 start. Stop chatting, start chatting. Well, we are live. We are here to chat about the whole realm of the elderlings. I said on my Instagram story, and I was just catching up Mara on like, I have a lot of potential noise going on outside because the water main broke. So I will do my best to mute myself more than usual, because, you know, sirens and what not. So I'll just get for living in the big city. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. Also, I'm painting my nails to people who are watching. So that's why I'm looking down. It's not because I fear contact. I contact because you're blinded by my stunning beauty that you can't even look. There is always that. But I'm also just for some reason, live streaming and painting my nails feels just like a very like, I don't know, it makes me feel like we're having a hot goss. Which also can be part of it sometimes. Yes, for sure. I just thought you were kind of trying to embody the emoji of like, you know, painting nails. Yeah, it is literally it is literally that. Because it's just I don't know. It feels chatty. Also, I'm wearing my puffy shirt because I'm I'm hobbounding today. I'm cosplaying as out there. I was gonna say who specifically out there. I'm Matthew. I like her. I am cosplaying as a fan of first law, because I'm not actually one. Well, that's not even cosplaying. That's just uniform. Basically, there's no pretend with that. Instead of like actually bringing up first law, I guess this counts as bringing up first law, but like, I don't have to bring it up in the conversation. I just like am constantly representing just point at your chest whenever you know, you're you're ready to reference it. You just it's right there ready to go like a little sign. Yes, you're turning in the glam. Yes, this is my tuning into the glam. Yeah. Or is this impressed at your multitasking? Yeah, well, actually, I I've had to tell this to most of my bosses and actually my professor back in the day, because I used to like bring Sudoku to their class. It's very hard for me to focus on people are saying if I don't have something to do with my hands. So it actually helps me focus if I'm like, sewing or doodling or painting my nails whatever helps me focus a little bit better. Although nail painting in a classroom might be disruptive to other people. You know, the smell is not everyone's favorite. So I get it. Or even I mean, it's actually more concerning if it is someone's favorite smell, because you probably should avoid smelling it. That's why it's a pleasantest to warn you that you shouldn't be sniffing it. Yeah, I mean, it's a natural reaction of like, hey, this is a chemical probably don't stick your face and smell this one up close. Yeah. All right, well, realm of the older lakes. And now the end is near. And so I face. Yeah. We're we did it. We did it. I can't believe that like I just I just not like, to me, it hasn't really registered that there aren't more books. I yeah, especially because we already have other buddy reads planned. It's not like we're stopping buddy reading, but it is definitely the longest series of long books I've ever read. Like I've read longer series. Hello, in death series where I'm book like 57, I think. But those are like much easier to get through. This is definitely the longest like chunky page length and like meaty substance I've ever read. I don't know how the in death series is, but I was going to say like, all the only other times I've read this many books that are in a series is usually if it's been like an episodic series, like the Nancy Drew books where it's an it self contained mystery every time. So it's not like a continuous. Yeah, or like poro, I think has 30 some, but those are pretty self contained. The side changeling series were on book. I should know this somewhere in the 20s, which is an ongoing series, but each book focuses on two characters. So it feels a little more self contained. But yeah, and they're also not as substantive as this series is. No, this is a long series and the books in it are long. And they're like all worthy of a full on dissertation. Yeah, there's a lot to consider with each of the books. Yeah, they're not really casual reads. No, though I do you want to tell the story about how we read this last series? Well, I started ahead of the game and then fell behind. I read the first one, I was like, Mara, we cannot wait to read the rest. And you were like, Okay, and then immediately finished the next two. And I was like, Okay, whoa. I couldn't stop reading them. These are like, I feel like the full experience we've had has been like building up my muscles to be able to do a binge read of a Hobb series. I was so proud of myself. Yeah, so but I, I fell a little behind, but we did essentially like, very quickly, a few weeks of each other, we were, yeah, yeah, like I didn't quite finish it all in February. I read like the I finished the last one in like the first week of March or something. Yeah, but very early. I read all three in about two weeks and it was a hangover a couple weeks. Yeah, it was a lot. There was a lot, a lot of pages, a lot of book to read in just a few weeks. So So yeah, I was going to say, I don't know the answer to this question, but it looks like as usual, dairy's got us covered. Every time she posts, she's ready to get super exciting. Her last post asked to be or not to be. Oh, I should have worn my B sweatshirt. I think it's in the wash. Oh, yeah, that was a mess up on your part. Yeah, I somebody in my comments told me that we are going to get a B series possibly if she finishes it and is happy with it. Oh, this makes sense if she was writing a plague centric B story and then was like, Oh, interesting. Okay. Well, I definitely leaves the door open, I think for B to be our next point of like main character. Yeah. Or also, I mean, there's like several next gen people because like, you know, that is true. Nettles kid. Oh, yeah. You I mean, you know how I am with names. I feel like I'm doing good that I've got B fits. Get your kid. I got a couple of them. If you don't remember fits his name after 16 books that I would be worried. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she's a tofer. Yeah. I really hope we get that because oh, no, well, hopefully you're okay with spoilers. I know some people are really sensitive about spoilers. I don't really I'm not that fussed about spoilers because to me it's about the journey, not necessarily the destination. I think it depends on the kind of story. Yeah. Like I'd be pretty. I think we could tell somebody everything that happens in these books and they would still be well worth reading there. I think there would be no point in watching an M. Night Shyamalan movie if you got spoiled because the only point of seeing a movie like that is to be like, what a twist. But like, yeah, yeah, it's not like there's not layers to like engage with. So in that sense, I'd be pretty bad if I was going to see a kind of like dumb thriller that has a big twist and got spoiled. I was like, well, there's no point in me seeing this now. But like, yeah, I think like a mystery book in general, like I get that, you know, you don't want to spoiler, but like people will talk about like you spoiled that romance novel and I'm like, it's literally in the genre that they're going to fall in love. I don't know what to tell you if you think that's a spoiler. Yeah. Yeah, that's certainly serious that like I'd be pretty mad if I got spoiled. And I think they're having serious that I was spoiled for and I was mad about it. Well, I know what's going to happen in Game of Thrones just because of awesome. It's like, yeah. And also like, I have so many friends who love it. But if he ever actually finishes writing that series, which I don't believe will happen. But if he does, then I would go back and read the whole thing and I wouldn't know what's going to happen. So as to not spoil anyone that doesn't actually know. But I did actually spoil myself for one of the big things that happens in Storm of Swords. There's probably what you were referring to for at least some part of me saying, you know, what happens. I actually had spoiled. I was just talking about main. I haven't I actually haven't heard really much of anything about the. Oh, in Storm, sorry, sorry, sorry. Storm of Swords. Yes. I. Yes. We're talking about the same thing. Yeah, the the festivation. The festivation. So like I actually. So I hadn't spoiled myself for any like specifics about the circumstances, but I had spoiled myself for the fate of a character because like I was googling early on like, why isn't this a POV character and like had accidentally found out the fate of that character. But then by the time I got to that book, I had forgotten it. Yeah. And then I read it. You know, then I read the part and I was like, oh, I did actually think I did actually know this, but like, I'm so upset because I still didn't see it coming. Yeah. Yeah. I there. So it was killing me when I was doing my side changeling. So I mean, it's an ongoing podcast just because there are still books being released. But when I was doing the main part of the side changeling series, it was killing me because there's this big like mystery in the first 10 books. And I was being so careful to not spoil it for people, but it leads up to the 11th book, which is my favorite book in the entire series that has my favorite characters and it centers around revealing that mystery. So like when I was finally allowed to actually just talk about it, I was beside myself and didn't even know how to do it. I was like, wait, could I OK, I can just say it. I can say why I love this and why I love this person or whatever. So I also think spoilers are a bad thing if a book or series like it's not just like a twist. It's that like part of the experience of reading it is like you being fully committed to believing what's happening and that the revelation that what you thought was happening was not actually what was happening and that like it's supposed to like subvert and now like recontextualize everything you thought you knew because you're like that's actually not what's been happening. Like that kind of a book like you would be ruined if like part of like they wanted to guide you through like the revelation of like I took for granted that this was true and it's not true kind of thing. Yes. Yeah. This the one I'm talking about is definitely a oh, wow, this totally re jiggers how I even think about the first 10 books of this series. If I if you had I think a lot of people guess or have an idea of what it could be. But if you don't know that it totally recontextualizes that entire first run of the series. So anyway, we haven't actually even talked about these books. We haven't really. So to that, I don't think there's anything in the elderlings that like if I knew it would make me go like well that ruined it knowing this because now I don't think there's anything really I don't think there's any because it's so theme and character driven, I feel like and writing driven. I don't think that you can have the experience room for you even if we sat here and gave you a synopsis. So and which is good because I frankly probably don't remember a lot of the plot at this point. I remember my feelings and I remember the plot is my eyes. The plot is how can Mara be driven to be an absolute tatters at some point by the end of each book. Yeah. OK, yeah. So if the story hinges on destination spoilers sucks, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That is true. So question for us, was B's existence unspoiled? For me, certainly I had no idea. And how did you feel about getting a second POV? So I had heard her name, but I didn't know who she was. Like I'd heard people refer to be, but I had no context of who that was or her significance. And I definitely didn't know that we were getting a second point of view. If I did hear it, which I didn't, I don't think that I did. But if I did, I might have like not even registered that B is the name of a person rather than like the lowercase B E word. Well, I heard different like kind of illusions to when B shows up. So I was like, I don't know who that is, but OK, I guess B is coming at some point. But I guess so I guess I was spoiled in the sense of when B actually does show up. I was aware she's a very significant character, but I think I would have been aware of that anyway, since she's, you know, the child of Molly and Fitz after this like the matter of her. Yeah, the matter of her coming to B is like not no pun intended. The matter of that like you would you would assume she was important. That's not. Yeah, that's how she by the time she like appears in the plot, it's like, oh, well, yeah, I could see why people would be still talking about her showing up. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know what were your. So I think because I read these so quickly and I was really reading on vibes and emotions, this was a very emotional read for me and less of a like intellectually engaged read in some ways than some of her other series have been. But I don't think you were as devastated by these. Like I cried so many times, not in the second book as much, but definitely in the first book and certainly by the end of the third. But I think you might have had a different experience. Yeah. The last trilogy of the first book like completely blew me away. I was like possible new favorite realm of the Elderling's book. Like this is like since Royal Assassin, I have not felt this high like damn. And then like I don't I mean, I gave five. I think I gave five stars. Maybe not. I'm pretty sure I gave five stars to all the books and in Vincent the fool. Fairly certain. But it was like a much like lower five stars where I was like, I have problems with some of this and I'm not a fan. The first book is definitely the best of the three, I think. Does anybody dispute that? I think it's kind of. Certainly, I'm sure someone disputes. I'm sure. It's silly question. It's the Internet, someone disagrees. But yeah, that one, I think with the I totally got once I got there, I was like, oh, well, this is why Leanna said we can't stop. It ends on such a cliffhanger. It's like, oh, God, we've got to keep going. Yeah. Yeah. But also because like in a weird way, like usually I would say this as a criticism, a book that just feels like a long prologue. But the first book does feel like a long prologue, but like the best prologue I have ever read. But it's like when you finish, you're like, well, now I need to read the story that you just prologued. So I will say, though, the way you feel about that, like that idea of like, oh, I really like this as a prologue. I feel more that way about fool's air and then you do. Not that I think it's anywhere near as good as whatever that for what are the fools. Quote assassin. Is that the first one? These books are all just words out. Actually, like all the series I can I have straight once I finish the series, I have straight what order the titles go in, but not for the last one. The last one, it's like finally just like all these words have been like reordered the same titles have the same words. They're just rearranged. And I'm like, I don't remember. Yeah, I yeah. So fools assassin, I don't think it's as good as fools air and I'm not saying that, but I do think that I have more of that feeling about fools air and of like, I just am really enjoying like catching up and finding out where we are. And like, it doesn't bother me that it takes like the plot doesn't actually really get going until the very end of either of those books because I really am interested in the plot by the time they pick up because I'm so, you know, like caught back up with the characters and all of that. So so I don't I mean, there's just like there's even with just fits in the full there's so much to talk about. And then obviously the context of the fuller of the elderlings there's so much to talk about. So like, I don't even know. Yeah, that's like the best way to start or organize this conversation. Too much scope. Well, one of the things we talked about in our buddy read was, yes, I totally agree, Dary. I. So do we want to just like jump to the end and talk about like Oh, you want people to hate me immediately? Sure. We can. OK, now we can. What are things that you think they won't hate? We can start with something that's a popular opinion. Do I have popular opinions? Well, I like the first one. Well, like, what do you think about me? Like, how do you how do you feel about her as a character and her journey, et cetera? So like I well, this is where I also feel like I have a slightly unpopular opinion because, like, by no means do I dislike B. I think she's a really like interesting character to read about. But like, I feel or maybe it's just because I've mostly talked to you and and Evie about it and the two of you are so in love with B that, like, I don't feel that way about B. Like, I don't feel like I always say she's my favorite character. I love B. I'm just like B is interesting. Yeah, that's not how I feel about you, too. I mean, I really like her. I like her for fits. If that makes sense. Like, I love who she is to fits and that he finally has a child that he got to raise for the beginning, like to be there at the beginning of her life and raise her like he's had. Oh, God, again, the names Nettle. He didn't get to raise at all. Dutiful, he gets to kind of come in and be his like teenage parent. Yeah. And also and then he kind of adopts was his name Hap says that guy's name. So he like kind of does like teenage child rearing. But like B, he finally gets like with the love of his life and this like wacky pregnancy situation that neither of them thought was possible. And he like gets to come in and like raise her and have that connection. So like I love see I love her function in the story. Yeah, exactly. I love her function in the story and I think she's a really interesting character. Like I think the stuff with gender in this final like it's always been interesting throughout the series. But the gender stuff in this is fascinating because she basically has an old ass mom who like shouldn't be able to have her. And then she has three dads. Like it's like a yep, a polycule biological fascinating commentary on the nature of parenthood and gender. So like as to this, yeah, like that's more maybe not the only thing I like about B, but like it's kind of like when Pierce Brown asked me like who my favorite characters because he always asks everybody who your favorite character is. If he's here, don't be cool. No. And I told Pierce Brown, I don't have a favorite character, but my favorite thing is that in the new books, because like the original Red Rising trilogy is all just it's like with Fitz it's everything is through Darrow's perspective. Everything is through Darrow's eyes. And in the new books, we have a lots of POVs. And so you finally see Darrow through someone else's eyes, like what other people who watch him and see what he does, what they think about it. And I was like, that's my favorite after all this time. Yeah. See him through someone else's eyes. So like the same applied in the series. Like we get based on what things people say to Fitz. We've gotten like an implication about how people view him. But yeah, like we finally get a legit like somebody outside of Fitz's very specific POV. Oh, no, you're going to have like a a bloody knife on your like stabbed into your door. It's OK. I'm not treading on your B territory. B is all yours. Yeah. We like we don't dislike B. I just she's not like she's not a favorite character in the series, but I really like what she's doing. And what happened to watching the replay, Evie? Yeah, I think the fact of B is somewhat more interesting than B herself. Like at least at this point. Yeah. If we get more books, I'm sure kind of like Fitz, like I didn't love Fitz in the original series this month. Like he was good. Like I have a weird relationship with Fitz with Fitz, considering how much I love the series as a whole. I don't think I love him the way a lot of people do and especially in that first series. Well, to me, like because I purse, I know this is like something that I like just struggle with. So that's like partly my fault, I guess. But the whole like how dare you feel sad when other people have it worse, you know, kind of like feeling and like I know that like that's not valid that like just because other people have it worse doesn't mean you can't be upset and that you can't be sad. But like it's just like there were so many times that B felt like such a spoiled brat to me. And I was like, do you know what Fitz has been through? Because like watching Fitz's childhood, I was like, you should be even sadder than you are because like I can't even fathom like living the childhood that you lived and that like when B gets all like mad that she's like not had enough attention and how dare dad pays slightly more attention. Which is like a normal child. Yeah. And I'm just like, oh good. Yeah. Get out of here. You don't even have it that bad. Well, but I yeah, I don't I don't think that bothered me with B because she just read to me like a child. Which I think bothered me because she is this like I don't think prodigy is the right word, but she's like really advanced and like really like, you know, intelligent for her age and it has like premonitions and she's just like a lot more into it about everything. And so then the fact that she's so like, dad's not paying attention to me. I'm just like, but you're smarter than this. Like, well, but I like that as attention though, because I think often these characters who are sort of like prenaturally smart or gifted as children. It's like they have she does know how bad it's had it kind of. Yeah. But like they they have like their gifts, but that's in tension with the amount of life experience they've actually had. So it's like I kind of like that as it feels realistic to me that even if you were, you know, whatever. How old is she in this 10? Yeah, something like that. Or like, you mean by the end, because like, that's a little bumbling of baby. But I mean, like, I'm thinking about my nieces, even though I would say for their ages, they're actually pretty mature. Like they're still children who haven't had a lot of life experience yet. So even if like I were to sit down and tell them the things that like their parents have been through or I've been through, it's different than having enough life experience to really contextualize that property. Finish with on your plate there's children starving in Africa. Kind of, yeah. OK. But I still don't like Brussels Brown, so I'm sorry. Like, yeah, so. But I like me. I like Fitz too. I want to be clear. I saw like Fitz. I don't hate Fitz. I'm just saying that like, I think part of what made me so emotional about this ending is we've now seen Fitz through his whole life and just like the weight of that. And I didn't have that when I first started reading his story, right? Like I'd seen his him as a child and like coming of age. But I don't know, there's something about like once the characters have gone through a lot, they just grow on me more. So as to her constantly worrying about the fact that he prioritizes the fool, I like I on some level would understand that if it's not for the fact that be witnesses Fitz stab the fool and is like, oh, my God, he's mortally wounded. I need to like save him and like get the ambulance immediately. So the fact that she's like, oh, I can't believe he prioritized him over me. It's like he's literally dying right now. Like girl, like seriously, like you don't understand why this is currently a bigger emergency than just like generally being there for you. Like get over yourself a little bit. Well, I mean, I think maybe she will as she grew. I mean, I just it's a it's a new experience for her that she maybe doesn't handle that well. Yeah, I don't know. So like that's why this is always that person where I'm like when people are like, well, the teenagers were acting immature. I'm like, well, yeah, they're fucking teenagers. Like this is like their whole deal. Like this is in general, I I'm for. Characters acting their age, even if like I can say like objectively it's annoying or whatever, I'm like, well, but yeah, like. But it's like moments like that where like I do find it a little bit difficult to believe because like, I mean, I mean, everyone is different. But I just can't imagine watching someone get stabbed and then be upset that they're getting attention and you're not like I just I can't understand how you could possibly think that like it's unfair that the person who is bleeding out and dying is getting attention right now. Like I just I don't understand. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, again, I feel like it's a really tense situation for a child to be in in general. So I can see. Wanting the comfort of your dad in that moment, like, I don't know. I just don't think it's that crazy of early and unreasonable response for a child. I guess to me and she was a grown ass woman. Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, to me, it was two things that would make it make more sense to me or make me like buy it more is like either one would be one. If like the emergency with the fool was not like immediately apparent, like you'd have to know situational context and it's not like him literally getting stabbed. There's some like deeper, like not obvious issue that is really urgent, but it would take a lot of time to explain it. And because no one's explained it to her, she's like, I don't get why the fool is a bigger priority because it would be some like magical thing that you can't literally see. But like, she saw him get stabbed. Like, it's like, OK, you can see what the emergency is. Or if she was like, I know it's unfair that I feel this way, but like, man, like I do feel kind of abandoned and like I get it, he got stabbed, like I get it. But like, I'm annoyed, you know, like, because I feel like you could feel that way, but also realize that you're being ridiculous. But again, you're an adult. I just don't. I don't think that that said I don't think that that's an unrealistic response for a child. That's just kind of. But I mean, I don't know. It's sort of like Malta. I she was so annoying in the first book of Ship of Magic. But again, but she was so young that I was like, well, but I mean, yeah, I mean, this checks out for someone their age. So I think both things for me can be true at once of like that's an annoying response. Also, I think that that's probably age appropriate. Well, so OK, I mean, I definitely don't have children. But like, I'm also thinking about myself as a child, which is, of course, unfair because other people are different. But it's just like I've come to realize that the way I was raised is really different from how arguably most people are raised and like that obviously colors how I think about things because like the idea of like you misbehaving at all, the idea of you prioritizing yourself over what's going on at all, the idea of you like lying to your parents ever even about the tiniest thing at all. I like live in like horror of the very idea of that because like I was raised by parents who were like under no circumstances. Children should be like definitely seen and sometimes heard if they have something intelligent to add to the conversation, but they will sit and they will learn and they will be silent until such time as they have something to contribute. Oh, wow. No, no, no, no. I was raised in a padded cell. No, I, my parents always like, yeah, like they wanted my opinions on things or they encouraged me to have opinions on things and whatever. Well, now I wasn't, they did, they did shame me for crying so that I will not. I was encouraged to have opinions, but like, so I'm thinking of like, you know, if there's like adults having a meal together or if there's like a very adult function going on at the community center with speeches and stuff. And it's like you will sit here and you will listen to it and you will not fidget, you will not move, you will not make a sound. And it's like other kids are in the other room watching TV because this is not for kids. My parents are like, no, you will sit here and you will watch this and someday you'll appreciate it. And like ordering off a kid's menu, not happening. You will eat with the adults eat or you will not eat at all. Like our toys that we got, it was like what my parents thought were nice toys. We did not have a say. What we, the clothes we wore, it was what my parents liked. We did not have a say. So it's like stuff like this where I'm like, I can't imagine being like, it's so unfair that the guy that got stabbed is getting attention and I'm not. Cause like I would have been, like it wouldn't have occurred to me to think that. I think that we need to do some reparenting work with you, Liana, some gentle reparenting work and to talk to five year old Liana and justify and let her know that it's okay that she's not always wanting to pay attention to what the adults say. Well, so then this is when I read like characters like this in books or honestly like, I'll admit it in real life when I, you know, talk to people or see kids and I'm just like, how could they? I would never like, I can't fathom thinking this way. And so when I read children acting like this, like you're right that is realistic for a kid to think I under, or I believe you that it's realistic for kids to think that way, but not in my experience. So I'm just like, how dare? I mean, it's interesting though, cause I think there is also a context of like how many children there are, where your parents come from, like what, what they're trying to correct from their own childhoods. Like every, I mean, everybody is raised so differently, but yeah. I don't know. I, you know, if you're ever interested in some therapy, I would suggest maybe some like, re-parenting work. There's a book called interbonding that might be good to say that it's okay for little Liana to, you know, not always toe the line. That's okay. Well, I, you know, maybe it's no accident that like what I do for a living is very like, follow the rules. These are the rules. I just thought you were a Virgo, but I mean, then I found out you were a Gemini and was like, what is going on here? I wasn't born a Virgo. I was made a Virgo. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a, what a t-shirt that, that could be somewhere right there. I was not born a Virgo. I was made a Virgo. Yeah. So like maybe that's the context where like when I react to characters this way, like I can't, I mean, that's why I kind of prefaced this by saying this is my own problem that I, I recognize, but can't help. That when I read that, I don't have a lot of patience for this kind of like attitude from characters. And I'm like, you're being unreasonable. I feel more that way with adult characters. But yeah, for kid, for kid characters and teenage characters, I actually kind of like that. Cause I'm like, yeah, that's how a child would actually respond in this situation. This is like the, for instance, the conceit of middle grade is that like no, no adults ever are responsible for looking after the children that they're in charge of. And at some point I just had to like let that go of like, this is just a conceit of this level of, They would never have adventures if there was responsible parents around. Well, exactly. But I'm always just like, That's why I never had adventures. Like these parents are horrible. But I think this is why like Fitz's childhood absolutely works for me cause he's surrounded by authority figures that are like, if you take a step out of lying, you die. And I'm like, this, yes, this checks out. And Fitz is responsible like, yes, sir, whatever you say. I'm like, yes, this is how you react. This is how it is being. That child spirit and the sense of curiosity. It's not even like, I don't think what's happening to him is good, but like he's never, Fitz is never acting like, it's so unfair in a way. And if he did be justified because he's being treated horribly, but I'm just like reacting in a way that I'm like, yes. He, he kind of goes the, yeah, he and B kind of have opposite responses. Yeah. Cause he really should have more sense of like, this is really unfair. And he like really internalizes that that he like deserves for bad things to happen to him basically throughout his life. Well, it's also like until you have someone else that is in a similar situation to compare yourself to, you don't really know that it's not fair because you're just like, this is how it is. Like there's no, like no example for you to be like, well actually my life should be like that. Cause like if there isn't one, then you're just like, this is just how it is. But this is part of why I'm fascinated about like the tenacity of the human spirit because like think about people who are raised in like super authoritarian cults. And yet still there are always ones of them that run away and like always ones of them that are rebelling because something in them is just like, this is not right. Well, that, or I think like there comes a point of like breaking where it's like, you're willing to accept that this is how it is up to a point. And then you hit a point where you're like, even if this is how it is, and even if I believe that this is how it like quote, unquote, like should be, I can't take it. I can't take it. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Darius mentioning one of the things I loved of this. I was obsessed. I loved that. I loved all, I think she also was asking us questions earlier about like, is it fan service to have all these characters coming back in? For me, no. Because for me, this is like, it's all. Avengers assemble. Just like that it felt like that if we never got another B book, to me, this is like bringing all of the series together and like showing the interconnections and like, plus I also love that side of the series in general. So like, I'm always happy when they show up, but I love that. And I did love that moment before being like, awkward. Well, I just also like the characters that look at fits and because they've seen Paragon for so long, they're like, you look familiar. The math is math it now. You're the guy. The guy, what guy? The guy. I would really love to see a movie of that scene. Like I would love to see that scene played out. IRL that was very entertaining. Yeah. But yeah, okay. So like enough about my childhood, we can talk about the plot of the book. We can talk about mine. No. Yeah. So what did you think about the ending? Okay. So now that I've got the pity vote, no one can be mad at me. Yeah. So I was talking to you at length about like specifics about the ending that like really irritated me and how like it would have, something similar could have happened that would have worked a lot better for me. But the way that we have like, so like so many parts that bother me. So like, first of all, the way that it does, like when you're talking about fan service, and I agree that it mostly doesn't feel like fan service. It just feels like, oh, it's great to see these stories finally, like kind of crossing over. But it does feel like, I don't know if fan service is the word I would use for it, but it certainly feels like very, like breaking the rules and making special exceptions for like the way that everyone's able to gather around dying fits. I was like, oh my God, this is so unreal that they're able to like all get there and be at his bedside as he's, I'm just like, I can't with this. And then like, that's all gets really dragged out. They don't just like, they had gotten there in the nick of time and he's like just about to die. So we can say, oh, farewell, die. Like, okay, maybe it would still be kind of like, why is everyone here? But that gets, they are all camped out there with him for so long. This goes on and on and on. And like, and his death is gruesome. Like it's certainly gruesome to like, behold. And it's like this like long extended suffering. And then like, I just, it would have been so much more powerful to me if like they had not realized that Fitz made it out at all and had not gotten there in time and that he had carved himself into the stone. And then like we get an epilogue of like years later, either the fool or be or both of them together come upon the stone and realize that Fitz did get out and made it here and put himself into the stone. So they're able to find a piece of Fitz. They never thought they'd be able to find because he did that all on his own alone. And no one had found him in time to say goodbye. Where like that would be this like moment of catharsis of like we still have a piece of Fitz that we found. But this like long drawn out watching him do it and then bringing the fool into it with him and like leaving be orphaned. And like this was, I don't, I was supposed to find that ending horrific. Well, that I did. Cause I did not feel like, oh, you know, like bitter sweet ending. I was like, no. I feel so, I take your point. Like I definitely see where you're coming from. Like I think I agree that the death scene was awful long and it was very convenient that it's like gather round Fitz while he slowly expires. I think I definitely like where B ends up because I think just Fitz being who he is was never going to get to raise B all the way. That would just be tuna. Like in the world of Robin Hobb, like Fitz is never going to get that happy of an ending. But I do, I really, I was telling you, I really like the symmetry of basically Kettrican being the one to raise B from now on. Because again, it's sort of like mirroring like Molly raised Nettle, Kettrican raised Dutiful. And now they've both, they're both the two maternal figures for B. So like, I think that I like that as a concept. I don't. I Kettrican is even older than Fitz. And it's like she's been around for long. No, but I mean, B is like 10. Kettrican's got to make it like five to six years. I think she, I believe in her. She's very hearty. She's from the mountains. So like, I like that. And I think for me, it's not so much that it's a happy ending for Fitz and the Fool to be together forever with Night Eyes. It feels, I was reflecting on this after we had talked. It's that it feels like mythic to me. I like that it feels very, it feels like the ending of a fairy tale or a folklore, not because it's happy necessarily, but it just feels like a full circle. Like they're all coming together-ness. Like there's something about that that I do like. Which if I think, I think if this series was written more mythically, where it's written more like Tolkien, where these feel like archetypes rather than characters that I know the nitty gritty of the messy relationships they have, then I could be like, oh, like that's a grand, I mean like something like Baron and Luthien. If we actually stopped and like met these people and how their lives be and like knew their foibles and knew like everything to do with them, what makes them good, what makes them bad, what makes them human. I don't think we could enjoy a story that's like so mythic about them. So like if the story of the Realm of the Elderlings had been told in this more like the way that the, I think you've been reading the Winter Night books. If it, because that's told in a more like, yeah, it's told in a more like fairy tale arms. Like wait, if it was told that way, then I could buy it. But because this series is so like in the trenches of the psyches of these characters, then like to now have the ending take the form of something kind of like symbolic and mythic when it's all been grounded in this like really messy humanity. I'm just like, mm-mm. But counterpoint onto G4 or whatever, I don't know. Counterpoint, the part of why I think it works though, is that we get that scene in Fool's Quest. Give me remembering the name of the book where Fitz has to hear the songs that have been told about him, right? Like I think that there is this sort of meta quality introduced in Turram of the Elderlings about story and like the legacy of different tales. I think also the fact that we've gotten the willful princess and the piebald prince and then see how that like actually plays out with messy real people. I do think that there's a level of, Fitz has been living a fairy tale, like a quest. He's been living in a folklore the whole time. Like his life is such a myth. Like, and also the Thumbelina birthing feels like such a fairy tale thing, but made real. I don't know. I think that there's something, especially in this last trilogy where the things that are happening feel like they're gonna be a fairy, like a myth someday, but we're just seeing, like we are seeing Baron and Luthien before the story gets told and, you know, 500 years through heraldic songs or whatever. I don't know. That's kind of how I'm thinking about it at least. I've also just been so trained by the series that nothing is ever easy. Nothing is ever holy good or holy bad. And to have this ending where I'm like, well, this is definitely not holy good. Like this is, I don't like this. And I feel like I've been primed to feel that way about how deeply messy and weird the situation is. And that like, if you're telling me that the myth became a happy version of this, I buy that as long as you are willing to agree that like the actual events that became mythicized were not great or beautiful or like pleasant. They were messy. I think messy is a very good word for it. Yeah. Including the ending. Yeah, but I don't think, I think that you as the reader experience their relationship between fits and the fool as worse than what either fits or the fool experience it as. Possibly. I don't know exactly what you mean by that. Well, like, so, so for instance, oh, it's like IRL, I have plenty of friends where when I'm looking at their relationships, I'm like, I don't know that this is a great relationship. But if I were to ask either of the people in that relationship, they really love each other and they're experiencing it as much more positive relationship than what I as an outsider view it as. And I think you as an outsider, rightfully are identifying some messy and like bad things in their relationship. But I don't know that fits or the fool would have as dim a view of their relationship as you do. Well, I mean, and you and I talked about this of it as well, about how like I just don't buy and can't get behind any kind of notion of like soulmates and eternity together. So I'm just like, even if their relationship had been a relationship that I was like, this is great and perfect and I love them together. Even then I'm like, but forever together in a rock, like. Yeah. I mean, the reality of forever together in a rock is pretty brutal. Sounds awful. It's literally almost anyone, I think. Exactly. And I already think there's problems in their relationship and even if it was perfect, it would be bad. It's definitely not perfect. And then you had night eyes in there and they're going to be at each other's throats metaphysically. I don't, yeah. I think that there's a reason why we're not seeing that. Though if, again, I will be very interested to see if we ever get a follow up series. That all takes place in the rock with the three of them just like disembodied. Well, okay, because remind me, I'm not remembering. Are they like off roaming in the spirit world together? Like, is there a world? Like I'm trying to remember even what happened to a what's-his-face back at the end of. Fairity? Yeah. Didn't he becomes a dragon? I mean, there's also like, well, because his memory is animated and there's all the times that they're connecting to the memory stones of all the elderlings and that's why they're able to live vicariously through them because they're kind of like, memory spirit is like present. And then like Fitz is able to connect with like Verity and also King Shrewd, definitely Verity. That sounds right, yeah. Where he's like in the skill and is like connecting with their like force ghosts. Yeah, so I'm wondering if maybe if we ever get a subscribe series, will we find out how the force ghosts of Fitz the Fool and Night Eyes are doing together? Yeah, I don't know. It is, I mean, I don't disagree with you. It's very messy, but it feels very mythic to me. I don't know, interesting. Well, and also like when you think of soulmate as being positive, but maybe it's like morally neutral, it's just a fact. Are you muted? I was gonna say like that's the thing that I just, again, probably a me problem, but like, I just, I don't buy it ever. I, you know, somebody who loves a speculative romance, I'm in the tank for a soulmate, so fadedmate does not bother me or like a, destiny I'm down with. Destiny doesn't always have to be good, but. Yeah, and I mean, because I just, I also, yeah, it just bothered me because I feel like this series did so much to like to de-mythicize and unpack and complicate simple ideas like, oh, you're destined, oh, you're mated, oh, like, you know, these magics that have been inherited and who should be king? And I feel like it's complicated, all of those things, all of the time, gender is complicated, relationships are complicated. And then to have this ending of like, well, they're soulmates, so they're together forever. It's just like, excuse me? That's simple all of a sudden? Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't think of it as, yeah, I think for me it felt mythic rather than simple, but I don't think that your opinion is like, ungrounded. Like, it makes sense to me. Well, it's because like, to me, I'm like, the myth is what people make of it. The truth is much harsher. And so that's like, again, if this becomes a myth of these three that became one and like, they were together forever, that sounds like a myth, but what we saw was the reality, which is like, not nice or pretty, and like, we shouldn't feel that it is. I will choose to believe that Wolf Father will still be coming to be to guide her. I don't know. I definitely won't, because he's in the Trinity Rock, but. I believe, wait, until we get the series, I believe and leave me alone. Let me believe what I want to believe. We already got like more night eyes time than I ever thought we would, because once you died, I was like, oh, no more night eyes. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know, all of that was so sweet. And I really loved in the first book, I don't know, just that first book is so perfect. I loved getting a little bit of redemption for Molly. Like she got a little more fleshed out. And I liked that they're, quote unquote, happy ever after was like complicated from what we got in the end of the Tawny Ment trilogy, because I did not like the way that that left off. So I felt like, I feel more peace. People who told us like to wait and see, I agree. Like now that I see the full context, I'm like, okay, I'm more down with this. Yeah, I don't know. I just thought this was so great. I thought that the, again, the names are escaping me. Dwallia, is that right? Oh, that sounds almost correct, but somehow not quite. But I know what you mean. What happens with B? I thought was super interesting and complicated and exciting and yeah. A good origin story for B if she eventually becomes the badass profit catalyst combo. I'm just imagining like thrown of glass around with the Elderlings Edition where B becomes Salinas Ardothian and is all, cause she's like got the pale hair and is like just gonna be flying. I hadn't read that book. Don't, but like. Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. Oh, that was a really gnarly detail. That was a gnarly detail. But also, I mean, once again, we had a really complicated situation with what's his name, her like pet, who like she like fed Serpent Spit too and like who was like in a Stockholm syndrome relationship basically with her where he is like, he would have been cast aside if not for her using him. But he's like, she's the only one that's ever been kind to me. And B is like, she's not kind to you. She's using you. Like, how can you not see that? Which is the moments where I'm like, yeah, B, like how could you not see the truth of your relationships you have with people, huh? Well, if you think that people are better at being aware of their own internal relationships than they are other people, then... Absolutely not. But this is also like speaking of that again, like once again, like it could have worked for me and it just like quite didn't because like the moment that fits while B is skilling and because of the like situation with Jade, he like shoves B away in the skill. If in that moment, if she had been like, I believed this whole time that my dad was coming for me, but then he pushed me away. So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he's not coming for me. If that had been her reaction, I'd been like, yeah, that makes sense and it's sad. But the whole time she was like, can't believe my dad's not coming for me. I guess he doesn't love me. I was like, you disappeared off the face of the earth and went through a rock. It's amazing. He did find you. Like, what are you expecting him to do? Yeah. So, yeah, Dualia makes Kyle look cuddly. I don't know. I feel like I hate Kyle Haven more still. Well, it's that evil you know again where it's like you know Kyle's. Yeah. Kyle is like, especially because it's his own kid. That's the part that it's just like, but yeah, Dualia was, yeah, that whole thing was a lot. I did really, I found it very satisfying when Bea does her thing in the last book. I don't even remember. Like, doesn't she like, my Jedi Mike? Like kills them and gets out of there. Yeah. I thought all of that was very like, okay, Bea's coming into her own. And it was interesting to finally see the place that we'd heard. I wouldn't even say that we heard so much about it, but we heard it mentioned so often like periodically. Yeah. What's it? I forgot the name again, but like we're in the full classroom. Don't look to me for a name. Yeah. Don't look for me to me. Dary will let us know. Yeah. But like, yeah, I finally see it. Dary started name supplier. Yeah, exactly. Bea literally just tells them to die. Like that was just, I love that. I thought that was very satisfying. She became a Wanda from Marvel. I have not seen that. Clarice, yes. Clarice, yeah. Yeah. I am Marvel deficient. I've only seen the first Avenger and the first Doctor Strange. Would not be my first choice this movie to see. I just, at some point I was like, I have, I'm so far behind, I'm never gonna catch up and I don't want to. I'm by no means a big fan of Marvel, but like there are specific films. I really like Black Panther and I really like Thor Ragnarok. I want to say Black Panther because I've heard those are very good. Yeah. And Thor Ragnarok is just, it's Tycho ITG, so it's very... He's a weird man. It's a weird movie. Well, there you go. But Kate Blanchett being Hella, the goddess of the underworld, is just like, it's everything. I do like that idea. But yeah, this, yeah. The final trilogy was definitely, for me, the most bingeable. I'm gonna say followed by the Rainwild Chronicles. And I don't know if it's because I just like, oh yes, yeah, yeah, sorry, Daryl, yes. I mean, just in general, gender in this series is fascinating. Yeah, the fool being... It was also really interesting watching Fitz be like, I know it doesn't make any sense that I love the fool and I hate Amber, but it's true. I love the fool and I hate Amber because the Amber is a stranger to me and the way that they behave as Amber is not how the fool behaves. Well, it's okay, you can be wrong. Wait, what? You can just be wrong. Well, he can just be wrong. No, you can just be wrong. To hate Amber? No, I'm saying that's what Fitz is thinking. Oh, sorry, I thought that's what you were saying. No, I'm saying that all the times in the book what Fitz is like, I hate Amber. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was like, wait, what do you mean I'm wrong? That is what Fitz thinks. You hate Amber? How could you hate Amber? I'm like, I'm not wrong. I know Fitz thinks this. No, no, no, no, you're right, you're right, you're right. Well, then that goes back to that amazing scene in the golden fool where they have their confrontation and it's like, yeah, I loved all of that. But yeah, no, I mean, Ash, Spark, Sean, yeah. All of it is very interesting. I would also be, I guess, at least here in the US there's so many awful conversations happening right now around trans people. So I feel like this is only becoming more resonant with time. Yeah. That's definitely fair. The books in general are not like casual. Not just because they're complicated because they're emotionally like hard. Well, I will say I do understand why people finish the series and immediately go back to the beginning and start rereading because I do want to reread the series at some point now just to see, like now that you get the full picture, like. Well, and I think there's some part of it is this, right? That Amber is a part of this person that Fitz doesn't really know. Yeah, that makes sense. But also, because Fitz is like, whether he's like, I don't know if this is true, but it certainly feels true to him that it's like, I reasonably can predict or feel that I know what the fool would do, what the fool would respond. If I talk to the fool, I know like, what would the fool do? But I have no idea what Amber would do because he's like, with NIST, Amber, make decisions that he feels that the fool never would. And he's like, they are two different people to me in my mind. And I don't know and I don't trust Amber because I don't know what Amber would do. Yeah, I mean, and I think that's a pretty reasonable feeling. If I only knew you as Leanna and then I found out that you have like a whole secret life where you were Leanna. I also carved your face into a ship, welcome. I would be like, I don't know what to do with this. No, but I mean, like, yeah, but it does also just speak to you. I like the implication that I wrote the The Northern Sky series just there. If my alter ego is Leo. Yeah, yeah, that is probably why you picked that name. But I mean, I think that that is an interesting idea in general of like, nobody, you only know somebody in the context that you know them and they could have like this full other persona or life or interests or they just behave very differently in different situations. So how much can you ever really know someone? And this is just like a super, yeah. Well, my existence, but again, we're in this, we're in a polycule. Like the biology of- What is the biology? We don't know what these biology is. It's a very interesting mishmash of yeah. But I think that the fool, I can't, well, I don't know. What do you think the fool thinks about Molly? How, where do you think? Doesn't, no, I'm trying to remember. I feel like somebody at some point said that they didn't like Molly for fits. I think that that sounds right. That sounds right. I'm sure Dary can tell us. So there's probably also like jealousy there because Molly is to fits what the fool slash Hamburg could and would never be. Yeah. It's still unclear though, like, that that's what the fool slash Amber would want. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, because Molly did just die and Molly had been raising some. Yeah. And she was the romantic love of his life. Yeah. Oh yeah. Nye dies one day. Oh, that's right. Which I would be 100% here for. Like that, that's a fan. If that's not on AO3 somewhere, it should be. But I mean, like fits did get to be with Kettrican and made a son. I know, but that's, they don't acknowledge it. I don't know. Maybe I'm just very spoken about biology, but I just am constantly like. I'm just thinking about generations, generations later in the Six Duchies, like every single person can trace their lineage back to fits because like, he's actually the start of every family tree. I mean, well, yeah, we'll see. Proof that Nye dies is the brains of the operation for real. If I was gonna pick one of the three who end up in the Stone Wolf to like run my life, it honestly probably would be Nye dies. I feel like Nye dies is the most honest as the best instincts. Living in the now. Just living in the present. And Nye dies certainly gave be good advice. Yeah. Oh yeah, I totally agree with Rex that fits loves the full platonically and the platonic love can be beautiful as well. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that's part of what makes that whole relationship really interesting is that he does, like the platonic love he has for the fool is as profound as the romantic love he has had for Molly. Well, so I don't, this is secondhand information that I'm mad about if it's true. So like, it's my understanding that there are people that are legitimately mad that in the series, fool and fits are not canonically like sexual partners, that they're not like romantic lovers. And I'm like, to desire that and to demand that is to entirely misunderstand the complexity of what is being presented to you in this story. Well. And to boil down every relationship to like, well, it's not real if it's not sexual is like. Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, that's like denying that asexuality or aromanticism even exists, right? So, but I mean, I think that is an interesting, yeah. I think if you introduce the idea of aromanticism or asexuality into their relationship, like the idea of a queer platonic relationship becomes a very interesting thing here that doesn't necessarily have to include sex. And I think very clearly canonically does not. Yeah, I don't know. I like that it's interesting and complicated and ambiguous. I think that that's part of what makes the whole thing very interesting. Um, yeah, again, this is why this is why I'm calling them the polycule because it's like, I don't I don't fully understand how everything is working in this polycule. I'm just going to leave it. It's my understanding that like the tone of that critique is that like, oh, it's like the coward's way out that like she didn't wasn't willing to fully commit to having like, I just like totally disagreed with that. Yeah. No, 1,000 percent. I disagree. Yes. Intimacy isn't necessarily sex. And like you could have a really unintimate sexual relationship. Yes. So yeah. And as a neighbor of anti person, I encourage it. And again, it like makes it also it means that your most important relationships in your life need to be sexual ones as opposed to like maybe the most important person in your whole life for your entire life for all of the universe is somebody that you've never banged. Crazy idea. Now, I will say I fully encourage people to go to A03 and write some fits in the full fan fiction because I feel like that is certainly that's different from saying this series has failed you. Yes, exactly. I think that I don't think it's the coward's way out. Well, I never had an unpopular opinion. So this is new for me. This is a new and fresh experience for Liana. But I completely heartily disagree that it's a coward's way out or like somehow like homophobic or like not playing out the full implications of the relationship because I that to me is it's explored so much on page. Why such a reductionist way to view their relationship to like boil it down to sex or not sex. It's like, is that the only question you have? Yeah. Well, and like that, yeah, the argument as it is referred to, it's probably one of my favorite. It is one of my favorite scenes in the entire series because it's just so they hash it out. Yeah, I don't see how you can see it's the coward's way out after that scene because it is so fleshed out how complicated that relationship is and the dynamics involved. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's like, I think part of, I would have thought and would have hoped that with how much more people in general are talking about queer issues and spectrums of relationships, of intimacy, of identity, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that like just as we are pushing against the gender binary, surely we should push against the relationship binary of like sexual, not sexual, but that's the only question that matters. Yeah. Intimate, not intimate. Intimacy equals sexual. Like all of these are, no, like we're leaving that. We're leaving that in the past. Like people are messy, relationships are messy, dynamics are messy and interesting and complex. Messy is not even the right word. It's like they're complicated and layered and not everything is just, you know, man, woman, white picket fence with kids, man, man, white picket fence with kids. Like there's a whole spectrum in there as evidenced by the fact that fits in the full and night eyes are somehow all simultaneously be spotter, like in a way that I don't, I don't and I don't think we can't understand. And yeah, I mean, this is like, I think what you already said, like it's the erasure of like non-sexual relationships. Yeah, asexual people exist and they are perfectly capable of- Now in fairness, asexual people probably don't become like, like Thrupple fatherhood genetically, like that part probably just- Perhaps they would if it were magically available to them. I'm just saying. Yes, and the fact that we're discussing it. Yes, exactly. And these books were written over the course of, yeah, like over the course of 20 years and I don't know. When I realized- Yeah, it's not like- My head was that emoji of the exploiting. I was like, oh, Robin is working on another level here. She is getting into some real, like some deep shit with gender. And then- But it's also, it's not like this all of a sudden appeared as a theme that was not formerly present in this series, you know? Cause then you could be like, well, her thoughts changed and like the zeitgeist changed and suddenly it got real clear. Well, like it's been this way. Oh, it's done been this way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so, it's so relevant to our current moment. And that is how you know it's a real art. And I think that this will become a classic the way that Tolkien has because there's so many layers to this. The writing is so beautiful. The characters are memorable. So when you want to yell at me about me not liking the three of them in Iraq, remember that I also applaud the series for many other different things. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, I mean, like, you know, loving things does not mean being uncritical of them. I hope not anyway. Is it that time that I should quote Patrick Rothfuss? Well, you didn't wear the shirt so you can't point out. Is there another stand in quote that you can put from Joe Abercrombie that would suit the point you're trying to make? No. Okay, well then yes, you can quote Rothfuss. To love something because is easy. It's like putting a penny in your pocket but to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too that is rare and pure and perfect. Golf club. Yeah, no, I mean, like there are things that I have critiques of throughout this series but like when I think of it as a whole it's just like what an astounding piece of work. What a multi-layered absolute perfect series. Like even though I have problems with books like I have things I like more and less as a whole it is like 3000 times greater than the sum of its parts. Like it's just such an accomplishment. Well, as I will often say about things it's like the stuff that I'll get mad about like it only bothers me so much because I like it so much because I love it so much and I respect it so much. If I thought it was garbage I'd be like, well, who cares if there was like another part of it that was dumb. I'd be like, it's not worth like the emotional investment to be mad about it. But I feel like you like think something is brilliant and amazing and you're like, oh, but like it could have just been perfecter if it didn't do that. Yeah, it's, I only have critiques when I like to this level. Like, so for instance, myself- What's like parents being like, I'm only yelling at you because I love you. I love you. Yeah, yeah. My side changeling podcast for Nalini Singh cause I have more critiques there than I've had of this series. Like the only reason I give them is because I think Nalini Singh is such a good, does such a good job with the genre she's working in. She does have a lot of metaphorical richness to her worlds. She's such a good planner. Yeah, more perfect. It's like, there are things that happen that I'm like, God, I wish this didn't happen because I know, I know you're better than this. Like this moment does not live up to the high standard you have established. You know what, it's like the same too when I like a reading just generally books from a favorite author where like, I'll rate, you know, a Neil Gaiman book three stars. But I do think that Neil Gaiman three star book is probably better than many other books I've given five stars to. It's just like Neil, I know you can do better. Yes, it's like, I'll give a Nalini Singh book a three star and I'm like, now if this was just some random piece of sci-fi with romantic elements, probably this would be a four star. But it's Nalini Singh, so it's a three star because I know she can do better. Yeah, ratings are on a spectrum. And same for Robin Hobb, like even the books in this that I've given like four star, I think the lowest I gave any book was three and a half, which was to Assassin's Quest. And I would like to go back and revisit that at some point. You are permitted to do so. Yeah, well, no, at some point I would like to reread it to see if I'd have a different impression. But any of the books in the series from another author I could easily see myself giving four, four and a half, five stars too. So yeah, yeah. Now a question that I address when I did my month in wrap up, but a question I get a lot. Do you think somebody could start with Fits in the Fool? Absolutely not. Do you think people would like it as like, because in some ways I would say Fits in the Fool is maybe like the most conventional fantasy, like it's accessible in a way that some of the others aren't. Lifeshift traders and their original Farseer trilogy are quite traditional fantasy. Well, people bomb out with Assassin's Apprentice pretty often. Yeah, but so then when people say you could start with Lifeshift traders instead, like those are too like, like you could start with either one of those kind of, but anything further in the series is so building on what happened before that I don't think you can. Yeah. I mean, I think you would enjoy it. I don't think you would have a bad time, but you just would be missing so much that it's like, I can't recommend you do that. I just, I honestly, even just like the magic system, I feel like it doesn't really explain it because it assumes you know. So like the skill and the weight, you'd be like, That is true. Huh? What's going on? And then like all of the relationships of like how Fits is actually the father of Dutiful, like is just kind of like, you'd be like, Yeah, that's true. Sorry, what? That is true. You would be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, what? But not, like nobody treats him like he's the father, even though biologically he is, but biology apparently is not a thing in this world. Also wolf father, you'd be like, why is she schizophrenic? Like Bumbleida is canonically schizophrenic, but it's a wolf and we're good with this. In fact, we stand. And we're all just rolling with it. Like, yeah, no, this checks out. And the logic of this series, this I'll compute. The setup of like Fits carving himself. I mean, I don't like that part, but him carving himself into the rock at the end. Like if you haven't seen Varity do it, you'd be like, he's doing what now? Yeah, that is like a very good point. I didn't even think about that at the very point. I'd be like, wait, what? Which is how we- Just like what a catalyst and a profit are, you'd be like, oh, I think maybe get it. Yeah, because people always, whenever I get to the end of a series, they always ask like, could I start with this one? And I'm always like, I guess you could, but don't. Like it's, but it's hard for me to then say, like, yes, go back to the beginning of the 16 book series that are so, so long. Like you have to start there. And I'm like- But I'm just like, I don't understand. I kind of do. But I also don't understand why that's a problem because like, if it's like, oh, but there's so much to catch up on, but it's like, so like, it's not like it's going anywhere. Like if it's a story you're interested in. It's a good point. Like it's not like sports where there's like new tournaments every year where you're like, should I catch up on the history of sports? Once I'm behind, I have lost all hope of ever catching up with everything that's out there. Yeah. Well, like my mom will do that with like, she, I think she started watching Game of Thrones on like episode eight of season one because that's where it was when it was airing. And I was like, you have to start from the beginning. She's like, I'll just pick it up. And I was like, you will not. And so she was like, I didn't like it. I don't understand anything. And then later she did go back to the beginning and she like really liked Game of Thrones and watched all of it. But I was like, yeah, it's almost like you can't just start an episode eight and not understand what's going on. And I'd be like, well, that show was boring because I didn't understand what was happening. It's like, that's kind of your fault. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you got it. It's one, it's a high, you have to put in a lot of work with this series, but I think it pays off. And unlike other long running series, Wheel of Time cough, I'm not sitting here telling you like, oh yeah, you're going to have to read all these books, half of which are terrible and are called The Slog, but don't worry, it picks back up. You refer to Rainwild as like The Slog. But I've refused to accept that. What's also, it's like, if I would, I mean, I would agree that it's like, over all of the series, I do think I would rank it the lowest, but also it's like, if that's The Slog, like that is, that is it gets. It's like, it's pretty great. That's the thing is that even if you, which I do not concede, even if we thought it can said that it was the worst of the series, it's still wildly entertaining compare, or like wildly high quality compared to most fantasy books out there. So I had a roommate in college that like, she did this all the time, but she like specifically did it with like two movies that was really ridiculous where she would come in at the last 20 minutes and be like, that didn't make any sense. That movie is stupid. And she did it with The Matrix and with Donnie Darko. And we were like, Marina, you can't watch the last 20 minutes of Donnie Darko and be like, that didn't make any sense. It's stupid. You're like, you have to see the whole movie. Or at least have some humility to be like, this seems stupid to me, but I did not see the first hour and 20 minutes. So maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this would make sense. Yeah. Oh yeah. Rainbow Chronicles I do wish have been a duology cause I do think people would have liked it better. Cause the first two books, I mean, it literally just is like, oh, we're out of pages. Book is over. Well also like I think right back up on the next one. Is it the second one where like, no progression really happens. They're in the one place. All the POVs are in one place. Yeah. But I love that book. I love that book so much. It has the scene. But if it was a duology, then it wouldn't feel like this like complete halt. It's true. I think it would, I think overall it would be a better paced experience if it were two books. Or even if it was the first two books together and then the other tale. Yeah, I would agree. That Brain Wilds is like Feast for Crows after Storm of Swords. Where, yeah. It's probably the weakest, but like still really good. I can concede theoretically it's the weakest, but it is not it for me because I love the live ship trader side of things so much. To me, I look at it as a continuation of that. And I live ship travers. Yeah, but it's so for me, it's like that's one big story. And I prefer it to Fitz before. I know, I know. Not because I would tell you objectively, it's better. I just like the world. I like the dragon stuff. Well, I think it is objectively focused on different things. And it's just like, it's not the one is better than the other. It's like, which things do you feel most connected to and are more interested in? And if that's what you're most interested in, well, then this is the one for you or this is the one for you. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, controversially, we're gonna get into this. Leigh Ann is gonna come over on my channel. We're gonna do a ranking video of all the individual books. So I won't even get into that, but prepare for me to have some very unpopular opinions about where things should be and try to convince the people to join me. Yeah, Rainbow Chronicles certainly has great stuff in it. Like that's, I don't think that's under dispute. Yeah. And when it's productive freedom, yeah. You think for the most part, like the biggest criticism I have of Rainbow Chronicles is pacing. Which I, I still like the pacing, but I get objectively why people don't like it. And I mean, like I think in a quote unquote objective sense, like it stands to reason that the one that struggles with pacing is the one that out of all of these series is the only one that has four books instead of three. You're like, feels a little off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but we did it. It took us four years. Don't worry about it. I don't think it was, I think it was three. Well, no, because we, we read the, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Because we read Assassin's Apprentice and then the pandemic started and it was our fault. So yeah, it's canonically accurate. Yeah, yeah, sorry everyone, our bad there. So yeah, it took us three years to get through it, mostly because of me. You were very patient, so I appreciate that. I'm glad that we've built your stamina up so you can get through faster. Yeah, exactly. I do, I really do think that this built my epic fantasy stamina because if I can get through a hob in a month, I'm gonna be flying through. I did, I flew through the winter night trilogy. Well, it'll be interesting to revisit to the conversation about whether or not spoilers are a thing that you should worry about when we talk about first law. Cause I would say more so in a first law is something that I would be pretty mad if I got spoiled and it'd be pretty mad if someone got spoiled. But at the same time, I obviously think they're like extremely rereadable. So it's not like an M. Night Shyamalan movie. You're like, well, now that I know it doesn't matter. It's more just that like, it's that initial experience. I thought I knew something was true. Yeah, yeah. Because then like every time you reread it, you remember about how surprised you were when you learned to this thing. And like that's part of what makes rereading it, you know, an interesting experience. Yeah. Derek says, is there anything that stands out as being changed most with context? I think that that original trilogy seems like if I went back and reread it, I would have a very different experience of it. I actually think that's funny cause like you like Live Ship Better and I like Farseer better and you feel the most like altered in Farseer. And I was about to say no that Live Ship Traders because like reading Live Ship Traders knowing the full context of what Wizard Wood is like from the beginning. Oh yeah. That would be good. I feel like that is way more like mind altering than anything with fits. Yeah, but I felt like that was part of what I loved about that series was the dawning realization of that. Yeah, but so like rereading it, like I don't think there's anything that I know now about bits that would make me reread the Farseer trilogy and be like, this is totally different now. But like reading about Wizard Wood knowing would be totally different. Well, I feel like I would get Easter eggs and then I wonder if I would like Assassin's Quest a lot better because my problem was I felt like it was such a slog in the middle of it. And actually I'm like one of the few people who liked to the ending of Assassin's Quest with the card. I know nobody else likes it, but I liked that. But I felt like it was such a slog to get there. But I wonder if there's a bunch of Easter eggs in there now that I would appreciate in a way that I didn't at the time. And it would like sustain me getting through that part. Well, I think also it's part of like you've spent so long with Fitz that going back and seeing him be young again even if it's like in slog. It would be so poignant, yes. And seeing Night Eyes be alive and not be just like a metaphysical play. Yes, Ghostfather. Yeah, that's part of the poignancy of the story is the time element of just like we've seen it for his whole life. And I don't know. I just feel like there's such a touching quality to seeing Fitz go through everything, being a dumb, dumb and still like plotting along. I don't know. So to quickly answer this, I don't know that that's how I would describe the magic in First Law as a demon magic and possession. There is magic in First Law, just like there is magic in A Song of Wives and Fire. And like when the magic is explained, like it's that the magic come all magic comes from the other side. So like there's this like sense of like touching like the beyond, touching the world of the dead or something like that, as like that's where magic comes from. So like in that sense, I guess so, but like it's not like a Judeo-Christian demon possession type of thing. Good to know. I'll find out soon in May. I have read The Blade itself, but it's been probably four years since I've read it, maybe even five. So I'm definitely due for reread. Now that your stamina is up, you'll just be ready to just crack that. Well, but I'm going to do them through audio. So that's going to slow me down or speed you up because it's so good and you won't be able to stop. Well, that's why I want to do it through audio because I remember the Glokka performance was immaculate. So all of his performances are immaculate. Yeah, I think I've said this like many. I'm pretty sure I've told you because I talk about it all the time about like the interview with Joe Abercrombie and Stephen Pasey, like together. And you know what it's been like, working together on these books and like, cause he narrates all of the first law, like all 10 books and what it was like for Joe hearing his books or whatever and about all the performances and accents and about how some of it changed Joe's mind because like he had written these characters but he hadn't voiced them and hearing Stephen Pasey do a French accent for Pharaoh. Joe was like, I had not imagined Pharaoh to have a French accent but forever after I was writing for Pharaoh with a French accent in my mind. Well, you know, it's the beauty of collaborative elaboration in art. Well, and Stephen Pasey was like, it's kind of an actor's dream job cause I get to play all the characters, even the characters that I would never be cast to play. Oh, Rex, I've got to disagree. When it comes to women, Fitz is a dumb dumb. Like, he never, he is always the last to know when it comes to women. I'm not saying he's not reasonable. I mean, I like Fitz. I'm just saying that there are certain areas where he is. But he's consistently dumb. So it's very believable that he's not dumb about it. Yeah, it's in a lovable way. I say it with a great deal of affection but he is the last to know when it comes to women. Yeah, exactly. I think Fitz is just human and does things we would do but most characters are more heroic and unflot. Exactly, he's just a person who's witted and skilled and has the way of the world on him. And has like the most chronic case of imposter syndrome that has ever been. Oh my God, cannot get out of his own way when it comes to the imposter syndrome. That is a fact. That is a fact. But I love him. I love him. I think I would love him much more on my second read. Well, it's like, it's also kind of, you would want to think reading the Farsier trilogy that you're like, well, he's gonna get through this rough childhood that like- Yeah, exactly. And then it'll be like fine. And you're like, it just stays. I will say, I do love that Robin had some mercy and gave him that period between the series where he and Molly are just like living their quiet life. And even like, it was sad that Molly's dead but he did also still have like the few years of being with Bea and like just the two of them. Them raising her together and like that. Yeah, life is full of ups and downs and he had a good stretch of time there where he had, I think most of what he wanted. So Robin is at least a merciful book God in that sense. She has her moments of compassion. But yeah, well, we did it. We did it. Oh, that was a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it was a journey, a pleasure. Yeah, I don't know. We're masochists. Yeah, it feels weird that it's over. That's never over because you can keep re-reading it. I know, it's true. It's true. And we've got first law coming up in May and I don't know if we have other ones after that but we definitely are doing that. Oh, so we have, I don't know what we're talking about but we are disagreeing about it. Yeah. So. I think that's, I think they're talking about Assassin's Quest. Yeah. But yeah, we're gonna do first law, read. I assume we'll do a live show about it at some point over here. I think there's no way that you read first law and you don't come chat about it with us. It's true. It's like a toll we must pay. But I don't know. We'll have to talk about after that if there's any other series we're gonna get through. Maybe we could do a, it's a Scott Lynch one, German bastards. But it's unfinished. Oh, that's right. I did read that first one already. The Joe is great because he writes his trilogy is in one draft. I appreciate that sincerely. Well, and you'll have to let me know if you wanna read the first law trilogy and then all of the rest of first law. Oh, that's a good point. If I'm intrigued enough, maybe this becomes our new realm of the elderly. It's still less because the books are shorter and there's only 10 of them. Yeah, okay. Then also you've read them like 3,000 times, so. Working on 4,000. All day, every day. They, I mean, honestly, like they are a lot faster to get through because partly the page length is just a lot shorter and there are less books. And yeah, I feel like it's slightly less of a like commitment. Yeah, I don't think it's, yeah, that's my memory of first laws that it's not as much work. Well, it's also cause like, well, certainly everyone says this and me included the Joe Abercrombie as a character-driven writer that if you're a character-driven reader, you're not gonna like it and that's all very true. But it's just like a very different style of character-driven writer from Robin Hobb where Robin Hobb is like marinating in emotions for a hundred pages. Whereas like Abercrombie is like pretty like concise in conveying the emotional situation of a character and then we move on. Like we don't like stay in it like forever. I don't like the depth of the character immersion is so intense in Hobb. That's part of why it makes it such an intense read, at least for me it was. Well, it's also cause like the fifth books is just fits. Like all those pages are just fits. Yeah, so I think my memory of first law was that I enjoyed it and it felt like a quick, fun read. Fun is an interesting word, but. Well, it was, I was reading it in entertainment mode. Though now that I have to talk to the master about them, I'm probably gonna need to pay a little bit more attention so that I can even attempt to keep up with you in terms of remembering people's names and where things are. It's okay, I'll be your dairy. I know all the names like the back of my hand. I also think maybe this is just my bias, but I do feel like the names are easier to remember. Like they're not as like fantasy in first law. I don't remember any of them, but it's been a while. Oh, Logan, Logan, five? Four fingers, nine fingers. He has a lot more fingers than you're giving him. Although when I hurt my finger, I was like, well, if I lose the finger, then I'll just be leaning on nine fingers. Well, I meant to tell you, you almost lost a finger and then it seems like that same day or the same night I dropped my sewing shears on my pinky toe and it like sliced it open of blood like a motherfucker. Oh my gosh. So I almost became Mara nine toes. Well, one of my patrons like got the same, like a day or two after my finger, like her finger went into like a food processor. So it's been a great time for everybody. Basically everybody, your digits, just pay a little extra attention. It seems like digits are in retrograde right now. I'm obviously blocked. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm looking forward to it. I think it'll be good, but I'm going. So I did winter night this month. I finished that trilogy. And then in April, I'm finishing the broken earth trilogy before. Like that's my next fantasy project proof of these. That's how you read it before. Is it like blade itself or like you're like revisiting? Yes, that's so I'm doing like six month series TBRs. And on this six month block of series TBR is me finishing the trilogies where I've read the first one, but never continued. I have I have several of those. Not to discourage you. I do think the fifth season is the best of the three, but like the whole thing, it's kind of like with hub where it's like the sum of it's it's more than the sum of its parts. But I do think the first like the individual installment, the first one is the best one. Well, I'm excited because I inferred what the like twist of the first one was. So but I have no idea what happens in the next two, like literally not. And so I'm excited to see where it goes. It's also so nontraditional and everything that it's doing. There's no like, well, these stories tend to go. It's like, yeah, it's such a different. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. And I'm excited to binge them both in the same month. So I just enjoy it all. But yeah, that's what that's when the next six months is, is just me trying to finish series where I read the first one. I just need to go ahead and finish off either the trilogy or the duology. That is where it's also like often good to have like a group or a buddy because it's like, you know, it's like a gym buddy where it's like keeping you accountable to continue the series instead of like, well, I'll get to the rest when I get to it. I don't think I would have gotten through my realm of the elderlings without you because I think it's just such it feels very daunting. So having accountability and the support was very helpful. Hey, Mara. Yeah, can we keep going now? I'm already two books ahead. Can you catch up? Of course, when you start reading first live every day, I'll be like, have you read today's chapter? Oh, that's not how that will work. I'm not a chapter writer. I try to do that and I'm just not good at it. So this will be a have you started the audio book yet? How far in the audio book are you? It's dinner time. Did you finish? Yeah, which maybe who knows? They are shorter, so it's more doable. Yeah. Yeah. I easily do a first live book like all in one day. Yeah. No, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it so I can catch up with your. Fantasy reading prowess. Well, and then we're going to have to have it out. Is it is it first law realm of the elderlings? I just want to set your expectations that I think it's very hard for me to to have anything unseed hub. I mean, also knowing you as a reader and like it's the same. You're like how I like Farsi and you like my ship better. You know, like we have similar but diverging priorities. So I feel like my prediction for like end of trilogy and the end of all of first law, if you read all of first law is that first, you will still think that realm of the elderlings is better than first law and I'll allow it. And two, I appreciate that. And two, I do think that like that that will always disagree, but I feel fairly certain that the parts of it that you'll appreciate the most or that will be your favorite installments or your favorite characters will be parts that I'm like, I like those, but those are not my favorites. OK, we'll see. I'm hopeful. My hope is that I come out of it a Joe Abercrombie fan and then I'm going to keep going in the overall world. That's I feel like if that's the outcome, then we'll call it a win. Oh, we will. Whether you want to continue or not. I never saw the real that I shared on Instagram that was like, you know, have you met people that reverse gatekeep where they just like push you through the gate or do you want to go through or not? It's like for my birthday, I get four Joe Abercrombie books for Christmas. I get the rest of them and it's like, well, like this is what I'm doing for your birthday. Joe Abercrombie comes to your door like the fire staring house and he's like, here's all 10 books. I get it. All of a sudden I'm like, someone's called off work for me. I have a week off and Joe is there ready to read it to me. So Joe is there to supervise Stephen Paisley will come up, come show up to like physically read it in person. Yeah, exactly. So although Joe does read one of the stories in the short story collection, which is which is fine. It's charming. Yeah. Well. Yes, the biases are well done. Yes. Yes. Well, yeah, I'm excited for our next reading adventure. Me too. I do think it will be less emotionally draining. I think so too. So we're going to get. Oh, no, go ahead. Sorry. What I was just going to say, because like officially we can debate categories all day, every day. But officially, first law is grimdark and Romney Elderlings is not. So you would think that the one that's like going to be the more like difficult to get through would be, but absolutely not. Yeah. If you were going to give the overall realm of the Elderling series a grade, what grade would you give it? A, B, C. I mean, it's like that sliding scale thing, right? Where I'm like, I don't know, does it does that mean? The fact that your answers not just immediately a plus is concerning. Most of us think I was like, should I say it's an A but not an A plus because first law is A plus or is it like? Well, first law is like beyond grading, I think for you. Are you going to multiple A pluses? There could be more than one A plus in a class. So first law is A plus plus. And then maybe maybe first law did bonus credit. So Robin got a home. I'm also thinking of like a grading rubric where it's like if we're going to go through like every category of thing that you could have done or done, you know, perfectly or like up to par or whatever, then like there's obviously like categories where in realm of the Elderlings, I'm like, oh, you're getting marked down for pacing in this one. You're getting marked down for this ending right here. But like, I think the cumulative score is in over 90. So I think we're still in A territory. Yeah. Well, the answer is A plus. I'm glad that we can all agree on that. Yeah, because I mean, like, because then I was thinking, I was like, would I be just as harsh about first law? And I think that's why first law is my like A plus plus because I don't the way that I'm like, oh, I don't like the ending where a fit is in the rock. And like, it really made me annoyed that like the B felt this way. So like, I can't think of anything in first law where I'm like, oh, I love these books, but like this one plot choice, like, oh, I wish we hadn't done in that. Like I don't think I've ever felt that way about anything in first law. So like, that's why it's like a very like casual, confident, don't have to think about it. A, whereas realm of the Elderlings, I have such complicated feelings about. Well, but there's also the, I don't know, for me, I have several series where it's like I have individual problems with certain entries, but overall, it's more than that. So like, monstrous, for example, I don't think I've ever given an addition of monstrous more than a four star, but like that series as a whole is a five five star for me. Yeah. So that's how I felt about realm of the Elderlings. I might have like things that I do and don't like in an individual book, but the totality of it is just like so far above any of those individual. Yeah, I feel like that that favorite Rothfuss quote that I quoted earlier, I feel like is more applicable to my feelings about realm of the Elderlings than it is about first law, because with first law, I'm like, oh, what flaws? Like this, like first law is putting a penny in my pocket when I make sure I take some notes so that I have some things to let you know that are and it's OK that you'll be wrong. But yeah, definitely top shelf fantasy. Yes. Yeah. And they're up there with the Cosmere for you, right? Sorry. But like I was about to say, like, I think look, that face is pretty great. Not that Hobb is like not red or not hyped at all. Certainly people do read. Oh, my God. People are sleeping on Hobb. Like even for how many fans she has, it's not enough, given how good these books are and how often like she's left off of lists. Yes, she is. I would argue. Yeah, for me right now, Robin Hobb is my favorite fantasy author. I think she's better than Tolkien. She's better than I'm not. No, great. I'm not read all of George R.R. Martin, not read of all of Abercrombie, like whatever. But like she is the best author I have ever read in fantasy. Well, and again, like her and George R.R. Martin being friends and like having very similar interests in what they're writing about, it's just like so astounding to me that people can like, I mean, it helps that George R. Martin had a TV show. Like, I mean, if she had an HBO show, certainly her profile would be raised. But like, there's just like so much good shows. I don't know if these would make good shows or not. I think you could probably you could make a good show from this. Yeah, you'd. But I think you'd have to do some adaptation to make it simple. But I mean, I honestly, like, I mean, we're like talking after the fact. But if I had read a song of ice and fire before anybody considered adapting it, and if someone asked me, can you adapt this? I'd be like, I don't know, this could be really dumb and corny. So like, I mean, there's ice zombies and dragons. I'd be like, until HBO actually showed that you could do that and not make it look dumb. I'd have been like, I'm thinking like Hercules and Zina. And I'm like, you know what? You're right. Like, I think that HBO, if they put the money in, can make the live ships look good and to make the wit not seem dumb. And I'm sure they'll find places to put, you know, some todays to make people excited to watch the show a little bit. Part of what makes a song of ice and fire slightly less dangerous to adapt in terms of like it not translating. Well, is that like there's less like sentient speaking things? You know, it's like dragons are around, but they don't talk like there's like weird magics, but they don't talk. And it's like, it always feels cornier when you like enact a scene where like the ship is talking. You're like, yeah, it could be done. But I wonder if we can do like, I think probably one way around that is to have the speaking be in people's heads. But rather than like the dragons like opening their mouths and hi, if they want, because I just don't think that that ever looks great if they had it like the skill, I guess, maybe. Or I think with the dragons, that is kind of how they speak, where like people kind of like, it's that's what I assumed. But I don't remember what is ever actually described, but at my head, that's what they were doing. It's like not everyone is able to understand dragons. Like you have to have like the kind of like sensitivity that's like, yeah, I'd be able to hear what they're saying. So they can't just be sitting there talking because like, then everyone would be able to understand that's true. But anyway, all that to say, the fact that people don't put Hob up there. Consistently is mind boggling to me. Yeah, like, I mean, this may I mean, again, no offense to people who like these series, but like compared to anything that Brandon Sanderson or Robert Jordan has written, this is like. There is no comparison. But I think it is also because it's so emotionally taxing and people people who want to read fantasy for like, it's an adventure with magic. Wow, bam. That's true. It's probably not as in between. That's true. People read books for different reasons. And as art, this is just so on another level. But that's where entertainment may be not like that's where like if people are reading for entertainment, that's where I'm like, I don't I'm not personally entertained by the Cosmere, but I get that that's going to deliver that for you. Yeah, but if you're reading a song on Amazon Fire and you're not reading, I'm like, I don't are you are you sexist? Are you? Do you are just not aware they exist? Yeah, I don't know. So yeah, that's that's probably I'm probably being uncharitable. I'm just it's more than it's not I'm not going to put Sandow and Jordan down. It's more that I'm trying your six feet. Well, I'm trying to elevate Hobb. It's just that I think she is such a talent and comparatively has is not getting the correct amount of adulation as she deserves, which I think like a little bit, you know, more recently, people have like on booktube and whatnot been more like, hey, Hobb, so like just kind of she got illustrated editions for Farseer. So I know, but where are the rest of them? I'm there for my life, illustrated editions. And they're our Folio Society editions, not nearly as cool as the Song of Ice and Firebooks, but she's got Folio editions. Not everybody has that. That's true. But I'm just I want she deserves so much. People should be reading these books. Period. Get with the program, people. So, well, welcome to thank you for coming to my TED talk on why I'm coming home. But I think also like is slept on like the two of us going through the series, I think has shown the like breadth of what it has to offer. Because like I said, like you and I do have slightly different interests and different priorities. And like you and I feel pretty similarly about our like admiration for the series, despite the fact that like we have quite different favorites and different things we look for. Do you think you're annoyed about like? There's a lot of meat here so we can enjoy different cuts. I know you're a vegan. Sorry about that. I'm having the tofu. Yeah. Oh, yeah, dairy. They better if I don't get a fucking illustrated edition of Mad Ship and My Life at some point, I'm going to be really salty about it. You can always commission one just for yourself. And that's not enough. I want them to be on people's shelves and enjoyed. And yeah, maybe she's got 16 books. That's a lot to like. It's it's going to be a journey. I mean, the Witcher books only just got hard covers. That is true. That is true. The NKGM is instilling on the hard covers. Just not. Orbit is just not into the hard cover life, but. Well, Witcher is Orbit. So it's like, I feel like they've decided, well, we do Witcher and then you'll wait 10 years and we'll decide one series that gets some hard covers again. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a hardcover girly, so it makes me sad. But I also get from a business perspective. Well, I'm a hardcover girly for collecting and admiring. I mean, for reading paperback is easier. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I just feel like if I'm going to have it physically, I want it to be something that I can keep. Yeah. And paperbacks just fall apart so easily. So yeah. So for collecting, I want hard covers. But if I'm just like curled up on the couch, a paperback is just a lot more easy. It's fine. Yeah. Well, I got to start rocking and rolling, but I feel like hopefully we did this justice. Probably not. No, because there's 16 books. That's true. That's true. Well, we've done other live shows, though, so. Indeed, indeed. So yeah, if anyone's only watching this and is like, well, they didn't touch on the other series, oh, Contraire, Montfraire, we have. Just head back in the wayback machine and you will find. Back when we were ignorant and all of the chat was like, oh, wait till you get to Tony. Yeah, wait till you get. That would be interesting to go back and rewatch those. I kind of afraid to do it. Yeah, in the before time. Yes, I am a war wizard. No eating meat, correct? Yeah. Yes, and Dary is the biggest expert of them all on Robert the Elderlings. I don't know why we're talking about. Yeah, Dary. We have no business. I barely remember people's names. So I'm a novice. I vow at the throne. Yeah. If you just want to see me and Mara muddle through it, you know, feel free. If you want to see an expert. Yeah. Actually, I remember the names of things. Yeah, I remember the names and remember how the magic works. I'm just here for the vibe. So we're just like that one guy in that one. See, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, that thing. Yeah, I'm a theme reader. So I'm like, remember when, like, we learned all the stuff about gender and how that made me think about things, but I won't remember the names of anybody involved. Whose gender is the one with the hair and the face? Yeah, pretty much sums it up. So yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to hear what you think about broken earth, but obviously I'm most excited to get to first law. Meet my book boyfriend, Glokta. Wow, that's grim. That is grim, Garkin. That is your best boyfriend. Glokta's amazing. Face only a mother could love. He wasn't actually, he was born very, very handsome. I know, but at this point. At this point. OK, OK, OK. I mean, I know it's been a while since you read Blade itself, so I'll ask you again after you re-read it. But right now, if you had to marry Kyle Haven or Sandan Glokta. Oh, Glokta. Yeah. See, it could always be worse. Yeah. But a part of that is that I don't think that. Well, I don't know. I don't remember. Is he physically capable of downtown? No, I don't think so. So it would be like a platonic marriage. Whereas if Kyle fucking Haven put his sweaty hands on me, I would murder him. So. But it's honestly, I'd be more likely to murder him in the kitchen just having a conversation. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Indubitably. I don't know if anyone will find this funny, but I do my brother and I binge watched a bunch of Horatio Hornblowers because I have the box set. And I don't know if you've read or seen Horatio Hornblower. I feel like I caught them at some point on A&E back in the day, but. Well, the ship that he's on for most of it is called the Indefatigable. And now whenever I talk to my brother, he'll just at the randomest times be like, hmm, Indefatigably, even though it makes no sense to say that. Just as opposed to like indubitably. It's just such a word that you never, ever use. Now we're using it. Yeah. It's a good word. All right. Well, that's that's it, guys. We'll see you next time when Mara has gotten through some first law. Yeah. And you can come check out. We're going to do a group ranking on my channel on, I think we said April 2nd. That sounds right. So. Yes. Keep your eyes open for that. Leanne will be there. Jimmy. I forget. Dario will be there. Evie. And someone else I forget who, but. Oh, it's your very first live stream. Oh, welcome. Indeed. There's the backlog. Yeah, there's more. Yeah. If you're not. It'll be in the evening on April 2nd. That sounds right. Yeah. I'd have to double check, but it's up there. I posted it, so. Go check the facts. And yeah. Till next time. Have a great rest of your weekend. Bye. Bye.