 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey guys. Yeah. Hi, Sal. Uh, in this motherfucking episode. Whoa. Whoa. Smaring poop for the first 59 minutes. We got Taylor made into the house and Douglas in the house. Adam, Taylor. First of his many nicknames is me, man. Douglas. I'm out of control. And I do our introductory conversation before we get into the questions. We start off by talking about the Viori podcast hard event last night. Damn epic. It was electric. We were touched in places yesterday that felt real good. It was a night. It was a good, good, a good event. By the way, we have got to hook up for all of our listeners for Viori. Now, Viori clothing is, Taylor basically said it's the sexiest stuff you could put on your body. True. If you go to Viori clothing, let me spell that out for you, it's V-U-O-R-I clothing.com forward slash mind pump. We're going to give you a full 25% off your full order. It's a special offer. Just for fun. Gear it up, man. It's awesome stuff. Then we talked about our tour of the Organifi headquarters. We actually went in there, looked at their sales process, interviewed Drew Canole. Holy Canole. He's a, is he a Paisano like me? He's got it. The last thing I could ask for is. We're also sponsored by Organifi. If you go to Organifi. We're sponsored by them. Spansored. And we're sponsored by them. Both. Two of those. They're paying us double for double the commercials. You're on a roll today. That's right. Find out why Taylor's hair looks so luxurious. If you go to organifishop.com, enter the code mind pump. You'll get a big discount. We talked about Taylor's impression of our fans. He's actually attracted to most of you. We talked about the risk of telling the truth, the power of being real and truthful, gaming the biggest loser and other contests, the objective truth movement, and our upcoming near live podcast hard event. Gonna be fire. You guys better make it to that one. There's some slots available. Sign up for that shit. Go to www.mindpumpmedia.com forward slash tour and sign up by the way for that one. You got to put the triple W in the beginning because I have no fucking idea why it just doesn't work. It doesn't work otherwise. We don't know why. Yeah, technology. Then we get to the questions. The first question was if you want to compete in both bodybuilding and powerlifting, which one should you do first? Is there a benefit? Great question. Good question. I liked it. The next question was for online training coaching, what are our thoughts on high ticket coaching? Like, do we think it's a better to go with the high cost, low volume approach or the high volume, low cost approach? Which one? Hang in there, Jonathan. It does take about 45 minutes, but we do finally answer this question. Yeah, we run circles and come back eventually. Excellent. Then the next question, I go off on this one a little bit. You guys kind of let me, which I get a little self-conscious. I brought you a little soap box. We talk about the victim mentality that seems to be on the rise in society. Somebody asked us what our opinion was on that. And I went off for a little while. And then finally, last question. Can posing or flexing your muscles help with the mind muscle connection? You might have heard of the mind muscle connection from bodybuilders and muscle builders and how important it is to have a good connection to your muscles to activate them when you train them. Can posing or flexing like a douche bag in the mirror help you out Justin? Being a douche bag will help. Can it? Also, we know what's about to happen. It's about to get warm outside. You're gonna go outside. You're gonna want to take your shirt off or put a bikini on and you're gonna want to look fucking sexy. You're gonna want to look sexy. And part of what I want to get laid south is being lean, fit and healthy. And a big part of that is nutrition. You got to work out, but you also got to eat right. So here's what we're doing for everybody to help them get ready for the summer. We are gonna give you the nutrition components or the guides that we offer that deal with nutrition for free. You're getting two of them to one, two for free. Well, you got the intuitive nutrition guide. You're like Santa Claus, the fasting guide for free. All you have to do is enroll in a maps bundle. Now bundles or we combine one or excuse me, two or more maps programs together and discount them by over 20 to 30% off. For example, let's say you want an incredible looking backside. Taylor, let's say you want a tushy that is sexy. A tushy for me. And we're being hypothetical here because we already know that you have one. That looks good already. But let's just say you didn't. That's creepy. He's been eyeballing you. To look really fucking good. We have something called the, we have something called the build your bundle which includes maps aesthetic, maps etabolic. There is a mod in there to teach you how to activate your glutes and build those glorious Justin looking glutes that you want. Can you imagine? I gave out my secret. Imagine if he had a Justin, but on his body. Good God, would you be a hit at the party? Or let's say you just want to be. Let's say you want everything you want at all. Well, then you do the super bundle, which includes lots of maps programs. It actually takes you through an entire year. You may as well do that. You're going to end up wanting to do all the programs. You are. Let's be honest. You get the save money. You know what I mean? Because it discounts everything 30%. It's a year of exercise program. You you pretty much can't go wrong with that anyway. We have not done you wrong. Get the intuitive guide and the fasting guide for free, or you can even do individual programs and pick out which one you want. If you want to get those programs, or if you just want more information, or if you want to look at some beautiful pictures of Taylor, are there any of your pictures of you on our website? Or am I lying right now? No, no, no. Whatever. He's 100% lying. Whatever. We still have a cool website. Go to mindpumpmedia.com. Doug, you think maybe we could do this in the jacuzzi sometime? Whoa, no. As long as we don't have the power source by the water. I feel like these are long enough. I feel like these are long enough. That's a terrible, terrible idea. But it's kind of cool. No splashing. Hot tub time machine. Yeah, it would be like hot tub time machine. I could blow dry my hair while I'm in there, make some toast. Hey, who do you think is at the most? Who's had the most worst ideas in this business? Out of all of us. In our business? In all of us. The most worst ideas? Yeah, you can count them all up. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, man. I don't know, man. Because everyone's had some. I can't think of any that I've had. So tell me if I'm not saying I have. I would say you're the winner. I think you're the winner. Well, tell me some bad ideas I've had. I can't remember all of it. Like I remember the porn ads. Yeah, that's a scene that's everybody remembers that. Yeah. You know, so that I'm just going to get rolling at the bus. No, it's not about that. I'm just saying it's the, you know, it's, I can't remember a lot of these ideas that we've had that are bad because we tend to just forget them. Well, yeah, sometimes, yeah, exactly. A lot of times they don't happen, right? Sometimes we say some stuff and then, but you even, you're even good about catching yourself sometimes. You caught yourself like once or twice last night. You know, the energy's flowing. We're all excited after an event. And it sounds like, fucking hey, we're going to do this and we're going to do that. He's like, well, you know, we'll just start with this. Logistically, yeah. I don't think we should do that. You guys, you know what it is? You know what? We should ask Taylor. Who's it? Oh gosh. Let's hear it, dude. Oh, who has the worst ideas? Yeah. Who's had the most worst ideas? You know what it's like stack them up. I mean, when you all get riled up, it's pretty bad. So it's collectively, it's not good. Every once in a while, we got some, we got some hitters. That's how it works though, right? You got to kind of exhaust all ideas, all possibilities. It's a numbers game. Yeah, numbers game. It is. Same way I got, you know, women. You know what? What? You know, it's a numbers thing. It's simple. It's math. That's straight. Yeah, you swing a lot. I actually had a swing. I actually had a buddy who literally lived by that. I had one too. I was like, no, serious. He was like, serious about it. He's like, no, I know that if I ask 10 girls, phone numbers that two of them will say yes. You know, so I just. Now, what did he do with the yeses? Always went for it. Yes. He played. Yeah. That would be a yes. What do they call that? Playing craps with your dick. Yeah. You're like, ah, it's me guys. Let's find out. God, Iria. Damn it. Oh, this one sticks. Dude, can I, can I just say that the event yesterday was surreal. It was Taylor. Good job on putting that together, man. What did you do? Good job as a as a as well. Okay, here I'll ask you what was your opinion of the event we did yesterday? Well, what did you think was going to happen? First of all, honestly, I had no I had no idea. I was I was just I wanted people to show up. I think that was the thing that I was nervous the most about is I was really excited. And then I got I started getting nervous and I'm like, oh goodness, this is an art. And it's not in our backyard. I can't like, I can't like call friends and family like for backup to show up like, hey, I need you to come. I need you to really come to this one, you know. But you're good looking Latin people. Like, wait a minute, your name's Venezuela. Your name's Venezuela. This is real seats back home, you know, but we're not. This whole bus that comes in, yeah. It'd be awesome. So I mean, when people started lining up and you could see that there was a crowd, then we had the chance going like. That was weird, dude. That was crazy. It was like my favorite part. It was surreal, man. It was it was a very strange, very strange to see because people are talking about how much we've impacted them with our podcast and when you're hearing someone, you ever have someone give you a compliment, like come up to you and just say something to your face that just blows your way like you're beautiful. Something crazy like that. Like, oh, well, I guess every day. Just becomes the norm. But no, it's a surreal experience. And if I feel like this crazy sense of responsibility when I hear that, like, whoa, I got to do a keep doing a good job or do a better job every time I hear that. It's really, really crazy. But how cool was it? You know, like what I really wanted to happen is like take the magic that happens on the show, like in the studio. Like I get to see it, right? Like just as a byproduct of working with you guys. But then for I want people to see like it's what you see is what you get, right? And I think with a lot of people, whether it's influencers or YouTubers or people that, you know, that are looked up to a lot of the time, it's this facade, right? And it's like, and then you get bummed down. It's like, no, I think part of why Mind Pump is able to have the effect that it has on people is because it's real. It's what they can connect with. And I think being able to get outside and there's that human factor, you know, like where you get to interact. And it's just like that now you can take somebody that might be on the fence and then now they're a diehard fan. Now that now there's all the way in, you know? Do you remember last night when there, if there was a moment where you saw like it, the experience happening the way you want it to happen? Yeah, you do. Because it became a podcast. That was the weird part. Like we were up there answering questions and It was when you guys started just riffing together. Talking to each other. Yeah. Yeah. And that was when it felt cause the difficulties we've had in the past, we haven't done a ton of, you know, events or we've done no events like last night, but we've done a few where we've talked to crowds or whatever. And it's difficult to create the same strange, weird chemistry that we have when we podcast with all these people watching, but it happened last night. I felt that chemistry because we started talking to each other and there were moments where I forgot there were other people in the room. And that's when we're able to kind of get into our flow and it was really fun. It was intimate. Were there being that many people there? Yeah, that's hard to do. Despite the speakers not working. Yeah, well, which I kind of, I feel like, I wanna go, Doug. Yeah. I kind of feel like that was such a, it was a blessing in disguise. I mean, I really do. I remember when I was introing it, right? When we were first talking, one of the things that I was saying, I brought up the fact the speakers weren't working, I thought, but I wanted this to be like a campfire type of setting always. You know what I'm saying? I always wanted it to be like that feel because my biggest fear of going into this, and that's not a fear, but the thing that I didn't want to happen was I didn't want it to turn into like the, you know, hundreds of seminars that I've run in my life where I stand up and I talk. And we can easily go into that mode. Oh, easily. I mean, easily. But it bores the shit out of me. Oh, big time. You know what I'm saying? Like it's... Plus, I mean, we've got, you know, good information and stuff. I don't think we're seminar material, you know what I mean? If I'm watching a seminar, like I wanna listen to like Dom Diagostino or something like that, you know what I mean? Like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, current research and all the bullet points. Plus, if you listen to like, you know, more than, you know, 50 of our episodes, what are we gonna talk about in a seminar? You know what I mean? Talk about fasting, fat loss, whatever, you know? Well, that's why I think this dynamic was so awesome and unique because it was our people. Like, we finally got to speak in front of people who've listened to us over the years and appreciate our content. And you could totally hear that in the questions they're asking us. Oh, did you hear it when I asked? When I, for the first time I asked, they said, you know, how many, how many of you guys listened to mine, but they laughed at me. Like I got like a chuckle, I got like a chuckle and then everybody raised their hand. Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, asshole, I drove four hours over here to see you. Like, I don't listen to the show. Like, of course, right? So it was like, okay, this is cool. Like this is a- No, it was cool. We get, we, they came in, they got free beer. So we were giving out beer and wine. Yeah, that was great. What was the name of the wine? Free public. Oh yeah. Free public wine. Some good candy wine. 25% off, Viori, which by the way, Viori hooked it up. They gave us outfits and their shit is, I mean, it's amazing. It's the quality is ridiculous, but everybody there got a discount on Viori clothing. We gave away a free program to everybody in the room. That was awesome. That was Adam's idea. And I thought that was a great idea. That was awesome. Doug wasn't aware of it. He was like, whoa. Wait a minute, I puckered a little, I'm sorry. Yeah, fuck her up. No, I thought that, I thought that set the tone, man. It was a kind of program. Once I felt he was like all the fans, then it was like, okay, cool. Now we can hook everybody up. Now we're all friends. You're no longer fans. Now let's sit at a campfire. Let's chop it up and talk about all this shit. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was really cool. And it's a great brand to partner with. Good people that were there. The owner showed up and, you know, hung out with us a little bit and the staff was awesome. Oh, Jonah's wife are so cool, man. Dude, that company's on like the cutting edge of the style, the trends, you can feel it. You can see it in the clothing. They're about to take over, man. There really hasn't been good gear like that for men, specifically. I can't even think of the last time I've known a brand that has taken that kind of quality to men's clothing. You see that with women's clothing all the time, but. Well, everybody that loves Lulu, right, knows that it's a bad ass brand too. But it's so, yeah, it's so good. And they offer men stuff, but they just are not, it's an afterthought, though. Yeah, and it feels like an afterthought when you shop there, where when you shop here, it's not like that at all, dude. No, no, no. What I was telling a lot of, you know, we had a chance to mingle with people afterwards. And how cool is it? We're two young brands, right? We're probably each three years into our respective journeys can partner up. And everybody that is a Vori customer and supports Vori, they should be listening to Mind Pump. Everybody listening to Mind Pump should be wearing Vori. Yeah, yeah, man. It's just like, we can grow together in our respective spaces and it becomes a win-win, which is super neat. Bro, you have a very romantic voice on the podcast. He makes love to the mic a little bit, doesn't he? He's got that. What did you call him, Super Swavo? It's Super Swavo. Yeah, like he, see, everybody turns it on a little. It's funny to talk a little bit different. You're not, that's just, wow. No, you do. It's really into that. You do, no, I love it. Oh, it was excellent. What you said was excellent. Oh, thank you. But you get all that, yeah. It's just funny. You make people accommodate you. I love the mic, man. It makes me love to this thing. Bro, I thought. I want to tell you how it went down. Bro, there was a guy. Listen, girl. Hey, girl. Listen here. Hey, girl. It's like, he turns his R&B, you know. Yeah, girl. Oh, god. I'm going to tell you a little story. It's like, you know, I got a little confused last night because while we're there at the end, we're taking pictures with people, high-fiving people. People are asking us more questions. We're mingling and hanging out. And there was a dude in there that was kind of acting like, almost like he was a bouncer and he would come up to be like, Taylor says we need to cut a little short. Captain Surveysa. Captain Surveysa. Oh, that was my homie. And I'm like, is this, I'm like, is he related to Taylor? Because he kept like, who was that guy, dude? I didn't, I didn't know how many beers all night. How many, yeah, how many drinks he may have had. Yeah, I think he's, yeah, I think he was the only one that was really taking advantage of the free alcohol. Yeah, most, because we did, and we hooked it up. Everybody had free drinks, you know, all night long. And I think that some people really took advantage of it. He was a nice guy, though, if he's listening right now. Oh, no, no. I forgot your name, but we called you Captain Surveysa. So yeah, shout out to him. You're immortalized as Captain Surveysa. That's your nickname. That means we like you. Yeah, badass. And then, and then Adam snuck off with a couple of fans out the, what did you guys do? Would you go outside with a couple of fans? You know, there's, you know, it was really funny, dude, that I had this, you know, out-of-body experience. I was, I literally saw myself as like a 16 year old boy. Oh, I think you're so, you're like floating. No, no, these guys got me so high, dude. I don't want to kiss you ever. Yeah, no, I was, you know. So you went out and smoked a joint with these dudes? Well, you know, first of all, you're an asshole because you didn't invite us. I know, thanks a lot. Yeah, whatever. I know, it's fine. I was totally feeding my own ego, dude. I really was. And I saw it, you know, it was really fun. It was really fun. You let it happen. Yeah, I just let it happen. I was like, oh, this is gonna feel good. He'll let me feed this ego for a minute. He was like, tell me how cool I am real quick, right? So we, we did. And then I was, there's, we were sitting out there for, I don't know how long we were out there for. So would you just go out to their car? And there was a three, there was a few. Yeah, we were, we were around the corner and stuff. We didn't want to be around the main post or the public street or what that. So we just walked around the corner and we were just, and the guys, the boys were cool, man. And they were just, we, they wanted to ask questions about the cannabis industry. And we, we started kind of going down that path. And I just, I don't talk about that much in depth about that as I did with these three guys. So they got to hear a lot of stuff that I've never shared on the podcast or no, not a lot of people even know. It's so red. Yeah. And so it was cool. I had a really good time. And I was just chatty, Cathy, rambling like crazy, you know? And then the phone was vibrating and it kind of startled me and I saw all the missed calls from all of you guys. I was like, oh, shit. I was like, we got to go back over. I thought you got kidnapped. Oh, shit. Some fans stole that. No, I mean, shit. We had a couple of times Taylor had walked up to me and he's like, dude, we were already an hour beyond what we were supposed to be in here. And then he'd come back to me. He's like, bro, we're an hour and a half past what we said we were. He's like, dude, it's two hours past. I don't want to end it, man. We have to do, and I'm like, gotta wrap it up. And I remember him saying that to me the first time and I kind of looked at like how many people were still waiting for each of you like in line and how many people are waiting still to talk to me. And I go, okay, I don't want to like fucking leave that many people hanging, right? Let me get through a majority of these. And so I'm looking and I'm going, okay, I can do that in like 20 minutes or so. I'm kind of like trying to write. But then I realized like it never stopped. Yeah. Yeah, it never stopped because that was the weird part. It's like you start a conversation with somebody and you really get into that conversation with them. And then it's like, but there's this weird like time where you're like, well, I guess I got to talk, you know, we got to wrap this up somehow. And then the next person comes and starts a whole new conversation and it just like kept happening and happening. It was, it was a really weird kind of thing that like went on. It was cool though. What were some of the top things that people were asking you afterwards? I answered a lot. I was telling Katrina just, I was just talking to her, catching her up. And, you know, I didn't answer a single fitness question. I know that nobody asked me. I didn't have to break out my macro, my macro brain and start talking shit like that. I mean, I maybe a couple, I had a couple like some common theme stuff or, you know, trainers that were, you know, looking to start their own business. I got a lot of them. Yes, there's a lot of, but then probably the next most popular thing was, you know, I talked to a lot of couples and relationship and communication. Kat, we don't... Yeah, I had a few of those relationship questions. Mainly for me, it was the coming out of your shell type questions. I was like, look at the closet. Because I'm an expert. I mean, I could come out of the closet, sharp. Dressed to the nines. You would run that industry. Did you have a lot of kids that were coming up to you talking about how they were, you know, nervous because I didn't get much of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting that you got that. Probably the majority, which was really cool because I, you know, they obviously, like everybody has something they relate to each of us, you know, individually on. And I think that was one of them. Yeah. That people sort of were drawn to me for that aspect of it because obviously I'm very, you know, transparent about how uncomfortable, you know, everything was in the beginning and how this has been such a process for me of growth. And it's just great to see that, like, that resonated, you know, with some people. I was really stoked on that. That's awesome. I got, I had like trainers asking me questions. I had people asking sales questions, like how to, how to present their, you know, their, their business better or how to sell their product better. And then I had people come up to me and talk to me about politics, which was really fucking fascinating. I got some deep conversations about markets and economics and, you know, the concepts of liberty and all that kind of stuff, which was really cool because those are, I mean, those are conversations that I can have for hours because I love to speculate on them and talk about the philosophies and the histories of them. Are there any conversations that you can't have for hours? Yeah, yeah, I don't think I don't think it works. Yeah, you shut that down quick. I'll segway that shit real quick. No, my favorite is the quarterback is a lot like is it is a tips, is a tips to spout off him, you know, information. Yeah, he's got facts. He does. He does. Yeah. How about them warriors? You have just enough when it went in again. I don't know what you think about that. You see a jersey name and then you just like that Draymond kid doing pretty well. How do you think about that? He's really draining out there. It plays hard guys. It plays hard for a, for a new player. He does a good job. Yeah, yeah. I was a, that was the ball really well. I was a total guest. Would you, would you guys think of the, the Organifi tour today? Oh, you know, this was cool. This is the first time we get to meet Drew in person, right? We've interviewed him and I was really excited to one, see what he was going to be like, because I think talking to someone via Skype is one thing. But when we get to meet somebody, I get to look you in the eyes. Like I feel like he seems like a cool dude. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very good, dude. Man, I, a good, I mean, big heart. You could tell that he's got a hell of a past. He's got a hell of a story. I wish he told his story better. I think he's got a lot in there that and I try to get, dig in a couple of times. They're like, see if I could get him to like release it. And he did little bits of it in the episode. I mean, I think it'll be a good episode still, but I wish you would have elaborated. It was a good energy when we walked in there. It was cool to walk into the business because we've walked into other large supplement companies and, you know, you walk in and you see 30 employees, 40 employees, you start talking to people. And, you know, we've all been in successful businesses and you can, you can start to get a sense of, of a business when you walk in and start to meet people. And we've been in other companies. We walk in, there's 20, 30, 40, 50 employees. You start talking to people. Nobody fucking knows what they're supposed to do. You ask people like, oh, what do you do here? Oh, I, I, I managed this a little bit. And you don't, you don't get that, that feeling that everybody's like driving towards this common goal. Whereas when we walk into Organifi, there's charts on the wall, there's statistics. People are standing to be on the phone. Bees, trophies. People are super like into it. They all know it. And you've, you can feel the energy in there. And you can see that they're being effective. They're being very efficient and effective. Yeah. Everybody's working towards the same objective. And you can see how they all, it's very transparent, the work that's going on. So whoever's doing, making moves, like you're going to see it real time. And I think that that's brilliant. You know, it just brings everybody together and it makes it a competitive environment. I love that environment. Tell you, you said you, when you were a startup, you said it looked kind of like that too, huh? Yeah. It's, it's, you can tell the energy of a sales floor when you walk in there. And it seemed like they were having fun, which is really cool. That's a good sign of good culture. Yeah. Yeah. Sales is an interesting, you have to have a certain culture in sales in order to be, I mean, I could recall, I'm sure Adam, you the same thing, and Justin too, when the energy is good, sales improve. It's different than other aspects of the business. You know, like if you're, if you're a program or engineer, you just kind of want to quiet, organize clean environment and people and that's it. But when it comes to sales and probably marketing too, it's like this, you want almost want to feel like you're on a, on a team and everybody's doing something together and it's motivating and it's, there's lots of emotion. Sales involves lots of emotion. You need to have lots of emotion. You just feel it when you walk into a room and it's very interesting that it's like that with sales and not so much another, other aspects of business. Do you believe that we can transfer emotion? Oh, of course. Right. You've got those mirror neurons. You see someone. Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, that's exactly why it is. That's why it's so important. It's so important you have that culture if you're going to be really, really successful because people can feel it. People can feel, I don't care how badass your product is or how cool your brand is. Like if the vibe isn't right or the culture isn't right. Like, I don't know. I think it's very obvious when I walk into a business and I see that and feel that, you know, I just, I definitely felt that there. I mean, look how, how, how smart is Drew too? I love that too. Talking to a guy that successful who like openly is like, no, I have no business being the CEO. Yeah. You know, like that's fucking somebody else's job. So self aware. Yeah. And, and, you know, like to do that, that's real complex. It takes a lot of ego too. You know, like letting go of things like that. Understanding your strengths and somebody else that's, you know, within your company that you spot and you're like, wow, no, I know he would do an excellent job and I'm going to go ahead and step down. Like that takes a lot of balls. That's a leader. Yeah. That's a real leadership is, you know, fake leadership is the guy or girl who thinks that they're the best at everything. A true leader is the one that identifies the people on their team who are better than they are at certain things and places them in the right position so that they succeed and so that the leader succeeds or the company succeeds. These are the, these are the attributes about him that I really liked with this. That's what was drawn to me. Like the woo woo stuff. I don't give a shit about all that stuff I'm watching. I don't know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just not a fan. I mean, I'm a fan of people. You don't want to start playing that big drum he's talking about. No, yeah. No, no, I'm just not, I've just never been, but I love, I love people. I can see how I'm doing that though. I love people that do, you know what I'm saying? But it's just like, to me sometimes what it does, and it's again, like it's, it reminds me of a religion. I think there's so much positive to say about it. And I think it's important for people to have it. But I think- People are searching, man. Yeah, I know. People are searching. I know. Look, when you're a guy like him, think about it this way. 37 year old, he's 37, he's 37 year old. He's made a shit ton of money for a long time before Organifi. He was in mortgages. He did, what was the other thing he did? Debt consolidation. Debt consolidation. He made a shit ton of money. Organifi is obviously making a shit ton of money. He's a good looking guy. He's fit, right? So he's kind of got everything he, sorry about that guys, he's got everything he's supposed to have or whatever. I know you've done it. When you get everything you think you want and you finally get it, and then you realize that's not what I wanted, where do you go from there? Imagine that, imagine that for a second. Like everything you fucking work your ass off and you dream of, and then you finally get it and you're there and you're like, oh, this is not fulfilling at all. So I kind of, that kind of happened to me. Really? So when I was doing, when I was doing the shoe thing, I thought success was just owning my own time and just having the freedom to do what I wanted when I wanted. And long story short, I got to that point, I wasn't making like crazy money, but more money than I had been making. And then I just wanted to go to the beach every day. I thought that was like, what the entrepreneurs do is like to get rich and then you just chill at the beach. Was this before, was this before or when you started growing your hair out? This was way before. Oh, okay. This was before the luscious locks. Luscious locks. This is the start. Because I feel like that all goes together. You know, you start with going to the beach every day and then you wear the same pants. It's so relaxed and you don't waste your time putting shoes on anymore. You know what I'm saying? This is how this all starts. So you got to, you got to share about the green juice. Taylor's been telling me since he's been drinking the green juice, he said his hair is all fucking more shiny and all that stuff. How crazy is that? I mean, look at it. Yeah. So you notice a difference in your hair because you've been taking the green juice. I love this. Absolutely. It wouldn't shine as much as it does. It wouldn't, you know, like it flares out a little bit more. Anyway, so what happened? You felt the need to throw a commercial in the commercial. Jesus, bro. Our salesmen are tripled for some shit like that. You got inspired by those numbers. Hey, listen. I'm gonna fucking sell, sell, sell, sell. You're gonna sell. I sell, sell, sell, sell. If we weren't talking about organic by now, let me throw another commercial right in the middle of the commercial. We just did lions, you know. Organified. Inception. So listen, you went to the beach every day, what the fuck, you didn't want to happen? Nobody can go to the beach with you. Yeah, on a Tuesday. On a Tuesday. Dude, yeah. I'm like, hey, you want to go to the beach? You want to go to lunch? You want to go hang out? You want to go do something? Nobody ever said, I got work, man. I got work, bro. And I'm like, well, this fucking sucks, you know? Like, this is terrible. Then you realize, just like. You can go to lunch with guys like me. That's how we met. Well, I know. That's what we did do. Is it funny? That's exactly why we went to lunch. I'm like, this fucking kid's 20-something years old. He's like, 23 years old. I was like, I knew what I did. Like, you know, I was selling drugs at that time. So of course, I had to make the freedom so I could do whatever the fuck I wanted to when I wanted to. This guy, I'm like, what's he doing? I know he's a good kid. He ain't selling drugs. He's not doing something like that. No, I just get bored. And then there's no point to it. And it's like, whatever. Now, what does that feeling feel like? Because I think a lot of people, yeah. And then what's worse is you thought it was going to be so much better than it actually is or was. And so you grind, you work your ass off, you make a lot of sacrifices to kind of get to where you think you want to be or what success is to you. And I'd put all my eggs in that basket, and it was just, it was terrible. It was sad. Yeah, it was the worst part. Did you feel depressed? Did it make you feel? Absolutely. Really? Yeah. Really? Because you had nothing to strive for. No. I mean, that was at a time like, how the marriage thing was. Right. That's right. You always forget that. You know, I do too. And then it's like, how about that? So that happened. The business was doing better than it had ever been doing. And then I'm just like, I should be happy, but I'm not. Maybe not for that other part. But so that's when I was like, oh, you got it. So what conclusion did you come to from that? Were you re-evaluate what it means to you to feel fulfilled? Yeah, I think it took me a long time to try to figure out like what my purpose was. What is it now? I don't know. I just want to do cool shit with cool people. And you know, I think we're doing that. Like last night, I think it was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. So you like hanging out with us? Yeah, it's cool. I feel cool now. Yeah, man. That's like the validation. I feel like Taylor wants to hang out with me. You know what I mean? I'm good. I think he's kind of cool. He's finally rubbing off on you a little bit. You think he's rubbing off on you a little bit? Making me cooler? No, that's impossible. I'm an old dog, dude. Let me tell you something right now. And I'm extremely confident with myself. Those socks, dude. These socks? Oh, no, I've been doing that for a while, bro. I know. I'm just saying. Yeah. And that was an accident to be honest with you. Well, it worked out in your face. Hey, look, bro. Every once in a while, every once in a while, a broken clock is going. You know what I mean? What do they say? A broken clock is right twice a day. Yeah, it was an accident with the sock. But so for you meaning for you, you're just like, I just want to feel fulfilled with what I'm doing. And it's not necessarily the money or the flexibility of my hours. It's just feeling a purpose behind what I'm doing. Yeah, I think having an impact matters. Do you think you're finding that through Mind Pump right now? Absolutely. Yeah. Now, do you think there's been? Cool, we were going to give you a raise, but we don't need to know. It's just you're feeling so good. We'll go ahead and get that back. Looks like he's legs in here. You were sweating it there earlier. Yeah. Do you remember? You know, it's been a really fun thing to do this with you. And to be honest, I'm trying to think if I've ever done this any other time in my life and business where I've allowed someone just to kind of come in and almost create their position or what they're going to do. You know, like I knew that I was really rolling the dice with even considering that because it's just like that never works out, right? That rarely ever works out. At least I've never seen it really happen. But I really felt confident with your understanding of what we were trying to create and build and what your expertise and your talents are. And I really felt like I knew that once you felt the brand and really fully understood it, I knew what you got into the lingo and the way we all interact. It's taken a while, though. Right. You know, like it, you know, I think. You said like a year, didn't you? Yeah, I've shared that with you more recently where it's like I finally feel like I'm starting to get a hang of all this stuff and understand the tone in the voice in which the brand speaks. And that's really important. And then then that kind of then you can kind of build things out from there. And I think we're we're headed in the right direction as far as doing these live events. You know, I always take pride in doing things that I think others aren't in kind of leading the pack and trying to set the set the tone and set the bar. And I think we're I think we're on our way. Well, I think I mean, I feel like I'm starting to see that now. I knew that we would be doing that. I knew that we were already kind of doing that. I mean, even just the brand and the message itself is counter, you know, the culture. I mean, the culture and fitness is not tell the truth about everything like that. It's, you know, take a little bit of science, find a way to either scare people into buying something or, you know, attach some sort of reoccurring supplement deal on somebody. So I really feel like that's been the, you know, the message in our space for a long time. So we've been disrupting that since day one, but I really I think it's we're finally starting to make the waves. Yeah, I can see my I can see our peers and I can see the way they're reacting. Dude, it's that's that's when you and that that took a long time. You know, I remember massive compliment. Yeah, it's it's it is it's really it's very, very cool to see. And it's what we ultimately wanted, right? Yeah, exactly. We want we just want people to to kind of understand there's a different way to do things. And and I think that, you know, we don't have to be cool all the time and just show the best. You know, we can we can be real with people and humanize this experience and get, you know, get on another level with people so it's more relatable. I just feel like it hasn't been relatable for your average person and for so long. And it's been so frustrating because now you get them as personal trainers, we get just anybody coming in and it's it's so fucking intimidating because everybody puts out this superhero shit. I think that's why you guys have been able to build so much trust. Yeah, right. Yeah, you know, it's it's funny because it's from a business standpoint, you know, what an opportunity to look at an industry and be like, OK, everybody's lying. All I have to do is tell the truth. It's like radical honesty, you know, like, like that's so radical. I want last I want last night what I said, you know, say because I knew that it was so easy, bro. I knew it, you know, it's all did when you walked in. It was like, oh, wow, really? Yeah, it's so fucking weird. Think about that for a second. How weird is that the people are like, thank you so much for not lying. That's a low standard, by the way, you know what I mean? We're not like let's say let's be honest. That's the truth right of the success is we ain't that good. It's just really on. We're the tallest midget right now. You know what I'm saying? Think about that, right? Like, you know, people are people are just getting bullshitted left and right and we didn't invent anything. You know, we just came in and told the truth. Yeah, and people are getting blown away by the truth. That's weird. Yeah, that's weird. Well, so we show me predators out there. The funny thing is we kind of have to thank the industry for being full of shit because it would have said well, I also think that's why we don't hate. That's why we still I mean, we have friends that that, you know, how you how you make your money and how you do things is up to you. That's your choice. You know what I'm saying? How you I'm not going to judge anybody that's on them, but if you're going to leave it that wide open that all you got to do is come in and tell the truth and it's going to be that fucking easy like shame on you for not seeing or not having the balls to do that because that's the thing that that's what I you have to know. That's what kept everybody in the past. I think it's less. I think it's less of a evil thing and more of a scared thing. Well, yeah, you're not going to see return from it. Yeah, for a long time. There's a lot of risk and that's what we experienced. We did not see like any like major growth financially with that message. It was like nobody wasn't the sex. Yeah, the marketing on online with like our message is not getting clicked through. Right. Right. You know, the in the land of lies, really say in the land of lies telling the truth is is like rebellion, I think, or, you know, it's it's radical. It's you're the crazy one because you're telling the truth and the and the and when things go really bad in society or in an industry, they don't start off massively bad. The way they start, the way they start off is with little lies and those little lies get bigger and bigger. People start to buy in and so what happens is because here's a deal. Most of the people in the fitness industry that are full of shit. They know they're full of shit. A lot of them. Some people think I'll know they're ignorant. They believe in what they know. They know they're full of shit. Yeah. In fact, the more successful they are, they more they know, they more they know and they buy into their own shit because you start to live this lie, live this lie, say more and more lies about food intake, about training, about supplementation, about whatever, about Photoshop, this and here's a picture of me and my fucking bullshit car that I rented or whatever. You know, every on my Instagram or whatever and you keep doing that and it just grows and it becomes this monster and then when you're in the industry, that's just the way it is. You know what I mean? And it's hard to get out of that because you're the fucking weirdo for doing so. It reminds me of Lance Armstrong when they asked him about, you know, PEDs and everything and he he would just get so overly aggressively defensive about it because he believed he had to like literally believe his own lies at that point. And he was like, you know, he would be litigious about it, too. If somebody said otherwise, it was like that was the level and I feel like that's a lot of the level of that, you know, the massive money and massive companies have been built off of these lies. So it's not like this isn't something that the people are really willing to slice right through and have something completely counter to that because there's no money in that. Yeah, I mean, I know I have a lot of empathy for the people. I can see how very easily. I mean, there was many times that like the decisions that I mean, bootcamp. So is an example of this for me, you know, I knew damn well like that was a good example. This is part of why I stopped doing bootcamps was I mean, I built up a very successful bootcamp business but coming from someone who's did a lot of private training before, I realized quickly that I really wasn't helping these people and I could, you know, and the way I work is that pushed me to be better and to try to make it to try to try and make it. And I think that I like to think that I did a pretty fucking good job with the people that I had and the groups that I had, but I really wasn't really helping them long term. At least I didn't feel that way, you know. So I had that. So you have a lot of inner struggle there. But yet I'm rapidly building this business. It's growing and I barely even throttling down on it. I knew that I could put my energy in there and really crank it and you know, something that you learn as you get older, hopefully that you learn as you get older. And I think we've all learned this lesson is that, you know, although lying can get you more immediate gratification, maybe even bring you immediate success, the reality is that being honest will actually more often than not give you long term fulfilling success. And when I say success, I don't just mean money. I mean, what are the real true definition of successes? I mean, like Taylor was saying, you made a bunch of money. You achieve what you thought was success, but did you were you successful? No, because there's so many parameters that can define what your success is. And what I think what you have to imagine is that, you know, your life is like a it's like a limitless sea of potentials. There's a million different directions you can go and every decision you make along the way determines where the direction of your arrow goes or where the direction of your life goes. And you have to ask yourself if I lie a lot or if I tell the truth a lot, or at least I don't lie. What are the odds that the direction I'm going it's going to end up in a way that's going to place me in a position where I'm going to feel fulfilled and achieve success. And the odds are you have to believe that the odds are that if you don't lie and you tell the truth, you're probably the odds are probably higher that you're going to end up in a better position. So, and that's the that's the whole myth, the whole illusion of, you know, of bullshitting because there's an illusion out there that if I lie, if I cheat, if I steal, if I photoshop, if I, you know, make all these outlandish claims that I'm going to be more successful and make more money and be happier as a result. And that's an illusion. It's actually not true at all. It's actually the opposite of truth. And so I think if you go down that path and it can be hard because it's tempting, it is very tempting to go the other direction. You got to think of the other side of the primal side of you that's fighting for survival, right? And trying to live and provide for your family. And, you know, that's how that's the quickest, the easiest way to make money when you're in the fitness base. And it's tough. It's tough to not do that, right? Dude, it requires humility, too, because if you're a fitness expert and somebody asks you a fitness question and you don't know the fucking answer, you know, your ego needs to be able to be okay with saying, I don't know. And most people don't like to say that, especially when you're being placed in a position of power or authority. It's like a child asking a parent a question and the parent knowing that they don't know the answer. And you did, what do you tell your kid? They're looking up to your dad or whatever. Someone asked you a question about fitness and you're a fitness professional. You don't know the answer. Most people make some shit up and that's a tough thing. It's a very difficult thing to do to say, I don't know. But the funny thing is this way more power in it. We've already proven that, like, you know, being able to, you know, be real. You actually make yourself a little bit more invincible, don't you? I mean, if I make a mistake, you know, if we make a mistake, we've already shown that we can make mistakes and we're human and we're totally more like the average person than not, then you're kind of forgiven. But you paint that illusion of having all the answers and man, when it comes out that you're not perfect because it will, I think most of the time will come out. Look, what happened to shreds? Remember what happened with shreds when the photo shopping? I mean, if they just didn't do that and if they just were a little bit more transparent, they wouldn't have been damaged by anything like that. Isn't that crazy? That's a good example too of like, that's a huge thing that happened for them that didn't probably make that much more of a difference by doing that. Sure, it probably sold some more supplements because you could show that it was more extreme results, but by how much you know what percentage more were you were you risking just to make a couple more bucks, you know, and this is why I mean there's there are some supplement companies that do it right where they don't make those ridiculous claims or whatever. Mike Matthews, his company is a great example. If you watch his commercials on, I sometimes he's targeting me for whatever reason I fall in this category of his sales. He's the master that fucker has got a retargeted our audience and he is nice. It's hilarious and he follows me around everywhere I go. He fucking Legion everywhere, but you can't hate on the guy. But anyway, you watch his videos and you'll say things like, look, supplements aren't going to aren't miracle pills and what you need to do is eat right and exercise, right? But if you do take supplements, here's things and I like that he's being honest and it's funny because businesses like his are growing and the other ones are starting to fall. You're starting to see that trend now start to become more popular. It's kind of cool. I don't know. It's interesting. I wonder what the future of this industry is. Well, you know what the big thing is in our space too with the is the competitions like that's how a lot of these, you know, Instagram fitness models do is they build this huge following up and then they do these eight week challenges and everybody puts money in the pot, you know, and you got if you got think about it, you have 100,000 followers. Some of these people have a million followers, right? Got 100,000 followers. You just need 1% of those people to spend $300 on a chance to win $5,000. It's the lottery they play the lottery game with with people and it's it's then they all get handed out these cookie cutter diets and programs and it's follow follow this for eight weeks and it's totally based off of their aesthetic change and, you know, they make a fuck. And man, let me tell you something right now and just so people understand this too like that. There's a lot of fucking money in that. Oh my god. I know people that do it and it's a huge huge because it it caters to that false motivation that people get from being in a competition or from signing up for something in 30 days. I'm gonna get in a really fast shape or whatever and it kind of caters that and I get it and I think if you do it right, there may be some some utility in it. But it's I've been trying to wrap my brain around how to do it the right way. 100%. I mean, I'm not stupid. I see there's a lot of revenue potential there and how could we do this in a way that it would help and benefit people that also not be making it like by all means necessary, right? You know, like if that that tends to be the mentality that goes into these competitions that I have the biggest problem with because who knows like who knows who's like just starving themselves and like just going through this process just to like get to some kind of an end where it's like they show, you know, whatever looks like a dramatic transformation. For sure. That's happening. You just throw money on you throw money on a challenge and tell people that in one of the options is I can starve my body and I mean you see it in competing. They do that to get up on stage all the time. I have a little buddy that entered into one of those weight loss competitions and the prize was it was huge. It was like 30,000. It was ridiculous like $30,000. Oh, wow. And yeah, because he did it with a bunch of workers or something. Yeah. Wealthy friends and they all put like a thousand dollars or something like that in there and it was about total weight loss. So who could lose the most weight? So this motherfucker, very smart dude, he knew how to game the system. So what do you think he did before the way? I read it again. Before the way and he tried. He packed on some mass. He he was drinking like like shot glasses of soy sauce to get as much sodium in his body as possible, eating hella starches, bloating himself up, constipating himself so that he gained like 10 or 12 pounds before, you know, the day before the way and weighs in then to the day before the you know the yeah, the day before the way and at the end he's in the sauna. He's dropping because you can. If you're a big dude, you know, you could drop like 15 pounds in a day. This is this is anyone. This is what happened there. You know, this is what happened after the first season of Biggest Loser. After the first season of Biggest Loser from then on out, people game the system. They figured out the very first season. I actually enjoyed that season because I felt like it was they were testing it. Let's see how this works out. And it went gangbusters. Everybody was watching it like crazy. And so of course they bring the second season back. And now the second season brought all the smart people that watched it and go like, Oh, well, I'm sure the producers, you know, behind the scenes get involved because they know a lot of those tricks, but they're like, well, it's going to make for better TV more dramatic. Who gives a shot of these people? Of course. Of course. I don't give a shit about it. You know, it's part of what we're what we're starting to witness and fitness is I think part or part of a larger phenomena that's starting to happen. And I think it's fueled, you know, actually, I'll say with with certainty, it's fueled by the ease of access to information because you're seeing I just read an article article. I shared it with you guys on the intellectual dark web. Articable article. That's a new one. Yeah. Adam taught me that. Hey, I believe I believe you're rubbing off. I'm getting his fucking tummy. I'm getting his tummy. He's getting Adam's upstairs. Right. Adam just got out of the bathroom right. He's coming downstairs and he goes. He didn't. He wasn't being an ass or anything. He asked me a question. He goes, Sal, do you think it's possible? Really? He tried to add. He, you know, he positioned it like a question. Sal, do you think it's possible? It was a question when people hang out together that they start to share each other's microbiome like all the same. We're all the same here. You're doing and I know why he's asking because he's got the shits right now. He thinks it's my fault. It's your fault. He thinks the inherited it is, dude. I never had a tough dude. I couldn't even have half of that. I couldn't have. I wanted that freaking gelato cappuccino drink. So bad. That would give you diarrhea. Yeah, it's because of my. It's my gut bacteria, dude. Sounds tonic. Couldn't even handle half of it, man. I was in the up there, bro. Anyway, what I was gonna say is that so that article on the Intellectual Dark Web talks about these, the popularity and the ground swell of support for these controversial truth speaking. And I say truth and quotations because what I mean by that is these are people who are not afraid to talk about the controversy and to seek out what the objective part of the group is there's they're on opposing sides, right? Oh yeah, there's there's people who are on the political right, people on the political left. There's people who argue for the existence of God. There's atheists, you know, like Sam Harris is on there. Jordan Peterson's on their Ben Shapiro. There's people on the left and they're part of this movement and the funny and the thing in this article was talking about the reason why this movement is growing is because in the past, if you attack these controversial issues and ask questions that were probably un popular or at least discuss them that you wouldn't get in the airtime on mainstream TV, like nobody was going to get you if you're if you're if your opinion wasn't considered popular, but and even if you've made a good point or whatever you weren't going to get on a talk show, you just weren't because it wasn't popular. But now you've got, you know, new media, Joe Rogan and, you know, other podcasts and social media that is reaching way more people and these people have massive followings and I think what's happening is you're feeling this. I'm starting to feel this third because I'm on the Internet a lot and I'm on forums a lot and I've been saying this for a long time now that this truth kind of objective truth movement is starting to grow and people are starting to question common knowledge and I think it's it's in in good ways in the sense that there's always are, you know, angry people arguing and yelling or whatever online online, but I'm getting more of the like, let's have an intellectual discussion about abortion. Like that is a very touchy subject, but people are touching subjects like that, like there were never were before. It's funny at the event last night, I had people coming up to me asking me, you know, they said to me things like there's so much information online and so much science and so much, you know, so many so many articles supporting different opinions, like, how do I know where to find the right information? And so what I said to them was, I said, OK, here's what you do. Find a a good article with maybe some references citing, you know, backing up their argument for a particular controversial topic, read that article and be open minded. Try to understand the the point of view of the article and then find an article that is equally as well written with a lot of references that is the opposite that has the opposite position and read both of them and be as open minded as you possibly can with both sides and then see where you are from there. And I think more people are starting to do that and you're starting to see now people want more realism. It's good because they're going to have to. Yeah, you have to exactly. Yeah, you have to. You're called being rational. Well, it's just a reason we're moving into this world where we're able to market to people so effectively like it was. It's never been like this, dude. Yeah, I mean, it's just like you're mentioning like how, you know, Mike's following you around all over the place. Like you can't get you. I sometimes I trip out like, like, did I search this or did I just say it out loud? And it all said, now it's being marketed to me like I see shit like that. I'm like, damn, dude, like so because of that, we're going to be getting a lot of bias information, the shit that you're always liking the shit you're always looking at all the time. So it's going to be rare you get fed something that is the counter to your beliefs. So it's going to become necessary that you seek out opposing views. Well, here's the best part. The best part of it is that marketing like all industries because of technology is becoming massively decentralized. And what I mean by that is, of course, there are companies that market that have a lot of power. However, consumers and I talk about when I talk about consumers, I don't just mean buying products. I mean, consuming anything you consume information, products, opinions, whatever social media, anything that you consume, consumers are looking more towards the opinions of average, regular people than they are now versus marketers. And what I mean by that is, for example, we'll talk about the supplement industry because that's fitness ratings and reviews, ratings and reviews. It's so powerful. Read an article. How often do you now read the comments to that article every fucking time? Almost every time you read. I do. I always read an article and I read the comments. I want to hear what other people have to say about that article. You pick you pick your movies that way, right? Isn't that interesting now? Yeah, you do see like how you used to just sell it with sex or somebody that was like smoking hot and then they're holding whatever product it was. And now it's like, well, what does the product do? Like, who's used it? Like, what, like, how can I trust this product? And I feel like that's such a great direction that we're going. So, you know, that sort of change I'm excited about, for sure. Yeah, so what we're seeing now more is you're starting to like again, supplements in the past, the way I would recommend supplements to people is they'd say go with the reputable brand. Now, what the fuck does that mean? Oh, brands that have been around a while that seem to be big. Right, that market really well. Yeah, right. Terrible advice. You know what people do now is they go on Amazon or whatever and they look at the ratings and then they read the reviews and they don't give a fuck what the brand is anymore with supplements. That's how I tend to purchase things now. If I want to get a fucking new tool, if I want to get something for my car or something for the house, I don't really care about the brand and the reviews. Do you remember how far back that you can rethink of an example of that? Like, I remember, for example, when like Kia hit the market over here and I remember thinking like, what a fucking just ugly ass car, do you know what I'm saying, right? Like, want to be Mercedes like, I just I just I laughed at the first year like hit the market over here. And I and I remember not being a fan at all. But I also remember, you know, after it had been here for five, 10 years and had been around for a while, all of a sudden and they all their cars came with a guaranteed I believe they're one of the first to do the 100,000 mile guarantee on their vehicles and their vehicles were super cheap in comparison to cheap. Yes, super well built. Yes, built well and super cheap. And they just outperform the next thing you knew that their reviews were smashing all the cars dude. And now they're they're top. Dude, what are you? OK, so the number one thing in business forever, forever. Any more any business owner will tell you this any marketer will tell you even if you go back a hundred years. OK, the number one thing is word of mouth always. There's nothing more powerful than word of mouth and what technology is done is take word of mouth and put it on fucking super steroids. That's all it's done. Now you have word of mouth, but you have a lot of people that you can hear. These are a huge pool of individuals who are giving things, ratings and reviews and it's creating systems like Uber Air BnB and all these other businesses where you don't need any of you don't need anything else. I don't give a fuck what rating the restaurant. You know when you go in a restaurant, you see that stupid this gets an A from the city. Nobody do you give a fuck about that? The better business beer. Nobody gives a shit about that. I'm a look at Yelp. You know what I mean? I'm going to look and see how many people have eaten here. The other part of that is it's also revealing just how bullshit, you know, everything was for a long time. Mainstream media is was so influenced by special interest. I'll tell you I went to I went to Jordan Peterson's talk the other night. I don't think I've talked about this on the podcast. I went to his talk in San Francisco and it was a great talk. Packed house that was at the Masonic in San Francisco. He basically this is the talk where he goes over each chapter of the book. Right? He goes over he actually only went over eight chapters and you know Jordan. One thing I like about Jordan Peterson is every time he talks, he goes off on different tangents. So you're not hearing the same stuff. So I heard different stories as cool. He's such an incredible communicator. I'm learning a lot by observing how he talks and how he communicates things that's influencing me in the way I talk and communicate. But here's something that was fascinating. So I'm you know I'm always embroiled in the political spheres and people's opinions and you know how the mainstream media tries to sway opinion and I know it's bullshit. I know when I look at Fox News and see an MSNBC and they'll cover the same fucking subject completely from two different viewpoints and skew it totally different. I know like this one's paid by these people and this one's paid by these people. Like I know all that right. But sometimes it's really scary when it's right in front of your face. And what the mainstream media has been saying about Jordan Peterson is that he's you know all right angry white males. You know like the like fascist like completely false things that they're saying about and I know they're completely false because I've listened to so many of his lectures and I read his books and if he was any of those things I would hate the guy and he's not. So I show up and I'm in line and there's a huge crowd of people and I'm looking around and the audience is fully 50 percent women if not more maybe even 60 percent women. So that was bullshit. Yeah I'm looking around and I'm like okay I'm looking for let's pay attention to the races of the people are we all white. No it was like probably half or more minorities in the audience then than white people. It was so opposite of the way that they painted him and I'm not doing this to blow smoke up as asked her to say I'm a huge fan or whatever. All I'm saying was it was scary. It was scary because all these articles that have been reading in the mainstream old media were so blatantly false and bullshit that it just goes to show you how the decentralizing of things boy it's going to start revealing quite a bit and that's just part of it. You know it's happening in fitness it's happening in politics it's happening in. Dude it reminds me of the curtain being open and you know the Wizard of Oz they look and it's just this fucking little old guy. He projects himself to this big green head and I'm like God to you. You know you're still a little fucking old guy. It's crazy. I'm not going to believe this shit anymore. It's crazy and it's scary. It's scary but it's scary only because it's like when you know you have some fears and you're like oh this is how it is but then you actually see it and you're like oh shit. Yeah I don't think I don't think it's as scary because I think we again we always tend to you know flirt with the boundaries and then enough people get burned or doesn't go off doesn't go well and then we come back in the direction and I think though I think the swings over over evolution I think I think over time I think have been less and less like how drastic they are. Like I think we as we continue to evolve we get smarter and smarter although we still won't push boundaries and we still will get a little crazy but I don't think it's going to get I've never had that like chicken little type of mentality where this guy is falling and like oh my god like I'm going to have to go by property somewhere else and hold up and bury my guns and do all these kind of prepper. Yeah you know I'm saying mind calendars. Yeah I just I just subscribe to that. I think because we are we we live now in the society where we're all connected so closely and so easily can communicate. I don't think as a nation we would ever allow that no I become like so bad. So I'm not afraid that something terrible is going to happen. What here's what what I mean by scary. I don't mean like I'm scared. I mean scary in the sense that it's it's it's crazy how how false things were or are and it's crazy at how when when things really start to get decentralized. How much that facade is going to fall apart and how it's going to be it's going to be scary in the sense that a lot of people are going to be shocked. Yeah you know what I mean. It's all going to dissolve. A lot of people are people are over it. You know like that. That's why like truth and and honesty is like it's just piercing through all this shit. It they can't stop it. Yep. Yep. I just everybody everybody can communicate on a level they've never been able to before. That's right. That's right. You know here's the thing if you have if people just respect each other in the sense that they respect that each person is an individual and everybody's going to have an opinion. And so long as you don't hurt me and steal from me you can have your opinion and we can talk and discuss these opinions. But I know you're not going to hurt me because we already talked about that and you're not going to steal from me. So although we totally disagree the common ground that we have is that we understand that we don't hurt anybody and we don't steal from anybody. Boy, that's that's a great that's a great way to have discussions. That's a great and you can talk about anything. We could talk about the most controversial shit in the world. You could believe in a horrible horrible shit. But so long as I know you're not trying to hurt anybody or steal from anybody. Like it's all good and it's exciting. Yeah, real good stuff. We have when when is a when's the mirror event Taylor next Friday the eighteenth. So where's that Seattle see that's a isn't that your hometown that's Doug's hometown. Now you said this girl. This event has. Hey, can you say it like that? No, I hear you, girl. Say it like that. Sorry. Hey, come to. I'm so smooth. So I can't I'm sorry. I get sucked in. Yeah, I feel like if like I'm close to you and you're talking like. Chills, my hair will stand up like. Have you been now, Taylor, when you were up up in Seattle, did you actually go to the mirror? Yeah. Oh, so you've been in the flagship. So you've been in the location. It's really cool. Is it? Yeah. Now, is it is it bigger than the the event we did tonight? Yes. OK, well, so that's it's an even bigger space. That's going to be cool. I can't wait, man. I know that last one was fun. This is now you described it like it's it's sounding like when you told me it's almost like this bar, coffee shop type of look lounge where they serve coffee, beer, kombucha. Yeah. So I think during the day it's it's part like cafe, community space. It's also a retail space. And then they do community events out of it, too. So what we're going to do, we're going to do what's different about this event than the one we did yesterday is we're going to do an actual podcast interview. OK. So follow the story interview, which is a little different. And then and then we'll transition to the the live quaw, which is going to be really fun. Yeah, that's going to be as if it's filled up yet or people are able to still sign up for it. I think we should pack this one out. I think so. Keep going. Let's break the fire. Where do people go, Doug? I keep forgetting. Where do people go to get signed up on this one? Go to mine pump media dot com forward slash tour, but make sure you put W.W.W. at the beginning because that link will not take you there if you don't do that. So W.W.W. Dot mind pump media forward slash tour. I'm on media dot com. Dot com. Yeah. Forward slash tour. It's also in the show notes, too. So yeah, yeah. That's probably the easiest way for people. What do you say we answer some questions? Yeah, we could do that. Oh, yeah. Hmm. I forgot we were doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing that this show's already late. All right. So we have actually what do you mean? This show is supposed to air tonight. Yeah. Oh, I still got to edit this thing. We kept we kept you guys waiting. Yeah. It's going to be so worth it. Edge of your seat. This clause brought to you by OrganiFi. For those days, you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition. OrganiFi fills the gap with laboratory tested certified organic super foods to help give your health and performance the added edge. Try OrganiFi totally risk free for 60 days by going to OrganiFi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use a coupon code mine pump for 20 percent off at checkout. All right. Our first question is from Rebecca dot UBS. If you want to compete in both bodybuilding and powerlifting, does it matter what you do first? Well, that's it. You should ask Ben Pollock about that. That's really it. Did you pick that? You picked the horse. You know, you know why I picked this question. I know why you did because we were just looking at Ben Pollock's picture and we were discussing how impressive, how unique his physique looks for somebody who's never competed for bodybuilding before and how impressive he is. There is this strange. There's no science. We've I know we've talked about this on the show. This is pure speculation. And I 100 percent agree with you. I have nothing to back it up. Yeah, there's no science. I have nothing for my own experience. What I've seen, what I've seen in clients that I've trained, what I've seen in my own body. But I can't put words to it because it doesn't fully make sense to me. Yeah, when you when you train with really heavy fucking weight, when you train for maximal strength, it's a different look for years. OK, you do it for years and then you get shredded. You get this hard granite grainy. Yeah, look to your body. It's this very hard grainy great input, great input. He just saled you, bro. He just sports. He just sports that at you right there, dude. I did a couple of times. You just how many more? You just cherry picked. Don't you just cherry pick? That was so good to hear it. We're going to go. We're going to go. It's like dry. Hey, dude. No, he's kind of good at this. See him in a couple of weeks. You know, just wait for him to. Yeah. But hey, it's true, dude. Look in bodybuilding, sharpening up in bodybuilding, you had guys like like Doreen Yates, who trained insanely heavy for a long time. You had people like Ronnie Coleman. Back in the day, people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Franco Colombo talked about the importance of heavy, heavy strength training to give you that granite kind of hard look. I look, I train. I always veer more towards and sometimes to my detriment towards heavy training. I enjoy really, really heavy maximal strength type training. And when I got myself shredded for MAPS anabolic, because before we before Doug and I put max MAPS anabolic out, we wanted to get some take some pictures of me that would be kind of marketable. And I'm not a very big guy. So I said, OK, you know, one of the best one of the things I can do to kind of set myself apart is just get shredded. And so that's what I did. And I was it was kind of cool to see my body shredded because I have I got this really hard, grainy look to my physique. And I think it's because I always trained really, really heavy and it gives that kind of look. And again, there's no science to support this. But I've seen this. Some people I even hate using the word grainy because I felt it's just not a lot of adjectives to pull from, you know, to describe exactly what that looks like. It's harder edges, right? It's harder edges to muscle. The skin almost looks it looks thin. It looks the muscles just look very looks like you can move shit, you know, like you can work like you move. You know, like that's way more objective. Listen, the other ones look like a bunch of fucking balloons and they're all like filled with oil and shit. You know, well, the the the point, you know, circling back to the actual question, which one do we think is is more important? Real technical. Here, I this is what I think. I think that most body builders do not do enough strength training. Yeah, like maximal strength. Yeah, yes. And I think that they would greatly benefit through running more of it in the routine. I don't think it matters so much. Or at least I don't think it's going to make that big of a difference to strength train or power lift first and then get into bodybuilding or vice versa. I just think. Well, which one do you think? Let's say you're equally. This is a good question. Now, let's say you're equally interested in both powerlifting and and yeah, like, like, I really want to do well on both of them. So I'm going to compete in both of them or, you know, I'm going to it's good. Well, don't you think that building the strength is going to have more carry over like doing that first is your foundation? I mean, Arnold did that, right? He was a power lifter or Olympic lifter going into bodybuilding later on, but you just had that base of strength. Yeah. And then just kind of built in isolated areas. Yeah. No, it's almost to actually it's not even close. It's not even close to baby because you're going to get the just the CNS training you're going to get from strength training and lifting powerlifting like that compared to hypertrophy training and you have to learn function like mobility of more when you train powerlifting than you do with bodybuilding. Yes. You almost have to break bad habits if you start with bodybuilding and then go to power. Right. Whereas if you will go from powerlifting to bodybuilding, there's no real bad habits to break. I mean, you have to kind of start to learn to feel muscles more than the than just doing movement. So that's a bit of a learning curve. Well, that happened to me. I mean, when I told I was competing. Yeah. Talk about the change in your physique because you were competing bodybuilding style for for years and years and years and achieved success doing so. You looked phenomenal. But then we all started mind pump and then you got on this kick of just getting strong and your body changed. I saw it. There was there's a picture you posted it before and after it was a big difference that. Well, that was the big game changer is my back and that was the one that fucking blew me away where I was like, holy shit. I've shared stories on the podcast before the how the strength change the change in strength. I saw big time like the CD row that I've been doing for 10 years of my life consistently in my routine that I maybe pull 180 pounds or so all of a sudden I'm ripping 300 like it's light. Like that was like, holy shit. Like to feel myself jump. I mean, to fill yourself jump like that over in a year's time when for 10 years of training, I didn't incrementally went up for years and years. So yeah, I saw the for sure strength. And then when I saw when you peeled down. Yeah, well, when I leaned all the way out, I saw how thick my back had gotten my back had gotten it again. Here's another here's a bro term for you. It got that 3D look and in that because you were wide. You already why? Yeah, I'm a tall guy and I have broad shoulders and I have a very narrow way. So I already have the natural V taper look and a lot of guys will if they do a lot of lap pull downs and they do C to row all day long. They tend to develop this nice wings and they but they look kind of like a pancake and they look flat and somebody who deadlifts. I can always tell somebody who deadlifts 400 pounds plus. You could just if you're pulling 400 plus pounds off the ground, like you just you got to have a thick back. Got those columns. Yeah, you got these those center columns and you have a thickness to your back, which gives the quote unquote 3D look that people talk about. But that to me, that's the definition of that. That makes the most sense to me when someone when you hear that bro word of, oh yeah, his back looks 3D. You know, like, what does that mean? And the funny thing, too, is as being in in fitness, as long as we have, I can tell even if they look similar, even if the people look similar in terms of body fat percentage, you know, both lean, both maybe aesthetic, I can almost tell when I look at people like, oh, that guy's that guy, like he trains a lot for strength and performance. And that guy over there kind of just trains for aesthetic. You can almost tell in their in their physics, especially I mean, your movement patterns. Well, you can really tell in the extreme versions of both categories. I mean, look at your your top level men's physique guy and look at your top level power lifter guy. And it's like they are very, very different looking. No, I'm talking about even when they're both lean, you can almost tell. And no, I mean, look at Ben Polin, that's true. Look at Ben Polin. He looks strong. Yeah, yeah, no, he's a because he's not that's that picture. I don't know if you read the caption. He's not getting ready for he's getting ready to power lift. Yeah, he's still competing in power lifting. Yes, bro. He's feeling down. Yes. That's what's crazy. She's not even trying to get on stage. That's what I'm going to speculate a little bit on why this may be happening again. There's no scientific. There's no science to support this. This is pure speculation, but and it's I'm not the only one speculating this. This has been speculated for decades by bodybuilders and strength athletes for a long time. Here's what I think that's happening. I think the nature of bodybuilding encourages more of that sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, more of that fluid within muscle, which gives the muscle a different look than strength training, which may not increase increase the sarcoplasm as much, but increases muscle fiber thickness more and I don't know how you would prove this. I don't know if you'd have to biopsy muscles or whatever to figure this out, but it's almost seems like it looks that way, right? Like like someone who lifts heavy for a long period of time for years or decades, and then they get shredded. It's almost like they have more muscle fiber, less fluid, and then the guys that do the bodybuilder type routines for long periods of time and you know, focus on getting the pump. When he explains that to you, does that make any sense to you at all? Being honest, maybe. Yeah, a little bit. OK, I just want to I'm following. OK, I just one may look more like a balloon that's bubbly and shapely, and the other one may look more like a piece of concrete that was carved in that particular shape. Does that kind of make sense? I bet if I saw pictures, well, I mean, and if you just take it down to like something that has a little bit of fluid versus something that's pretty much just like muscle and to that point, something that that's my speculation. No, to that point, something that I noticed big time in my physique after I got into strength training after the competing thing was when I would compete and I see this a lot when my peers is you look super impressive when you're pumped up. Oh, yeah. I would get I would get aired up and I would and I I actually did not post pictures of myself aired up because I was like, if someone sees me in real life, they're going to be like, what happened to you? So I look like I put 30 pounds on I drink a gallon of water. I mean, I got a gallon of water. I got three, four hundred grams of carbs inside of me. I'm fucking pumping the blood in their high reps like crazy. All I mean, I look I literally and I'm already a six foot three two hundred thirty pound guy. Like I look 260. And so, you know, I would but then I also would shrink all the way back down. When you when the pump would go when the pump would go away, I would deflate all the way down and I would and in my head, I was like, man, I want more of that. Look, I feel like I don't look anywhere near what I look like all pumped up. Well, when I started strength training way more, what I noticed was I didn't get that crazy same massive pump as I did before. But I walked around buffer looking like it lasted longer. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't I didn't need to be inflated to still look like I trained and I lifted like I relied. I feel a lot on the pump to give me the look that I wanted all the time by always chasing the pump. So I think a lot of the guys and girls that stay in the 10 to 15 to 20 rep range and the super setting and the slow rest periods all the time and they're constantly chasing that hypertrophy to that feeling of pumping up the muscles and they're not heavy strength training one to two reps and you think that's why they they really do detour from strength training sometimes. Yes, they don't get the same kind of yes. Yeah. Oh, of course, I don't like this. I go right back. That's what that's what would change. That's what changed me for many years. So I would it's not like I talk about on the show how I never trained like below six reps and I never did. But every once in a while, I would creep down to like five or six reps. But even then, like I remember, like never staying there very long because of that exact reason because the pumps were terrible. Yeah, I was never as when I hit 15 10, 15 reps, super setting. So that I felt amazing and it fed that part of me that I was like, oh, I feel good. But it was artificially it was artificially blood and fluid pumped in there. I wasn't really getting more muscular. Yeah, you hardly ever get a pump with when with when you do proper, you know, a heavy weight. Hella men's physique guys are stuck in this. I'm calling all you fools out that don't know this like the give you some I'm serious like you're gonna do a workout. So many of these dudes that and I would see them show after shit. That's why they all look so many of them look the same after every show and what's funny. What body part what one body part wins competitions physique and bodybuilding. You're back back. Yeah, you're back. What's the one body part you pretty much can't fully fucking develop unless you train for strength. You're back. It's very difficult to do so and that's what that's the big difference is that in that body part. There's other body parts too that you can tell when somebody strength trains versus when someone, you know, someone doesn't core. Yeah, core like a thick core hands, forearms, neck sometimes like a break. Yeah, I can always tell when I see a buff dude with a thick neck, I can tell like, OK, they don't just lift weights in the gym. They do some other shit, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, but but but true. It's the back like it's hard to develop a really impressive like like competition winning back without doing heavy fucking shit. Yeah, well, you know, there's a caveat to that too is that this, you know, when you train low repetitions that also I think there's more reward, but there's also more risk risk. Oh, yeah. So that was another thing that I noticed I started chasing the once I saw the benefits, my body was getting from the low reps. You caught up in it. Oh, yeah. I was like, man, I all sudden started training this one to three rep range because of the gains were coming on. And for a guy who's been lifting for 15 years to see gains kind of coming on like that, I was like, whoa, like I want to keep doing this. And of course I kept doing it and then now all of a sudden I get all these nagging pains. Oh, now my joints start hurting and now I have these my back is hella tight and my hips are tight and I start to feel that because I'm not then I'm not doing the things to balance myself out and counter all that that heavy lifting that I'm doing. So, you know, you got it that's and that is the importance of why all the programs are phased the way they are is they're and they we tell people on the show and on our form all time to have flexibility, you know, maybe you stretch a phase out for four weeks or whatever, or maybe you cut a phase short to two weeks and you're on in the next. That's that that's fine into each their own body built body building style workouts definitely definitely a more conducive to longevity than heavy fucking strength based workouts. I mean it's true, like constantly pushing yourself for one to three reps. Boy, you have to have perfect taxing perfect mobility and perfect movement. Yes, to be able to do that for a long time. Yes, otherwise you're going to hurt yourself yourself. And that's why too, I think that I think if you I think we all agree, right strength training would be the by far more best to start with and then go into bodybuilding. Next question is from John Alva seven for online training coaching. What are your thoughts about high ticket coaching? Do you feel it's better route for us trainers wanting to go into the online world or is low ticket better focusing on volume to help more people? I never think that low ticket is a good idea, especially something that requires your time. If it's your time by you doing that out, it's and it's always a value and price thing. If if you're you're having a hard time charging people X amount of dollars, then your service isn't valued at that. Yeah, I think it's a volume thing to you know, like it's two business models, right? It's the low volume, high price model versus the high volume, low price model. Now one of here's and here's a trade off. The trade off is this. Typically, what do you get? What do you get from a low volume, high price model? You know, you don't even you're not even really in the fitness industry except for a podcast, right Taylor? This is true for all businesses. What do you typically get when people pay a lot of money, but there's less volume? Better quality, right? Much better quality, better service. Now the opposite, but the trade off is you need. You don't get a lot. You can't have tons of customers. You just can't do that. So you can go the low, the low cost, high volume route, but understand that you're going to be sacrificing quality. I don't care how good your fucking systems are. It's just the quality will have to decrease a little bit. You're also dealing with certain type of customer at that price point. That's true too. That's a great point. You want to you want to and what kind of customers do you want to attract? You know, you know, last thing you want, I remember that being a trainer and working my way up from being somebody who was, you know, charging $50 an hour all the way up to where we were charging $150 an hour and each incremental step along the way. And as my rate would increase, I realized I started to attract the better client and the better customer because they valued my time that way. It's like, I, I realized really, and now it's like if I was, you know, obviously I don't train anymore, but if I'm talking to a client about my, it's a very easy conversation. Like I value my time and I know that I provide that much value for your life. So it's not even like a thing to be debating. And you also got to think the scalability of what some of these online coaches are doing. I see it a lot like the model is right now to go low and have high volume. Yeah. And just because you can reach so many people on social media and you're going to, I mean, it's impossible to give a great, you know, one-on-one type of service to somebody for super cheap. It's just it's not scalable with tons and tons of volume. Yeah, it's just not, I mean, if you're going to go that route, if you want to go the high volume route, then figure out how to design really nice, you know, well-programmed programs and workouts like we do and design them in a way that's going to hit most people or be effective for most people and then do it that way. But to try to offer coaching that's high volume, it takes away from the coaching aspect, you know what I mean? Right. Yeah. I'm always a quality guy and that's what led me into the direction of like charging premiums, you know, and like, what does that look like? What kind of value can I add to, you know, like make it match what I'm asking from my client? And like, that was like my entire business model. And I honestly, if I was to go back, I would do it all over again, because there's it's such a differentiating approach than everybody else is always like trying for the price war or trying to be, you know, cheap and get things to, you know, the masses. But you're just going to attract a lot of people that are really serious about it. And, you know, they're just going to kind of slough it off because it doesn't hold the value, you know, of something that actually you're asking them to really be committed in a sense by by paying that kind of money. And so, yeah, you can get to a point to where you really, you really just kind of construct what that perfect client looks like for you. And then you can you can draw the literally draw that up to the very details of what you want them to look like. And it literally like you get better at marketing to that person and then it becomes a reality. Yeah, I mean, I just and if you're going to go the low the low cost high volume route coaching, just be honest with people and tell them, hey, I have a lot of clients. I have this many people I work with. This is what I provide. And it's not like the not like I'm coaching you one on one and just be honest and I'm sure people will see value and you know, I remember when the the chiropractor industry started doing this. You know, there was a second there where there became this like method of applying chiropractic care where and there was a term for it. I don't remember what it was where a chiropractor would have whack him and crack five beds, five beds in a room. Do you guys remember this? Did you go? You went to chiropractors a lot. Remember they scheduled by the 15 every 15 minutes. Remember that's there was like all of a sudden it made a switch where you would go to chiropractor before it was like stem machine massage and then they just go yeah. Yeah, it was there. It used to be one on one you go in an office or whatever and then all of a sudden you go in and there's like seven beds and there's other people laying down next to you and you'd go from one to the next to the next to the next. Okay, hold this stretch for the next five minutes. I'll be right back and he goes the next time and I don't remember what the was it was there a name for this method or I don't know. I think there's a number of different modalities practice in chiropractic, but some of them are very speed oriented. Yes. And others are spent a lot more time with people and they would spend they would sell it. They would actually do courses and teach chiropractors how to do this in order to turn their businesses into profitable ones. And so, you know, that's always kind of the trade off. And I don't know, maybe because we're purists and fitness and it's like if you're going to coach people, like coach them, you know what I mean? Or maybe it's the guilt. Maybe that's a good point. You know, maybe maybe for so many years. I mean, it's a good point. You know, we probably chased the dollar ourselves. And for so many years we we were probably giving awful advice, even if we didn't know better or not, but that's enough to make me feel guilty and feel like. Do you think that there was a level of willful ignorance for a short period of time before you turn the corner? Sure, absolutely. Like you said, with the group training experience, the same thing. I just knew that when I was group training, I wasn't being myself to the level of like, I know I'm helping this person. Like, I was just trying to make it like, I'm not hurting anybody here. You know, like that was my goal, you know, like everybody's doing a million things in different directions and, you know, you just try and staff it accordingly. But it's just not it's just not as effective as it could be. Did I ever tell you so? I little so my entire fitness career, I either train clients or managed trainers or gyms, right? And then I had my wellness studio where I had clients and my the longest stint I had with group training was probably, I think it was maybe a grand total of three months. So I did a circuit training class where people could show up and they'd pay a much lower rate, you know, for coaching because there's 10 people in the class and I'd set up a circuit for them and they'd go from, you know, exercise to exercise and and that was it. And I only did three months because I fucking hated it. I couldn't stand it. It was hard for me to it was hard for me to continue doing it, knowing that it was bullshit and people are just going to sweat and they're not going to progress. It was very difficult thing for me. And when I don't when I don't like something, it's hard for me to fake it. And so I wasn't good at it. And so it wasn't very popular so I had to shut it down. But there was one moment. My God, this is so funny. Probably the third class. One of the exercises that I had was you have this medicine ball, the bouncy ones, the ones that you can bounce on the floor and they'll go up a little high. And the exercise was I bounce the medicine ball and your job was to chase it and catch it before it landed. OK, so this was the exercise. It was like a sprint. So this lady who was probably forty five, oh my God, who, you know, she worked out so she looked fit, but she never ran. It's gonna be all bad. She never ran. Nobody ever who the fuck runs nowadays. And you know what I mean? Like you don't run unless you're being chased by something. So first class starts. I bounce the medicine ball. She goes to take off and she fucking trips. And I saw my I saw like liability waivers. Like I saw everything like what did she sign? Yeah, she started going forward. And I don't know. I think it was an act of God or something. She caught herself with her foot and then kept running. But I just saw teeth like flying everywhere. I have visioned the whole thing. Scared the fuck out of me. I saw somebody run in. Yeah, running a boot camp adjacent to like when I was training somebody at this gym, they're doing it outside. And I just saw this guy doing just basic speed ladder drill stuff, right? But he was unmanaged and he caught his foot on the back of his other foot, like the back of his ankle and literally just fell right on his face and gets up and he's just two teeth gone blood all over his face. Two teeth. Wow. Yeah. And just and I was like, oh my God, it's a lot of blood. Just getting on call 9-1-1 and like he's just sitting down like trying not to like. Oh my God, I do. I do want to say, though, if I were to do like a boot camp or do something like this, if I if I'm in if I'm in Jonathan's position, I know Jonathan right, too. I actually would run these boot camp type classes or I would structure them, you know, as far as business model wise, like the boot camps, but it would the class that I would teach would be like a mix of FRC and Aldoah. And this is what I do right now on Saturdays for the the couples that I've had in my life as clients of mine for 10, 15 years. And, you know, when I no longer had time to train them or do we've maintained relationships and Saturday mornings when I'm in town, a lot of times we're traveling so I don't get to do this. But Saturday mornings, I get up and I and I teach this class and it's free. I don't charge them for any of this. My way of kind of giving back probably again, the guilt thing and so in our penance. Right. No, I do. I feel I owe it to some people and I feel like I'm actually really impacting their lives. And I remember. So this is what's kind of neat about this group of people that I have is they were part of my boot camps way back when when I was fucking battle open them and running through ladders and running flat fucking stairs and all that shit. Right. And I remember that. I remember thinking like, man, most of them, there's not any. I don't think one of them is younger than 50. So these are like 50 to 65 plus your olds and a lot of couples. And, you know, I remember like all of them, you know, I looking at all their posture, their mechanics. And I knew it was terrible. I'm going like, Jesus, like all what you know, they really need to be doing is just like corrective stretching all night long, right? The whole time. And it wasn't until we started to really dive into F.R.C. and Aldo and those type of things that I really start to implement that. And, you know, I could see that because you have them hold a position. Yeah, I just go from station to station. That's all we do. I teach a one hour class and it's a it's a mix of it's a mix of animal flow, Aldo and F.R.C. all built into one. And I do it with them. I take them through it. And I part of it is selfish too. So it's a way for me to get back and it's also it gets me up on a Saturday when I would probably do all those mobility. Yes, to do all this mobility stuff. So I'm sure there's a little bit of selfish fulfillment there too. And so I get an opportunity. How can I motivate myself to do mobility? Right, right, right. Right, but if I was Jonathan, I would I would for sure invest in F.R.C. I would invest in Aldo. I think they're I think they're ahead of the curve with and I think I think where we're going in this I generation and with the phones and the laptops and so I thought this this type of stuff is going to be extremely important to teach people. So I would start to be a way ahead of people and start creating these classes that that you teach this in. And I think that would provide incredible value. I think you could feel good about putting people in a class setting in it and not feeling like you're just taking their money to make them sweat and lose five pounds and gain five pounds and lose five pounds. And then I would take the coaching concept that you're doing. You're doing virtually. I would start low just like I did. I started at what low I thought was two hundred dollars, a client a month for coaching. And with that, they got to talk to me daily and they got diet. They got feedback from me. And each time I added a new client, I added value to what I was doing. And I would learn off of what I did the previous month. Like, what did that client feel like they received for me? How could I have made this better? And then also more efficient because I am scaling a business. And every time I added a client, I upped my price by twenty five dollars. And I kept doing that until I got up to five hundred dollars. And then by that time, my bump was off and running and I never had to do it again. But if I were to be if I was in your shoes knowing where you're at in your life right now, that would be my advice on handle the online coaching and how I would scale the pricing and I would create more value and try and spend less time and or less or have less people and more value for them and then teach classes to where you could have 10, 15, 20 people in there that you charge a monthly fee to be able to do classes like that. Next question is from Joe Puschner. Do you all feel the victim mentality is on the rise in society? Oh, God. If so, how do we effectively begin to deal with it in ourselves and others? The victim mentality is for sure on the rise, for sure, it's on the rise. Is it are we more aware of it now? Oh, no, I think it's I think it's more on the rise. And here's why I think it's more on the rise because life is a lot fucking easier. I think life is easier. Kids are born with more opportunities and things and stuff. And they don't have to work as hard for things. We have to actually create challenging scenarios. And so and so when they don't get what they want to the rise of Spartan, right? You know what I'm saying? Like we're with things are so easy in our society and life. Now, we have invented a race that fucking punishes you for fucking two hours. You haven't been dirty your whole life. Right. Yeah. Right. And not only that, but we're going to charge you. And we're going to make a fucking ton of money on that. It's brilliant, right? Fucking brilliant. It really is. I mean, that's why I love Joe so much, like Joe's a fucking gangster for seeing that how early he saw it and then sticking through it, dumping millions of dollars into it when he wasn't making money and continuing to push through to see that vision. And let me tell you, he's fucking on a ride now. Oh, he's going to be on a ride for a while. Perfect timing. You know, for something like that, it's so needed. I mean, people just I mean, they're seeking the irony is how many people actually know why it's so fulfilling for them? They don't. They don't. They don't run to it. They're drawn to it naturally because we need it because I know I have a lot of friends that have done it and love it and talk all great about it. But if you ask them, like, why? Oh, it's just cool. It challenges you. It's that, you know, I'm saying that they and they talk like that, but they they're not really connecting why that why that is for them. A lot of people don't dive deep enough into that. They just they're drawn to it. If it fills something, it feeds something that's an inner desire that we all need and want and then they. So they do it would. Meanwhile, it's like that should give you a sign. Well, look, it's so pervasive and insidious to an easy. It's so easy to blame all your failures on things that you can't control because you can't control them. So it's not your fault. You know what I'm saying? Like the reason why I didn't get that job or I'm not successful. The reason why I didn't do so well is because, I don't know, my gender, my race. I grew up poor. I was born in difficult situations or whatever. All things that you have no control over because it removes responsibility from you. Now, here's what happens when you take when you when you remove responsibility from you. When you eliminate that from your from your from the way you think about things, you also disempower yourself when everything is a result of things you can't control, then that means you control nothing. That means you have no power. It's there's nothing that can do about anything that happens to me in my life because, you know, I'm either I'm not privileged. I'm not the right gender. I'm I grew up poor. I didn't have the same opportunities. I'm dyslexic. I'm an amputee. I'm paralyzed. Whatever the fuck you want to call it and they're all they can things pose. Here's the thing. Here's what I love and what I'm going to go controversial now. We'll talk about privilege for a second. I love that term when people throw that around boy. Do I fucking hate that term and it's not because, you know, you know, because it's white or black or whatever. Not not because of that. Here's why I hate it. I hate the term privilege because it assumes you know somebody. It assumes you know somebody and all of the factors that make up that individual. If I were to sit here and make a list of all the possible challenges that someone could have in their life, everything from, you know, their life, their parents, their mentality, their genetics, the school they went to, the people they met, their friends. Like, I mean, I could literally make an infinite list of possible challenges. If you know what I was infinite fucking list and you can't possibly quantify and each one of and every single thing on that infinite list, there's an infinite scale of how challenging someone can consider it to be. I may consider my, you know, dyslexia, for example. Well, imagine if I'm dyslexic, I may consider that as an incredibly difficult challenge, a horrible stumbling block and something that is preventing me from whatever, or I may think of my dyslexia as an afterthought like, oh yeah, I'm dyslexic. No big deal. Like there's also that too. There's this infinite range of how you can consider all these infinite things that could be possible challenges. You can't possibly know everything about someone to call them fucking privilege and to say that they're lucky and you're not. And yeah, you can go and you can say they may be lucky in this particular parameter compared to me on this specific parameter. You may be able to do that, but good fucking luck. And it's also disempowering a shit to look at somebody and be like, oh, well, the reason why their success, have you ever asked way better than I am? Have you ever asked somebody like, what is with someone says like, oh, that's white privilege. Like, what does white privilege mean to you? Have you ever asked, what do they say to you? You know, when they use that term, and by the way, that was a term created by the politicians to separate us 100 percent, and that's what they do very fucking well. What does white privilege mean? Well, it means that if you look at statistics, you can say white people generally less likely to be incarcerated, generally tend to have more money, generally are more likely to have two parents in the house. Generally, we can say this, that and the other. But on an individual basis, it means jack fucking shit. It means nothing. It really does, because regardless of what your race is, all of those things can be true or false. And so it's silly to say that. It's also, dude, here's the other side of this. It's fucking terrible to say that, because let's say I'm a, let's say I'm a black kid growing up in America today, and I keep hearing the term white privilege, well, what is that? What can I potentially start to think about myself? I'm at a disadvantage because of my color. Right. I could act. That could, that could be a bad thing. I can interpret that in a way to say, well, fuck it, man, I'm destined for all this difficulty in my life because of something I don't, I don't have any control over. Now that's not, I'm not denying the reality of things like racism and sexism and the potential opportunities that money give you and the potential opportunities of having a good family, give you and all that kind of stuff. But boy, on an individual basis, what does that fucking mean? I can look at Adam, right? If I'm, if I'm, if I have a victim mentality, I could look at Adam and be like, this underprivileged guy grew up in a poor household, had a difficult childhood, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The reality is I know Adam and I know that that's part of why he's so successful. Was it, is it, did that make him underprivileged or is that his privilege? Did he view it in a way that empowered the fuck out of him? Right. I mean, think about that, right? So it's, it's a very, it's a very scary thing that's starting to happen where we're starting to, we're starting to blame things on uncontrollables and we're disempowering ourselves as a result. The whole fabric of this revolution of Western society, which, you know, I'll say arguably, just to be a little bit politically correct, but personally, there's no fucking argument that Western society has proven to be, by most metrics, the superior philosophy that, that we know through all of recorded human history on most metrics, equality for women, equality for minorities, prosperity, the ability for people to have free thought, free religion, free speech, like all these things that we take for granted now, like that is something that developed in Western society. And what it was based on was this philosophy of each individual has a, has these inalienable rights that nobody should be able to take away from you. In fact, we'll create a government small enough, big enough to protect that, but small enough that I wouldn't fringe upon that. That was the, that's the basis of Western society. So to believe in that, but also along with that comes, it's your life, the burden of your life is on you. That comes with a lot of responsibility. And then people accepted that. You know what I'm saying? Like if you look at the creation of this country for, for quite a bit, for most of American history, we, our borders were, you wanted to come to America and be an American, you're welcome. Come on in. Come on in, sign this paper. Here you go. Nobody's going to give you shit. You got to build it for yourself, but people like accepted that work together and did some remarkable things. Still today, you see immigrants come to this country. Look, there isn't anybody fleeing America and fucking a homemade rubber tire boats to go to places like Cuba. It's the opposite. It's for this opportunity, but with it comes responsibility. And if you talk to any of these motherfuckers coming over here and sneaking over to this country and almost drowning by trying to cross oceans or, you know, break laws and, you know, go climb under, you know, walls or whatever, you ask any of these people if they're coming here for free shit. And maybe some of them are today, but for the most part, they're like, no, man, just give me a chance. Let me take this for responsibility. I don't need you to do anything for me. Just give me a fucking chance and I'll go for it. And the victim mentality is like, boy, that's the opposite of that shit. And I wish people could see that. Like I wish we could see that this is just a, it's a big problem. The thing about, I love a lot, I love about fitness so much is if you really get into fitness and health, like so many, so many parallels, you start to accept that. You know what I mean? If you really get into it, I'll tell you, here's the funny thing. It's a greater percentage of entrepreneurs and those type of thinkers that believe in personal responsibility, greater percentage of them work out consistently. And I think the reason is because they take that personal responsibility and they're like, look, if I want to be fucking, if I want to be fit and healthy and have energy, I got to fucking do the work to make the effort. I got to make the effort. And then people who do that see the benefit of that and then start to apply that to the rest of their life. That's one of the reasons, one of the things I love so much about it, but the victim mentality is just getting, it's getting crazy. It's like that. It's like people suing who sue McDonald's for being obese. Yeah. You didn't know that? No. Oh, yeah. Seriously? There's people that sue. There's, I mean, people that will sue me. That's a good question. I'm sure of some of them. Well, I'm sure that that was part of the laws that came out later on with why we had to post calories and stuff. That's that those lawsuits. I love Doug to be able to Google this right now. That those lawsuits those happened and then it was shortly after that. Did we see the it was mandatory that all restaurants had to be provide their nutritional facts either on their website or on their menu for people to read and see. So that I believe that's what catapult. Now, I don't remember if they won the case or not or it caused enough uproar that that's what ended up happening later on. But it's pretty crazy that that if you believe that you own yourself and that nobody else owns you if you believe that or at least if you believe that that's the moral belief and that's the way it should be because you could also make the argument that you're forced to pay taxes and you can't do everything you want your body or you go to jail. So you can make the argument that the government owns your body a little bit in that particular sense. But if you believe morally speaking and it's the right way to believe that I own me. This is my body. This is my mind. Nobody else owns this. It's mine. Then you have to simultaneously believe that the burden for your for your fucking lie. The burden of taking care of yourself and the results of your life lies on you and nobody fucking else lies on nobody else. You can't believe one without the other. You can't pass it off. You can't. So if you give that up, if you start to believe that you're a victim and that people owe you shit and it's it's there, you know, burden to take care of you and their burden to pay you back for your the fact that you're you know that you're oppressed or whatever you've perceived or all these different types of things. If you believe that then you simultaneously believe you don't own yourself because you don't have that response. Have you ever met a successful person that has that role? I have met successful people who feel guilty for the success and then start to cater to that victim mentality because they feel so right feel guilty for it. So then all of a sudden they want to pretend like they you know like oh no no no we owe you and whatever and you know it's it's really funny. You know the irony of it is people who believe in what I'm talking about you with there's always that argument that it's selfish. Oh you're so selfish. You know you should help people whatever you look at the statistics. People who believe that actually give more to charity than people who don't yeah. Oh that's funny. That's a fact really interesting absolute fact. Remember like Justin Ren when he was talking about helping you know the Pygmies and helping. God I forgot about that it's been a long time. Yeah it's been a lot it's been a minute we should we should see if we get them back at some point but it was such a powerful thing when he started to describe like when they were just trying like the governments were trying to really just drop food in and they were trying to just help and and give people everything and access to everything and how much I fucked everything up. Fuck the whole economy that they had built between tribes and between people was was interrupted and now they don't trade with each other. And you know and he he had to actually understand like on a deeper level of like how all that affects like because he really cares because he cares because he really cares. And that's the thing like when you hear people say things like they'll go protest things like I care about this cause go look and see how they live and then that'll tell you if they really care like yes like environment. You don't just fucking throw money at it. No like environmentalists like you have people like oh my god I really care about the environment really do you Leonardo DiCaprio with your fucking massive yacht that has a carbon footprint that 15 of my lives will never will never cover like that. Do you really care or do you pretend like you care because it looks good and there's a lot of pretenders out there. So that's that's what I mean by you know that's that's the whole caring side that personal responsibility and change starts within you and I'll tell you something right now. Yes definitely circumstances can be stacked against you. Yes there are uncontrollable. But boy does life fucking suck when you feel like you can't when you don't own some of that when you don't own some of it's it's tough but it's also pretty awesome to look in the mirror and be like OK my life sucks and I think you know there's shitty circumstances but I think I have more control over this than I thought of before and in fact maybe a lot of the reason why it sucks is because of me. The irony is as you get older and you go through enough shit you realize that you kind of want that. You really do. And I love that's why I love the story that you told about the show Twilight Zone. Oh yeah. When you shared that story because it's such a powerful powerful you know imagery of that of this guy who's you know Roland Dice. He thinks he's up in heaven because he's getting everything that he wants. You know he's getting beautiful women around him. He's rolling craps every time and breaking in the money and has anything he wants to snap his fingers. Everything just works. Right. And it doesn't take long before he goes. This is awful. I would have never expected heaven to be like this. Well what makes you think that's heaven. Maybe that's what hell really is. Maybe hell is actually getting everything you want and the real beauty in everything that we go through is the fucking struggle. Dude the struggle is the struggle is the goal of a minute. Like this. Well look think about this way if somebody could they could just snap their fingers and be super fit all of a sudden. Will they be will they have accomplished or how much would they care about it. Would they have gotten as many of the benefits as they would have gotten had they gone through the struggle to get there and to learn all the things. No. No. That's the reason why you know when we see things like what's that fucking stomach pump thing that's coming. Oh yeah. That's why I know. I know when we saw that it's like right away. You freak out because it's just like you know that 90% of the people that use that are not. It's not going to really help. No. No. I think I think one of the best things you can do in your life that will give you a sense of power like you've never experienced before. But it does require a little bit of pain at first. But it will give you a sense of power and meaning in your life is to realize that for the most part, your circumstances, you were you're the one that caused most of these circumstances, or at least you're a part of them, or you could have made decisions that could have changed them and realize this, realize that even if that's not true, even if regardless, your life is going to be a particular way, which state of mind do you think will feel better to be in the one where you feel empowered or the one where you feel like you're helpless and you're just fucking floating with the wind and everything like it's a consequence of shit that I can't control. They've done studies on this where they've had people in these situations where they'll give them a little bit of autonomy or perceived autonomy and they perceive the difficult situation is much better because they feel like they have more control over you know what's going on. So victim mentality. Here's the thing. Well, you think you can or can't. You're probably right. That's right. And here's the problem. The problem is people spend a lot of money on making you feel like a victim because when you feel like a victim, it's easy to manipulate you and when you feel like a victim, the next the very next thing that they'll promise you as soon as I make you feel like you're a victim to someone else and the reason why all your life sucks and everything sucks and it has nothing to do with you and poor you and it's everybody else and everybody owes you something and you don't need to work hard and you don't need this responsibility. The next thing that follows is but I have the answer for you. I got the fucking listen you vote for me and I got the fix dude. You deserve this shit that I'm going to promise you just vote for me and here's why you deserve it. That's the very next thing run as fast as you can from those motherfuckers. There's a lot of money being spent on the fucking wolves. That's right. That's right. Imagine if everybody stood up right now in the fucking world and said, hey, you know what? I'm going to be the change that I want in the world. I'm going to change the shit right now right now about anybody else. That's it. I'm just going to do what I can what I can control to improve me and imagine what would happen. Right. Next question is from image writer, composing or flexing help with mind muscle connection. Isn't that the definition of mind muscle connection? 100% process of that. Yeah. 100%. In fact, you know, it's crazy. It's like I always know when I would have or I always knew when I would have a really challenging client when I'd ask a client to try and flex muscle like your back is a classic example of that. Like some people just can't even flex their back. Can it can't activate it or their chest? And if you can't flex that muscle, it's really without resistance. Yeah, with intrinsically right. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. Yeah. If you can't flex a muscle without resistance, it's going to be really hard to develop that muscle to build off that. Yeah. And people and that's a very, very great question that you picked there, dude, because this is what's wrong with what happens when a lot of people get into working out is they think it's as simple as just going and going through the motions, right? Get on the machines, just go do this, go do that. Oh, I feel the burn. Oh, I'm sore the next day. We're so we're so not in our bodies. I used to always laugh when I'd have people like beginners do a tricep press down. I was always my favorite exercise because inevitably someone's super out of shape and out of their body like they don't they don't know what they're feeling. They'll do triceps like whoa. I feel this some abs because the abs state the abs are stabilizing. They don't even feel or I'll get the how often did you guys get this? What muscle am I supposed to be feeling? Yeah, because they're so like not connected to their body. They can't even feel what they're supposed to work in. It's pretty crazy know when it comes to mind muscle connection, the ultimate expression of that is being able to activate a specific muscle without I used to say this all working all working out is is flexion of the muscles. Yeah, that's all working out is that's all we're doing with resistance. And that can be your body weight that can be isometric that can be weights cables could be anything but all it is is flexing a muscle with resistance and you want to first learn how to flex the muscle right intrinsically before you even add resistance. So I think that that's a major mistake that a lot of people make is they just go through the motions. And they don't really fully understand like, oh, I'm trying to engage, which is also why I think there's a lot of value and personal trainers because not a lot of people want to go through the work and effort it takes to, you know, oh, how do my lats function? You know, what are they responsible for? And like, I have to understand mechanics like they're not people fully understand that. So having a trainer who can look at your body, look at how you move. And then while you go through an exercise be able to explain to you like, these are the muscles that are responsible for doing this. That's what you should be feeling, you know, or giving them feedback by touching them there or whatever. So yeah, posing I think is a great way to do that by yourself, right? Like I don't have Sal or Justin touching my back to say, Adam, squeeze your lats when you do this. So instead I'm in I'm in the mirror and I'm flexing and I'm trying to activate certain muscles while I'm using the mirror as an as a feedback. I just remember, you know, you get your beginner clients coming in and half the time you just have to provide that kind of feedback, even if it's like physical touch, you know, so your body actually knows like, oh, this is the area that we're we're focusing on like this is like some people just don't even have that ability. And they, you know, they just go through the motions and momentum is carrying them through a lot of their movement practices. And it's just it's it's it's disconnect. It's it's massive this is why some people too can do silly looking exercises and really focus on a certain muscle because they really understand the mechanics and the function of that muscle. And so they can use machine this is also why it's a pet piva mind when professionals or people that think they're professionals on Instagram share these stupid exercises that maybe they have the ability to connect and control and control and do that. It's silly for like the general public, like 90% of the people that are probably watching right, the kids that are just now getting into working out and they see, oh, look at this, I'm going to turn sideways on this or, you know, do some weird shit like that. It's like, dude, I'm going to say something master the basics. I just had an interesting thought. I think that and you guys help me think this out because I think that if the average person learned to master the classic bodybuilding poses, the ones that are used in bodybuilding competition, then maybe a good exercise and learning because think about it and how to control muscles and connects them because think about it. If you do vacuum pose, you have to learn. Well, I'm talking about the classic, like standard mandatory bodybuilding poses like a lat spread, ab pose, front double bicep, which is different than a back double bicep. That's what a real bodybuilding routine is literally taking you through. I mean, they go through hamstring, calf, back, deltoids, chest, abdominals. But even just the poses, just even having people do the poses. Well, yeah, good. Well, if you're doing the poses, you're having to activate and flex those muscles and you're learning to engage in that. There's a lot of value in the ability to do that. I mean, I can actually see some value. Do you guys think because I can see some value almost an assessment? Yeah, or not even an assessment just like, you know, people aren't interested. They're not interested. Now, that Taylor wants to do this now that being said, now that being said as a trainer, it's easier for me to teach that with a tool or feedback like weights. Sure. So telling somebody to intrinsically activate and do that is very, very difficult. It's just like us trying to correct posture and why our zone test is done against the wall. I use the wall. You don't need a wall there. You don't need a wall to check somebody's upper cross syndrome. I don't know. They need to feel that. They need to feel that. So I can say your wrist, your elbows, your nodule of your head, your low back, feel all those points. That should be against the wall. Oh, you can't. It's not against the wall. My head's not even close. You're deviating, right? So they can tell that other. But we don't necessarily need that, but they do. They need that feedback. So the only downfall of I would never teach somebody posing before I taught them how to train because training I can I can get you to connect to muscles by using the weights. Yeah. Easier than how would you teach a beginner how to do like a widespread? They wouldn't even know what the fuck you know, it's funny. Is so I saw this. This is crazy. So you just gave me a funny memory right now. When I first started hanging around all the bodybuilder guys and so that when I was starting to compete and hanging out with all the guys that are coaching and coaching the posing and doing stuff. I could see the guys and a lot of times their physiques represented that they just to me when I would look at some of these athletes that were getting into competing, I would look at a physique and go like you just you have no business competing right now because you just haven't even started to build a good foundation. Like why try and be competitive about it? Like keep building your physique and part of the reason why some of these guys just didn't have physique status. I could see the way they went through their posing routines that no control. They got no control of the right muscles. You know, coach would be like flare your lats or flex your lats and they just couldn't do it. You know, they couldn't figure out how to do them. Like here you are getting up on stage and competing, you know, trying to get and pushing yourself at a competitive level and used to have an even fully mastered the basics. But I consider learning to flex every muscle a basic a basic skill so they should. I consider I consider competing you being a competitive athlete like a professional that. So you should not be. I mean, it's putting the cart before the horse for sure. I mean, you absolutely want to under fully be able to flex and activate every single muscle intrinsically before you're going to push the body to crazy limits. And I can see a lot of value in especially if you're in hypertrophy training or if you're training for aesthetics in following up a set with flexing that particular muscle and squeezing it and holding it for a period of time. I've seen studies around that. I don't know how much I. Now, I don't know. I'm not talking about. I'm just saying in terms of the connection, especially for weak body parts, you know, Ben. No, I agree. I agree with you. I agree with you. But I'm just saying that I've seen people take some studies like that. And again, they take something and then they try and make it look more important than make it more important than exactly what it really is. I see value in that. But you know, Ben, Ben Pekolsky made an interesting point a while ago on our podcast and he said, you'll always notice somebody who has a weak body part that they have trouble or it's it's it's not strong and it's fully contracted position. So when it's fully short in position, it's probably not very good. And, you know, the old old school bodybuilders used to talk about Arnold. I wish I heard that. From a guy like him 10, 15 years ago when I was training lots of people so I could be looking for that more now. Because that's a very interesting. Oh, I'm going back in my role. So am I. I've been and myself like evaluating everything going like, that's interesting. Is he right there? Like, and I do remember when my chest started to develop more, like, was I doing like, that's a really interesting point. And I don't have enough data. I mean, I have enough data to pull from, but I wasn't looking for those things at that time in my life. When I was training, it would be interesting to go back there. But I I definitely think that he makes a fucking very good argument for that. And I see a lot of value in that if you're so if you're listening and you have an underdeveloped muscle, say the calves, your chest, whatever it may be, think of that muscle and the the shorted contracted position where that is. So if your calves it's when you're all the way up on your tippy toes. If it's when you're doing your chest, it's when your hands are together and you're squeezing your chest together. And how strong are you in that fully? Yeah, and I would think I would think like after your set or before, probably before your set, you probably want to connect to the muscle first. It's to squeeze the shit out of that muscle in the shortened position, really connect hard to it and then go do your exercise and that should help you connect a little more. And in fact, when I train clients, I did do I think versions and variations. I think I would think a heavy a heavy negative would be really beneficial to is to get in the fully contracted position with assistance and then resisted in that position. That's a lot of muscle damage though, man. Oh, yeah, it'll be a great way to do that tears the fuck out of my think think about doing that would be a great way to do that. You look confused, Taylor. Could this be like a YouTube video? We could. Yeah, we could do a YouTube video on something like this. I feel like that'd be really cool. Weak body part, how to bring up weak body parts. Brilliant. That's a good idea. I came up with Adam. Always. Next question. Yeah. That is it. I think that is it. You know what's funny? Get these people their episode. This is live. Well, no, dude, you know what's funny is another thing that was shocking and strange to me that I heard a lot of at the seminar yesterday or at the seminar that the event yesterday was people were coming up and a lot of people didn't realize we had fucking social media like yeah form. What a trip. Oh, I don't know you're on Instagram, believe it or not. So I am going to say this. We all have our own individual Instagram accounts. All of them have different information. They all reflect our own personal flavor and personality. We're super easy to find memes. Yeah, mine. They're super easy to find. That's true. Mine is mine pump Sal. Justin is mine pump. Justin. Adam is mine pump. Adam and Doug is mine pump. Doug and Taylor is mine. But mine pump media. Check us out. Thank you for listening to mine pump. 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