 is restrainable. We'll see how many people pop in. Hey, Nate, good to meet you. Hey, thanks for, thanks for letting me be here. Yeah, you're very welcome. It's good. It's been a very long time coming. You know, we've been talking about doing something like this for a very long time. And here we are. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad that you pushed this to happen because it's needed to happen for a while. Yeah, it only took us forever. So anyway, this is actually streaming to my YouTube channel and Nathan's YouTube channel and Facebook and Twitch and all kinds of places. So for those of you who are joining on my channels, this is Nathan Peterson next to me. Nathan is a practicing therapist in Texas, specializing in anxiety and OCD. And you can find him at anxiety and OCD online or OCD and anxiety online. I never forget. I was getting maybe OCD dash anxiety. Yep. Yep. So yeah, so Nathan, I have been talking about doing something like this for a very long time. We finally got our answer. And we're glad that you're all here. As I usually do, I'll put the chat overlay up. So if you guys have questions or comments, you can ask them as we go and you'll be able to see them on the screen. Here we go. There's their first one. Hello, Cherise. Hey. And today, we're gonna the topic today is yes, even the scariest thoughts or the scariest symptoms, which I'm guessing you guys can all probably hello, little lights. So I guess you guys could probably relate to this sort of stuff. So in your practice, I'm guessing, as I'm sure that this will be the case, you must hear all the time. I get what you're saying. I get it. I have to resist my compulsions. I have to stop my responses. I have to do all the things. But what about when the thought is or what about when the symptom is like there's a line in the sand, right? I can't I can't cross that line. Even that I have to do it with. Yeah, no, it happens a lot, probably almost every person realistically, in some way or another, you know, I'll be explaining OCD, maybe your anxiety and treatment. And they're like, Yeah, I hear you. But, you know, mine, mine is different. You know, mine deals with this or mine deals with that. Or, you know, this is normal for people to be really worried about this. It's kind of finding that this is different. And, and I'll show you why your treatment's not going to work kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And that's part of sort of that basic psycho education thing at the beginning, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We now have 91 people by show of hands, who thinks or thought at one point that their anxiety or the OCD subtype was definitely special and different. Because I had this symptom, but I had short of breath. You don't understand. You know, that's that's special, right? So I'm sure we're going to find a bunch of people who will say, Oh, yeah, 100%. Thought I was special. Thought I was unique. There you go. First hand, by the way, those of you who are on Nathan's channel, if you see Facebook user, that's just because on restream, those are people in my Facebook group and you can't see their names. But yeah, here we go. I get it. Everybody thought that I know I thought that for a while when I was suffering years ago, like, Oh, no, this must be different. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know I've gone through anxiety moments where I'm like, you know, I know I'm a therapist. I know what I'm supposed to do. But this is different. You can do exposures for your thing. But like, man, man's different. I'm coming out of it. I'm like, what the heck? That was the same thing. Because everyone else is going through like, yeah, that's the old like, Oh, wait, I guess I have to take my own advice. Could that be true? No. Yeah, yeah. So even as a working therapist, you've had that where like, no, this is clearly special. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely felt like it. Are there common themes that for you in my community, I can tell you the things that people will dig their heels in and insist are special and can't these rules can't possibly apply would be DPR. That's probably the first one. And the fear of going insane. Those are probably the two things. And then the usual health anxiety themes. But this is way, way, way too important. I can't risk my health. I have kids. I have a family. So those are the three things where I see people dig their heels in. Do you have common themes that you hear? Yeah, health anxiety is one that comes to mind for me just because it's it's something that if someone has a health issue, it's usually going to be further down the line. And I can do something now to prevent it. So it's not worth the risk to not do this, you know, behavior, whatever I'm doing now to make sure I don't get cancer later or schizophrenia later or, you know, whatever else it is. That's the one that I see is, it's like, you know, we're not going to know if we're right or wrong for years and years and years and years possibly to come. And so don't take the risk is what it feels like, at least right now. That's a tough one. So I won't try to present prevent it today. And therefore, I will take a risk that this might show up in two years. I should have just I should have in 2023 I should have just powerful. Yeah, you know, I stopped drinking, you know, diet diet soda, because I read that one article, I could prevent, you know, that cancer or whatever it is. But that's that's the thing is, when it comes down to it in the future, if someone ever gets a health issue, we can't really ever link it back to this specific moment or this behavior that I did that actually prevented it, depending on what it is. Yeah, but I, you know, an anxious mind will convince you that no, I can't if I'm just cautious enough, and I stay vigilant enough, I will be able to head off that disaster. Yeah, yeah, it'll tell you that sort of lie. I'm looking at all the people who are talking about what they think is the worst thing for them. Like really, I have to actually like allow this one to derealization. I hear harm OCD that's that I know that's a really difficult type of people to deal with, but shouldn't like can't we can't possibly apply even to those thoughts, right? Yeah, you know, harm OCD, you know, I think po CD. Those ones are pretty big. It's like, there's no way I'm going to risk something like this or it's different. I actually feel like I could do something. And I created a video that's called you are not special, but I have to give a caveat like you are special, but your your OCD is not special. Your anxiety is not special. Yeah. For those of you from like my side of this, does this sound familiar? Yeah, it's it's hard to hear sometimes. But it's, I think having a lot of trust and faith that like, it feels special, but I actually got to treat it the same as everything else. I love it. Nathan, I am special. Everybody special, we get that. But if there's a comfort and a power in that realization to that, like, Oh, I guess it's not special. It feels so important, like it must be special, especially if your thoughts about losing your life or your kids, you know, like this is the most important thing in the world. Of course, it's, it's, you can't make me just accept this. So once you hit that resistance, sort of where do we go? Because I'm sure that everybody here is, you know, wondering like, yes, I have my special thing that I think I can't I can't allow that. So what do we do in that situation? What would you do when that person reaches that point where it's like, okay, okay, fine, I have to accept it. I have to do the thing. What do we do now? Yeah, you know, I do a lot of, I guess, motivational interviewing, which essentially is helping someone almost accept what they're going through, but they're not going to be fully certain about it. And feel like they're taking a huge risk to kind of get them to that point of like, you don't have to feel confident in doing exposure therapy or risking this thing or maybe not washing your hands this time, like you don't have to feel like now's the time I'm ready to just risk it. You just kind of do it. And I hope people get to that point where they, whether they're doing it in my office, or I can give them homework at home to do like, let's just do it. And if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But we'll see other alternative. I love the motivational interviewing thing. That's that where you have that person that's in that sort of pre contemplation phase and like, no, no, I'm still going to resist it. And it can really help you get in touch with the reality of like, no, no, this is a problem. I am going to have to do it a different way. But you're never ready to do it. You're actually never ready until after you do it, which is a crappy deal. But it's a deal we got, I say all the time. So you're you're we can acknowledge that like, when somebody like Nathan, or you hear this sort of thing, like you're just going to have to do it, even though it seems too risky to do it. You know, you learn through that that Oh, it wasn't actually as risky as I thought it was. But it's okay to feel like this is just too hard. This is just too scary. Everybody confronts that. Right. Doesn't make you weak or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I always use the word faith, you know, not even in the religious sense, but more of, you know, faith is something we can't see just yet. And but we do it anyway, or we we choose to believe whatever it is anyway. And and then we find out later, like, wow, this actually was real, or it was true. And that's what I often see with this treatment. It's like, I just got to have faith, even though everything inside me is screaming, this is wrong. But I got to do it anyway. And really, the alternative, what I get from it is living life. I get to shoot, you know, if we're looking at whole things, I, for, for an example, I get to choose to continue living life every single day. And, you know, what I always say is when there's a problem, we'll solve it. Let's wait for a problem. I mean, we don't have to wait for it really. But if it arises, let's fix it. But if there's nothing right now in this moment, then my job is to live life like that. That's where I need to be. Yeah. Am I impaired at the moment? Or am I worried that I might be down the road? And I love your conceptualization is conceptualization of faith is great. I love that. I use the term leap of faith all the time, but at least in this thing. And as evidenced by the 120 people in the room right now and in the comment section, it's an informed leap of faith. It's not a blind leap, even though it feels emotionally like it is. You have the people who came before you. For me, when I was leaping, I was literally trusting, like, for weeks. I mean, she was gone at that point, but I had her book in my hand, and I was trusting that she wasn't steering me wrong, and I was trusting all the people who had done this before me. So that leap feels so scary and dangerous, but you are, in fact, sort of trusting the people who went before you. I leaped too, and it wasn't what I thought it would be. So that's the benefit of this sort of community I think that we have here for sure. It's an informed leap of faith. Yeah, yeah. And to use something that generalizes maybe everybody can relate to is, you know, I think of exercising and working out that I, you know, I go to the gym and I lift a bunch of weights that I'm gonna feel really crappy probably afterwards and feel very sore. My body's gonna say that was not great. Don't do it again. And I'm not gonna see, you know, strong muscles right now, but everything inside me I've got to push through that and say I know I feel really bad. This didn't feel right, but I got to do it again and again and again and again and again. Yeah. And then all of a sudden the results happen, and people realize this was worth it. And I kind of think about with treatment like it's not this full-blown, you know, results right now, but down the line, you know, people feel and get better when they kind of have that faith, take that leap of faith and just do it, even if it's sore or even if they're feeling anxiety or nervous. And that's the whole like in the gym analogy. It's so funny because for all of you who have said, how come you not working with Nathan Peterson? I get it now. So I always use the gym analogy for me. I would hate going to the gym, but I love that I went to the gym. And I think the same thing can hold true for some of the treatment that we're talking about here and the scary things we do to get better. Like, I hated doing it. I didn't want to do my exposures. I hated them every minute, but I was so happy that I did them. So that's really important, I think. That's that, you know, you only get it after you do a kind of thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to go for roughly half hour or so. So we're almost about halfway through. Do you want to go through and see if we have any questions or comments to jump in? We'll kind of have a conversation together as we go. Yeah, let's see what we got here. So let me close this. Evidently, I'll have the controls here, which is not good for you guys. My issue, okay. So let's see here. Everybody's waving. There's so many comments. You guys are killing it today. All right, let's see here. So people were certainly waving hello and they were telling, they were confirming that, yes, they have thought that they are certainly scary. This is good. Let's throw Bethany's comment up on the screen here. Bethany says, or when it's a new thought or symptom, the old ones we're familiar with, but the new ones must be different. This is another common one. I know I hear it all the time. Like I haven't I haven't experienced this before. Is this normal? Is this, you know, what happens when you have a new symptom or a new thought? What would you do with that? Yeah, you know, I often know that when something new happens, you know, I know logic doesn't seem to work very well, you know, with OCD and even anxiety, that when the new thing pops up, you think about the old thing. Where did that go? You know, that was the new thing, but now it's the old thing. And that kind of tells you right there, I'm getting tricked time and time again with the new thing. What I say, I love when people can catch the new thing and they take care of it immediately, right when it happens, right when it comes up. And the new thing could be anything like, you know, I don't know, walking down the hallway and I felt like I was going to trip somebody and now I feel like I'm going to harm people that I even have that thought. I'm going to make sure I take one step closer to the next person that walks down the hallway and say, yeah, I might trip you. I'm not going to say it a lot probably, but in my head I'm, yeah, maybe, I don't know. But if I purposely, you know, step away because I want to make sure the new thing isn't real, then I actually just put value on that and I said this is a big ordeal and it's going to be a new big, big, big thing. And so I try to catch it before it becomes the big new thing. How can we step closer to the threat instead of pull away from it? Yeah. Especially with anxiety because we already know anxiety without an immediate threat right in front of us is a false alarm because that's what anxiety is for. You're in danger, get rid of it, fix it right now. Yeah. But if you can't see the problem there's nothing to do. And it's going to keep throwing those new threats at you and this is why from my interpretation of that, for people in my community, we never talk about symptoms. They want me to talk about symptoms in the worst way, but what about this symptom? How do I deal with that? But then you wind up playing whack-a-mole if you address the content of the thought or the specific symptom, then you think you have to learn how to deal with each one individually, but the cool thing about the person who catches the new thing is that they've taken the principles that they learned with the old thing and they've forklifted them over into the present and they use them. That's when you start doing that, that's when you know you're really making progress. Because you're not learning how to deal with a symptom or a thought, you're learning how to deal with the fear in general, you know, the reaction in general. And I think that's always a good sign. So what did I do with the old fear? I guess I'm going to have to do the same thing with this one. Yeah, I like the, you know, make this more of a lifestyle, more than just a moment-by-moment deal. Practice, exposure therapy in all aspects of life and uncertainty. I don't need to know everything. Maybe I planned dinner five minutes before, because that's just what I do. I'm going to choose to be uncertain until the minute before or whatever it is. And just practicing this teaches our brain to be okay not knowing everything. Did you choose a dinner uncertainty thing? I did. I love it. I feel like my one is always make dinner without asking people what they want. That's always like, oh, I can't do that. Well, yeah, you can. See what happens. Like, you can handle it. Let's throw this one up on the screen. This is a good one. This is from Little Lights, who says, I feel like I'm a burden. I feel like I'm a burden. I know it's, I know I'm not, but it's just a thought that makes me feel like it's true. So this is that thing where, like, I have a thought and I'm so emotionally invested in it that it feels so important that these sort of rules of recovery cannot apply to this thought, right? And is that, where does that come from? I'm guessing that is that emotional reaction. This feels, this is important to me. I don't want to be a burden, so I need to treat this, this specific fear. Now, don't give me principles. I need to make this feeling go away. Yeah. You know, I think that typical therapist would see this and say, well, let's look through your whole childhood and your past and, and you know, you are because, you know, your parents said, you know, whatever, but it's like that doesn't actually fix anything. Instead, we've got to retrain the brain to see this as, as a signal and we're going to respond differently to it every time. Yeah. So for me, I would have, I can't tell this person exactly what to do, but you know, typically somebody might, you know, write down all the things that make them feel like they're a burden, whether it's, you know, I called my mom twice today or, you know, I don't know, whatever it is, and I actually like have them go do that on purpose. The things that make them feel like they're a burden and have them respond differently to that feeling that they're getting of like, yep, maybe she thinks they are, maybe not. You know, I, I don't know, unless someone specifically is like, you are a burden and they're telling you that we're not reacting any different to it. To teach the brain that like it's actually okay for us to just be human and live life and have feelings. I often treat, you know, we talk about anxiety all the time, kind of being a fault signal. I think about emotions too, like guilt, shame, things like that can actually be a fault's emotion. And not that the emotions don't matter, but I don't always have to engage with a thought just because I had the emotion. So instead of somebody trying to convince themselves like, no, I'm not a burden. You know, it depends on the person. Yeah, we're choosing to just continue living life and like, you know, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do, whatever I want to do. Even if I call my mom twice a day, that's what I'm gonna do until she tells me otherwise. Right, exactly. And maybe sometimes, hey look, and the reality of life is sometimes people, anxious or not, sometimes we impose upon the people we love. We just do, even we don't mean to. So like, I'm gonna have to be able to navigate through that. And I love how you pointed at the whole like, well the traditional or common sense approach, common sense approach, would be now we need to dig to find why do you see yourself as a burden. And in some cases that might be true, but when that thought triggers a bunch of ritualized responses designed to prove that you are not, and you begin changing your life completely and accommodating that to make sure that it's not true, then we have to start to detach from like, let's dig, dig, dig, because it's not always let's dig, dig, dig. So, love it. Let's see else, what else we have here. This is a common one. We'll throw this up too. We'll just throw a couple, I think, common, so just to get people get an idea that, yes, this is very similar thing. People with harm OCD will assume that this one is very difficult because it seems so very dangerous. Another one was people talk about harm OCD, POCD is another one, just to validate that, yes, in the community these are really hard. Another person talking about real event OCD. Real event OCD is like, no, no, the thing actually did happen. You want to talk about that one for a second for people who don't understand what it is? Yeah, yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up because I didn't even think about that. That is a big one where, you know, this is different because it actually happened. It's not something that could happen. Often with really event OCD, it's taking a moment in somebody's life that happened. It could be a moment that they regret. It could be something so small that was nothing into everybody else, but to them their brain says this was a really big deal or you did something wrong or maybe you're a fraud. People don't really know the real you because of, you know, whatever this is. And they're essentially feeling anxious and trying to problem solve, you know, am I a good person? Am I not a good person? Or did I, you know, whatever it is in their past, but often with this, I want people to be more aware of like the thoughts that are happening and allow memories to be memories and anything else that comes to their brain. They're like, you know, this one's a memory. This one's causing lots of anxiety and I don't have to, you know, deal with the thoughts that are causing anxiety. Like I don't have to figure these ones out. Anything from the past that we think about that we're, you know, we feel guilty or shame about is something that I, you know, shame and guilt are for moments where we need to learn something from. And once we've learned it, we can move on. But if our body won't let us move on, then that's where I'm treating those emotions as faults. Like, oh, that's good. I've moved on. These emotions can be here. Cool. Like I even have people enjoy those emotions like, I love this shame right now. Yeah, this guilt is great. Like you're welcome to keep coming back with these memories. This is, this is awesome. Just to show that I don't care anymore. Yeah. Even if it was a real big, big, big thing. But I did this, but I did this. It's like, no, but you're living life now. Like, let's live life now. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. I get that. But, you know, these are, here's another one, existential OCD. This seems so incredibly important. I, how am I supposed to accept the idea that I won't be here one day and that I don't know the meaning of life. So there's so many of these things that people will insist like, no, no, no, the rules can't possibly apply to this. This is one, harm OCD and then there's self harm OCD. That's that like, oh, I'm worried that I might hurt myself, even though I don't want to and I have no intention of doing that. I still worried about that. So you can see why these feel so important that many people will say, but even that thought, even that fear, even that symptom, yeah, even that as crazy as it sounds. Do you find that? I mean, I know I do, but so I'm guessing you do too. But sometimes this is such a hard sell because of that. It runs counter to sort of the, what am I going to say, the common mental health advice, which is soothing and calming and cuddling. I'm not saying the bad way. Everybody deserves that, but it's really hard to tell somebody that's afraid that they might harm themselves or their child, for instance, or that are afraid that they're going to die. That they have to go ahead and do it because you're not going to do it. That sounds terrible, cold, cruel, dehumanizing, difficult. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I often feel like a bad therapist that people often say like, I hate you, but I love you like being just because, you know, they'll go through all the symptoms, everything that they're experiencing. And then my answer is pretty simple. You know, we're not talking about the content just like you mentioned earlier. We're not talking about all the symptoms, unless it's, you know, like an intake or something like that. We're talking about what is affecting your life and this is what we're going to do about it. And it's sometimes really hard to do because it's definitely a hard sell to say do the opposite of what you think you should be doing, right now. Yeah, do the opposite. It is a very hard sell. And it's also very nuanced because sometimes you don't even know what the opposite is. And I think, you know, do the opposite is like, well, think of all the things that you do to try to make yourself feel better in that moment where that very special fear of symptoms up and then you have to do the opposite of those things or not do them. That's the opposite. But I think it's always important in things like this and listen, you know, we have a pretty large group of people right now and active in the room. But even in a 30 minute video, you know, you can't solve the problem in a 30 minute video. So there's a whole lot of other information in psycho education you should evaluate yourself of. But these are the general principles. So and yes, when you hear them, especially if you're hearing them for the first time, it will seem like that's impossible. I have no idea what these guys are possibly telling me to do. That's also very normal if you're reacting that way. Let's throw a couple other questions up here because I think they're really good. This is one somebody had asked, let's see here. I must have missed it. Somebody talked about is there's something that you can do that would make you not recover. I can't find that one. I'm sorry. But this one is also because there's a ton of comments. You guys are on fire today, but there's this one. This is a good one. Can you overcome it if it's genetic? And it seems that you can. Yes, there's plenty of data that says sure, because you may have a genetic vulnerability to develop these things. But this is not like you've had a disease passed on to you. Maybe went into this obsession before, but it's genetic so I can't get better. Yeah, well, because it's always genetic. Thank you. There you go. Whether it's anxiety or whether it's OCD, it's always genetic. And there are people and I look at the word overcome and it's like, what does overcoming mean for you? Because it's going to mean something different for everybody. Some people think overcome means I'm never going to have an anxious thought again or I'm never going to have a worry or not going to have any intrusive thoughts. And sometimes that's not what overcome means. It could be for some people. For some people it might be I'm still going to have thoughts, but they just don't bother me or I'm not feeling really that anxious about them anymore or they kind of come and go every once in a while. And so, you know, I always have people kind of reframe either recovery or overcome. Like, what does that actually mean? But I guess to answer the question like, yes. People can overcome whatever they're going through as long as they've got the right treatment to do so. Yeah, there's a ton of data that shows that you may have a genetic vulnerability to this stuff, but it doesn't mean that you are treatment resistant so that you're done. That's not true. But even in that situation, that's another very common theme, the obsession or the fear that repetitive thought that I won't get better. Like, I fear that I won't get better. So does that mean I won't get better? This can latch on to so many different things. It's almost mind boggling. So let's see what else other people, ooh, ooh, ooh, let's throw this up. Marcy, good comment. Starting to see that my fear of one specific thing doesn't really matter. I'm actually only afraid of feeling afraid. Good job, Marcy. And that speaks to this, that like even though you are most scary thing that you think is special in the end, Marcy's starting to see that, oh, it's it's kind of not in the end. Yeah. Let's see what else we have. You see anything? I was going to say, I often see that as, you know, like kind of meta anxiety or meta OCD. I'm feeling anxious about possibly being anxious again. And, you know, I, we changed that reaction of like anxiety is not the bad guy. You put our arm around it. It's welcome to come if it wants to. It can leave if it wants to leave. And that's how we changed that relationship with it. It's like, yeah, just it is what it is. And I can do anything to try to avoid it. Just live life. Yeah. Which seems like such a tall order. I mean, I see people in the comments talking about Cassie's talking about how her thoughts give her nausea and people want to know how do you do when you're off balance. So I know it sounds completely ridiculous when you hear people like Nathan and I say, well, it's just, you know, it's just, it's just there. It's fine. Easier said than done, of course we get that. But in the end, this is such an important concept to embrace that like these two guys either either steering me into the wall intentionally because there's something wrong with them or it is actually possible that I may be able to build that kind of relationship where I might shrug my shoulders at one day too. Because everybody that was struggling with the idea that they can handle that special fear one day thought they couldn't until they could until they did. So don't forget that, you know. Where are we 27 minutes? Let's see what else we have. Do you have anything that popped into your head? I know the comments are just streaming by here. Let's see here. Oh, let's pop this up. It's a good question from Amy. Is all OCD the same OCD like it is with anxiety? Is all fear the same? That's a good question. So for me, you know, when we say we don't really talk about the symptoms or the context of whatever someone's going through, you know, I kind of imagined in my head where, you know, we pop up all these different themes like really vent OCD, harm OCD, hit and run, whatever it is. And I just kind of imagine like a funnel, all funnels down to the exact same thing and the same thing usually is uncertainty. That's what people really, really are nervous or scared about is the thing that they don't know. It's usually not the thing that they know for sure. It's the thing they don't know. And so when we kind of see it simply, which is hard to do because it's like, no, but mine's different. It's much easier to manage to say I'm doing exposure work on uncertainty and practicing being okay, not knowing right now and taking that leap of faith like we mentioned earlier to keep moving forward. And because it can feel very daunting to be like, okay, good. I got past this one, but the new one came up. Oh, I got past this one. Oh, but the new one. But you're like, actually, it's not really the new one. It's the same thing just in a different costume. And we're going to treat it the same as everything else. I did a podcast episode a couple of years ago entitled All Your Fears Are One Fear. It was one of the most popular episodes I ever did. If you go to my website, you can search for that. But it talks about that. And I think I love when you say like, well, I'm not, what I'm dealing with is I'm practicing with uncertainty. So a lot of people will think, oh, I'm practicing now with this thought or I'm practicing now with the symptom. No, you're really just practicing with uncertainty and fear in general. Just happens to be triggered today by that thought or that symptom, which is to me, I find that a useful way to sort of reframe that. I'm not exposing myself to this thought or this symptom. I'm exposing myself to the feeling I get because of it. So sometimes I can help. So interesting that all fears are really the same. They kind of are in the end. Let's talk for a second because I know that there's a ton, a ton of, oh, Reed Wilson, we have a Reed Wilson comment, which is always a good thing to get. But let's talk for a second because I know that there's a whole bunch of people, you know, that everybody wants us to address their particular thing. So what do you tell somebody who is sort of new to this that's saying, hey, listen, this is a great talk, but can you please tell me about my specific thing? Where do they get, where do you go from here? It's always, it's a million dollar question. I get it. I don't mean, I'm sorry, but you know, what can you do? Because it always goes back to that. Like how does this relate to my thing? I mean, that's what this is all about. What we're talking about is, how does this relate to mine? And when you do think of it kind of like that funnel, then you think, you know, maybe it's not really about, you know, the Hormocity or the thing I did when I was 18 or, you know, whatever it is, it's not really about that. It's that my brain is throwing out a fault signal and my body's falling for it because that's just what it's designed to do. And so for people, you know, we say tolerate uncertainty. I saw a bunch of comments of people saying, it's hard to buy into that or I haven't bought into that yet. I kind of go back to the basics of like think of or you spend your day write down all the things you are uncertain about that you're doing. You know, I drove a car today. I didn't even think about it, but I was uncertain if I was going to get in a car crash or not. Like I didn't even think about it or drink water and I didn't choke on it. Like I don't know, it's just little things throughout the whole day we're so uncertain about what we just do it anyway. And you'll realize you have hundreds and hundreds of things you do every day that are uncertain. And when we start recognizing that we're like, this actually is no different than that, even though it feels like that. But to get it to feel like all the rest, we just keep doing it anyway. Just keep living life anyway. And it falls into the rest of it. That's solid advice. I would say I would add to that for those of you who and unfortunately we can't answer every possible question in a short video, but when you're desperate to have someone like Nathan or someone like me address your specific question about your symptom or your thought, think about it as do I really, am I asking a question about the fear of passing out or the fear of being out of breath or the fear of harming somebody or am I just asking a question about how to not be so afraid? Because that's really the question you're answering. So bring it back to that what's underneath the thought or the symptom and then you start to get what the principles are here and then you got to start to learn what we're talking about. So it's a big deal. There's a lot to learn and there's a lot to a lot of there's a lot of mindset that goes in changing in this like I really got to put my brain around this stuff. But it is what it is. So to answer the question. Yes. Even the scariest thoughts we approach the same way in the scariest symptoms. Anything else you want to throw in here, Nathan, before we sort of wrap it up? Yeah, I loved one of the last comments here. Like we do recover. Yeah, that's Sandy. I know Sandy's good. That's true. That's that's hope. That's hope. It is. It is. It happens. People do get better and I know I've been fortunate and then certainly Nathan has a very large audience too. We've been fortunate to see people who worse convinced that they were never going to get better who wound up actually getting better. So there's a lot of inspiration there and a lot of hope there. So it's been great. We'll have to definitely do this again for those of you who are watching from my neck of the woods. This is where you will find Nathan at ocd-anxiety.com and all of his stuff is there. And if you're not following one, you totally should be because he knows what he's talking about is just a good guy. And for those of you who are coming from Nathan's neck of the woods, this is where you're going to find me at the anxious truth.com. And thanks everybody. This is where you will stay on my channel and on Nathan's channel. I believe it will stay forever. So you can come back and re-watch anytime you want and we'll do more of these down the road for sure. Yeah, I appreciate it.