 So for this evening we'll have a Zoom for the public hearing portion of the town plan. So as we get going there may be some questions that come into the Zoom and it does. The trees where I will field those questions and probably read them aloud so everybody can hear them and then we can talk like normal. So we'll call the meeting to order six o'clock. First on the agenda is to approve the agenda. I think being that the only thing I was just going to suggest was being that we have the public hearing for the town plan first and maybe we just move the public comment behind that. Because you know just in case there's a, most of the time the public comment is not a lot but you know no matter what it looks like it could be something take a while to come. So if everybody's good with that we just move the public comment behind the public hearing on the town plan. The small question is just to fix it spelling. Licorice is for the old Lotus Creek that's Locust. Sorry, yep. Where does it say that? It's the next to the last, yeah. Oh it's on the town manager's report right? Oh okay so it's not on the, oh Locust, okay. Oh not Lotus, come on. It's on the Lotus, sorry. Paul's been slacking so I'm not working until it's on the report. That's right, I didn't know what it was, that's funny. I probably just kept typing about it. Now I'm going to go home. Everyone, will we accept the agenda as amended? Okay, all in favor? All in favor. So to start this evening we'll go over the public hearing for the draft town plan. So as we know, I'll be going through the process every five years to adopt the town plan. This plan is organized and drafted through the planning commission. If you haven't seen it already, the draft is out there, it's online. So it's been out there for some time. I do know the plan, I know five years ago the plan took a lot of time to get through it because we had the, at the same time we had the river corridor and new flood easement stuff activity that came down which took several meetings to get through all of the new information that was coming from the state. This plan, I think once you've probably read through it, the majority of the plan really hasn't changed much since the last one. So, Trace, did you want to, usually we have the planning commission here that kind of presents the plan, if you have any questions that anybody may have. And then, I don't know if you want to go over there, but. Are you going to be section by section? Is that what you're doing? No, I'm not sure, but I think it might be just easier for if people have specific questions. I mean, it's hard for me to give you an overview because as you all know, I'm new to the game because the prior planning commission is no longer there, you know, we don't have anybody on it. It's sad if I'm wrong. But we are about to ask questions. Of course, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I can tell you that on September 16, 2020, the planning commission did their public hearing on the town plan. If you weren't here, Victoria Weber had sent a letter to the planning commission August 23rd, and she had some nice comments. Some of it was just some editorial stuff or corrections, which was great. Lenny Mead could add, which we added out some language about statement that Bethel is the first community. Owen had submitted, Owen Daniel McCarter had submitted a letter with some language he recommended be added in regards to social inclusion. And I believe we all kind of work through that. We kind of really just end up using it in a working session. I'm going to be tweaked the language a little bit and added all that. Tom Warhol recommended language regarding food insecurity, the Bethel food shelf and providing access to healthy nutritious foods to Bethel residents. We added that. Laura Perez recommended language on making Bethel more accessible in housing, parking, and in the design of downtown. We did that. She'd given us some wording later, which was very handy. And we just had overall discussion regarding volunteerism and participation in town committees. Gene Krause had recommended some language regarding geothermal energy. And Nicole Sear of the Energy Committee explained dependence B in other energy goals. So we ended that night about, let's see, at 7.43. We did the Planning Commission move to accept the proposed changes and we sent this slide, you know, sent it on to the slide board. So I actually thought it was a great meeting. You know, I think that, you know, I'm sure, you know, that everybody there kind of, it was more of a collaboration and effort to get some last minute ideas to make some clarifications. And Victoria was great because there were some typos and some things that maybe didn't quite flow. So that was the overall, that's kind of summation of the minutes and of the way the public hearing went for the Planning Commission. It went really well. We added some more graphics and a couple of things like that. So I think that, I mean, Laura can say, I mean, I think it was a fair, what we added was a representation of what happened that night. So, yeah, I didn't, I didn't get to read it until later on that meeting. And I just have one question. It's concerning that when you do the public water. What page is it on? It's on page 35. When you do the public water, it's just a question because it talks about the Geico tank of the reservoir Geico tank. But I was, my question is, it doesn't talk about providing electricity or running electric, electric lines through the recreation center to the Geico tank. And I, and I didn't know what, you know, if that's, is that part of the town plan? Because you had mentioned that you were gonna, that was gonna happen. It is happening. Yeah. So I didn't know, I don't know where that comes into the town plan. I think that we just heard the name of it. Yeah. Actually, it doesn't say that it talks about the tank. And it says right here. Sorry, I apologize. The scope of work was developed and is slated to be implemented in the summer of 2021. Funding for this project is part of a $2.8 million package that the town received from the state's involving home fund. So I think it's all part of that. Because obviously, to break down the parts of that $2.8 million would have been too much information, I think. Because it says there's something that doesn't mean, and what doesn't mean that one of it's something. No, but what they're talking about is the tank itself, there was talk, they were concerned at one point that the tank may be having some issues because of, you know, they've had the issues and they've talked about would we ever have to, would we have to replace it in the near future with a big, like, you know, boss line tank or something. And that's what they meant was that once the inspection was done, answered a bunch of questions. Okay. So that project is within the work. Yes. Yeah, but they're actually, yeah, they're starting soon to lay the conduit for that. And then GMP will be in at some point for primary power for there. Okay. It's a go. This one, that's my question. Do we have any questions from the board? First, in regards to the town of Atlanta. Yeah, I had a question on the page 28. And some of these tracks, I just want to make sure we have the most current information on some of these tracks. And some of the census we're really, we don't have, you know, current information on, but for example, the enrollment for the youth, for school years of 18, 19, it was impossible to get those numbers. I'll be honest. The school has not been forthcoming with information. So I think that they probably used the most recent data that they could get to reverse when they did this. But we've sent them a section repeatedly to have them look at it. And they didn't. So we did the best we could. So I'm sure that knowing Sarah, she was the one working for two rivers, she was great. And I'm sure that's, I'm not sure. It's also a state issue. Yeah, it could be. You don't get those numbers on until about two years after you were told. It says right here, yeah, source of my agency of education. I'm not assuming we could, they would know, but I don't. They might. They might. I mean, they should, but I don't know. So anyways, I think that she probably got the most recent stuff she could get. Okay. Actually, that's the last year that we had a left elementary. Yeah, next year after that was middle school and no interest. We're going to break it down even differently. Yeah. Any other questions from the board? I think open it up to any public comment. If anybody has any questions, I mean, if there's not a lot of them, feel free to kind of just raise your hand briefly and just make sure you state your name that way at least they can get it for the record. If there's a lot of questions at the same time, just keep your hand raised and all this call on it. As well as anybody on the Zoom meeting, if you have any questions in regards to the town plan, right now we've kind of opened it up for public comment in regards to the town plan. Anybody who does have a question online, just maybe put it in the group chat and then Theresa and myself will call on you. So what's the next step? Once we clear it through tonight? Yeah, so the next step would be probably at your next select board meeting, we would just put it on and you would accept it. If there's any changes made or you'd accept it at that point. And then you would be, then we have to get it printed. You've got to send it, you know, this process for us to do more paperwork on the side, but as far as you guys, it is effective immediately. As soon as two rivers is already held for this. And then the next thing that the planning commission and the DRB already have a meeting scheduled, I think it's the 16th, right? So we're going to start working on the zoning bylaws because that's next. So we'll be able to meet and that's a little bit as we'll start working on those. Well, I know it's on the agenda or I'm saying the agenda yet, but it's expected to be on the two rivers agenda December 9th, I think it's the next meeting. Yeah, yeah, they had asked me what our schedule was so they could do that. And then, yeah, so then? Actually, we're not meeting in November, in the early December and stuff. Yeah, so it doesn't hinder what we do. So they've been active in it since we used the municipal planning grant anyway. So they've been, you know, giving us information from the state is of course they're monitoring legislation and stuff. So then the PC will move on to the zoning bylaws and then that will take a few months for us to get through probably. And then two rivers did agree to do a desk review of the zoning bylaws. I think I meant to tell you that break. They said they would do a desk review because I said, look, we don't know all the statutes. Like if something has changed or whatever. So two rivers Kevin Geiger said he'd do a desk review for us once we got our draft bylaws together. And he's like, like, you know, he said he couldn't do it immediately. I'm like, that's fine. Either way. So it's helpful. Yes. I'm Laura Perez and I just have a comment followed by a suggestion. And my comment is a thank you to you, Therese, for facilitating such a collaborative process on this. It was really nice to see that happen. Yeah, it was helpful. I thought because I could just join the planning institution because I had my choice and so it was helpful. It was a really good process and it was a town document so it was nice to have that kind of feedback. I agree. And then my brief suggestion is on page 119. And the policies added at the bottom. My suggestion is just to remove the word handicap and leave it accessible. Which is the, you know, just the more up to date way to express those. So it should just say town to consider accessibility. Yep. Okay. And then in the second one, the same thing just to regarding the proper number of accessible parking spaces. Okay. I think we tried to find someone because you mentioned that before. So that's good. I think it was, we'll just talk about that. So I do have a question. Tom Warhol had mentioned that night at the planning commission. He had used the word food insecurity. Then I was talking to somebody else about it. And they felt that in some cases, maybe that wasn't the right terminology because you could be a gardener or say just we'll just say maybe a farmer or something like that. So you actually have food, but yet you still, but yet you're low income. Because I think we were having this conversation about food insecurity and what was the proper terminology. So I wasn't sure if. I'm going to guess that Tom has the right terminology since he was a writer for the food bank. Okay. Food bank. Yeah. And it still still works with them. So I'm sort of guessing he actually has the terminology. Yeah. I think it made sense. We use that word that terminology. I just had someone else who said, well, you know, they were actually speaking to their, their, their parents and they were like, you know, they, they had a farm. So they had plenty of food, but yet they were low income. So she, you know, wasn't sure they were interchangeable. So I just want to make sure that we have the right terminology. Yeah. Maybe with a low income, they can afford to buy staples. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that just is a broad enough term that it will cover all that. Okay. I just wasn't sure. I told them that I would ask because I didn't know the answer. So yeah, I think we'll lower our station. If there is a time in one month where you wonder where you'll get your next meal, then that's how it's defined. And so I think I agree with Lindley that Tom probably had it right, that people can have food most of the time. But the way it's defined is if there's, if there's at least once a month when you wonder where you or your children will get your next meal, then that's how food insecurity is. Yes, let me. Let her read. I'm looking up what is food insecurity. And it says, most people can go to the grocery store and buy the food they need, but not everyone can get enough healthy food easily. This is called food insecurity, and it can look different for different people. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, again, you know, what we went through five years ago with all the changes at the state, you know, normally your town plan, you know, just kind of slightly modifies itself from, you know, every five years and five years ago, like drastically changing because of the corridor, because the bike can buy a lot and everything was all written one. So there were several hearings to get through all that. I think it's, I mean, you know, Andrew Delaney, Cecil Washburn, Peter Dorn, in terms of Andrew Stone, you know, they did their job and they brought in committees. The Red Committee came in and the Conservation Commission and a lot of people came in and helped. So it was, this is not something that one commission does by themselves. It was definitely collaboration. I think they brought in something from the state of Vermont, right, to help with light tobacco and that sort of thing. And I was there for the childcare part because yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So there was a lot of people that came and helped and so it was, it was nice. It was really great that they had so many people one night I came in. There was a load of all the Conservation Commission. There was some people from the rec. There was a whole group. So it was great. I mean, I just wonder, you know, what we could do better to get better representation from the school and the things because I mean, the school, you know, is the, you know, the heartbeat of your community. And, you know, didn't really feel like we had that representation of the school level. I don't know if there's a, you know, you know, should we offer up a seat on the planning? I mean, how have we been more involved into our town? Yeah. The trouble was there's so few of the administration and teachers and whatnot actually live in this town. We had, there were more people from Bethel working over there, it would be a lot easier. But I mean, the administration is out of town. I think at one time it was like 90% of teachers were out of town. So I wonder how true that is. I mean, on the top of my head, I think of five or six faculty members and one admin person that are Bethel residents. You know, so maybe it's just kind of going, like I said, like going back to the saying, hey, can you put a representative from the school? And maybe it's just come to a specific meeting. And maybe it's not all the time. Maybe it's just when the plan, you know, so many months prior to the plan, you know that. I mean, it went out and we called and emailed and I got you to go, did you miss somebody? So you went over to, did you hand over? Well, the other thing too we had this year, yeah, I went hand delivered some information and fill out. Of course, you know, at that point we're in full fledged COVID, you know, couldn't just walk to the school again and talk to them. You know, make sure somebody was there, you know, yeah. And I think for them to get together and share that information was right here, but. No, it's, I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to get my mind on it and maybe see if I can get somebody to step up to just being a representative. I mean, yeah, I think I was thinking, I mean, we have, you know, we have, you know, three board members, right? So, you know, having more, maybe one of those board members could temporarily, you know, come to one of the meetings or come to the meeting. Yeah, I mean, that's not the way it's out now. Or sit on the planning mission for a small period of time, you know. Because we're working on zoning rights next, which doesn't spend much. But at least he won't just step up and we do the next time. Get ahead of it a little more. Because the information is a little different now, now that, you know, you don't have, you know, you have your high school, the world's in middle schools here. So the data is quite as easy as it was in past, you know, 300 kids here, you know, in a different direction. Well, hopefully then, obviously, we won't be going to COVID. Maybe we can also get them, I don't know how early on they were brought into that. That's right, we're always looking for volunteers. Just kidding. So there is a committee for you. You're not sitting on one. There is a place for you. You know, this is kind of a good example. Someone break up. And this is a good example of, like, you know, may not necessarily have to be a committee member, but, you know, there are certain times where there might be a large project in a certain committee that's getting ready, like, you know, we went to the skate park, you know, for the rec committee and, you know, town planning. It may not have to be a full-time committee member, but maybe at certain times when there is those spikes in activity that, you know, a little more buy-in, or if we could maybe pull, right, people, you know, like at the school or something like that, or, you know, like the skate park. We need to start to see some involvement from really skaters, right? I mean, they weren't just people that were coming in for the rec committee. They were coming into that specific portion of it. You know, that might be some of that. Yeah, and we're seeing involvement because we're ice-lating it soon. Yeah. We have anybody else? Yes. I'm brand new on the Planning Commission. I'm 86 pages into it, so I have 50 pages left of the town plan to review, but overall, I think that most of it's worded pretty well. A few little things that maybe could be changed at some point, but nothing major that I've come across. Obviously, but you get through the town plan, Wayne, and that would be helpful, you know, because you'll have it under your belt, and your same thing was the way Kyle went through the town plan, right? It'll roll nicely in for us doing the zoning by-laws. Yeah, and then I get the by-laws I haven't read yet either. I got time to do that now. Yeah, you do, yeah. And it'll be good. I think we'll kind of organize the 17th figure out how we're going to do it, and it's helpful too because the DRV has been existing solid board of members, so they are the ones who have questions with the permits. Kelly and I have been doing zoning, so we have, you know, we've all kind of made notes on our copy of the zoning by-laws to say, let's help with this. Why? This doesn't match this, so there also is going to be a little bit of a summary, but it'll be nice. I'm excited to have you and Zoe and Kyle and Gene have some fresh eyes looking at things. I think it'll be great. Yeah. And it takes a little bit of time, or anytime you're new to a select board or committee, it takes time to feel out that committee. In this case, you know, reading the town plan, right? Right. I mean, it takes full time to go to the town plan, you know, it's no different than anything else to take some time to understand some of the by-laws. I kind of hope to the senior members of the committee or the board and try to learn from there where the experience is, and so I get the, just with it. Yeah, it'll be good. It'll be good. We're all kind of in the same spot, so actually, the way that's bad and good, I'll figure it out. I have no doubt we will, we will get through it and have a great planning commission, but there's still plenty of seats, but they all go for the planning commission, so tell your friends. Any other questions in regards to the town plan? Did the DRV have any? Do you guys have any comments or about something or anything? No, not at this point. I figured you would holler by now, but I wasn't sure. Any comments on the Zoom chat? I don't see any, but this will probably be the last call for any comments. Like Trey said, the next step in the process will be at the next select board meeting. We'll put this on an agenda item to adopt, and then just as soon as we adopt it, it becomes the new plan. When you adopt this plan, what kind of flexibility do you have to make the necessary changes, if need be, as time goes by? I think flexibility. I think that if you decide for some reason you need to rewrite, you have to maybe start the process earlier. I think you have to have one for every five years. I don't think anyone's going to yell at you, but during the process, you have no flexibility because so many regulations are based on it, so there's no flexibility to change it until then, which is common. So everybody who wants to operate on the same job is counting for five years. But I'm assuming you could do it for five years if you... I think you can't do it for five years. Yeah, I was thinking if you had to do it for three years for somebody to do it for you, I don't think anyone's going to have that. Right. The bylaws can be amended in between, but I don't think there's any provision for the town planning. I've never heard of that. Let's say, I don't think so, I've never heard of that. And you wouldn't want to, because it's such undertaking to write it. That really isn't effective and something needs to be reworked in there, not completely thrown away, but reworked in there to make that change possible for what you're trying to do at that time, because things just come up and things change. What kind of possibility is there for that? It's kind of weird because you can't do it sometimes as a good thing because if you had, I've seen zoning like legal big hundreds of thousands of dollars over what the town plan said about route extraction versus what their permit said. So the town plan, you had, you couldn't change it because you would have been affecting ongoing cases too, so I would assume there's something to be said more than that process. So, but you certainly, if you were going to do anything to it, would have to go through the whole over public's hearing and whole nine yards. But I can look and look into it, find out, like, you know, you can amend it, you can amend it. Yep, it says right here, bylaws, amendments or repeals. So there's got, so there's definitely some, what the process would look like or why, you know, you want to do it, but it does say amendments. So I'm looking at the rules. Vermont land use education, it's the plan and bylaw adoption tools. And I'm just looking at their checklist and it talks about, it talks about amendments, but I'm assuming that changes to propose planned amendment slash repeal, but I don't know if that's in referring to town plan or the zoning laws. I think it says, yeah, the extent of the proposed plan slash amendment slash repeal. I wouldn't know off the top of my head what circumstances would be that you would want to amend it, but sounds like there may be an happen. But you'd have to go back through the same process again, you'd have a public comment down on the piece and then it would go before the select board to be adopted or not. Any last comments? Wait, hang on, we have to unmute you. Yes. Thanks for joining the planning commission. I'm excited to have you and your wife. It would be great. Okay. Not hearing any other questions. We will end the public hearing session for the town plan. I'm sure, again, even after this evening, if there was some sort of information that you'd like to see or something that came up, you can always reach out to Theresa and the board members to, you know, it doesn't become final until we vote on it. I always thought I took that to mean the five year, but says the plan is effective for a period of eight years from the date of adoption or amendment unless we adopted. Well, that's fine because it will, that's probably, I'm sure what the planning commission will do once they get through the zoning bylaws is they could. That paragraph has a pretty second line. It talks about five years. Yeah, the plan serves as an expression of bias. I think that's a good point. Yeah, well, we'll look at page five. So we have five years and eight years, so I'll make a note. We've got page 119 and page five or eight years. Okay. I mean, they do specify 24 BSA. Yeah, pull up the statute and see. So that will conclude the public hearing for the Elm plan. And we'll also at the same time, that'll conclude the viewing portion of the meeting. Thank you. And now we'll just move right into, we'll move into public comment or inquiry. So if there's anything that wasn't on the agenda for the select board meeting for this evening that you'd like to bring up, now it will be the time for you. So, so guess what? I don't know if you agenda that, but it wasn't me any. No, I'm sorry. I, it wasn't coffee, so it's back. It's okay. No, it's fine. Is the mic on now? Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't get any credit for this evening. We have the court, a lot of Alex, he's first on the agenda to go over the class for road use for the personal bills. And then we have a discussion in regards to Avalon Drive appointment for the equity inclusion committee. We have a liquor and tobacco license for review. And then we're going over two more general final budget pieces tonight. I know the last of you guys are going to go in, you haven't got to get there. There was a request from school that we do the plowing. And what happened with that? Because I wasn't here. What was the decision? I didn't know. The town's, the select board said, no, we're not going to plow this whole parking lot. Okay. They were, they were trying to save money, obviously. So it was, I think they were expecting a bid for $58,000 to do the schools and we just said, look, we're down, people, we can't take it over. So we said no. But I told the gentleman I thought, thank you for just the rack and the listers. So it's, this is kind of an overview. And then next, hopefully next time we'll do a fire and a highway. Sorry. And then we'll bring it all together. So kind of just do a little piece. It's just a little overview of it. And then once you put it all in one and then that's when the bigger budget meetings will happen. Of course the public works is the biggest budget. So we tried to, we tried to kick the, the agenda light this evening being that the hearing was going to be first and you just never know with, you know, hearings like that. It could take hours and it could take, you know, half an hour. It's not, the last one took, I think three meetings before we made through all that. I remember it back then. So let's not write that one. State game or everybody came to testify. Anyway, yeah. It was long. Yes. There was a lot of charts and peers. There was a table that showed the erosion of materials and water. Yeah. So any further public comment? Here none. We will turn it over to Alex. She's got, once a year he comes to get permission to operate on the fourth class roads. So lots of roads, road crossings, the same ones we've been using for years. You guys have a map of them. Not sure if it's at the town office or at the five department office. We have a lot of town office. Okay. So I don't want to go home or something else. I'm like, hey, let's hear it. Yeah. I'm happy to be talking about it. Dusty in the corner somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Basically that's it. Just the White River Valley language. Looking for the blessing on using sections of the class board. We have a lot of questions for you. So Hooper Hollow Road at the top. And where we put it then over there a couple of years ago. So just as you come into the Hooper, there's, and I believe, snowmobiles use the access. There's a feeling on the power department. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. Maybe you could help us with this. There's a lot of stormwater. Well, not a lot, but there's a fair amount of stormwater on large events that comes down that trail. And it spills right out of the Hooper Hollow. Okay. And Theresa and I were looking at it, I don't know, a month ago, maybe longer or not. But you know, about maybe talking to the landowner about installing some, maybe some water buyers or something that would get. So is it summer time or is it winter time? I think, I think, I think most of it really is any type of large storm. But I think you probably get some thought. But if you go down here, you probably can see it now. You'll see debris that has washed or does wash continuously into the road. Yeah. There. And we did have one or two residents, well, I think three residents on the whole road. But, you know, 66% of them had said, you know, that they were a little worried about it. Because that's one of the first spots, you know, it's probably the iciest spot where you come down in the wintertime. And I don't think they use it. Even if you look at the road like now, if you were to walk up there now, you get just, it's not a ground, it's not a ground. I think all the debris ground will have seen all of that. Yeah, there's a mess right there. It's like 200 feet of pavement and then it turns to dirt right there. Yeah, I mean, as soon as you go up there, and all that, you can see it, it's come over your slide and it comes down over the bank and it's just kind of that. We don't have any pull there. I can probably look at that. I know that ATV Corp uses that all summer long, too. Oh, okay. You can look at it. And... And... Is that N? That would be N, I believe. Yeah, we could have heard of it. Nt. Can it go up? Nt. Nt. Nt. Okay, man. That's the last thing. Carter. Okay. Man, it's a tricky area because there's land right there, so it's not like you can put any drainage in. I, you know, I guess the tree's not over there. How do the things you do there make you a waterbar? Yeah, I actually think that's a class 4 road, too. Because it's standing at this ledge, so you can't go underneath it. I think it's technically a town right-of-way. We can put that on our next class 4 road agenda. What do you guys think? Well, I mean, it's... There's a few of them that come in over there. Yeah. On the ground. Yeah. I don't know what it's for. It'd be nice if maybe you could just take a look at it and see what, if we can do with that. Yeah. Just to keep the water off, or to re-off a little bit. Yeah, I mean, as far as putting a little watermark cut in there, we shouldn't be too much of a problem. No. Like I said, I think that is... I think it is a class 4 road to be there, too. Is it in there? Yeah, I think it is. I don't think it sounds too good a way out. So, did they usually... Did the ATVs up around the same, pretty much the same area? Did you guys... They run a lot of the same. There's a few sections where they run different. I'm not sure of what their... You know, they run... They run Dark Hill a little bit. But that section right there, I know they come right out right there. Right. They have to decide if they're hauled across the top of the mountain and come down. And then they run out Charlie Wilson Road out of Waze and then go out around the Beaver Ponds, where we don't run that part of the road in the winter. We have to bridge down the bottom of the Stomach Field there. So... All right. Also, I haven't seen the mountain. I think it was a poppy... You both are on the mountain, too. It was a stormy mountain. I know we're starting to put signs up and stuff like that right now, too. So we can... All right. It's easy to get up there and have a look at it. Yeah. Perfect. Thanks. That's great. Does anybody have any issues with mountains, snowmobiles, or forest-class roads yet? I need to just have a motion to approve the White River Valley ramblers to allow me to use the... What's the class roads? Close the winter. Second. Any long favor? I'm wrong. And I don't see the next agenda item of the talk in regards to Evo and Troy. I might not be here today. And... Yeah. They may not be here for a little while, if at all. So... I saw that she passed by me on the street today. It said she'd be here today. Okay. She said maybe not until 7.30. So I told her we'd just keep going and going until the meeting to push it as long as we just keep... I told her, Chris, go the agenda until they show it. Sure. So we can just, if everybody's okay with that, we just skip... We'll just table that one for now and come back to it. So on the agenda is an appointment to the Equity and Inclusion Committee. How many members do you currently have now? We have six. This will be seven. Seven? Okay. So this will make up... There's seventh member. And then we have one more young lady when she's... We've been trying to encourage people to come to the meetings. Come to a meeting for, well, in your case it's different because we're not a former committee, but I think she's going to come to the meeting on the 19th and then maybe get taste for us, see if she wants to join or not. So... Might have one more? Is that... Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So she's going to come then and see. And you can see on the letter, I think, the email Rita is also interested in the planning commission. So we've asked her to come to the meeting on the 17th and see how she likes it up close. So we just need a motion to apply Rita Champion to the Equity and Inclusion Committee. Okay. Second. Okay, all in favor? We have a liquor and tobacco license application. This is the... Locust. Still Locust Creek building where they have the pizza, yeah. That's probably the oldest pizza. There's a trailer there. Yeah. Do you have any pizza in the living room? I don't know. I don't know. What's that? She's putting a convenience store. I'm not sure if they have divided it up or what. Why are we in here working on the furnace? It's the last Thursday. It's full of pizza. Oh, I don't know. It's the only one that I don't want. It's the two of them. The two of them. I don't know. Yeah. I'm in the garage and I think we should bring you to the garage. Yeah, it just says... Or she's planning... Well, did she plan on doing anything else? That... It just says that she's planning on... Is she just using the address for the trailer location? I don't think so because it says it's a small convenience store to include beer, wine, cigarettes, and related items as well as some snacks. Well, it sounds like she's going to be... Maybe calling at the bus shop. Yeah, she must have signed the... I mean, she has, yeah. She has put him in here. Yeah, she did, yeah. Yeah, she's bringing it for my parents. Yeah. I don't know. Let's see then. Maybe they're cleaning it out. I don't know how to tell you that. It says it leaves, so she's obviously leasing. Yeah. Yes. I'm going to be there. Oh boy, I ain't going to let her sleep for a little bit. Oh boy, last time... She said she was renting the left side of this building and putting some convenience store in there with Vermont products and stuff like that, so... Oh my God. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there to grab them. This is the second class in a pack of your license. So I would just need a motion to approve. Go. I'm going to go and rent you a large line in the proper place. Here you go. I'll take five minutes out of the phone. One minute. Yes. That was a sneak. Once he got to you, he got him. Or he got you home. Okay. Okay. I like it. Well, the last time we did, they had a call from the paper. That's a sandwich shop. Yeah. You know. Well, we got the sandwich shop. Want to know about all the information on it? Yeah. Because it sounds like we have information that I have. Yeah. More than that, right? Because we haven't even had a couple of sessions. That's... I've got a lot of information on it, so... I'm... Yeah. The general fund led the discussion, which we have the two pieces that Teresa's giving us, which is the RAC department and the Lister's. So, me and Ellie's here now. So, I didn't know it was going to be on the agenda tonight. So, will we be able to have another discussion? This is just... Yeah, Ellie, I mean, this is just starting the process of the budget. So, normally, you know, it's, you know, making small adjustments from last year to the budget. You know, starting to think about, like, on yours, you know, probably the one thing that does change from year to year and more is, you know, what that... The improvement fund piece would look like. Which it might be a good time here in the next meeting or two that maybe have the RAC committee come in and kind of give us an update of kind of where we're at in regards to planning and what's the next segments and what's our timeline on that so we can start figuring out, you know, how much money do we need to appropriate to do those things. And I did get an email from Teresa asking me about the improvement fund, and I did answer her. Oh, good. You have $5,000. Yeah. I'm going to contend about it. What Chris is talking about is a timeline so we can start planning some floor plans that are going to be the size of all. So we're going to need to fit in a schedule for, you know, the next phase of the skate park, you know, trails and possibly... And we do have a meeting... We do have a meeting this Wednesday. Yeah. It would be nice to kind of see what those projects are with the timeline on those, whatever. It's over the next three, four years and then how much, you know, how much do we have to get our account down and how much do we need to appropriate. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and the rest of the budget's pretty... I mean, a lot of it, you guys, just... You can't touch anyways because it's all like workers' comp, insurance, electricity, telephone, and some of that's pretty standard. Repairs and maintenance, we have some plans about what we could be doing in there, and it looks like too, we might have an issue at the building itself is the sewer pipe snapped off. Oh, really? Yeah. So that's a good deal of that. And she... I know. Very good. Got a lot concrete in there, so they're going to talk about fixing our water problem in there. And then we got, let's see, it got stained, but we need to get the pavilion stained so that's next year, so that's another part. And what else? There's something else on this thing. But... But you did power wash this sign. Yeah. Yeah, they cleaned it, and we had to think, we did power wash it, and banking recommendation not to because it was cedar. Oh. So they did clean it first? Okay, they cleaned it. Yeah, yep. And that's fine. But that was the other thing that came out. Right. Wow. So that's the information on the plumbing portion, so trying to get those kind of... You know, like the water, so when it's falling down, I'm kind of thinking that. Okay. Okay. So I'm sure you drew out the idea that she could tell you... Yeah, yeah, she was busy today, so... Yeah, she was busy today. I mean, it gets closer to time, because it's crazy. Okay. And again, the overall objective is, you know, try and keep that nice bell curve on, you know, on funding, because we don't want to say appropriate $5,000 for this budget, and then the next one you ask for $40,000. And, you know, if $40,000 is what we need, then maybe we appropriate $20,000 this year and $20,000 next year. So we keep that nice bell curve, and, you know, try and get out of the things and zags of budgeting. So it'd be kind of nice to know what the total amount that you're going to be looking at for those projects to buy whatever, four years, five years. Yeah. Then we can say, okay, this is what we need to appropriate, and then we'll look at, once we get the full budget together, you know, do we have extra money? Do we not? You know, where we stand? Yeah. You know, kind of like we've got to be just past, so... Right. So we are working on certain things like the trail, you know, that is the trail brand that's coming up this winter. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a big one, and I think there's more opportunity for them to bring, you know, more trails, and I know you've got stuff. So we have things like that. Yeah, exactly. That we're, that we're working on, that we need to discuss and stuff, yeah. I think the trails are good. I think that could bring people to, you know, the trails, the skate park, and then the second piece of the skate park that you want to add. I think those are draws in this, especially the trails that you can connect from behind the school above, and parking at the school in the right area seems to kind of tie that together. I think it could be a nice, I think that recreation is going to be a good way for some economic development, and that's what it's about. Yeah, that's what it's about. That way, yeah. And the washburns put up the rink, yeah, the form of the rink the other day, and... That's nice. So we just have to pray for good winter weather. Bring your eyes. Winter weather. We weren't called winter weather. I know, right now it's 9-12, yeah. Yeah, okay. If you have any projections or sense since we didn't really use the rest facilities in the same way that we budgeted for them, what that difference might be as we go through the year, and if there are ways to sort of reconfigure how we used this year, but also, like I know there are issues like if we don't raise money that's in the budget, we just roll it over into next year. No. There are ways that we can kind of... Well, good news is if we don't use it, thanks, Alex, as it's going to come into our un-visiting fund bounce, we could actually run a couple circles, which we have not seen here since I've been here. So that would be nice to have that. The other thing is, too, we are de-dreaming that we want home pre-cutting, so that they're the ones who are going to have to kind of grind the floor, and any political look at it today, too, about the showers where we're having that water issue. So getting that repaired out of the budget if the flooring is coming out in the spring, we extend that this year out of there, and as well as fixing the sewer pipe. So we're trying to do some of that. So you're using some of that for June to get the maintenance done. And then if I'm de-dreaming, I did have a conversation on last Wednesday, I guess, about opening the pool next year. Obviously, that's a huge goal this year. It was too many unknowns how we were going to deal with everything at once. So focusing on that, and I did revise the un-and-drop for the revenues for the record, because even depending on COVID, depending on if there's a vaccine, how it's going to go, and maybe trying to do just the older children for swimming lessons and nothing younger because you can't be close to them right now and we don't know what COVID's going to look like. So I'd rather underestimate in revenue than overestimate. So we just still, it's still a time, and it's hard because we were talking about it and working it through. And she's like, you forget and you're budgeting 18 months out. So it's kind of a, you're just trying to do your best situation. So we tried to kick around some options and I had just said, well, send them back basically to John, or just go back and read all the agency, commerce, and community development, what we currently have in place for restrictions for pools and see what it entails. So hopefully obviously by then we hope that we can go back scene and that it can change and become more open and great. So we've got to kind of make a plan and because other times did wind up opening the pool in July. Yeah. A couple of them did. Yeah. I mean, I still think we made the right choice. Oh, I think so too. Like, boy, what up? I think so too. Yeah. So, and that was the other thing that we talked about is maybe calling them and saying, calling a couple of them and saying, Hey, what worked for you? What didn't work for you? What would you do to, you know, if you're doing it again next year, what would you do different? So we can kind of learn from somebody else's mistakes. Nothing I hate more than being the guinea pig. Somebody else have worked it out and seen what they did. So yeah, but certainly, you know, people really missed it and it was hot summer and so trying to fingers crossed, we can do it. So that's what we do some of the money for is that. And then obviously there'll be a, probably, let's see, but the flooring will go in and we still need to look at the pool itself. That's part of the master plan is going to have to be the piping around the pool. You know, it's pretty shallow. That needs to be redone and the concrete needs to be. Some of that needs to come out and be redone. So the black cups of the way that it hears or kind of the lip of that comes where the fiberglass is. That's going to be a big project. So that's something you'll have to go on the capital plan. That would be an addition to the master plan because we didn't foresee that. Right, exactly. It wasn't perceived in the original. Exactly. So we would just ask, we would just make a capital plan. We'll take the master plan and those things and put them in one capital plan for the, you know, and figure out what we have to do. And then we'll prioritize it. And it's kind of just a, you know, you could change the priorities change. So it gives you an idea like Chris said, then maybe you do keep the 10 grand and just kind of keep going along. And then when you have a big hit, you have money to fund it. And then you can, you know, keep coming in. So are you suggesting we keep the 10 grand and the improvement fund or not get to 5,000? Maybe. I mean, I'll leave it at 10. Right now I have to go for five, but we'll see. We also have to increase what we're going to set aside possibly for the reappraisal. So, bunch, so, you know how it goes. We'll keep that. But we've left years in there at 10. I made a note, five question mark. But we'll see how it goes. And that's what Chris is saying, is putting together all those things that we foresee and putting a price tag on it. I'll be able to put them in a spreadsheet for you and say, okay, here's our capital plan. So, and then I'm just going to juggle these things out. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it when you give me a worksheet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I could use an updated worksheet. Yeah, that's helpful for that fund measure so we can kind of know what's in now. So, but yeah, so we'll see it then. How it works about fingers crossed. Yeah, okay. But yeah, we're just pasting our go-hats and savings and we'll see a surplus. That's kind of nice because then if you have someone that's going to get the fund balance and for some reason you have a big hit, like a, you know, what I would make expensive, you know, for any of those. Could you still, could you, also that money is going to the swings that change? Yeah, yeah, put this one set in and yeah, exactly, that's right, yeah. So we had that matching for the grant. But she did get, so we did get the grant for the swing set. So we'll do some of that money for the teams for the match. So. And you still have, you know, your normal start-up costs. Yeah. You know, in June, that would hit that too. Yeah. In June there's some fricking costs on getting, getting the pool open. And then there's the budget. Yeah. Yeah. So, any other comments and recreations for now? Okay, and Listers, it looks like right now we're pretty much the same. Yeah, but Judy and Louise feel herself just great. I have a question about the assessor services. Yeah. Could we sit down or should we separate from them and accumulate, either accumulate that and. Well, I don't know. I mean we kind of, I would say not just because we're, you're already saving for your reappraisal. This is basically to pay someone in lieu of Listers because Louise is, you know, July 1st because Louise would like to be done July 1st. So, God bless her. You know, she's been there a long time. And right now we have a Lister who's never taken the oath. So really the only Listers right now are Louise and Judy. So, I spoke to them last week and Louise and Judy were going to kind of put something together. Like, basically what does it mean to be a Lister? And then so Kelly and, and so we can get this, Kelly and I and get it out. We can do something in the paper and from Quarch Forum on Facebook, on the website and try to find someone who's interested. I mean, as Judy will tell you, it takes a skill set and she needs somebody else who can go and learn the computer and there's certain backgrounds that are really helpful to that. And we did talk about still trying to find an assessor whether it's a realtor or, you know, something but trying to, I told her if they got it together I'd also send it to all the realtor offices and see what we can find. So they need, they need another, they need another activist or someone, you know, like Judy, like Louise, who comes to work on a... But if you don't use that time, there's something there. It just sits there. Yeah, it goes back to the end of the same. Yeah. Then I actually have to find out, like the authors of my back on Wednesdays, I'm going to ask Rick about the legal. I've never known anybody to put their legal fees into a capital fund. I don't know if they like the idea but I just need to ask them about it. And, but so this is just something we kind of just weren't sure and it didn't play out this year. Louise decided to stay, but it sounds like July 1, she really wants to be done. So hopefully, so if anyone wants to be a Lister. Doug, what do you think? You get some exercise on your hands? No. I'm going to do it with this guy. Okay. Home takes his emotion in a second. That's right. And some glasses and the right pieces. One room is more of a... He has insurance background, which is awful. So, you know, there's certain backgrounds which are... But the other one is just showing up on the line. Well, I think a lot of those, you know, you get the right person that's willing to learn and you can teach them anything. Okay. Any other discussion in regards to those two pieces for this evening? Derek? Yes, sir. Okay. So we just, we didn't know what time we wanted to make sure that we were available for you as we've been shuffling. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. Oh, rather thanks. So, is Sally coming as well or...? No. She walked me over here and then said good luck. Turn her out. Turn her out. Turn her out. She said it on to you, but yeah. So Derek had some concerns in regards to the Avon Drive piece and we had... Right, right. This is a response. Sally did write a letter and I did sign it. And so I wanted to speak how we feel about the... Mostly the boundary on Avon Drive. I don't want to put Theresa on the spot, but she said she had found a... You know, this is... First of all, I think they did a nice job and we looked at the drainage. And I'll take care of that as if it was my own. Yeah, thank you. I saw you out there, but... Which leaves me... You had some young men there. I think it'll help the town. Keep a lot of the dirt out of the dust out of the stores. And Sally was concerned how it was being reconstructed and when it's paving was a good time to start over. Because we have... What started my interest was we have photographs with points that are still there, like there's a stone in front of 29 Avon, which is Richardson's, and that stone is still there. And there's a photograph of Avon Drive and you'd mentioned you had found a 1922 fire insurance map. Yeah, that's when I sent a good letter. Yeah, I haven't seen that, but I think I found, as far as the layout, something that also when I met... Look at the copy of the letter that I sent. Okay, yeah. Also when I met you, the utility director was there, Mr. Mills. And I compliment him also on the drainage. And he mentioned it was a good idea to have a survey. And you mentioned that my survey wasn't recorded. Right, I did. Yep, and I agree with you. But we have a recorded survey right here, Avon Drive. Yeah, that's what I got. That's the layout of the road, right? Yeah. From 18 or something? Well, it was laid out by the selectman. I can read a little bit of it if I have time. We the selectman meet and examine the premises as set forth in the above petition and laid a road from the highway running throughout the village past the depot house by the house of Gardner Wheeler to the land where this Mr. Spalding was going to build his house. And then it's right here in English measured from the center of the survey 10 feet each side. So, and then there's an accurate survey. So if somebody were interested or in the future, this would be strong evidence of where the center line of Avon Drive is and from that 10 foot offset or actually from the center line would be my property line because it says it runs by Gardner Wheeler's house. Now we're formerly Gardner Wheeler. That belongs to myself. So I wanted to make that clear. And then any questions on that? Book three page 405, I believe. So any questions on that? Is a legitimate survey of Avon Drive? So that would be my property line and it could be resurveyed to see where the property line is or the edge of the easement also and to see where the ownership of that nice drainage system lies. I just wanted to bring up. That's my first point. So if there's any questions, I'll move on to the second. Is there was a survey done on the top end of Avon Drive by Mr. Stein and that is recorded by the town and Mr. Stein is a licensed surveyor from Springfield, Vermont. Who tells you? He, in effect, his unsigned survey was used to change the tax map of Bethel and deny me of the driveway I used for many years, along with others. So the, is that unsigned survey on the file of the town? He finally did sign it. Now what's it, but the tax map was changed before he signed it. And what's interesting is after he signed it, he was investigated by the state of Vermont for his misconduct. And it will be public knowledge. He'll have a say as to whether he keeps his license or not in the future and it'll become public record. But my point is that based on this, and I don't know when it will be, it might be a year from now, but based on the result of that hearing by the state, I would ask that that survey, even though it's been recorded, be rescinded as of any value for surveying my property. And at that point, the tax map being changed back to when I bought this property. Yeah, I think that's more of a the same configuration. That's more of a civil matter. If you, if you have a civil matter. No, because this deals with me in the town. Well, but is it, is it yours? Is it, it's not your survey. I take it. It's a, it's an abutting property owner. Does their survey and yours? Wait, it takes it, basically it was done by an abut, yes. Yeah, so does, and you've had your property survey? Yes, I did. So does your survey and their survey agree or clash? They clash. So then the remedy for that would be the, the two survey. Basically, usually, rise in the house of the two surveyors meet and kind of mediate and say, okay, this is where I have minuscores out there and there's usually a corrected. But I'm just asking that the, there's something the town changed. They changed the tax map based on this survey. And if, based on the outcome of this Mr. Stein's work, if his work is found that he was not with the standards of his profession, that that you can still have it on file, but it not be used against me. And that the tax map be changed back to its original, original configuration when I, and see, I purchased the land and based on this survey overnight, I bought this land and paid for it and got a warranty deed for it. And then overnight suddenly, oh, guess what? You no longer own your driveway. And here's, here's proof. The sheriff came out and said, look, see, here's the tax map. You don't own that. Right. I think if you sort of, your survey was filed, then somehow the listeners are going to have to kind of look at it and say, just because the state says his work, maybe he's. Well, you may lose his license over it. Now it'll be fine. Right. Now just because it loses his license, then doesn't automatically make every work he's ever done. Well, this investigation is based only on his work on a long drive. Then I would imagine that as part of that research, I would assume that. You don't have to answer me tonight. I'm just going to shut up. I'm assuming the attorney general where it does that sort of thing would let the town know or something. Okay. Fair enough. So if the state tells you to rescind it, you probably will. We'll, I'll just leave it at that. Thank you very much. And that's about all I have. I mean, it's nice piece of property that I bought. And I expect to enjoy, you know, right to, it matters to Sally every inch. Yeah. And you can see it too. I mean, you did take, obviously with this project, you changed the layout of what was there. We made sure that, you know. No, but the property lines do go back to the original. Yeah. I mean. Line, there's no reason they would have changed over the years. I'm just saying, the project paving that we just did now in the stormwater, we didn't get any closer to anybody's property and we stayed within the parameters of the, the, what was there, I mean, or has been there. So, and I'm hoping that the paving, you got a whole street with it. So I'm hoping you're happy with it. Yeah. And I compliment the contractor. What was it? G.W. Tatron? Yeah. I think they work very hard and we're, we're very delightful to have this guest up there. So maybe you'll hear more from me in the future. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, because I get settled and that's part of the action and that the somebody, whoever that is at the state level. Right, because it's odd that I would rent a place for and use a driveway with five other tenants and then overnight because of Mr. Stein's work. See, the, the body that the state has against them is it doesn't recognize any of the meets and bounds that the town maintains. It was based solely on one person's parole evidence and that being the customer of the survey. Do you expect that to be settled in any time soon? Well, it's been under, they just sent us a certified letter saying they would notify us and we could appear, I'll probably be working, but and then the outcome would be public record. And it's based on his, his conduct up there. His name is Mr. Stein. Yeah. Yeah. Springfield, Vermont. So yeah, I haven't received anything at the holiday. I don't know what their authority is up there. I don't know if they just need an artwork so I guess we'll find out together. Yeah. I'm not involved either. It was just a wit day, you know, a spectator. Yeah. Yeah. I don't just, I guess my recommendation would be just to, you know, any information that you do get or receive in regards to that make sure that Jeff Treese gets a copy and then we can talk about it. Yeah. Or she can point in the right direction to what the next step is. It may take up to a year or so. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, it would be nice to, you pay for something, you get a warranty deed and then boom overnight, Mr. Stein comes in and says, no, your neighbor says you don't own that. And it's odd because we used it for years as a driveway. And, you know, we have this meets and bound survey of Avon and Drive, but we also have photos and objects that haven't moved. So we have strong evidence. You can't beat it. Yeah. Well, we'll see how that works out. Yeah. And we'll see if people go there. Well, thank you. I'm going to head home. Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks. Thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you. Okay. Treese has got her town manager report, whatever link is left on there. Bad news, you know, because it's so fair and not for me. I was talking to our attorney, triple page and Fletcher, about the sale of the Hodgson property. And he mentioned in the email to me that what I was asking, like, I don't know what I was asking about. I mean, it's not about the process. And now I know he was reviewing by 1063 notice or 1061 notice with paper and made some edits. And he said, I'm going to talk to the attorney, Fletcher, but I think any money over the sale that you bought that, the town, when the town bought, that they have to return it to the owner. So, and I was like, no way. I might, I have seen that happen before when properties, you know, I was like, well, we've owned it a long time. I'm right in this, you know, piece of the tax collectors thing. And I read up the statute and I'm like, listen, it says that you can treat this like our property. And he said, that's all well good until you look at a Supreme Court decision from 1970 that says that if you sell, if you bought a property, the town has a tax sale. The whole purpose for town to buy property a tax sale, which I will go on record once again is saying I never recommend you to. And he said the same thing is to only recoup the town's tax money, not to like make a big profit. Otherwise, you would be on the every property. So I'm like, okay. So he talked to Attorney Fletcher, then emailed me and then I called him. He said, oh, you got my email. I guess I'm just human happy. That's why we're chatting now. So we went through the whole process and he, so he outlined the the Supreme Court case for me. So that's what was, you know, supersedes the statute. So what he said he couldn't do, however, was take every cost that the town and battle has incurred. So the tax sale, the advertising, my time, the electric bill, the insurance, the changing of the blocks and all that stuff, everything, including what we would have gained for tax taxes. And stayed on the rules. So basically we need to go through and itemize every single expense that we have that we would have. I know I didn't mean that. What about the, you never paid rent there because you were supposed to pay rent? Was it? I don't know. He didn't have an agreement. You never have a lease that I wear. And if he had an agreement with Greg, I don't know that. Well, I think Greg, or no, he's bought it. He's bought a tax sale. And then Greg did try to work with him a couple of times. So what's going to happen is we're going to take that money and we will recoup every single one of our losses, plus the tax, you know, that we would have made. Interesting. You know, I think that would probably be a threat. I thought of that. I've always, my nose. I'm sure he's good. I'm sure he's good. But we've also done some legal work, you know, anything that we've done. So we are going to get back every single cost, including that. And then you will be refunding them out. No, but yeah. I didn't make sense because I know people who bought tax sale properties flip them, make a lot of money, and they don't get back to the value. Because the only time that happens is, say you and Paul were bidding on a piece of property and whatever it went for over the taxes, when you went and they don't redeem, that goes. That's the day of the sale, which is the day of the sale. I see. And that's what I said. That's exactly what's my argument. I said, wait just a second. I said, we didn't bid against anybody. We bought it for that. There was no excess. And he said, well, and like I said, this is what it says in there. And this is what the statute says. I said, you point me in the statute because the two guys that are in there do not say this. And he was like, it's the 1970 Supreme Court case. I'm like, okay. I mean, I can see if you have a piece of property that owes taxes, you go to the tax sale and you purchase that property. And then you sell that property. And if you do make something on that, couldn't see maybe the argument for it. But this person swatted in this land for, no, it was re-sale. If your tax sale is over, you're still good. See, and that's what I said. This person owes $10,000 and goes with tax sale for 20. You got to give the owner $10,000. Back, yep, at the end. At that point. At that point. Yeah. But then you're done. Yeah, exactly. He's done it. But it's over. And I agreed. And I made it. Well, this person, and I made it for you. It's been three plus years. Yeah. Because I went into the Plex 2013 taxes. Yeah. And I made that argument. And then he pointed me to the Supreme Court case. And he said, no. And so I was like, what box are you thinking? Like, I'm telling you a box. Pleasure. And so that's the deal. So anyway, it's while I'm extremely sad because that is absolutely not my understanding. That's not the way the statute read. That's the rule. So we will be returning some amount yet to be determined. But I can still count my time and everything that we've put into it since we got it at 2000. I think it was 2000 in court. Returning it to who? E. Hodgson. That's ridiculous. No, it's not. Well, it's law. And apparently it's law. Well, it's not the law. It's not the law. And that's the unfortunate part when I... You know, when... Is that just a municipality? What a court decides to do. It's just a municipality because we are not in business. Otherwise, what he's saying is towns would do that. He said it's only because you're a municipality. If you weren't a municipality and you were, you know, Joe Schmoe, you could do that. But because you're a municipality, your recourse or what the statute is... Or what the Supreme Court decided was otherwise we could have a monopoly. We could outvade everybody. And then do this. So... But the town bought it. Yes. So you don't look around it. You don't look around it. And that was my point. And we have been sitting on it. And, well... I mean, it doesn't matter who bought it. I signed it at the end of the day. I mean... Apparently, yes. That was apparently what... And I was like, I'm sorry. I had no idea. I've never bought a property tax sale. I've always counted select words to never do that. And this one was already purchased. So when I read what I read in the handbook, I was like, yeah, maybe you could do this. So... But shouldn't we be able to collect, you know, whatever fair rent would be? I could ask him that as a question. I mean... That I have... But it isn't right for... It's not right that someone lives there with Scott Friedrich or anything like that. But it should be the grossest of the seedings to come up with it to show... Like, because we have the however many years of the grand proceedings that we went through with it. Yeah. Could that show that he has not been coming right? And that's... That was our legal remorse to... Could be. I don't know. I'm not allowed to ask that as a question. I sat down. After I talked with him and worked my mat off by writing down every single thing I could think of. And then... But then I wrote the question mark. But because Keith never entered into any sort of written lease agreement with him, I don't know. So we'll have to find that out. So anyways, we'll recoup every single loss plus any tax money that we lost, which is good. So it's not a... You know, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye as my mother used to say. So I cast worker. So it doesn't make sense. I didn't either. I have the same... The price that you sold it for... I know. It was bid up. You know, people did the whole thing. Why should that be a person who doesn't own property anymore? I don't know. See, we all have the same argument of myself. He's arguing about the town throughout bid everybody. So what if they do? If the guy was $10,000 and he bid it up to $150,000, you get it because you don't make money. You got to get that $140,000. Yes. So why would you bid it up? You should. You're going to stop. Well, and for whatever happens is it's because the way that works is more for regular, you know, for non-municipal, non-municipalities. For them, that's fine, right? Because they obviously can see their value and they want to invest their money and... And so for them it works. But for us, this is the rule. I had never, obviously, never heard of that. And so, obviously, Grilledem, he's probably gone up, right? And but he laid it out for me and once I understood what he was saying, as much as I grudged me, I thought he'd be a valid point that he's right. Municipalities aren't in the business to, you know, I said, come on, this is like our only shot at making money. That's non, you know, not really, that's non-tax revenue. He's like, yeah, I'm sorry. Because these are the rules. Yeah. So anyways, so that's... Even though the other police, he didn't live there. I mean, they lived there, so there ought to be a monetary value of them being there. Yeah, it's a good question. So I'm going to, I'll ask, it's on my list of, you know, I sat down and talked to them. It's kind of been just like, you know, we buy this person's house, they're out for, let's say they're not even there, you take it over tax sale and then we sell it and then they say, okay, well, you're going to have to give money back to, you know, say it. So then they were, so we'll see why that works out. But so, I mean, we're obviously going to recoup everything, which is great. But this is the situation. This is where we're at. So going back to Teresa's earlier comments, stay out of the real estate business. That's right, because I have said, always and do not. That's why you don't buy. Well, we're making experiments for the board. Yeah, well, me too. We kind of, may have had a little mistake coming out of my interest, but I called him and went, what were you talking about? And then he, when I read him everything that I had, and this is the statutes, and then he's like, I get it, but this is why you, this is the one I found. So 1970s. Any good news, Teresa? You're going to make good news. Yes, I do think the project is wrapping up. Well, at your point, $90 water project is wrapping up for this year. Obviously they're going to move to the rec area. So they're going to be putting in the conduit, and then off to work it out with GMP, hopefully this year, but something that dropped on, at some points, I'm not sure. I'm hoping GMP will do it this year. But they're putting in the power for the instruments to go to the, both of the reservoirs, so that we don't have to run a third check, how many wrongs on the ladder is, and that sort of thing. So that's going to be good. Deetree was awarded the grant she wrote for this one set. So we'll be able to get the swing sets moved, put in all the bark underneath, and get that taken care of. She also met today with Michael Parker. There was a couple of weird things on the skate park of the finishes, and he skateboarded on it, and he said it didn't bother him as much, but he could feel it, but he knew how BMX Spikers would deal with it. So he's definitely going to get that taken care of. So I thought that was... When you talked to GMP about the conduit, can you also ask him about the downtown poles? I already did. I texted Paul Verlum. He said he would check them. I mean, they've only been there two years now. They're probably going to find. Well, there's some rule about how each one, when we originally went through this, like GMP has X-mounted time to get their work done, then they notify the next one. So then maybe that's Comcast then, each one apparently has a length of time in between to get to it, but I didn't. And he's not already in the course of those times. It's just rule. I mean, the one right here in the corner, every time there's a large 53-foot trailer that makes this radius, it comes within a hand reach of that pole that you've done. Yeah. This is a matter of time for that thing to come down. So I did have a... So I had texted someone about a twine-up thing. And when we got on power, I thought that pole now is now a communications company. Yeah. I'm sure that's what this is waiting for. Yeah. I mean, yeah. But we did, I did send out a text message to him and he was going to try to look into it and find out. So... So to explain it for the next meeting, can we get a financial update on the water line product? It's coming up. Um, it may, it's not going to be until December, because we have our meeting that first Tuesday in December, and then we'll, because there's a change order that's coming through that we need to see, and then we're going to have a better understanding of where we are. But at this point, Aldrich and Elliott, Tatro, totally, we are going to max what the state's going to give us for that galvanized or lead subsidy. We're definitely all, obviously that's our goal, is to get as much in and get that maxed out. So right now, you know, things are going well with the project and we're going to, we'll have better information for you after that. After the meeting, we see that change order. So we have been able to get, we had budgeted $15,000 for engineering and using that instead, we've done Avon and Ligbury, we've had the storm drains installed for that price. So we, and we will do the same up here, there's a swale to go on pushing and, and so we still have a couple things we need to button up, dense more, we need to cut and cap this line. That's something we need to get on. So rather than later, obviously most of the paving, that they were doing some patching or a trenching today, trench patching today, but we assume it'll be quiet in the downtown and it'll be focused on, open in the rec area. So we've got a nice day going right through, nobody firing, and nobody, nobody putting equipment there. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And I, I do think, whether it's a straight path here. They didn't know who was coming here. The other thing is we, I was approached by Kathy Day and I'm going to put her in contact with Deetree and it looks like they, people want to do something in the downtown with, with lights for holiday, holiday lights, maybe I know there's some ideas getting thrown around, whether it's all the businesses, do holiday lights, maybe some of them with big storefronts, do like a, kind of like a, you know, at New York City, how they do the windows, and for the holidays and try to get maybe even a contest, maybe so people can judge them, trying to bring people to the downtown to shop, and that's what I think. So I'm going to put Deetree and Kathy Day together. I think that that would be a good creative team and then try to get that done, have the town whoever does normally puts up all the Christmas lights for the town, or excuse me, holiday lights, let's get those up too as well and try to just bring some light to the downtown is the goal. I thought that was really nice, Kathy had talked to me on election day about it and I talked to Deetree and it sounds like there's some good idea there. The other thing I found out about is for, there's some COVID relief possibly for water sewer users who maybe had, here's, I'll have a, I have a meeting tomorrow at one o'clock about it so I'll be able to find out something new Jesse and Owen because your business is closed to see I don't know if they're going to do if it's only if someone is delinquent or if they, or if it's going to be if somebody's had a hardship you know during COVID how that's going to work I don't know the details of the program I just found out about it on Friday and got signed up and I'm taking the class so if we have folks out there you know depending on how it works I don't know if they have to be delinquent or just how hard it is how it's going to work we'll find out, get the information out because Dietrich is putting out water bills on I think Friday so we're going to try to do an insert with some information that I can learn tomorrow to find out who that's going to affect but I thought that was great because that was one of the things that towns are having are like we can't subsidize people who are having a hard time during COVID we didn't have the money to do it so I'm hoping that there's some way to help the residents like the water series is directly so we'll see what's what I don't know the details but I figure any help is it's good help so that's it that's my good news bad news all right and we had to select four minutes from the 12th which weren't in our packet last time and then the 26th so unless we have any changes to those I just need a motion to approve both the 12th and the 26th minutes so move that's all good okay all in favor all right and then some other communications that we had in there was we saw the stagecoach name change can I interrupt for a second so that motion was for both sets of minutes yeah okay yeah thank you the 12th and the 26th the stagecoach has changed their name has or isn't and process of so there'll be Tri Valley transit and then we had some information in regards to the first meeting for the equity and inclusion committee which meets on the 19th that's six o'clock I'll have a at the town hall yeah at the town hall yeah I think the reminder is that the town office will be closed on November 20th because we're having a basement insulated so we cannot be there so no oh yeah and the other thing we had you need that yeah I do so the other thing is just we'll need a motion to give Therese the authority to sign the easement at the wrecked area with GMP in case that comes through before our next board meeting I can't hold that up any longer so probably haven't used like that that in the central one before you well we did all the we did the paperwork and indeed we had all that stuff and then and I don't know where it's gotten lost in the process we had their estimate and I think at first we were kind of told to wait because we were so far out we had did it very early in the process before I don't even remember I actually remember doing it really early on and and then Tim came to me today and said hey guess what so I don't know where the ball got dropped but I know he and I sat down and did all that stuff so I'm not sure what happened but anyways that's where we are now because you're right yeah Carol would have left that so if that's not the case so we're dealing with what we're dealing with right now he's missing a check yep exactly and I said she was updating her estimate because she had done it a while ago so the estimate's getting updated I said the check's no problem we'll get that cut you know we have to you know to be next week or sooner we have to we could and and then the easement even though it's boilerplate and I had we had the easement there from CBPS so I actually scanned her the deed today along with that easement obviously only it was with certain locations I want to have both so I don't know what happened I figured that's the first thing in all this whole thing that we're all right where are they going straight up to the driveway straight through that way we don't we try not to disturb anything on either side doesn't affect the way that skateboard park is and it won't affect with ice skating right over the pool that way too it's less that we have to clean up later as far as receding and all that so we're going to try to go right up the road the drive of the rep area straight up from that so we just need a motion to approve terese to sign on behalf with the easement the GMP okay okay with so we have to we may have to cut that check early we'll just put it in a separate one but or warrant we have to call Paul but it depends on she doesn't know how much she's going to get that are they laying the pipe or what are they we're laying the pipe and then we have to lay the primary conduit and then obviously they'll pull the primary line so we're going forward with our piece and hopefully we're just hoping for the best hope it doesn't weather old and I know she's been really really busy so anything else can you pull the board or move the dirt okay right all right