 Next question is from basic white girl. Yeah, I didn't even pick up on the name, I like that. People like Ben Greenfield argue that diets high in glycemic variability are quite detrimental when it comes to burning body fat. What are your thoughts on this? Is it valid or just splitting hairs? I'm glad you picked this, Sal. This is a really good conversation and we have friends like Ben Greenfield and Lane Norton who are like- Opposed. Yeah, I'm vehemently opposed. Yes, on this. And the truth is, they're both right. And I think that's the, instead of jumping in a camp on one or the other and getting on board with all Lane on this or getting on board with Ben and like it's the end all be all, there's something that you need to understand that when you talk about something like this, and this is kind of like how Mind Pump talks, right? When we talk, we're always thinking of the general population and the behaviors of most people. And in that context, I think what Ben says has a lot of validity. I really do, you know, because most people eat this way. Most people do not track their calories and live in a caloric deficit most of them, which is where you'll hear the argument from Lane's side. Lane will be like, listen, if you're in a calorie deficit all things are equal, testing a group of people out then none of this shit matters. Eat sugar, have high glycemic foods. If you're 300 calories lower than your maintenance every single day none of that matters, you're completely fine. And that's true, but the reality is who the fuck does that all the time? That's the big thing here. You have to, okay, you can't just look at diet from a mechanistic point of view, which is the whole, you're in a calorie deficit, you hit your macros, it doesn't matter if it's high glycemic and low glycemic. Yes, that's true, but you can't look at diet that way because that's not the reality of real life. One of the benefits I would say are advantages of being a personal trainer for 20 years, training lots of everyday people is you get to see the mechanistic stuff, but you also get to see how that affects long-term behaviors, how people act. And here's the truth, high glycemic index carbohydrates tend to make people feel crappy and want to eat more. Okay, so yeah, if you're a robot and you just plug in the program and that's it, you're probably gonna be, it really doesn't matter then too much between high glycemic and low glycemic. Maybe over a long period of time you can argue it might be more inflammatory and that kind of stuff. So that's kind of true, I guess, but you still can't really apply that to a person because a person, look, how many people listening right now eat based 100% on the numbers and have no feelings around food? Nobody, unless you're a freak or unless you're dysfunctional. Or unless you're a competitor, which is who Lane tends to speak to most of the time. And this is where I'm gonna defend both these guys here is that in the defense of Lane, in a topic like this, when I was competing, I had Pop Tarts in there, I had a Donut in there, I had high sugar drinks, high, all high glycemic type foods, intermittently in the entire time I prepped and I had this amazing physique that hit stage all the time. But I also was weighing, measuring, tracking every single thing I did and I knew where I could insert those and get away with that. Then I've also had clients who literally, all I've told them is I eliminated all the high glycemic foods and switched them over to low glycemic foods and they saw tremendous results. And that was just because really what I did is I ended up reducing their calories, reducing their appetite to Sal's point and it was very simple for them. I just said, hey, listen, stop having all these high glycemic foods, switched to things like sweet potatoes and yams and having foods that are lower glycemic. It makes them eat less. They just naturally make those and those foods too. You could eat a lot more sweet potato than you can get away with potato chips. The things like that you end up filling up on, satiate you, doesn't increase the appetite and make you want more. So, you know, in Ben's defense, I've literally trained clients where that's all I tell them is I look at their diet, I see they tend to gravitate towards all these high glycemic foods and carbohydrates and I go, okay, I wanna switch you over to, here's your carb choices. That's all I'm gonna adjust. Everything else, I like what you're doing. Just get rid of all these carbs. I don't like you eating those and I'm gonna switch you over to these low glycemic carbs and boom, they lose all these weight, they lower inflammation, they feel better than they've ever felt before and they think it has something to do with just the glycemic foods. There's more. Here's, I'll give you an example, right? If you had groups of people and we ran a test and it was a long-term test and one group of people they focused on and pushed the mechanistic parts of the diet. Calories, proteins, fats, carbs, they tracked and they went and they made sure they hit their numbers and the other group, we didn't even focus on that at all, all we focused on were behaviors associated with food. Why they ate, if they ate when they were stressed, foods that helped them eat less, maybe avoiding hyperpalatable foods, avoiding high glycemic index carbohydrates, finding ways to cope with stress and stuff that don't involve food. So on one end we have all behavior, on the other hand, we have all mechanism, okay? In the short run, the macro counting mechanistic people are gonna do better. They're gonna do better. And the long-term, the behavior modifications are gonna do far better. That's why you gotta know both. You gotta know both. It's important to understand the proteins, fats, carbs and calories, but you need to focus on the behaviors or you're never gonna have long-term success. You're just gonna go up and down all the time. And here's the thing with high glycemic index carbohydrates. They tend to make people hungrier and they tend to make people feel like crap. And if you feel like crap and you're hungrier, good luck trying to maintain a relatively healthy lean physique long-term. It's gonna be very difficult. You're gonna be struggling for the rest of your life if you do it that way. So 100%, they're both right. They both have value. Understand both if you wanna succeed.