the people have put us here to do. And I think they've spoken loudly and clearly the people of the city have rejected zero some game. The people of the city have rejected either or they have charged us to do everything in our power that aligns with our values that does not do violence to our values to combat this scourge on our city. And I pledge to do that in lockstep with each of you as council members and proud to be part of this body of people that have been given a sacred opportunity and obligation and blessing to lead our city as this new year starts. Thank you, Madam Mayor. God bless each of you. May God bless and protect Durham forever. Thank you, council. May I approach him, Middleton? Is there anyone else that we have in the comments tonight? Yeah, I'm James. Mayor, thank you for this moment and colleagues. I actually wasn't going to say anything, but I. I feel led to say. A couple of things. And first, I want to apologize to my colleagues who have been on council well before now because I was amongst the folks who thought you all had a magic wand that can make anything happen. Just, you know, just council make it stop, you know, but now that I'm here and I'm sitting in this chair and I'm reading the emails and I'm now having those demands directed at me directly. You know, I fortunately later learned that, you know, you guys couldn't just wave a magic wand and make it all stop, you know. And I want to take this moment to say that I welcome the complaints. I welcome the. Acknowledgements of what's happening in our community, but I want to be really frank that we have over 300,000 people in this city. And therefore, I look at that as over 300,000 partners for the issues that we're dealing with here. Now, in regards of this celebratory gunfire. Five hundred dollars, five hundred dollars and a misdemeanor, that's the max punishment. That the city can charge someone if they are caught, we can charge less or we can punish less, but that is the max that we could actually. Imped upon someone who. You know, takes this heinous act. We've lost someone before. Now we've lost someone again, allegedly by celebratory gunfire. And what I want to say to those folks that are doing it, you know, it could be you next. It could be your grandmother or your neighbor or your mom or your father or your friend, brother or sister that can get hit next. And I hope that we'll just take a moment to really, really, really realize how serious, how close and how personal this can be for you, because it is for someone already. Now, more directly to the gun violence that we're experiencing, I welcome any complaint accompanied with a solution. I don't, I didn't, unless it's surprising to me, I don't, I don't believe anyone elected me to this seat and gave me a magic wand to stop everything at the wave of it. And I don't think that folks, I don't think everybody intentionally does that, because I was, I was ignorantly doing that. You know, and, and now that I see it, I'm going to speak out on it. We have a police force that is short-term, you know, we have a police force that is short-staffed, but even said, you can't police your way out of these issues. We have so many resources, but we still don't have enough. And I just want to be really frank about this. Majority, almost all of the people who are getting killed are black. And majority, if not all, the people who are killing are black. So as a black man, I am saying we have a problem that we, as a community, need to address. And I'm a proponent of data, and the data gives me the right to say that. So I hope that no one is offended by it. But it's the truth. And I'm not sure whatever decorum that we need to go by with, you know, public records and the way we discuss these things, people are losing their lives. People are losing their lives on a daily basis. And right now, everybody loves Durham. Durham is hot, but it's going to get to the point where nobody wants to come here. We already have that reputation in some areas. Oh, don't go to Durham. So we have a lot to get together. And, you know, and Mayor colleagues, I am ready. I'm on board. I'm past the theoretical talk. I'm ready to get to real action. And that includes everybody that's in this seat, and everybody who's not. But if you can't pick up the phone and call 911 or can't report what you see, you're part of the problem. So I hope that we can get more direct about these issues. Let's stop beating around the bush and let's stop talking around the issue. We have a lot of issues to deal with. And it's starting in our black community. And as a black man, I want to be on the front line to help address this. So I welcome the ideas. I welcome the solutions. Make sure when you send your complaint, you're accompanying them with a suggestion. That 300,000 people in the city is nowhere in the world. We can't solve this. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Williams. Is there anyone else? Councilwoman Freeman? Thank you, Madam Mayor. I appreciate my colleagues and making it very clear and plain around the issues that we're facing. I do want to highlight in a different way. Some of the concerns I have, and just acknowledging that this holiday season, I know I experienced a lot of hardship and I want to send my warmest regards to those who like myself had had to deal with a kind of rough holiday season. And I want to make up, make sure that we're making space to pause and to ask people to be centered and looking after their own mental health. And acknowledging that these days, this year, this past year has been hard. And you know, my colleagues, both Mayor O'Neill and Councilmember Williams, I so do not envy either of you joining us on this Council with all that's been going on with COVID and the gun violence. But in addition to all of that comes a lot of other layers of, you know, the issues that occur in our city around evictions or housing laws or we cannot, I know it's been said a number of times, we cannot solve all the problems. But I do want to say that I'm looking very forward to the work ahead. And I know as Councilmember Williams mentioned, those 300,000 partners that we have in our city will step up to the challenge. And those 300,000 members of our community will be a force in making sure that we do find solutions that work. They're not going to come from within this Council. They're not going to come with from within the city government. But we all know that we have to work together to get to the solutions. I did want to just make sure that I pause to just thank all of our staff and all of the workers who have been on the front line throughout this entire holiday season, the end of December and into this into the beginning of January, the fire police, the EMS staff picking up trash, cleaning up yard waste. I mean, the list goes on and on. There's so many people to thank who have been who have been continuing to do the work on a consistent basis. And I just I just want to make sure that people are being mindful to keep everyone in mind as you're making the suggestions. And that rather than attacking or trying to tell folks how to do just try posing more questions and being more open and supportive and the way that you're approaching, especially our newest members on Council. I know that my colleagues that have been on Council have the experience, you know, the kind of onslaught of of of request and demands. And it's not as helpful in situations where we know that the circumstances are not something that we're going to have control over. And so I just want to just want to make that note. And to say that I do is, as Council Member Williams mentioned again, you know, welcome to the suggestions. But I do want folks to understand that we are all human. And we are all trying to do our best. We have our best interest for the city at heart. And we want to we want to get to the solutions. I will also like to end on a very high note in saying that today is the birthday of our former Mayor William B. Bell V bell. And I do want to wish him a very happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Freeman. I wanted to extend the time of remarks for Council woman Johnson and Councilman Reese, if you have any comments. Thank you for the opportunity, Madam Mayor. I don't have anything to add. I just want to wish everybody a happy new year. It's great to be back with you. Thank you, ma'am. Councilman Mayor Neal. Good evening, Mayor Neal. Thank you. And good evening, Mayor Pyrton Middleton and my colleagues in the Council. It's great to start a new year with some familiar faces and with some new faces. So I look forward to a 2022 filled with a cooperation with all of us bending our efforts, our will, our time, our passion towards solving the many problems that face our city. Look forward to getting to that work in short order. I thank you, Madam Mayor. And that's all I Thank you so much. I do want to kind of give you a little peek inside of my not quite one month as a mayor. And and give you some ideas of how I how I am viewing this new role that the citizens of Durham elected me to my holiday was not really a holiday as usual. It's been a lot of time with city business. When I think about though the work of first of all, our staff, I think first about our city manager, who who never seems to sleep. When something happens in the city, especially on these really bad and trying situations, we get a text and that could be two o'clock, there'd be a four o'clock that could be in the morning could be all day, depending on what's going on. And so you I spend a lot of time hoping that I wouldn't hear that ding. It's kind of praying that the phone wouldn't ding at two o'clock in the morning or four o'clock in the morning. But it did. And it has done that several times over this less than 30 days and not with the news. So my heart goes out to all of those families that have lost loved ones to this gun violence. So I spent a lot of time thinking about the holiday season for them. And when you get that kind of news, what it does to a family. And I think about the people who have to go our police officers and IMS workers. And, you know, there's somebody in this city working right now and they work all night long. And so I say thanks to them. And it disturbs me, though, when they get demands from different people to do different things and the stand in a tone that does not even recognize them as being human, you know, and it doesn't recognize that they are employees who if they do some of the things that are asked of them in the time that they're asked that they risk being fired themselves. So I would ask, please, that you remember that they're not just names. These are people who really love their jobs. As I've seen, I've not seen one city worker who has who has not shown the love that they have for the city by what they do. So remember that they are human. And remember that you need to talk to them just like you would talk to your family member when you ask them to do things. Just remember that they're here. They volunteer. They filled out an application and said that I want to come and work for the city of Durham. And not many of us do that. But here they are. And we have a well run city. So I say that on that end and I also say and reiterate what my colleagues have always have already said. And what I'm really feeling and that is that we are just human and we're going to need everybody if we're going to deal with the problem of violence. I get a lot of emails, very long emails of people saying we need to do this and we need to do that and not put it off on the state or put it off on this. But if it could have been done, it would have been done by now. So in twenty twenty two, I'm in this city council, we are offering a new approach. And that is that we work together as a community. You are your brothers. Keep them. And when you do nothing, you're part of the problem. So we need help. So when you send us these long emails, we can be performative. I know how to go out and I can make great speeches. But a lot of the things that are happening, where we're trying to deal with these issues, they're not going to be televised. And you won't read about them. But hopefully you will begin to see the results of some of the things that we're doing. A lot of people who are operating in this space, they don't have a trust for government. And so they're not willing to come open. But believe me, when I tell you, there are a lot of people who are out there who are helping and who are making progress. Where before now, they may not have been willing to. So I asked, think about how you're going to give time back to your community, to the public at large. And when you send us these long emails, I'm going to read them. I may not be able to respond to them, but I will certainly look for where you say, and I will commit to doing X. I'm not ever going to be on the TV a lot. That's not my space. So you won't see me a lot in that area. But I've been put in in 12 hour days. I'm going to have to cut that out a little bit because you've got to live. But I'm committed because I know that in Durham, North Carolina, we can change the narrative. And that's why I'm here. And that's why I think each of us are here because we want to change the narrative and we're committed to doing that. But we need that same commitment from you, Durham, North Carolina. I was hoping for it. No deaths this year and it happened within the first 24 to 48 hours. We can do better. It is right now confined basically to the black community. And we have some internal work that we've got to do and acknowledge and not walk away from it fearfully and think it's just them. No, it's all of us. It's all of us. And so I ask you to think about it. So I'm coming back and I'm going to ask. So when you ask me what I'm going to do about violent crime in Durham, expect the question, what are you going to do about violent crime in Durham? And that will make all the difference when we all do our part. So with that being said, let us now move on to the business to hand. First, I will turn to our city manager. Like I said, the lady that never sleeps. City manager Paige loves who absolutely loves her job, too. She absolutely loves it. And see if she has any priority items for us tonight. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Madam Mayor Pro Tem Middle. I need your audio. Go ahead and start again. I'm sorry. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton and members of the Durham City Council. I do have one priority item for your consideration this evening. It is agenda item number six, which is a contract with legal aid of North Carolina to administer the Durham Expunction and Restoration, the DEA program attachment number eight was added to provide information on how the DEA program is being used by Durham residents to address expungement and driver's license, restoration needs originating in other North Carolina counties. That is all I have for you this evening, Madam Mayor. Thank you, City Manager. I will now turn and recognize our city attorney for any priority items that she may have. I turn her ring for us. Happy New Year. Good evening, Mayor Neal. Happy New Year to the Council. It's good to see you all in 2022. And I'm looking forward to the year taking a turn and improving. The city attorney's office does not have any priority items this evening, but it's good to be with you. Thank you so much. Good to see you. And to our clerk, I will recognize her for any priority items that she may have. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem and Council members. I did want to mention that I skipped over inadvertently have Councilmember Caballero. I wanted to make sure that she is here and included in the role. I have no priority items this evening, but thank you for asking and Happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year. All right. Our next order of business. We are a consent agenda and the consent agenda consists of items that the council has previously considered in a work session. All items on the consent agenda may be approved by a single vote of the council. Items may be removed from the consent agenda by a council member or a member of the public. And those items will be considered separately at the end of the meeting tonight. So we will now go through each item on the consent agenda. Item number one is approval of city council minutes. Item number two is a resolution designating the National Incident Management System, UNI-MS as the standard for incident management. Item number three is amendment to contract number one, eight, three, five, three. It is a three year grant contract with legal aid of North Carolina to provide legal representation to residents facing eviction. Item number four, the multifamily housing facility to be known as Hardy Street Apartments in the city of Durham. Item number five is the option contract of Southside Revitalization Phase three, LP for the third phase of development at the loss at Southside. Item number seven, I believe. Item number six is the contract with the legal aid of North Carolina to administer Durham expansion and restoration gear program. Item number seven is the capital improvement plan ordinance amendment associated with the Jordan Lake Western intake partnership. Item number eight, professional engineering services contract with Brown and Caldwell Inc. for the Western intake partnership environmental permitting project. Item nine, the professional engineering services contract with CDM Smith Inc. for the Western intake partnership regional water treatment facility preliminary engineering project. Item number 10, be it report, November, 2021. Item 11, the cooperative group purchase contract. Five knuckle boom refuse trucks. Item number 12, change order number four for the construction contract with Geo Services South East Incorporated for CM Herndon Road Park, the soccer field conversion project. Item 13, 2022 blue benevolence grant project ordinance. Item 14, the US Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Assistant. Twenty twenty one local solicitation. Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistant grant project ordinance. An item 15, the voice over internet protocol, Cisco Maintenance and License Agreement with Presidio Network Solutions. At this time, I'd like to entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. So moved. OK, OK. It is now been motioned by Councilwoman Freeman and seconded by Councilwoman Caballero and I would now ask Madam Clerk to call the roll for the vote. Madam Mayor, O'Neill. Yes, a mere. Potem, mere Pro Tem Middleton. I go there. Councilmember Caballero. I. Councilmember Freeman. I. Councilmember Johnson. I. Councilmember Reese. I. And Councilmember Williams. I. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk. The eyes have it and the consent agenda is approved unanimously. We now turn to the next matter on our agenda. Which will be public hearings, I believe. The general business agenda, public hearings. So we have two matters for these zoning public hearings. And the first will be number 17, the consolidated annexation, twenty two eleven page road. We also have two speakers for that. But first, we will hear from our staff and that, I believe, is Mr. Culture, Good evening. Mayor O'Neill, their Pro Tem Middleton and city council members. Any culture here with the planning department? Before we begin, staff would like to state for the record that all planning department hearing items have been advertised and noticed in accordance with state and local law and affidavits for those notices are on file with the planning department. One quick reminder, the hearing for this case was opened at this December six twenty twenty one meeting and continued until tonight's meeting. And just for pressure, I'll provide a quick overview of a request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation and initial zoning map change was received from private landowners Warren Mitchell and David Durham for one parcel land tolling ten point one five acres and located at twenty two eleven page road. The annexation petition case BDG twenty one zero zero zero seven is for a contiguous expansion of the existing corporate limits. The current zoning is residential rural. The applicant proposes a change this designation to office institutional with the development plan or OID under case Z twenty one zero zero zero three to allow for construction of up to sixty seven townhouse units. The property is currently designated office and on the future land use map are flown the proposed zoning is consistent with the designated future land use if proposed zoning is the proposed zoning is approved. There will be no change to the future land use map designation and the request would become effective on March thirty first twenty twenty two twenty twenty two excuse me. The associated zoning request was heard by the Planning Commission on October twelfth twenty twenty twenty one and received an unfavorable recommendation by the vote of seven to five at the Planning Commission's hearing the applicant did make an additional proffer for a financial commitment to the dedicated housing fund and the amount of sixteen thousand seven hundred fifty dollars as seen in the tax commitment section on the development plan and attachment eleven. There are three motions required for this application. The first is to adopt an ordinance annexing the property in the city's jurisdiction and entering entering into a utility extension agreement. The second is to approve the zoning ordinance and the third is to approve the consistency statement. Thank you very much. Staff and the applicants would be available for any questions. I now declare this public hearing open. You have heard the report from staff. And first of all, I will ask if there are any questions for staff from members of the council. And as I mentioned earlier, we do have two speakers who are proponents as well. They are protein. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just real quick by by right, how many home homes can be what can they build here by right? Is it between ten to twenty single family homes? I think I'm talking to Danny. I'm sorry. What can we build? Yeah, no problem. Happy New Year. Let me see. It's currently our zoning. So at about ten acres and it's in the suburban tier and there are no overlay districts. So I think the average is I think about one point four units per acre. So they could probably get we do quick calculations on that. What we say is it's a ten point one, five point four. They could do about seven units. Seven seven seven units. OK. All right. Thank you. That's my question. I appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Any other members of council with questions for staff? We do have two speakers for this item. The first is Warren Mitchell, Mr. Mitchell, followed by Mr. Zach Shipman. You each have three minutes of peace. Mr. Mitchell. Good evening. Good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Well, thank you, Madam Mayor Neal, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton and the city council members. I'm Warren Mitchell and I live at 104 Amberwood Run and Chapel Hill. I purchased this property for the purpose of building a flex building. I submitted a proposal to change this property to light industrial zoning in 2019. There is existing light industrial zoning on three sides and an undeveloped residential zoning on the fourth side. Staff did not support that proposal. And one reason given was the undeveloped residential property on the backside of the property before. They also said that they did not support changing the future land use map. So after the planning commission heard and unanimously voted to deny that proposal, I pulled the application. That was at their meeting right when the pandemic started. That was in 2020. Based upon the staff and planning commission comments on our first rezoning proposal, it's clear that townhomes would be the best use for this property. Staff supports our application and they stated this in their report. The proposed zoning provides additional housing options in close proximity to jobs in an area lacking existing housing options. So that's a good example of what makes townhomes a perfect use for this property. Number one, because it's compatible with the adjacent residential zoning on the backside of the property, this was one of the reasons why staff didn't support our first zoning application. Number two, it fits within the existing future land use map. No comp plan revision required. Number three, there are dozens of businesses across the street and within walking distance that are near by employment opportunities. Number four, two blocks to the south within walking distance is a retail center with drugstore, grocery store and restaurants that provide all the essential needs of future residents. This is at the corner of Page Road and TW Agender. There are sidewalks that lead down to that commercial center. Number five, there's numerous townhomes, single family and apartments close proximity, even though the adjacent parcels are light industrial. Then the last point is that residents of the property can catch a go-durham bus just two blocks to the south on TW Alexander. We are all aware that the cost of home ownership is rising in Durham and the triangle. Some of it is based on increases in the cost of materials and labor. But the single largest reason for this increase is that there's not enough homes available. Experts all agree that more homes need to be approved and constructed if we're to keep the price of homes from rising more. Our proposal will deliver 67 home ownership opportunities. In summary, we hope that you will find it easy to support this project. This property is owned rural residential so it should be re-zoned to a higher density use. We have proposed a medium density residential use explaining why townhomes are the best use for this property. Staff agrees with our application and there was no neighborhood opposition to the project. Nobody came to the neighborhood meeting and nobody spoke against the project at the planning commission. There are no traffic concerns being created by the project and Page Road is not a particularly busy road. We are creating 67 home ownership opportunities that will help to slow the increasing cost of homes in Durham. Thank you for your consideration tonight. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. We will now turn to Mr. Zach Shipman. Good evening, Madam Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, members of Durham City Council. Happy New Year to you all. We appreciate your consideration at this case tonight. My name is Zach Shipman with Shipman Engineering. I put together the development plan and have been working with the applicant, Mr. Mitchell, as we have pushed this forward through the rezoning process. The original case for this property was brought to Planning Commission back in March of 2020, which proposed a rezoning to light industrial. At the time, staff was not in favor of the project, and the Planning Commission voted unanimously to deny that rezoning petition. After that denial, the applicant withdrew the petition, which is why it never came before City of Durham. There were three primary reasons for the Planning Commission to deny the project. As Mr. Mitchell mentioned, the first was that there was no development plan proposed. Secondly, staff did not support the change of the future land use map from office to industrial, and they had determined that the office designation was more consistent with the adjacent land uses as a transition to the adjoining residentially zoned land. Thirdly, staff did not support the light industrial zoning that was proposed for that case with this proximity to residential land uses. And so in response to that denial, the applicant elected to withdraw the petition to rework the project to address the commission's concerns. And the current proposal before you tonight, we've attempted to do just that. The 67-townhome configuration comes with a plan, which is one of the concerns that Planning Commission had. It does not change the future land use map. We retain the original land use designation and the zoning proposal aligns with staff feedback for the office zoning district. As Mr. Mitchell mentioned, Planning Commission heard this case back on October 12th. There were a few concerns that they brought up during that hearing that we'd like to address. The first was that they were concerned about the development of townhomes in the O&I zoning districts. Just a reminder, the UDO does allow for townhomes as an allowed use in the O&I district. And since it matches the future land use map, we believe this is a suitable use. The second was a concern about connectivity to adjacent sites. And after Planning Commission, the applicant met with the property owner to the south, who is developing a warehouse property immediately to the south. That construction effort in the rear of that property has a secured storage and loading area that's separated from this site by a six to eight foot vertical grade separation. And so even though we had proposed a vehicular connection to that property, there simply was just no possible way to do that. Additionally to the north, there is a existing riparian buffer and jurisdictional stream. And the properties to the north are developed with several warehouses there that do not have roadway stubs to this property. And so to provide a roadway stub to the north would incur significant environmental impacts as well as not be able to be utilized. So the only feasible stub is to the east, and we have provided a vehicular stub to that property for future connectivity. One of the last concerns Planning Commission had was about affordability and unit pricing. And we'd just like to say that we provided a very rough valuation as part of our annexation petitions submittal. The intention is that these townhomes would be attainable for entry level and move up buyers. And in addition, the applicant has proffered a one-time contribution to the property. And we have also provided a $250 per unit for $16,750 as Mr. Kulture mentioned previously. Thank you. Appreciate it. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item? Item number 17. All right. I now declare the public hearing to be closed and the matter is back before the council. Are there any further questions or any comments from my colleagues on this item? Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Good evening, I'm Mr. Mitchell and Shipman. Happy New Year and thank you for being with us. Do you have a, what are your anticipated, I know it's not a perfect sign, but anticipated price points in the townhomes. I probably should defer that to Mr. Mitchell. Okay. Okay, I was muted. This is Warren. The value of the existing houses and townhouses in this area of the city are modestly priced. There, a lot of that has to do with the size. I was surprised when I decided to look at the home prices and townhome prices there's at least seven townhome communities close by. And they started the twos even for resale. So they're not even with the increased values. They're not as high as I thought. That's the market we're going for, which is not twos, but to try and be in this market, which is this part of the city, they are considered attainable for workforce housing. And that's, that was the intent for this project was to be housing values. All right. Thank you. Thank you for that. And we appreciate it to proffer to the affordable housing fund. Was there any contemplation given to during public schools? Well, yes, there was. There was one student being added to the school system. And so we did not make that proffer, but tonight I certainly would have no problem doing that. I know. Well, it would be appreciated. Okay. We would have, we'd be happy to make that standard contribution. Yes. Thank you. Culture's hand is raised as well. I'll yield, man. Okay. I'll yield. Thank you. Yes, mayor. Just for the record, I think the analysis yielded three students. For this side. Thank you. Thank you. I don't think I've ever heard one before. Three actually sounds kind of low as well, but, but, but I trust the algorithm or equation you folk use, but, but you did hear the representation that they are willing to make an additional proffer to DPS. So I think that's all I have for, and then I guess we can nail down with that amount is and get the proper language. I'm codified, but I think that's all I have for now. Madam mayor, and I'll yield to my colleagues. I do want to say, but well, let me just go ahead and finish now because I won't need to talk later. You went from the staff not supporting it in the planning commission, not supporting it to staff supporting it. And a bunch of planning commissioners supporting it. So I want to, I want to congratulate you on your, your willingness to be sensitive to what was put to you then. I'm not forecasting how the votes ultimately going to go, but I think it is worth noting that going from no, no staff support and no planning commission support to almost 50% of planning commission support in the staff thumbs up. I also want to note the BPAC comments as well as the planning commission comments are very helpful, but the bike and, and pet people also, I thought their comments were, were helpful and useful. I am, if I had to choose between some large, expensive single family homes here, numbering maybe 10 or 11, whatever the number is relative to 67 town homes. If they're comp, the comps are any guidance, you know, in the $200,000 range. I would, I would choose a ladder. So again, not forecasting how the votes ultimately going to go, but I didn't want to put that in record as to where I am right now. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, colleagues. Anyone else have any comments? All right. Councilman, Councilwoman Freeman, followed by a councilwoman Cabrero, followed by a councilman, Williams will go in that order. Thank you. I just wanted to ask, you know, just to clarify, the funds go to DPS foundation. Just speaking. Making that point. And then, um, for the 250 per unit, how did you get to that number? Um, Well, I checked around and I listened to some other, um, consultants to see what was going on. I listened to some other, um, consultants to see what other projects had been donating. And then I heard, um, last month you, you heard a, um, the proposal for the apartments at, at a Martin Luther King, junior Parkway and at Fayetteville and they, they proposed 50,000, which was about 285 per apartment. So, um, uh, not to be outdone, I would like to raise. Our proffer. And so it was 250 and I would, I would like to raise it to 300. For unit. That's helpful. Thank you. And that's, that would be, um, that would be 20,000 100. We can get closer to building one unit. Um, Yeah. Yes. And I, and I, you know, I, I thought a lot about this. Um, you know, a lot of people can afford the, the, the rents, but the down payment, I think can be so hard. And so, you know, if you can, uh, get someone the down payments that they need, it seems like a really good, um, cause to do that. Thank you. And I'm, I'm seeing some head nods or some shakes around the DPS foundation. I might be incorrect, but I think that it read in, um, the ordinance around the proffers that it went to DPS foundation. No. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I stand corrected. Council. Thank you, Madam mayor. Just real quick. Um, and I just had a quick question for staff on, uh, like the, I guess it's attachment 12 and in this part of the packet, which the community goals and objectives, I think we've raised it before and maybe, and I've like reloaded, reloaded. There's nothing there on the side that says explain. Place explanation of space below it like has the form that the staff is asking from the applicant. I'm just confused about the purpose of that and I was just wondering, maybe I'm missing something. Uh, excuse me, council member, uh, a couple of years, this is Danny cultural. Let me pull that up, uh, in the, in the packet and see, uh, I think the last meeting, uh, they're about a, uh, excuse me. I think in the last meeting, there might have been some confusion. I think when it goes to the, uh, on base that maybe some confusion that some of that gets, uh, uh, in the translation, it maybe get taken out or something. I remember we brought it up. Yeah. I thought maybe we were gonna see it. And then I didn't see it. So then I was confused and thought maybe I missed it. So I appreciate it. Um, yeah, let me see. And I think we'll need to look at that in the future, just see how we can rectify that as well. I think before you used this template, you all were just sharing in the memo, how many of the things they were hitting, even if it could just get the overall language, I'm fine with that. I appreciate the more detailed thing, but if it ends up being something that we just, it's going to take a little bit of time. I think that would be super helpful. Yeah. I know in the memos, we are definitely putting in there the, the ones that aren't being addressed, we're, we're kind of extrapolating on those a little more and explaining those, but, uh, see it, what I have on the on base when I pull it up, it is actually showing the explanation on those. Yeah. I just, I appreciate it. I just wanted to raise it because I, you know, a lot of times I just have to do them on the date of the sale. And I just I just wanted to raise it on the date. So, you know, I guess it's just us like our thing is just wonky and sometimes it's for everybody. And I just want to, yeah. So that, yeah. I just pulled that up. And it is actually showing the applicant's explanation of these. Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you. That was my only question. You're welcome. Council. Williams, please at this point. I'm sorry, Madam mayor. I wanted to, I think the issue may be a little technological. You all you, are you using iLegislate to look at it? Yes, we are. Okay, I think that's the issue. So we'll work on that behind the scenes. I apologize again, but you know, it gets ported through a couple of different applications. Yeah, I appreciate it, Sarah. And even if we just get that line with some of it, that would be really helpful. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Councilwoman Williams. Thank you, Madam Mayor and colleagues. Since I'm new to this, I have a couple of questions to Mr. Warren. Mr. Mitchell, could you, what was based on what you initially submitted and then, and now what you're submitting? What was your inspiration behind that? Well, excellent question. So the inspiration was that I have an industrial building in Raleigh. And I know the need for industrial and a lot of industrial, really, which is can include some warehouse or some flex buildings where you have an office space and then you might have a small contractor using it. So based upon what was across the road, they seem to be doing very well. I have lots of various businesses. And so that was my initial idea and the properties that they sent are industrial. But as soon as I heard that the reception was rather cold towards that application, and then, of course, I realized the demand is so strong for home ownership. Durham, it's been a marvelous job with their bringing people downtown. But most of these are apartments and they just won't. They they're not going to help with the price of home purchasing. So home ownership look like the best the best use for this property. Thank you. Thank you for that. How I'm going to take you to get through this process? Well, probably a year, the first go around and then maybe six months of debating what to do with the property. And then probably another year of of the townhome application. Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm glad you chose homes since we have such a shortage. I used to live across the street here. I'm looking at the I'm also trying to better understand the the arguments and some of the planning commission comments. And I see this often lack of development plan detail. So I'm going to look more into that. But also hear the same questions in regards to proffers. So I'm going to put you on the spot here and I'm going to ask you as someone who's applying for this rezoning. Let's let's not necessarily just be stuck in the proffer to the affordable housing fund and public schools. Trust me, I'm glad that we're we have those incorporated. But as someone who's applying, what is it that you would need to where we wouldn't have to? And again, this may be putting you on the spot, but what is it that you would need to where we wouldn't have to ask for those things? But if you were to apply, what what makes it the perfect scenario for you to incorporate building in Durham, where it's an affordable market is, you know, providing funds to the to our schools and the affordable housing and yeah, what would be the perfect scenario? I'm going somewhere with this. Yes. Well, I had not thought of it in that context. It was I don't have a lot of experience doing work in Durham, but I did believe it was a part of the process. But that I what you're saying is what changes to the process could be made to where it was. Maybe are you thinking density bonus? Is that one of the thoughts you had about this? And it says I'm just I we have a housing problem in Durham, and I appreciate you bringing more, you know, helping us to solve this issue. But I'm going to start asking these questions to each person in this building, because I want to look at the process from external as well as internal. So I just wanted to hear your perspective on that as I'm doing my homework here. So it's a bit of an open ended question. Just wanted to hear what you would offer toward that. And yeah, I appreciate it. I'll give it some thought and I will get back with to you on that. I'd appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. That'll be all matter, man. Any of the comments from Council? No questions. I do. OK, Councilwoman Freeman. I was going to share that if my colleagues needed to see the comments, they are on the website on the public side. I know it's not in Granicus for us to see, but you can see all of the comments on the case from if you enter in through the clerk's page to the agenda. Thank you for that. I do have one question for either Mr. Shipman or Mr. Mitchell. Do you have a numerical value for of your price point? I heard the question Mayor Pro Tem and asked about the price of these units, but I don't know if I heard a numerical value that you have in mind for these units. Well, the you know, it's kind of hard to forecast that far out, but I would say the best indication is just what is available in this area. This is the and I'm sorry, I just don't have a number to give you tonight. I am I am like Councilman Williams. I am definitely learning in this process, and I know there are a lot of folk out there learning. As well. And so there's some points of clarity that I need to have in my mind. Yes, Durham does have a housing issue, but we have more of a affordable housing issue as well. So it's important to me that I understand when the folk are asking for my vote, what I'm voting on, especially when it comes to price, because price is the most important factor when you talk about buying a home. And so that's that's what I'm looking for is, you know, what and I think that most people would what is going to be the price of these units, Mr. Culture. Yes, Mayor O'Neill, I would just like to clarify that although that this could change initially when the applicant submitted their annexation petition, they do have to provide a just a basis of a price point for the fiscal impact analysis that goes to our budget management office and in that they did provide a basic price point of around three hundred and five thousand dollars per unit for the total build out of the development. Thank you for that, Michelle. And just to follow up on what Mr. Culture said, that information is in the zoning map change report, which is attachment 10 on page four in addition to comparable kind of prices around the area for comparison purposes. I've read a lot of information, Miss Young, so please forgive me. If I did not pick up on that specific one, I want to ask. Thank you. Here to help. Thank you so much. Right. Are there any other comments? Yes. OK. Mayor Pro Tem, I think I saw your hand first followed by Councilwoman Freeman. Very quickly. Thank you, Madam Mayor, for the follow up question on the pricing. I relented on on my question because I thought, Mr. Mitchell, you can correct me that he went on record. He did actually allude to the comps in the area and gave the price two hundred about two. I think he said about two hundred thousand in the area. I'm always kind of intrigued by the difference in the proposed price points that developers put for build out the difference between that number and the comps in the area and what they actually turn out to actually be when they when they go on the market. But it's always, I think, useful and helpful to at least get a sense on the record of what developers anticipate them being. And based on comps and based on trends in the building market. But I did, Mr. Mitchell, again, you can correct me. I thought you said I know you said you don't know you can't protect that far out, but you did represent that you're pretty confident that the comps in the area currently are pretty much a reliable guidepost. I'm paraphrasing. So that's correct. A hundred percent. The the I've, you know, I found a few starting it too. In the two hundreds, they were not two hundred thousand, but in the two hundreds. And then the majority were in the three hundreds. But that's that's the market in this area is twos and threes more in the threes, but that's what we're shooting for. Thank you for that. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Councilwoman Freeman, thank you. And similarly, I was just going to point out that I think to the point that Mr. Mitchell, I was going to ask if if the reason you were hesitant was because that comp was based on kind of earlier this last year and knowing that we have a very strong market now that number could be in the force as you see home sales in this month and next month just by the market itself. And so there's no there's no short fire way to say what the price will be until the property is built out. And so it's hard to base it on that. Hard to know what your cost for the roads and utilities will be, how much grading and those surprises. So, yeah, there's there's a lot of unknowns at this point still, but we don't have plans for a clubhouse and pool. It's really too small for that. So it's not it's not going to have an expensive amenities but to drive the price up. So it's just going to be homes. Thank you. And I would just say, I think just based on the conversation this evening, I feel comfortable moving forward with the. Like with the affordable housing proper and the, you know, the DPS proper as well as them shifting from light industrial to sixty seven town homes with the shortage we have. I will say that this specific area doesn't have a very like environmentally sensitive, you know, concern. And so, you know, the tree preservation is there. They're they're hitting all of the marks on most of the things that I would look at around whether it was open space or what have you. I know that we haven't discussed and which is what I'm looking forward to having a conversation around what it looks like to have our developers support our open space planning and and even if they were to be able to support our youth develop like youth development supports and in the in the sense of, you know, beyond just school, there's actual, you know, other activities that kids are involved in. And so if there's some conversation around that, I think to Councilmember Williams question, I think that those things that we can lay out beforehand so that folks understand that these are these are part of that that item that is item number 12 spreadsheet that we're seeing. And so as we can put layout as much of what it is we'd like to see in the developments that come to Durham, especially around housing. Where there is an affordable housing included, I think it's going to be important to make sure that we as a council decide on what that looks like. And so I look forward to those conversations. Thank you. Councilmember Williams. Yeah, it just just to close in on that. I have my lot of question, my line of questioning is for us to be better partners. I we have to we have to develop the city. And I think that the more communication and the better partnering we go into developing the city, the better for all of us. It's a win-win. So I just, you know, I don't look at. I don't I don't want to have an adversarial relationship with developers. And as I'm reading back and looking at videos, looking at notes, that appears that way in some cases. So I think the more communication we have, the better understanding and expectations of our standards culturally here in Durham will be will be at the forefront. And if I'm someone that's going to build in Durham, I know that I can partner with the city to adhere to, you know, what the market says versus what the culture is in need of, as well as me as a business owner. So I'm looking forward to having more conversations with the folks who are going to build the city, putting our expectations up up front. And and and getting to solving our issue of affordability. So thank you, Mr. Mitchell. Thank you, too. All right. There is nothing else we will move to our motions and I'm prepared to entertain motion. I'm sorry. Yeah, this is one of the last questions. Mr. Culture, did you did you capture precise language for the DPS proffer? Thank you for that question, Mayor Porteo Melton, because I was just getting ready to raise my hand and ask, we did not get a monetary amount for that proffer. Before we probably do that. Correct. And and I'm caught a little flat footed on that with a thousand dollars per student to be adequate for the mayor pro tem Middleton. Yeah. Sounds good. Well, I'm happy to do that. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Also, I'm a couple of hours. I thought I saw a finger go well, which is pointing, which doesn't make any sense, because it's a screen, but I was pointing to mayor pro tem Middleton. OK, thank you so much. He had a stand raise. I appreciate you all helping me. Council memories, you have something you want to say? How was one I was going to hear, Neil? Thank you for for calling on me and I want to thank my colleagues. As my colleagues know, and folks who are watching at home or in person, sometimes I like to go first and sometimes I don't. This time I didn't mostly because I think this particular project, although it didn't receive a recommendation from the Planning Commission, positive recommendation, I think it seems fairly noncontroversial and I want to appreciate my colleagues for exploring kind of the contours of the process that we have put in place. The various proffers that we have come to look forward to from developers on a voluntary perspective and then especially Councilmember Williams for talking more broadly about how we can how we can change the process itself to get more of the outcomes that we desire. Councilmember Williams asked the developer how long this had taken from start to finish, and I think that is a telling question. Well, part of it was they came up with a bad idea in the Planning Commission. Let them know that. So they went back to the drawing board. But I think more broadly, I think it makes sense to start looking for ways to incentivize what we want and in there, there, there. I would hope there are ways to do that within the process itself in terms of stringlining. And I know that's something that our staff staff is periodically looked at. I know that we are in the process of rewriting our comprehensive plan that can help kind of inform some of this decision. So I think everybody for the really good questions and conversations I plan to support them as you're tonight, it is disappointing that that there are no affordable units in this project. Having said that, it is it is great to see the various proffers being made. And I think the the proponents at the very beginning laid out the best case for it, the proximity to transit and retail. And the fact that as I think as I think the mayor Pro Tem said, this is a lot better than the than the small number of single family hopes that would be allowed by right. So I intend to support the measure. That's all I had. Thank you, madam. Anyone else before we move to our motions? All right. At this time, I'd like to entertain motion number one to adopt an ordinance and next in NC 55 and Hobson. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm on the wrong one. Motion number one is to adopt an ordinance and next in twenty to eleven page road into the city of Durham, effective March 31st, twenty twenty two and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Lauren D. Mitchell and David Durham. Is there a motion? Oh, second. All right. It has been moved by Councilman Williams and seconded by Councilwoman Freeman. And now I will ask Madam Clerk, if you will, please call the roll for the vote. Mayor O'Neill. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton. I will die. Councilmember Caballero. Aye. Councilmember Freeman. Aye. Councilmember Johnson. Aye. Councilmember Reese. Aye. Councilmember Williams. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Madam Clerk. The eyes have it and motion number one passes unanimously. We will now move to motion number two. And I will entertain a motion for that to adopt an ordinance amending the unified development ordinance by taking property out of the residential district and establishing the same as office and institutional with the development plan. And is there a motion? Second. Yeah. That was I heard it's been moved by Freeman Councilwoman Freeman and seconded by Mr. Williams. I will ask our clerk if she will call the roll for the vote. Mayor O'Neill. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton. I will die. Councilmember Caballero. Aye. Councilmember Freeman. Aye. Councilmember Johnson. Aye. Councilmember Reese. Aye. Councilmember Williams. Aye. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk. The eyes have it and the motion passes unanimously and I will now entertain motion number three and that is to adopt a consistency statement as required by general North Carolina General Statue one sixty D that's six zero five. Is there a move back in? It has been moved by Councilman Williams and seconded by Councilman Freeman. I will ask this time if Madam Clerk will call the roll for the vote. Mayor O'Neill. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton. I will die. Councilmember Caballero. Aye. Councilmember Freeman. Aye. Councilmember Johnson. Aye. Councilmember Reese. Aye. And Councilmember Williams. Aye. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk. At this time the eyes have it and motion number three is approved unanimously. Thank you, everybody. You're quite welcome and have a happy new year. Happy new year to you. Thank you as well. Thank you. We now turn to item number nineteen which is the consolidated annexation of NC 55 and Hobson. I would note that we have eight speakers and when we get to that point I will call on Mr. Neil Nosh first, but first we will hear from staff, Ms. Sarah Young. Good evening. Before I turn it over to Mr. Kultra to deliver the staff report, I just want to take a moment and let you all know that this is Mr. Kultra's last evening with us. He will be enjoying a well deserved retirement after this gig. He's been with us with the department for about 16 years, I think, and doing mostly slight plans and was gracious enough to hop over to the land use side for the past year or two. So I would be remiss if I didn't thank him for his excellent work. I know I may be a little bit out of line taking this little personal privilege, but I think it's important to acknowledge the folks that make things work behind the scenes. And Danny has certainly been a lot of glue to the rezoning process lately. So thank you. And I'll turn it over to Danny for the staff report. Well, I wasn't expecting that, but whatever. Thank you so much. Wow. Thank you. Bye, ladies. Thank you for your retirement. Well, my wife says it's long overdue, but you know. So if mama's not happy, nobody's happy. Well deserved. Well deserved. So anyway, given that, Danny, cultural, the planning department wants more. So this is a request for utility extension agreement. Voluntary annexation and initials is on the map change, which was received from Joel Scannell, Scannell Properties, LLC, for 10 parcels of land totaling 254.124 acres, including right of way, located at the 6,000 block of South Austin Avenue and NC Highway 55. The annexation petition case BDG 21-0005 is for a contiguous expansion of the existing corporate limits. The applicant is seeking annexation to allow for the construction of unspecified industrial uses. The current zoning is industrial light, IL, residential rule, RR, and commercial neighborhood, CN. The site is also located within the Falls Jordan District B or FJB watershed overlay. The applicant proposes to change the designation of four of the 10 parcels from RR and CN to industrial light with no change to the watershed overlay. No change is requested for six of those parcels, which are currently zoned IL. The parcels currently zoned IL are designated as industrial on the future land use map. The parcels currently zoned RR and CN are designated very low density residential and industrial on the flume. The proposed IL zoning is consistent with the designated future land use inconsistent, excuse me, with the designated future land use of very low density residential. So if the proposed zoning is approved, staff recommends a change in the flume to designated the property as industrial. The associated zoning request Z21-0009 proposed IL zoning for the four parcels currently zoned RR and CN and was heard by the Planning Commission on October 12th, 2021 and failed to receive favorable recommendation by a vote of zero to 12. The Planning Commission found that the ordinance request is not consistent with the adopted comprehensive plan and believes the request is not reasonable and not in public interest based on comments received at the public hearing and information in the staff report. There are three motions required for this application. The first is to adopt an ordinance annexing the property into the city's jurisdiction and entering in the utility extension agreement. The second is to approve the zoning ordinance and the third is to approve the consistency statement. Thank you very much. Staff and the applicants will be available for any questions. You have heard the report from staff who's retiring and now I'm now going to declare this public hearing open. First start, there are any questions for staff from members of the council? Councilman Rees. Thank you, Mayor O'Neill. I'm Mr. Peltier. Right, we're gonna miss you a ton. Thank you. You've been here as long as I've been here and so I've come to rely on your really excellent information at these hearings. So thank you for all your work and your career here and wish you the best of luck as you enter the next stage of your life. Thank you so much. I know all about that, I'm not happy. I know all about that, so I hear you. But I did have a question. Certainly. This proposal was rejected by the Planning Commission unanimously. In the face of that, and between that time and the time when it arrived at our doorstep, what changes did the proponent make to this proposal? They did not make any changes. This is still a straight rezoning. There was never any development plan proposed. It was presented to the Planning Commission as a straight rezoning, and that is what is being presented now. Okay, great to know. Thank you. That's all I have, Madam Mayor. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem, followed by Councilwoman Freeman. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Ms. Kulture. Congratulations on your retirement. I'm so appreciative of just your expertise and your temperament as well in these meetings over the years and for your knowledge. May you enjoy this next chapter. I know you go with the thanks of a grateful city to your retirement, so thanks much. Remind me if there is, I know development plans are expensive, but is there some, it reminded me there's a device or mechanism or instrument that doesn't go as far as a development plan, but can be presented forecasting what you plan to do. Seems like I remember there's another instrument that's available not quite as expensive as a full development plan, but, or am I totally off base? Seems like I'm remembering. There are, there are three avenues. You can go with a straight rezoning with no development plan. You can go with a text only development plan, which is only restricts the uses of a zoning. So text only, it is restricted just to the uses. So you could actually, in other words, specify uses that you want to limit or you could specify uses that you want to restrict. And there could be some parameters. If it's interpreted that way by the planning director, some parameters based on those uses. I won't go into details, but there could be some circumstances related to those uses that you could limit as well. But it would be text that would be adopted with the ordinance. Gotcha. And then a full, and a full blown graphic and textual development plan. Gotcha. I appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Coltrane, for getting me a new year and congratulations to you. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Also, I'm a Freeman. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I appreciate it. I'm glad that Councilman Middleton opened up the conversation. And I just really wanted to be real specific in asking Mr. Coltrane before you retire. Could it be possible that this site could be used as a commercial towards like a vape shop and internet cafe? There are certain commercial uses that couldn't be allowed in a light and industrial use. Yes. I would need to look really quickly to see what commercial uses would be allowed in our use table. Okay. And Justin, and I know that down the line, they would, if this were approved, that they would need to be a development plan once they started the work on the site. But as far as, I guess, making an approval tonight, it would be helpful to have some guidance on what the limitations might be because I don't feel really confident. I think I'm with the planning commission on zero to 12, you know, it's kind of hard to say. I'm also concerned, like I'm not quite sure what the property is behind this property, but I'm noting that it says just United States government or just United States of America. And I'm assuming that that's federal land. That is core land. Yeah, okay. Thank you. But to answer your question, I can look that up if you want me to for some of those uses and get back to you. Dana, I've looked it up while you were talking. Oh, great, perfect. If I might interject, restaurants are permitted, retail is permitted. There's a whole variety of different. So the kind of uses that you mentioned, Council Member Freeman would be allowed. Okay. And so if there were a request for like a mixed use in this, because I'm assuming that this has been only more sort of industrial, light industrial side of it, would they have to come back to have a conversation with the Council to make that request? Or would that be something that could be done administratively? It depends on what the mix of uses they wanted to do, but they could certainly mix any of the uses that are permitted in this zoning district and proceed to an administrative site plan to do those on the site. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions of staff? All right. We now turn now to our public speakers. We have eight. Each of you will be given three minutes apiece. And I will first start off with Mr. Nile Nosh. Gosh. Gosh, I'm gonna get your name right. Mr. Gosh. Mayor Hill, thank you very much. And I have with me tonight in the same room, Patrick Biker, who's also with the Morning Star Logo and Councilor Westwood, who is with Kimmy Horne. So the three of us are speaking together with that be all right. If we took around, I guess, nine minutes. Yes. Okay. Perfect. And actually Patrick Biker in my office is going to handle the presentation, but thank you very much and happy new year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mayor O'Neill, Mayor Pro Temps, members of city council, can you hear me okay? Yes, sir. We can. Okay. Great. Danny, would you be so kind as to pull up our PowerPoint for this agenda item? And again, you. Yes, I'm trying to do that right now for you. And also Patrick, did you get a chance to send that to our city clerk beforehand? No, I think we only sent it, Neil just sent it to you. Okay, I just wanted to make sure so I could get her a copy for our public record. Oh, of course. I appreciate that, Danny. Thanks for all your help over the years. Certainly. Give me just one moment. I'll have that pulled up for us. Yes, sir. And just tell me when you want me to change slides. Okay. Yeah, if you could put it on a slideshow, that'd be great. And there we go. Mayor O'Neill, Mayor Pro Temps, members of the city council, I'm Patrick Biker. I live at 2614 Stuart Drive. I'm an attorney with Morningstar Law Group and I'm here tonight for this agenda item. Again, with me tonight are Kelsey Westwood with Kimley Horne, our site engineer, along with my colleague, Neil Goche, as well as Andy Smith, who is leading this project for Skinell Properties. Next slide, please. This zoning map change is to resume four tracks to IL without a development plan. One of those tracks is on the east side of Highway 55 and then three tracks are slightly more than 2,000 feet west of Highway 55 along the Wake and Chatham County lines. At the outset, I wish to address why there is no development plan with this zoning map change for industrial life. First, all of the property to the north is US Army Corland. To the south is another industrial park that we built in the town of Kerry and the remnant parcels that are still owned by Tribal Brett. Second, if the city council considers the current zoning on the 100 acres that we are discussing tonight, it is on rural residential, which allows for homes to be built with septic tanks. I cannot think of a more environmentally degrading use than septic tanks near the US Army Corland. Next, my educated guess is that it would take over a year for a development plan to go through the review process. In my experience, the primary drivers of a development plan often are increased buffering and increased environmental protections. To that end, it is important to recall our community's efforts about 10 years ago known as EEUDO or Environmental Enhancements to the UDO. Long story short, Durham has the strongest environmental standards relative to issues like stormwater, stray buffers and wetlands protections when compared to Wake and Chatham counties, which are adjacent to the south of the site we're looking at tonight. Accordingly, I don't know what a development plan would accomplish beyond what the UDO already mandates in terms of protecting our region's environment. Moreover, Sconell has a proven record of being a good neighbor when it comes to lighting and noise as we'll see later in this presentation when you see the power secure building and tribal business center and candle science in the regional conference center. Last, I have to emphasize that the 100 acres we are discussing tonight are next to 135 acres already zoned industrial light with no development plan. And those 135 acres scored 13 out of 14 in the October, 2020 industrial land use study published by the plan department. Now I would like to address the history of this site. The entire assemblage was owned by the, was the former property of Triangle Brick where Triangle Brick excavated clay to manufacture the millions of bricks used throughout Durham and the Triangle. As I stated, this zoning map changed towards around 100 acres on the west side of highway 55 along the Wake and Shannon County lines. And then there's another four acre parcel on the west side of 55. Next slide, please. Again, I need to stress that the entirety of the industrial parks, canal properties host to develop contains 235 acres. And the 135 acres next to highway 55 are already zoned industrial light with no development plan. Next slide, please. Here's the aerial photo of what the assemblage looks like. You can see the former brick pits that are filled up with water within the 135 acres on the right. And on the left side is the 100 acres that is an area that's been timber at least twice over the past several decades. To the north of the 25 acre assemblage is almost entirely United States Army Portland except along highway 55 where this assemblage is adjacent to the Triangle Waste Water Treatment Plant. The residential neighborhood to the north is about 120 feet from the Triangle Waste Water Treatment Plant and the nearer tones are about 700 feet from the treatment plant itself. Next slide, please. In regard to this zoning map change the closest home is over 500 feet away from the boundary of this rezoning and it is entirely wooden. It is important to note that there's a 200 foot wide duty energy easement that precludes any buildings within that easement area. And that is more than 1,000 feet from the nearest residents to the north. Based on our goal of being a good neighbor and based on what we've heard at the planning commission from several neighbors we investigate existing light conditions in the public right of way for Piperwood Court. Next slide, please. As you can see from this slide the UDO standard in accordance with section 7.4.3B is one half foot candle at the property line. Admittedly, the straw majority of people including me do not know what one half foot candle looks like. Next slide, please. Accordingly to make sure that we will be a good neighbor we measured the light level at the street at the public right of way at about 40 feet from the nearest home. And that... He's ahead of me. Yeah, slow down just a little bit, Dan. That light meter reading was 1.71 foot candles which is more than three times with the UDO mandates for Scannel at its property line approximately 500 feet away from Piperwood Court. Now next slide, please, Danny. To the south in Cary's jurisdiction there was another industrial park proposed which is shown on this slide. This industrial park and Cary is already zoned similarly to Durham's IL district and it will contain 170,000 square feet. It's scheduled to be open for business by next summer. The remainder of the property to the south of Wade and Chatham County lines are the remnant parcels still owned by Triangle Brick. Next slide, please. In closing, I wish to address the tremendous benefits associated with this zoning map change. First of all, we have petitioned for the annexation of this 235 acre industrial park. So it will generate a great deal of city tax base right next to RTP. I believe that will be approximately $67 million at full build out. Keep in mind, RTP does not pay city taxes. This site is key for Durham's industrial improvements since it has the best transportation infrastructure I could recall of any development I've presented to the city council. NC 55 is a large multi-lane facility that's only running at 59% of its capacity. In addition, the site has convenient and very efficient access to Highway 147, an interstate facility with a direct connection to RDU airport. Also, I would estimate the site is about five minutes away from the Apple campus in the Wade County section of RTP. That proximity will allow Durham companies in this industrial park to be the vendors and suppliers to Apple and other RTP companies creating good paying jobs for our residents. To accelerate the creation of these good paying jobs, our team has a site plan for the entire 235 acres under review right now. And that site plan shows the dedication of right-of-way and the construction of Hobson Road in accordance with comprehensive transportation plan. This industrial park is permanently offered by the U.S. Army Coral Lands and this site along NC 55 scored 13 out of 14 in the industrial land use study published by our planning department in October 2020. Next slide, please. Even with these facts, Scannell is ready, willing and able to submit a text only development plan to prohibit uses, the uses listed here within the 100 acres we are rezoning if the council deems that to be necessary. In fact, we've already paid the $5,000 fee for that text only development plan. I hope that addresses any concerns that the council may have about uses allowed in the IL district. That certainly are not the intent of Scannell properties for this site. Next slide, please. Given all the advantages associated with this zoning map change, I want to share briefly with the city council three examples of Scannell's industrial buildings that Scannell has built in Durham over the past couple of years. Next slide, please. The power secure campus is at the corner of Alexander Drive in Miami Boulevard is a 15 acre site that has two buildings containing 243,000 square feet. Again, this is a high tech manufacturing facility with approximately 350 employees. It has bike and pet connections and it creates the manufactured micro grids for uses such as hospitals that need to have redundancy from the traditional power grid. Next slide, please. Scannell has also developed a building for Pfizer. This is in the Imperial Center and it is located next to Interstate 540 just north of the Wake County line has over 120 jobs. It's a clinical manufacturing facility that manufactures components for gene therapy drugs and for testing labs. And it employs a wide range of people from people with high school degrees through PhDs. Next slide, please. And last is the candle science building. Again, this is a part of the 65 acre campus called Regional Commerce Center which is along the Durham Freeway north of Ellis Road south of Andrew Avenue. The candle science building is 144,000 square feet. It has about 200 employees and it is a wonderful employer that pays a living wage, does not have any specific educational requirements for employees and they offer full benefits to all 200 employees. In closing, I think it's important to note that Scannell built a candle science building on property that has zoned industrial life without a development plan. Scannell hopes to build on his recent accomplishments in Durham with this new industrial park just outside of RTP for all these reasons and we respectfully ask for your approval. Thank you for your time tonight. I hope you have to answer any questions after the next speakers. Thank you. Thank you, Attorney Beiker. We'll go on with our next speakers. Ms. Cindy Burns, I believe, or was she with you, Attorney Beiker? The Realtors Association. Ms. Cindy Burns. Yes, up here, can you hear me? Hello, you have three minutes now. Thank you. I am the President-elect for the Durham Regional Association of Realtors. I do live here in Durham 127, Continental Drive 27712. Couple of points that I'd love to make on this particular proposal. I feel like this is a great opportunity for jobs in Durham that are desperately needed. This particular opportunity fills a job bracket that we're missing. This opportunity will allow a wide range of jobs from high school graduates on up. This is a type of opportunity that citizens of Durham needs to assist with our growth. Additionally, this request will provide an abundance of job opportunities while at the same time not leaning heavily on the Durham services that many other zoning changes require. This type of zoning requires very little from the city of Durham while providing a lot of opportunities for its residents. As we've heard tonight and we keep as a realtor, we of course keep hearing housing as such an issue. But providing well-paid jobs without the requirement of a master's degree is definitely one way to help out our citizens with the ability to be a homeowner. This type of location is ideally situated for this type of zoning request. We have the four major highways. We have the RDU. This location presents itself as a perfectly situated track of land as well as right as it sits right now it's not ideal for a very low density residential as it's currently zoned. I just don't foresee as a realtor that type of attraction in this particular location. I really feel like this is just a great opportunity for our citizens not only for jobs but also to be able to bring them out of the need for affordable housing. We can get good paying jobs without having to worry about a master's degree and I love that the people that do have them. But we need the opportunity for tradesmen to be able to grow in a company. And I think this is a great opportunity for us. Additionally, finally on a separate note, I do wanna say thank you for all your opening comments. They really were amazing. If anyone ever had any doubt whether or not our city council members or our mayor cared for us, you really showed it tonight. And I don't know if there's a way to record that introduction and pass it out. You really did a great job and I just wanted to let you know that it was very refreshing. And I love the idea that you Mayor O'Neill either gave everyone just an open ended comment timeframe just to talk about Durham. And I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ms. Burns. We will now turn to Mr. Andrew Smith. Mayor O'Neill, this is Neil Gush again. Andrew Smith is on our development team, Ms. Cannell, I'm assuming he doesn't have anything more to say as we presented on his behalf, but thank you very much. All right. We will then move to Mr. Wendell Bullard. Good evening, Neil. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Good evening, Mayor O'Neill. Mayor Quentin Melton, City Councilor and staff. And thank you again for allowing me to speak for just a moment about this project. The comments that were made earlier on the earlier application at 211 Page Road resonated clearly with me when looking at this site, that as the council members spoke about their profits for schools, housing affordability, and as a broker realtor in the market, I know this site for many, many years ago having briefly worked a triangle brick after coming out of the military. So I know this site and watched it over 35 years or so, but we do need development of employment centers along this track at our Wake County border, Chatham County, Wake County, and this site offers quite a bit of opportunity for additional business development as Ms. Byron stated to create employment centers for a wide range of our students in the various, wait, what is Durham County, Durham Tech, for example, the local high schools. We do need that missing middle training and opportunities of employment, which also go to tax base, but also goes to the induction in our youth, not having opportunities that go beyond technical school or maybe even colleges that don't pursue it. So we do have to have that missing middle of employment and an industrial center like that takes an underutilized asset under the current zone and increases its highest and best shoes, which also reduces the demand in the public utilities that are needed. So the return on investment from the city is quite great. With that, I wanna say thank you for the opportunity to speak. Madam Mayor, I appreciate your words while sitting and as a citizen of residence, we are on board to do the best work we can in these types of projects from the developers and investment community of the city's tax base and large and able to provide revenue for the many other services that we need in order to support our community. So thank you for the opportunity. I support the project, have reviewed it and enjoy this to the additional comments and speakers and happy news to you all and to our leaders and thank you for your service. Thank you so much, Mr. Buller. At this time, we will turn to Mr. Kelsey Westwood. Kelsey Westwood is with us here. She's with Kimley Horn and she spoke with us earlier. Her role also together. Thank you so much, Reagan. I'm sorry, Ryan Reagan. Yes, Madam Mayor, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Great, thank you. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton and other distinguished members of the city council. My name is Ryan Reagan and I live at 5318 Dover Ridge Lane in the city of Durham. And I serve as the Vice President of Economic Development at the Greater Durham Chamber of Commerce. I want to voice my support for this annexation request. I believe that the Moristar team appropriately covered the main reasons for supporting this annexation and their comprehensive presentation a moment ago. So I will rehash every reason. But as you know, a top priority of ours at the chamber is to ensure that our community's economic development successes touch all members of the community by connecting more city residents to job opportunities to elevate their standards of living. Last year we received a record number of RFIs for economic development projects considering Durham, both the county and the city. And our community's ability to compete with these opportunities rests on a number of factors, chief among them being the availability of buildings and developable sites. Suitable industrial buildings and sites continue to be limited given our community's significant recent growth. Allowing for the annexation and subsequent development of this property in question will be a positive step towards alleviating that supply and demand issue, especially given some of the appealing features of the property as outlined earlier by Mr. Biker. Ultimately, this property has the potential of greatly diversifying the economic opportunities available to residents in this part of Durham beyond the types of jobs that are typically concentrated at the nearby research triangle park. This would hopefully allow more of our city's residents to connect to our local economy through the availability of more jobs across a broader range of skill levels and a broader number of industries. So keeping it short and sweet tonight, Madam Mayor, I would encourage council to get positive consideration to this annexation request for some of those aforementioned reasons. As Mr. Biker noted, Escanel has been a supportive developer in our community in the past, and I'm confident that their plans for this property are again in the community's best interest. This concludes my remarks, Madam Mayor, and I thank you for your time this evening. Thank you, Mr. Reagan. We will now turn to Shawn Hayes. Good evening, Madam Mayor O'Neill, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton and members and staff of City Council. I am the 2022 president of the Durham Regional Association of Realtors, and I am a resident of Durham at 1114 Comac Drive in Durham, 27703, and I am in support of the annexation. As presented to us by Mr. Biker, it appears to me based upon the previous Item 17 that the highest and best use of this land would be to adjoin it to the light industrial that's next to the property currently. I've been in the Durham area. I've lived here for 21 years now. I've not only been a realtor since 2005, but I was also a real estate appraiser during that time period as well. And the first thing you look at as an appraiser is what is the highest and best use of the land? I think in consideration of its location, what it brings to the county and the city from a tax base to have this annexation and rezone of the parcels brings greater value than the current use of rural residential. I believe the speakers before me have touched on numerous items that I would have touched on as well. So I'm gonna leave their words to them and just say I agree with their statements and I will yield my time back to anybody else that needs it. Thank you, Mr. Hayes. I believe that I have concluded the list of speakers that have signed up, but we'd like to open it now for those who would like to speak on this item. And if you would let us know whether you are proponent or whether you are opponent of this item. Are there other speakers? And I believe we have Ms. Jackie Wagstaff and Mr. James Shackleford is what I'm being told. Ms. Wagstaff, if you would let us know whether you're opponent or proponent and then you will have three minutes to speak. But I believe you have to take yourself off mute. I didn't see your hand raised, Ms. Wagstaff. Mr. James Shackleford, I believe your hand was raised as well, sir. If you would like to, yes, sir. If you would like to speak and if you would let us know whether you are proponent or an opponent at this time, you will have three minutes, sir. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Thank you, Mrs. O'Neill and the city council and staff, this great city. I'm a proponent of the annexation of this area. It's to my understanding that there are a number of problems that we have violence, not to mention the ongoing problems we've had at South Point Mall with the shootings and things of that nature. When our generation and the younger generation are provided options to venture out and enjoy this great city. It's to my understanding that not only would this area be annexed and used for the utilization of creating jobs, I'm notwithstanding the fact that a mall, a great mall, an urbanized mall that will give kids, not only kids, our generation an option of shopping. And that will most definitely boost jobs and revenues in the private sector and public sector when dealing with economic developments. Not only will it boost revenues for our economic development, it will also extinguish the amount of violence that's been happening at South Point. We want to try to divert attention when given the option of choosing this mall and that mall and not only would it create more jobs, but not only create a more livable environment where people can feel more comfortable with having more than one option as opposed to Crabtree, that's in Raleigh, as opposed to South Point where a lot of violence has been occurring. In my opinion, I am a proponent to this area being developed as a means to creating jobs, to creating options where kids can go, relax, where there's no type of violent environments. Not only did I remember someone mentioning that was a training area for Army Corps members or something, and that was federal land. It's to my understanding violence was to occur at this mall after being annexed and constructed. Those people that would commit a crime of that nature that happened at South Point would not only be faced with the consequences of doing crime in this federal land, but not only that, it creates a more type of comfort. It brings more of an economic impact to our community, not only the taxes that it would generate from the new stores and jobs that it would create, in my opinion, would be a great idea. Thank you, Madam O'Neill and city council members and staff for letting me speak based on this matter. Thank you guys. Thanks, Mr. Schenkelford. Ms. Blackstaff, you have your opportunity to speak now. I see your hand raised. If you would let us know whether you're a proponent or an opponent and you have three minutes, ma'am. Hello? Hello? Yes ma'am, we can hear you. Well, I have a few concerns, but I think that I've heard enough spoken tonight that some of my concerns have been addressed, but I did have one concern that I heard, I think I heard Councilwoman Freeman mention about this annexation and if it is, this change would allow for internet cafes and that type of business. And as we know in mostly places of color, where mostly people of low income live, we have a lot of those establishments and they usually breed a lot of unwanted attention that we don't want. So how do we assure ourselves that once this happened, that won't be occurring in this new plan that maybe we'll see another internet cafe pop up and we have one on Fable Street where if you remember five people were shot in one night right in front door of the place and it seemed like that happens all around and these places are located in predominantly black environments. So that would just be one of my concerns, but outside of that, that's it. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, ma'am. Are there any other speakers that I may have missed? Lee Weaver. Mr. Weaver, you have three minutes and if you would let us know whether you're an opponent or a proponent of this item. Can you, Madam Mayor, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Thank you and sit in the rest of the council for giving me just a minute. I would say that I'm not necessarily a full opponent of the plan. I'm speaking on behalf of my mother who lives at 8295 Wake Road. If you guys have picked up on, this is a very unique property in that it touches Wake, Durham and Chatham County all right there together and my mother's property is adjoining this and it is she is in Chatham County. It's a corner down there that was cut off years ago when they put in Jordan Lake. The address is, she's in Chatham County but her address is in Durham. Majority of our property in other areas is in Durham and we're natives of Durham. So we appreciate the need for good paying jobs and affordable housing, all the things that have been touched on tonight. One of the things that I wanted to raise is that the road that runs parallel to this property that is being requested to have the rezoning it really kind of runs in behind my mother's property is there's a lot of small farms residential area that goes down through there. So you can imagine the concern that all the residents have and spoke at the planning meeting that you're basically gonna put an industrial park right behind what's been small farms and residential land for the 50 years that my mother's lived there. And we don't suffer under the delusion that we're going to necessarily influence the decisions tonight that are gonna be made with regards to a project in Durham from somebody who actually lives in Chatham County but we are very much a neighbor of what you're getting ready to do. So grand plan without in the absence of a development plan that can be seen, you know, there's a lot of concern from the neighbors but if you're gonna move forward with an industrial zoning and probably warehouses and that type of thing behind our property, the one thing that the area needs and what we would think would be a good neighbor and forth all planning would be the access to the utilities that would come along with said, you know, the warehouses and that type of thing because what's really gonna happen is the value as a residential area area is gonna go down in our opinion. So ultimately long-term is probably gonna turn over to be more development along the lines what these guys are gonna put behind. And there needs to be planning of things like stub outs for the to tie into the sewer which would still require a partnership between Chatham and Durham County because like I said, it's kind of it's been nicknamed the lost corner down there because all three of those counties come together and the lake cuts it off from Chatham County and you know, Cary's got the other part right there and truth be known, it just kind of sits out there as an orphan a part of Chatham County. And so thank you. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you for sharing your concerns with us. Are there any other speakers? All right. And now Mr. Nosh. It's Gosh and thank you. We just want to take a minute to respond to some of the items that we heard if that would be all right and appropriate. Sure. Sure. So I think there was some concern related to internet cafes or that type of thing. And if you'll recall, Mr. Biker mentioned that we have already paid the fee for a tax only development plan and there are a list of uses which we stand prepared to prohibit on this property. One of those uses is electronic gaming operations which to my understanding covers the internet cafe or sweepstakes type of use. Payday lenders also was another one that we were prohibiting and also nightclubs and bars and paintball is a number of other ones. But I think some of those severe uses if I could describe it that way are the ones that we are looking to prohibit if the council is looking for that type of commitment, we've already paid for it. And we'll submit the paperwork for a tax only development plan to prohibit those types of uses. That's not an issue. With respect to extending utilities beyond the county line into Chatham or Wake County, it is our understanding that the interlocal agreements between those municipalities do not allow for Durham to extend water and sewer services to those areas. So we don't think that's something that we could accomplish on the site just based on the agreements between the municipalities. Obviously we will be extending water and sewer throughout the property, but that's gonna be Durham water and Durham sewer. So I don't know that we'll be able to provide any kind of utility capacity to properties in Wake County, Town of Carrier, Chatham County, you know, with this project. Yeah, we hope that addresses the concerns. Certainly wanted to recognize the former council member Wagstaff for her input on that tonight. And I believe the list of prohibited uses directly addresses former council member Wagstaff's concerns. Happy to answer any further questions, but we appreciate y'all's time tonight. Thank you very much. Ms. Young, I do see your hand. Thank you for recognizing me. I thought it was important at this moment to step in and address the text only development plan topic that is floating around a lot in this public hearing tonight. And that, although we could not find payment while looking, we can certainly take that up with the applicant later, but a text only development plan is not something that could just be proffered tonight or committed to tonight. This item would have to be referred back to the staff. Our preference is that it not be continued because it would have to basically go under staff review. Again, there would be a number of things that would change, for instance, the traffic generation rates have to be rerun. There's a lot of work. And so it would have been great if the applicant had taken those steps back in October when we talk about things that delay and make things run longer in a process. This is a good example of one of those things where a little more proactivity could have saved some time, but that is not something that can happen tonight. And so if that is the will of the council, as this discussion moves forward, I would just like you all to know that the item will need to be referred back to staff and go back into the review cycle. If I could just add, Ms. Madam Mayor, if you're seeking a motion on that and that regard, I'd be willing to offer that. Let the item be returned to staff for further review around the text commitment for prohibited uses. Is there a second to that motion? Madam Mayor, a point of order. We're in the middle of a public hearing in the middle of the discussion. And I just to gather all your weapons in your pocket. I don't sense that you were seeking a motion from the motion side. I don't, you know, disappointed in order. All right, let us, I think I see Mr. Ghost's hand up again. If you don't mind, Councilwoman Freeman, and we will let him respond to, I think, probably what Ms. Young has just stated. Yes, Mayor Protan, members of Council, just want to refer back to the specific wording in the UDO section 3.5.6H, which states that for a text-only development plan, quote, the text commitments can be proffered anytime during the application review and adoption process. So I believe we're doing this in a timely manner. There was no requirement that it be submitted prior to the City Council public hearing in the UDO. As it's written today, having said that, since this is only prohibiting uses that are not desirable, and since Hopson Road is only at 59% of its capacity, I don't think there's really anything affecting traffic generation that would be material to the City Council's consideration of this. And so since all we're doing is modify the ordinance to prohibit the uses that you see on the screen today, we could, we're certainly open to revising the ordinance and making that like, for example, when we add to a development plan, proffered our public schools, which happens quite frequently over the last 5, 10, 15 years. Ms. Young? I would just like to chime in and say that Mr. Beiker is not the arbiter or interpreter of the ordinance. And while the ordinance does say that you can choose to go the route of a text-only development plan, it does not say that you get to circumvent the regular review process. Again, Mr. Beiker, his team has been talking with staff about this and has failed to provide us the information until now. So I just wanted, in full transparency, it's, this happens a lot where the staff get jammed at the last minute. And so I just want to be clear about that, that I'm not for obstructing or inefficient processes, but there is a little more to it than what Mr. Beiker is claiming. Councilwoman Freeman. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I apologize. I interceded because I did note that Ms. Young actually asked us not to close the hearing. And so in order to keep it open, that motion was put forward. And if there were a second, that would be great. Point of order. Only the gavel holder can call for a second. And I have not heard her honor do that. Again, we are in the middle of a public hearing. And if that's the case, we can still have a full-throated conversation, still entertain that motion at the end of having a full vetting and debate about this issue before us. That's my point of order. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Councilwoman Johnson. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to say that I would be comfortable with referring this item back to staff for further review. We rarely get that request from our planning department staff to have the opportunity to further review a case. And I would be inclined to defer to their expertise on when that should happen. So it would be in support of referring it back to staff at whatever moment you deem appropriate. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay, so let's close the public hearing at this time, unless there are other speakers. And then the matter is now back before the council. Madam Mayor, I just wanna make a point of order. She did ask that we don't close the public hearing. I just wanna make sure I'm noting that. I think she asked that we don't continue it, that we close it and then refer the item back to staff. I think it's, is that correct, Ms. Young? That's what I heard it to be, that we closed public hearing. And then at that point, we take up the matter of referring it back. Is that- Correct. And then staff would re-advertise it, get it on an appropriate agenda, and it would be back before you again for another public hearing. All right. And Mr. Ghosh, I have closed the public hearing. I see your hand up at this point, but the public hearing has been closed. Understood. Just wanted to get clarification on what the process was of closing the public hearing, tabling it, and then if we could understand what the review cycle would be, you know, when would we be coming back to council? Yeah, we respectfully ask that the public hearing I'm sorry, if I missed that Madam Mayor, that the public hearing was closed, normally would the public hearings continue to a day certain. Right. And so we would request that be, we would be happy to write the ordinance tonight and turn it back in. Again, I believe we have a receipt showing that we paid the $5,000 fee. And we respectfully ask that this just be continued to the next city council meeting since all we're talking about is the list of uses that's on the screen before you all today. Okay. At this point, what I will do is defer to our attorney as I'm not gonna give any legal advice at this point. I will defer to our attorney to get the correct process. Attorney Raybird, I think the question is, is it appropriate for councilwoman Freeman's motion to go forth is or to close the public hearing and then ask that that motion be given at that time. So I'll defer to you. Right. So Madam Mayor, typically when there are additional questions or additional evaluation analysis needed, there is the public hearing is held open and it is continued to a date certain that the council decides during the public hearing, it consults staff and says, when might we be able to continue this hearing? What would be an ideal date? So that is in my current experience the way that that has handled. I don't know how much time the planning department may need in this instance to reevaluate things. So that may be why the department is just recommending that the hearing be closed referred back to the administration, they go back to the drawing board, readvertise and then bring it back. So that's a different process and it may have to do with the type of work that they need to do. That's something I can't speak to. But typically the process is that a matter is held open and continued to a specified date. Right. So at this point would it be proper for me to open the meeting again, because I had closed it to reopen the meeting and we're all learning here in Durham tonight. So this is good. This is good stuff. So reopen the meeting. At that point, I see a couple of hands like three, four hands at that point. So at this point, I guess I need to acknowledge what the hands are saying at this point. That would be Councilman, we're gonna start with the ladies first as Councilwoman Johnson, Ms. Sarah Young. And then we will jump back to Councilman Williams and we will end with our Mayor Pro Tem. So Councilwoman Johnson, if you would be so kind to help us at this point. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm happy to defer to Director Young on the question of what we should do next. Okay. Ms. Young. Thank you. I've been conferring with staff kind of behind the scenes. My initial concern had been that if you continue it to a date certain and things are maybe not as easily as clean as applicant is saying or we get into stuff in the review that we may be back before you again and the item is not actually ready. However, in talking to staff behind the scenes, if we can get a commitment from the applicant that the only thing that they will change is to limit the uses, then I think we could be back in two cycles and you could just continue it and that would be a much simpler and more streamlined process. But we would need that commitment from the applicant that that's the only thing they will change. Mayor Pro Tem, and then I see Attorney Narcissan is raised. But I'll defer to you first. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I did wanna have some further discussion about the merit of the case itself before us. I'm not convinced that we're at the point where we need to do that for a couple of reasons. Well, first off, just about the merits of the case before us, if it's appropriate at this time, Madam Mayor, I either had forgotten or did not know that there was a large parcel already out there that did not that is owned in the way that the applicant wants to zone the land that's before us without a development plan. They either forgot about that or didn't know that. I find the case and the people that have spoken compelling in terms of the economic case for our city. The other thing is, one of the things about doing this job is you kind of get to know who the players are in the neighborhood and the city. And there are the hard data points you have before you, but there's also your experience with the job. And as you, you're here for a while, you get experience with different developers. Sconell has been a player in our public space for quite some time. And because of that, if Sconell says to me tonight that they're not going to allow internet cafes to be built there and an internet cafe shows up there, they'll never get another vote from me again ever on anything. And I think they know that and I will advocate for that. I don't think that the threshold of uncertainty about what may or may not go there has been crossed, or at least for me, where we need to refer the matter back, particularly if it's just one item about internet cafes and an attorney ghost and others have made a representation tonight that they're willing not to have that happen. We've had proffers made to us, granted they've been for affordable housing and DPS and we don't send those back for review. I did not say that these are totally analogous, but Sconell has been in this space for a minute. They've worked hard to reach a certain level of reputation. And if they want to squander it by making a misrepresentation to this council and going back and doing something they said they weren't going to do, then they'll pay the price for it. But I do not think all things considered, particularly the economic case to be made in this area and what's already out there and around it. One of the things that, and let me say also to the planning commission's comments, I take very seriously the planning commission's comments and the creation of the perception that no development plan is always a bad thing. I don't think it's an article of faith that we should adopt as a council. Now, I think it's appropriate for them. I'm glad that they instinctively raised that flag because I think when there is no development plan we should look closer, but it does not necessarily follow that in every and all cases that the absence of a development plan is necessarily a bad thing. That's not the case in all cases. So I appreciate the instinct and I appreciate the reflex on the part of the planning commission. I hope they'll continue to do that. But I think that kind of a uniform, non-nuanced reflexive application of a rule that if you don't submit a development plan there can't be a nuanced conversation. I don't think that serves us well as a council, as a city. Again, looking at what's already out there in that area I agree with the staff. It's consistent with what's already out there in the area. I think it potentially could be an economic windfall for the city. And one of the things that as a counselor that I seek to do is not to create a chilling effect on our economy, but also not to deny our economy opportunities as well. While keeping an eye on our values, I mean, a lot of the stuff we wanna do as a progressive city, we need money to pay for it. And if there's a way that we can expand our tax base without doing a violence in any of our values without tearing up neighborhoods, then that's compelling to me. And finally I'll say again, just this isn't a developer who we're unfamiliar with, who has no footprint in Durham. And I think that's important. I think that's important that we weigh everything, the planning commission's commons, staff's commons, the long-term economic viability of our city and our region, and we are part of a region. And I think in this particular case, I think the staff got it right in recommending approval of it. And again, my word to Scannell is if you put crazy stuff out there, you'll have to deal with this council in the future, but I do not think that we have crossed the threshold of uncertainty where we need, at least for me, to refer this back to staff. I take them at their word that if they say they're not gonna put an internet cafe out there, that I take them at their word and if they cross me, well, we'll see each other again because they're gonna want to do business in Durham again. So that's my thing. I'm prepared to vote on this tonight, but of course I will abide by the will of the council. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I do see a turning ghost just hand raised again. And so I give him the opportunity to respond. I also see councilwoman Freedman, councilman Williams and councilwoman Cabrera and we'll go in that order. And I won't come back until everybody's done, okay? All right. Thank you, Mayor O'Neill. And just to respond to Director Young's comments, the only proper we are making here is one which would prohibit certain uses. That having been said, we would prefer to have a vote tonight and did not necessarily appreciate that a whole new evaluation would need to be done simply by eliminating uses which otherwise would be allowed on the property. So I suppose I would say if it's going to cause this case to be delayed for some length of time, that the case, Scannell has already submitted the site plan has already submitted site plan, the site plan's interview. They've spent a lot of money on that and they do have plans going forward. Their plans do not include any of the uses which we are proposing to prohibit on this. And so we would much rather have a vote tonight than take a delay, but I suppose as council's will we are willing to prohibit these as part of the zoning if that's what council would like. Freedman, Williams, Cabrera. I was going to defer to council member Williams and Cabrera hasn't said anything yet. Thank you. I had a few questions. Mr. Gosh or Mr. Biker representing Scannell. How many jobs are we expected to bring in building this again? My estimate council member Williams would be well over a thousand, probably in the neighborhood of 2,000 jobs at full build out. It could even be more than that, but that's I think a reasonable estimate for the 135, I'm sorry, 235 acres that we're moving forward with tonight to be well over a thousand jobs could be over 2,000 jobs. Got you. Any guesstimate about what the pay wage will be? I think they'd all be strong living wage jobs with good benefits. Again, many of the companies in RTP require that of their suppliers and vendors that they be living wage employers with good benefits for their employees. And again, the important point is that research triangle part has a tremendous number of restrictions on the types of jobs that can be in RTP. This would be in the city of Durham and it would allow people with a high school degree, a GED, an associate's degree from Durham technical community college to access a job that would certainly pay a living wage and allow them to really enjoy the benefits of living and working in Durham. It's something that I've been passionate about for the 27 or 28 years that I've been working in Durham, sir. Thank you. How far is this site from the new Apple campus? I would estimate five minutes, sir, by car. I don't know how far it is in distance, but I would say the drive is approximately five minutes. Got you. How much do you suspect this expanded the tax space? I think, you know, if based on the cost-benefit analysis, that was in the staff report. If you reverse, sort of reverse engineer that based on a city tax rate of 0.5517, comes out to about a $67 million expansion of our tax base in the city limits. And Wake County and Shadow County have already zoned for this type of development. Adjacent to us in the town of Cary, yes, it's already zoned. I believe it's zoned O-R-D, which is, for lack of a better description, they're Light Industrial Manufacturing Research Development Office Zoning District. So yes, directly adjacent to us to the south is a 14-acre site that's already zoned and is already well along in the development review process. They expect to be moving companies in there. Hopefully this, they hope by sometime this summer. Can you tell me where there may be an internet cafe or anything alike in RTP? I'm certainly not aware of that, sir. No, the Research Triangle Park, both the zoning, the SRP zoning and the restrictive covenants for Research Triangle Park, prohibited that type of use. And certainly, Scannell's track record demonstrates that they've already built many hundreds of thousands of square feet of Class A Light Industrial Space in Durham. None of it is occupied by internet cafes or nightclubs or uses like that. And Apple is in Wake County, correct? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Do you know when Durham found out that we were getting Apple close by? I regret, I don't know exactly when that announcement was. I don't remember if it was before or after the pandemic started. So it's probably about that time. It was actually the day of. And that's that question, simply because I think that we are, and I don't mean this in any disrespectful way to anyone, but I think we are starting to get to the point why some people may wanna do business in neighboring counties and not Durham. It appears that we're hung up on a process here. And I understand the importance of it. I really, really, really do. And I understand the administrative necessities here, but I can't see any evidence in past time where we need to get hung up on this. I really don't. So, and I also don't think that this work that's already partially done needs to take a long time to do if we even send it back. So I'm gonna express strongly that the fact that we simply have people dying on a regular basis, we have a crime issue. We have kids that are not occupied. We have a lot. We have 30 something thousand students in our schools and we do not have enough opportunities for them. And this is the conversation that we're having. I don't wanna oversimplify that, but I wanna stress strongly my position on this. And that's where I stand. I think that we need to put our big pants on and really grow the city like we need to. We're talking thousands of jobs. We're talking millions of expansion and attack space. And we're talking about a reputation that is clear from this company and from the RTP itself. I don't know. I don't know. We just, yeah. I hope that we can move forward with this. I really do. Thank you, Mayor. Councilor McCombery-Arrow. Thank you. Please, I wanna say something. So I was actually very, very excited about this project. I met with the developers shortly before our last meeting in December. What I don't appreciate is in fact the conundrum that we are around the process. And the reason I don't appreciate it is because I do feel that they've been disrespectful to our staff and our staff's time. They could have offered a text commitment plan at any moment. In fact, when I was first on council, if I'm not mistaken, we didn't even have that as an option. We made that as an option to help our development community because I understand that a full graphic plan is very, very expensive. And so I, and I'm fine with voting no and being out voted this evening, but I, and this is not around Skinnell. I think that they have a very good track record. This is specifically for Mr. Gosh and Mr. Biker. Please do not get squirrely and game our process. I don't appreciate it. And I usually I'm very pro development and I'm usually a pretty, you know, there's not a lot that really upsets me, but I'm very frustrated right now. And I think it's because there was something that was tossed out in the moment to try and get a vote without thinking it through. I would, I want that text plan if that's what the, if that's what we decide tonight. And if that's not the will of the council, that's fine. Then ultimately I'll be voting no, not because the project isn't good but because I feel that people are taking advantage of our planning commission, our staff and members of this body. Councilman Reese and councilwoman Freeman, both have hands raised. I defer to council member Reese. Thank you. Councilman Reese. Thank you, Mayor Neal. And thank you council member free and I appreciate that. So I want to back up a little bit. Council member Williams stated as some of his reasons for wanting to move forward as quickly as possible, tonight if possible, thousands of jobs that would be created in millions of dollars of investment for the tax base. I just want to remind our colleagues that those numbers do not appear in any text commitment for development plan for the proposal in front of us. You can ask Patrick Biker all the questions you want about what might go in there, about what he hopes will go in there, about what'll look great. But I'll be honest with you, one of the other speakers was talking about how Durham needs living wage jobs, Durham needs jobs that you don't need graduate degrees for. I agree with that. But I searched in vain in this proposal for a text commitment that requires that on the site. And the reason I searched in vain colleagues is that it isn't there, okay? If they want to guarantee a certain number of jobs, a certain type of uses, a certain amount of investment, they have the opportunity to do that years ago. All right, this plan went to the planning commission. The planning commission expressed its overwhelming concern and desire for specifics in response, what has the developer done between that time and this time? From up until the moment that Patrick Biker started speaking, zero, they did nothing to change this proposal, okay? At any time, they could have talked to staff about what they wanted to do. They could have proposed to the planning commission what they wanted to do. Instead, they waited until tonight until they got to this city council and made this proposal. Now, the very modest request of our staff was that they'd be allowed to review this to make sure that all of these limitation and uses don't change somehow all of the analysis and work that went into this recommendation. That is not a lot to ask for. I understand that folks want jobs. I want jobs in Durham. I understand that folks want development. I'm happy for that. But let's don't pretend that this proposal contains ironclad guarantees of any of that because it don't, okay? And if it did, someone could show it to me in this proposal, but it ain't there, okay? The issue is they ambushed our staff, they ambushed us, and they're expecting to run over us to get what they want, which honestly, I still don't know what it is. No one here can tell me what they're gonna do in the site. They don't feel like they have to because they think they have the votes. I'm gonna support the staff's request to send this back to have them review it, and then we can have another conversation when they come back about the nature of the proposal in front of us. And I hope it focuses on what's actually in front of us instead of fancy words that someone says when they're trying to get us to vote for it. Thank you, Mayor. Councilwoman Freeman, and I think our Mayor Pro Tem has his hand as well. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I appreciate, I can appreciate the firing a little bit more this evening as a given a chance to let other council members say the things that I was thinking. I was trying in this process to avoid the time that we spent in this conversation, just in acknowledging that there was some areas that could have been covered previously. I appreciate council member Reese's context more clearly, he stated, it's just unfortunate that we continue to go through this same loop and with the same players at the table, and it's frustrating. I've been a planning commissioner and I know how much time folks put into the conversation. It is not just a development plan. It is about what is coming with that development. And so just acknowledging that that in and of itself was just disappointing. I do wanna state that I appreciate the jobs. I can appreciate the development. I can appreciate highest and best use, but I don't appreciate the way in which this context has continued to roll through with cases that have come forward. I will say that it's not just the uses, the prohibitive uses, it's also the conversation around whether or not our staff could be talking to Chatham and Wake County about the water and utilities. All of that could have been a part of the conversation, but that was not discussed. And so giving them a chance when Ms. Young asked for more time, I thought was the best way to move forward without closing the hearing would be to just move forward and to allow staff to review it. And so I just wanna give all of that context and say, I was trying to save us a little bit of time this last hour, exactly. But unfortunately that wasn't allowed. I think that it's important to acknowledge that if we limited to the property, to the only property in the prohibitive uses, that would eliminate the opportunity to ask Mr. Gosh or Mr. Biker for even just a contribution to the jobs guarantees program. I mean, that's a proffer that could be made. We're not having that conversation because that's not where we are. And I will say again, we still have to get to the point where we understand what it is when we talk about community benefits. Just developing our county land as to the highest and best use doesn't serve the kids in our community. Open space needs to be accounted for. How and where the transportation is put into place has to be accounted for. And doing it without a development plan is fine but making sure that we understand what is going to be in place and where we're going with it would make a lot more sense. I appreciate the questions that Mr. Council Member Williams asked but can you, can Canell actually say that they would own this piece of property in perpetuity? Those text commitments would be there. And I would not move this forward. I would not vote for this at all without those text commitments. Thank you. Council Mayor Pro Tem Middleton and then we'll follow that with Councilman Williams and then we'll follow that with Councilwoman Johnson. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think there's absolutely no controversy that this council should stand for protecting the integrity of our staff and making sure that we're a bulwark against any disrespect or gaming of our staff whether they work in planning or the police department they're all our staff. So we should make sure that they're respected and their dignity is protected in every iteration of our organizational chart. With that being said, my friend Councilmember Reese said that we've been ambushed. I've been ambushed before not with real bullets but I've been ambushed before. I don't feel ambushed tonight at all. Councilmember Reese said that they think they have the votes. If Councilmember Reese has any representations to be made or wants to make any representation as to why this particular developer thinks that they have the votes when we have not had a full vetting or debate yet I'd be interested in seeing that. I can't imagine who they think they have the votes in pocket already and to suggest that while suggesting that there's no guarantee of economic success in the tech developments when did we ever put in anything that we do as a council that we guarantee success? We didn't guarantee an increase in participation of democracy when we passed participatory budgeting. We didn't put that in there. We don't ever, that's not the way economic, be they tax cuts or whatever, nothing's guaranteed. I've never seen a tech development where it says we guarantee that the price point will be this or we guarantee that this many jobs will be made or we guarantee that the tax base. There are indicators, there are equations, there are algorithms, there are best practices that we use. So I just reject the false argument that SON's concrete tech developments or tech commitments that there's gonna be economic success that that has never been our standard. I think it's a red herring, it's a fake argument. And I'm also concerned that to suggest in that these developers think they have the votes. Who are you talking about? Who are the votes on here that they already have? I've certainly made no representations to any developer at any time that my vote is a sure thing. I believe we all go through the process with integrity. We bring our best selves to it and we cast votes as fiduciaries of this city in the best interest of the city with integrity to the best of our ability. So I don't know who you're talking about when they say they think they have the votes. Here's how I heard the exchange. Mr. Beiker offered a reading of the ordinance. Ms. Young pushed back, she actually said that he is not the arbiter of the ordinance, which he's not, which is true. I saw it as a reading of it. Ms. Young pushed back. Ms. Young then came back later on and said that she had consulted with members of the staff and in a very professional, dignified way which characterizes Ms. Young at all times in our staff. She said that well, if it's just that one thing that it can be accommodated. So I just wanna lower the temperature a little bit. I don't know where the ambush lane was just coming from. I don't know where the, they think they have the votes common is coming from. But what I do know and what I've seen within the corpus, within a grand scheme of experience of voting on these matters and looking at these issues in context, I don't see anything controversial about this. And if I'm missing it, again, that's why we vote and I'll go with the will of the council however it is. But these characterizations and reading people's minds, what they think and pretending that we always put in text commitments what the absolute outcome is going to be. It just does not square with experience, doesn't square with logic. That's not the way we do things. So again, I do not think we have crossed the threshold where this matter needs to be referred back. I believe Sconell, when they say they're not gonna put it in an account. There was a slide already in the presentation that spoke to electronic gaming. The language, now I don't know unless they did that slide tonight, within the context of this debate that was already part of the presentation that satisfies me. The staff whom I respect recommended adoption of this proposal on the path of the developers. And I'm inclined to agree with the staff and vote for this proposal. I'm prepared to do it tonight. If it's the will of this council to remand it back for whatever reason to add however many sentences and add more weeks, I'm fine with that too. Thank you, Madam Mayor. All right. Councilman Williams and then Councilwoman Johnson. Yeah, I might say something. Good. I concur with a lot of what Councilman Middleton just said, actually, I don't know. I don't know. I don't wanna get too much into the characterizations. I hold high respect what Councilman Reeve stated. And I think that's what make this council so good. We have multiple perspectives. For me, if you ask me, if I took my restaurant and put it somewhere and put a proposal out, then I will hope that I've stated a reputation that will do a good job. And that's part of what I was looking at. For me, this makes business sense. And I rely, as I stated before when I first got on this council, this is the lens. This is one of the lenses that I actually look at these things and I'll rely on my colleagues to invoke their lens and hopefully it balances out that way. I'm looking at the state of things in Durham right now and I'm looking at our neighboring municipalities and I'm looking at how they're doing things and I'm looking at regional development and regional economic development and I'm looking at opportunities before us. And I hold high in great regard what's been said here tonight in regards to just making sure we have it down on paper, making sure the promise is ironclad, I'm with that. But like I said, I look at the state of Durham and I look at our need and I look at how this can potentially provide some solutions. I'm not hung up on just this one thing. I'm ready for multiples, multiple, multiple opportunities to come across. And I was elected to this seat to hold the pressure. So if something goes wrong, hold me accountable. And I definitely, I guess I'm still new to this process. So I didn't see it, you guys know more about this than I do and I'm learning it, but I didn't see it as an outright, just demeaning behavior to the staff. I thought it was just an exchange. Ms. Yon, if you see fit for us to take more time to do this, I'd love to hear how much time you think it would take to make this a this accommodation and let's get the ball rolling. Whatever works best, I wanna make sure that we can clear the way for our staff to be able to do their job and do it the best way they possibly can. Fireworks started to slide tonight and I didn't understand why. So we're learning here and but it doesn't change my intensity of the fact that we have an issue in this city. And part of it is we don't have enough kids or enough people occupied. And this is part of that solution. And that's the way I look at it. And then I look at the reputation, as I stated earlier, the reputation of the work that's been done in this city by this company. This has nothing to do with Mr. Biker or Mr. Gosh or no, Gosh. I'm looking at the company and it's hype in their track record. I just don't see it as all of a sudden they're gonna start doing this over crazy stuff. So I'm in the business of trying to find some partners that's gonna build this city in its best benefit. But I do appreciate my colleagues and all the filtering in this and I follow your lead on that, just and I acknowledge your perspective as I hope you'll acknowledge mine. And I just, I appreciate it. I'm ready to move forward on this, but I will, for the sake of our record as a counselor with my colleagues, I would do what's best, what we all agree to do. As long as we can come to a point where we're not taking another year. So however long it may take to move this forward because we got work to do in this city. So I thank you all for the passion, but I hope we can move forward with what's best. Thank you. Councilwoman Johnson. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to talk a little bit about what I think our options are. So Director Young said that they would prefer for the item to be referred back to staff, but then later said that if we wanted, we could continue the public hearing for two cycles that she thought that would be enough time to manage the additional, the tax only development plan with just the restrictions on usage. Or we could vote now, but I think that if we were to vote now, if I'm understanding what our staff is saying that if we were to vote now, it would not make sense to include the usage restrictions in the package that we're voting on now that they need more time to actually incorporate that and rerun the numbers and make that happen. So it seems like our two options are vote on the current proposal without additional usage restrictions or the least burdensome continuance would be to continue for two cycles to get the planning staff time to review and incorporate those additional restrictions into the plan. So I think the real question is whether we feel like those restrictions are necessary and I'm wondering what my colleagues feel about that. And then if we can get a sense of whether we want to move forward with those restrictions and I think we can just do the continuance. And if there isn't a majority of people who want to move forward with those restrictions then we can just vote now. But I don't feel clear yet on what the feeling of the body is regarding the additional use restrictions whether we need them or not. And now I think I want to try and weigh in as to my perspective. The first thing that I think that is clear in my mind that we had no opponents to this, okay? In all the public speakers. However, at the same time, the one concern that I really had coming into this that you had a planning commission who voted 012 and that weighs heavily with me. As I sit here and sit here and listen, I think that when you talk about projects of this size being fairly new in this arena and just listening to everybody, I've learned a lot. I think it's important for me that I am clear what I'm actually doing. And so when I hear the concerns raised by the folk who have been on this council longer than I and who this developer is new to me, I do know some of the players, but then this type of issue is new to me. I don't see a reason why we would not defer it until we're all clear, especially me at this point. And so in my mind, when you think about how long this land is going to be used in comparison to the two cycles, then that's how I weigh it. And I would feel more comfortable in allowing those questions to be answered because those questions too were raised by some of our speakers. And in the long run, sometimes I think that it's better if we are deliberate. This is what democracy looks like, but if we can get to a point, and I think we're all at that point where we are supportive or could be supportive, it sounds like I'm trying to get a feel for the body of councilwoman Johnson says, but there's some clear points that I think people want clarified. And if that takes two cycles to do that, that allows your mayor to kind of catch up on some of the nuances that other people already have so that I can be at that point of comfort too. But I'm cognizant when others say, I'm not quite there yet, but I will be if this happens. So that's kind of where I stand on it. I think that I would be voting to allow our staff to have those two cycles and come back. That gives me more time to feel comfortable. Is there anybody else? And I know that's where you were trying to get us to councilwoman Freeman, but sometimes it takes a little time for this brain to kind of catch up. So it may have been something that you all can kind of get through quicker, but slow and steady right now, less than 30 days on a job, that kind of works for me. That kind of works for me. This is all new. And in this last hour, where I may have seen like going around and around for some of you all, for me is very new. And I've been very attentive and I plan to stay that way. It's been very helpful to hear you all express those sentiments. So that's where I am. I can learn a little bit more. I'm with you there. Okay. If Charlie will buy me coffee, I'm with you. All right. All by lunch. Let's do it. I'm ready. Well, you know. A good restaurant town, I don't know. You know, councilman Reese, he's passionate now. You got to give him that. So, and so is our mayor protein. So that's what democracy looks like. It's when we can all kind of put it out there and then just say, okay. Well, now we've gotten it out and we'll move on. So the public hearing is still open. And Mayor Pro Tem, if you were so, if I see your hand raised. So if you- Yes, Madam Mayor. Go ahead. Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I'm in full agreement with your directive and your leading on this. Just a question. And if we do this in those two cycles, could we just get an understanding from the staff and the developer? What exactly are they going to be doing? Is it to add that language of restriction? What is the task? No. I'm having to respond to that unless you're asking staff to respond first. That's no problem. Well, I'd be curious to see what your understanding of what's going to happen is. Yeah. So what we anticipate doing here is submitting paperwork for a tax only development plan. The only commitment that we are making in this regard are a list of uses which would be prohibited on the property. And if I recall correctly, the uses which I'm not prohibiting are ones which are defined in the UDF specifically. It was on a slide earlier. I actually have the slide in front of me, happy to read those uses right off the list if that suits you. So you're essentially going to resubmit that slide is what you're saying? Yes. OK. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm going to turn to Ms. Young, though, for her clarification and clarification. Sure. Just to let you all know, we will take that information. We will rewrite the ordinance with that information. Although I agree with the applicants that I don't think it will change the traffic numbers, we will rerun those since we need to. But again, I don't think that will generate really anything. And we'll update the staff report. The on base submittal deadline, just so you all know, for two cycles out is actually tomorrow. So even two cycles out, we will be jamming and cramming this thing through for you all. But we will get it done. Thanks so much, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you, all. OK, Councilwoman Friedman. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'd like to make a motion that we move forward with referring this item back to our staff to accept those prohibited items and review and rewrite their ordinance for us to review in two cycles. Point of clarification, we're keeping the as it's within the prerogative of the gavel to just you've already got unanimous consent for us. It's within the prerogative of the gavel to just keep it open. I don't think we need to actually I don't think we've ever taken a formal vote to. OK, so and I'm hearing the Nassia attorney just to just for her to give me a nod. I will hold this matter open for two cycles. And we will know what that date is from our. I'm sorry, I think it's February 7th. Thank you. So that'll be February 7th. OK, all righty. Now, OK, I think now we are moving through our agenda. And guess what? I believe that we are there for other matters. Are there any other matters that come before our council tonight? Great start to a new year, everybody. Great start. So at this time. This meeting on the third day of January 2022 in the Bull City, where we get things done. This is how what democracy looks like. We are now at 1050 declaring that this meeting is adjourned. Great job, everybody. This was I learned a lot. We'll see you on Thursday. Happy New Year. OK, well, I'm going to learn even more. Thank you all. Not everybody. Thank you all. That was great. I had a good time.