 Welcome back to the nonprofit show. I'm just assuming all of you have joined us previously, but if you haven't, and this is your first time finding us or joining us, welcome. We're so glad that you're here. This week is a little different than all of our previous episodes because it is a nonprofit Power Week and it is dedicated solely to your part-time controller and so many amazing representatives from their team. In fact, five of them will be joining us this week. Sorry, yesterday we kicked off with Hatsy and it was a wonderful conversation. Today will be also equally as wonderful. So thank you for joining us. We have Teresa Henderson with us today. Teresa, we like to call it the hot seat but it's really nothing to be afraid of. It's a wonderful conversation. You're the expert in this. And Teresa joins us from your part-time controller and she's here to talk to us about associations and your nonprofit. And how they might be a little different and how we just talk about associations and the management that goes into it. So Julia Patrick is here with me. I'm so glad that you're here for the conversation. Julia is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and deserves all the props and kudos for having this wonderful vision of the nonprofit show. I get to play alongside Julia day in and day out as the co-host. I'm Jarrett Ransom, also known as her personal nonprofit nerd. But I could be yours as well. And we are immensely grateful to have the continued support from all of our amazing sponsors. So thank you. Huge shout out of gratitude to our friends at National University with Fundraising Academy. Also to Bloomerang, of course, to your part-time controller. Again, where this is a dedicated Power Week and where Teresa joins us from. Also thank you to nonprofit thought leader, American Nonprofit Academy, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk. If you haven't checked out these companies, do that as soon as the show is over because they have helped us to produce nearly 900 episodes coming up on our 900th in October. But if you missed any of our previous episodes, including yesterday with Hatsi as we talked about NICRA, which my note, my cheat sheet here, right? Negotiated indirect cost rate agreement. And so you can find that episode on our app. I know, it gives you all the warm fuzzies. It's just like a pumpkin spice latte. So you can download the app and you can find all of our episodes there. You can also find us on streaming broadcast as well as podcast platform. So enough about that. More about you, Teresa. Thrilled to have you joining us. So again, for those of you watching and listening, we are thrilled to have with us today, Teresa Henderson. This is a heck of a title, Teresa. So association specialization leader at your part-time controller, welcome to you. Thank you, thank you. Excited to be here. Yeah, and I'm curious, do you ever, just like we refer to your part-time controller as YPTC, do you ever just, you know, ASL is your title, association specialization leader? That's a great idea. I have not come up with an abbreviation just yet, but now you've officially given me the task to do so. Well, talk to us then before we, like as Jared said, turn up the fire in the hot seat that you're sitting in today. Talk to us about what association specialization means and how YPTC is leaning into this because it's, I mentioned this to you in the green room. You know, we think of, you know, an organization like yours as bean counters and you're just in the back room, you know, doing the books, not so much. Talk to us about what you're doing. So sure, so we are definitely still bean counters. We love counting our beans. But, and I will say that for associations, YPTC is really, we're in our 30th year and we're really leaning into, I like the way that you said that, leaning into concentrating the knowledge base around certain areas that we've always worked with. So we've always worked with associations. In fact, I've been with YPTC for 10 years and my first few clients in the very beginning were associations. And so we've always worked with them, but now what we're trying to do is kind of internally create if you like to think about it as centers of excellence, right, where we're pooling all the people who have really deep experiences and helping us internally, formalizing how we help each other internally, but then also helping clients and potential clients understand what are some of the challenges that happen within specific lines of nonprofit world and in the area that I work with as associations. Wow, I love that. And I, and thank you for bringing up the 30 years of business because that is an incredible accomplishment, especially in our sector, because as we use you know, and I'm sure anybody watching or listening to this knows or it has been realizing, the accounting practice and procedures and processes are different from for-profit to nonprofit. And sometimes it's just nomenclature and it's a different word that we use, but I love this concept and I think this is gonna be a really interesting conversation with you because there's a lot going on with associations and everybody and we are no different on the nonprofit show. We've been talking a lot about technology, a lot. We started talking about it, you know, at the pandemic point because it was like the way it was our savior to get us, you know, operating and moving forward. Now things are a little different. We're coming out of this. Talk to us about the synergy between associations and technology and that's, this is somewhat of a thing I'm not familiar with. Sure, sure. So associations tend to, so if you think about associations, they're really about bringing people together, right? And supporting different groups of people and in particular areas. So in professional organizations, supporting people within professions, so like accountants like myself and medical, there's a lot of different medical associations. And so they support, help them with their professional credentialing. They help with networking, with education. And so that means that they have to retain and synthesize and make available a lot of information. And that's really done via technology. And so while not all associations have what I'm about to talk about, many have what is called an association management software system that forms kind of the basis of their information system. So it tracks information about dues and about conference registrations and their credentials. And that really forms, like I said, kind of the basis of their operation and is very closely aligned with how they implement their mission, meaning how they meet the needs of their members. Theresa, that sounds like a lot of different transactions and can get kind of like garbily goop. That's gonna be my official term for that, right? But it sounds like this system really is designed specifically for associations because I personally have not been involved in a system that tracks all of those variations. Yeah, that's right. And for folks that work with nonprofits, it might be analogous, if you think about it, it's a little bit analogous to the donor management system, but keep so much more information. And kind of if you compare a charitable organization and an association of the same size, probably the number of transactions they have to handle on a given day. So there's so much more for association. So I think the median number of members for associations that there are so many different kinds, but median number may be between 2,000 and 4,000 members. Those members might pay on a monthly basis. So just the sheer volume of transactions that they have to manage. And for me as an accountant, I'm used to the general ledger being the main system of record, right? That's my buddy, that's my best friend. This is the GML, right? But in an association, it's that really the association management software that's got most of the information. So that's another thing for me to make sure that I'm factoring in when I'm trying to do my job as an accountant. You know, I am so floored by the advancement of technology. And I feel like I say this almost weekly, but going to more and more conferences in the last two years, seeing how technology is really, I'm gonna say leading our sector, right? Like really leading our sector. I'm imagining there is some special budgeting, some special cash flows that we need to consider. What does this look like as we look from the lens of the association, Teresa? Sure, sure. So kind of when you talk about conferences and we talk about dues and members, those cash flows typically come in for associations. They might come in in periods and big periods, right? So maybe if all your dues are being renewed in January, you might get a big influx of cash in January. And you have to plan and make sure that that meets your needs for all year long. Same thing with events that you might be hosting. Again, maybe you have to put money out ahead of time and then you're going to sell tickets or sell registrations and it'll kind of pay you back for what you've already put out. So for associations, they have to think very carefully about planning their cash flow. So it may not be enough for them just to develop one operating budget. They might have to make sure that they're thinking about how can I allocate that budget, at least in quarters and ideally each month? When am I going to get cash coming in? When am I going to have cash flowing out? Those are things that it just really helps in terms of trying to make sure that they can do what they want to do. And then to your point about technology, they also have to think about, what do I need to set aside in terms of reserves or to build something so that I can plan for the future, so that I can make those kinds of larger investments that I need to make. You know, it's so interesting because I think that, and you brought this up, it was brilliant. Just the medical profession, the number of associations are vast and sometimes they are so obscure, but you got to believe they really help those members. And I'm wondering if you see this ecosystem changing and growing for the nonprofit sector? Because so many of us, I mean, we all know AFP, Association of Fundraising Professionals, but you know, they're not a lot of associations, so to speak, compared to other sectors. And so I'm wondering if you could talk to us about what you're seeing specifically for the nonprofit sector and chapters and affiliates and some of that growth that can ultimately help support our sector. That's a great point. And one thing I'll say is that after a couple of years, and I think a lot of people are experiencing across a lot of different industries, right? But how much the activity has rebound since the pandemic, right? I mean, associations are all about bringing people together. And I think they went through a crisis period when you plan ahead a year in advance to try to have a conference and anyone who had a conference after March, 2020, that was very scary for them and whether or not they were able to make it through. And many associations were able to make it through those lean times, again, with that budget and planning and making sure they were able to have reserves. And now they're really rebounding and attracting new members. And now, and maybe even trying to expand their membership and think creatively about membership, how can they have different kinds? And in terms of the number of associations, there is an association for everything, including an association for associations, right? I've spoken to them before. Yeah, this is one of my favorites, the association of association. Absolutely, a great resource for anyone who wants to learn how to be a better association professional, right? So there are associations for everything. And I think any association that's trying to, again, trying to meet a particular need of a particular audience, they have a lot of things they can use as resources to help them reach those audiences. There's a whole, I wanna say infrastructure, there's a lot of resources for associations in terms of, we've already talked about technology, but marketing, membership, how do you think about dues pricing? There's a whole infrastructure ecosystem. I think that's what I'm trying to say for helping associations do what they do better. So that would be helpful for any association that was trying to reach a new particular more segmented audience, I would think. You know, Teresa, I love that you mentioned that. I was privileged enough to lead a strategic planning retreat for an association. And that, I wanna say the majority of the conversation of course was around membership. How do we attract new members? How do we market to a younger professional, right? And even beyond those that they have typically marketed to. And so really looking at innovation. And I love seeing how tons of organizations, associations included are really looking at innovative ways to attract new individuals, new perspectives, new lens into the associations. I can only imagine why PTC sees this from the global level because you yourself, I believe you said you're in the DC area, you have representatives on your team across the nation at YPTC. What are you seeing by way of innovation? This is a curveball question, right? But what are you seeing by way of innovation specifically in our association areas? Great question, yeah. That is a great question. One thing that I think is interesting is now how, again, coming out of the pandemic, we weren't quite sure what was gonna happen when we were gathering together. Will people continue with in-person? Will they cut out the remote? And I think it's been interesting to see how they're combining in-person and remote activities so that maybe people can't fly across the country for a day or two-day meeting, but there are people who still wanna do that. So combining the opportunities for people to still get that education, to still get that net, and to still also do that networking. And I think you also hit the nail on the head with trying to say how are they attracting, but also not just attracting, but engaging the younger members so that they can ensure that their mission and how people are engaged and how people are helping and support their mission really can extend into the future. So many associations have kind of a, and I am in this set, so there's no shade to what I'm saying, but so many associations are dealing with median age folks who are in their 50s, and that's not sustainable, right? You've gotta engage younger people. So a lot of activity is around trying to make sure they're engaging and that they have a viable organization going into the future. There's so much to unpack in what you said. We've talked again here at the nonprofit show nearly 900 episodes, and really how to attract, and as you said, engage multi-generations. And if anyone has the recipe for that, right, that is just going to reach the pinnacle of success, yes, please let us know. We'd love to have you here. How are you seeing this really take shape across the nation? Because with associations, right, we're really looking at this from a very broad perspective, local versus regional, national. Talk to us about the associations as it relates to different geographies. Yeah, as it relates to, I just wanna say, just kind of going back to one other thing is technology. I think that's kind of, that's connecting a lot of and engaging and interesting a lot of younger people. And younger people almost seem to know and sort of intuitively how to engage and might be doing some of the more forward thinking ways to engage like AI and chat GPT and all those kinds of things into the normal work process. And I think, again, that's probably true on a local level as well when we think about how do we make, that's really where all the work is done, right? So in the national office, they're trying to make sure they're tracking all the information about their members, but their actual members live in localities. They engage, they attend meetings, they get to know each other on a local level. And so that's really where, that's really important. That's what another, I won't say struggle, but another emphasis that most associations really have to focus on is, how do they make sure that their local members are getting the information they need and are they are given the platform and the resources that they need in order to be able to, to again, further the mission, learn more about whatever their industry is, learn more about whatever their profession is. Local level is really where all that activity is taking place. So then let me ask a follow-up question to kind of to what Jared had asked previously. And again, another curveball, get that capture is met up. Do you find that within our nation that there are cultural differences or regional pockets where communities are more apt to be involved in something like this or where other parts of the country where they're like, yeah, we don't really need this? Do you know what I'm saying? Because there's a social construct to this. Yeah, I do think that, I have worked with several lately, several kind of national offices trying to make sure that they're keeping track of what's happening on the local level. Sorry, I'm trying to keep track of what's happening on the local level. And there definitely are differences, meaning in terms of the size and the level of the types of activities, meaning some larger cities, as you might imagine, there are more people. And again, it kind of depends on what the association does. But wherever I guess I would say the center of activity is for that profession or that type of industry, though the local levels are larger, those events are larger in those areas, right? But then in other areas, maybe not as much. I won't necessarily say that it's not needed, but it's just how many people they're able to bring together. And so then that dictates how much resources they have, how big their activities are. But it really does depend. I mean, there are associations for more rural type activities and then maybe it's not as big in New York or Chicago because there's not as much activity happening there. So it really does depend on what industry and profession that industry is focused on and where the activity is going to be the busiest and the most active. So then my follow up question to you along those lines is we're coming out at this time of tremendous change and our budgets have changed and maybe we're like, okay, we're ready to go back out. We're ready to invest in this. How would we as a nonprofit look to see if a certain association is gonna be a good fit? Like how do we, if you will shop it, right? Because it's kind of one of those things that in our sector, there hasn't been a lot of choice. I feel like what is the ROI of association membership, right? Like how do we value or define success of that? Yeah, that's a great question and probably because Jared just came from a strategic planning, you've got that kind of question on your mind but that is really one of the things that distinguishes I think a successful association in terms of attracting members is can they, do they understand their own value and what value they are bringing to their members? And again, kind of going back to that technology, sometimes those association management systems helps to understand what do members really like? What do members really get value from? So understanding themselves, what value they're bringing to their membership and then being able to communicate that to not only their members but to the public and to people who are maybe just outside, are they hosting events that might attract people who are adjacent to the immediate area that you're focused on? So accountants maybe technology people because accountants have to use technology systems. So are you communicating your message in a way that not just your core but then people right outside your core that might also benefit from the information? So it's kind of incumbent upon I think the association to get the word out but if you're looking into it, you can hit that Google and just say, I'm interested in, I'm a nonprofit professional and I wanna know more about, and you said there's a fundraising and we know there's a fundraising association but if I'm a nonprofit CFO or if I'm a nonprofit grant manager those associations do exist and so if you're trying to find one that helps to match your skills, Google it and then you reach out to that national association and they can connect you to that local level because that's really again where you get a lot of benefit where you get to meet other people who are doing what you're doing and you get to talk to them kind of face to face and so just some Google searches basically and then follow up and do your research. Great response and really as we look at really wrapping up today's conversation I just, I feel like it's so important to mention many of our US workforce is now distributed, right? So looking at what are the offerings of the association as you had mentioned earlier, Teresa are they in person, are they remote are they offering a hybrid or as I've learned this asynchronous, right? Which I think we've all probably learned as well over the last three years. So really looking at too, how will we as a person and a professional be most engaged with that association, right? Are we looking for more in person or are we really looking for that remote? You know, again at this conference there were so many staff members that worked across the nation that we're also getting together in person for this conference and I imagine YPTC says sees the same as you're in DC I forget where Hatsi was joining us but we have five of amazing leaders from YPTC joining us this week across the nation again, in a distributed workplace. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's interesting I think I have gone to annual meetings before I've gone to conferences over my lifetime but I think that kind of the joy that we see when people get together in person now is it's just heightened. Is that a new level? Just because we have been kind of remote and still for a lot of us we still do work remote like you said in a kind of distributed way I work with Hatsi I get to see her actually a couple of times a week sometimes via this method, right? But then seeing her in person it's a whole another level of excitement and joy. So I think, you know, again, associations with one of their key responsibilities being to bring people together that's something that they're keeping in mind is both things are good and have helped them to succeed. Yeah. Well, you've been a joy and you've really brought us together today on this amazing part of day two of Nonprofit Power Week. Again, Teresa Henderson Association Specialization Leader coming to us from DC when you were first on with us two years ago you came to us from Houston now you're in DC and you can check out what Teresa and her team are doing at yptc.com. Somebody asked yesterday, Jared, if the slide deck was gonna be available and how they could get back to this and we have our methodology through the Nonprofit Show but shortly yptc.com will also put up these episodes on their website along with many, many other things that they do. They have amazing resources specifically for the nonprofit sector and it is free. There's no gatekeeper there in a technological way. So check them out. Why- And real quick, Julia. So yesterday's show, I just saw, thank you is up on the yptc.com website already. So you can find it not only at our broadcast archives but also here at the website we're showing. But for those of you listening, it is yptc.com. You can hear Hatsi's conversation with us yesterday as we talk about NICRA. Today's conversation with Teresa will be up in just a couple of hours and then look at this lineup for the rest of the week. So we've got some really amazing leaders in our sector, thrilled. I'm honestly thrilled that today's only Tuesday because I mean, we still have so much more to come. Teresa, thank you for shining your light on associations. As Julia said, I don't believe we've done a dedicated show on this. So I love that there's a center of excellence within yptc focusing on this. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. It really, really has been a lot of fun and we're thrilled, Teresa, that you would come on and give us a different way to look at this. I think it's been a lot of fun. You guys make it easy for people who are accountants like me to even talk about this stuff, so. Well, we have never been let down by yptc. We will tell you that. I mean, seriously, each and every representative, I know that I really was bragging about the team yesterday and I'm not gonna stop because every one of you really is remarkable. So you make our days easy because the conversations just flow and I've witnessed this before. Finance, accounting is not my bailiwick. It is not my jam, a nerd I am, but really not within accounting. So I love, and this is a compliment, Teresa, that you have on your nerd glasses today because we need all of you to really be here for our sector because as we mentioned earlier, it's different. Our nonprofit community and sector and accounting is different than the for-profit community and sector. It really is. And we learn that all the time, as Jarrett mentioned, about the differences. And as we wrap up, we wanna make sure that we extend our gratitude to those that sponsor us and the nonprofit show because without them, we wouldn't have these conversations. Our partners include Fundraising Academy at National University, Bloomerang, Your Part-Time Controller, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staff and Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. Again, these are the folks that are with us day in and day out to help guide these conversations that really strengthen the nonprofits that we support across our nation. Okay, Jarrett, day two of Nonprofit Power Week. Super cool, don't you think? I know. I always look forward to Nonprofit Power Weeks having these conversations that really dive deeper into an organization, a topic, and again, every single topic this week as well as all of our shows, they deal with everything, the ins and the outs as it relates to nonprofits. So thank you for joining us, Teresa, and to Hatsi yesterday and the amazing leaders from YPTC that will be back tomorrow. Thanks for all of you that also joined us. We are thrilled that you're here. We invite you back tomorrow and as we end every single day, we invite you, encourage you and remind you to stay well so you can do well. Thank you, Teresa, and we'll see everyone else tomorrow.