 How many of you made it out to the beach? Yeah, fun. Did you make it to any great parties? Oh, yeah, give me a woo-woo! Oh, that was sad. Give me a two of me again. Yeah, you guys, I realize you've been yelling a lot, and your voice is a little messed up, but yeah, we've got to work on that. So before I get started with some announcements, I want to make a quick statement. One of the key values in the Drupal community is inclusivity. We want everyone in Drupal to find their place and be able to learn and contribute with confidence. Now yesterday during the pre-note, the CCIB Cameraman made a choice that doesn't really align. It's not consistent with those values. And at the Drupal Association, we just want to take a moment and say that we're very sorry about that, and we hope that all of us can enjoy a productive, safe, and fun DrupalCon. So for those of you who don't know me, I'm Josh Mitchell. I'm the CTO for the Drupal Association. My team works on Drupal.org. And we've been doing quite a few things over the past year and a half or so that we've had this technology team built up for the Drupal Association. A big part of what we've been doing has been setting priorities and initiatives that we can really focus on. And last, well, almost exactly a year ago in Amsterdam, we released a roadmap that kind of talked about some of the key things that we wanted to do. And we've been hard at work over the last year improving Drupal.org in our infrastructure, doing some great things, like updating a whole bunch of servers to make stuff faster. We put a CDN in place that makes the connecting to Drupal and the page load speeds way better for Europe. I apologize for what it was like before. It's really improved over the last year. We've also done some great things in terms of implementing things for the community, like better profiles. We now have this community role. And I don't know how many of you have the community role on Drupal.org? Yeah, I need your help. When you're at the sprints that are coming up, you need to help confirm new people to Drupal, right? The whole confirm a user role is about spam prevention, but it's also about having an opportunity to welcome people to the community and say, hey, we recognize you're trying to do something cool. And it's really important during sprints because it speeds them up and it helps them do things like submit patches that much quicker. I also want to talk about a couple things that we've done a little bit more recently. So the team for the last quarter or so has been focused on unblocking Drupal 8. There's a lot of criticals that were in place that were tied to Drupal.org infrastructure and we wanted to jump in and make a difference. One of the big ones has been Drupal CI. I don't know how familiar you are with Drupal CI, but if you are regularly submitting patches, your patches go through this process of tests. And those tests allow us to know whether it's safe to include that patch and commit it into core. And there are at this time over 12,000 tests that test over 110,000 assertions in just Drupal core. So if we're talking about Drupal 8 every time something's trying to come in, that is so important for the core maintainers to be able to get good stuff in there. And we've been doing a lot about making that infrastructure really fast so that we can speed up the velocity. And there's been a lot to basically make it so that code can get in more quickly. And that's just exciting work. There's been some great volunteers, Jeremy Thoris and Ricardo Amaro, the rest of the Drupal CI team working with staff to get that launched and it's been really, really positive. Right now you can test all of your Drupal 8 code using Drupal CI and very soon you'll be able to test Drupal 6 and Drupal 7 as well. Another thing that's kind of cool, I don't know the last time any of you used search on Drupal.org, let's face it, we all use Google or DuckDuckGo or whatever our favorite search engine is. But I would like for you to take a step back and actually try using Drupal.org search again. For a long time we've had a solar implementation there that was not at all customized to the content we have. We've done some key improvements. If you search for your organization's name it might actually appear at the top. If you search for a module name it will appear at the top now which is pretty awesome. I encourage you to test it. Also give us feedback, use the Drupal.org Customizations issue queue and you can respond to the search issue that's in there. Another big thing that we've been working on for a while has been this notion of issue credits and this really ties back to a lot of what Dries talked about in Amsterdam of how do we give credit to the people and organizations that are helping contribute to Drupal. Now since we launched this in March-ish we've had over 12,000 issue credits that have been issued to 2,800 individuals and those 2,800 individuals have taken the time to attribute over 300 organizations that have helped build Drupal. Whether that's by contributing the employee's time or by actually funding key improvements to Drupal. So I'm really excited about something because we took a moment last night to launch a feature we've been wanting to do for a while. What you're seeing scroll down right now is a snapshot from last night. This is the new Marketplace. Our Marketplace listings are now ordered by the top contributing organizations as measured by issue credits. Isn't that pretty awesome? I wanna thank all those that have given the time of their employees that the people who have given their own time, their volunteer time. I wanna thank the companies that are giving back to Drupal. That is critical to us growing the project. Now selfishly, I'm also gonna talk a little bit about one of the things that is critical to the funding of Drupal.org. This is what the technology team at the Drupal Association is focused on. And the only way we're able to do that is by the generous support of our supporting partners. We have supporting partners. We have premium supporting partners. We have one signature supporting partner thank you Wunderkraut. We also have hosting partners that we work with and we have technology supporting partners who either provide us with funds or in some case they provide us with really significant in kind donations in terms of services that they can provide to help deliver Drupal.org in the ecosystem. I don't know how many people know it but we push 20 terabytes a month of data in and out of our infrastructure to provide Drupal to the world. And that's pretty awesome. So thank you very much for supporting Drupal.org and the community that is built around that. I have a few quick announcements to go through. First of all, wifi, one device at a time please. It seems to be getting better, which I'm happy about. Coffee, there is a free coffee break at the back of the exhibit hall after the keynote. There's also an inexpensive paid coffee throughout the day available all day long for a Euro 50. Lunch options, remember as Holly said let the vegans eat. If you have a special meals be sure to go over to the right hand side of the buffet station and pick that up. We do have one small schedule change for today in the community training sessions from one to 2 p.m. in room 127. We're gonna have a public speaking training session by Emma Jane. So if you're interested in that I highly recommend it. Emma Jane is an awesome trainer when it comes to public speaking. Code of conduct. So if you see anything please feel free to report to Adam, Matteo or Donna. Everyone, everyone deserves a good con. Trivia night. How many of you have done a trivia night before? How many of you are going to do a trivia night tonight for the first time? I'm sorry, tomorrow night. I actually fixed the slide. Tomorrow night? Okay, I want you, you, you and you on my team because you get more points if you bring on somebody who's new. Okay, well, be sure to make it. It is a ton of fun. Truly one of my favorite moments in DrupalCon. Drupal Store. How many of you saw my lovely dark side of the moon t-shirt here with a little Drupal drop? Yeah, you can get those at the Drupal Store. We also have a couple of cool ones with like a Drupal Pac-Man and built with Drupal. A lot of cool new t-shirts. You should get one. You can get one for your dog too if you're into that kind of thing. Contribution sprints. How many people are sprinting? How many people are going to sprint? Okay, I got a few more there. Yeah, spend some time this weekend. I would actually say sprinting with your fellow Drupalers is a cool way to kind of get engaged with people and network with people who are gonna help you grow in the Drupal community. And it's also helping gets things done in Drupal, which is critical right now. We have sprints throughout the week here at the convention center during the day, the all night quota lounge at the Princess Hotel. And then this Friday is kind of a big sprint day. We have the general sprints, the mentored core sprint, the first time sprinter workshop. That will also all be here at the convention center. And then stick around for Saturday and Sunday, we have extended sprints at the makers of Barcelona. Photo contest. Thanks Tina and Tim. So if you take a photo with, I love Tom calls them little trees. If you take a photo with little trees because it's a good foot short, I'm telling ya. Be sure to tweet it with the hashtag Drupalcon pics. I believe it's the five funniest pictures. That's gonna be a tough one. Five funniest pictures will be used in the closing session. And you'll be brought up on stage for a drawing for a chance to win a ticket to Drupalcon, Europe. Yeah, you guys thought I was gonna say what it was. You gotta come to the closing session. All right, at this time I'm gonna hand it over to Tom Wentworth, the chief marketing officer from Acquia and he's gonna introduce today's keynote. Thanks Tom. We hope to have little trees here on stage with me. Real trees is in the front row. Little trees is far more height appropriate for me personally. So I feel better about myself when he's standing next to me. So again, I'm Tom Wentworth with the chief marketing officer at Acquia. If you haven't stopped by our booth yet at Drupalcon, please do. We have our annual t-shirt giveaway. We actually create a different t-shirt for every Drupalcon, so if you've got one before, come get one again, they're pretty cool. And we've also got lots of great booth presentations being given by members of our technical team on lots of interesting topics yesterday with security and there's some great topics there today. I'd encourage you guys to check out. So I'm here to introduce Natalie Nahai. Natalie is a web psychologist, international speaker and author of the best-selling book, Webs of Influence at Psychology of Online Persuasion. The foremost expert in web psychology, Natalie helps businesses apply scientific rigor to their website design, content marketing and products. She's worked with Fortune 500 companies, design agencies and subject matter experts including Google, eBay, Unilever, and Harvard Business Review, to name a few. I've been following on Twitter for the last 24 hours and she's funny and smart, so I definitely encourage you to follow her on Twitter as well. And if you're gonna follow her, definitely tweet along today with the hashtag DCNahai. With that, I'd like to introduce Natalie Nahai. Good morning, everyone. Did you all have a fun party last night? Due to the silence, it's like, if we speak, we're just gonna bath. I was promised a bath bucket this morning, but I left at 11.30 last night, so hopefully I won't need it. Anyway, it's a real pleasure to be here with you all. You party hard and you're a lot of fun from what I've seen. And just a quick side note, I actually started off in designing and developing websites with HTML and Dreamweaver and then later WordPress, which is like the basic version of Drupal. I did look into using Drupal, but it's quite advanced. Anyway, I really believe in the open source approach to making these sorts of tech available to the wider public, so it's really a privilege to be here with you. So let's dive in. I'm gonna be speaking today about the psychology of online persuasion. You are very welcome to tweet with me. I am at Natalina High. I help these sorts of companies and I use Web Psychology, which is the empirical study of how our online environments influence our attitudes and behaviors. And the reason I use this is because it provides some kind of a toolkit or framework to help us understand how and why people behave online the way that they do. And it draws from all of these different types of research. There's loads of disciplines that are being carried out throughout the world across different types of approaches, I guess. So you've got things like persuasive tech from MIT, BJ Fogg's work. You've got personality psychology, which is fascinating. You've got cross-cultural, UX, social, digital humanities, behavioral economics, neuro-esthetics, which is the study of how we respond to visual stimuli at a brain activity level. So it's kind of drawing in research insights from all of these fields to give us a bit of a roadmap. And that's kind of how we define it up here. So, today I'm gonna talk with you about the metaphorical three systems brain. And this is basically a motivational model to help us understand how to apply some of these principles. Are you, can you hear? Are you all right over there? You're gonna be twisting your head. Okay, all right, fine. Okay, so this basic model is based on the triune brain, which is a neuropsychological model that was proposed that gives an idea about how and why the brain developed throughout evolution. But the brain is very, very complex and it's much more complex than this model. However, it is useful for understanding hidden motivations so that we can design more persuasive experiences, oops, excuse me, for our clients, for your clients. So, first of all, we're gonna look at the firewall system. We're gonna go in some principles and then there will be some fun examples. And I will be encouraging you to interact with me because there are some interactive bits, so hold tight. Okay, primal system is probably what you were engaging a lot of last night. It's common to all animals and it looks after your basic vital functions. So like not getting killed when you cross the road or you're sitting there, you've all had your breakfast and you're not thinking to yourself, right, well I need this enzyme to go and digest the pancake I had this morning. It also enables you to look at your environment and assess very quickly, very subconsciously, whether it's risky or whether it's safe. So this is kind of the freeze fight and flight mechanism. It also looks for opportunities for sex, which is great, and for food. So how does this apply online? Well, cues for sex. We're not gonna touch anything to risque this morning, sadly, although there was some twerking going on last night. I wanna first of all kick off with this image. Now, quick poll of the room. I'm gonna ask you which image you prefer. So put your hand up if you personally prefer the image on the left, if that's the one that you find the most attractive. Okay, there's no trick here. It's literally just personal preference. What about the one in the middle? Hands up if that's your preferred one. Yeah, all right, and what about the one on the right? Hands up if that's your preferred one. Okay, and hands up those of you who not really sure it's not much difference really. Okay, some of us. And those of you who haven't put your hands up feel like I will not be tricked this early in the morning. Okay, so the thing that's going on here, I don't know if you've, can anyone know what's going on here? Does anyone wanna guess? Yes, excellent. So the left is asymmetrical, you're quite right, it's the original image. The middle and the right one are actually symmetrical, but people do usually talk about freckles because that's the most evident thing so you can tell by the positioning of the moles. Now what we find in research, very in mind that we're looking at the primal system and cues for sex, is that typically we tend to prefer people whose faces and physique are symmetrical. And the reason for this is that it's sort of an indicator of good genetic fitness or health, which is why the kinds of people that we have as pinups tend to be very symmetrical. But what's really strange is that this sexual preference in mates also extends to non-shaggable things like websites and buildings and geometric shapes and works of art. So when you're using this kind of technique, you can do it within the design of your sites to get people to feel more comfortable and find it more attractive. Quick side note, if you have a client that's using, say for instance, like The New York Times, who's using long form content and you want them to read all the way to the bottom, make sure you don't split it up and divide it into chunks because people actually will bounce off much more quickly. So the symmetry there provides a different kind of use. Okay, the second thing I want to touch on briefly for the primal system, cues for images of food and drink. This is very, very simple. Again, a lot of these principles are quite subtle, but they have an impact. Great example here. You'll see on the websites is Squarespace. They use a little bit of food and drink just to make it feel a bit more lived in. The virtual space feels quite removed to us most of the time unless you're using haptics like your phone's buzzing or whatever it might be. And so this is a great way to get people to feel a bit more of an emotional response to otherwise quite a flat space. Other example, Trunk Club. This is for men if you can't be asked to go and buy your own clothes. I wish they had this service for women. Great example, they're not basically saying we're gonna get you loads of clothes. They're showing you a social situation in which the guy is obviously looking happy with a drink. It feels much more emotive as a cool traction to get them started. Motion is a really interesting one. And I see that you've used this on some of your websites to serve the clients like Tesla, et cetera, which we'll look at a little bit later. Now motion is interesting because it always attracts our peripheral vision. And attention is very, very limited online so you have to be very careful in how you spend it. It's also why these things are so difficult to not look at. And I have a quick video of various things. So you see the bottom left where it says walk through. It grabs your attention. And then another one example here, conversion rate experts. The use of motion in the pop-up grabs your attention again. So it's that sense of wherever there's attention, you get, well, sorry, wherever there's motion, you get attention. Now this trend, I don't recommend that you use it and there's a reason for this. Whenever you're looking at a video in the background, you're not going to be attending to other elements on the page. And so you've got to be careful in how it alters your click-through rates and your conversion rates. So just use motion sparingly and with a specific action in mind. Okay, making abstract concepts, contrasting and concrete. This is a really useful one to know, especially in marketing. What do you think is happening in this advert? What do you think they're trying to tell you? This is for standard life investments. Hands off anyone who wants to guess. What are they doing? Yes, over there. Before and after, yep. And what do you think they're telling you? What's the story, do you think, that's going on here? Yes, they're basically helping you to get from one place to another. So if we think about the message that they're trying to deliver, their legality would have had an absolute field day with this, by the way. They're basically saying, and this is in the West, when we read left to right. In fact, let's just do another quick experiment. I'd like you all to point towards the future. Where do you feel the future is for you? Point towards it. Okay, so most people are kind of doing this. Is that about right? Like forward and right? Up, okay? So usually it's kind of, if you're right handed, usually it will be kind of in this quarter or kind of like here somewhere, yeah? If you're left handed, it might be like this. Now point to the past, right? Most people kind of, okay, fine. So what's interesting, when you look at the way that content is laid out visually for us, we tend to read from left to right. Left tends to be the past, so from this perspective, left is the past, right is the future. So you've got potential delivered. They're telling a story. You've got a lump of coal, which in the UK and possibly other places represents a lack of wealth, but there's also carbon, which goes on to create diamonds. And you've got a very white, stark background. So it's like, this is where you're at now, this potential point over here. You've got coal, there's potential, but nothing much is coming of it. We're gonna move you from that place of potential to a place where it's been delivered in the form of a diamond. We're gonna make you a heck of a lot of money, is what they're saying. Their legal teams, there's no way that you'd be allowed to say this because they can't justify it. They can't say with surety that that is what you're gonna get. And yet they're hacking your system, your subconscious, to give you that exact message in a really powerful, very immediate way just through the use of imagery. It's very smart. Okay, the other rule I want to go through now is the peak end rule. Does anyone know this one? It's a bit of a quirky one. Okay, so this is from behavioral economics. And the idea with this is that we tend to remember full experiences, not based on their average, which would be the rational logical way to sort of perceive it, but from the peak highs, so the best bits, and the peak lows, the worst bits, and also what happens at the very end. Now if you think about this online, on e-commerce sites, the worst bit usually happens at the end. You've gotta check out. Researchers found that when we're looking at how pain is activated in the brain, that the same regions of the brain that activate for physical pain when you've been hurt also light up and get activated when you're paying for something. So, and this is also why when you go to expensive restaurants, they'll often take away the euro or the dollar sign or the pound sign to make it feel less real. It's also why you get intermediate currencies in games like Clash of Clans and SimCity so that you have less of a way of feeling that pain and of assessing value. Anyway, what we tend to find on e-commerce websites, you get to the end of the funnel, you're a small selection of the people who started out on the site, you're about to convert, get to the landing page, or the checkout page, and you're having to pay. Your pain is activated and what you wanna do at this point is make it as easy as possible for your customers to make that transaction happen. And there are various ways that you can do this. Some peers of mine in the Netherlands conducted some really interesting research around TICS which we're gonna come back later. And they found that actually we get a much more positive response to when we get that kind of reinforcement. So perfect example here, get to the checkout page. Everything is chunked into sort of small discrete elements so it's really easy to complete. You get a TIC every time you do it right so you feel like they're taking care of you, they know that it's painful, they're actually giving you a helping hand. And then when you finally do go out and finish it, they say just bought your dream bathroom, now let's get it installed. So it's this sense of them taking care of you so they give you a peak end experience. There's also an interesting one that you can do that I found from a company. Do you know HubSpot? Anyone familiar with HubSpot? Marks and company, great. Okay, now I have several friends who have subscribed and unsubscribed several times just to get this video. This is to show you that when you're creating a positive peak end experience for your customers, it doesn't matter if they're gonna leave you. The point is to get a positive brand association so people feel good about working with you or feel good about you when they talk to their friends. Great example of a positive use of the peak end rule. Okay, I get it. You don't wanna hear from me anymore. That's fine. I wanted to make sure you had the best marketing information available. I mean, you clicked on the emails. You know, I saw. I know you clicked on them. I know what you clicked on. Okay, that sounds kinda creepy. I wasn't like cyber stocking. Like I wasn't checking out your Facebook page or anything like I was just forget that part. Just forget that part. It was a notification. I barely even, I didn't even look for it. It popped up. Oh, it's definitely over. I just blew it up. Remember when we had that webinar? Remember? You know, maybe if things were just a little, maybe we could, I could change. I could change. I don't have to. You don't need email. I mean, I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn a fair bit. I mean, we could be friends with benefits, right? Right, so judging by the giggling, that's quite friendly and it makes you feel good about hubs. But you think, oh, well, we unsubscribe. No hard feelings. It makes you feel good. So next time when you see them, you're not gonna think they sent me too much email and I was pissed off with them. You're gonna think, actually that was quite cute and charming, right? Okay, so let's move to the last principle that I want to cover in engaging the primal system. And this is the principle of scarcity. Now, we're gonna do another quick experiment. Say that I give, I'm gonna have to split you guys in half. I'm ever so sorry. You guys get the half empty, it's gonna be half empty, the half empty jar of cookies, okay? You guys over here, you get the massively full jar of cookies. Now, do you think from this section, do you guys think that you will enjoy the cookies more in the half empty jar? Hands up if you think yes. Okay, a few of you. Now, in the full jar option, hands up if you guys think that you will enjoy the cookies more in the full jar. Okay, so there's more of you. Does anyone want to say why they think that the emptier jar will get more deliciousness like ratings? Anyone want to yes? More scarce and more precious. We have a psychologist in the crowd, excellent, yes. And does anyone want to give you an answer from this side of the room, from the full jar section? Less stale, yes, okay, great. This is brilliant because this is usually what gets thrown out in this point. So, typically the people with the full jar will say, oh, they're fresher, there's more of them, they look like they're gonna be tastier. And the people in this side of the room might say, well, it's scarce, it's precious, other people got there first, so it must be good. And that's usually the kind of response you get, but when you actually try this and you get people to rate the cookies that they ate after the fact, people will always say that they would, on average, that they would pay more for the half-empty jar. And the principle that underlies that is the scarcity. So that which is scarce is valued more greatly. And you find this online too. Is anyone familiar with Ashika? A couple of people, okay, right. Your bank balances have been spared. So, Ashika is a website that do limited time sales on products that are fairly premium, but it's basically they're getting rid of stock. And so you come in maybe on a Wednesday, because that's when research shows that we're most likely to be bored at work and want to do some e-commerce. So come online Wednesday afternoon, you start having a little look, go all the way to the bottom of the page, and think, okay, well, there's some great stuff, I'm gonna come back here at the weekend when I have some time. So you come back at the weekend, and you start scrolling, and you'll find, oh, there's only a couple of items left. So you think, oh, I better quickly have a look and just see in case there's anything else, and the time is clicking, because there's only about five minutes left on the event, the sale event. And you scroll back up to the top, and you're thinking, shit, I've lost out on this precious thing that I wanted to get. And the thing that they're doing is using scarcity, both stock scarcity and temporal scarcity, time scarcity. And they've got an alarm clock at the top, which says sale closes in four days, 14 hours, or in this case, if you're at the weekend, three minutes. And then at the bottom, only two left. And this gives you the sense of urgency, the primal system kicks in, it's scarce, you want it so you buy something that you didn't really need. And this happens in all sorts of scenarios, including on eBay, where people come in and they go, zump you, and then you have to bid higher. Okay, so that's the primal system. Are we all okay with that so far? Okay, all right, so the second system I want to talk with you about is the emotional system. And this is related to the limbic system. It's ancient and automatic. It's where you find the small, almond-shaped passing brain called the amygdala, which is kind of maligned in public media for being sort of the seat of fear and anger. And when people get racially aggressive or whatever, this part of the brain lights up. But actually it's much more complex than that. And it also looks for cues for relevant information. So if you're hungry, might be burgers. And also for indications of trust cues in a face when we meet a stranger for the first time. In this section, you also find the thalamus, which is kind of the grand central station of emotional processing in the brain. And also the ventral tegmental area and the nucleus cumbens, which is where you find the dopamine, which is kind of the risk reward you raise to some of you wanting to just get to the good stuff. Fine, okay. So the way that you would use this online, key principles, the first I want to draw your attention to is empathy and the use of what's called mirror neurons. In the 1990s, Professor Rizalati and his colleagues at the University of Palmer did this really weird research where they placed electrodes in the ventral perimotor cortex of macaques to study hand and mouth movements and the motor neurons in the brain. What they found was when they left this poor monkey wired up to the EEG machine and they read its brain readings, when the researcher started eating himself, the brain waves of the monkey were quite similar to when the monkey was eating. So it was kind of watching the researcher and the brain waves were doing a very similar thing. They thought this is quite weird. And so they started to do some more research and basically figured out and named these specific neurons, mirror neurons, because they mirror other people's relevant actions, which is why things like this occur and how we learn very quickly. Guy on the left sticking out his tongue, monkey on the right sticks out tongue in response, mirror neurons we learn quickly through social cues. But what's interesting is that these mirror neurons that provide a building block for human interaction to help us understand and mind read other people's feelings and points of views. It's also why online we find these sorts of videos so compelling and I'm really sorry for the gentleman in the room. I shouldn't be so gleeful when I say it's all. And I could hear most of you wincing and some of you winced when it was the nut shots you hear the sound, you're like, oh, I know what's coming. This is not gonna be pleasant. Hands out all the ladies in the room, if you're a woman put your hand up, great. Now, did you actually wince when you, keep your hand up if you winced when you knew what was coming? All right, great, me too. I've seen this video many times and we winced. Now, we're not equipped in the same way that men are equipped, but we know because of our mirror neurons that that's got to really hurt. And so that creates empathy. So when I'm talking about these abstract concepts, hopefully you got to physically experience there a little bit about what it means to live that psychology. I'm not suggesting that you use these sorts of techniques of people hurting themselves on your clients' websites at all. There are much more subtle ways to trigger people's empathy to get the greater sense of emotional connection. And this is a great example. So I don't know, are you all familiar with Tom's Shoes? Most of us, okay. So Tom's Shoes, I think it's an American or Canadian company. They basically allow you to buy a pair of shoes and then they donate a pair to people in areas that need it most, so in developing countries, typically. And they also do other things, so they give the gift of sight and other such stuff. And what's nice about this is that when you buy into this company or when you purchase these shoes, you get to feel the real impact of your purchase. And they try and make this really concrete and tangible by giving you an impact map to show you that wherever you're buying your stuff from, these are the people in these locations that are benefiting from your purchase. So that's a great way to trigger empathy and get a bigger cause, get a connection to a bigger cause. And so if you want to use this sort of principle in your websites and in your marketing, this is a great place to start. So asking yourself, how does purchasing this particular product translate into a greater impact that's worth celebrating? And this is something that you also do very well at Drupal when you have strong communities. There's always a mission-driven element that underpins everything that you do. Okay, the next point I want to look at and the emotional system is around body language. So what can you tell me about the body language of the woman at the top here? Is it open, is it closed? Does anyone want to sort of chat a little bit about what that is? Anyone want to hazard a guess? I love you said that. Oh no, it's just a cough. All right, fine, you can be sure. So basically what's happening, she's quite open. Her body's sort of splayed towards, it's called blading in sort of, I guess body language terms. When you blade towards or away from people, when you're moving your torso, the idea is that we blade towards things that we like and away from things that we don't like. And you can test this in board meetings if you've got those handy swivel chairs and you're sitting there and you're quietly observing everyone else because you're bored. Make sure that you see how people's bodies start to blade towards or away from the person speaking. Also their feet, because they talk to lie with our faces but you can get a really good read as to whether someone is enjoying the interaction or disagreeing with the interaction. Same thing on first dates. So on websites, we look at these cues to figure out whether the person is trustworthy and if their hands are open. She's also using eye gaze, there's a cue, so she's looking towards the call to action so get anything you want, then there's an arrow and there's also lots of smiling. This is great, this is showing you exactly where you need to look. There's another point that I want to bring your attention to here if you're using visuals. Whenever you're matching verb language, so verbal cues with an image, you have to make sure that it matches up, that it's congruent. So here where it says, how to use your social media so it doesn't overwhelm your life and she's looking pretty overwhelmed. Straight away, your eyes see the image, she looks uncomfortable, you read the text and it makes sense, it's congruent. There's a lot of cases where people will use images that mismatch the language that's used and that's when you start to get these problems of, oh I don't really trust this site, it doesn't feel quite right. So be very careful in how you use that and approach your visual stuff. Okay, storytelling is another great way to engage the emotional system. Is anyone familiar with beta brand? Anyone wearing cords in the room? Corderoys? I'm not gonna, okay great. So I'll just preface this, if you are wearing corderoys and you're too shy to put your hand up, my dad is a physics teacher and he wears corderoys and I used to wear them at universities so this is nothing against cords but they're not the most sexy of trousers and so when you're trying to sell a not very sexy product to a new young market that's not gonna find these particularly interesting, what do you do? We have to start telling stories and so you go to the beta brand website and you'll see at the top if you start looking closely, it says evil eye-backed pockets. I have a friend who is a female tailor in London on Savile Road and she tells me that this is not a real thing, right? This is a bit weird, so you start scrolling down and then you'll see corderoys mesh evenly luring the average wearer's crotch heat index, the CHI reading, by up to 22%. And I'm in, did you know that you have a crotch heat index? You don't have a crotch heat, they made this shit up like just to get you to feel differently about their cords but it works, right? And if you actually go back to their website around holidays, you'll find that they have this amazing marketing campaign where they just make weird crazy stuff happen like one time I logged on and there was a camel in a fez. You're like, what's this got to do with your brand? Nothing, but it's funny and they create and cultivate this storytelling sort of tone of voice so that you want to go back and kind of like cub spot. It's a great way to get people engaged. Okay, finally in the emotional system, images of faces. Do any of you work with charities? Okay, so a few of us. Now what's really interesting with charities is that we've kind of seen a shift towards best practice of moving away from having stories of loads of people where we say there's hundreds of people who are suffering this particular cause or crisis, can you donate? We've moved away from that and we've moved towards this is Jessie and she lives in a village in Africa and she needs clean water. Can you please help her? So away from the many to the single story because research binds that it's much easier for us to empathize with one person instead of lots. But what you haven't yet found in most websites is moving people away from this sense of, oh my God, this is terrible to a sense of, oh actually, I can make a real difference, which is where this comes in. Charity Water is a fantastic website. They get clean water to places all over the world and what they've done in terms of their approach, they've since changed their website but what they've done in this particular instance is to focus on the benefits of helping these people of giving a donation and then the impact that has on their lives. And so they tell stories by using these beautiful, high-def images of this gorgeous woman smiling, the people in her community and by the time you read the bottom of the page it's kind of a headline and then some script and then you see the images. You feel so good about what's been done before that you want to contribute to because you can see the impact that it has and this is a great approach. Okay, so finally the third final system, the rational system. Put your hand up if you would like to believe that we are all rational. We're developers in here, most of us, so I'm guessing that, okay. All right, I do too. I like the idea that we're all rational. Sadly, it's not really the case. Some of us are better at analytical thinking and socratic questioning and so we give ourselves a bit of space every time we have an emotional response to kind of go hang on what's going on here but typically you find that all decisions that we make stem from an emotional trigger. Now there's some really interesting research that came out around this that looked at people who had damage in the emotional processing areas in the brain and they found that if they gave them a really basic option, so do you want tea or coffee, they could logically list all the reasons why you might want to have tea or coffee but when you gave them a choice, they couldn't actually choose and so when we're looking at giving people decisions to make, there has to be an emotional trigger in there somewhere no matter how rational the choice. So with that in mind, let's launch in. So the rational system is thought to be unique to humans. It's not, it's also you find it in citations and primates but they don't use the web so it's probably slightly defunct here. It's to do with your higher cognitive functions. It's where we're able to plan and organize and problem solve and it's the seat of social learning and innovation as well as language and abstract thought. So fine. So in an online context, given now that we know that emotional, that decisions are made from an emotional level, when you're giving people a rationale for their decisions, you're actually enabling post rationalization. So you're enabling them to think the decision that I made subconsciously at a primal and emotional level was a really good one because look at all this data. That's what we're talking about here. So a great way to give people this sense of having made a good decision is to use positive reinforcement. So to thank your customers. And you can do this by saying, thank you for signing up. You made a great decision. It's an email or webinar or whatever it is. And then you give them a freebie to reinforce that behavior. Say thank you very much. We value, here's something to say, thanks. This sort of principle of reciprocity. Another key principle here is product demonstration. Now I know a lot of people spend hours online looking at videos of unboxing with iPhones, take out his new one, look at all the bells and whistles. And so it shows that we're actually really interested in seeing how this stuff works before we buy it. But what's really fascinating is when you start playing with social dynamics to give examples of products being used. Great example here, Nasty Girl. It's a clothing e-commerce site. It's also a real shop in the US. And they target young women. And that's kind of their demographic, their clients. And what you'll find on their site is that they use images that their customers have submitted. So if I'm a lass and I've bought some nice pumps or whatever, I'll submit the image. It gets selected. It goes up on basically their Hall of Fame. And suddenly I become a celeb for this company. And so they're basically allowing girls to demonstrate their products and then share that with all of their friends to say, look, I got selected, isn't this great? And then you have the sense of social proof, which is the idea that if all my friends are doing it then I should be doing it too. So it gets kind of this wildfire effect through product demonstration. Very smart. And the platform behind that is Olapic in case you're interested in checking it out. And now one of my favorites. So specs and product benefits. This is a great way to help people to rationalize the decisions that they've made. I recently had to buy, which is last year now, a really nice camera. I had 1,500 pounds, which is great. You're gonna get a good range. So I called up my friend who's had a video at Wistia, which is like a hosting platform for videos. He said, this is my budget, what should I get? He goes, right, you need to get the Canon EOS 600D. Brilliant. Went on Amazon, bought it, job done. 1,500 pounds spent, three minutes. Great, sorted. Spent the rest of the day working, finished at six. Husband gets home, he's like, oh, what did you do today? Bought this amazing camera, I spent 1,500 pounds, isn't that great? Like, did you do your research? Well, yes, I called up my friend and he told me that this is what I should get. So I said, no, that's not research. He spent the next five hours from six o'clock at night until 11 o'clock in the evening, researching cameras. And eventually he comes up to you at the end of the night and he's like, oh, I found the one that you should have bought. I'm like, oh, go on then, which is it? It's like Canon 600 EOSD thing, blah. And it was the same one that I'd got. And I was like, you just wasted five hours of your life. But the point is that he felt that his process gave him a good decision. And it did. My process is much quicker and it gave me a good decision. Very different approaches resulting in a good decision that's made where both people are happy with what they've decided on. Now the point is here, when you're enabling people to make those high purchases, the high net, high value purchases or any kind of purchases, you need to be able to accommodate both of those ways of coming up with the decision. So people like me who kind of say, this looks about right, I'm gonna go for it. So for instance here, you've got basic information, looks about right, I'll go for it. And people like my husband who actually really want to do their research and can have a look at all of the specs. A great example here just because it allows people to decide what journey they want to have. So you're not giving people too much information but you'll make it easy for them to get whatever they want. Another example of a way in which you can list specifications is taken from a Drupal site here, it says Tesla site. And what's nice is that they make it very simple to start off so you're not overwhelmed with information. Then you scroll down, it's all on one page. You get to see beautiful imagery. And when you get down to the bottom, you'll see that they actually use a star system which we're very familiar with to give you a very quick and easy impression of having made a good choice for landing on the site. So this is another way that you can do that. Okay, I want to bring it back out to you then for this particular example. Which option do you think this site, it's too sweet for Twitter, is trying to get you to choose? Right, the middle, hands off everything, it's the middle one, everyone be okay, fine. Why, you've gotta answer me these ones. So why is it the middle one that's obvious? Yep, because it's bigger, excellent, what else? The color, yeah, it's bright and it stands out, it's highly saturated, orange, it's quite an arousing color. Yes, blue ribbon, so it's like, this is kind of almost a ward-like ribbon. Excellent, this is great, what else? The Goldilocks, just right in the middle, excellent. Yes, we have a preference for that which is in the middle when we don't know how to distinguish between categories. This also happens in stores, offline. Anyway, yes, excellent point, anyone else? There's other stuff going on, yes. Drop shadow, yes, excellent, so it feels like it's jumping out, yep, what else? Over that side of the room, anyone wanna shout out anything? No, any last sort of smart, excellent. Now this is the one that often gets missed, yes. The pro has a price to it, whereas the other ones are unknown. And so there's some ambiguity here, and we don't like that which is ambiguous. Is there anyone else who wants to jump in before I start deconstructing it for you? No, we good, all right. So, we've had several things, so it's in the middle, the colors there, you've got pro, you've got a ribbon on it, it looks like it's being shown in a way that stands out because there's a drop shadow, you've got the, okay, so let's start looking at some of the other stuff. If you look at the top, we just looked at ambiguity and how it has a price, you'll also see that it says registration only takes 60 seconds. I don't know about you, but nothing ever takes 60 seconds apart from a timer on a clock, that's it, everything else always takes at least half an hour, or maybe it's just me, but the point is here that there's no way that it takes that short amount of time, but because they're limiting your perceived threat, because they're giving you a number and you're kind of having less ambiguity, and they're saying it's really obvious this is how long it's gonna take you, you're much more likely to click through and start the process. It's the same thing in dates, if you're looking at kind of chatting someone up, this works for everyone, and your person, your target doesn't really look too comfortable. If you go up to them and you say, oh, I've got to rush, only got two minutes, but I really like your smile, blah, blah, blah, then whoever it is will feel less worried about you standing there indefinitely and boring the hell out of them, you'll get much better conversion rates. Dating, yay. Okay, anyway. Right, so the other thing that they've done, which is very, very naughty and quite cheeky, you'll see that this is what you get when you haven't actually signed up yet, and so the current plan, you don't have a current plan, but they've made the nought dollars a month free current plan, make you feel that you've already made that commitment because it says current, and then it says upgrade. So they're kind of giving you the impression that your intention is already locked in with this company, which is very smart, so that's consistency principle. I've started, so I'll continue with this consistent behavior. The other thing that's nice with the testimonials, I'll read this out because you're not gonna be able to see at the back. You've got one from the next web, so company that people trust, and you have another personal endorsement from Pete Cashmore, who's the CEO of Mashable. So you get both the personal recommendation and the corporate one. Another point going back to the ticks, the check marks, that they found them another way to be useful. When they tested something else to do with ticks, and they were looking at giving people the best benefits of using a product, and they tested the top rated five benefits and the bottom rated benefits, they found that nothing really changed in terms of conversion rates of the kinds of words that they used. They got a massive uplift, regardless of the words that they used, when they changed the bullet points into check marks, into ticks. So again, this idea of feeling like you're doing something that's positive, and now this has become ubiquitous and best practice across many product specs. Okay, this is their newest site. Do you think it has the same kind of visual impact? Hands up if you think yes. Hands up if you think no. All right, I think so too. Now I haven't got access to the analytics, so I don't know if it's increased or decreased conversions, but psychologically speaking, I'd say it's less powerful. Okay, we're on to the last two points and then we're gonna open for questions. So the final couple of things about engaging the rational system is being the authority in your field. So how can you convince your customers on websites that you're actually the best person for the job, but they can trust you? This is a great example. It gets very divided opinions. So Clinique is a brand of cosmetics for women, typically targeted at younger women, and you usually find when you have younger women in the room, they'll say, oh, I trust it because she's wearing a lab coat. It sounds like they know what they're doing. Clinique, it sounds kind of clinical. Older women, or sort of in my age bracket, I'm 32, so people like me who kind of had some time to think about what they're doing sees the woman in a lab coat, watches the video, realizes that there's no way she's a scientist in the way that she's talking about stuff, and you kind of go, oh shit, that's a bit scandalous. They're not actually giving me any real information. They're pulling the wall over my eyes. And so there's this kind of weird thing where you've got to be careful if you're using authority cues like a lab coat or a kind of, I don't know, those hat mortarboards, that you are consistent and you can back it up. Otherwise you build lack of trust. People will stop trusting you. So I have one final point. So giving evidence that your product or your service works. Now there are two examples here. The first is this. It's a not very expensive moisturizer that you can get freely in boots all across the UK and in different parts of the world. And what happened was that there was a program, a documentary series that basically took the most expensive and the cheapest creams for women like moisturizers and tested them over a six week trial. So third party testing, no endorsements anywhere. And they found that this one of the cheapest ones was the most effective reducing lines. So this documentary goes out one evening. The next day by 10 o'clock, everyone had sold out of it. Every single store, they were getting sold on eBay for like 50 quid. And they only cost about 11 pounds. So the point here is if you can get a third party endorsement because it actually works, you're gonna get a lot more coverage for whatever product you're trying to sell. There's one final example I want to give. And this is to get you to think about and I'd like you to think about what principles they're using and whether you think that it works, whether you are convinced that this is an effective advert that makes you feel good. Excuse me, is your toothpaste working? Yeah, of course. Time for a quick check. Bacteria? But I brushed this morning. Not with Colgate Total toothpaste. Bacteria are the cause of most common dental problems. Only Colgate Total is clinically proven to protect nonstop against all these eight problems. Try it and come back tomorrow. Let's see. Wow, where's all that bacteria? I'm impressed. New Colgate Total. No other toothpaste offers more complete protection for a healthier mouth. Colgate Total, the number one toothpaste brand used by dentists. Right, start flinging them up. What principles are they using here? There's a whole bunch of them. Who wants to go first? Go for it. The principle of bullshit. That was not me, that was him. You can blame him. Um, just, yes. Okay, so let's unpick the principle of bullshit. How are they bullshitting you? At the back, yes? You're gonna have to shout. It's clear that they're using actors, yeah? So it's clear that they're using actors and where they're expressing themselves come across as false. Yes, excellent, yeah. Right, the bacteria scan. When was the last time you went to the dentist and they got out their Harry Potter one and scanned your teeth for bacteria? Like, it just doesn't happen. What else? We had another hand up. The Star Trek scanner. And also it's quite gross. I mean, there is that disgust principle. Let's get some women speaking. Hands up, ladies. Come on, represent women. They use ticks. Yes, but, okay, crucial thing with the ticks there. Could you actually read what it was? No, it was too fast, right? So you tick, tick, tick, and it's just a bit too much. Any more women? Sorry, I've got to balance this out a little bit. Am I missing anybody? Oh. All right, fine. Come on then, boys. Show them how it's done. Yes? Used by dentists. Used by dentists, excellent. Authority, that kind of endorsement. Yes, what else? Smiles at the end, did you say? She's smiling at the end because she's happy. Yes, so that sense of emotional expression. Excellent, yes. Yeah, so they came back off to us and confirmed that it's clean. So before and after, making it very concrete. Excellent, what else? Yes, shame and embarrassment because she's not accepted because she's got all this bacteria and it's disgusting. They didn't change clothes between the two shots. Yes, okay, now we're getting into the really weird stuff. Okay, great. Does anyone else want to add in anything before I start to deconstruct it? Yes? Yes? Yes, right, yes. And we're going to come back to that. So it's in a normal environment in the street. This could be you. Someone else over here, yes? So this guy over here said that he's afraid that you're not going to buy this product because he's afraid that if he does he'll get someone coming up to him with a weird wand trying to stick it in his mouth. That sounded a lot ruder than in my head. Okay, what would you say? Okay, so number one brand, everyone uses it, Social Proof, excellent. Any more before we move into the, yep. Why is no one going to buy it because of the commercial? Why would you not buy it? It's nothing which I would believe, excellent. Okay, so what's really interesting here, thank you for that, what's really interesting here is that they're using a whole bunch of principles which you're all able to pick out, right? You can say this is what they're using here, this is what they're doing here. Now most of us, when you ask, this is for a UK audience, so it's GFK Survey, but it's ColgateTotal.co.uk, right? So this is for a UK audience. Now I don't know about you if you've ever been in London, that does not look anything like the London Tube. Number one, number two, there is no way in hell that anyone on the London Tube would ever stop for anybody even if they've got their leg fallen off at rush hour. You just don't, you're like, nope, I'm going home, carrying on, don't come near me. He's not wearing a dentist lab coat, he doesn't look like a lab guy, he's got the weird Harry Potter wand, you've got the weird sort of time thing which gives you a sense of urgency but she's wearing the same clothes. All of it kind of screams that it's been put together and it doesn't feel right, it feels like it's too much. And also the other thing from a color perspective, there's a lot of weird blogs on color psychology. I had to read a lot of research around color to write that bit in my book. The only thing that I found that was consistent across cultures in terms of color was for red and for blue. Red is highly arousing, it's visceral, we associate it with things like sex and violence and physicality. It's also a danger sign, right? If something's bleeding, there's danger, you could be dying. And so when you see red in association with toothpaste, you're kind of thinking, am I gonna just like lose teeth if I buy this? Not a good color, not a good color to use as the final page on your ad. Anyway, you did a great job, well done. So we're gonna move into the key takeaways and then we'll open up the floor for questions. So basically if you're gonna be persuasive, oh, we've got a question already. You want it, please? So let me just make sure that everyone hears that. So basically this chap, what's your name, love? Joe, so Joe has spent lots of time across different territories, Canada, and you said Asia, what's his name? And in Singapore, and he's seen the same kind of format for adverts across these three different territories that the cultures are presumably fairly different, right? And he's saying, are they using some reverse psychology presumably to make you realize that it's so bad that then you pay attention to it? There is an argument to be made for that and sometimes you have really crap commercials where you do remember it because it's just so appalling. I would say that this one, I don't think that was their intention because you're not likely to remember this, you know? You really not. If you see a really bad commercial that makes you laugh, you're much more likely to remember it. This one is nothing particularly salient. You'll just come away thinking, oh. And that's bad, like apathy is a bad sort of stimulus to kind of end up with your clients. Okay, key takeaways then. So if you wanna be persuasive online with your clients, with your marketing and engagement, you have to target each of those three systems. So your message and your content and your marketing should basically be arousing in the primal system. So that's things like motion, things like sex and food and symmetry and then the freeze, fight and flight whether people feel safe or whether they feel like the environment you're giving them is risky for them. The emotional system, whether it's emotionally effective, what kind of body language are you using? What words and emotional cues are you giving people in terms of the faces that you might describe or have on your site or the storytelling? And finally, how do you make it intellectually compelling so that you enable your customers to post-rationalize what they've already decided at a primal and emotional level? There's a whole list of references in the websites. You can download the slides if you want to sort of have a little look. So bit.ly forward slash Drupal 2015, it's all up there. And then if you want to check out my book, you can do so here, that's the Amazon site. If you want to tweet to me, you can tweet to me here. And I think now we shall have some questions if that's all right. Thank you very much for your fabulous participation. Should we move back to your hashtag on your... No, I have something I think we're good to go. Yeah, let's have a seat. Well, thank you for that, that was very fascinating. Some quick questions that came in over Twitter. First one, Roy Skolton, I hope that pronounces his name right. Thinking about community, what can we do to reinforce long-term sustainable engagement versus maybe short-term tricks? Okay, great question. So one of the issues that you find with any of this sort of persuasive stuff is ethics. And it should always come up in conversation because ethics are really important. I'm particularly interested in this, mainly because a lot of what you see and the way in which it's either persuasion on the one hand, which is good, which facilitates users to make good decisions for them that also serve your business versus manipulation, which is kind of more sort of win-lose, the business wins and the customer loses, is this idea of intention. If you have the intent for mutual benefit, so I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna benefit as a business, but so is my customer, then that's gonna be much better. But the problem with that, of course, is that it's very difficult to qualify and put checks and balances in place just for intentions. Everyone can have good intentions and they can fall by the wayside. So the kind of approach that I like to take is, are you enabling your customers to reach their own goals? That means that you have to do your research and ask your customers, is this where you wanted to get to? Or did you kind of want to get over here and we've just directed you down a different path? And I think the other is, are you coercing them into doing something that they really don't want? And that's when you get a high churn rate or people suddenly start unsubscribing quite a lot. Yeah, so that's kind of, those are the couple of key things I would say. In terms of community, I think one of the key things both on and offline is around values. What are the values that your business stands for, that your community stands for? And then how can you create a set of best practices that are very explicit as to how you're going to express those values? So I noticed earlier, you did a little call out about the Drupal values and how everyone should feel included. It's great that you have that. And then the question is, well, how do we make that actually happen? If this is a value, then we'll express it in these ways. So we'll call out behavior that's not happening. Happy for people or whatever it might be. So having a much more structured approach to what that is in terms of in real terms, does that make sense? That's a long answer, sorry. Yeah, what was the question? No. Oh, no. Did I answer the question? No, no, you didn't, absolutely. But you said, you mentioned community, so let's talk about community a little bit more. So how can we use these three systems, the primal, emotional, and rational systems, in the context of an open source community and volunteerism? Okay. So, you know, are you gonna? No, I was just gonna, I was gonna leave it open-ended, but for us, this is an open source, any open source community, you know, we are always looking to get more volunteers and to keep our current volunteers happy, to avoid burnout. Are there things that we can do other than, I mean, if we go to primal, we feed them and we show them funny videos, so we have that covered, I think. Good. But are there other things that we can do, other takeaways from this that we can apply to our own community? Yeah, so if you're talking about bringing new people in, like when I first started looking into Drupal and WordPress all those years ago, I was quite scared by Drupal because it looked complicated. And so you're gonna get people who are much more comfortable coding, who are perhaps more advanced coming in, and what you do about people who are interested, who might be great additional members to your community, but they're a bit scared. So I think in terms of the primal system, you wanna make sure that it's an inviting, safe environment for people. So the idea of the sprinters that you have for people who are just coming in is great. It's gonna be much more inviting and they're gonna feel safer. So I think that's one way to do it. Emotionally, I think you have a really interesting story as a community. You know, been going for 15 years and I was chatting with Dries earlier and sort of the progress that you kind of made from where you started to where you are now. It's extraordinary. So I think finding a way to tell that story across various different channels at these events is a really great way of showing people what kind of community they belong to and the shared history that you have. So that's another way that I would say it. It seems like for a technical community like ours, so many of our online resources are very left-brained and very rational. It sounds like you're suggesting that we should introduce content that's more on the right side of the brain, more storytelling and emotional. Yeah, I mean, it's all to do with context. I think, yeah, well, even people who are highly analytical need to feel like they belong. We all need to feel like we belong. And I think that it's important that everyone feels that they have a place within this larger story. And so, yes, I would absolutely agree that there has to be some context around the story, the narrative, and the values and the emotion that's there within the community because that's the thing that's so remarkable about this place. This room is mostly coders and you're very, very warm, you're very inviting. I had so many good conversations last night. So there is this warmth and this emotion. And so, yeah, I think it's a good thing to bring to the fore. And to convey that somehow online, not just... Because you're brimming with it. This is such a vibrant community. It needs to be expressed a bit more online, I think, maybe. Um... So, it's true. So this kind of related question came from Joseph Dabernig, hopefully again, pronounced his name correctly. How do we apply these techniques to such a diverse audience like the Drupal community? Right, we're talking online or offline? I would say let's start online. Let's start online. Online, yeah. So the first thing that I would always say is research your customers. If you have, like with any community, you're going to have people across various sort of, like, honest spectrum. So you've got the people who are the hardcore coders. You've got the people who are the project managers, so everyone fulfills these fantastic roles, but it has to work together. So you have to figure out how to segment people. So what's your natural position within the community and then what are the things that are going to be motivating for those people? So if you're a project manager, it might be, well, I need a process or a system that I can bring in that's gonna make my job easier to connect with people, to communicate. And then in terms of that, what communication styles are gonna be better for certain people as opposed to others? So for instance, I know that in IBM and in Google, there's a lot of fantastic work being done in their work spaces to make it much more appropriate for people with autism, because you get some fantastic people working who have very specific needs. And so how do you accommodate everyone's needs, communication styles, et cetera, so that they can feel like they're part of something where they belong? Yeah. So I'm kind of going off on time just a little bit. All right, let's go to another question from Peter Jones. What are your thoughts on learning styles and web design and does digital literacy exist or matter? Wow. Okay, learning styles and web design and literacy. Two things I think it's probably, well, three things that's worth noting. The first is around culture. The second is around gender. And the third is around literacy. So try and remind me if I go off on one. So culture, all of you here are from different countries around the world. So if I were to give, let's say there's like 15 countries in the room. And I gave you all the same website to use, and it was just translated for your native tongue. Okay, now all of you across those 15 groups would use that website in different ways, even though it's the same platform. So the usability of a site changes depending on the user. So the first thing to say is that culture is really important in terms of understanding how people relate. The second, there is some suggestion that gender plays a part. So researchers found in the UK and the US that boys as young as the age of seven exhibit much more researching behaviors online than girls, which is very interesting. Also in certain countries, do you have a lot more social media used by females than males? So again, communication styles. So if you know that in your research, then you can start to build that in. The third one was literacy. So literacy is interesting. You can do it by location, geographic location. So for instance, a great example, developing countries where a lot of people just missed out laptops completely and went straight from nothing to smartphones. So suddenly there's a very specific kind of literacy there that's tablet based versus generations. So different kinds of generations are having different literacy around what they are comfortable with and what they aren't, including specifically things like online payments, is this safe, et cetera. Yeah, so those are some of the key things that I think are an interesting place to start. All right, well, I think we're at 10 after, so we've got to get out of here and get everyone to get their coffee. So thank you very much for your time. Thanks for the grocery. And we're done here. So everyone have a good morning. All right, see you. Is that a different one? Is it a question all right? Is that? Is that a different question all right? I feel like I've already showed.