 Let's talk about your exit plan. So how did you get out? What's that process like? One of my other huge chunks of luck was that about a year and a half after I left the movement, the only friend I had was a kid who had like kind of just dipped his toes in the movement for maybe six months. And then he's like, fuck this. I'm done with this. It was funny. I interviewed him for writing my first book. And I needed a lot of like corroboration because I was also drunk back then. I interviewed about 10 people who had been in and out with me. And I asked him like why he got out. And he's like, dude, it's really difficult to get laid being a neo-nazi. You don't go like walking up to a bunch of hot girls and be like, yeah, so the white race. He's like, I want to get laid again. Like he's a big lady's man. And he's like, it just wasn't happening in the movement. There is a sausage party. There's no girls. And for good reason. And I'm like, okay, yeah, well, that makes sense. But he was my only friend. And he was a raver. Like every Saturday night, he's going to a rave party on the south side of Chicago or up in the sticks in Wisconsin and cornfield somewhere. And I would hang out with him during the week. We sit around the house drinking and he'd like kind of, I love the beastie boys before I got in the movement. And when I got out on every one day and me and him are like just stoned out of our mind, laying on the floor of his bedroom, listening to Check Your Head by the Beastie Boys. And I was like, if this is wrong, I don't want to be right. There's a bunch of Jews playing black people music. And it's the best thing ever. And it was really like hanging out with him that kind of like reconnected me to the beauty of humanity and culture and not being afraid of these things. And the kind of the final step of it was, he was telling me about these rave parties. And I was like terrified to go because I'm like, I'm not going to the south side of Chicago. You're insane. You're out of your mind. And I don't want to dance. Like, I don't know how to dance. I just, I dance with people's heads. That's all you got to dance. And I know how to do. How am I supposed to know how to dance? He's like, dude, you just go and you just start moving. Like the bass is so loud, you got no choice. All right. It took him a while to get me to the point where I was like, one Saturday finally, I didn't want to sit by myself Saturday night. I'm like, all right, dude, where's the party? And he's like, well, there's one on the south side of Chicago, you want to drive down there? I'm like, let's go. And that was my first rave party I went to. And I literally, it was such the polar opposite of everything that I had been. It was rave has a mantra of peace, love, unity and respect. And it's something that like the OG ravers kind of laugh at tongue and cheek nowadays. But it really was about that. It was like, I go to this party at a south side of Chicago. It's 3000 people who are not only getting along and 3000 people of every possible ethnicity, sexual background, social economic background, nationality could not have been more hyper diverse. And these 3000 people are not only getting along, they're having the time of their lives. And they, there's like literally a palpable spiritual love for one another and this feeling like you're just a cell in this big organism. And I did MDMA for the first time that night. That was a huge, I'm not going to say that wasn't a factor of MDMA or ecstasy or Mali as it's known now, was developed as a psychotherapy drug for people to like kind of work past their bullshit. And it certainly worked me past my bullshit. And to the point where Saturday night I'm at these parties and I'm rocking out and I'm just, I don't even fuck. I'm just dancing like there's nobody watching. There's no tomorrow. I'm like, look like I jumped in a pool with my clothes on. I'm covered in sweat. And I don't give a shit. I'm having the best time ever. And then on Wednesday, like the drugs are long out of my system, but I'll be walking down the street on Wednesday afternoon and I'll see some dude on the sidewalk. And five years earlier, I would have just assumed jumped on this guy and beat the living fuck out of him for absolutely zero reason. And now I'd see him walking on the sidewalk and be like, that guy's my brother. I hope he's having an awesome day. Like I love him. I hope he's, I hope everything works out for him. They're like genuinely feeling that way. That was what the rave scene taught me is that it's not only possible, but like healthy and very healing to have that kind of love for other human beings. And the other thing it taught me was the power of forgiveness. There was this whole like right four sleeve now where I have this kind of kanji guy. Used to be a big pile of skulls and swastikas. And I had a bust of an SS soldier and it said white power. Like again, no mistaking what this is about. I remember sitting on the floor some filthy dilapidated warehouse at four in the morning on Sunday. And then some girl has my forearm in her lap. And she's like kind of stroking the swastika tattoo and looking at me like, and she's like, what's that about? And I'm like, well, I used to be a Nazi skinhead. I feel really bad about it. She's like, you're not anymore. Are you? And I'm like, no. And she's like, okay. That's how everybody was back then. I had gay friends. I had black friends. I had gay black friends. Like in every single one of them, even though they knew who I used to be, we're like, it don't matter who you used to be, dude. Like you're here with us now. Like Rocco and have fun. Tree some water. You look like you need, you got to be hydrated. It was, it was just, they demonstrated for me how powerful forgiveness was, how powerful compassion was. And it really like kind of began the healing process that I'm still going through and I'll be going through the rest of my life. But if it wasn't for those, for that step and I'm still friends with a ton of people from those days nowadays. And when I see them, when I talk to them, I always let them know. I'm like, dude, you help me get from there to here. And then I'll always be grateful for that. Hey, everyone. Thanks for checking out that clip. If you enjoyed it, be sure to hit the like button down below. And if you're interested in hearing the full episode, it's out right now on our YouTube channel. We've had a lot of great guests come on this show before and we've got a lot of great guests coming up in the future. So hit subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode. And one final note, we're always looking for new ideas and new companies to feature on the show. So if you know of someone or know of a company, write us a comment down below letting us know who they are and what they do. We'd be happy to have them on the show. Till then, I'll just be here waiting for your comments. So, uh, see you later.