 Dicutes for my live audience with UFC superstar Padi Ribadi on the 7th January in Liverpool are now available on Skiddle. Padi will be doing his first live audience and what a night we have planned. We have a meeting greet and photo opportunity with Padi. You also can get to ask Padi some questions. We've also got special guests appearing. This is going to be a night not to be missed and what a way to start off the new year. See you all soon. Get yourself home lads. You ain't going to know much for these boys. The first line to the jury was a prosecutor in barrister. Put my book up to the jury. This man even writes about his adventures, you know what I mean? He does TV shows about his adventures. That was the first line, the first day of the crown call. A lot of people will never get it, unless you're involved in it, a lot of people will never get it. To this day, I'll still get slagged off, you know, doing talks like this. As soon as you think he is, you shouldn't give him publicity. I've just done the documentary for Italia 90. You get comments, people, you know, I read the comments. So why are you giving these people the time of day and you know, you shouldn't give them any airtime, you know what I mean? I'm Boomer on, and today's guest we've got former football hooligan Gary Clark. Pleist to meet you. How are you guys? Well, not bad James, you're not going bad. Yeah, thank you. First and foremost, thanks for coming on the show. No problem mate, no problem mate. You're one of not-on-forrest's top boys. Used to be. Used to be. Used to be, back in the day. Yeah. I'll call it top boy, but possibly in the top 10. You know everyone is real. You know a few of the boys that's been on this show. Yeah. But before we get into all the nitty gritty, I'll always go back to the start of my guests. Where you grew up and how it all began. Well, I grew up in a city in Ottingham in Slenton. In Old Terry South, some cobbled streets. Dad's from Cambridge, mum's from Slenton. I think he met her on a night out in Nottingham. Eventually decided to move up this way from Cambridge. Had me. Then he obviously wanted a better life and we moved out into the suburbs into a nicer state just to get out of the inner city and had my sister then. Went to a school in Clifton, big council estate south of the city. That was it really. My dad was a lorry driver. Mum worked at Portfarm's local factory. Long hours. Money was tight. Strunging to bring two kids up on the road. As it was back in the 60s, early 70s. Obviously went to a primary school in Clifton. Straight into the football team and fell in love with football. How were you at school Gary? Obviously you had the violence later on in your years, but were you violent as a kid? Not really. I think I got sort of went that way because I went to the big school on the council estate up in Clifton and they used to call us the Silver Swin boys. Because we were from a private stage down the road and they didn't like it sort of thing. I always say we was good at football and I was never top of the class at school. I was never bottom of the class but I was middle of the road but we loved our sport. We had a good football team at school and the bully boys in the bottom form didn't like it. They used to pick on us, especially because we come from a private state. So I ended up scrapping half the time after school in the woods. There used to be a big set of woods behind the school and the call we had to go in the woods and have a fight in front of 400 school people. I think that's why I turned my life into... I want to say it was odd but I could handle myself and suck up for myself. That's the way it went. When did your love for us come about? I'll be honest with you, start off with. My first team was Leeds United at school. Forrest was in the old second division struggling. Just got relegated so I think it was. The top teams at the time were Leeds in Liverpool and Arsenal. I just liked the Leeds kit, the old white kit. I saw Leeds at school and a couple of Leeds at school. I was always a Forrest fan. My first football match ever was Forrest against Norwich. My dad took me. It was difficult because my dad was from Cambridge. He liked the England teams. Norwich was top of the league in the old second division. He just got relegated and he took me to Forrest in Norwich. I think it was about nine. Norwich pumped Forrest 3-1 that day. I fell in love with the game then. I made my first football match ever. I was begging him to set me to a Leeds game and he took me to a couple of Leeds games. My granddad took me to Notts County in Leeds up Leeds, Leeds Cup. Notts County beaten 1-0. I will never forget that. It was 1975. I went to a couple of Leeds games. I went to Leeds and Derby at Derby. I remember going to Leeds and Ipswitch in the Cup replay. Quarter final at Leicester. I think they played about four games. Dad took me there. I managed to drag him there. He didn't take me to many Forrest games. Forrest got promoted in 1976. One of my dad's mates had a season ticket. He got sent to prison fighting. He wasn't a violent lad. He ended up scuffling a poor man. He was doing six months in prison. He said he would get you lad that season. Me and the season ticket for the rest of the season. It was a year we won the league back in the first division. I watched Forrest play Liverpool in front of 47,000. Everton a couple of days later at Christmas in front of 44,000 fell in love. Dad took me all the league cup finals. 77, 78, 79, 98. He took me all at Wembley. I got the bug then. Was that much violence in the 70s? I noticed it. You could tell there was a lot of trouble at Forrest. Probably early to mid late 70s. I used to have a firm called the Forrest Mad Squad. I used to stand on the cop. The away fans used to be in the East End. You were right on the side. All you could see was everything going. I believed riots everywhere. Forrest had a handy firm back in them days as well. I remember going to the league cup final. 98 there. We were walking down Wembley way. 200 lads in green flying jackets were running past chasing a lot of the walls. I was only a kid. He was thinking, what's going off here? Forrest in the second division. When did Brian Clough take over? 1975. 1975 was in the old second division. I think it was about the sixth bottom when he took over. I didn't think he won for the first eight games. It was a man doing that to come into a club who was floating about the second division to then being in cup finals Europe. One in the European Cup twice. You must have been a kid then in the late 70s. Was there any feeling that this man was going to be one of the greatest managers in Britain? He did well at Derby didn't he? I think he won the league at Derby and then he took him to the semi-final of the European Cup. I think they only lost to Geventus. I think the ref rigged that game anyway. He was stuck to that already. I don't know if he went to Brighton. He went to Leeds. He took over Dom Reavey didn't he? He got sacked 44 days because the Leeds players so much used to didn't like him. Cloughies told him how it was. I think the first day for all the medals in the bin says that counts for nothing now. It was player power. I got rid of him. I think he ended up Brighton then and then Forrest took a gamble and he came to Forrest. I don't know if he won the English Cup in 1976 and then it shows the rest of his history in it. See the violence between the second division and the first division and see when you get promoted there's a violence to become more extreme because obviously it's bigger crowds, bigger games. There's more to kind of lose. It wasn't them days. It wasn't them days, bigger crowds and there was no cameras, there was no segregation really. It makes one to it in them days. It's not like in the Premier League now there's more violence happening in the lower leagues these days. But back in them days you get to the old First Division bigger mobs, bigger firms and there's probably more violence in them days. There's a kid watching it thinking what's going on here. What made you join the casual scene? By accident really because I used to go to I still went to a couple of leagues games when I was at school 15, 98 and 1981 and I remember going to a game at Knox County, first game of the season and I bumped into these lads in town and the force from Leeds anyway they gave us a couple of slaps me and my mates, I think it was all from Nottingham at the time got a couple of slaps around the year old and that and kicked up the arse and the police come and anyway so that was the first time I discovered drinking so I was going out and just left school then I was still at school then, 15 so a few weeks later I just left school so I started going in Nottingham city centre and I kept bumping into the same lads that gave me a slap they all come over to me and says here's that Leeds fan I thought you're from Leeds, I said no I'm from Nottingham and anyway I kept bumping into him Nottingham every week then and there was a late bar at the time called Arvis Bar in West Bridgeford I used to get there on Sunday night as a kid 16 and there was always in there anyway I got friendly with him and there was always trying to sway me to come away with him to the forest you know, come where's lot and most of the time I went to a few Leeds games and all they did were wreck things, smash things up you know, there was that many of them the forest firm at the time was all in jail because Amiddasworth got killed at Borough so a lot of the main lads were locked up at the time and they weren't that many of them but they were casual and I was casual, I was casual less here at school and that's what I liked about the football scene I was noticing different firms different areas, different cities and we were doing different stuff you know, I liked the way everyone dressed so I really got into it and anyway they got me one and one way they said we're going to Arsenal the fans are going to Arsenal with us I said go on then, I relented I said go on, I'll go to Arsenal with you I went on service train I think there's 53 of us went on the service train back in the day the old Irish stadium the one many forest went away in them days I think it was 1982 and they used to have ticket tape in the middle of the old clock end and to get to your end you had to walk through the Arsenal fans the old bill were scorched at your end but we just got everybody I was covered in Salava I managed to get to the forest section I was just covered in spit and after the game we went back to King's Cross Arsenal landed at King's Cross and it was running right all over the shop it was back and forth anyway the police got fed up with it and they said right, you've got to stop here on this corner I think there's about 35, the rest of it the old lot of it was 35 it was put in court and I said I can't make it I'm already in court in Leicester that day so the forest lot I had I had too many buses to go to court in Oldburn and they set a trial that's Elephanton Castle, IRA Court two day trial so we all had to go down for a two day trial down at Elephanton Castle I was more excited about the night out in London I think I've got £80 fine trying to send our main lads to prison but I think they've come away about £150 but back in 1982 it's quite a bit of a lot of money you know what I mean so I reckon that's when I got the bug we were going away with forest casuals sort of doing sentences then back in the 80s oh yeah, there's a lot of our lads locked up at the time one of our lads got four and a half years a lot of our lads got locked up at middle six months, a lot of the borough lads got locked up for a fray so it was a big prison in them days I thought it started in the 90s when people started getting big sentences one of my gun mates got four and a half years back in the day how was the fight set up then back in the day in the 80s? it was spontaneous really you'd say right we're going away again it's either service train or vans or cars meet the nearest pub to the train station and that was a crack we were mobbed at the train station wherever you went you were going to get it in another city because everyone had them off didn't they what was the casual scene like then? was it Fila? was that Peri? it started off with Sleidge and the jumpers I mean Liverpool started it didn't they in the late 70s Moe jumpers, Wedge here coming back we all then the sports gear Sleidge and the jumpers Pringles came in Slyline and Scots and it was Fila Lacoste Forest got back in Europe and we came back with new wardrobe because in them days you didn't have much money you know what I mean so see when forest are running everything then do you then become a target? there's forest fans become a target because they are running or is it just a case that it's all the same? no because they're a big club because we're winning stuff we're a big team to get to other cities forest are in town so everyone turned out for you cause most problems really being successful who was the toughest form you came up against? Westam Westam we had a doubt especially going down their place Westam Man United were good cause they had the numbers Arsenal were pretty good back in the day as well a lot of Portsmouth everybody had a little mob Middlesbrough were good Birmingham probably the best in the midlands Forest were good they rolled around but even less they had a decent baby squad I get Derby Derby always have a fight every hill I've had on they've always said Middlesbrough it was a dodgy place to go the old Areson Park I could have gone there at night it was an area place to go they travelled everywhere as well tough city tough town did you ever go away to Europe with a forest? yeah yeah I missed the European Cup day so I went to school and my dad never took me cause he's from Cambridge I went to a couple of the home games obviously but when we got back in the way for Cup 1983 started travelling out of my home started going away with him started getting a few scrapes and locked up abroad what was it like being locked up abroad? I got locked up twice in one bruise no was it underlack underlack got locked up twice there and police said next day Immigant got deported from Bruges a lot of us Frog Mart on to the ferry at Zebrugger spent two days in the Mr Gains spent two days in a police in Bruges you know what I mean then he didn't really bother he was just all part of the fun now again you go to places like Poland Ukraine like they're all MMA fighters they're all tough bastards did you ever see any professional fighters back then or was it just a case of free for all? no no I must admit I've travelled with England from the mid 80s and they weren't really anybody to touch it it was probably the Germans the Germans always big lads Germany 88 they had to hold their own sort of thing but they didn't notice the poles probably early 90s went to Poland twice three times I missed one game because I got stuck in Germany but the poles you could tell the train you could tell they were fighters back in the day England they'd give a tooosh it's all right being like that we could have it up there as well why do you think England are always at the forefront every World Cup Euros it's always England causing it do you think that's just ingrained into the football organisms I think it stems from the 60s and 70s there's nobody back in the 70s it's gone full circle now into England calls it not bothered are they everyone's packed it in it's mainly fans that follow England now back in the day when I went in the early 80s you'd take four or five hundred fans away and they would all be lads the old Yugoslav in 87 and it took four or five hundred we won four one and then we could score all them goals it was just pure boys no one was scared you know what I mean dodgy places to go to Turkey what's the difference fighting for England to fighting for forests I think kind of definite buzz I used to enjoy going to England back in the day but it was just pure lads but no I don't like it I haven't been to England away games since Munich in 2001 I don't like going away now with England because there's so many cheer throwers and so many idiots that call some for no reason back in the day it was boys used to have a drink and if someone came it came but these days it's a bit more bit more mindless mindless violence I don't like things like that these days I don't like violence anyway 20 years I've got involved in football trouble now what was it was late for you every week did you start forgetting about the football and just concentrating on the fighting or was it the do both eventually yeah I think mid 80s the football went out the window and it was I was a football fan I've always been a football fan but once you got into the casual scene and your mindset started going that way gang culture and that it was like are we going to get something this Saturday you plan your day all week you know what I mean what we're going to do, where we're going to meet how we're getting there we're going to meet like minded lads that won't have a go at you know what I mean and that took over the football then but like you say I'm a football fan I've always been a football fan football what people think you know what I mean Robert Millwell why they always high up the ladder with respect very high up with their respect in the 70s and 80s they always respect I think they've got a conveyor belt just keeps rolling them off that many get locked in prison get banned I think they've just got like a factory machine just keeps rolling them off I've never seen so many of them and they all come from the estate you know what I mean it's a dodgy place to go Who's the tough man you had respect for with the firms I remember meeting Bill Gardner when he came off the train one year about 50, 60 of him, ICF about 90, 82 Bill walked down the road I remember the police saying we were all met right near the train station there should be a few pubs at the same station King John at the time I remember the police coming in to get off because the ICF were on the way I think the police had picked them up at Leicester you'd better get yourself home anyway they come off the train and Bill come down the front we're about 50 behind him he had this long duffle coat on curly blonde there and I was about 70 and I thought shit look at that though Did you get that a lot because we spoke about big bars earlier before we started then he's that big unit he's massive kickboxing world champion seeing you going forward towards people and you think fuck I'm in for it hear that he's got to get the head down he makes back you up you know what I mean you're in the shot aren't you how was big ball because I've had him on a podcast absolute gentleman to hear the backstory of it being homeless as a kid and then kind of bare knuckle fighting from a very young age that it's sad to see as well but the respect he's got from everybody all around the UK that is unbelievable that let's see when you fought for England as well was everything put to the side not in the early days in the 80s I can remember West Ham used to have it with Man United quite a lot of away games you know what I mean West Ham kept themselves to themselves you know but like Forreston that with Mix we weren't really bothered you know what I mean and a lot of the lower teams and lower clubs that they would wall mix but there was a top firms that didn't want to mix like West Ham you know what I mean they kept themselves to them and be honest with you they didn't always turn out but when they did turn out they kept themselves to themselves but like Bill's a legend you know who Bill was you know when he was at school you know what I mean he's been out and throughout the country you know what I mean and he was a hard man you know he's a very hard man you know what I mean not many people could touch him so you've got someone like that leading you I wouldn't say he was a leader but actually he was a leader he was just an influence at West Ham you know what I mean and everyone looked up to him he's a gentleman like you say he's a lovely bloke I went to his first book launch and I think there's only three or four of us that went on the old barking road at West Ham Social Club obviously got invited by Baz and Cass and a couple of people told me not to go they said you know it's a dodgy place to go like you know what I mean I was treated like everyone treated me brilliant you know what I mean I think me and Andy went Nichols me mate Harry went and I think there's three or four of us and it was four, five hundred ICF an old school ICF you know what I mean everyone was good as gold and you were taught not to go and adjusting yeah a lot of people told me you know watch yourself I won't go down there you know you could get filled in whatever you know what I mean but honestly everyone was good as gold Andy Nichols he's a funny bastard but how do you end up pals with Andy he's Evan, he's all the other boys are yeah I met a lot of us met through the books you know cos first met Cass through the books he asked me to do Teres Legends 2003 by the court case going on at the time and so I couldn't do it so I'm still you know I've got this court case going on doing it doing that book you know it could go against the court so I recommended one of my mates do it and he did it and then he contacted me again he was doing the follow called Top Boys so I said you know I'd already done some prison for this thing that came out and that was me I thought I know where I'm getting involved anymore that was me I decided to pack it up you know so young man came out anyway I think it was 39 at the time and I thought you know carry on doing what I'm doing I looked with bigger prison sentences it's time to take me life around so I said to Cass I'll do Top Boys book and I'm not sure if Andy did might have done Teres Legends but obviously Cass got us all on the book scene and then we would do book launches and I got to meet these guys at book launches and we were all the same just support different clubs and we all got on with each other you know same interests and we all become friends you know what I mean Do you think you could have been friends with these other guys in your 20s now it would have been more difficult a lads didn't like you bring in other lads from other cities into your into your like back garden you know what I mean and it's very rare that happened in the 80s you know I had a couple of mates from Sheffield they used to come over and they used to go England matches with them and they was alright you know I mean but if you brought someone in I don't know he wouldn't have happened back in the 80s because somebody would have got upset and they would have been you know what I mean and then the England scene got bigger in the 90s I think with more lads going we got more friendly with each other and then back end of the 90s early 2000s everyone started mixing more you know what I mean so when the cameras and that started coming about did it become more harder to organise oh yeah of course it did the cameras killed it didn't it you know what I mean the police got all of that the fascist started that didn't you but then the mobile cameras come in mobile phones come in we want to see CCTVs all over country in Europe in it you know what I mean you couldn't do it you'd get a knock on the door six months later you know it's wasted time you know what I mean See me you start getting the jail and stuff do you just want to come straight back out and straight back involved or do you start revaluating things Well I got postal detention centre in the early 80s 84 you know at the Vard I never go back in but they didn't deter me I didn't deter me I got even more into it but when I got that prison centre 2004 because I was offered to do a book before that and I refused it and I refused it because I was still active and I thought once you do a book you can't get back involved you're a mug if you do a book and then you get involved again you know and I got in trouble 2006 and then I was in the pub at the wrong time the pub went up and obviously because I'm there three months later my door went in and that's places I'm weak in Crown Court and I thought I got found guilty at the end of it I was looking at three years in prison and the first line in them days back in 2006 they could actually incriminate you and the first line to the jury was Prosecutor Barryster put me a book up to the jury this man even writes about his adventures you know what I mean he does TV shows about his adventures that was the first line the first day of the Crown Court you know what I mean and luckily as the week went on the trial went on Prosecutor Barryster and the jury saw sense and we got not guilty on the Friday and I packed up being involved in that two or three years before but it was a bit of a setup which are longer sentence four only four months you know what I mean four months is enough you know what I mean a lot of my mates have done three, four or five years what was that for there's a bigger fray against Everton two thousand sorry in 1985 a lot of the lads got I think they got 38 years between them two of my mates got five and a half and the Middlesbury in 1988 to 1981 one of my mates got four and a half a lot of the lads got I remember the big Everton fray I think they won't that many of them and they got 38 years between them made all the national press all of the national headlines and newspapers that's a big deterrent in it when you get paid for that and often they didn't throw a punch what you're thinking then if you do a few months that do you think that's kind of like a not that medal of honour but it's like you've learned your stripes when you come back out you've got a bigger swagger yeah back in the day in the 80s when you were very young when you were teens and early 20s I would agree with that you know what I mean but when you're getting on a bit like you say I got prison at 39 it's a bit embarrassing isn't it what you're doing in Dornham jail at 39 I should be there it's a day in Thailand so you think to yourself now that's when I decided to write my book when I sat in that cell what's your hardest fate that's a bit many, that many who did you enjoy coming up against Birmingham was always a difficult one to go to I remember the FA Cup at Birmingham I think it was about 87 that was May and that made the national press I think it was 93 arrested when we were landing there at 11 o'clock in the morning when we were going home at 6 o'clock at night it was just non-stop all day you didn't get a minute so that was a difficult day who was the toughest what was the ground you liked to go to the most I did like the most dangerous ones to be honest with you the biggest boss Westam, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Man United I think the most difficult places to go gave you the bigger boss when he was at it you know what I mean Drannin and Rush How many was involved with Forrest? When I first started going because everyone was locked up for Middlesbrough they won't a lot probably 50 to 100 but when we got it together 83, 83, 84, 85 it rose to 300, 400 late 80s, Forrest was big on the England scene early 90s I think in the mid 90s we rose to the top of the tree I remember reading a police report the inspector of the police in the games says Forrest is number one in Britain at the time we took 400 places like Chelsea Chelsea was the tough place to go back in the day everyone was tough everyone had a little mob it was no easy if you underestimated anyone that's when you got turned over what about for the international scene was there any obviously you mentioned Germany before don't you fuck media tough? I won't say they were tough there was dodgy places to go like Turkey you'd go there not looking for it but the locals didn't like you they didn't like the way you behaved getting drunk you could upset them so easy next minute you got all the locals on your back but they were coming in knives people getting caught up dodgy places what about Italy? in Italy they carry the knives they don't fight you they stab you that's the difference what about Cass? I know your friends with Cass as well yeah good mates with Cass I've been very good friends with Cass I've done a lot of stuff with him over the years books events and stuff I put a few events on early 2000s with Cass we had Danny Dyer where I lived we had Howard Marks Carlton Leach we put a few events on see when the film is like a football factory Green Street is that in hands that sort of reputation has been a football hill again? it probably did I would say it did I've been in a couple of Cass's stuff in the films and stuff then again it probably gives the wrong impression to young lads you know what I mean but then again it's not these days it's a British subculture they're always going to film stuff about it everyone finds it interesting it's the same with the modern rockers and the Terry boys back in the 50s there's always going to be people who want to film make films about stuff like that there's no difference it's been happening for 70 years in British culture why do you think it's so popular why do you think people love these sort of chats as well that the football violence why do you think it's popular? I think because people find it interesting because normal joe blogs they find it interesting because they haven't been part of it and they won't have the bottles to be part of it and it makes good TV because you'll get people saying oh grown men should join box in an MMA yeah I agree with that as well I totally agree with that what is that buzz then to be at the forefront if there's 100 men, 200 men all fighting is that a totally different buzz from people can't really understand it if they've never really done it have they? no no a lot of people will never get it unless you're involved in it a lot of people will never get it to this day I'll still get slagged off doing talks like this as you think you shouldn't give them publicity I've just done the documentary for Italia 90 you get comments I read the comments why are you giving these people the time of day and you shouldn't give them any airtime if you don't do it I always preach to people we did it back in the day and we know it was wrong we all know it was wrong but we did it so we ain't going to get out of it and people ask us what it was like and I always say to people it won't worth it I want to met the people I met and these days fans have done it I mix with nice people these days I mix with TV stars I got a book out and second book's going to come out and people know I'm all right they won't have me in the company if they don't think I was all right we all met mistakes in life for everybody to get too much to say but these conversations that I haven't have you had murderers, bank robbers drug lords letting people love them because it's their chat just because I've interviewed them doesn't mean I agree with everything I've done it's just an interesting story how people go down that path and why they do it and what they've done it's just changes we can all look back and go I sure don't have done that everybody makes mistakes but there's been a time in your life when you absolutely loved it and thrived on it and being that brotherhood who interviewed Paul Doyle and that's what he says he had two sets of friends he had the gangsters and he had the football casuals and he says it would go with the football casuals these lads will have your back you can trust them there's not many you can't trust back in the day and over the years I've become good friends with different firms as well really good friends I want to meet them when I go to away games now a good Bristol city the Bristol lads take me to hospitality they come up to nothing and have a night out I take them to hospitality Middlesbrough I'm good mates with the borough lads now Newcastle, London, West Ham all good pals now we've got a story to tell and the lads that did it can actually tell the people now it's not worth it and we're role models to tell them it's not worth it, keep out of it that's what we're trying to do these days I do a lot of talks encourage people to get involved in it I talk about the past but it's the future now I will tell people it's not worth it they're not glorifying it if you were speaking to me I love this life, I do what I do but like you said people get older, people make changes people have chosen that path because it's all they know what was it like though to feel part of a gang and people who would have your back no matter what was that empowering at the time you're talking early 1980s Britain when they wouldn't work about and the jobs you got were mundane jobs you had to listen to a lot of bollocks of some idiot some jobs worth you think oh god I've got to put a whim all week and sadly it's exciting you're going to a football game in another city you're wearing nice clothes you've got your mates you're going to have a good laugh with it was an adrenaline rush it's just the time of the times what's it like if you get run from another phone well I must admit it's happened now and again it'd be a tell a lie if it didn't but you know it can ruin you sad it ruins you a street cred for a bit I had a copper on a few weeks ago but he went undercover for my wall I've seen him on the Italian anti he's on the documentary he'd done the follow my ID was he ever concerned that there could have been coppers in your fun everyone was paranoid in the mid 80s especially when we started infiltrating firms the West Ham lot got done Chelsea lot got done I know he's a good friend of mine from England Games they all got done Chris Anderson tried to do him I know Chris really well met him at the first England away game actually Spain I went on a bus with Chelsea lot from Chelsea on a Sunday night on a trip that was on the morning they got off compensation they bought bars and they're buying the bar off him off Chris How many people would fight for England? well yeah we all come together like I said in the Italian 90s interview recently nobody could touch England in the 80s early 90s nobody could touch us it's only it's all come full circle now it's all come full circle it's all come full circle now it's all come full circle now How was it when you see was it the Leeds fans who got killed? in Turkey How was it when you read things like that as a possibility could have happened to your sale? That's right because I went to Turkey like I said earlier you upset the locals you probably don't do anything wrong the Leeds fans probably won't do anything wrong the Leeds fans probably won't do anything wrong they don't like getting drunk somebody got abusive to somebody next minute the knives are out they haven't really done too much wrong that's why these countries used to visit that's what happened that's the sad thing it's sad when families go into the game and they're caught in a crossfire that's probably happened because of the reputation of England fans in the 70s and 80s watching that I tell you 90 programme of the last couple of weeks everyone's afraid of the England fans and the locals all turn out for you and they don't say no shit they don't want it to do on their doorstep but after time the England fans are just having a good time that's not their culture is it England fans like to just get drunk have a bit of a sing song and after time they think you're trying to cause trouble but they ain't How was it when it's all over the news do you think the news glorify it a bit more? The papers did glorify it recently in that documentary I remember going over to Germany in 1888 and the papers glorify it you know what I mean those paying people to cause trouble the press were out there actually giving last money go on throw some glasses do this do that you know what I mean that's what the press were like back in the 80s Why do you think there's so much negative press when England playing World Cups and stuff? It's always been the same 70s when England ran right around Europe you know what I mean I think Italy was the first tournament there was trouble in 1981 where the CS gas went off behind the bar behind the stand I think in England Italy won it England's always had bad reputation in tournaments since then the Spanish police were around in 1982 there was trouble in Spain in 1982 weren't they? Even in Mexico 86 I think they were Argentinians a lot of England fans got attacked in Mexico by Argentinian fans you know what I mean and then it was your 88 there was a lot of trouble out there that was when England really started going places like Scotland used to come down in the 70s Tech Over London didn't that and then there were very early 80s England fans had enough for that we started going up to Glasgow and I think I went to Glasgow 87 and 89 that's when we started travelling it went to a previous one England first time ever went England did for well Tech Over London didn't they but I think England fans had enough of it eventually a four-side it we're going to defend London Do you miss that? Not really, not really now maybe last moved on it's changed I don't mind talking about the past it's what I did I don't like violence now I've got a 12 year old son that I've taken to football you look back and think in them days not many families went to football they want a family orientated game it was just for your lads or football fans and if you did go to away games I said I repeat this used to get kicked to shit anyway if you want to have a normal fan and half the time the normal fans used to love it seeing us a lot because they'd walk back to the station with us and know they're being safe it's completely changed now football is a family orientated game which is for the better I don't like I would hate him to see any violence I don't want him going down that path What happens if the wee man 17, 18 says to you look bad I'm in the fun he'll get a bit of a slap around the house that's one thing I do regret it's put my parents for a lot of crap over the years police knocking on the door all the time mum and dad put them there for a lot of sleepless nights that's one I do regret that Did they know then what you were doing? Yeah I've actually got obsessed with it Did you ever get banned from any grounds? Yeah I've got my first ban in order I was 89 in Ellsfield in the Cup away got a six month ban then I got banned again at Birmingham early 90s I think that was another six month ban and then when the civil ban in order has come out 2000 they put me in one they had me down as a major leader at England Games we had some trouble in Greece in Athens because of that the British police decided to put a civil ban in order on me they couldn't take you they couldn't actually arrest you for what happened in Greece but there was a new law coming out civil law and every police officer that followed England they had a trial in Nottingham at Civil Court Manusraith Court is Kangaroo Court and every police officer that used to follow England come to witness against me and they gave me a three year civil ban in order and then I looked to England Turkey and I was just off the Leeds thing at Sunderland's Grand and they basically were telling me at the time you could go to that was when England started changing from Wembleed when the new Wembleed was being done and you should travel around the country doing games there was no law to say I couldn't drink in that city but they reckoned they sent me a letter saying I wasn't allowed in Sunderland that day but I never got a letter I actually ended up getting in some trouble with Sunderland fans after the game I got arrested and obviously went to Crown Court in Newcastle and that's when I got eventually prison in Durham but then obviously that civil ban in order was coming to an end and then because you went to prison it was a maximum six year ban in order on you so I eventually got banned for nine years I didn't see a forest for nine years so so when does it become tiresome then? that did become tiresome then because I got really friendly with the Newcastle boys and obviously at the time they didn't know the law they said I'm banned from England for forest games so I thought hang on about that I'll go to Newcastle in Europe because under Robbie Robson I started going to a few Newcastle games in Europe anyway Newcastle cop had stopped me in Rotterdam and said what are you doing here Gary I said I can't go to Newcastle so anyway knocking the police had a word back with me when I got back and then I got a letter from the British police saying I'll hand you passport in for Newcastle games and group champions league games how was it the bloody police stationing on every other week handing me passport in for about another six years that got tiresome you know what I mean and then you've got to apply to go on holiday somewhere and they won't give you you can't go on holiday because you've got to hand your passport in things like that you know what I mean it's the shit that happens after doing all that you don't realise the extent then and then obviously it can affect family it can affect like you say family holidays and everything and then I met my second wife just as a banynolder we were coming to an end in 2010 and I had my son in 2009 and the first game back I thought it was the forest and the leaves first game back ever was forest and the leaves couldn't get a bigger game anyway the local police I worked with my second wife and then I got friends with forest captain at the time for a mutual friend and he started inviting me in the players lounge and he had the security of the forest he said what are you doing in here I said what I've been invited in he couldn't do anything about it he said I want a meeting down he invited me down to the ground to have a meeting he put me on a civil banynolder he put me on a civil banynolder to ban me from forest you know what I mean but I refused to go to the meeting I didn't go to the meeting but they couldn't do anything about it they couldn't do anything about it what was it like going back to a game after being banned for the league it was very weird, very strange it was nervous I thought everyone's eyes was on me it was weird for a while how were you treated and pleasant very good actually it wasn't too bad because all the screws were newcastle lads and I knew all the newcastle boys and they told them I'm coming in and they looked after me actually so I got looked after it was a cat A prison it was murderers on me and everything and you were there for football when they told you on the door what you're doing they said life I ain't got a clue what he's doing he wasn't very nice actually I didn't really speak to him on my door he says four month all he wanted to do was cause of it so I'd do me four month he's not bothered he's doing life but if you're doing life and somebody's doing four month you're going to be angry at him what was your daily routine like I kept myself to myself they put me with somebody that was in for fraud and he was a family man and he was terrified I looked after him and he put me in with him and then eventually they moved me to an open prison he didn't want me to go you know what I mean so I just stayed in it was a 23 hour bangle he could go out for exercise but I just stayed in there with him keep your head down you know what I mean no confrontation then is he you know what I mean How hard does it when forest lose a reputation of being used to then getting relegated does that fuel you more anger going to the games or? they got relegated to the third league while I was on a banning order actually so I didn't see all the crap going to bloody Chester away on a Tuesday night but because we were the big fish in the third league at the time a lot of our lads were on banning orders about 100 of us so that's when the firm started spanding and we didn't really go and a lot of the little clubs took advantage of that you know what I mean and then once I got the six year banning order they put me on a radius so I want the lads to go within 10 miles and knock your forest playing but when I was on the civil banning order I used to go Cardiff away and just sit in the city centre and have a night out and a drink you know what I mean but I want the lads to go anywhere near it after that you know what I mean you clearly just love football they've probably been with any team that was playing if you could just go and watch some of that well that's what I did I did sort of go into all the games I went to a few Newport county games I got makes in Wales and there the police didn't know where you were and to be honest with you I used to do it for you different games you know what I mean I just go Newcastle I went up to Glasgow did a couple of Rangers games you know I went out the way I still want to watch football but I went offside you know what I mean so I still got me for football buzz Did you fight for other firms? No no no I just went for a drink and a day out I just wanted to watch some pure football then because I know some boys have went I think it's taught them in Aberdeen they've got a good connection I never knew that until last year Did you grow a connection with any other firms while you were active? Yeah yeah we call them good friends we have to see a clone in Germany How so? I went over there to watch Newcastle to Leverkusen because I said earlier the police got me in Rotterdam and I shouldn't really have gone but I got paranoid and I stayed in Cologne and Leverkusen was up the road like knocking them to Mansfield I got paranoid and stayed in Cologne on my own and I watched the game in this Irish bar it's like this lad cake looking at me Anyway I went over to him so what were you looking at? No no no I said you're Newcastle aren't you? Yeah I'm Newcastle because I'm FC Cologne I said okay mate, I'll sell a beer, shook his hand and I'll sell him forrest up from Nottingham because do you know Gary Clark from Nottingham? I said I'm Gary Clark and he won't believe me I had my passport on me because I'm Gary Clark he said I remember watching BBC Hooligans panorama on there and they invited me over to a Cologne game a few months later so I went over and I thought I knew everybody Anyway after the game I played Hanover four of us went over, after the game he took us to their pub walked in their pub light and he didn't really know anybody there's about 50 lumps in there and I thought what's going on here I mean it filled in here you know what I mean Anyway he introduced me to one lad lovely lad, he looked after us had a few drinks whatever else you do and we went to the club stayed mates forever and then they started coming over to Nottingham and it just grew and grew and now there's probably 50-60 clone come over once or twice a year for a forest game there's a lot to go over there there's different friendships now so we formed a really good friendship we have to see a clone that's mad inn't it? that's mad, yeah makes forever there's a couple of them coming over that target for other firms yeah you did yeah you do because you're on the national TV panorama you know what I mean you're a target I won't really like that meal for a bit because obviously we were playing meal all that day it was under cover police followers and the meal was a lot of going down on the phone under cover camera and all the meal guys it was easy to think here you know what I mean so it does doesn't it you know what I mean you're a target aren't you know what I mean See if Mulwell will ever get to the Premiership and that kind of fighting will become more rife they're still at it aren't they they've done a bit on the Premier League haven't they they was in the old first division the late eighties the old you could call it the Premier League now they came over for a couple of years and the old dent went down there a couple of times that was a bit hectic you know what I mean a very airy place to go it would be funny to see them on the Premier League to see well yeah I don't think it changed to be honest with you I don't think that like I said earlier there's a conveyor belt of them you know what I mean I don't think they they've probably got the oldest league in the world you know I think they've been in the 1670s are still at it aren't they Was it hard to see for us to let them down the leagues Yeah it was heartbreaking really you know the big club like Forrest you know European champions and I think with the first team ever to get relegated and Europe to get relegated to the third of the league you know what I mean so it was hard you know What happened? It was ownership and managers spending money wrong money you know and nobody took care of the club you know what I mean and there was people taking money out of the club that come in to take over sort of taking money out of the club you know what I mean so it's a diamond spiral you know what I mean so it just went it just started decaying didn't it you know what I mean See them you've got a top firm he's a winning trophies they've then been in the third tier for then you're banning from games Was it sad to see that there's not many as strong in the firm because you all get banning orders like Is that hard to see? Yeah a lot of little firms took the Mickey you know what I mean if I was going to come and stuck at a few places you know what I mean because lads were on banning orders couldn't go and obviously there's less tickets in them leagues smaller grounds so you're only getting a thousand way tickets so less fans went and you're the like the Manchester United in the third division so you're the big fish everyone wants to fry you know what I mean Who's the top firms in these small divisions? Well you know you look at teams like Portsmouth down there you know what I mean Derby in the third division they've got to be a big fish now aren't they but back in there Lincoln City were good Lincoln City were always good always tasty firm always well represented in England games Plymouth Argyll they've always had a top mob in the lower leagues you know what I mean there's one or two like I've said earlier you don't want to spend anybody a little mob you know what I mean but Lincoln were always good always rated Lincoln in the lower leagues over the years What about the rivalry between Forrest and Derby? How bad is that? Yeah it stems probably from the early 70s from the Clough days really yeah it's a nasty rivalry you know what I mean it's gone on for a long time we used to meet each other at Skegnes for a bank holiday punch up we'd meet each other offside we'd come on nights out down there when they want no football so any excuse to have a tear up with them they'd come offside Did Clough get any stacks or jump from Derby to Forrest? He's still worshipped at both clubs he's a god at Derby he's a god at Forrest Derby had to take the Mickey about us because one of his most famous sayings when he came to Forrest and he said nothing was never a football city to cover that but I think that was just Clough trying to wind everybody up one of his tactics How was it writing your book? Yeah I quite enjoyed it it took about 12 months Martin King wrote it it's a Chelsea fan he had his own book company at the time he did quite a few books around the country and spent a lot of time on the South Coast doing it with him it was enjoyable doing it an enjoyable experience not really because I got permission off all the lads I told everyone up front we're doing it and I said you want to be in it you can be in it if you don't want to be in it I respect everyone's like I respect everyone's Like you say once you write the book it's a game over Was there any regret or anything? Not really, no no regret because I did it to get out of it there was other people who could have wrote books rather than me top boys who could have wrote a book they could still write a book I was never at the forefront to write a book I did it for my own personal sacrifice I wanted to get out of it I thought once you put pen to paper it's job done football is a drug on it it's hard to get out of it once you're in it I knew it was my time I needed to move on I needed to settle down that's no life, family life that's why I put pen to paper you're getting present sentences you're getting banned in orders you're looking at older people did anybody ever say look what you're doing you're just wasting your fucking life like get your shit together always just keep doing what you're doing everything's fine it was getting a bit embarrassing you're getting nearly 40 I thought to myself I don't want to be seen as someone in the 40s wearing stone iron going down in a match and still looking for trouble the young ones get on with it these days back in the day I know a few of the lads still like it but that's their choice they do what they want to do what do you think about the young kids now who do you think has all changed it has changed a lot of our lads go down the gym they do train and they're odd lads but it's a different ballgame now I feel sorry for them because if they do anything wrong they'll get straight to prison there's cameras everywhere I tell them it's not worth it but it's their choice I wouldn't like to see people getting involved throw your life away you start getting in trouble some of them are in the 20s and 30s they've got good jobs, they've got mortgages they don't want to throw all that away do you know what I mean what's the biggest sentences you've seen getting through the biggest forest was that Everton thing there's a couple of other mates from Stockport he's been on more banning orders I've never known him in my life he came up for a drink with me the other week when I played Liverpool at home he's out of it now but I've never known anyone bits of ban from football in my life I think he spent half his life in jail for football it's too much we laugh about it we laugh about it now but he's turned his life around as well who was he taught boys at the forest the older generation from the 70s the probably five years older in me one of my good mates he's always been our top boy he would call him one punch he went to a child at Milsborough I always respect him I love him to bits he's one of the oldest men I've ever seen at football he's moved on there were several lads above me I was the second generation there was the 70s generation I was the early age I was a casual generation a lot of lads round me back me up, they were older than me I couldn't see the north of stuff I did way out then backing me up what's that like running towards people you've got people backing you up and you know they're not turning away it's adrenaline rush isn't it it's a buzz you know you're not going anywhere it's the worst the opposition probably won't go anywhere it's a big tear up how many people in each man United Kilburn they had about 500 they did that day the league cup final it was like the start of the London marathon when he looked down that road we actually stood his ground for a while but we just got turned over the pub got turned over just to him many of them swamped us but we had some tasty rows in Milsborough over the years some good ones with Borough we had a few in Man United over the years the FA Cup Final Old Trafford that was a May M day as well there's been several even the little ones I used to enjoy it when there were 50 of us I got a bigger boss when there were so many of us you know what I mean when you had the more tight knit group there were so many games now there's games every day I don't know how people cope in Champions League now I was with the Topman mates last week they're in Europe they went to Marseil last week and they're in Europe, they're going to AC Milan soon and he's been to AC Milan twice in the last few years it's morning and time off, work in it it's that much football now we'd love it if Forest got back in Europe because we're all go again, we haven't been for years it's like a book Valencia, we've got pre-season friendly well not pre-season, pre-world cup and secondly lad it's the 100th celebration of Valencia's grand and Forest has been invited over because Forest was their first European team to celebrate the 100 years of their stadium so I booked my boy, took my boy for Christmas he's dead excited did you ever walk about without the football walk about the streets and see rival funds and did anybody ever put it on you I've been in the wrong place at the wrong time a few times, you've been down London and you knew you could tell by the clothes you wore and the swag you had you walked from the city and they put it on you there's times in London you always get in London, big city you go to a match, you go offside for a bit and you're back to train some pancreas you're always bumping into some mob you know what I mean did you ever have any close calls where you're thinking fuck my life loads of times, loads of times I'd be lying if I didn't how do you get through it then if you've had a good terror if you've been out in the piss isn't it hard to sleep with the adrenaline or do you sleep okay? no, no, you'd be thinking about it all night half the time, you know what I mean going through your dreams, you know what I mean it's all dreams, you know what I mean so seeming it started becoming tired so you started getting into prison like it was at 39, decided right enough that's right, enough I think it's getting that big 4-0 I remember police officers come up to me once I was caught for something I told them all for this go about the time you got out of it it did home actually when he said that to me I actually said to him, I don't think I am his words rang true actually and I thought he's right what am I doing messing about at that age you know what I mean so Stephen you come out then if you've been involved for 20 years how hard is that to tell people or do you just step up without telling anybody how does it work? it was hard to get out of it but I still people look up to you and then people what we're doing next week I deliberately went out the way off site I didn't want to go around in groups anymore I had my own little four or five mates I won't go around, I'll try to avoid the pubs because you could be in the wrong place at some time the wrong time sorry if I go to the pubs where I know the lads were drinking something happened, I'm in that pub I could be stood at the bar something might happen because of my reputation I could get in trouble again so I deliberately avoided them pubs for a long, for a few years association basically guilty by association if you're seeing a pub full of 200 boys for a game I was told when I was going back to forest by the security if we see you down here in a group of more than 10 people we were having you, we were banning you from forest I was actually told by him when I started coming back in 2010 he was actually warned me how hard was it to stop you decided right enough and see you know there was a good fun down the road and it was going to kick off is it like an addiction where you're totally fainting against it or did it become easy because you knew that it was just becoming a waste of time it was easier because obviously I got that banning all the way, I wanted a lad for a few years from 2003 to 2004 and I wanted a lad back till 2010 so I didn't go anywhere near it for a while and then when I just started going back down I first met my second wife and I started going to the matchage with her so I got out and it gradually took a few years but I wanted a lad to go so I went cold turkey anyway you know what I mean Was it like coming off fucking drugs? Yeah, it was, yeah, it was difficult Could you speak to other people who had done the same who stepped back from it? Yeah, like rehab in it Yeah, it's like a cocaine addiction you know what I mean you have to go cold turkey it takes a while to get off it Did anybody from your fun go out he's losing it anyway or any negative comments? I think one or two but there's one or two said behind me back sort of thing I know that for a fact because people would tell me one or two had a moan a lot of my main mates the main lads, they put them right they stuck up for me Yeah, is that a difficult thing if people start turning against you because you think you've turned against them by walking away? Not really because the people that did it I know they won't really front line anyway you know what I mean it's just the hangers on so I won't really bothered about it I decided to move on, it's my choice I'm not listening to other people anyway Is it a Tao Yan Ain't anything you've done there? What was that, a three part series? Yeah, a three part series it's called Italian Iron Seas the game changed forever because I saw 85 they wanted a documentary I liked it from 85 the bad times going up to 1990 I changed a British game because they didn't want England going and then I don't think if we had to done so well when the fans would have got kicked out of Italian Iron Seas I don't think there would have been a birth of the Premier League a couple of years later so there wouldn't have been all that money coming in people would have put money into British football so it did change football forever really and England getting to the semi-final we've got the field goal factor back in Britain for the British game How has that seen England but semi-finals finals and does that make you miss it when you're seeing such big events and partly you wish you were being involved or is it just being good now being a family man and enjoying it more? Well yeah, I didn't go to England I didn't go and watch England from 2001 until my lad wanted to go obviously he started like in England watching it on television I took him to a nations game two or three years ago and then obviously the Euros last year I sort of got the buzz because England started doing well and I managed to get a couple of Germany tickets last minute night before so I said to him we're going to England Germany, you're buzzing and then we got the bug again for Wembley it was a bit like 96 one it you know the field goal factor and I went to the semi-final I didn't take him to the semi-final I took him to the final I managed to get a couple of final tickets so to watch England in the final with your lad and I enjoyed that Did you not go to the England games specifically because you were scared you would get back involved again? Yeah, yeah, it's too many idiots going now I don't want to go anywhere near it plus I am, there's always a chance someone might have a pop at you I don't want to bother about it because the reputation has preceded themselves I didn't want to get back into that sort of thing and there's always somebody willing to have a go because I'm quite high profile media now as well do a lot of books, documentaries and stuff there's always someone who has a pop in there I did a bit of it, it kept out of the way of it as well the short problem is now, my lad likes England do you know what I mean? Does that become a concern though as he starts to enjoy it and know who his dad's reputation is as well? Yeah, he don't really know he don't really grasped it yet you know what I mean but one day he's obviously going to find out but obviously we'll have a talk one day you know what I mean? Does that become a worry for you in case a little bit a little bit, yeah he's level-headed he'll know it's all back in the past but there's always people going to tell him you know what I mean? Yeah, there's fucking lots of things to tell do you know what I mean? How old is he now 12? 12, yeah especially at schools in that if you're on TV reading books then this is the age now a lot of it with the internet as well it's handy in it YouTube whatever what do you know for the future guys? I follow cricket a lot I follow England abroad at cricket I'm going to Pakistan a week on Monday for the first test since I've been packed up the football I've been going a lot of cricket games away I've been barbed as four times I've done four India tours Sri Lanka, South Africa, Australia I follow England cricket it's different type of people you can have a drink, the police don't bother you the nice people it's a bit like myself, getting on a bit it's like it's a bit sunshine, watching a bit of cricket and other booze you visit shopical countries you never dream of going so I follow cricket all around the world now Do you think you just like being in that sort of environment? Yeah, I like sport has it ever kicked off with the cricket fans? Very I've seen some trouble in Sri Lanka once very rare it's very rare you get anything everyone has a bit of a laugh and talk about the old days everyone's well-behaved everyone's well-behaved just have a laugh together it's a lot of dob if you like to go to the cricket keep yourself some of yourselves we don't really mix with them but you'll say hello but there's never no trouble See when you're sitting in the cricket watching the cricket got a pint do you ever look round and think fuck me I'm either getting older I just try to live a safe life but do you ever question it you used to be front line do you ever get paranoid as well that the corpus are still looking at you or does that surpass cos I used to do shoplifting back in the day even now when I walk through the fucking alarms I still think this is going to go off here Do you seem you're sitting in the crowd do you feel as if the corpus may be still watching you or is that paranoia go? No you do, you do think that way you're still in your head, you know what I mean I mean I'm locking police officer come up to me at Brighton every week but I've been told now cos I've got a couple of mates who are in the force that used to go football and decided to join the police force at a later date and they've actually told me they're not bothered about me anymore I'm not on the radar anymore which is good to hear isn't it You're always worried isn't it like you say association, bang for you're locked up, you ban for football for a life how do you think you would have handled that if you got a life ban but some people you know what I mean I won't be able to take you into an England or a forest game that would have hurt me more than anything cos obviously my lads bang into football loves football I won't be able to take you into Lentu in a couple of weeks I won't be able to take you into England or Euro final last year it's a long term effect isn't it thank God the right time I got out of it I fly out a week on Tuesday to Pakistan I have to change planes in Doha guitar, find my guitar airways change planes the day England play Wales in that city I think I was saying imagine if I get stopped in Doha I'm going to Pakistan for the cricket you know what I mean lads you're lying bastard you know what I mean see when you get a ban in order see if you go to a game and get caught what happens you'd probably get a prison sentence or you'd be a big FDI put another ban in order wouldn't you what's it like for the gangs who do get leafbans I was one of two of my mates on leafbans ban from Forest for Life I think they're eating it now they can't go and watch Nightingham Forest they're my age and got a bit older they own leafbans they can't go to a name game back in the Premier League now they couldn't go to Wembley last year they missed that now aren't they what was it like then obviously trying to change your life become more calmer, watching cricket forest getting into the playoffs was old urges coming back no, no, no I went to all the playoffs from my lad I got to all the young games with my boy I was just enjoying the atmosphere and the emotion of getting in the playoffs and going to Wembley and taking him to Wembley because he's on a season ticket situation before he's never seen any success and going to Wembley when he beat Aldersfield he was roaring at a full time whistle that was one of the best days of my life watching Forest forget all the cup finals and everything after 23 years about being out at the Premier League watching Forest win at Wembley getting back to the promised land and seeing him, the roaring motion coming out of him he gave me so much joy that was better that beats all the football ulegalism back in the day, watching your son celebrate Forest back in the Premier League that beats anything most important so seeing you get to the Premier League what you thinking then 20 odd years and you've run out of prison you've banning orders and that moment comes where you say listen, this is the best league in the world with the names playing it now with the managers it's a great league but what you thinking when you get you're just happy that you can enjoy those moments with your son as part of you think fuck me man, we're going into the big leagues again no, I don't think that way anymore that one never entered my mind I'm just enjoying the fact I'm taking him to Old Trafford Etihad, Emirates, Tottenham I'm enjoying taking him I've had him there I'm just enjoying watching him enjoy it hopefully Forest will stay up this season and the bigger things are going to come we've got a great manager great club great owner great backroom, great chairman great board so what do you think for us these chances of staying up this year? I thought at the beginning of the season we'd finished at least half way but obviously we had that wobble to gel at the same time and things went backward a bit but Steve Cooper was that good a manager and the board kept faith, the fans kept faith he didn't just become a bad manager overnight he's had a hard job to bring all these players together and we're just in a bit of form now and I think we will stay up I do believe we'll stay up we've got two good a manager we've got good players we're just starting to gel now we've got that five week break more time for them to gel together so what do you think for us that's great to have a player? John Robertson and Ian Storymore voted the best two ever John Robertson in my day I didn't really see Ian Storymore even though he's a good friend of mine now and Robo is as well Stan Collymore great sense forward I've ever seen down there we had two years of Stan I enjoyed watching Stan but the European Cup team they're all good players Roy Keane was brilliant Nigel Clough Martin O'Neill was good he's a great player he won too he won too I've become good friends with that side now for him and me we made a film about I believe in miracles I've got to know him all the last few years I have him down at Colton Tarners, guest speakers now and they all come down here for nothing give up the time on Saturday afternoon in the club I asked a quick Q&A none of them want anything they're good as gold all of them brilliant people How has it looked back in your life so far? I've enjoyed it it's been a rollercoaster I don't regret anything I've lived life to the full I've had a good time I've seen a lot of countries met a lot of good people I wouldn't know all these people if you want for the football I would visit people in different places it's been a rollercoaster but it's been more ups and downs What about your second book? We've started work on the second book I'm doing it with a co-author he had a chequered pass back in the day in Nottingham he's a forest fan as well he runs a global world charity now called World Game Changers I'm a patron for them we do a lot of good stuff in the community so I've been helping them out last couple of years there are chapters for them in their books and we decided to write a co-book we started on it last week we're doing another chapter tonight after we've finished it's called Angels with Dirty Faces how you can turn your life around it's not all doom and gloom even though what we did in the past but now we do a lot of good stuff in the community I work down here for this club I work for that charity as well so we try to put a bit back That's what we're talking about We do a lot for this club Let's talk about this club and give it a shout out What does it do here? I'm a commercial manager I've got to learn in the last few years I used to come up with a few fun raisers at Christmas, got to know the chairman enjoying Covid we won't learn to watch first division football but non-league footballers still come and watch it so I started coming down to a few games really enjoyed it you can have a drink at the side of the pitch so there was a void at the club we left it curses to the family and everything we left it in one and asked me to do a fancy doing the job and I thought yeah it's a privilege I'll come on board I can bring a lot of fun into the club I've got a lot of good mates that will help out I get contacts and I'm enjoying it and I believe in putting something back into football and taking it out like I did in the 80s So this is Carlton Town Football Club How was it when you first came was there any raised eyebrows because of your past? I think there was the chairman told me recently I'm not going to lie to you he said there was one of two people questioning the decision why you're taking Gary on but the chairman said he's a complete change guy we've got total faith in him he backed me to the hill which is great having a bit of faith in you because not everybody has faith in you and you don't change For anybody that's watching because you've been a man who's been involved in it for anybody that's maybe in a life of crime or being dodgy or maybe struggling in life what advice would you have for them? I'll say you can turn it round there is life after it I've done it myself I was in the doldrums and all the people you interviewed you can move on if you put your heart to it you can set your mind to it it's a mindset you can move on I know a lot of people run a boxing club in Nottingham and he was in a gang called to you back in the day and he's done the sack of the same he helps out in the community you can turn it round don't give up What about your first book, Amazon? First book still on Amazon the second one will be out in odd that'll be available on Amazon it'll be available in good book shops as well we'll do a launch down here I think we're doing a launch in Murfartown Football clubs have got a relationship with Murfartown there as well we play with other pre-season friendlies we went to Murfartown this summer they came up to us last year with their turn to come up here next year that's from a good friend who works at Forrest the collection there Watch your social medias in that Gary just in case people want to get in contact Gary Boatsy Clark on Twitter Gary Boatsy and then Instagram is Gary Boatsy Clark as well Who's a Boatsy Min? That's my nickname back in the day I had some trainers in the early 80s when I was about 16 I've always had big feet when the PMG Vela has come in we're tight-faded jeans and that I come in the pub one day with these new blue trainers one of the lads went they look like boats you know what I mean I was only 16 then you know what I mean Gary, for coming on today brother that's not for me to enjoy that Would you like to finish up on anything? No, thanks for coming down to see me you know, I've enjoyed it Thanks again mate, once you get your second book out we'll get you back on again Cheers brother, God bless you