 Welcome to Barbell Logic, Rewind. Welcome to Barbell Logic, I'm Scott Hamburg and I've got Matt Reynolds with me. What's up everybody? We have our guest, John Wilson with us today. You know the nickname I have for John Wilson? Johnny Redlight. Johnny Redlight. Johnny Redlight because John Wilson has never given me a white light in a squat attempt in my entire life. Now, I will say it's because I definitely never deserved a white. I don't know that I've ever actually squatted below parallel at a meet. I get dangerously close. Yes, we're well aware of this. So, hey man, thanks for being on the show. So what do you have to do to get a white light though? Three stuff for the people that don't know, John. Tell them what you got to do to get a white light. Squat below parallel. Get that hip three. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Three to four. Here you are. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. All right, yeah. I got diagnosed with Stage 4 metasatic kidney canter in September of 2015 and at that time the doctor gave me three to six months to live and since this is late October 2017 obviously there's something wrong there. Right? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yes. So let's start even before you got diagnosed with cancer. I was doing the spa thing, training actually at another place here in town and thought I was doing something. Basically came over here and found out what real strength training was. And when I first started doing this, my body weight went from about two and a quarter to three oh three in about a year. Wow. A good three oh three. A good three oh three. Yeah. Yep. So that was what about 85, 86? 86. Yeah, 86. And then you stayed, I was gonna say. So what do you weigh, how tall are you and what are you weigh now? I'm about six one and a half and I weigh about 268 now. So you've had stage four kidney cancer for three years? No, for two years. For two years. And you've maintained a body weight over 260 pounds throughout and one of the things we see, I guess with cancer patients that often is the thing that kills them is the wasting away. Yes. And you haven't. Then I have watched you train over the last several years coming in here. I know you've told me stories where you've trained through chemo, right? I'm on chemo as we speak. I take chemo every single day. And how long have you been on chemo? I've been on chemo for two years. Since the beginning. Two years straight. What's it like training? I mean, you've trained healthy. You know what training healthy feels like. What is it like to train sick and on chemo and cancer drugs? Basically you have a constant feeling of being sick to your stomach. The recovery time being on chemo is, well there is no recovery. It ravages your whole body. It's poison. So it doesn't distinguish between good cells and bad cells. It literally destroys anything in its path because it's trying to kill cancer. So anytime I train, I'm really almost never completely recovered. But my choice is either continue to train or die because I'm gonna start losing weight and muscle mass. Yeah, sure. What was it like the first week after you found out? Was it a surprise? I assume you went in, there was something going on and you went in and got checked out or what was the story? Excuse me, I was in a complete and total state of shock. With all humility, about four days before I got, four or five days before I got diagnosed, pulled 490 for five on a deadlift with no belt. At what age was that, how old were you then? 56. Okay, 56 years old, that's 490 for five. Yeah. Strong. Yeah. And then at that time I still was having some problems with breathing and I went ahead and trained anyway. And then within a week, my lung collapsed completely flat. And I thought I had bronchitis or something and instead I went to the ER and they said you need to go straight to a bigger hospital that it can deal with you. And they said early, early looks like diagnosed looks like cancer. It's like you got some spots. And then within a week, they told me that I was, I had stayed for cancer. And so then what was that next week like? How does that play out in your brain? You know, who are you close to? What do you, what does that look like even on a practical level? Again, it's a complete and total state of shock. I never expected anything like that. Nor did I, I guess you hear about other people getting cancer, but it's one of those things you, it'll never happen to me. And I'll be honest with you, right? When I first got diagnosed I had a complete and total breakdown. Sure. I had a breakdown. Again, I just couldn't believe that, that A, I had cancer and then after neurologist came in and said, well, you got a very aggressive form of cancer. It usually gets people very soon and you have three to six months to live and get your affairs in order. So I was an emotional wreck. Sure. So after you got that diagnosis, how long did it take you to come back and train again? It took me about 13 weeks because I had a major chest surgery when I was in the hospital. They scraped my entire chest cavity and they had to detach my lung from my chest wall and then they got cancer out of both my lungs and then carteritis and then they also did one more procedure where they shot chemicals in my left lung so my lung wouldn't fill back up with fluid. So it took me, like I said, about 13 weeks to come back and start training again. In that 13 weeks you get a major surgery before you start training, something had to have changed in your brain, in your mind. So what's that first session look like when you come back after being diagnosed with cancer? 13 weeks without training. You were training obviously really hard going into it. Do you remember that first session? Ugly. Yeah. Yeah. Ugly because I couldn't put very much pressure on my chest or stomach because that's where my surgery was and I still had it. It was very tender and very sore. I think I might have squatted 95. Sure. Probably couldn't even perform with that salva. That sounds like a lot to me. It does. I mean, that sounds fine. I might have been able to squat 95 and I might have pressed 65 and I don't, I'm not even sure if I deadlifted at all but if I did, I might have been 135 but it was something tiny. So they cut your ribs, right? I mean, they cut your sternum. Yeah, they had, no, they went through the side and then what they did was I, for about four or five days, I had an open wound with two tubes sticking in my side. Yeah, the drain. A drain tube and a drain tube and then also a wound vac. So how long did it take you to start building your strength back up and where did that peak at over the last couple of years? How strong have you been able to get on with stage four kidney cancer? It took me a little while. It is, as you know, we don't do things here. Nothing is done to where we have to conquer the world in a few days or even a few weeks. Took me a little while to start putting strength back on. Squat depth got better. Squat, like white, like white light level? No. Okay, good. See, we can be approximately Matt Reynolds level, which should be well. Anyway. I thought if it fixed it, we needed to get Matt cancer. Yes. Yes. Again, I cycled my training back and forth and before I had my kidney removed in 2016, I pulled 500 for a triple. Oh my God. That's incredible. So the week before he got diagnosed, you pulled four, what did you say? 490 for five. So what was your triple at that point, you know? I have no idea. That's all I did. But like I said, I did that 490 or five without a belt. Right, right. I have no idea, but. 560, you know. Yeah, honestly, 500 for three was really not a max set. I had more in me. And my body weight also had gotten up to about 283. So body weight. I want to know what the doctors think. This is so bizarre. It has to be so bizarre for like your oncologist to go in and go, wait, you're gaining weight and you're getting stronger while you have stage four kidney cancer and you're on chemotherapy as we speak. Like that has to be unheard of for them. Again, with all humility, every doctor I've seen, clear from the oncologist to the nephrologist to the urologist. They all have all just hooked at the end of the day. Anyway, they've been nothing short of a maze because typically people that have what I have, first of all, don't live this long and they do not gain weight and or get bigger and stronger. Yeah. And so do they attribute it to the weight training? I mean, will they go far enough? Yes. Yeah, have they bought into this? My first oncologist, no. He told me I needed to do light weights and just maintain. And I just shook my head and left and basically couldn't wait till I got back into the gym so I could start training again and doing what we do. Right. So, yeah. And some of the other guys though started buying to this. They understand what you're doing now at this point. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I assume supportive because you're kind of a medical miracle at this point. I had a guy that I talked to on the phone in the days, 27, whose doctor told him he had dis-degeneration in his back. Right. And so I thought, man, I probably can't train. He fell out of his tree house and he was swell. Yeah. Well, yeah. That's why we're doing this episode, right? Because this, you know, it almost has become trite in the world of memes and the internet of the excuses and valid sort of stuff. But I mean, here's a guy with stage four kidney cancer for two years on chemo the entire time has had two massive surgeries, right? Two major surgeries in that time period? Three. Three major surgeries. Yeah, three. Because he just had a dysgectomy. Right, because you're, right. Because you're... He just had a dysgectomy August the 31st. Yeah. Of this year. Right. And just got back into training from that. I saw you've been in a sling and back to training now. So you still sore from? Very. Very sore. And it'll come back. Yeah. Last time. I mean, I've been training since 2011 with a double knee replacement. And so I don't... Like that's the thing he forgets to mention. Right. The double knee replacement. Yeah, I had a double knee replacement in 2011. And so I've been training with that and... So you say double knee replacement. Did they replace them both on one day? Or did they? Yes, they did. Yes. In fact, they did. Did you have it done here down in Dallas? I had it done here. Wow. Had it done, yeah. Not a sketchy. See, I need to have my hips done I'm yet to find someone who'll do both hips on the same day, which is actually what I want. I don't know if that's a good idea. This was like an insurance deal. My deductible was gonna go up and I said, listen, okay, if we can do this, you will do it. Just do it and get the misery and pain over with now. And he did and needless to say, I was pretty much completely helpless. Sure. For quite some time. Yeah, sure. So, yeah. I will enjoy you being helpless for a while. Yeah, yes. I will too. Yes. I'll get a little bell. Yeah. And here we are today. So, you know, no excuses. I can either make excuses or make gains. You can't do both, so. So I'm gonna ask a hard question, but it's something that I'm sure you've thought a lot about. Like what does the future look like for you? You know, what is your outlook on life tomorrow? And I know you can't look at even five years in the future, but what does that look like? I don't know, or do you? Yeah. No, I live one day at a time. Since I got diagnosed with cancer in 2015, my spiritual life has never been the same. Sure. My relationship with God has been better than ever. I don't know why I'm in the place that I'm in today, but he's used this journey in the last two years mildly for his glory. I've been able to encourage and bless people who made me don't even have cancer in the midst of my situation. And like I said, I've never been closer to God ever in my life than in the last two years. So I don't, again, it makes me appreciate being able to wake up each and every day, have air in my lungs, back to appreciating the small things. Sure. Okay, not taking them for granted. It's an amazing story. It's a story that I think, well, it's helping people right now. You change people's lives, man. I mean, that's the amazing piece of this is that in spite of the fact that you've been given this thing that is brutal and horrible, you've been able to turn it into something good. It's that passage in scripture that like, you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. That's right. And there is that in your story. That's right. There's no doubt. Absolutely. How do you feel about your quality of life over the last couple of years? And obviously it's not the same as being healthy, but I know one of the things that we always talk about with the strength training is that it allows people to maximize their quality of life for as long as possible. I know for me, I've watched my grandparents, some of my grandparents slowly die over the course of seven, 10 years, right? I want to live life to its fullest and then die. Right? And so what's that look like for you? What's your quality of life look like over the last couple of years with the strength training? It's actually gone up. Though there's certain things that I'm not able to do because some of my mobility is still limited and I'm honestly still busting up scar tissue from my very first surgery two years ago. My quality of life today is great, just for lack of a better word. I am able to still able to come in here and train and since this system is based on small gains over a long period of time, again, it's ideal. If I don't have it that day or I'm having a bad chemo day, then I can either stay the same or go up maybe one or two pounds that day. But the thought of ever not training or shrinking back in fear has never once crossed my mind. It's good. No, never. That's not acceptable. And it's not a good example for my son. And again, it's not a good example for anyone who's going through any type of life-threatening illness. It lets them know that no matter what you're told by who, your doctor, that you have every reason to live and stand up and fight and do the best you can do. And when you can't do very well that day, then you try again tomorrow. Yeah, it's good. So, it's an amazing story, man. I appreciate that. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been incredible having you on this week. Gosh, I love John Wilson's story. And for those of you that listened to that several years ago and remember that story, I wanted to give you an update for 2020. I talked to John yesterday and he's still fighting. He still has stage four terminal cancer. Cancer came back in both his lungs. He is on double the chemo than from what he was previously on. But he's training. He's doing rack pulls and he's about to start into squats again. His body weight's only down eight or 10 pounds. So he's trained all through it. He actually had major back surgery not that long ago, just a couple of months ago. And so, you know, if you're the praying type, send some up for John Wilson. I'm sure he would love to hear words of encouragement from you at code of many colors at ATT.net. Code of many colors at ATT.net. And John's still training, still living, still kicking, not losing much weight. And that is the attitude that he's had the entire time is he's gonna keep fighting and stay around just as long as he can. So good luck to John. Our prayers and thoughts are with you, sir.