 Welcome to the metal voice and today first time on the show Sharon Denadal all the way in Holland I'm assuming. Yes exactly. I already have one like a half day ahead of you guys. It's two o'clock here where it's eight o'clock at you guys where you live it's thank you for being here so early in the morning. Yes Bleed Out is the eighth studio album by of course Within Temptation and it was released on October the 20th 2023. We've heard it Stefan's heard it so let's get going there Stefan. I took a lot of pleasure listening to it because your album came out one drop at a time over the past three years one single two singles three singles I'm very curious why did you try to choose to sort of slowly release it sometimes bands like to hide everything and then okay let's launch this whole new 12 track record to the world you did this very very differently can you explain the other part? Yeah well we were well we are for the first time independent and of course with everything happening like the whole COVID period which we didn't know was going to last that long we wrote some new stuff before we were on a co-headline tour here in Europe with Evanescence and then you know the tour was postponed three or four times and we felt I think everyone everywhere felt a bit helpless like oh my god when I'm gonna kill the time and to do that to keep everybody busy we just released songs and kept on writing and nothing is about COVID or the pandemic but it's more about social topics in the beginning and later on about the war in Ukraine of course and and some other very important topics to my opinion but yeah we kept on releasing because after the pandemic we've also felt like okay everybody starts releasing stuff again and we still want to keep people engaged where you know normally when you release an album you have a time span of two weeks and then you release everything at once and there's one big bang which is nice but then you know after those two weeks nobody talks about you anymore and I was like yeah we had those two weeks and now continue writing and continue touring and for us it was like a time span of three years which was a bit long I do agree and too many singles but it was for a good reason and yeah next time a little bit less I guess less singles but still more than the average with a record album you know I'm really loving this album and I'm happy that you're released it piece by piece because you could digest it piece by piece and I also found it fascinating how we go to war which I'm assuming that was about the Ukraine situation here we are with another war and it's sort of pertinent to this topic is pertinent to what's happening today I mean care to comment on that yeah it's very sad that of course in the Middle East there's another you know of course it has been going on for many years and with an extreme point now again of course but that there's so many things happening in the world yeah it's terrible of course and it does well the song is actually about the Ukraine and especially before because war is forced upon you you have to defend yourself and that's what what we mean by we go to war not because we want to but it's forced upon us and um but this in the Middle East I find it also very difficult to um well it's there's two things I think I think this has been going on before I was born so it's a very difficult situation for an outsider to really understand to grasp music is of course something extremely uniting within temptation has an audience all around the world you've managed to work on every market do you feel that heavy metal is the kind of music that translates extremely well into unifying people everywhere in the world I mean it's not a genre like country music where there's a certain demographic that comes with it within temptation has been able to unite fans all around the world looking back you say oh my god never thought that people of different nation different language uh could unite around that single theme of the type of music you do well I think of course that um I think I do agree that people that the music unites but I think you can also see that in in different in different genres also but I do think what we have in common in the metal scene is maybe being a bit of an outsider we're not mainstream we are already chose not to be mainstream in a way so we are well we choose to not to be also because our heart lies in a different kind of music of course and to take that step already is already from a big group of people I guess so and I guess so in a small way I think we do know what it is to be an outsider and a bit different and maybe that unites I think it's also the fact that you like this specific kind of thing that a lot of people don't like also anyway so I think that unifies uh and therefore also is also yeah I love that also about this scene that's like we stand as one and we're united it's just the scene itself is beautiful can I open the door to one single question Jimmy yeah the song ritual has this yeah drop dropping video I gather made with the latest technology were you involved all in the process of getting that video together it's just I find it jaw dropping and the video the song and the video yeah okay well the this song is actually a more of a fun track and of course we went over top with it it's a little bit if in a situation that if you would give the same strength to women as men physically have what would they do in a certain situation when they're well you know harassed or and it was just it's just a fun again a fun track a video because we love Halloween here we don't have as much as you guys over in America we love that so we've always wanted to do a Halloween video and for us this is more like a Halloween slash slayer horror kind of thing and I think if anyone can understand that probably America does and Canada does because the tradition is there a bit bigger than we we've adopted it actually from you guys and we have now one sitting in the Netherlands I really love to do that it's called Sutomir and the whole town is whole Halloween now so it's uh and it's quite a big town as well a city the city it is and anyway um yeah um we also with like I said with the video we go over the top we take some certain things of course there's a message in there but still we had a lot of fun writing the lyrics and doing the video so over the top and it just makes people's eyebrows go up on this topic I mean I remember back in 2007 you know how has a women's role in metal evolved because there was the in 2007 it was the hottest chicks in metal tour right yeah right I mean how do you feel about that today well I was already surprised at the time that I was in the airplane when I heard the title you know that the how they announced the tour and I was like what hottest chicks in metal and I was really like I just surprised me so much because you don't have the hottest men in metal you don't have the handsome most handsome men of metal no we're the toughest but when it comes to women the sexier so of course the one who thought of that um yeah how to announce his tour um was thinking how can I say sell this tour the best well sex sells apparently and to announce it like that of course was a bit yeah I think people would think twice nowadays to give it that kind of title to a tour and um it's a compliment in a way right I mean yeah it is a compliment but it does put you in a certain corner you're not that taking that seriously maybe that's the reason why we didn't like it that much is because of course I totally agree it is to a certain degree a compliment but you want to also be taken seriously of course literally I was like and the coolest is always taken me take a seriously you don't you don't take that not seriously but they couldn't get away with a title like that today they couldn't know that's what I say yeah yeah so and things have changed and you know I do agree with all this the whole situation I love the fact that we are starting to realize how should we go about certain things better although we shouldn't know but also take it easy because sometimes things are also in this topic taken too extreme against like okay hopefully we get into the middle of the whole situation again and becomes a little bit lighter and yeah relaxed around this topic yeah I would like to be the hottest podcaster you know yeah but but that's because that's because I'm starting from down here you know and if I can get up there I'm good but I do recall in the 1980s I do recall in the 1980s uh because I'm a child of the 80s where metal well there you go metal bands in the 80s female metal bands I remember very well a girl school who were very tough looking and and certainly did not play in that image their record company tried anyway bands like vixen whose image was built around that uh and even later forward to a degree people these are artists who always resented being marketed for their feminine side as opposed to their musical style am I correct to say that the symphonic metal genre in the 1990s when it started out sort of created a radical cut from that marketing from the 80s well I don't agree because you know because most of because a different uh synonym for uh symphonic metal band is almost female fronted because especially the bands coming from the Netherlands where a lot of them were symphonic had a symphonic sound and they always most of them had a female singer and but they were very different from each other the way uh they you know implemented metal or rock was quite different with every band and so you know which like for Nightwish for instance it was a little bit more folk-based and you have Epica which is really a little bit more metal metal and then but all with females and and us you know going everywhere in the meantime going you know every album was a bit different it is strange to keep you know and also other bands like like Evanescence to put everyone on a pile like that's female fronted is is is like not going really to see what what how different they actually are of course it also helped us to be honest because because we were called female fronted it also uh well to a certain degree it also helps you of course to to be a certain category but I don't think we were a certain genre by itself because we were so different the only thing that we really had together is it's a female fronting it and you know but but's but's the fan I just want to say something to your point here it's strange because Lita Ford and all those bands that the Vixens they were all male followers but this is where the cutoff that you're talking about where you're kind of now the females have entered into the metal world and that way fans that's what I think he's trying to say oh yeah that's that is true that is true sorry I misinterpreted your question it's okay I'm here for clarifications it's it's it's it's coffee mornings well I still need to get my second one which I really need by the way so my apologies you kept referring to of course symphonic metal and other stuff but we've seen the growth of of your career you know very early on it was extremely gothic with symphony then you went more and I don't like to use the word industrial but it evolved with the harder edge sound in in the 2000s you always kept the symphonic side the back the upper like voice but ultimately you never seemed to have much of a problem to move and evolve into a much more modern sound much more identifiable to to the last decade did is it because there's been a change in the songwriting process uh no I think we've always tried to um get well we always look for new things to inspire us and there's always new bands coming around and everybody brings something new to the table and there's of course new sounds that sounds in themselves already you know evolve as well and we're always looking for a new refreshing sound that makes us sound like a band that had it's just begun you know releasing their first album more or less and of course we have our DNA with us and we try to implement all those new influences in in our own already existing DNA so yeah it's always looking for new things new bands so we keep on trying renewing ourselves if there's a new sound that we really love we try to take in a certain way that into our music but not doing that exactly but more and like combining it with what we already have and what people know us from because in the basis we just love heavy music and we love melodies because we come from the 80s right there's 80s kids so I love emotion and I love melodies that's why we're not the heaviest band around of course but I also think it's also nice that I don't have to be the heaviest and also because I'm a woman I like to also embrace my femininity and without trying to be like any guy who is in the metal scene and so it's it's a combination of a lot of things that we are who we are every time and how we evolve let me ask you this you toured with Aryan Maiden you know what was that's where we saw you actually last oh really cool you opened up for Aryan Maiden in Ottawa Canada the day before you were at Metropolis a solo show which was packed completely packed my pregnant daughter can I get a stool what did you learn like touring with Aryan Maiden what did you take away from that experience well you know they've been around has been since we were kids of course inspired by by by Aryan Maiden but also bands like them because Merilion was also a band that we love to listen to and so many you know it was the biggest compliment to being asked to go on tour with them in America because we do well in America and in in in Canada but you know they do quite a different venue than we do normally of course in yeah well so it's in Europe of course not but here it is so it was for us a compliment to be with them and to go on tour with them but what I learned mostly is their love for music and I think I think I hope to be like Steve Harris when I am his age or older still like loving music so much he breathes it he eats it he speaks it is you know he's constantly busy with music and every show that we played on stage during that tour for three weeks he was every time behind our gear looking at our show and he apparently does it with with all the support acts because I think he picks them and so he really likes a band and then he asked them on tour and he loves to see I think also the interaction of you know being a little bit thrown through to the wolves you know or the lions whatever you want to say it is like okay you have to convince an audience that is only there for Aryan Maiden to convince them that you are worthy to be in their support you know act and so it's it's and it is a nice chance I love that on the dark position myself as well because well you have to reinvent yourself just feeling the atmosphere of the venue like okay what's what's the mood what's happened just recently here and just being prepared before you go on stage okay I'm in this city and this happened just now what am I going to say to people how am I going to get them on our side as well how am I going to win their hearts you know it's like and that's the struggle which is always very cool to have as your opener up like in such a yeah iconic band as Aryan Maiden of course and I think he loves us to see that yeah favorite Aryan Maiden album and song oh my god I'm really bad come on let's go one two three one two three run to the hills is my favorite okay you've you've come I've seen you in Montreal a couple of times mostly on your own without another major act on the bill does it sort of look sensitive question but you've been on the road for almost 30 years now the concept of opening for another band when you're so established with your own following both kind of bother you like why am I still an opening act in my 50s when this is something most bands do when they start out well no I think it keeps you grounded in a way also it's a it's a very good to go back to where you once were and to understand how that's you know that like I said it's nice to fight a little bit for your own music and to be that on the dark position which we had a long time also in Europe because radio didn't want to play us and it was a little bit of you know we were a bit of a strange band because we were very melodic but too heavy for radio and you know we also had to fight if we were in a metal festival people said well they're very melodic and on the you know mainstream festival my god they're heavy you know it was always always you were always a bit how we say in Dutch it's in Dutch saying it's like the strange duck and that's how we felt always and it's nice to be remembered where we came from and we you know it's like to be in an underdog position again although I must say that most of the times the Iron Maiden fans are pretty cool to play for we had we did play also open up for other bands where it was way more difficult than Iron Maiden fans I think because they also love Melody and they love storytelling and you know Melody and Melody because when I saw you in Ottawa with Jimmy I thought you brought the whole house down that's what I remember Jimmy remember that too yes yeah yeah you did very well yes the band did very well and it was very accepted by the fans too you know and I think yeah yeah and I think there's also this political social topics that you inject into your music that people say you know what these people are a thinking band versus you know rock and roll party all night long right and I think that matters too with the Iron Maiden crowd yeah I think so too I think there's there's an overlap in that perspective yes I noticed that sorry the new album you went without a record company most people would say well what's a record company these days anyway I mean there's no record stores but that obviously took an awful lot of courage self-promoting when you're no longer with a record label becomes very difficult tell us about this was this a personal choice or you felt that the state of the music business allows you to simply be unattached to a label well we've been around of course for 27 years already and we've worked with different record companies and we couldn't you know we watched over their shoulders always like what are they doing and how are they doing it so we learned in the meantime and felt confident enough to make this choice also because they didn't want to you know times are changing I think I see a lot of music genres where they release in a different way than the traditional rock and metal music is being released where you have like one or two singles or three maybe and then you have the whole album being released and when we talked to our record company at the time it's like okay we want to do it differently we want to maybe do some little bit more singles in the moment that we feel that it a certain you know something is happening in the world and we want to write about it and we want to release them immediately because if it ends up on an album three years later it won't matter anymore and for us it's very important to be talking about the subjects which are important for us in the moment so I think we had the best time ever when this pandemic happened that we were able to do so to be more flexible because they would not have really let us release more than three singles otherwise and we went we well we went our different ways in a very friendly way they had one more option to bring out an album and we didn't want it anymore because they said we can't do it and yeah I think they had well they you know we always had a good relation with them so we felt I think they well we just decided to go both different ways and they knew it wasn't possible yeah it's also sorry to cut you off it's marketing artistic vision and publishing I would say those are the three main things that the record company just can't provide artists anymore or at least not as much it is the publishing a big thing now you're independent you own your own publishing I'm assuming you're right all of it's yours yeah all of it's ours and that's also very nice to be honest that with the ghost and it goes a big chunk of course to a record company and you don't of course you get in advance and those kind of things but you don't now it takes time to well to get your your publishing back at a certain time and but everything almost everything we have already back now which is also nice that we are able to do and release whatever we want from the past without asking permission every time because your videos people don't understand this you get millions of hits yeah we do your spotifies in the millions as well and all this is money now being filtered to your band versus to you know a third party or a record label whatever the case may be yeah and but now we can spend it on the promotion and everything that we think we need or an extra video or and everything costs of course a lot of money and time to organize because we have now we hired everybody ourselves now it's like you know all the promotion people everything we've done but we do work with a distribution who does get a part of what we're earning of course with this album which is very because you can't do everything so the distribution is of course needed distributions the deal and I do not recommend this to every band especially when you're starting this is not something you want to do you need to build up something you need to learn how to well learn from the record companies that you have been with and don't sign more than two albums if you're able to because then you can go away and do it on your own later on which is a good thing I think I'm curious also uh you will I gather go back on the road promoting this new album same set list with a few new songs from the new album looking at doing something different this time well you know not every song has been played live that we have on the album I think there's like five five songs we didn't play live yet and maybe we'll release also some new things along the way before the tour starts I'm not sure we're looking forward to start writing again there's enough to write about again so it's it's it's always inspiring to look at the world and and see what's happening so maybe we'll release something before the time I'm not sure it depends with how well we succeed in that as well but we mostly gonna focus on making a new stage for the new new tour because the tour doesn't really start until next year around this time and we need time to well because we do that ourselves as well it's like four months at least thinking about what you want to have on stage what kind of lightning what are the cost the specs you know every venue is different so there's a lot of work and this is mostly done by Robert and he has his own artist team that actually works with him and things along what we are able to do to fix to make because the head that we had on the stage in Europe that was made by artists that made every piece by hand metal and it was yeah it was really done in a very spectacular way I yeah why are you waiting a year to go back on the road usually a new album you want to promote it heavily and and and hit the road as quickly as possible yeah another way of going against the grain well we have been you know because of the covid situation we had to catch up a lot of shows and also we had to had a lot of a lot of festivals so since last year summer last year like started in june and until December halfway December we were finished with all the touring so it was a long long run and in a bit in between we were recording writing and so I came home this this winter last last winter after christmas and my my husband said well actually Daniel that's our producer it's going to be on the doorstep tomorrow I said what yeah yeah we're going to start recording the next two weeks we don't finish lyrics yet what are you doing so yeah well where's my laptop I said it's like I'm going to go which one is the third is which one won't take that much that's which one will buy me time you know and since that moment from january till I think well up to now I've been promoting recording and finishing songs and it was such a intense long time so we felt like we need a break from everything also most bands actually do announce their tour always a year ahead also because a ticket price that went up people having time to buy a ticket if they really want to and instead of pushing them within two months to buy something all right so on that note yes bleed out is the eight studio album that was just released pick it up next year you're on tour I'm assuming in 2025 a new album correct uh yeah maybe I'm gonna aim for that's gonna try that let's aim for that okay on that note thank you very much within temptation Sharon Den Adele thank you so much for your time thanks for being on the show and we look forward to seeing you on tour thank you very much for having me thank you Sharon uh if you give me a second my daughter just texted me something here she says the iron is I'm translating from French iron is the song that you put on when you prepare an epic fight in your head I'll take her word for it comment on that um well it is yeah yeah I can relate to that yes it's it's um and also the video was a little bit but has some references to that so um it's fighting to stay on the right path a bit yeah all right there you go keep it in your set list okay I will I'll tell the boys to prepare themselves your daughter's got the last word there's the fact thank you so much you're welcome