 need to record the, when we do the live stream, it captures it on YouTube. Well, I'm not recording. I was talking about it. Okay. But I'll say, I'll say you was hosting just one second. I'll drop the YouTube live stream here. Okay. We're live now. Fantastic. Okay. Yes, so welcome. I'm just going to run through a couple different housekeeping things. Just a reminder that here at Hyperledger, in the community, we follow an antitrust policy. There's a notice in the link in the meeting description if anybody wants to take a look at it. We also follow the Hyperledger code of conduct. So keep that in mind. There's always a link for that as well if you want to learn more about that. I want to take a quick moment. We have a great speaker this afternoon or this morning or wherever you are. But before I introduce her, I wanted to introduce any, keep an opportunity for any new members to introduce themselves. Anybody that we might have on the call? Okay. I can introduce myself. This is Heidi von Korf. I'm with Electricity in France. I work in the Innovation Lab in Los Altos, California. I work on different topics around blockchain and IoT. So excited to be here. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you for joining. Is there anybody else out there? I can introduce myself. I'm Joshua Brunig. I work with essentially a nonprofit organization, a conservation organization. We are developing a new project that involves the climate crisis and the blockchain. And we are trying to find how to integrate this the most effective way. So I just kind of came across this on some things looking into the blockchain and think it might, I mean, everything is good information. So I'm excited to be here and learn more, maybe see what we can do to work together possibly. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for joining. Just to kind of give everybody who's new is a good idea. We have a getting started page that kind of walks through some of our recommendations for getting involved with the community and some of the different resources we have. So we hope to be a good resource to you and hope to learn from you as well. Are there any other anybody else on the call? It's just one quick note, Sherwood. For the people who are new, I dropped a link to the group's mailing list in the chat. It's an open forum, so please feel free to subscribe, introduce yourself and join the discussions, and then you'll get notifications of future meetings if you're on that list too. Fantastic. Okay. Great. Well, I'll go ahead and give a quick introduction to Veronica Garcia. I was kind of really interested to see she had a really quite an interesting journey and she's currently working on a really interesting project. She originated with doing investment consulting at Credit Suisse and UBS, and then she started working at IBM Research Lab, which many of us are familiar with. She's also worked as a consultant for the World Bank, IADB in Castelio. So a lot of really interesting organizations there. And so her research is focused on renewable energy technologies and quantifying investment needs to reach the country targets for renewable power generation. And so that makes a lot of sense because of the organization that she's going to share with us now, BitLumens, which is bringing solar power and water to rural areas using IoT and blockchain. So I expect this to be a really interesting presentation and I'm very thankful for her being here. And with that, I'll hand the floor over to you. Thank you so much for the kind introduction, Sherwood. As you mentioned, we are combining a few technologies and bringing them into rural communities, mainly to tackle the climate disclosure issues, transparency, traceability of data, and how we can make this type of technologies in a way that are really cost effective. So try to minimize costs. In particular, we are looking at ONM costs, minimization. So the problem we are trying to solve is one that involves millions of people in rural communities, where whatever you have, for instance, a mini grid in place, sometimes there is lack of reliable data, mainly for energy planning. Grades lack also of remote monitoring. And sometimes you have either intermittent access to electricity or no electricity at all. And then you are also at the intersection of no banking services around these communities. And the impacts are lower productivity, blackout and tampering, an increase in CO2 emissions over time, and no access to financial services. So what we have decided to do is we have built our own smart meter. And the smart meter is connected to a software as a service that I will explain during this presentation. The idea of bringing this smart meter is to connect it at the solar plant, so it's a master meter, but it's also a slave type of meter, where we can send information on generation and consumption and allow for demand management, meaning users can get access to, you know, what is their consumption, so they will get an SMS and understand how much they are going to pay in the next week. If people don't pay or if people get above their load limit, then they will get locked. Okay, the system locks and unlocks with a payment or unlocks after the issue with the load limit has been fixed. So these two variables are extremely important because in areas that don't have this type of smart meter and devices, if you have for instance one or two nodes that go above their load limit, there is also a risk of a blackout in the whole grid. So what we are trying to do is really bring these smart meter devices mainly to avoid sending agents all the time into the ground and to check what is wrong and which household was provoking this type of object. It's coming through a little garbled. David, any trouble shooting ideas? Well, you sound okay, Sherwood. I don't know if it's the call in general. It might just be on Veronica's end. I don't know. Can't let us share others. What's the audio for you? Yeah, I think it could be that it wasn't my end. Do you hear me now? Sounds better now. Okay, okay, perfect. Okay, if you don't hear me, please write me something on the chat because at one point I got frozen. But anyway, so what I was saying is that part of this information goes into the blockchain we are using Hyperledger 2.2. And then part of it will go into the cloud. And I will explain what goes on the chain and what we have decided to go in the cloud. So the clean energy access market according to the World Bank is more than 220 billion of investments that it's going to be deployed into more or less 210,000 mini-greets worldwide, hopefully serving the 22% of the world population but lack of electricity access. Apparently the cumulative rate, average rate of return is more than 9%. So I think there is a very good use case for businesses to enter into this type of sector. When it comes to what is going on the blockchain, I want to introduce this particular example where we have the smart meter data, mainly consumption, and we also have the payment management system included in there, meaning we manage, for instance, the bills of the users. So this is, of course, shared with the user and shared with the power plant. We run a calculation on the blockchain, mainly of what is the carbon mitigation of those communities. For instance, right now in India, I will show a slide afterwards. In India, we're trying to tackle things like IREX because of the system that exists over there. But the idea is to work with power plants that are like three megawatts, have a three megawatt capacity or more than that. The certifying authorities do not really look at us if we are not working already with these type of power plants. When it comes to carbon offsets, however, we see something like five megawatt capacity and above. So the process will be completely different for each of these two mechanisms. As I mentioned before, after the calculation in the blockchain takes place, we have a third party partner that it's going to certify this type of calculation and provide later on the verification of it. So then we can actually tokenize this. The idea is that we should be able to do this for all the decentralized energy sources that are going to come into play into the energy market in the future. Like, for instance, EV vehicles and their batteries will be a node that can feed the grid. And so for that to happen, that flexibility that do not currently exist will need to exist. And if it exists, we need better smart technologies in place to do things like balance and control as well. The same applies for industrial agriculture, where you can have sensors in place sending data to it could be either the blockchain or the cloud, where we can actually also certify that, for instance, those communities are producing something. And then within the trades trace the whole thing in the supply chain. So the whole production will be on chain. And then for houses is the use case I just described before, mainly for the smart metering device. I want to mention here that the smart meter that we had created, we had also included our own Lora network. And the Lora network is sending information, the limit of sending data, it's a little higher than with the public one. So then the idea is to send everything all the data is in bulk in the gateway, and then from the gateway is sent to the to the blockchain. In the future, one of the projects we have in the pipeline is to do that on the edge and see how that works and see if it's actually more efficient. So here that we have the map that I was mentioning before, and we are currently focusing in places like India, or Mexico, where we are planning to start some pilots this year. And for that reason, we want to really focus on on IREX. So the carbon taxes scheme is is increasing over time. As we see in this map, there are 64 different carbon taxes and ETS in operations. To us, it's really important to be in this sector, because we do believe that carbon pricing is going to increase over time. Our carbon budget, we have a carbon budget to really minimize within 10 to 15 years. So I do believe new technologies would have to really take over existing technologies. And this could create a negative supply shock, because the existing technologies would have to be taken out of the economy before they finalized their living period. So for me, it's extremely important to bring these smart metering devices and to tackle how we can minimize these carbon emissions and how we can bring transparency into the sector with the aim of, yes, climate disclosures, but at the end we need investments into this type of technologies. So this is something I showed before I will not get into it. But this is an example of a platform that we have created, where this part here, the carbon mitigation calculation, it's on kilograms per megawatt hour, is actually running on hyperledger fabric. The idea of this is to really provide the calculation to the certifying authority, and then later on be able to token, I said, and enter into the marketplace. Kamlesh, I will let you take over for the next four slides. Please go ahead. Yeah, hi. So I'm Kamlesh from Ismafita Tech, and part of this technology, part of the bitlements project. So in the architecture, you can see there's a bitlements platform, and there's a micro grid provider. So that setup grid and the smart bitters setup here, and there is a, to do the wallet payment and recharge for the solar electricity, there could be agent, and there could be directly via pay cash, or maybe some via some kind of credit transfer. And all this we are recording on the fabric, and even the details about the consumer, like their GDP, their economy, and what kind of electricity consumer they are, like they are using the kerosene, they are using the normal electricity, all we are recording. And in the diagram, another different stakeholder, which could be part, like there is a micro lender, banks, government, NGOs, like maybe suppose the NGOs could pay on behalf of the users, electricity consumption. So these are the couple of stakeholders in the platform. So next slide. Okay. And this is the hyper ledger fabric architecture. So currently, we set up with the two organizations, and currently it's belong to the bitlements. So whenever there are any micro grid provider want their own node, this node can be added. And there's a three draft node services and running on the fabric 2.2. And fabric certificate authority being used to carry the certificate and credential for this complete fabric structure. And there are three different smart contract. One is smart contract to kind of identity of the users. Another smart contract for the recording the payment details on the ledger. And third is about calculating the carbon emission out of the energy consumption. And so all three smart contract running on the fabric ledger on the bitlements channel. And all is written go. And then to connect with the network, we get the rest of set of rest APIs to directly interact with the network, interact with the certificate authority, interact with the channels. And then this API is integrated with the bitlements front end application. And this is deployed as a cloud deployment of the AWS cloud. Okay, next slide. You're on mute. For some reason, I cannot move to the next. Give me a second, Kamlesh. So yeah, so the question like focus is the meter and credit. So yeah, so to get the details about the energy consumption and unlock and unlock the smart meter rather, their payment and their status of their wallet. So to this one. And credit is very important to calculate the carbon emission and carbon offset credit for the energy consumption. And then this is the next part we are thinking. So like we recorded all the energy consumption and calculate the carbon offset. The next part is to calculate the token. And we are thinking to create the ERC 20 token. And maybe layer to Ethereum network, or maybe we can like because our fabric also support the token standards in the fabric itself. Maybe we can consider to use that fabric token SDK, which is recently configured by IBM. So here we will consume the carbon offset and energy consumption data recorded on the fabric laser and create the mint the token and then token could be available to buy and redeem from the bit lumens platform. So we are not going to list on the tokens on the sub kind of cryptocurrency exchange. It will be the other token will be part of the bit lumens platform and any institutional buyer can buy it from there. And after the buyer buy the token, they can redeem it after consumption and kind of offsetting their carbon actual emissions. I want to mention an important piece in here that I think it's a very interesting use case, right? So when you, I mean, nowadays we could have different SMEs, a conglomerate of SMEs that get together and try to mitigate carbon emissions over time, get a token and also issue, let's say, a bond on the blockchain. And this bond can actually, so one could pay for the coupon either in fiat currency or with the token itself. I think this is something that we are going to look at in the future because it follows very much what we have seen in Brazil, for instance, with the forestry type of bonds or with the green bond system that I think it's extremely complex to follow because of the reporting that it needs. But then if you have certain SMEs, really small companies that get together and try to issue a bond on chain and then the coupon can be paid with these tokens, that could be a really interesting use case and it's something that we are looking at as a next step. So now we focus on the piloting and then later on, we will focus on how to issue debt on the chain. Nisonia, I think you have a question. Should we take questions now? Yeah, the question is the focus is the meter and the credit. Oh, okay. Just a second. Well, the focus is the smart meter and then the credit score of the end user, meaning the person that it's actually consuming electricity. Since we know when the meter is locked and unlocked, we also see the payment patterns. And this is important mainly in rural communities because there is not enough data. I mean, most of these users don't really get any type of financial track record. So the idea would really be to provide them with this type of certification, which is KYC payment data and when is the smart meter locked and unlocked. So these communities might not have a cell phone to have an identity, right, running on the chain, but they have a smart meter. So then with the smart meter and a particular idea on the smart meter that is also on the blockchain, we can provide these users with somehow a financial track record and bring companies like Peerland, for instance, into play, which is a company that does peer to peer type of micro loans and for to increase the productivity of those regions, this is really important. Kamlesh, sorry about the interruption. Please go ahead. Yeah, so yeah, it's clear. And that's why in the architecture we have a micro lender is one of the entity. So on the basis of the credit score, micro underscame kind of micro lender, some kind of fun to the users. So I think we have the next slide to write. Yeah, yeah. Yes, hold on a second. We have this one that it's, I think, the one you were explaining before, but I couldn't change. Yeah. So you could see there are two different platforms here. So this is the one is kind of left side, which is a build on the hyper layer fabric to record the energy consumption, credit score and payment transactions via the three different smart contracts. And the left side use the data of all payment and credit score and the carbon option and create the tokens out of it. And this token could be readable on the bitlumint platform, not on the cryptocurrency platform. So and then it could be by any institutional buyer can buy it and they can redeem it on the platform. So after the buyer offset the carbon emission, the token will be burned or kind of because the token will be redeemed. So this is the thing actually. Okay, I think we have covered that and I want to mention two additional pieces. One of them is most smart meters that exist in rural communities that are let's call it pay as you go. So prepaid type of meters. They need for instance, a vending machine or a certain code to unlock them. We do that remotely, meaning you can go into a shop that has a smartphone. That particular shop will enter your smart meter ID in the system and send the funds directly to the let's say the smart meter and unlock it. So this is a great use case to for instance, I'm an NGO and I want to pay for the electricity of some of these rural communities. I can do it by unlocking their devices remotely. So this is I would say the quite unique use case that could open the door for some additional investment into those communities. Thank you Alfonso. Let's see the questions. Who else has a question? I know that but okay. So I don't know if anyone else has questions because I see some comments, but not real questions. I didn't understand what is the dark curve? I don't know what the dark curve is to be honest. Yeah, me too. Stephen, can you please tell us or explain us a little bit of this question if it's a question? So I think just in the Wikipedia, is there some kind of well-known vocabulary in the renewable energy space? Kind of power production over the course of a day that shows the timing imbalance between the peak demand and the renewable energy production. I don't know how to relate to this one. So Elisa, but I'm happy to share this map with you. No problem. Anyone else that has a question? I do. I really kind of like how you are tying in the ability to build credit, the ability to share information with the energy sector and kind of the idea that they're selling their energy use back. I just love that and I love that creativity in just the business model. I'm curious, as you're taking this to market, what do you foresee the biggest, it's kind of a two-part question, what do you foresee the greatest challenges of taking something like this to market and scaling it? And the second piece I am curious about is what are the stakeholders that you'll be engaging with? Like what are the key stakeholders at a very high level and kind of what ideally are you, how can they help you and how can they help you kind of bring this to market scale? Yeah, great questions Sherwood. Thank you for that. So look, we are combining different technologies and each of these technologies and use cases have a different set of policies and regulations that one has to comply with, right? And this is really important. I want to mention that we chose India as a market because they have really high renewable energy targets. I believe it's 175 gigawatts by 2022 and 450 by, I believe, 2030. Okay, so right now only solar is 4% of the capacity within India, meaning we will need trillions of dollars in investments within the next 20 years to really be able to comply with the goals they have signed for. So, you know, the investment piece is important, the policies are extremely important, but the level of digitalization that the Indian market has is fabulous, right? They have at her number, they have a set of, let's say, payment systems that are already online, right? If I go to Latin America in a rural community, no chance anyone will do an online payment. In India they do, so there is a huge advantage to really pilot this type of technologies. Our main customers are power plants, mainly renewable power plants, right? So, what we really have to do is comply with the regulation that lies on things like the BIS, you know, that regulates the smart meters, and that's quite complex. So, the smart meter we had produced, it's designed and manufactured according to the Indian rules, and that's really important to mention. So, the next step is to pilot, and we have to pilot not only the hardware, but the communication piece, right? Because Laura works usually really well, but does it work in areas where there are, I don't know, too many trees in place? You know, we don't know this type of barriers because we have tested in the lab. So, I think this, all this, I would say it's all into regulation. And then the stakeholders that we are looking at are, you know, development banks, entities that would like to pilot with us the technology and share knowledge. I think that's really key. And right now, as I mentioned before, we have three different pilots in the pipeline. So, what we are doing right now is fundraising, so we can, you know, try to manufacture and get the funds that we need for manufacturing, and to hire some additional engineers. I think someone else has a question here. Oh, thank you, Nisoni. So, there are questions regarding the, what is the question? Regarding the, does any NGO have a program to pay only when a user cannot pay more in it, or is it a disaster? No, not really. So, what I call this, it's a remittance as a service, right? And the beauty of that is that I don't have to be a financial entity, so I don't have to be regulated as a bank because someone sends money to a machine and you get a service on the other end. If someone gets cash, then I would need to be a bank. So, to answer your question, no, it's not only on a disaster, or if someone cannot pay for the electricity. I would call it, it's more of a remittance as a service. Another question that you already addressed, you would like, how does the third party responsible for verifying the carbon credit actually go about verifying the credit without sending workers into the city? Without what, sorry? Oh, workers, yeah, yeah. So, what this, look, what verifying authorities actually want to see is they want to understand that our sensors work well, they want to understand and meet actually with the power plant, and then later they usually would certify it, and they would also bring it into the market. But of course, I mean, it depends on the services they give and how one pays for them. But just in a nutshell, that's the process. It looks like there's another question, there's a question from Elizabeth Green. Does any NGO have a program to pay only when a user can't pay or there's a disaster? Well, actually, you know, development banks and a few NGOs I do know would do that. But they, some of them, whenever we tell them it's related to blockchain, they don't really like the idea because they usually would link it to cryptocurrencies. This is one important piece that I want to mention. It's not all unicorns and pink out there when you say blockchain, you work with blockchain. So it has been, I would say, a little bit challenging on that end. But yes, there are some NGOs that would be working with us in the future after the first pilots have been implemented. Thank you. Thank you. Another question from Alex. Ivan Howard. How does a third party responsible for verifying the carbon credits actually go about verifying the carbon credits without sending workers into the field? I'm sorry, Alex. Yeah. Yeah, I just answered that question. Yeah. I'm sorry. Thank you. I was busy reading through the questions. That's why I missed it. My apologies. So the proof of concept, it's right now here in Switzerland. But as I mentioned before, within this year, we should be able to pilot it in India, Mexico and Bolivia. Regarding, do you have a carbon token yet? No, we don't have a carbon token yet. Right now, we have the calculation running in Hyperledger Fabric 2.2. And then Kamlesh will be doing the tokenization piece. But I'm waiting for some of my team members to give me the correct process for that. Because I'm not entirely sure how we are going to do it and how is this going to be accepted and standardized, I would say. Kamlesh, you can answer that question. How much does it cost to run the blockchain? So that actually depends like how many organizations and nodes you are running on the system. So it depends. Yeah. And I also want to say we were using before public Ethereum, and it was quite costly. Before, we were working with solar home systems. So we didn't really care if the transaction you know, went through after 24 hours. But having a smart meter and big power plants, you do want the transaction to go fast. And therefore, that's one of the reasons why we decided to stick to Hyperledger. Yeah. Okay. So when it comes to India that has specifically prohibited cryptocurrencies regarding tokenization. So if you tokenize and you bring it into the open market, a market that it's running on chain, I just don't see how that could be prohibited. And I also don't see that we are going to be, you know, violating any rules if this is not done in India. Okay. Any additional questions that I? I do. I was curious if you could share a little bit more about you referred to the, I think the power stations. Um, can you kind of explain a little bit about the ecosystem? Because I'm thinking, you know, smaller renewable mini grid operators, I'm kind of thinking like small villages that kind of together have have some sort of, you know, total tech, you know, panel structure. What does that ecosystem look like? And, you know, when you're, because you're trying to support almost this kind of decentralized development of kind of an energy system, which I would kind of think it would be a direct threat to some of the large power generators. Potentially. I don't know. Is there is, what is that environment like? Is it an adversary relationship? Do you find that? I think I tell you what we have seen at least in Switzerland. Yeah. In Switzerland, I, I believe that the energy system, the whole power sector, is going to go through huge changes. Okay. Simply because if you, if every household around me has a battery and I'm, and my battery is full, and I know that the grid is going to pay me because I'm going to fit the grid at certain times during the day, because in peak hours, I don't want to run my car, for instance, and I could get access to that additional revenue. Then to me, those are additional notes that will contribute to the feeding of the system. And this will also provide additional decentralized energy sources. It will provide additional flexibility, additional volatility. And therefore, smart devices, as I mentioned before, would need to do balance and control. And for that, we are trying to partner right now with the, the ETH here in Zurich to really build algorithms and use cases around that particular piece, right? Because the, in that particular case, I think that peer to peer trading and, and, and financial transactions will make a lot of sense because you don't have to wait until the power grid pays you, right? It could be done pretty much immediately. If you don't have that piece in the system, you could get paid maybe after, I don't know, one month or 60 days in the US, sometimes it's even 90 days. So I do believe that even mini grids in sub-urban areas could become charging stations. Okay. And this adds again, more of these decentralized use cases of energy use. Right. So you're just not going to, you're not really dependent on the, that's a centralized energy providers because it's going to become a decentralized market. It's going to evolve. I don't see that, I don't see that the whole thing will become decentralized. I think that will be extremely challenging. But I do believe that this type of decentralized energy sources will allow for use cases that we have not really seen until now, or that we have seen in a very small scale, right? But one of the challenges that I think that you were mentioning before and you asked, and, and, and I do believe that we need that. We don't have really standardized regulatory system to run all of these new use cases. You know, you see in Switzerland, they're doing something, then in Thailand, something else, Australia, something else, you know, the US, complete different use case. So for startups, I think it's quite tough to, to scale in that way. So that's, that's a really interesting question. That's something that we think a lot about the standards issue. And so I'm always curious to get different people's perspectives. This is a much higher level of altitude. But what, who's, how does that happen? There needs to be kind of, there needs to be a meeting of minds about standards issues in a lot of different industries, not just energy. Who drives that? How does that happen? I will give you my personal opinion. Okay. I do believe that in areas like, let's, let's say Latin America has a huge advantage in that respect. Because let me put you this use case. I, for instance, could be talking to a mini grid in a rural community in a place in Latin America in the middle of nowhere. And the energy ministry is behind and the owner of that particular mini grid. And so they tell me, Veronica, you come and you install this type of technology and we run pilots with it. And then we demonstrate and see how we can scale in the country with that. Right. So if the, the owner of the power plant is the government, you, you do have a huge advantage when it comes to business development and standardization, right? Because they are adopting that and they are giving you a green card to really pilot and share data with them and standardized, right? Look at the use case in Chile, where you have the power sector and they have standardized the data within the power sector because they were, they were thinking that more hacks are going to happen and they don't want that, you know, they, they will not want to pay the ransom in this case. So then they, they just develop their, their, their whole use case on the chain. I believe they are using Ethereum though, but, you know, that's, that's an example. And other countries like Costa Rica are following suit. So they are trying to do exactly the same. So that kind of brings me to thinking about India. You mentioned that there's a really, there's really good digital infrastructure there. Is that due to the Indian government? And are you finding, are you finding that there's good ways to integrate with them and work with them? Is there kind of a good, like, is there a good system for engaging with them? Oh, I'm sorry, Veronica, I'm, I'm, you're breaking up again. Sorry. All right. Perhaps if you shut your video off, Veronica. Yeah, you can ask question again, maybe I will try to address. Yes. So I was, I was just asking about this question of, of, of the Indian government. And it sounds like there's a really strong digital infrastructure that Veronica mentioned. And I'm just curious, you know, is that due to, to support from the Indian government? And that leads to my second question, which is, you know, how has your experience been integrating with them? Is there a good process for, for kind of engaging that particular stakeholder? Yeah. So, so in India, there is a really nice, nice initiative in terms of renewable energy adoption. There are huge projects in the rural area around them, maybe the wind energy or solar energy. And they are engaging the even, even, you know, the power ledger, one of the power renewable energy blockchain based system. They're also working with a couple of western governments in India to implement the peer to peer electricity trading on the blockchain based system. So yeah, government support and government want to adopt the new technology. That's why they are engaging the startups and the tech companies to enable that digital infrastructure. Great. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to answer in that. So sorry, my internet, I honestly don't know what happened. Sorry about that. It looks like Alex has two questions. Hold on a second. Alex, if you're there, I can read them. Alex, you want me to? Yes. Can you, can you please read them? Thank you. He says, Sherwood mentioned during the intro that you're working on water too. What is the idea there and how far are you with the development there? Did I mention that? Yeah. Yeah. So, Alex, thank you so much for that question. At the very beginning, we started actually with the use case of solar water pumps. Okay. But as we develop the software, it has been extremely challenging to find companies that would like to adopt the software and therefore include also some of the smart devices that we need to lock and unlock the system. So that's a use case that we have pending since months now in Senegal, actually. We have the community of women ready to adopt this, but we don't have the solar pump to work with. So, you know, if anyone in this chat knows a good provider, please let me know. I have tried to touch base with a few and it was extremely difficult. I think Alex had one additional follow-up. What are the possibilities of lending money to a householder to turn for feeding electricity to the grid? In other words, the household repays are loaned by signing their future carbon credits off to the lender. I think that that could be a really interesting use case. One would need to operate in areas that that's allowed, you know, and I am not sure. I believe that in that particular, well, that would have to be done through a micro lender, right? Exactly like we are doing now. We have micro lenders that would like to provide micro loans to these rural communities. But I mean, I think that could be a very, very interesting use case. One that we have not developed or were thinking of developing. Oh, thank you. Great. So, any additional questions that I don't see? Sure. Nizoni, no. Okay. Okay. Oh, yeah, it looks like there's one from Nizoni. Yeah, sorry. Not a direct question. I'm actually having a really hard time because I'm over here exploding with with concept ideas, use cases, because we our projects could fit almost directly into this with you guys. And I don't want to take up too much of your presentation time here. And that's why I'm just like, my hand keeps going up and down. I'm just like, Oh, my God, this is like amazing. So just really, if we could connect at the end of this somehow make like a direct connection of some sort, because we are currently developing some things that could solve some of those problems as well and use this technology directly on on where we're at in the world. And it could be hugely beneficial not not only for the government, the company, the people and our project and your project, everything. I really there are many pieces here that that just fall into place with your project and ours. And this is this is amazing. Yeah, this could definitely this could definitely turn big big game changer here. So I won't take any more of your time. But no, thank you so much. I see that you're passionate during my team. Thank you so much. Definitely. Okay, anyone else that want to ask questions? I mean, I think the technology is pretty straightforward, to be honest. The really complicated part arises from the regulatory side. And yes, and there are a few, a few additional features that we are working on that I want to mention here. It's it's not out yet. We are managing some data that the EU was really kind enough to send us. It's on satellite imagery. So what we are going to do next is try to see how we can combine that data also on the chain. To really start labeling how investments are flowing towards greener technologies. And, you know, based on the goals that the politicians have set, right. So to me, it's really important that yes, there are a lot of reporting schemes that are out there that financial companies and companies can actually work with, like the TSTFC, but, you know, at the end of the day, the carbon budget is one, and you can see that from satellite imagery. And, you know, you can do as much reporting as you want. I don't think reporting will solve much. It's important to have it. But I mean, at this point, it's really important that we don't have a macroeconomic problem. And I do think that we could face one easily, because we are not taking into account, you know, the risks that this will involve if we don't really commit to what we need to commit pretty soon. Alex also asked, are you guys at Bellumans currently looking for more developers? Are there perhaps also any other ways in which one can get involved with your work? Absolutely, Ivan. I will drop here my email. You can write me an email. And happy to connect with you. Oh, what is going on with my, well, it's out. Yeah, there you go. Than everyone else has said. Awesome. So I think I will stop sharing the presentation. If anyone else has any questions, I'm happy to answer those. Otherwise, by email, I'm also reachable. Well, thank you very much for running. This has been a fantastic presentation. Very clear. It's a really important area. And I love the, I just, again, I love the creativity, the technology use, the business model use. And I love that you've got such a big vision and you're kind of spearheading in such an important area. So it's great to hear stories like this for us. It's great to see some movement in the action. So thank you so much for joining us. It's been really great. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. I'm a big fan of the group and I'm always reading you guys. Sorry that I'm not extremely involved all the time, but I'm really a big fan. I am. I am. I think you are involved in your own way in the industry and the space. So you're definitely driving things forward. Thank you for that. Thank you. I'll make just a couple quick last minute calls. We're going to be cutting this one short at the hour because I need to visit. There's a meeting coming up that I actually highly recommend other people to join. It's about, it's a call to strengthen open collaboration among all hyperledger working groups, specialist groups and chapters. And so it's just about figuring out how we can kind of work better within the hyperledger community. I'm going to join it. And I highly recommend everybody else join it. We usually extend 30 minutes into kind of the next hour. But I don't think anybody else is going to be here to host that call. So unfortunately, I don't think we'll be able to do that. I also wanted to and also put a link into the chat for anybody who wants to join that. One last thing I wanted to mention, we were invited to speak last week at the UNEP digital discovery session. It was a session on open digital infrastructure for global climate innovation and global climate accounting. And Martin Weinstein joined and we have a link to the presentation there. And I thought especially, it was really great to listen to Martin share his vision for a global climate accounting framework. And I think this, it's something, it's a global operating system. So it affects everybody. And so it's a really great opportunity to kind of hear his thoughts as someone who's kind of pushing forward this new field. So I highly recommend that. And I will try to find the link on the session starting in about two minutes. One second. I have a quick question. Who can I contact about learning more about hyperledger? Would that be you Sherwood or somebody else? Yeah, you can reach out to me. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. I'll put my email in the chat. One second. And Veronica, what was your email again? I didn't see it in the chat. You didn't? Oh, I thought I put it. Okay. Hold on a second. I've come to send it to everyone. Let me, let me reshare it with you, Haiti. Give me a second. Okay. I see. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. No problem. Okay. So I put a link into the upcoming event that's happening just about now and also my email for happy to answer any questions. And with that, I'm going to go ahead and close out the session. Thanks again, everybody for joining. And yeah, fantastic. Thank you so much, Sherwood. The other event is happening here or do we go to LinkedIn? You go to LinkedIn and there should be an invitation there to figure out how to join. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. Welcome. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.