 Jay, thanks for coming on the show. So, uh, we just kind of started getting into the, the space of peptides, which has been fascinating for someone like me. I'm a big supplement guy. Um, and I'd say over the last maybe year, I've really started kind of diving into this whole world of peptides, had no idea that it was so comprehensive, really didn't understand its impact was hearing a lot of things about peptides, started diving in. And when I would go online and look up articles and read, you know, about different compounds, your stuff kept popping up and I would share your stuff the most and I read your stuff the most because it was really good. I really liked the way you write. Um, you seem like you really know what you're talking about. So that's why I have you on the shows. I wanted to talk about some of that stuff, but for an audience who may not know who you are, maybe give a little background and kind of what got you into the space and why you do what you do. Well, first of all, let me just say, I appreciate you guys. Uh, I'm honored, privileged, humbled to be here. Really grateful. Um, it's an honor really. So thank you guys for having me. Um, so my claim to fame, if there is one on the internet, as I wrote, uh, the number one selling book ever, according to Amazon on, uh, hormone optimization or testosterone therapy, right? So you guys are familiar with those books. Uh, this first one was called the definitive TRT manual. And then the last one or the most recent one was the TOT Bible in 2018. Um, but I've been kind of like, I'm just turned 52 literally on Friday. So I've kind of an old, an OG biohacker in that I've been in this space, like, you know, behind the scenes using peptides, using hormones. If you guys can believe this, I've been using peptides since 2004. Wow. Yeah. So where did you find it? Yeah. So, uh, so long story, but, uh, very interesting, uh, there was a company called Southern research chemical company, which is in, it's actually, nobody knew where it was at the time, but I found out later in Dallas, Texas, and they were literally selling peptides out of the back of a compound pharmacy. Okay. But it was a research chemical company. And, um, I first, uh, you know, just through like underground, and you guys were all a part of this too, you know, like the underground, uh, bro bodybuilding boards, like anabolic fitness. I mean, there's so many of them. I won't name some of them, right? Cause they're still kind of anonymous, but, uh, you know, just through bros and stuff like that. You know, I found out about it and I started using, uh, Ipumerellen. I was like one of the first people, or at least from that company to use it. And it was just profound in it, and in the effects that it gave my body from a fat loss, body composition change, uh, also deep sleep and stuff. So through that, and then just, you know, my experience, uh, you know, with my story on, uh, hormones and what happened to me, I got kicked in the testicles when I was 29 years old playing basketball and I went home and, um, you know, eight, six, eight weeks later, I started feeling horrible and I went to a, just a general PPO and HMO doctor. And the guy referred me to, uh, an endocrinologist. And it turned out that the guy was a world renowned endocrinologist by the name of Dr. Raymond Scruggs. And he said, Hey man, he took my test and, uh, I had the levels of a geriatric from a testosterone standpoint. He says, Hey, I can put you on therapeutic testosterone, uh, and get you right as rain here. And, you know, six, eight, 10 weeks, whatever. But, you know, go home and talk to your wife about it. So I did, um, and you know, she was like, you're a smart guy. Why not? So I went on therapeutic testosterone and, you know, it's to, to make a very long story short, uh, eight weeks later, when he wanted to take me off, I was like, I don't want to come off this. I feel absolutely amazing. So I literally had just turned 30. Okay. I did not have kids yet. I have two dollars. Yeah. It was a long time ago. I've been on therapeutic testosterone for 22 years, but it was so transformative for me that, that I became like this, you know, research advocate of it, started reading as much as I could, you know, reach, reached out to people that had written books like, uh, Nelson Virgil, who wrote the first real book on testosterone that people read, which was called testosterone is a man's guide and shout out to Nelson. If he still listens to this podcast, because, uh, you know, as I always say, stepping on the shoulders of giants, but he helped mentor me, uh, to write my books and stuff like that. But anyway, I was a real student of, let's just call this the biohacking space, you know, I would rate, I read prolifically everything I can get my hands on, you know, from Bulgarian and Russian research, um, you know, to whatever was out there, obviously the underground forums, you know, this is way before Reddit, I always think of anabolic fitness and I think there was another one miscellaneous fitness wage, you know, you guys remember, yeah, so there was, you know, as much information I could get, but then I really just became, like I said, the ultimate biohacker and that I was very meticulous and I tabulated like how I would do it. I, I used every form at the time of, uh, therapeutic testosterone from transdermal to obviously injectable to subcutaneous, uh, shots and now all the way up until today, like I don't even use injectable anymore. I use transcrotal. So I put the cream on the base of my scrotum, right? So it's like, I've used every, uh, you know, delivery system and I've worked with a lot of different doctors. Um, and thankfully I've been blessed to meet amazing people such as your guys, such as you guys, um, you know, who, who've also connected me to other thought leaders and stuff in, in this space. So, you know, between the hormones and then, you know, using peptides, like I said, which I really started to get into heavily in the late 2000s, uh, up until this day, you know, I've been able to, you know, just hobnob with, you know, Dr. Seeds and, you know, other amazing people that are in that space. And so, you know, I was obviously able to write this book that just was published about a month, actually about five weeks ago now, um, which is optimize your health with therapy. Yeah. Yeah. No. And like I said, I really like your, your, your content. It's, uh, it's quite balanced. So I'm learning a lot from reading some of the stuff you've, you've written. So peptides we learned, we had Dr. Seeds on the show not that long ago and I asked them, what's the difference between peptides and drugs? And he said, well, peptides are based off of signaling chemicals and compounds that your body already has, which is very different than, than drugs. So that was really, that kind of blew me away, right? Because I thought, well, why, why do we keep referring them to them as peptides if they have drug like actions in the body? So that's a big difference. And, and the way he explained it is he said that because these signaling molecules already exist in the body, your body knows what to do with them. Exactly. It doesn't have these, you know, down regulating effects. It doesn't have these downstream effects that we don't quite understand. We kind of understand because your body already uses these things. So it's a very different category of, of medicine. It seems to be blowing up a lot now. Seems to be like, so, so when you first started using versus now, how big of a difference do you see in just, you know, questions and people using them? And is it look like it's the next frontier for medicine? It's an awesome question. So let's talk a little bit about the science without blowing anybody away. So everything that Dr. Sears said is true. So the difference between peptides and drugs or synthetic, you know, agents that, you know, big pharma produces is that peptides literally address the fundamental root cause, right? So they are fundamentally addressing the regenerative effect that that peptide can produce in the body. As I was telling you guys off before we went live, you know, there's now also coming out of Russia, the bioregulators, people are finding out about what bioregulators are and they're actually tissue specific and they're oral. So you can actually take an oral bioregulator that's designed to work on the prostate and somehow, and we don't even actually know like there's a great Russian researcher, Dr. Cavanson, that's written to book on bioregulators. And by the way, the Russians have patented heavily bioregulators coming into the states, but they're actually available. We can talk at some point in the show about them and how to get them if you want. But somehow they avoid first pass, you know, in the liver and also in the digestive system and they specifically target the tissue that the bioregulators designed. So they have them for the heart, they have them for the kidneys, they have them for the intestines, they have them for the testes. Again, the prostate, I mean, it's unreal how amazing these things are. But, you know, with peptides, back to your original question, they are addressing the fundamental root cause. So you can use a peptide to actually target an illness, a disease, an injury, you know, some sort of specificity and it can heal it versus, again, a big pharma, which is, you know, obviously making for the most part drugs that treat symptoms, you know, and are never really ultimately addressing the fundamental root cause. Yeah. All right, everybody, today's giveaway is the RGB bundle. This includes maps, anabolic mass performance and maps aesthetic. Here's how you can have a chance to win that bundle. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it here on YouTube. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section that you got free access to the RGB bundle. We're also running a sale right now on some workout programs. We put a bunch of them together in a bundle. It's called the Time Crunch bundle. What's included is maps at 15 minutes, maps anywhere, maps prime and the ebook eat for performance. So that's all together and it's discounted over $200 off. That means you only paying $99 and 99 cents. If you want to learn more or you're just wanting to sign up, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. Russia came up. Why are they so? Why are they at the at the forefront of this kind of research? Because every time I read about him, like, you know, it's been used in Russia for a long time, study human studies in Russia and I keep keep coming up because obviously the aliens in Russia are a little bit more advanced. No, truthfully, it's funny that you guys say that because yeah, I can go back to testosterone. The same thing when I first started researching testosterone and I couldn't find anything. I was all all I would be led back to was Bulgarian and Russian research, which you couldn't read Russian. You ain't getting the information, right? Like, this is obviously back in the late 90s and the early 2000s. That's a good question. I mean, the Russians have been using peptides since the 40s. OK, yes. I didn't think it was around that long. Well, so that's the thing is like, if you look and again, it's in my book in the very beginning, we can default to the book. There's a little bit of history about peptides, but the United States knew about peptides in the 30s, right? Like they were just, you know, again, if we want to put our tinfoil hats on, you know, the Rockefeller Foundation, which owned medicine and took over allopathic medicine, you know, they were like, no, we want to use petroleum based medical products because that's how we make money. Whereas again, the peptides, there's no way to patent them because there's so many of them and they're also based on organic in our biological systems. So you can't make money, right? So it's like, oh, we're going away from those. But the Russians were looking at things differently that, you know, they were looking at, like, well, how do we treat illness and disease in a way that can actually solve it, you know, versus like in the United States, you've got to make money, man. The corporatocracy, that's how it works here. So I mean, very truthfully, I mean, they've known about them and the Russians obviously just played it out. But like I said, man, and I don't want to go skirt over peptides, but bioregulators and the more I read about bioregulators, the more I'm more, I'm getting blown away by it. Yeah. So bioregulator, explain that. What does that mean? What does that mean exactly? So a bioregulator is basically an advanced form of I mean, essentially, it's, you know, like the peptides, which are getting our organic molecules, I like to call them fractionated proteins, but they're, they work in tissue specific sensitivity, right? So like when you take them and they're orally bioavailable, which is insane. If you read the Cavinson protocol book again from Dr. Cavinson, who's like the premier Russian bioregulator, bioregulator expert, they don't really understand how they actually work in the human body. That's why I go back to the aliens card, right? Like, we don't kind of understand how these work, but they are orally bioavailable. And when you look at the research, again, there are 40 years of research with them. I mean, they do unreal things. Like, for example, all of us, like over the age of 40 guys, we should be on the prostate bioregulator, right? Because it literally goes to strengthening the prostate as we age. Because as you guys know, as we age, the prostate, you know, increases in size and it narrows, it constricts the urethra and all the other tissues and tubials down there. So it lowers our urine volume, right? So like, if you use this actual bioregulator, prostate-specific medication, it will strengthen the prostate so you won't have the BPH issues that 95% of guys do as they age, right? And then you extrapolate that with, like, the heart, you extrapolate that with the kidneys, you extrapolate that with, like, every organ system they have bioregulators. So it's pretty profound to see, like, what is actually out there with these things. Like, my website, you guys are talking about my writing and that's, like, the new frontier for us from a copywriting standpoint is to really get deep into the bioregulators and start talking about them because, for the first time, maybe an ever. And I want to say, like, it's in the last three to six months, you can now get them in the United States. They're selling them on Amazon. What? Yes! Wow, what? It's unreal stuff. And these things are very profound, very, very powerful medications. Now, did you say that it actually bypasses the liver or kidneys and just goes straight? It has this, exactly. How is that possible? It has this insane, no one truly understands, but it does. It is able to be tissue specific and it does get through the first pass in the liver. It does get through the microbiome, you know, impermitability issues that a lot of medications have because they get destroyed in the stomach acid. Yeah. So it's not like other medications that they survive passing through the liver and actually cause elevated liver enzymes. Right. Oh, no, totally. There's there's there's no side effects at least understood from what we understand right now with the bioregulators. Again, they're amazing. What about peptide with that? So one of the things that concerned me when we first were introduced to peptides one, I didn't know they had been around that long. So I thought it was like kind of the the front end of this. And I'm like, well, what happens in 20 years? You know, so this has been around forever. Are there any side effects or adverse things that we've seen from peptides? Yeah, so I mean, you know, to give Tim Ferriss some credit, you know, he always says the difference between a pill and a poison is the dosage, right? So the reality is like anything, if you take too much of something, there's always a risk-reward benefit. And sometimes, again, especially in our world, right, with like bros, they like to take the more is better effect, right? So yes, I mean, you can always have side effects and, you know, quote-unquote symptomology from what you're taking. But for the most part, peptides are pretty well tolerated. Like I'll give you a good example, like obviously right now, and you guys know this and and I obviously affiliate from one of them. The research chemical companies are everywhere, man. They're like a diamond doesn't know they pop up on the corner. You see them on Facebook advertising this and that. Like if they were truly dangerous, meaning peptides, you would have a lot of people that would have problems, right? So like and again, me being in the space as long as I have, like the worst I've seen is, you know, somebody taking an entire bottle of something because again, we can talk about that, right? Like reconstituting and understanding the difference between micrograms and milligrams, all this stuff becomes so confusing. Oh, that could be a big deal, right? Take 10 micrograms, 10 milligrams. You guys, you can't imagine the amount of messages I get from people that get confused about it because obviously they want to use them, but then they're like, oh, I bought all this stuff and now I have to reconstitute. What do I do? But I mean, the side effects, I mean, again, in the worst case scenarios, again, someone overdoses and then they get, you know, a red, you know, flushing sensation or they get like an itching or, you know, like a cellulitis from like injecting subcutaneously or something. But I've never really seen anybody who got truthfully sick. Now there are peptides, you know, that like melanotan 2, some of the other peptides that can cause nausea. Again, if you take too much of them or if you have a like a genetic, you know, sensitivity or proclivity, you know, some people have polymorphisms that may, you know, show that they're predictive, like if they inject this type of thing, they may get a reaction to it, but they're very well tolerated. Yeah. And that's just because they exist. They already exist. Are there certain ones? Like I right away, I would think like, you know, Tessa Morlin or these ones that that bump HGH, I would think those would be the ones that people would try and push the boundaries with, like how close can I get to this thing producing as much human growth hormone as possible? Is that what are there common ones that people mess with like that and overdose? Yeah, no, I mean, absolutely. I mean, again, the whole, you know, bro, more is better thing. I mean, we should probably spend some time talking about the growth hormone related peptides. So like again, and for the listening audience, you know, everything is in my book. And if you don't want to buy my book, that's cool too. Because as you guys know, it's all for free on the website. It's on jcamble.com. But Tessa Morlin is a very interesting peptide. So it's and let me take a step back just so again, for the listening audience. So there's probably now between eight and 14. I think FDA approved peptides. OK, so again, well studied, well used, one of the biggest, most well known that you guys probably talked about with seeds is TA1, which is thymus and alpha one, which I know we're going to talk about longevity and stuff like that at some point in this podcast. But TA1 is literally like a sham wow peptide. Like that peptide. You just did a sham wow. Yeah. So that peptide and GHKCU are the sham wow peptides and that they have so many uses. They're so utilitarian. You can use them in like so many different capacities. But it's, you know, obviously TA1 is FDA approved. So every doctor that is out there that prescribes peptides or knows anything about peptides is prescribing that for his patients or their patients. Because I mean, look, you can take TA1 just before you get on an airplane because it enhances immunity so much, right? Like it literally within an hour will it provide an immune effect or stimulate immunity to your body? So, you know, from a quote unquote bio weapon to, you know, airborne viruses and all these other things. I mean, like that's going to provide, you know, massive immunity stimulation like right before you take it. So, but to say testimony on so testimony on is also a FDA approved peptide under the name a grifta. And just so you guys know if you're listening to the audience, it was actually made for guys who are suffering from HIV who are HIV positive who get what is known as condition called lipodystrophy. And lipodystrophy is like really hard visceral fat in the center adiposity. And when you have lipodystrophy, it's that the visceral fat is so hard. It's very difficult to get rid of. Like they can't even have liposuction. So they developed this drug. I'm pretty sure fact check me was either Merck or Lily. And when you inject it into that lipodystrophy fat or that lipodystrophy fat, it literally like emulsifies it and just it's like a hot knife through butter. So for bros, right? You got a belly fat. You inject it right into the belly fat. It's pretty, pretty effective in getting rid of the fat right in the midsection. So I started using Tessemerelle and myself in 2018 from Taylor made compound pharmacy, which is at one point where all the doctors and everybody in that peptide space were getting their peptides from. And I was like blown away guys. I mean, in four weeks, like, you know, I'm pretty lean guy, but like just the little tiny bit of belly fat I had around my midsection was gone in four weeks. I mean, it was gone. So it radically gets rid of belly fat. The problem with the grift now is it's hard to find it. You know, there's only a couple of the research chemical companies that sell it because it is an FDA approved peptide. It's technically not able to be sold by a research chemical company. I mean that we can talk about that if you guys want to get into that too. That's a whole weird whole thing, you know, how the FDA looks at those companies versus compound pharmacies. But the next thing that's important about it is it's outrageously expensive. It's more expensive than growth hormone. So if you're gonna like be comparing it to like a really high quality growth hormone pound for pound, you know, is it worth or is it as effective as growth hormone? I don't think it is. And I also know that it's not as, it's more expensive, right? It's more accessible though, right? So that's probably the, I mean, not by someone like you who probably has those kind of connections. I mean, that's a good point and a good question because it really depends. I mean, like if you're connected to somebody in the HIV world, it's very accessible. But it's 4,200 bucks a month for a script for it. And it's only in the way they want you to dose, it's like one milligram at night. Like for guys like us to lose belly fat or to rip through visceral body fat, you're the dosage is one milligram AM, one milligram PM. But you know, to talk about the other growth hormone inducing peptide. Yeah, because it's Eipa Mariland, they're CJC. Yeah, so Eipa Mariland. Yeah, so Eipa Mariland was the first, as I told you guys, that's how I got my experience in starting peptides way back in the early days of 2000. And that is a very interesting peptide because it's the only growth hormone. It's a GNRH peptide. And again, all this is defined in the book without going to esoteric and your granular and you know, boring people. It is the only peptide that will not disturb the body's endogenous production. And it also doesn't have the ability like most peptides do to increase prolactin and cortisol, which as you guys know cortisol, you know, you don't want more of that. And prolactin obviously causes all sorts of like glandular issues. Sometimes it can actually induce gyno in men, but that was the one that I was using. I actually used that with my wife, you know, back when we heard I met in 2012, been together for 10 years, but like she was a female fitness competitor at the time and I got around Eipa Mariland in like six months, her body changed so much. Like so much so that her family was like, oh my God, this guy's got her on these drugs and what is happening to her and stuff like that. But I actually have a, you know, we have a picture of like what she went from to what she looks like in the book. Back in 2012, when I first started using Eipa Mariland and you know, that was when people were like, what is this? But it's a very profound peptide. That's my favorite peptide for anybody looking to use or you know, introduce increasing growth hormone without doing anything to their body's natural production of it. But you guys were right. You know, Eipa, Ibutomorin, which is called, you know, in the research chemical space, MK677, don't like that one, even though it does have nice effects on increasing growth hormone because it does increase prolactin, it does increase cortisol and it has this disturbing side effect of increasing appetite. Big time. So that's so, so I just, so this one. That's why he had to get off of it. No, no, no, so this one I've used. You guys eat every five minutes dude. Okay, so it's a gorilla, it's a ghrelin mimic, right? And ghrelin takes it to his teeth. So here's what I noticed with the growth hormone releasing because I've now, I've tried the CJC, I think it was a 1295 with an Eipa-Marellin combo. I did the Tessa-Marellin, Eipa-Marellin combo. And then I've done the Ibutomorin. The other ones seem to give me kind of a leaning out effect, kind of a rejuvenating effect. Ibutomorin is like a mass builder. Part of it is because it makes me eat a lot. Did it make you wake up in the middle of the night? No, not that bad. It does that to some people though. Not that bad, but I'll literally. I actually felt like I slept hard on it. I do sleep hard on it. That's what I felt on it. But I get crazy pumps in the gym, like I get a bulker. So people who take growth hormone releasing peptides typically want to get lean. Right, exactly. Ibutomorin, there's no way I could diet on Ibutomorin. There's no way, it's a bulker for me. It's 100%, so I've only used it twice and when I was using it, and by the way, that's also been around a long time. The research chemical companies have been selling that one since like 2009, 2010. It was like right after Ibutomorin. But I've used the compound pharmacies and we could talk about research chemical quality versus compound and stuff like that if you guys want to. There's not much of a difference even though the hype is very real and that there is. When I used it, it's the same thing. Like I literally, I have a pretty crazy appetite as it is. And I was like, I can't, this is insane. But I would literally wake up in the middle of the night and be like, I gotta eat that. I mean, I was raiding my refrigerator. But the other problem about that medication, and again, this is like very understood in the clinical literature, is that it eventually stops working. All right. Like it's, so let's talk about that. So this is why peptides need to be cycled is that the body, again, being a very effective homeostatic mechanism or regulating group of biological systems eventually just gets to a point when it's using peptides where it's like, okay, this isn't gonna work anymore. And we build up antibodies to that. And then once the antibodies are built up, and again, this is really gonna come down to all of us as end users, because we're all biochemically unique, as you guys know, and different, we're all end of one. You have to know when it's not working anymore. And so you have a lot of bros that aren't really truly intuitive and in tune to them. And they're like using these things for like 14, 16, 18 weeks. And it's like, it stopped working at like six weeks or seven weeks or eight weeks. So you really have to know when you're using peptides, like, am I still seeing an effect? And so I just tell people, like when I consult with them or work with them and stuff like that is like, look, man, just to make it clear and safe. And again, there's no templatized cookie cutter approaches. Don't use peptides for longer than eight weeks because the likelihood that you have antibody built up in formation at that point is pretty high. And so you're just not gonna see the same results. So you should, you know, six to eight weeks and then take the same amount of time off if you're gonna just do them again. Interesting. I haven't heard anyone say that yet. Yeah, no. Oh, no. Well, let me blow your mind even further. And again, nobody talks about this. And this is why people love me when I do this because I go after doctors. You also have to realize like, if you're a certain age, right? And you don't have any natural IGF-1 production left. How is a peptide even gonna work, right? Because how do they work? They're stimulating your natural IGF-1 production. Again, the growth hormone releases, right? So like if you're 55 years old and you don't have any idea what your IGF-1 levels are, first get tested, right? They're very cheap. You gotta test anywhere for 30 to 40 bucks. And then look, know what you're working with. If you don't have any, you know, you can't use Ipumarallan or Tessumarallan, like somebody who's 40 years old has high IGF-1 levels, you know what I'm saying? Because like it's not gonna work anyway. So that's when I tell people like, you really have to understand like, when does growth hormone come into the play versus peptides? And, you know, I'm happy to go deep on growth hormone because I've written a very, you know, 10,000 word article on growth hormone. I know all the research I've looked into it. I personally use growth hormone now. And I use a very surgically precise low dose and I take off the weekends. So I use genotropin in a 36 IU pen, Monday through Friday, one IU. And I've obviously, yeah, just one IU, that's it. And look, here's the problem with growth hormone. And this is where all the research is indicative of this. And this is where people get lost. And again, doctors will dispute me, probably seeds, I know, you know, even I will go back and forth on this, but all the research in growth hormone is in co-morbid people. Okay, so older, elderly, sick people and in children that have dwarfism, right? And they're taking, exactly, and they're taking massive amounts of growth hormone and they don't have the side effects. Now, the side effects that they do have are achromology, right? Which is increased in size of bones. But for the kids that are dwarfs, you know, them they'll take like enlarged, you know, bone structures or whatever to be taller. And by the way, growth hormone normally works in like 80% of those people, right? So they end up becoming quote unquote normal size, right? But when you look at people like us, right? Aging men and women who are literally looking to live longer and stronger, there is no research anywhere that doesn't show positive benefits of using growth hormone. The problem is, and again, it's the more is better deal is that we see bodybuilders and we see performance in half people taking 10 and 15 and 20 IUs of this stuff a day. And then they're combining it with insulin. They're combining it with anabolic agents, testosterone, blah, blah, blah, all these other things. That's when you see side effect profile. That's when you see injury, that's when you see potential disease states, you know, you hear these people screaming about how growth hormone can exacerbate metastatic tumor formation and it can increase the risk that you get cancer. Maybe, right? But that's also if you're not using it in a surgically precise dose. So I'm all about using peptides. I'm all about using growth hormone. But again, it's always about the dosage. What dosage makes sense? Who are you as far as your age? You know, are you really truly looking at your IGF-1 levels? Do you understand like whether a peptide's gonna work versus growth hormone? And I'll tell people this, this is very true. The average 60-year-old person who doesn't have high IGF-1 levels or any IGF-1 levels is not gonna get the same effect using peptides that they would use growth hormone. Now what's interesting is that taking ACH is the opposite than what the peptides, because that is something that you wanna take for an extended period of time to get the benefits of it, right? So if you were taking something like Tessa Moreland, you're saying you run that for like eight weeks, cycle off of it. You're taking something like HGH, that's something that you- You just always take. Exactly, you're a smart guy. You wanna make sure though. And again, for me, discretion is always a better part of valor. You definitely want to make sure that you're giving your body some time off, right? So I mean, at the end of the day, you're gonna hear doctors say, oh, if you get on growth hormone, you're gonna become dependent on it. I've tested myself since I started using growth hormone, which was two years ago, by the way, IGF, you know, every other marker and on or off, it's the same. So I am not disturbing my body's natural production by taking one IU and taking Saturday and Sunday off. But here's the thing. And this is also where people get confused. And I'm sure you're gonna have people, when they hear this podcast, you know, in the comment section saying stuff, the bros are gonna say this. And I love the bros. I love, shout out to all my bodybuilder buddies, okay? The difference between using genotropin, which is Pfizer growth hormone, or Nordotropin, which is Nordisk growth hormone and bro growth hormone. Like Chinese growth hormone. You guys, it's literally like, it's not even apples and oranges. I mean, it's not even Mars and Venus. I mean, the differentiation is so just, it's just gigantic. It's a golf, right? You don't even know what you're getting when you're using generic growth hormone coming from China. I've experienced it. We don't have to get into 191 and 192, you know, amino acid sequencing and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, if you're using a pharmaceutical-grade growth hormone in a very surgically precise dose and you're doing it right, and by the way, doing it right is taking it in the morning. Doing it wrong is taking it at night. Because then you'll disturb your own person, right? Yes, and you disturb your circadian rhythm. That's why all the bros, they take it at night because they're so geared out on everything else, it does allow them to sleep better, but then what else happens to happen? They gotta take naps during the day, right? Constantly, I gotta take a nap, bro. Because they're disturbing their circadian rhythm. It's because I'm growing. But that's true too, but they are disturbing their circadian rhythm, but if you're taking growth hormone, again, for life extension purposes to live longer, stronger, leaner, all the things you guys talked about, better sleep, better skin quality. By the way, it also enhances libido, right? There's a well-being effect. It does dopamine signaling. So if you're taking this low dosage of it, I, and again, this is just the J. Campbell personal opinion, take the weekends off. Now, a lot of people, again, a lot of clinicians who do understand growth hormone and there aren't enough of them will say, oh, you don't need to do that at a certain age. You don't have any natural production of IGF-1 levels. So just do it seven days a week. Just take a surgically precise dose. Again, I like the discretion as a better form of hour. Take time off, right? Just allow your body to have two days a week off of it. So I just use Monday through Friday in the morning. Yeah, interesting. You were talking about taking one IU. I read an article about Ibutamorn in particular where they were showing blood work and they were saying it was equivalent to three to four IU's of growth hormone. It probably is, and that's probably the reason. Yeah, well, that's, and that's also the reason why that shit sucks, because it's causing, yeah, it's causing Ibutamorn of all the peptides, like in the research, in the clinical research, it shows the greatest variational release of prolactin and cortisol. So it's whacking you. So yeah, so, so when- I mean, you feel it. I mean, I- Oh, absolutely. But so when is Ibutamorn good? It's great for hard gainers. It's definitely good for skinny, you know, really thin guys that just cannot put on weight. Yeah. Just not you. Yeah. But I mean, you know what I'm saying, but like, no, but I mean, like little, you guys know, you know, you guys know this because you guys are in training game for a long time. Like when people say I'm a hard gainer, A, they can't eat a lot, right? Yeah. And it's usually because they have digestive tract issues, right? So like people like that, it's great for, because they will be hungrier. They will be able to eat more and be able to train at a higher intensity with more food. But other than that, I would never use it because of the exact same things. Just causing spikes. Yeah. That's what, so what I noticed is a high appetite. I got water retention, but crazy. Water retention is insane. But crazy pumps. You know what you're reminding me of. So my experience using, you know, things that were quote, unquote, I mean, I guess black market, gray market. Early 2000s, this was the designer steroid era, right? It was when they were all over the counter. Clear. Yeah. Like, you know, super draw. Methyl one, remember that shit? Yeah. Methyl one, one test. Your liver would fall out after a week. Yeah. Well, I had, you know, I was, I was, I was just at the supplement store. I'm like, this work does take it. The irony of that you would have been better off taking real stairs. I would have been better off buying D-ball, the black market or something like that. But, but yeah, I was because it was over the counter. So that's what I bought. It reminds me of stuff like that. Like I take it and I feel it. So, but I'm like, this is not to get lean. There's no way I can get lean on this because I just get too hungry. I'm interested in, because you said you were using a blend of Ipa and Tessa. So for everybody listening, Ipa and Tessa is by far the, you know, that's the Rolls Royce Platinum deluxe package of getting strong and building muscle with peptides. Okay. Those two peptides massively increase intercellular water retention, which as you know, is going to allow you to stretch your muscles, get better pump, be stronger, have much better glycogen. It also enhances the enzyme. Ipa and Tessa together, there's research to show this increases glycogen synthase or whatever that enzyme is that allows for better glycogen restoration. So I did it one time in my life and you guys, it's the same thing as you. I was so strong, but I literally was like looking down at my stomach and I'm like holding like two inches of water in my belly button and I'm like, ah, you know, I don't like this. It's interesting. It is interesting. All right. So I want to move into longevity peptides. This is where I'm really getting fascinated because I just turned 44 and I just started using a peptide that you could loosely place. So we're working with a company and they, and I told them, I'm like, make me your guinea pig, send me what you think I would be cool to try because then I could talk about it on the show. So they sent me something called MOTC and it's, I guess you could loosely put it in the longevity category, although other people would put it in like the fat loss category or whatever. I say loosely because what I've read on it so far is they found that people who live a long time have more MOTC in their system than people who don't. Well anyway, I just started it and it has to be my favorite peptide so far. Like lots of energy. I feel very clear headed. My workout performance seems pretty surreal in terms of stamina. So let's go with the longevity. Start with MOTC just for selflessly. I'm fascinated by it and what the hell it's doing in my body. I've read some of your stuff, but I'd love to talk to you about it. Well, let me ask you first, like what is your dosing protocol with it? 10 milligrams. It was started three days a week and then once a week afterwards. Okay, so you're getting like a 10 milligram vial and injecting the whole thing? That's right. Wow. That's a big dose. Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, look, I mean, look. Well, so it's interesting and it's perfect. No, no, no, it's a perfect way to talk about this because I think the biggest confusion principle for people that do peptides is how much bacterial static water do I put in the vial? If the vial isn't coming with bacterial static water and we can even talk about that, right? Because the difference between research chemical companies and compounding pharmacies is compounding pharmacy is licensed to sell you a drug that you can use right away. Right. Versus a research chemical company isn't. There's a couple steps, right? Exactly. And the research chemical company is like indemnifying themselves that you're using it on your laboratory animal and that this is not for human use, right? But we all know that, I mean, look, let's be honest. We all know that people are using them on themselves. They are their own laboratory animal. And the differentiation is that the research chemical company is not quote unquote making their products in a sterile, you know, compound pharmacy, you know, stringent quality control itself like that. This is why I do that. Right. But the truth is, is, you know, I know the businesses very well, obviously. And a lot of the research chemical companies are using very similar quality control that the compound pharmacies are. Okay. And then you got to even go deeper, right? Like where are they getting their raw materials? Where are they getting their active ingredients? And the best ones are getting them from the same place. And, you know, I happen to know, you know, that whole business and industry also too. So it's like, you got to be, you know, just use. How do I say this the best way? Say, you know, be a smart consumer. Make sure that if you're buying your peptides from a research chemical company that is, you know, gets good reviews and that you know where they're getting their stuff from. Because I'll be honest with you guys, there definitely are research chemical companies up making it, you know, like that, on top of that every night, right? In their kitchen. Okay. Or their basement or their bathroom, wherever it is. And a lot of them are completely unregulated. And, you know, you ask that question, you know, like, what are the risks? Well, I mean, in something like that, there's contamination risks. Now, again, peptides are very, very well tolerated and you have never seen anybody, at least that I know of, who's died from a peptide injection. Let's not say it couldn't happen, but just be very cautious on that. But back to MOTC and that was a nice little rabbit hole. MOTC is an amazing mitochondrial stimulator. Okay. So like, if we, you know, do a quick deep dive on like, what are the mitochondria? You guys all know from 10th grade biology, they're the powerhouses of the cells, right? Like the mitochondria of the cells are what, you know, enhances or increases energy. So MOTC stimulates the mitochondrial to optimize. Okay. In the cells. So the less optimized a person is mitochondrially, the more effect technically or theoretically MOTC will work. Now, the fact that you told me, you're down the second person, Ben Polkolsky, being the other one, and we all know Ben is a monster. I mean, he isn't anymore, but he's still, man. I mean, he's got more muscle than most of us combined. He's still a monster. Yeah, he's still a monster. But I mean, like, I mean, honestly, I just sat on his Zoom call with him two days ago and I'm looking at him like, Ben, you starting to look like me, bro. Like, what's going on? No, but I mean, like, you know how it is. I mean, like, when you're not a pro bodybuilder anymore, you're not going to look like a mutant anymore, right? But like, I love Ben, man. Ben's the most amazing human on the planet. But the truth is that- He got good results from it as well, right? Amazing. So both of you guys are telling me that. So like, because I was under the assumption, and this is just more learning even for me, which is obviously a never-ending process of life, of learning, right? What is it like? The more you learn, the less you know, right? But the truth is, is like, I used to think, based on my experience and what I would see with people, that the less conditioned a person were, was the better the results from MOTC, which makes sense because again, they don't have their mitochondrial optimized. So the heavier, more obese, more inflamed, more insulin resistant one is, the less they have mitochondrial stimulation. So all of a sudden you inject MOTC in and it's like an accelerate. And they're like, whoa. And I've seen heavy people go on that and they're like, this is the most amazing. You know, they like change. They're like, oh my God, I feel like you know, man, like I want to work out twice a day. So that's weird. So I mean, again, I think it's another interesting pattern that we're not, we're so all biochemically unique. Because as I told you guys, like when I use MOTC, I don't get that effect at all. Like I don't feel anything. I mean, actually the only thing that I felt the very, very first time, and by the way, I did the same thing you did, I did, I didn't do it all at once. So I took five and five, but it was in the same day. I was laying there staring at the ceiling. That wasn't bad, like what's going on. But I did not feel like better energy to train and stuff like that. So again, we're all unique. But again, in the research, it's an amazing peptide. I mean, for heavy people, this is a peptide that will change the game. Like absolutely if you are obese or you are heavy and you're listening to this podcast and you need to lose weight, this is a peptide that must be in your protocol. Without question. Jay, can you explain to me how that is different than say something like infrared light? So like how do those differentiate and would there be value in taking MOTC with the infrared? 100% there would be value, again, depending on the person. So I mean, the infrared stimulation is just not as profound as the MOTC, right? Because the MOTC is being injected right into the cell. So you're literally hitting the cells or hitting the mitochondria at the place that they're origin versus the red light is more of an external weaker stimuli. But in combination, they're amazing. Without question. I mean, like, I actually, it just made me think of something because like, and we can talk about this too, like I'm really big into hair loss and hair regrowth. You know, and there's profound stuff coming. Like I actually work with a company that's making a hair regrowth product right now that's topical that will literally be the most amazing thing in the history of the world. It's going to regrow people's hair. Like, transplants are probably about five years going to be gone. That's how profound some of these peptide regrowth products are. Get your hair back, Adam. Yeah, yeah, me too. I mean, me too, man. Yeah, you have follicles, so you can absolutely regrow. I always tell people, like, if you don't have active follicles on your scalp, then no peptide's going to work. But if you have active follicles, then it'll regrow. And very important too for the listening audience. And, you know, we wrote this article, like, I can't believe it's almost three years ago now and the New York Times picked it up. But we now know what causes hair loss, right? What do you guys think? What caused it all? Well, what I've always read was, it was just DHT receptors, right? So androgenic alopecia. Okay. Nope. What do you think it is? That's it. I want you guys to guess. Because no, it's an interesting thing. I mean, just genetic factors for the most part, right? There's part of that. That's part of it. So all those things play a role, but the primary reason that we lose hair is due to blood flow restriction to the scalp. Oh, really? So we now know that even if you guys, you guys are all right partially. So I should hang upside down every night? That would help me? I literally would, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. So yes, there is a predisposition to balding, which is what you said. Androgenic alopecia. Yes, people have a genetic predisposition to thinning, but if we control for blood flow restriction, which peptides can do, red light can do, these new bioregulators are probably going to be able to do, then we can actually slow down, even if we're genetically predisposed to lose our hair completely, right? So these topical peptide formulations with very powerful angiogenic cofactors like GHKCU, copper peptide, which we'll talk about as we go deeper, can absolutely regrow hair to the scalp. It's actually pretty profound. Like I said, I'm kind of a geek into that research right now, but what's coming and it's not long is products that will regrow your hair completely. Wow. Okay. That's huge. But DHT inhibition, just so we can talk about that for one second. Yeah, because right now people will take things like finasteride, deutasteride. So this is, again, I'm going to blow minds here and I'm going to get, you know, push back from people, but DHT inhibition, the only thing that DHT inhibition actually does from a hair loss stoppage standpoint is it attaches to the receptors in the scalp, which prevents further diminu- diminuturization. So as you guys know, and you guys have heard this from any person who's ever used DHT inhibitor, whether it was medical, which is finasteride, pro-scar, or, you know, over-the-counter minoxidil, as soon as you stop, your hair falls out. Yeah. Because now it's not attached to the receptor and it's toxin to the actual follicular receptors in the scalp, right? So we've done research and, again, written articles, and again, this is scary stuff, but, like, guys who are on long-term DHT inhibitors, those are cell toxins. So you are shortening your lifespan using DHT inhibitors. Now, nobody wants to talk about this because, again, there's no real tests to really prove it other than, I'm sure you guys are familiar now with the biological age tests. So if you go to, like, a true diagnostic or a glycanage or, I know there's a couple of other ones out there now and you get those tests done, you can actually look at your telomere factors and we're going to get in deeper as we go down further into this with telomerase extension, which is what thymoline and epithelon do. You know that you're shortening your lifespan by using a DHT inhibitor because it literally is shortening the telomerase factor. Wow. They show that, huh? Oh, yeah. Wow, that's crazy. But, well, they do, but nobody's looking for it. So, like, if somebody says to me, Jay Campbell can't prove that, I can. I just got to go to those tests and I got to pull them out and I got to start looking at those transcription factors. But the smart guys that run those companies, the Ryan Smiths of the world, he can say, yes, you're right. But it hasn't really got out until the forefront. Now, the other thing is, as you guys know this, is there are plenty of people who use DHT inhibitors like finasteride and have no side effects versus other guys who take it for one week and are sexually dysfunctional forever, right? Wow, really? Dude, post-finasteride syndrome, PFS, I've had two friends in my life have killed themselves from PFS. Oh, that's terrible. No, it's horrible, but it's very well-known in the clinical literature that some people who take DHT inhibitors literally have permanent sexual dysfunction. Is that because it just kills those receptors and that's it? Now the DHT can never... Probably. Nobody really knows the answer. I mean, like, all the research on it, nobody knows. It's just one of those drugs. And again, I think because it's a cell toxin that a DHT inhibitor just does a lot of negative things downstream in the human body, right? Like, they give DHT inhibitors to women too. Did you guys know that? I didn't know that. I just found this out in the last couple of years. Women take DHT inhibitors to stop hair loss. It's just... It's a horrible thing. If you're listening to this and you're using these things, don't cold turkey them, especially if you've been... I could get this question a lot if you've been on them for a long time because again, all your hair will fall out. We can... I can give you guys some options or whatever, but make sure you start using an angiogenic effector topical solution. There's many now coming into the market. Ian Mitchell has one now. My company, which we sold last year, Cerecustom, we have a product called Oxanogrow. It's completely out of stock, but the one that I told you guys about that if we want to talk about we can't, it's coming is going to be like the bee's knees when it comes to regrowth, but you want to make sure that you put on an angiogenic enhancer first before you kill a DHT inhibitor so that it does prevent... It increases the health of the scalp and the follicles so that when you stop the DHT inhibitor, when it de-minerizes, it doesn't fall out. Now, Solpalmetto, that's an herb that has been somewhat shown to reduce DHT, but that's different, right? That has a different mechanism. It's totally, but so here's the thing is like, as I always say it like this, to get a little spiritual, like we never want to block anything that God created, right? Like anything that's like a DHT inhibitor system, just like you guys know with AIs, right? You never want to use an aromatase inhibitor because when you block estrogen, you're creating downstream issues, right? So it's like we now know that like with using therapeutic testosterone, you never ever inhibit testosterone. I mean, a estradiol production which creates estrogen because you want the estrogen to fall to your genetic level, right? So like when a guy goes on therapeutic testosterone, you never ever inhibit the estrogen because the estrogen is what confers the protection to the biological systems. Bone mineral, brain health, cardiovascular health, that's what estrogen does, right? So it's like, I always tell people like, if you're going to use therapeutic testosterone, you have to allow your estrogen to just go wherever it's going to go. There's no such thing either, by the way, as high estrogen symptoms. People that think high estrogen symptoms which are quantified as high estrogen symptoms are actually inflammatory responses to too high a body fat and insulin resistance. So when you hear a doctor say, oh, I gave this guy an AI to inhibit his estrogen because he has high E2 symptoms, he doesn't have high estrogen symptoms. He has high symptoms due to inflammation. Interesting. Well, I know low estrogen in men can feel like low testosterone. Exactly. Well, that's what happens when you give a guy an AI when they're on therapeutic testosterone. You push their estrogen signal so low that you cause all sorts of horrible downstream effects which destroys bone mineral density. I mean, I know I just rabbit hole by bringing that up, but it's very similar. DHT inhibition and aromatase inhibition are wrong because you allow those pathways to just be naturally expressed. So it's like even in testosterone, I mean in hair, you don't ever want to inhibit DHT because DHT isn't really the ultimate causation or causal agent of hair loss. I see. It's like putting a Band-Aid on it. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Well, I know you're a big farm of play. Exactly. All right. So let's get back into longevity. So we talked about matzi. You mentioned a couple others. For sure. I remember the ones you named Epithelon. Epithelon and thymolus. Yeah. So let's talk about one of those. Let's talk about the first one, Epithelon. How does that work in the body? What are the results like? What is it? Yeah. So Epithelon is a profound peptide. So I'll just put it this way right now. As soon as you turn 45 and depending on again, you know, how much you're taking care of yourself, you can probably move down to 40. You should be doing two, at a minimum one, but two cycles of Epithelon and thymol in a year. So what they do is, so Epithelon actually works on the telomerase express pathway. So telomerase is essentially the enzyme that allows your telometers to lengthen or to shorten. Right? So as we age, the shorter our telometers get, the less productive they are in actually enhancing telomerase production the faster we age. So Epithelon actually goes to work by enhancing that enzyme of telomerase and improving it. So as we age, we don't have, our telometers are not shortening. They're actually lengthening and they're staying active and they're staying mobile and agile and everything else. So your biological age can actually lower. Exactly. Exactly. So essentially, like if we wanted to get into alchemy and we went really weird right now and stuff like that, the philosopher stone had a way to literally extend or keep telomerase like you were 15 years old forever. So like these alchemists that figured out how to create the philosopher stone were able to actually turn off telomerase expression so that it just kept you at like a 15 year old age. So you live for a thousand years, the Methuselogene. Okay, okay. Interesting. What does it feel like when you take it then? You feel nothing. So essentially, no, I mean, you don't. So I mean, that's the thing is like, it's a good question because a lot of people like they want to feel something. They want to experience something, but you don't feel anything. It's just a subcontinuous injection. Now, thymoline, you want to take it the same time. And by the way, you can take these both in isolation, but we've found now that you want to use them together because they both do very synergistic things. But thymoline enhances the thymus gland and the thymus gland is the immunomodulator effect of the body, right? So the stronger your thymus gland, the more immune you are as you age. Now, what's interesting about that one is I heard from somebody in the space that during the whole COVID pandemic, that they were trying to kind of crack down on thymoline and related peptides. Of course. Because they, because people were finding it, people were finding it to be so effective. I wonder why. Yeah. So, so it's still available? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But, well, okay. So that's a good question. And then we have to get into this. So, oh man, hopefully you're going to get your sponsors in trouble. What do you mean? That's not good. The truth is, is this, the FDA does not want peptides to become mainstream, right? Because if it did, what happens to a big pharma? Right. It replaces a ton of drugs. Exactly. That's as simple as you could possibly say it. I don't have to go any deeper conspiratorial or anything. I don't have to put my tinfoil hat on. That's 100% true. It eliminates a gigantic trillion-dollar profit center. Because again, remember what we talked about in the beginning, peptides and bioregulators address the fundamental root cause. Remember what Chris Rock said, the money is not in healing, it's in the medicine. Right? So they're not going to allow healing to occur. So like the good news is, is like you're listening audience, all of us, people like us, we can use peptides and bioregulators to heal. We don't even have to go to modern medicine. I'm telling you, we probably, I'll probably come back, we'll do a whole show on bioregulators and we can talk about how like it eliminates the need to go to doctors as you age, because you're literally using something that's working the organ system that you don't need to even get tested anymore. You know, why would you want to get your colon looked at with a diagnostic tool that is like horrible and does so many bad things to the body when you can actually use a bioregulator to strengthen your colon as you get older? Right? Same thing with your testee, same thing with your prostate. So all these male health things, same thing with women's health. Interesting. So with the thymoline, would that be effective if let's say you are about your feeling, oh, I'm getting sick and you had some stored on hand and you took it? Would it work like that or is this something you would just want to take? It would, but again, and this is why peptides are so amazing, there's better, right? So there's LL37 and there's VIP, vasointestinal peptide and those are like, and remember I said thymus and alpha one, right? So like, so let's look at them as like healing. How do we do this? Like, so we have longevity or life extension and then we have healing and then we have bio weapon protection. Oh, wow. Right? No, seriously, like, so bio weapon protection is thymus and alpha one, which again is just conveying full body immunity. LL37 is antimicrobial, antifungal, antipathogenic. So I mean, like you inject LL37, nothing's going to harm you, unreal stuff. And then VIP is the one peptide that they use and still are using with like elderly COVID patients because it enhances oxygenation to the blood supply, which as you guys know, if you remember back in 2020, during the beginning of the SCAM, Demic, see how I didn't say it? You guys can edit that if you have to. Listen, it's all going mainstream now. The news is all coming out. People are like, oh, I like. Right, I don't have to say it. Just read the article. It came out. They haven't found out they will. Well, they just came out. They're like, oh, it looks like this might have come out of a lab and I'm like, oh my God. Or the Lancet said yesterday, the Lancet said yesterday that they now admit that natural immunity is best. Yeah, yeah, I do. Convenient, right? Yeah. This is a few billion dollars later. Unreal stuff. Yeah. No, but so, so LL37 is profound. Like if you have any kind of infection. So like, like, you know, you guys have heard this, but when people get sick with whatever COVID is or was, you know, they were taking ivermectin and they were taking levoquine and all these things like, if you had LL37, you wouldn't need any of those. You just inject yourself twice a day for three days and you wouldn't be sick. I mean, that's how powerful it is. And then again, that's the most profound, you know, antimicrobial, antipathogenic, antifungal peptide that we know. But VIP to get back to that. VIP was the peptide that you would, and still do, you would inject if you were comorbid or you had advanced stage COVID because now you can't get oxygen, okay? Because remember at the very beginning when we didn't know what was going on, they were intubating people because they thought it was literally causing some sort of airway issue. But now we realize that it was oxygenation in the heme, in the red blood cells. And that was when it was starving what COVID was causing it. So if you had VIP, you would just inject VIP and literally you can't get COVID because it literally increases the oxygenation in the blood so much. So sadly, again, because docs are, you know, for the most part when it comes to peptides, clueless and not taught anything. And it's not their fault. They're not taught this in med school. It's the same way with hormone optimization, right? They're not taught about hormones. Why would they want to know about hormones? There's no pills to describe. But like that's what they give people now in very advanced like convalescent centers or homes where like they have, you know, elderly with money, they inject them with VIP. And VIP literally will keep them from going into like a, you know, a COVID intubation, you know, loop. Wow. Yeah. So it's profound stuff. But so life extension would be thymolin and epithelon twice a year in two cycles. And there's, you know, again, my book has all of these things laid out. And that's the cool part about my book is like people can just literally read it. Not have to, I mean, not have to read the whole book. But if they want to use a peptide, just scroll right to it. Like in the index, the table of contents, what's the dosage? You know what I mean? Or, you know, they can skip to it obviously in the book and just read the summary or whatever. But thymolin and epithelon should be twice a year if you're 40 to 45 and up forever. That's going to definitely guarantee you live longer. Again, you know, assuming you're not a giant, you know, morbidly obese dumpster fire of a human being, it's going to definitely, it's definitely going to extend your life. Again, through telomerase expression, VIP, LL37 and thymocenalpha, which I call TA1, would be your, you know, keep myself immune and impervious. And then we didn't talk about healing. I know you guys know about healing, but, you know, BPC-157. That one always comes up. Yeah, always comes up. BPC-157, TB500. So BPC-157, again, is body protective compound. That is the improved angiogenesis, which again is to increase red blood cell formation to strengthen and rebuild the tissue. TB500 is the, you know, massive inflammation suppressor. So together that, you know, they work wonders. We haven't talked about, we should for just a second, is GHKCU copper peptide. So again, another ShamWow peptide. That peptide can be used for everything, hair regrowth. That's the number one peptide for hair regrowth. Okay. 3% grade of GHKCU simulates the copper antigens into the scalp and also again into the red blood cells and increases red blood cell formation. But GHKCU too, topically, like wound. If you have a strong enough GHKCU formulation, any of us took a knife and we just like that. If you put that on there in five days, it would be completely sealed. Literally in five days. You're talking about copper too. We found out that that affects the color of your hair as well. Yeah. So GHKCU, and I know this from my company, from our products, in raw material form, copper peptide at a 3% grade or higher is purple. It's a crystalline purple. So when you put it on like as a skin formulation, it's like a royal blue or a light blue. And then eventually, for the first 10 to 15 minutes before it completely absorbs, your skin is kind of like a blue glow. And then the body just absorbs it. So what do you think is going to happen then? Because there's a couple of peptides now that are making mainstream news. Some aglutide is one of them. Interzapetide. Yeah, and these are what they call GLP1. GLP1 agonists. Yeah, and they're becoming patented. Massive. Yes. So do you think that's the direction then that they're going to go? Because I don't know if they can't stop it. The genie's out of the bottle. Right. Right. The genie's definitely out of the bottle. Probably, I mean, somebody that you guys know who doesn't want me to mention his name on the show told me about a month ago that he doesn't see peptides going away now. So let me take a step back. So 10 years ago, all of us fringe whenever we were in the peptide space, we're always looking over our shoulder, sneaking around. Because peptides don't tell anybody about them. And now here we are. Research chemical companies are blowing up. Peptides are blowing up. Like you said, it's literally mainstream consciousness. There's two reasons for mainstream consciousness with peptides right now. And I literally just, it's funny you mentioned that because there was a huge article that was just in, I think it was the New York Times about Terzapetide. It's the number one weight loss drug of all time. Yeah, they're running out of stock. Yeah, they can't keep it in stock. So this is two reasons for mainstream consciousness and the genes out of the bottle on both. But number one, 70% of adults over the age of 40 in the West are obese by the BMI. Huge market. 70%. Huge market. And then number two, the people who have quote unquote been harmed by whatever you want to call what has happened to them in the last three years are looking for alternative forms of healing and therapy. Right? So peptides represent that. Let's pause there for a second. So just to add to that, the public trust in the establishment medical community has fallen to all time lows. So if you look at the polls and people and ask people, do you trust the federal government medical advisors? Do you trust doctors? Do you trust pharmaceutical companies? This is all post pandemic. It has fallen to all time lows. So you're saying that now we don't trust them combined with these GLP-1 agonists that are actually showing weight loss and the fact that there's so many obese. Those two things combined now is what it may protect this market? 100%. I mean, literally, like I said, the person that I just talked to is a very high level person in this market. And he told me, he gave them away, it's a he. Oops. Yeah. That it's not, they're not going away. But to what you guys just said, the FDA, Big Pharma will attempt to patent as many of them as they can. But see, here's a problem to that. Like with like Terzapetide, like the compound pharmacies have already, you know, broke that chain because all you have to do is add B6 or, you know, some mineral or, you know, L-C-D-L-Carnitine or whatever to the formulation. And now it's not a patented anymore, right? Interesting. And that's what's happening with Terzapetide. And that's what, not with stymagelotide, but that's what's happening with Terzapetide. Now I've used both. I want to give you guys my experience with both of them. I'm actually writing, my next book is in process. It's going to be called 30 Days to Shreds. And it's literally, I'll send it to you guys. You guys are going to love it. But it's going to be like, how do I get the leanest, most fat loss, theoretically and physically possible in 30 days, regardless of my fitness level or my training level. And this is using all these different peptides and mats, right? So this is something that four years ago, I could not have written this book because these agents were not available. But if you use these agents in these clinically precise dosages, here's the research, here's the studies. And by the way, I have 10 guys that have been like my guinea pig's trial. You can't even believe it. I got guys in their 60s. I mean, you can literally lose with Terzapetide. And we didn't talk about test-offencing. We should talk about test-offencing. But all these other peptides that are out there now, more body fat in 30 days than at any point in time in human history, at least in this version of human history, right, pre-Atlantis. So it's like, what's coming is, back to your original question is, they can't control it. The genie is out of the bottle. They're just going to try to monetize it. So how do we monetize it by patenting it? It's always patented, right? It's the lawyers, right? It's how can we get paid and how can we ensure that they come in? They might have to change it the way they patent things then. Well, I mean, probably, and that's probably what will happen. And the other thing is like, and this is where I wanted to talk a little bit about, the research chemical company thing is like, the research chemical companies, which all along, and I know a lot of the owners and stuff in that business, like have always been the ones that are kind of like the most worried, the ones looking over their shoulder, right? Because again, they're selling stuff that says not for human consumption. You must tell me if you buy this, you agree to buy this, you're using it on your laboratory animal and all these other disclosures, right? Which again, legally protects them. It legally indemnifies them. It also legally indemnifies me as the affiliate salesperson or anybody that promotes them. But it's always been this kind of like, kind of under the rub where the medical side of things says, oh my God, those are guys brewing shit up in their basement. You know what I mean? Like, why would you use that? But as you guys know, as Big Pharma slash the FDA has cut back or cut down or cracked down on the peptide companies, the research chemical companies have moved to the forefront now. That's where everybody's getting them. Most doctors are sending their patients there, which is nuts. But it's true, right? Because they know, again, there's very little harm. They're very well tolerated. And again, they have profound healing, fat loss, muscle building, immunity enhancing, all these different things. So it's kind of an interesting place where we find ourselves right now. But I absolutely agree with what you said. We are in a place now where Big Pharma has to figure out how they're going to profit off because they're not going away. And we buy regulators now about to also come into the forefront in the next year to two years in the United States. I mean, you guys, I'm not joking. They actually make peptides look like child's play. That's crazy. That's what they do, right? So we really are in the forefront of what I would call a golden age or a new earth in healing. I won't call it medicine anymore because you're right. I don't know what even medicine is anymore. I mean, nobody trusts their doctor. You know what I mean? But they do trust smart people like you guys, like me, like people that are out there talking about these things and are obviously living social proof of their use, right? So like that's kind of why this is like so blown up in just mainstream consciousness. I'm serious. Like when I put this book out, I didn't really want to put this book out because I put a peptides course out two years ago and it's done really, really well. But, you know, my inner circle team was like, no, dude, you got to put the book out because like people want to read a book about this stuff. And I'm like, but it's just old. I'm bored of this. Like, you know, the people that know about peptides already know about peptides, but the book has completely blown up in the last two months. Are you seeing an increase in physicians kind of coming into the space? It's insane. I have so many, that's like all my, that's who buys the course now is docs. Yeah. They're like, we can't get this information anywhere. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's just, it's really weird though, because like if you, you know, you guys talk to seeds, you know, seeds was very instrumental in building the peptides society. And there were a couple other regulating bodies in clinical space and they all got blown up when COVID came. They all just went out, you know, through attrition or because, you know, you know, everything shifted as far as in medicine and stuff like that. But like all those places are gone now. TaylorMade, which was the biggest compounder that was providing all of the peptides to them to also got in trouble by the FDA, which is another story, not worthy of this podcast probably, but like just it all went away. It disappeared. I mean, I literally went to seeds as peptide conference in 2018 in August and there was like 1600 doctors from the United States that were there. It was huge. Oh, wow. My business partner and I were both there and two years later, the whole thing was disbanded, right? Now, obviously COVID, you know, and the whole thing that happened in 2020, you know, played a part in a role in it. But now here we are back. And I think what you said, Sal, that's where we're at, right? Like the medical establishment is at an all time low. People are done. They're just like, where do we find alternative information? How can we not go to my PPO or my HMO doctor? Right? Like that's kind of where we are. And so I think the psychological aspect is how can I heal and how can I become proactive? How can I take ownership of that? Now, I do want to say that I still very strongly view these as supplemental to lifestyle change, diet, exercise sleep. 100%. And I'm also reading articles that more people are interested in things like exercise and diet than ever before, probably as a result of the stuff that we just talked about. In fact, I just read an article that big box gyms now are starting to shrink there. And I was going to bring this up on another podcast. They're shrinking their cardio areas and expanding their strength training areas because they're finding an article about it. Yeah, because they're finding that that's the new, that's where people are going. And we all know that strength is shifted. The benefits of strength training for the average person just outweigh anything else. Well, I'm glad you brought that up. And I want to talk about that. And I'm very, very outspoken about this. And I say this in the very beginning of the book. And I have a really awesome, if you guys don't mind me giving out, there's a link. It's free landing page. It's the 10 mistakes most people make when they start therapeutic peptides. It's just, I mean, if you guys can edit it or whatever, it's just the peptidescourse.com forward slash 10 mistakes. I highly recommend anyone go there. That's number one. They're not magic bullets. Nothing is going to give you anything if you don't have your lifestyle about it. If you're not living insulin controlled, right? If you're not, you know, training with weights, doing cardiovascular, hopefully a combination. You know, you're getting six to eight hours of deep sleep every night. I mean, all that stuff is always the most important thing. None of these things are going to do anything for anybody who's not first doing that. And it's important for the listening audience. And I know you guys have pretty advanced listening audience, but it's important for the listening audience to know that like, look, if you're not taking care of yourself, peptides aren't going to do jack shit for you. I mean, it's literally that simple. I mean, sure, the healing peptides, you know, can help you heal faster, right? But you're not going to get like a growth hormone inducing peptide, you know, or a MOTC or, you know, even any of the life extending like epithelon or thymolin. And we didn't even talk about pineal on the one that increases the size of your pineal gland. Who opens that? Really? Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a bioregulator. And that's like a game changer. Oh, that's well. Something. Yeah. I mean, I probably should have gotten to do a whole another episode. But we're going to do a whole another episode. Just some bioregulars. I can, in this conversation, this will be one of at least two or three episodes that we're going to, you know, for sure. I can't help, but, you know, after hanging out with Dr. Seeds, now hanging out with you. And what I hear is like, I want to take all of these. So do you do this in your book, Jay? Do you lay out like, because you've mentioned already, oh, you should take this for two, two times out of the year. Like, like what is like, if all of them are so beneficial, I can't imagine taking all of them at once to be very unrealistic, to be injecting that much stuff all the time. Is there like what you would call like an ideal kind of, you know? First off, I got to give you that one, because that's the best question that anybody's ever had. I'm going to destroy my microphone. So that is critically important. So, yes, you can combine. And by the way, like big influencers, this is what they ask me. Like Chris, Chris Gaffin is a really good friend of mine, right? And he's always, yeah, of course. And he's always asking me, he's like, you know, Jay, I love your stuff, but why aren't you talking to me about stacking? And I'm like, Chris, because like stacking is something that you think about the rest of them don't, but he was right. To give him credit. Shout out to you, man. If you listen to this, the thing is, is that we have to focus as the end user on like what is most important to us, right? So if we're hurt, are we going to be doing healing and fat loss at the same time? Absolutely not. We're going to be focused on healing, and then we're going to think about that after, right? So it's like, it comes down to the end user. Are there things, are there times where you can do, you know, a fat loss stack and a healing stack together? Probably not. Can you do a healing stack and a life extension stack together? That makes sense, right. Can you do a muscle gain with a healing stack at the same time? Absolutely, right? Because you need higher carbohydrates, more water, more food, you know, rebuild and stuff like that, soft tissue injuries and stuff. Yes. So there are definitely times where you can do like one stack for one specific thing combined with, you know, maybe an ancillary thing like healing and muscle gain or something like that. But for the most part, people should focus on, and again, it's an amazing question. And yes, it is covered in the book, but people should focus on one specific thing that is their primary directive at that moment, right? So for aging people though, twice a year for sure, at Pinalon and Pinalon, I mean, Thymiland for life extension, for to extend the telomeres, right? So that's without question, you're going to do that twice a year. If you're, you know, somebody, again, most people, not probably your listening audience, but most people in America have a weight problem or have obesity issue or insulin resistance. So, you know, they're going to probably be on fat loss peptides, you know, half the year. You know what I'm saying? You know, to constantly be dealing with the battle of the bulge or whatever. So it really just comes down to like what your specific priority is, focusing on that priority and then moving from one to the other. But there are times when you can do a combination of those. That just sounds like you're working with the way the body adapts. Exactly. It would be like trying to gain maximum endurance and maximum strength at the same time and you end up getting little of, you know, almost nothing because they kind of don't work together very well. Yeah, 100%. I know I mentioned it. I'll just real quick before we end. Like Tessofensine is a, it's not technically a peptide, you know, it's like we're getting into that conversation where we're talking about small molecules, but they're classified in the peptide realm. Well, Tessofensine is a, man, I don't know how to even print out. I mean, I'm on it right now. I mean, it's the most amazing oral peptide that you could take, but it enhances brain-derived natropic factors. Oh, sure. Like through the roof. So you're like so fired up, focused in flow state. Like if you're writing or you guys are producing content, you guys want to be on that. It's amazing. It's a capsule, one a day. You can take a... Is that similar to dihexa? Because that's what I just started taking. Oh dude, this blows dihexa. Really? Because I love dihexa. There is nothing in the Neutrope. We didn't even talk about the Neutrope peptide, so if you guys want, we can. That's a whole other video. So yeah. The better question is, we do have to be back because we might just have to do this. Yeah. I mean, I don't fly out until 7 a.m. tomorrow. All right. So we might have to break in just a minute and then we'll come back. Yeah, no, I'm happy to. But so Teso is a 5, I always screw this up. It's 0.50. So it's like 50 micrograms or 25 micrograms. I take 50. Some people, it's so stimulating that they can take only half that dose. So the smarter research chemical companies out there now are making half of those doses. But again, it's a BDNF stimulator. It massively, you know, with increasing BDNF enhances well-being, and then you guys not kidding you, like the longer you take it, it becomes a metabolic encoupler. So it shreds you. Oh, wow. So it's like unreal. Now, I've had people, I've never had a single person who's taken it like complain of it, but there are people that are very sensitive to it and they're like, dude, it's the most amazing thing I've ever taken in my life that I literally can't sleep at night. Those were the people that were taking 50. And so now that a lot of the research chemical companies have half the dose, none of those people have problems. I got a little bit of that from Dihexa and CMAX where I couldn't sleep. So how much do you take of Dihexa? Because I've taken 80 milligrams of Dihexa and I literally don't even. Oh, it's got to be, I think it's 30 milligrams, if I'm not mistaken. I think 30 milligrams. See, I'm having experience, he's having with Dihexa. I've been telling you guys that since we've been keeping you up. I get nothing. I don't feel, oh, you don't feel anything. Well, so I, and I've talked about this before. And again, I don't want to waste this if we need to edit this into another episode, but like I compare all Neutropic peptides to Medaffinil, right? So it's like. So that's your gold standard. Exactly. Medaffinil is the gold standard. And for me, I don't need a lot. I've written three books using Medaffinil at 50 milligrams, right? Like I used to take 100 milligrams and then, you know, you get the headaches and, you know, hydrate enough and blah, blah, blah and whatever. But like when I use, when I'm really deep in writing, I would use Medaffinil and none of the Neutropic peptides until this. And by the way, Tessa Fencey is not considered a Neutropic peptide. It's considered a fat loss agent, right? But because the BDNF is so high, everyone who uses it is like, man, oh my God. Wow, cool. Now I do want to just add this and then we're done. I used it for eight months and this is in the clinical literature on it. It doesn't have any receptor attenuation and you can cold turkey it. Oh, wow. So like I was like, this is so unbelievable. I'm going to go off this and I'm going to like crave it. And I went off of a cold turkey and nothing. My wife is also gone off of a cold turkey and nothing. And again, I've talked to hundreds of people who have gone off of cold turkey and nothing. It is a revolutionary medication. Interesting. Jay, this has been a lot of fun. Yeah. Thanks, guys. I'm sure to go out more questions. We'll see. I'm not ahead of you on the show. No, no. We're going to put this back for sure. Thank you. Awesome, for sure. Today, we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because of the form and technique.