 Welcome back to The Breakfast here on PLOS TV Africa. Our next conversation takes us to the southeast where in the last couple of weeks it's not been good news. Reports of attacks on police facilities, attacks on police officers and of course INEC offices over the weekend. Once again, another INEC office was attacked and burnt by arsonists. The name Unknown Gone Men has also become popular in many parts of the southeast. This morning we are speaking with Mr Balla El-Kana, Police Public Relations Officer, IMO State Command, to shed some light on what might be going on in IMO State and across the southeast. Good morning Mr El-Kana, thanks for joining us. Good morning, I'm nice to be with you. All right, it's been one bad story after the other in the last few weeks across the southeast. But let's start by focusing on IMO State. The stories of Unknown Gone Men, the attacks on police facilities and INEC offices, what seems to be going on? Well, the last few days we are quite hectic. Our special forces were everywhere, engaging hoodlums in quite a number of locations who stitch quite a number of attempts to burn down the police stations and other facilities in the states. While some of the few attempts were a bit successful, majority of those attempts were repelled by our gallant men. Just last night we had a similar one and our gallant men were able to stop that attempt and we recorded quite a number of fatality from the hoodlums, not from our sites. We had another ugly one that involves the Ahmed Gulak who was on his way to the airport and was attacked by those hoodlums. We also swiftly responded. We were able to trust them to a particular location where they were also carrying out another attack and we were able to get them down. They engaged us actually and our bulletproof vehicles were actually sprayed with a lot of bullet but since it is bulletproof it couldn't really penetrate to kill our men but we were able to also win that battle. Ten of them were fatally injured and the three vehicles they used also to carry out the attack on Gulak were recovered. Okay well I think we'll get to Gulak, Manetta will get to Gulak next I guess. Indeed, so talking about emus states in particular, you know looking at this attack on Gulak and all the other you know attacks on police stations, Inak offices here and there, what in the streets is that the police actually does not have emus states in the southeast under control. Do you argue otherwise? To be honest with you we are fully in control of our public space otherwise there will no be single movement. These guys who are determined, we are daring, we are out to kill, to maim and to disturb the peace of the state but for the resilience of our men or the gallant effort of our men we're able to stop them and life is still going on in emus states. We have massive deployment all over. Okay I want to ask about identifying these persons because for you know the last few weeks and maybe even months we you know we have suddenly named these persons unknown gunmen. So talk a little bit about why it has been difficult to identify who these persons are, what part of the country they are from, what their motive might be. Is there anyone that you know was caught and you know currently is being interrogated to understand better where you know they come from who arms them and you know where their hideouts are. You know is there any information at all instead of just you know calling them unknown gunmen that attack police facilities and also the persons who you know you've mentioned you know that you know killed Ahmed Gulak. Have they been identified? Is there any information you know that you know we can get out of that incident? Well I don't know where the word unknown gunmen originated from because I don't want to accept it, I don't want to believe it. We have engaged these guys in quite a number of occasions when the launch attack we have seen them. We have pulled down quite a number of them. We got some of them alive. They are known. They are not unknown gunmen. We know them. We know the hoodlums. We know those guys. Those also who killed Gulak we were able to uncover them because we engaged them yesterday and we got them down. So they are known. So they are known as who? Some of them are members of iPop and Eastern Security Network my brother. So we saw a picture of actually a video of you know about 50 men who were you know walked out of a church service that would be in Enogu state right? Would you say those are part of the you know members of the iPop ESN or do we have any idea why those people were you know paraded out of the church service on a Sunday? In Enogu state I have no idea what's happening. You can get that clearance from Enogu state spokesperson. Okay so going back to your earlier stance when you said the police in Enogu state has control over the state we you know lots of Nigerians don't believe that to be quite frank because when you remember incidents like you know the burning of police stations attacks on the on the governor's house you know and and so on and so forth and men carrying guns and patrolling the state. I mean how then can you argue that the police is in charge? Some of those things you see are just this flying on the social media. Come to the street or move around. As I'm talking to you I'm on the streets I'm on the street moving around to see for myself what is happening in town. Life is going on in emo states so it's not as widely speculated. We have four list men all over other security forces all over the ploy patrolling the streets and people are going about their normal lives. And the reports of people being picked up from hostels I saw a few reports like that that their presence been arrested randomly from their school hostels and from their homes. Is that part of the investigation? Or is that part of police work? There are a lot of intelligence we are working with. There are a lot of information that are coming in which our technical team are analyzing and there are a lot of details out there that we are using. The operation is intelligence driven. Once we have enough intelligence or a particular target that participates in any previous attack or inmates that have escaped from the prisons during the jailbreak, definitely we stormed the community and we picked him. These are things we do and we were able to get over 80 of those inmates who have escaped. We have got them arrested and we have returned them to the prison facilities. So quickly also share with us ways that the police force was able to identify these persons that you've called ESN and IPOB members. You said some of them are. How about the rest of them and also how did you identify them as IPOB or ESN members? Is they uniform? Is there anything that you know that you could use to identify them? They have a particular emblem and also talking to them during investigation. They confess, they confirm that they are members of these proscribe groups. Then we also have some criminal elements also some hoodlums who also hide under these and come out also to attack. So which is why I use the word some of them are members of IPOB and some of them are members of the ESN security network, while some also are just mere criminals also who are taking advantage of this situation. All right, see I need to ask you about this you know, simian habit of the police because there's something we've seen time and time again of arresting people without investigation. We discussed this last week about five people were arrested paraded by the police. There was a picture that you know, surfaced on social media. Their hands were tied with their shirts and people started speaking up that you know identifying these people to say I know this guy, his name is Daddy Fresh, he's my barber. I know this man, his name is Mr. eBay, he lives in Bonnie Island. He simply came into a worry for his father in law's burial. But these people were just picked up maybe by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have no idea. But can you give us clarity on this particular case and about this you know norm about the police just picking up people without due investigation? You see there is nobody that will be arrested by the police and somebody will say we will not say that he don't know the person. Every single person has relations and everybody will tell you that his relation is clean. See, you will not know that a madman on the streets has somebody until you knock him down with your car. The madman is moving freely, nobody cares. Once you knock the madman with the car, you see people coming out to tell you this is the breadwinner of the family. This is the, this is a very nice person. This is this, you know. Look, anybody you see us pick, there is a reason. That is why it is called investigation. Allow the police to investigate and come out with details. The court of law is also there. The person has the right also to defend himself. If he is not culpable, he will walk out freely. But Mr Ayokana, in other parts of the world, how we see investigations being carried out is that the police has done their due diligence. They have interviewed lots of people. They have their evidence and they go and arrest this person. And when they arrest that person, there is hardly any, you know, coming out of it because they have their evidence that points that this person is guilty. But when it comes to Nigeria, people are just picked up, they are locked, you know, in a police custody for days and you find out that they are innocent. But their rights have been, have been breached. I don't know. How do you justify that? Is it, we are quick to compare Nigeria with other jurisdictions that are highly advanced, highly sophisticated, that have all the technologies that have all it takes. We are a developing nation. We are not fully developed. We are not there yet. Two things are involved. Some of the jurisdictions you are describing are practicing what we call an inquisitorial system, not the accusatorial system. The first thing they do is they inquire before they accuse. But what we have in our jurisdiction is accusatorial system. We accuse first, then we are due the evidence. That is our system of, no, there are two different jurisdictions. But a system that, you know, has lots of people unjustly in prison, according to many reports we've seen, should that be allowed to continue? Definitely, we try on our part to be sure that those we have in our custody are those who really have a question to answer. Even from the preliminary stage, once we discover that you have no question to answer or you have no sufficient evidence to hold you, we grant you bail. That is why administrative bail is allowed. All right. I want to go back to talking about Ahmed Gulak because it is currently one of the biggest stories across the country. You said, you know, that these persons that were, you know, that are responsible have been found by the police. Unfortunately, it was a gone, you know, battle that led to their death. About 10 of them, like you mentioned. Can you also confirm, you know, from the police report it says that they are ESN members? So help us confirm that that is true. And then second, from the details of, you know, Ahmed Gulak's killing, it sounds like he was singled out. So is there any reasons why the ESN would have issues with Ahmed Gulak? Well, you see, investigation is ongoing. Oh, they are dead. The people are dead. So how do you, how do you conclude the investigation? There are more details. There are more details we are working on, which I cannot disclose on the, on television now. But investigation is ongoing. More updates will come up. Okay. But so far with investigation, even if these persons have been killed, the investigation points to the ESN and IPOB. Sure, it is. Okay. So is there a possibility that the investigation might say different, you know, when it is concluded? Well, I don't see it coming from that angle, but there are other things we are also looking at. Our investigators are looking at which I will give the update as soon as that also is concluded. All right. A little bit more about the ESN and the IPOB. What is it currently seeming like? You know, does it seem like they are now an armed group in the Southeast? Is there, you know, ideas who, you know, might be arming these people? And also, Governor Rotimiakiridolu has mentioned that there's people who are trying to stook tension between the North and the Southeast. And that's why, you know, some of these accusations have been thrown left and right. So share your thoughts on what Governor Kiridolu is thinking, you know, that they might be trying to blame certain people to create tension between the North and the Southeast. And then also, what exactly is the IPOB currently, you know, like? Or the ESN? Well, it is not in my place to respond to a statement that he has made. But let me tell you for sure, if you look at some of the few videos of the operations or some of the attacks, you will see that these hoodlums are armed. They are carrying weapons. They are not ordinary civilians. They are armed. They are out to kill. They are out to destroy. They are out to attack security forces and other people in the States. So definitely, these are criminal elements we are dealing with. And we are treating them as such. Yeah, you know, but what I'm asking is, you know, about the ESN IPOB. You've called them hoodlums. You've called them criminals. But is there an evidence that shows that they are, you know, outrightly ESN or majority ESN? Or is it just a, you know, an increase in number of hoodlums and criminals in the Southeast that are not necessarily associated with the ESN? Whoever is involved in crime, under whatever guys, under whatever name, at the pick up arm, what do you call him? So definitely, that is exactly what we are treating them. The whole crime in emu state are not associated with IPOP or ESN security network alone. There are other also crimes going on, which we are dealing with. All right. So I also need to ask you about something. You've been speaking about this in recent time. We know about the IPOP state at home order and what the police, you know, has been warning emu state residents about, we're showing them about their security. But what's it like right now in emu state regarding that state at home order? Well, people are moving out freely. Life is going on in emu state. Nobody can issue an order here. There we can have, they are not governments that will declare a coffee on people. So there's no house somebody will see somewhere and decide to control how people live their life or restrain their right to freedom of movement. That is criminal in itself. All right. We know that governors of other states have said that, you know, traders, from the east can choose to lock up shop if they want, can choose to stay at home if they want. So I don't know if that's their own freedom of movement, why would the police, you know, argue otherwise? I didn't get that, please. We're saying that, you know, IPOP have been ordering people to sit at home and governors of other states are saying people can choose to sit at home if they want to. Well, the police is saying otherwise. I'm saying, is that not, you know, if people choose to sit at home, why should the police, you know, argue otherwise? Well, if people choose to stay at home out of their own religion, not because somebody out there is still here on them, that is fine. If you decide you don't want to go for your business because you want to rest, excellent. But not because someone out there sit out to control the life of people to still fear in the people. We have a duty, we have a responsibility to protect the lives of the people, to make sure that we create that conducive atmosphere for them to carry out their local business, which is why we deployed massively. We have our special forces and we move out to reassure them of their safety and they have seen that we are out to protect them. All right. Okay. So this is at home order, really. Today is May 31st. It should also, you know, go on today. So can you confirm to us what the situation like is in in more state? Life is going on fine. I told him also on the streets, people are selling, people are doing their businesses. Life is going on. All right. Final question for me is at the end of the investigation, is there, you know, a likelihood that the emo state police command will be able to give us, you know, 100% clarity on what happened with Ahmed Gulak and of course, share with the Nigerian people. That is my responsibility to keep on updating Nigerians on happiness in emo states and definitely once investigation is concluded, we will come also with updates. All right. Mr. Balai O'Kana, Public Relations Officer of the police in emo state, thank you very much for joining us on the breakfast this morning. Thank you for having me. All right. So that's a moment. Stay safe. Yes. Yes. That's where we draw the curtains today. All about security from aqua bomb states, the security of young girls, young job seekers in the state and what's happening in emo state in the South East in general regarding the whole set at home order issued by iPop, the rising in security and all of that. So if you've missed any part of our conversation, please join us at plus TV Africa on also she made Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and our YouTube channel at plus TV Africa. I am Annette Felix. I'm asking you to have a great week.