 Good day, internet. Good day, internet. Good day, internet. Good day, internet. Good day, Tristan. Hello. How's it going? Very well. Very well. We've been hanging on to our last couple of days of sunshine here in Vancouver before it's gray until May. Oh, we have your gray in Los Angeles today. It's been sunny most of the week, but we've got a little gray today, so we must have taken it. And we're happy to share. We'll share as much as we possibly can. Our pleasure to do. Seasonal affective disorder started here. Yeah, yeah. It used to be VAD Vancouver effectiveness. All right, shall we do the show? Let's do it. Here we go in three, two. This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to every single one of you, including John and Becky Johnston, Chris Benito, Steve Aderola, and our brand new patron, Keith. Woo, welcome, Keith. On this episode of DTNS, Microsoft wanted Apple to buy Bing kind of how to keep your website from being used to train AI and the countries who stand to gain the most from people using those AI tools. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, September 29, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Sushi. I'm Sarah Lane. I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. And joining us, the producer and co-host at Momentus TV and AI named the show, Tristan Jutra, welcome. Happy to be back. It's good to have you. How's the new show going? Aside from its impact on my sleep schedule. Well, well, we were doing it in the middle of the night. Isn't that always the way like, it's going well and I haven't slept? Exactly, yeah. This episode six just dropped today. Our AI clones coming for your job. Find out on AI named the show. Meanwhile, right here, we shall start with the quick hits. The Wall Street Journal sources say Chinese officials told Apple that it must strictly implement rules to ban unregistered foreign apps, with sources citing recent meetings between officials and Apple staff. China restricting the apps would prevent Chinese iPhone users from downloading some Western social media apps like Instagram, X, Facebook, YouTube, and WhatsApp. You don't often hear of China easing restrictions on the internet, do you? But the cyberspace administration of China has proposed loosening cross-border data security controls in order to ease the concerns of foreign businesses. These are the rules that govern how companies are allowed to move customer data between countries. So in this case, between China and data centers outside of China, the proposal would no longer require specific consent to move data that doesn't contain personal or other important info. Now, how important data is defined is going to be important. Right now it's still a little vague, but it is expected to be defined in the final version. France's competition authority rated Nvidia's local offices this week due to supposedly suspecting that the company is engaging in anti-competitive practices. Now, the regulator did not elaborate on which practices it was specifically investigating or even which company it had targeted Nvidia or something else beyond that it was in the graphics card sector. The Wall Street Journal sources say that the operation had indeed targeted Nvidia, the world's largest maker of graphics in AI chips. US Supreme Court announced Friday it will hear two cases about laws in Florida and Texas that would restrict how companies moderate content on social media platforms. We've talked about these before on DTS. It's been a while, though, because they've been working their way through the system. The two laws would prevent companies from demoting or removing content from their platforms on the basis of Viewpoint. It would also require transparency in moderation rules and require companies to stick to those rules. There's a few differences between the Florida version and the Texas version, but that's the overall gist of both of them. Both laws have been prevented from going into effect while the legal challenges have worked their way through the courts. And the Supreme Court will hear arguments on the cases likely sometime next year. Few of us this morning might have heard friends of ours who use Discord saying, is something wrong with Discord? By the time I woke up, it apparently had been put to rest. But kind of a big deal. Discord messaging platform used by gamers, live streamers, general chatters, people who do things like what we do on DT&S, appeared to be down early Friday for many users. In a statement, the company said, as an explanation, we're experiencing unusual traffic spikes that lead to users being temporarily blocked and we're working on mitigating that issue. The issues appear, at least at this point, to be related to Cloudflare, which was having problems with its dashboard and API service and is undergoing scheduled maintenance. More fun facts keep pouring out of the USFTC's antitrust case against Google, Microsoft Business Development Vice President John Tinter testified Thursday that Microsoft CEO Sachin Nadella met with Apple CEO Tim Cook in 2016 to discuss investing billions, multi-billions of dollars in a deal to replace Google as the search engine on iOS. Bing, at the time, powered Siri and Spotlight searches. It did that between 2013 and 2017. But Microsoft, at the time, wanted to expand that to Safari, where Google was still used and beyond. In 2018, after their deal had expired and Google was now on everything, Apple and Microsoft met again to discuss a search deal outside the United States. Well, you don't want us in the US. How about if we do it elsewhere? Microsoft was also apparently talking to Samsung about making Bing the default on its platforms and Bloomberg sources. This wasn't part of the open court testimony, but Bloomberg sources report that in 2020, Microsoft pitched Eddie Q at Apple on the idea of selling Bing to Apple. And that's the thing making all the big headlines today. Apple apparently never took any of these deals, mostly using Bing's existence as a bargaining chip to get more money out of Google. Samsung never seriously entertained the ideas. And apparently through back channels, politely asked Microsoft to stop pitching them, saying that their president to pro tem was too polite to tell them to stop. And Samsung did that because they didn't want to threaten their much larger relationship with Google, which involved all of Android, not just search. So the big headline here is Microsoft pitching the idea of selling Bing. That clearly never was serious. I don't know, Tristan, should any of this matter to any of us as consumers? Well, it's interesting. Some of the classes I taught in a past life about things like social media and search engine optimization, I would often ask people, it's like, why do you think when you open up your iPhone, for example, and you go to search that it goes to Google? And how did that arrangement happen? Or when you, in that period that you mentioned, when you're asking Siri a question and it goes to show you web search results sometimes, we asked to search, it would give you Bing results. And a lot of regular folks had never really thought about that. And so he said, it's pay to play. And estimates for that time period, for Google anyhow, have ranged anywhere from $8 billion to $18 billion. It's never actually been disclosed. But that's a lot of money that Apple is not that interested in letting go due to a regulatory interference. But then the whole notion of Bing trying to sell itself to Apple, Microsoft divesting of that, which kind of runs contrary to Apple's build it here, not invented here syndrome. They do largely smaller acquisitions. For example, 21 AI companies in the last couple of years. But Beats, I think it was their biggest acquisition in like a long, long time. So to go and buy something like Bing from Microsoft would be kind of out of character. Furthermore, people have noticed over the last couple of years an Apple bot actually crawling people's websites as well, leading to speculation that maybe Apple was creating and designing their own search engine in-house, which would be a pretty heavy lift to try to make something competitive with Google, which has become so entrenched over the last couple of decades, perhaps this Apple bot was using to train their large language model, which again is rumored to make, maybe someday make Siri smart, finally. Well, you know, you know, hearkening back to 2023, I remember, you know, Siri was the first, you know, AI powered assistant that I was using and I remember being in the car and you know, trying to just like more or less, but you know, make her say something crazy, you know, like, oh, let's figure out how to make the, you know, the bot not say the thing that you want to say, and that's how we know that humans are still, you know, in power. But it was a Bing thing. I had kind of forgotten about that, you know, that was 10 years ago and it was Bing powered search for Siri in the early days. And that was at the time where a lot of us were kind of like, this is cool potentially and work that well, but like potentially pretty cool. So I can see where the two companies would have had many conversations over the years to be like, okay, how do we make this better? How, you know, how does this partnership make sense? And I guess it didn't. The conventional wisdom in all the stories I read today was that Apple was playing along Microsoft in order to drive up the price with Google. They were happy to have Bing around because it meant they could ask Google for more because they had a way to walk out of the deals. My theory on Microsoft having a low level exec or lower level exec, right? We're not talking Satya Nadella at this point where somebody else coming in the room and saying, hey, would you want to buy Bing? I feel like they didn't expect that Apple would want to buy Bing. They didn't really want to sell Bing, but they figured that might be the only way to get their attention and maybe get into a room with Tim Cook again. Cause it feels like at that point, Apple had just said, you know what? Sorry, we just, we just don't want to buy your thing. Similar to Samsung having to have employees through a back channel say, you know, our boss is really tired of you asking about Bing. It's just not going to happen. Can you stop? So when they're discussing pay to play with eddy queue and then they go, hey, maybe you just want to buy us. And he's like, I got to talk to my manager. Yeah, right. Exactly. That's what they were hoping. And that Tim, he would then pull Tim Cook out of his office. Maybe. I don't know. That's just, that's just my conspiracy theory. I gotta admit, I've been trying to use DuckDuckGo for the last few years and it's powered by Bing with some extra Zhuzhan top. And I still find myself going to Google, you know, quite, quite often because it's Bing's, it's different, but it's still not quite there for certain things. And then of course, a lot of us are using the, you know, Bing chat. I think that was the genius move with all of this because one of the theories that people have as well is that maybe Microsoft didn't want to pay the kind of money that Google was paying for the exclusive default for the Safari browser on iOS and even hang on to the Siri default either because they could use that money for other things. Maybe redirecting it to OpenAI, for example, they save their pennies. So they get their $11 billion into OpenAI so far. So maybe that's, that was the smarter play because so much more interest in Bing, you know, since early this year after the partnership and they've been rolling the GPT functionality into Bing chat. I know I've been using it a lot more since then. Yeah, that's a smart thought. Speaking of AI, London's Capital Economics issued an assessment of which countries will benefit the most from new technologies marketed as AI. The study looked at countries potential for innovation, use of AI, adaptability to its effects. The US topped the chart, followed by Singapore, followed by the UK. All three countries have successfully attracted top talent in the field and have favorable business policies. The UK in particular benefits from its higher education system, Google's DeepMind based in London, Switzerland ranked fourth, Sweden ranked fifth. The two countries ranked first and second in the world in adaptability with a good track record of redeploying resources in the face of new technologies. China ranked relatively low because of regulatory barriers and government intervention in the private sector. We kind of talked about that a little bit earlier in the show, but yeah, what do we think about this? Tristan, you're covering this beat regularly. Sure, yes. And I'm sorry we don't have the rank of Canada on here. It just wasn't in the story we looked at. I know. Where the heck is Canada? So do you think it's a coincidence that three of the top five countries are in Europe, but two of which aren't part of the EU and none of which are part of the Eurozone? That was one of the conclusions of the report is that a lot of Europe lacks the cloud infrastructure needed for AI processing and therefore has to go elsewhere to do that. The financial backing isn't there everywhere. It's there in the UK, it's there in Switzerland but it's not in other places. And most of all the regulatory rules are very strict in Europe. So that's a good question Tristan, which is the European Union proper has done a lot of work to protect jobs, protect privacy ahead of the implementation of AI but the implication of this report is that in doing so, it has reduced the competitiveness of AI within Europe. And don't get me wrong. I'm from Canada, so we love us some regulation up here but when I see the stuff that the EU has been doing up the last number of years, it makes me feel like Peter Thiel. Like a screaming little bit. Oh gosh, sorry for that. We're all seasteading now apparently. So when you see the kinds of moves that the EU has been making, well, we have the today's story about in France, part of the EU, being aggressive against Nvidia, being aggressive against Activision Blizzard acquisitions, being aggressive against Apple with the whole USB-C thing that they were gonna get to anyway, like it was on most of their other devices. It's just this one after another after another and you can't help but think that that's eventually gonna maybe create a bit of a hostile or at least a chilly climate for investment because one of the other stories that's wrapped up with this is recruitment. And if you have lack of funding because of concerns about over-regulation, then it's gonna be hard to recruit. And then if it's hard to recruit, it's gonna be hard to get funding. So you get this vicious cycle where they're creating this not super venture capital friendly environment for tech and Europe's gotta do something to get going again. And we've got these, UK, Switzerland and Sweden which are kind of, they're Europe but they're kind of not Europe each in their own way. And so they're not sub, at least UK and Switzerland don't buy into a lot of the regulation from the super government, the EU parliament which it's like, they just red tape. I mean, I know Switzerland doesn't but Sweden does not as well. Sweden is part of the EU but they're not part of the Eurozone. So they don't use the, they're not currently using the Euro yet. And so there's a number of things that would be associated with that. So they probably have a little more wiggle room than those that are like fully bought in. And of course, the Swiss still on the Swiss franc UK is on the pound and they're not part of the EU anyway, either of them. Yeah, and this is one situation where the UK leaving the European Union has freed them up a little bit and provided a positive in that they, it may be harder for them to collaborate across the channel with European institutions. That's one of the downsides but it's got some flexibility that seems to be at least in the estimation of London's capital economics which granted is in the UK in their estimation it gives the UK a potential advantage here. But at the same time the things that the EU are doing privacy is a good thing, right? You know, promoting competition is a good thing. You know, cracking down on anti-competitive practices and the US is generally a bit more liberal when it comes to these issues. You know, the FTC's latest adventures of the last couple of years, not withstanding but you know, it's all these things happening. There's a reason why the US attracts so much money and so much talent and generates so much innovation and we're not seeing quite as much of that out of places like the EU. And not to pick on Europe. That's one of the reasons they dinged China on this as well was the heavy regulatory practices and the uncertainty of well, if I start a business there am I gonna be able to keep that business there? I have to partner for things like data storage within the country, which is why that loosening of data transfers earlier I think was fairly significant. It's China's, the first indication recently that China's recognizing that this is really a break on foreign companies coming in and that's hurting their economy. Yeah, and the EU's looking at China and thinking, life goals. I don't know if it's that intense or not, but maybe, maybe it isn't. Well, folks, we do a lot of other stuff on our channels. The patrons get a lot of cool shows. If you've been enjoying a free preview week, you know that. One thing that's available to everybody, not restricted to patrons is Tom's Top 5. It's a show I do on our YouTube channel where I break down five things to know usually about technology. Sometimes I stray outside of technology and have a little fun. This week's episode is the top five greatest video game characters of all time. If you want to know what made the list, well, you got to find out by going to youtube.com slash daily tech news show. Well, Google announced support for an extended flag in websites, robots.txt file. You know it, you love it. But let's exclude its site's public data from being used to train Google's AI models. Tom, what's up? Yeah, so if you don't know or love yet the robots.txt file, it's a file that sits in the root directory of a website. So it's there, the first directory that a web crawler that's going around the internet looking at everything that's on the internet will see. It is most often used to tell those crawlers what parts of a site it can index and what it can. There might be a lot of reasons where a site says we for search engine optimization or even just for limited privacy reasons, we don't want this part of our site to show up in a search engine. So they'll put an entry in robots.txt that says, hey, Googlebot, which is the name of the crawler, don't access anything below the homepage, let's say. Google has now added support for a token called Google Dash Extended. So in your little txt file, you can put instructions for Google Extended and when a website includes that, it restricts the use of data collected by the web crawler from being used in AI training without restricting it from being indexed for search. Before it was kind of either or, if you wanted to restrict it from training, you had to restrict it from search, now you don't have to. OpenAI provides a similar option. Tristan, what do you think of this move? Well, I think it's good to give people options and opt out is great. Some people are going, well, why not make it opt in? And because if they did, defaults matter, right? So if they did, they would barely have anything to train on because most people would just not get around to opt in. Even people who wanted to do it wouldn't bother to go put it in. Exactly. Now, I have to admit, I have a strange affection for robots.txt files. Again, from my SEO days and SEO instructing days because it's this weird little text file that a lot of people don't even realize exists. And you can go to change it. Well, and like just explain, like why is it something that is so prevalent today? Well, if you can go to any regular, any of one of your favorite websites and after the domain name slash robots.txt and you can have a look what they've got in there and it's actually very telling what search engines or sorry, what websites would like the search engines to A crawl and B index, which are two different things. And from a search engine optimization point of view, there are certain things that you don't want the search engines to index because it can actually muddy your SEO profile. If you wanna be known for certain things only and ranks very well for certain things, then it's actually in your interests to block certain pages from the search engines. So the search engines have a clear idea of what your site is about and what the clusters of pages are about. So it's actually really interesting to take a look. Say if you go to apple.com slash robots.txt you can see instructions not only to the Googlebot but various other spiders and or crawlers and see what they are actually blocking off a lot of their e-commerce pages, for example. They don't want those pages cached for one things because they may show obsolete pricing. So a lot of websites will do that for promo pages landing pages, splash pages, things like that. So that potentially obsolete content doesn't show up in search results. And that's, I've actually found deals that way doing going through a search but then you get to the deals page and realize it's expired. So that's not necessarily a great look for websites either but you can also see the kinds of things that Apple, for example, is blocking from some of the Chinese search engines. I was just noticing that because I'm looking at that since you mentioned it. Including product red. And because Apple doesn't have product red in China and red means something different in China than it does for product red globally for the fundraising to fight new to combat HIV around the world and particularly Africa. That's not something that China is not that is necessarily on board for, right? So they may have red Apple products in China but they're not product red. So this is whole sort of curating of the visible web pages for not only the search engines but the search engine results what people are actually gonna see. And then just very quickly, the difference between the crawling and indexing is that allowing them to crawl lets them, the spiders or the bots follow the various links through your site to go through the entire hierarchy and get an idea of the topography of your website. And you can prevent that you can also alternatively ask for certain pages not to be indexed, they can be crawled like all the links can be followed but not necessarily indexed and when they're not indexed the snippets won't show up in the search engines and the pages won't be cached as well. So there's different reasons to choose one or the other or both. Yeah. The robots TXT on the DTNS site just says don't index or crawl our admin section. Thanks. Everything else is fine. One post-secondary institution I was working for, they were blocking a crawling of a folder called Fluffy Bunnies. It's like, what is in the Fluffy Bunnies folder? Interesting. One wonders. Google. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, on the subject of this, Google also announced a few new features on its search experience. SGE, including large language model features in Google search, now available to ages 13 through 17 if you're a human in the US, previously restricted from those accounts. They'll still add a way to add it through search labs and the company says it's also adding in stronger protections for outputs related to illegal or age-gated substances or bullying. Google is also adding an about this result note to AI-generated responses from SGE. It will give more context about how the response was generated. And Google also updating its model to detect false or offensive premise queries and respond with more accurate responses as a result. It's also working on using LLMs to analyze its own first draft responses and rewrite them for higher quality and safety. Starting to seem like Google and other AI tool makers are kind of worried about safety because that's what happens when you're big enough. Is that good, Tristan? What I wanna know is when they're gonna open it up to 52-year-old Canadians because we still can't access a lot of- Because you can't get it in Canada yet. No, no Google bar, none of this stuff. So that's why we're teaming here in Canada. Let me add it. Yeah. Exactly. So I guess the question is this, how effective will this be? Or will this just be a challenge for enterprising teenagers to get into these tools regardless of the age? I mean, how many kids do you know that got onto Instagram or Facebook before they were 13? It's really not that complicated. They've always got a friend that can get them in. What have you? Now, I think it is key that they are trying to dissuade the AI from responding to prompts regarding bullying or the consumption or use of either illegal substances or age-restricted substances. And maybe I'll know what those are. And, you know, but those who want that information are gonna find a name. I mean, Google search still exists. Right. It seems like people are worried more about the safety of the barred prompts than they are about the rest of search. And that's what's getting all the heat right now. And it's gonna limit the effectiveness of barred, which again, that's the trade-off. And many of you may be fine with that trade-off, but it does seem like Google is spending a lot more time telling you what it's doing to stop the chatbot from saying anything possibly offensive than it is telling you, oh, we've made it better. And even if it won't tell you how to make a Molotov cocktail, you can still find that on Google. Yeah. Yeah. Well, also things that you can find on Google, I suppose. Officially, Netflix has officially ended its DVD service. Pour out a little liquor, everybody. Netflix launched in 1998. And by the way, with the company's announcement of winding down DVD services, it reminded folks, Beetlejuice, the movie, the first title shipped. The company set a record in 2011 with 4.9 million DVDs shipped in a single day. In total, the company says it shipped five billion DVDs. Ah, this is a momentous day, the last day. I know, I know. You know, besides Roger Chang, I don't know who else cares all that much. I got my last three discs the day before yesterday. And you get to keep them, right? I get to keep them. I mean, they will take, they will accept returns until the end of the next month. If you don't want to keep them, you can. If these small little keepsakes are taking too much space in your home. But, you know, I've always wanted to talk to you. What'd you get? What'd you get? You got to tell us the titles. Everybody wants to know what to get. I got shortcuts. Right there. Shortcuts, you know, Robert Altman movie. Yes, yes. And then I also got volume one and two of the new adventures of Batman, the complete series, which is the 1960s animated Batman featuring Bert Ward. It's still doing Robin, but someone else doing Batman. They held it. Are you going to file those with your late blockbuster returns? I will file it under the other things I have in my room that I will probably forget in a month's time. And if a Canadian says quickster three times quickly, we finally get the DVD by mail service here because we never had Netflix by mail here. We had a copycat called zip.ca, but we just got Netflix purely streaming. I mean, which was great, although it was like a quarter or 20 percent of the of the catalogue. I don't know if they'll mail to Vancouver, but there's a video store in Seattle that's doing by mail now because Netflix is getting out of the business. So it might be worth looking into. Fill that gap. Just like red. Is red box still a thing? Yeah, there's one by local grocery store. I saw some guys stand in front of a try to pick a movie the other day. Amazing. Well, Tristan Jutrat, thank you so much for being with us. Whether you have DVDs or not, we really, really appreciate having you with us. Let folks know where they can keep up with your work. You can find our regular live streams at seven p.m. Pacific Time at momentous.tv and Teja from momentous. And I started a little show thanks to the encouragement and support from all of y'all at DTNS. And that's called A.I. Named This Show, which is, you know, we aimed for the dumbest possible name, but at least at least it's memorable and it's got great SEO. So you can find us at A.I. NamedThisShow.com and I'm at Tristan Jutrat and that's J-U-T-R-A-S on pretty much all the socials. Excellent. Well, folks, it's the last day of free preview week. We do have a little something coming into your feeds tomorrow on Saturday. All this week, we were given everyone access to the Good Day Internet Extended Show. I hope you've enjoyed that. If you did and you want to keep it coming, you can just become a patron. Go to patreon.com slash DTNS and all of you all stick around for the Extended Show Good Day Internet. It's Friday, so we're playing another round of Who Am I? Roger has researched great tech people in history and we're going to try to guess who he picked one clue at a time. Come play along with us. Do so. Just a reminder, we do this show live Monday through Friday, 4 p.m. Eastern, 20 hundred UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. We will be back on Monday with Justin Robert Young joining us. Have a great weekend, everyone. This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show were created by the following people, host, producer and writer Tom Merritt, host, producer and writer Sarah Lane, executive producer and Booker Roger Chang, producer, writer and co-host Rob Dunwood, video producer and Twitch producer Joe Koontz, technical producer Anthony Lemos, Spanish language host, writer and producer Dan Campos, science correspondent Dr. Nicky Ackermans, social media producer and moderator Zoe Detterday. Our mods, Beatmaster, W. Scottus One, BioCow, Captain Gipper, Steve Guadarrama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens, a.k.a. Gadget Virtuoso and J.D. Galloway. Modern video hosting by Dan Christensen. Music and Art provided by Martin Bell, Dan Looters, Atmosapha A, A-Cast and Len Peralta. A-Cast adds support from Tatiana Matias, Patreon support from Tom McNeill. Contributors for this week's shows include Chris Ashley, Scott Johnson and Chris Christensen. Our guest this week was Tristan Jutra. And thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at Frogpants.com. Diamond Club, I hope you have enjoyed this program. Surrey is in there saying I like to read the credits along with Tom on Fridays. Does anyone else do this? I kind of love that idea. I do. Everyone in the audience, like, in. Tatiana Matias and everyone. Yeah, I wonder if Tatiana knows just how many people know how to. I find it very soothing. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. To remind everybody who who is part of this, you know, I mean, it takes a village, right? Maybe I'll I'll slip in like a little like fun nugget like snacks provided by Oscar Meyer. Or something like that. Margaritaville. Ah, yes, my base is provided by Margaritaville. Oh, well, your mileage may vary. Can but you provide this? Well, folks, if you want to submit a title, you should go do that right now, because we are going to use your suggestions to name the show. Go to show about TV slash D T N S to if you are watching or listening live in the Discord or on the Twitch. I have not properly prepared the theme music for our Friday fun time. So give me one second here. It's it's not. No, that's that's that's that's not right. Is it called Friday fun time? I don't know. I just know I just, you know, that's not right either. Are you going to play it live, Tom? No, no, that's the wrong one. The keys to the Ivory's. There we go. It's time for something. I don't know what it's called. It's Friday. It's fun. It's time. I feel like I'm in bubble. Yeah, Tom, OK, indeed, indeed. And it is time for who am I? Roger has researched someone that we're going to try to guess. What what's the matter? No, no, I'm laughing because I researched it. No, just go ahead. Gosh. Both of you. So I will give a clue, Tristan and Sarah, you all will try to guess who it is. If you don't guess on the first clue, that's totally normal. We'll just move on to another clue, but we only have 10 clues. So we want to try to guess who it is before we get to the 10. Oh, is it? I'll meet you at number eight. We only have eight clues. Thank you. At least someone understands me. All right, let's do it. All right, here's the first clue for our first person. They are written in first person voice. So the clue is I designed an early form of hydrofoil, a boat with wings under the water that claimed the world marine speed record of seventy point eight, six miles an hour in 1919. Jacques Cousteau. Oh, good guess. I have no guesses because based on his clue alone. First, my mind is Leonardo da Vinci, but that was a little after Leonardo da Vinci, a little too old. Yeah, Jacques Cousteau, probably too young for nineteen. It's like the kind of thing he would have come up with on paper. Sure. Yeah. It certainly was. All right, we'll go to right to clue number two, then. After the shooting of US President Garfield in 1882, I was summoned twice. He really hated that day. I was summoned twice to help locate the bullet lodged in his body using a form of metal detector I developed. And sadly, I was unsuccessful both times. Don't know who did that. But I salute you, like a person that probably worked for the US government. I salute you. We're Edison era here, for sure. Yeah. But it is not Thomas Edison. OK, no, it is not Thomas Edison. OK. All right. Now, if you've seen, come on, come on, you see, I'm only doing one guess around here. So yeah, yeah. All right. All right. If you've seen the made for TV movie about Helen Keller, maybe, maybe this will ring a bell. I helped connect Helen Keller with Ann Sullivan, Helen's tutor, who helped her right speak and read Braille. So think, think back. Who, what, what famous name from history that would have been alive in 1882 and 1919? Benjamin Franklin. He's too old. He died in the 1700s. I don't know. I mean, OK. It's not Thomas Edison. But it's that era, Thomas Edison era, for sure. Uh, I don't know. Was there another guy that was like working with electricity at the time? Well, it's not Tesla, is it? It's not Nikola Tesla, no. OK. Pass. All right. All right. Yeah. Clue four. The unit for sound measurement was named in my honor. OK. So maybe we can do this one together. What's the unit? The unit for sound measurement. We should have it on our audio interfaces or something. Right. I mean, this is this is a little. I'm just going to say, Roger, this one's a little bit deceptive because it's not one of the common sound measurements that you run into every day as a podcaster. Well, I'm just going to give you a little like more. Maybe home theater. These is like decibel in his honor, like Dessa is 10s or 10s of. Decebel. Oh. Tom, are you dropping hints in the clue for the previous? Decebel, Sarah, can we do this? I don't think. Sure. Decebel, Bell. Is there Bell someone with a surname of Bell? AT&T, anyone? Roger's coughing. Thomas is looking at us. Weirdly, like, what the heck is happening? Watson, I need you to was it Alexander Graham Bell? Oh, indeed, indeed it was. Alex was like ringing a bell on the last clue. Come on, Alexander Graham Bell. You know, now it makes sense. Is that even really? Is it really named after his honor? Or is that just like a retcon? I think it is. Tell us about it, Roger. Why? What are the details? So it was named after his death. So it wasn't when he was alive to honor his contributions to acoustical science. It's a standard unit for intensive sound waves measured in the 1920s. That's about one tenth of a bell is the most commonly used metric for measuring magnitude of noise. There you go. And it's like logarithmic or something, too. I'm always confused by DBS. Like, why in your stereo is it negative? The sound is logarithmic volume. Yeah, logarithmic. Yes, volume is logarithmic. Yeah, we need Patrick. That's all over its volume units, though. I was thinking about that the other day where I'm like, why is it that like a negative two is the right? Oh, that's because it's the it's a different. It's it's it's the same measurement, but you're measuring. There's a term for a night. Totally spacing on it. But there's I get that. And I can work with that. But I'm like, why is it not just zero? Oh, that's because zero is where water freezes at sea level, right? Well, I mean, it's the same reason why. Probably, yeah. On the Belsia scale. Yes. I see what you did there. The other clues were he created the first wireless telephone using light waves. Of course, you need to have a direct line of sight. We birdie. How many birds do you know? Yeah. And then after his death in the U.S. in Canada, telephones were silent for one minute as his body was being lowered into the grave. What does that mean? The telephones were silenced. Like if you made a call with all the all the switch operators wouldn't switch anyone over from one to a call. OK, so they just sat down the entire telephone network for a minute. Really, Tomlin took a beat. And then the other one I threw in here because of you, Tristan, I said, because of my that was in 1922. Sorry, I think it was important to note when that was that he died. It was 1922. So only three years after he set that hydrofoil record. Yeah, he was he was still cranking on. Yes, yes. Clue number five was because of his significant accomplishments, he's been claimed both by Canadian Americans alike as one of their. Ah, I mean, probably the problem is not really a problem is the situation is he worked on the telephone both in Boston and back in Canada, and he kind of frequently went back and forth. So it was more like, you know, was he Canadian? Was he born? He was a Canadian citizen. He was also he was Scottish. He was a Scottish born in Scotland. Yes. Well, the Scots should claim him, too, then. Probably. Yes, they do. Very, very looking Roy. Hmm. Or Ted Cruz. The last clue was a large monopolistic American telco was named after me. That's a that clue. I this is like, let me just try to give you everything as much as I can without naming the person. OK, OK. Next one. Come on. Yes. Next one. OK, this this one is is a literary figure. I'm just going to say that because we were thinking technology. So I want to Roger. Is there a particular reason you chose this person? The the clue in the clue, the third clue, third clue, OK, clue number one, though, in World War Two, I was a fighter pilot for the RAF flying the last biplanes used by the service. And after a crash in North Africa, I flew Hocker Hurricanes and participated in the Battle of Athens. John McCain, you know what? I think this person is probably like actually relatively close to John McCain's age. But no, it was not it was not John McCain. I was just thinking, I'm thinking more even more literary than John McCain. Oh, yes, it's a literary character. Right. Yeah. So it's not a real person. No, no, no, it's a it's a it's a real person. Oh, OK, just. But in the literary world. Sure. Oh, OK. Well, OK. Next clue to keep it moving due to injuries from combat. I was made an air attaché and assigned to the diplomatic post in Washington, D.C. During my time there, I was recruited by the M.I. Six to spy on the United States and help Churchill get along with President Roosevelt. Oh, gosh. Ian Fleming. It's very in Fleming sounding, isn't it? It is not a good guess. The literary figure fits the profile, but no, it is not Ian Fleming. There's some in Fleming news we should talk about later. Oh, yeah, I thought he was gone. I can't. I can't think of who this would be. All right, clue number three after my son was left with hydrocephalus or water on the brain after a car accident. I teamed up with a pediatric neurosurgeon and a toy maker slash hydraulic engineer. Joe Biden. So close to develop a cerebral shunt valve to drain the fluid. The valve was put into production in 1962 and has been used to treat 3,000 children worldwide. Oh, my goodness. Literary spy figure who worked on developing a pediatric cerebral shunt valve. None of these are Angelina Jolie. Yeah, that's correct. It's a share in mask. Yeah. OK, here's the first clue that might actually help you get it. All right, all right. No more hydrocephalic clues. Come on, come on, you know. Clue number three is just justifying what the technology aspect of this person. Clue number four, my time in the RAF inspired me to write my first book, which Disney commissioned a movie for. But it was never made Walt Disney. The move. Oh, oh, no, I think Disney made lots of Waltz movies. So this is a this is an. I just don't know. I don't know the answer. I'm trying to help you out here, Sarah. It's not like I know, I know, I know. OK, so work for Disney. Dr. She didn't work for Disney, but his book was commissioned to become a Disney movie. So that tells you a little bit about what kinds of stuff Disney adjacent. Yeah, that's what I meant. Is it. Does not Chuck Yeager. I'm sorry, I usually don't look at the chat. So Clue is RAF, so he's British. Did we get to that before British? Yeah, we knew he spied for the M.I. Six. Right, right. But this confirms RAF. Yeah, I thought M.I. Six was like just anyway, a different conversation. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Number five. I married in a. I shot my shot. I said, Dr. C. So I'm pretty sure that's not it. No, it's not British. Clue number five. I married an American actress and had five kids, one of whom served as a consultant on screen adaptation of a book I wrote. This is not Joe Biden. OK, I know. It sounds just like him. OK, who did that? My son, Bo. No. OK, you know what? That's not funny. OK. I don't know. I could have brought a hunter. That would have been worse. I give up. Clue number six. OK, although I'm not primarily. Although I've known primarily for my children's stories, I also had a parallel career writing adult macabre stories. One of these stories was adapted three times for a TV and once as a movie. Shell Silverstein. No, but that's very close. You are so in the right. I thought I was right. Who who is exactly like Shell Silverstein, but isn't Shell Silverstein is what you need to be thinking. Is it someone who is being posthumously canceled? No. Is it a role doll? It is. In fact, role is he being canceled? Well, he's got some dark stuff. Well, there's some problematic stuff in there. Isn't that they're trying to go back and edit, re-edit some of his? Yeah, they actually that that's the story I heard is that they went back and are publishing Roald Dahl's older stories with edits that make them more palatable to the modern sensibility. Goodness gracious. OK, do we have another one? Come on, I want to do it. All right. Anything anything about Roald Dahl that you want to do that we didn't get to Roger? Love is good. He was he was he was a pilot. He was a spy and he was a children's author. All right, one good movie from his words, and that's it. Fantastic, Mr. Fox, James and the Giant Peach, Charlie and the Giant Peach. You know, Fantastic, Mr. Fox, I'll give you, but James and the Giant Peach. I was like, a lot of it was Tim Burton involved in that one, too. Like. Oh, he was about to want. I feel like Tim Burton is like has been channeling Roald Dahl for decades. Maybe I don't know this person. That's the third person. Great. I thought of it. Come on, come on, let's look alive here. So I thought maybe. Yeah, maybe maybe it's just me. Clue number one, my mother was one of the first women in Guatemala to complete medical school and had me at age 42, despite being single. Pass. In what year? I mean, that's not a good. OK, keep going. All right. My gateway to technology and science was a Commodore 64 computer. My mother bought me when I was eight years old. Is it me? I was going to say, is it me? It's me. It's all of us. It's all three of us. I was a big 20 when I was 10, so close. Oh, that's I just sounds very familiar. OK, I feel contemporary of ours. Yeah, OK, this this is a very contemporary technology person. I just looked them up. Number three, I was listed in fast companies, 100 most innovative people in business. When? Doesn't say. Was his fast company in the 90s. But he was a very different than fast. It was anybody got a Commodore 64. So that's a man. It's a he. Well, let's just say Satya and Della. No, I received a bachelor's of science in mathematics from Duke University, a PhD in computer science from Carnegie Mellon and became a faculty member at Carnegie Mellon in 2006. There are Duke people. Duke people are kind of weird. They they they they're like Duke people. Get ready for comments. Duke people are kind of weird. Sarah Lane. No, they are. They know they are. Yeah, they'll even agree. They're that weird. Yeah, they're they're they're Duke centric when I say weird. OK, so this is an innovative tech person from Duke and taught at Carnegie Mellon or possibly still teaches at Carnegie. Yeah, because yeah, at first I was thinking like Andreessen, but he doesn't teach and it's the wrong. Yeah, it's the wrong. Clue number five, I had to spend $1,200 to fly to El Salvador to take my TOEFL test of English as a foreign language when I was applying to universities in the U.S. Oh, hence the guanamama background. I forgot about that. All right. Interesting. Who would that be? All right. Here's the first clue that will help you narrow down the arena in which this person is. I still would never have gotten this person's name, but at least I might have started to know. Oh, maybe they mean this person. I helped coin the term capture, along with Manuel Blum, Nicholas J. Hopper and John Langford. We all know those guys, right, Sarah? 100 percent. Roger is punking us. I'm sorry. I don't know. This is a fairly obscure. You'll know the company this person runs better than you ever know this. Well, no, but you know her name. We haven't talked about Linda. I will accept like, oh, is it the person who runs this company? As a correct answer is what I'm saying, because I don't think you would ever know the person's name. Would it be? I don't know. Tristan, help. Someone with a cosmopolitan background international. And it's not that's the wrong continent. Now that I've said that clue eight is basically just going to become irrelevant. But clue seven, give it to us. Clue seven. I invented recapture, a new form of capture that also helps digitize books. OK, Roger, you think we wouldn't get it on capture, but we would somehow get it on recapture. Are you kidding? Yeah. Oh, the recapture. Oh, we have to lady. I say I want to I want to talk to the guy who is making us click on crosswalks and bicycles. I want to add I'll add on to clue seven. Oh, I know, by the way, a cast with the now you log into a cast. It's like you have to click on motorcycles every day. It's ridiculous. I will add to clue seven. This person used what they learned at in in in researching capture to inform the product of the company they are now a part of. In other words, that idea of having users answer questions and then taking that data to improve the product in which they that they are using. That sounds like reinforcement learning humans. Yeah, like who's the CEO of last pass? You know, I I don't know. I don't know. All right. It's not someone with the one of the AI company. I'm going to rephrase clue eight, Roger, in order to keep to my earlier stipulation. Keep us from, you know, crying. OK. Here's clue eight. Does or is a question for clue eight. Does did Roger actually know who this was? Yeah, Roger, did you know this person when you made this? No. OK. OK. It's a learning experience for everyone. We can return everyone learn. That's the whole point. Anyway, OK, go clue eight. I co-founded a language translation app company with my graduate student, Severin Hacker, and I am also the company's CEO. Sam Albin. Language translation company. I co-founded a language translation app. With my graduate student, Severin Hacker. My dad runs. Just start naming language apps. Yeah, yeah. Good. Do. Um, who? I don't know. Don't worry. I, you know, in the person who's never named the person. Just name it. It's not maybe he can teach us typing. Not Rosetta's. No, it's, um, I get, um, hold on. Phone, Sarah. Calm down learning Spanish. Duolingo. Correct. Louis Vaughn. Oh, I actually had to look at my phone. I remember the name of it. Louis, Louis, Louis, he's not right. Louis, Louis Vaughn on my dad. Love. Well, thanks, Roger, for throwing us under that big old bus. Well, now you know who co-founded and runs Duolingo also helped put together the CAPTCS systems we now use and came up with a better CAPTCS system. I got news here about you. We already forgot. What's his name again? Louise, Louise Vaughn on Vaughn on. Oh, is there some German in there too? Is he? Yeah, he's a lot of German down in Latin America. Yeah. Should we, should we explore better and worse? Nope. Turns out. Yeah. All right. Do we all Germans do that? Leave it at that. Not all. No. His family is of Jewish descent. Oh, wow. OK. Different reason. There is, I don't know if you guys have much left. I know we don't have tons of time left, but there is a couple of other interesting adjacent stories to that whole robots.txt thing that one of which I was a story that I thought I'd sent Roger who was very late last night in terms that I never actually sent him the link. And that was that that was like open AI is going to be playing ball with people who don't want them to to scan this. And you may have covered it. We alluded to it, that open AI is also honoring this. And I know a bunch of sites like New York Times have already blocked open eyes. They're like, no, thanks. Now, the thing is, it's like with a lot of these the big search engines will will follow the rules because they don't want to run afoul of the terms of service. But there's lots of rogue crawlers out there. They don't care anyway. They'll just ignore robots.txt and they can go and they can go and train their malignant LLMs. So that's the thing. But I thought one of the other things I thought was a bit more interesting was there was another. Did you hear about Google was someone found out that Google was sharing was indexing barred chats. That you had shared with other people. So if you did like a you know, you're using barred for something kind of like you can do in Bing chat, whatever. Yeah. And then there's that you guys. Do you guys talk about it already? I don't know if we talked about it on the show or not now that I can't remember it. But yeah, it was like the the the Kerberos, the snake that eats itself, basically. Yeah. And then so you could go in the search stuff. And if you if you use the the prompt. That's right. In the in just in Google proper, just limited it to the certain domain, which was like a barred dot Google dot com or whatever, because you can do like domain specific searches. And so Google jumped on that and killed it right away. So you couldn't search for that subdomain, but it still works on Bing. So oh, yeah. So if you go to Bing and search that, you can actually go and see like queries that people have thrown at Barton, it's still all public. So Google just flipped a switch, but it wasn't a very good switch. So interesting. Be careful what you're putting into barred, because if you've ever shared it with any any single person, it's it's been indexed by Google and could be a lot of what you're putting in a prompt doesn't matter if it gets out there public. But part of it's the principle and part of it is if you are creating a prompt that has personal information on it, you may not want that out on on the internet, right? How many people are being very careful, though? Yeah, especially because people aren't aware that that's a possible implication of what they're what they're putting in there. Just never assume what you're doing on the internet is private, unless you're really sure it's private is a good policy overall as a user. You know, well, thank you to the folks who make this possible. I hope you've enjoyed Free Preview Week. Like I said, if you have, please head over to patreon.com slash DTNS. We like to thank everybody who gives us support in all kinds of ways, including folks who give us a raise. Tom, not me, different Tom, Jim and John all raised their pledges. Thank you, Tom, Jim and John and every single one of our patrons. Also, a big thank you to the folks who support us on Twitch. That's how we were able to have a video. Kitharal gave us a follow. Paley Glendale gave us bits. Lint Monkey gave us a follow. Zoe Brings Bacon gave us bits. S. Dubb Texas cheered us with bits and re-subscribed for the 29th month. Thank you, S. Dubb. GPay 84 re-subscribed to tier one for the 44th month. We also got files, follows from Ryan in Minneapolis and density five to four. Thank you again, Tristan. It was great hanging out with you, man. Thanks for having me again. It was good to be back until tomorrow. Everyone have a good day. Have a good day and a great weekend. Have a good day.