 in this field particularly that empathy in health care is very important but mainly handling technology is even more important. So that just goes as a saying that this is not working anyway. I'll advance it here. So it goes like a saying that empathy is just what the doctor has ordered and that's what is important from a health care perspective. What are we missing or what are we seeing more? We see a lot of machines over medicines and we see you can't see the screen okay sure that's fine okay yeah sure. So machines are taking over a lot I mean we have many examples that you see today. How many of you is Apple watch? Okay not many in the room good. So Apple watch has this habit of saying your heart beat is at 99 at 120 for no reason right you have you you are absolutely fine and the moment you see that alert the technology is so disturbing and it starts thinking that you are already sweating for some reason you have some issues. So this is where you know we don't empathize with people though we call Apple the one of the biggest design company in the world I mean they have they've attained maximum design in the world but if you look at how they are also missing on certain things these kind of messages especially in health care can tremendously kill the whole whole market right and people are really scared suddenly when the heart beat is high and suddenly some some messages are coming that you're you need to slow down you need to relax for a bit you need to sleep for five minutes I mean it's so crazy right and we moved it is definitely moved from where it was when it was reactive to absolute predictive and predictive is more of the medicines which we were looking at how negative health trends can like there are many startups and companies whom I know are also working in in US and UK are working on when could a person fall ill at what age and what are the types of problems that he would get over time based on DNA tests and based on his history and everything they will come up with these but again what could actually what could we do to proactively avoid those how can we take measures that we can who needs to be informed of that risk at what age and how do we address those proactively is the aspect that we look and also very personalized in these these apps and these again startups are looking at for one person individual there can be a lot of issues that is coming in through the DNA or through the you know history of his parents and grandparents and how those things can be addressed maybe he keeps abreast with his health fitness right from an early stage or he stops eating certain things or you know there are certain measures that that apps are giving him that's more personalized and again how to be prevented from happening is is a bigger challenge what action can they take for the negative episode that can be awarded so these are certain things where technology is really helping people but again how much of technology should we as a community of designers allow to take over that's the that's the topic mainly but how much how much should we worry about technology taking over and how much should we not let it take over again we have a lot of holistic transformations of lifestyle so we we think of pretty much machines taking over and holistically there is a there are many there are many hospitals like there's one company I've written notes I always forget names so Contra Costa is the company which in in Bay Area the Contra Costa is the hospital so they there are people there are patients waiting in the waiting room all the time so they have problems with them they have come to see the doctors but when they go back to those patients and ask them what is your problem surprisingly instead of saying you know I have a back pain I have some other problems that is why I'm here surprisingly 62% mentioned that they are having problems because of the access to food right whatever wherever they're eating today wherever their companies are providing food or whoever is wherever they're eating today the access to good quality food is a challenge so because of which there are people who are having problems again this is also related to maybe some physiotherapy issues where they're having back pains maybe the work environment is not right so there is company called health leads so they tied up with health leads and these these companies actually bring in a lot of fresh graduates and young from school and colleges they bring those people as volunteers and they they ask them to sit in those waiting rooms speak to them and also be a part of emergency non-emergency casualty everywhere so what the hospital is trying to do here is fixing a disease is one disease management is one how do we avoid that coming is where they're tying up with companies like these like health leads who will come in as as the vendors or helpers sitting out of those waiting areas trying to understand if food is a problem they will try and go back research the issues where they are seeing what the food is a problem why is it causing these diseases for such people and they go back and work with those food agencies to fix it and if it is a work environment issue they go back to the infrastructural teams try to make sure that they get whatever facility is required to support these patients yes it is very difficult to address those in Asian countries because of the size of wall or volume of people that we have but there there is already in effort how we can prevent these and how we can change a holistic life transformation so avoiding disease avoiding people getting those something is the latest trend that they're working on instead of just the disease management I'm highly spoken about this is also now in India that doctor patient dynamics has increased today you get an access to doctor today even some of them have them on WhatsApp in India as well but doctor patients have a lot of dynamics where you know CVS pharmacy in US came up with a minute doctor right minute clinic sorry minute clinic so this minute clinic is is it challenging aspect for the healthcare industry because most often access to doctor was a difficult aspect like three to four hours or maybe week you have to wait for 30 minutes attention of a doctor at anything other than it is emergency so other than emergency you really have to wait for a long time so with that CVS pharmacy made across the counter out of the pocket payment doctors where where they are available to prescribe for a general medicines level but whatever prescribed medicines non-prescribed medicines anyway 711 others have already brought it to on the counter you can get on the counter but anything to be prescribed CVS has a doctor counters open within a minute you will be able to access the doctor and you'll be able to and they're working seven seven days and absolutely 24 hours so that's a that's a great move which CVS made which is again disruptive so things like that will make a lot of doctor patient relations better and then it really improves how doctor patient dynamics can change and we've also done some analysis with Microsoft on on the similar aspect we have seen the trends like I think the previous session also they were talking about empathy with stakeholder empathy with users as well so with that aspect Microsoft we worked with hospital management systems where we see the hype cycle or the emotion cycle that goes across for people who use those systems right there are systems where doctors use the nurse use and the nurse stations use and admin use for billing and purposes but we see the emotions we went through assessing all of them through a survey and having focus group discussions there's some contextual inquiries that we did where we went to their environment and see how how they perform these things but when we see the cycles the system has so many data entry points and so much of work that Microsoft experts the hospital management team to do that they their hype cycle used to go we've done an emotional analysis which gives the emotion level in a day from morning 9 to evening 9 how the emotions go back and forth when there is a little bit of stress level the stress level goes some from yellow to green to blue so we have color coded how the how the you know emotions are it goes to high peak red most of the time and the when there's a lot of patients and a lot of people coming in and especially in curled hospitals it becomes impossible for them to manage so this is where stakeholder empathy was important and how much of information can we as designers deliver to them intelligently and how much can that process reduce the burden on the people so we use some you know brain mapping analysis and also we use some Toby for eye tracking devices to bring them on to usability testing labs and see how these emotions move up and down and why and why how can we help if any questions you can ask me in between I don't know if you'll have time for the questions the last sure no if it is for a hospital we take permissions from the hospital and the hospital team to allow certain users and they are also agreeing and signing up with us that they will they will they will give the feedback they will allow us to take the feedback so this is a very confined signed agreed kind of you use a test it is not going to be in general public for sure yes general public we can't I agree yes right sure I think for emergency, the video call is not an option, first of all. So anything on hypertension or other things, I mean you would clearly draw the scenarios. The whole product is made for certain customer journeys. The journey is depicted that within the 15 seconds of a call that gets on, what happens in that? How would you go about assessing the situations and how would the doctor talk to them, what about the connectivity, what about the power connects, all of those aspects should be considered. But in any case, these tools and apps are not for emergency for sure. But they would have some breathing time to reach the hospital in any case or at least get an ambulance or at least get a doctor's consent if the person is still alive to take him to the hospital. So maybe that level of tension would definitely be there as a overall customer journey. But scenarios are very important, personas are important and when you really test these things, those scenarios have to be, we play role model, the role plays. Yeah, yes, it was different because in the surgeon, I have met a surgeon who said that I am busy from morning nine till the evening seven o'clock, he goes very fast, very late and all the days he is receiving a complaint of the patient. So when you are doing a usability testing, he is not in the same kind of state of mind. Right. So how are you going to create that scenario because if you just call them and have a communication testing, but there is much more focus, he can think and he can do. But in that scenario, he is unable to do and you cannot put the things you are doing. That's absolutely. See there is on-premise and off-premise tests, like off-premise is get them to the lab to actually see the functionalities, if the flow is fine, if they are agreeing to that is off-premise. So when you do on-premise, you actually in between the timing of like you said the stress level, maximum stress level is when the test should be allowed. And that is a sign up with the hospitals to do those tests. I mean if we don't do that, there is no way this application can go on, right? No, it will become, see this is a commitment from the hospital management and the corporate will allow them to do so. So the doctors have to abide and give us 30 minutes to test that. So there is no way that the doctor will say no at evening 5 to 5.30, at the peak hour we want to test at the same time. So he has agreed for it and he has to do that. And we could even set up a window between 5 to 7, we will call you any time, right? This is going to be your life. You are signing into a video calling system where you will be paid for and you will have to take the calls at any situations. That's what he's signing off. It comes top-down, yes. You don't go requesting doctors, they will never allow it. It has to come from top-down and it has to be an application that they are building and the doctor is signing up for something like this. If he's not comfortable, he's the one who's going to use it in future. He has to also make sure from his point of view that he's getting the right connectivity, he's getting the right attention required and he's getting the right visibility of the patient. And he's able to do something with it. By just knowing that there is something happening, there is some problem with the patient, there's no point, you know, just knowing, right? He has to act on it. So either by the time he's talking an ambulance should be triggered to the nearest place, everything should be ready by his talking, by the time he's talking. There's an action also required, good. So again, this is more integrated patient units, like how we are seeing today. Many hospitals are moving in from just one point, like we have a five-star cardiac surgeon. Please come to this hospital. We have like five rating, the rating is super high, he's made, he's the best guy to see for orthopedic and so on. Instead of that model, the hospitals are moving into a touch point model and a holistic approach. All practices have to be integrated together. Like if a person is going in with a breathing problem and he bet the cardiology to start with, that guy understood a lot of case about this guy and he cannot just refer him to a lung surgeon and get off it. So he has to be part of it. He's the first touch point and it's important for him to take through the journey of this patient continuously with the hospital. So if he refers to the lung surgeon, perfectly fine, but he's supposed to monitor this case until this is either admitted or it's exited. So that's how the integrated practice units have come into play, where the rating systems and measurement systems of hospitals are all moving in from an individual doctor branding perspective to a holistic hospital brand perspective. The hospitals are happy to do this because they get brand visibility by doing this, but not the doctor himself. If the doctor moves, the patient also moves to the other brands. Again, we spoke about machines and humans. So this is again how much of AI gets into human. AI is being too much like we know chat boards, like this typical scenario what you're talking about. If in an emergency, how many people want to talk to a chat board? It can act fast. It can probably give you solutions and all of it. It can trigger an ambulance. It can do a lot of better things than a human being, but absolutely at an emergency time without even one IVR or a voice coming in, they want directly a person to pick up. So it's very important for any systems to make sure that there are humans in places where it is required. So this balance is very important where we clearly understand how much of the technology should be allowed from any apps or anything that we do, designing even hospital management systems or the apps that is outside or the fitness apps everywhere there is a human required. Without analyzing a person's BMI, there is no way nutrition can just be a chatbot that is suggesting the diet for a person. It's impossible. So there has to be a lot of human intervention in the beginning. Maybe to manage the course that is proposed by a dietician can go on on a robotic mode, but definitely this balance is something it's the onus is on us as all designers that we have to make sure that we do not allow technology to overtake beyond the point. Again, a little bit again on cybernetics, this is more of technology and human being we've been talking about, but cybernetics is a concept of how much of technology is allowed per the compliances. If you're doing something on healthcare or it can be aviation industries or any designs that we're doing, there is a lot of standards and compliances to be followed. So with that, how much of technology can be allowed and how much of humanization can be taken care with purely on cybernetics. So immersive experiences for all is something that we have also been working with many customers on this. Immersive is a concept. It's more of a using five senses of a human being. How can we immerse person into something? For retail, we have done those boxes that uses that you get into the box, your five senses are triggered within the box. There is a radiation or a LED and stuff that takes care of the heat and how the system would work. For example, if you want to feel like you're in an Amazon forest, the VR will take you to the Amazon forest. The sound will make sure that you are in a forest environment. And the sunlight based on how you are seeing the picture on your eyes is how your body gets heated up. And you can also smell the gump. And if the elephant is getting closer to you, you can smell the elephant, smell closer to you. This is also used in retail where you get into a perfumery shop. You can smell like 700 perfumes and buy online. This is more online, offline, physical and digital. The true digital mix where we can bring in the concept of digital into this. So this is mainly being used in healthcare. The best part of this technology is they are curing traumas. Like if you have a height phobia or if you have any other traumas that you want to cure. Immersive technologies are really helping to treat people better, to get off their fears by not really going into the realistic fears, but actually simulating the fears. For example, G is trying to do something on the trauma cure using immersive technologies. So there are two, three aspects. Immersive is not just the box that I said, it is using five senses. And using tricks to play to cure traumas with using technology. So anybody with a height phobia can actually walk through an edge of a large building and they have created a physical environment which has the, I'm sure you would have played those games in one of those 5D, 4D thing. It's similarly in hospitals there is a recreation of those where you can make the patients walk through that. And they're very scared, it's not like normal people. They're very scared to even do one step. So over the time they reduce or increase the heights based on the visualization that is available for them and they make them get used to it. So this is not really taking them to the top and doing it, but actually using the technology in doing it. And many other examples on immersive for others where children can't get into MRIs, right? While any scanning has to happen, this children will never get it. It's claustrophobic, it's scary. But they've done, the whole MRI was redesigned to look like a Batman cave. So then they started venturing. They were given plastic guns to start holding on to them. That's their tools to go with. And then they have to stay there quite for five minutes to get the Batman attention. Something there, it's a trick way to simulate and get the purpose done again. So this is again, we call in our languages. This was part of Howard thing also where it says the jobs to be done. As long as you know what is that one particular job to be done, then you're very clear about the solution. Simple examples which Clayton Kristen always says in Howard is, there's a purpose of buying a drilling machine is always to drill a hole. As long as you know the drilling the hole is the purpose, that is the only one job to be done. Even if you give him 15 other functionalities on the drilling machine, he doesn't care for him. The purpose of the job to be done is just the drilling one, right? So it's very important for us to balance between technology, human being, expectations and empathy and all of our stakeholders, business revenues, all of it comes. So which is why I've written a book on that called The Great Balancing Act. And I'm launching this here today at 4.30. So I would request all of you to be there. Question? Sure, we can talk. These experiences that we had in the commercial world or any of the time, it is good for, they are two aspects of human being. Yes. So is it the logic that I mean body and all these things that are happening? Sure. What about the psychological aspect? How there are been, in terms of human rights, in terms of technology? So in terms of psychology, are you talking about, I mean, fear is a psychological issue. Like the trauma that I was talking about, the height fear is a psychological issue. I'm trying to think of some examples that can help you understand more on psychological mode. So again, in depressions, there are different levels, right? The first level, second and third is that they're ready to kill themselves. So first level is they're very good outside, they're still fine. So the first and second level can be treated by making sure, see, this requires, again, the technology is one aspect. There is a lot of research that requires and personalization. So this requires his lifestyle, we need to understand how has he grown up, what has all troubled him. So how can we bring in some, what was the tool? I forgot a tool that you can have a friend companion, right? There is a robotic friend that you can make. There is an app, one of the startup, one of my friend has done it. So he's developed an app that is called, I'm not getting the name, I'll give the name. It's an imaginary friend whom you talk to and it gives you responses. It's an AI based imaginary friend. It gives you responses the way you like it. It slowly assesses you as a person and understands your psychological issues, what you respond to how, and as a person also, he's not talking to the real person. He knows very well that you're talking to the robot. But that way he's willing to be a little more open than a normal person. All his shyness will come out of it. So that way you're able to avoid the depression moments by giving him what he wants. And if he dislikes something, the robot will make sure he will criticize that to the extent he feels happy. So end goal is to make him happy. It doesn't matter how he criticizes what. Sure, I think with the interest of time, probably we can take it offline. Any other last question? Sure, they can't hear you. I was just asking about the application you talked about that we are assessing the person's habit or the state of mind. So what is the initial point? I mean the person who knows or the patient or that he's already suffering. Then we are assessing it or it's just natural. It's just natural. You're trying to build friends because today a lot of virtual friends are helping, there's no real friends. So that way virtually they're trying to just play around. But the AI is trying to assess you if you're normal. If there is any issues that you are constantly on a very dark mood and you always, if people are posting a lot of agony based pictures on their Facebook and Instagrams is one of the starting triggers. Where they are looking at life with more in a depression mode. So these AI based tools can actually help starting assessing them playfully. And then get this, we've done some applications even for the US market where for differently able children, we are building Disney like characters which are in virtual reality. So they are actually taught through their education happens on the virtual reality. They also make friends with those characters and those characters become a part of their life. So they start trying to, how much of attention, attention issue can be one. So how much of attention can we rebuild for the child? Because it's just playing a game. So for the child, it's playing a game. But as a purpose, it's trying to build up more attention. So you bring it back with the character, you bring it back to the same thing that he was doing and so on. Yeah, yeah, I'm only trying to make it positive. Black Mirror puts it very negative. So Black Mirror says all this will kill you. But yes, the only people who have control is on designers, yeah. I would say only designers have this control. We have to be the gatekeeper to not let technology touch humans beyond a point. All right, thank you for your attention. Thank you so much. All right, thank you. Thank you.