 It's 5pm, I think that we can start, so welcome to this webinar, this add-and-up webinar named Teaching Online Competencies, Debate in a Post-Confinement Scenario. I am Francesca Menduni, a newly elected member of the add-and-up ceiling committee. Before we start with the topic with the two speakers, I would like to introduce you to the NAP, the activities of the NAP briefly, then I will tell you something more about the speakers and then we will leave the floor to the speakers. In the between the first presentation and the second presentation, in order to engage you, we will start to answer questions that we will receive and at the end we will try to answer to all your questions. Of course the speakers, we will involve in answering your questions by using the chat. So I'm asking if we can start presenting the add-and-up PowerPoint. I will ask to the technical if they can show the presentation. Perfect. Okay, so I am Francesca Menduni and I am a member of the add-and-up ceiling committee. If you don't know what is the NAP, a NAP is the Network of Academics and Professionals. The aim of the NAP are supporting networking of individual members of the association, providing a highly effective meeting and communication forum and is coordinating by its own ceiling committee elected by a ballot of NAP members. The NAP provide information for members and opportunity for professional actions, help members to build up a personal portfolio, including documents, resources, blogs and so on, promote communication, networking and increase the coherence of Eden as learning community and help in finding partners within membership. This is the newly elected NAP Steering Committee with Orna Farrell, Francesca Menduni, Igor Balaban, Ines Giorgiana, Mohamed Samir and Vlad Mieshu. If you want to be involved in the Eden NAP, this is the link where you can create your profile, your e-portfolio online and create a network with your peers and professionals. There are many different benefits to be involved, such as belonging to the largest community and open distance learning in Europe, access to the Eden database. You can delegate up to 30 individuals in the NAP from your institutions. You can attend a conference at a reduced fees. You can establish a partnership and exploring projects and you have free access to electronic versions of Eden conferences, proceedings and many other advantages. I wish to invite you to the Eden 2020 annual conference that this year will be virtual and will be organized by University of Timisuara. I wanted to tell you that the call for paper is open throughout May, so you have time to present your paper, your abstract poster or workshop or so on. Thank you and now I want to leave the floor to the first presenter. Alfredo Soiero is an Eden Executive Committee member and Eden's senior fellow. He is also Academic Director and Vice President of Civil Engineering at University of Porto. He is also Prorector of University of Porto. He is founder of different European Association Network in the field of education, such as the European University Continuing Education Network, Network of Continuing Education in Latin America and in Europe, and Association of the Portuguese University for Continuing Education. He is President of different associations, including the International Association of Continuing Engineering Education, Alpec and Safety. So we have a big important speaker today. So I want to leave the floor to him and let's start. Thank you Francesca. Grazie. I don't have any responsibility now in terms of administration and cost. No, I'm just a teacher and researcher, but it's true that I occupy those. Thank you, but thank you for the CV. Very, very good. I welcome everyone. I want to talk a little bit about, I only have 10 slides, so I hope I can meet the time a lot. And the reason why I propose this topic is that there is this big change in the life of everyone, as you know, and the reason to discuss this teaching online competence is it's not new. It existed before because, for instance, I'm not a teacher online. I do courses and attend courses and have participated in a lot of research on this topic. But I see that everyone now, let me advance the slide. People are now performing online without proper training. That's one issue. The other issue is that to be a teacher online, it's not enough to place materials on the web or use Zoom and use the digital tools of communication that are available. And like I said, this question existed before the pandemic. Who can teach online? What is the terms of reference for the competences necessary to teach online? We will have Professor Woofellers talking about that after me. But this topic that I'm presenting is the proposal that have been placed to the Executive Committee already. We are discussing that in the Executive Committee of Eden. What are the necessary competences to teach online? And this is based on a study from Calo V. The guidelines and reference points for the design and delivery of degree programs in teacher education. What competences should teachers have? It was adapted from this publication to the context of teaching online. So it's just a proposal and it's based on another proposal that you can consult for teachers in general. We're going to discuss this. There is a proposal. This slide misses there the proposal. The workshop in the next Eden conference that was mentioned to you is just a proposal. And we will discuss this topic also in the conference. So that's a reason to attend the conference. So what is this reference framework with the descriptors for the competences necessary to teach online? It's connected with the European qualification framework level six, the first cycle. And the descriptors are grouped in three perspectives. The knowledge necessary. And it's generally what we talk about competences. Mostly people discuss knowledge, but it's also necessary to have certain skills to apply the knowledge. And also you have to have the right attitude. People can have knowledge and skills, but do not have the autonomy and responsibility to fulfill the necessary competence. So those are the three dimensions or perspectives of the European qualification framework. And these terms of reference or framework is precisely grouped into these three perspectives. So let's talk about dimension one. Teachers online probably need to have competences in terms of knowledge skills and autonomy or attitudes. I prefer to call it attitudes in terms of knowledge management creation. Of course, this is what I think you should take a look. And if you don't have these competences, probably you should take some courses, some training to be able to fulfill these required terms of reference. I'm not going to take a look. This is a proposal. Take a look at each one. We are here to present the proposal and have opinions from you and from anybody that wants to discuss this. But it's important that we have terms of reference, a framework. Another dimension is the question of the competences necessary for learning, teaching and assessment, which are the main components of a teacher. And these have to be adapted to the online context. How do you manage the digital content to enhance your learning in terms of teaching? And how much do you know about the assessment process online? You have to acquire these competences. You have to have the skills to apply it. And you have to have attitudes, correct attitudes, the capacity and commitment to transmit that to your courses and to your actions. Now, the third dimension is how do you concentrate on the learners, on the students, let's say, or on the trainees? You have to foster their development. This is when we talk about student-centered activities, teaching, learning and assessment. These are the competences that probably are necessary to have this student and learner environment. How do you work with your students and your learners so you can give them potential and creativity? How do you have these competences you don't have? You may have a part. I don't think that anyone cannot have all these competences 100%. But at least you need a certain comfortable amount of competences within these competences to be able to teach online. Now, the fourth dimension is the role of the teacher in terms of society, in terms of values, of ethics and social engagement. You have to be able to participate in your courses and in your teaching with the right competences. For instance, the commitment to build a sense of social responsibility for the learners in terms of personal, professional and contextual levels. These are competences in this dimension that teachers should have. I would say that this framework in terms of reference is not exhaustive. But I think it has the six main dimensions that I think we think that when we propose this and we are discussing it are necessary. Out of the six, I would say for the success of teaching online, I think I would say that this one is probably the most relevant one. It's very difficult to communicate with learners and you have to have competences. What are the critical elements for communicating at online? How do you do it? How do you manage a community? How do you get involvement from a community of learners? How do you get them to participate in the learning activities? You have to be able to have these online interactions to work in teams and groups to use the correct social media to have this communication. Let me tell you that during these two months I became an online teacher for my students. It was really a learning experience for me to communicate with them. I have had some successes, but in fact, there are other aspects that we cannot solve with online teaching, but there are others that work much better, but we can talk about that later. But anyway, these are the competences that are proposed in terms of communication. And lastly, the characteristic of the people that are in education. I've been involved in continuing education for 30 years now, about 30 years. I called that period the start of my involvement in life on learning. And this is the characteristic of people that are involved in education and teaching and learning. You have to be a lifelong learner. And the professionals that are involved in online have even more responsibility to develop these competences. You have to know the new sources, the tools, the effectiveness of these tools. You have to be critical about the technology. A lot of people are fascinated with technology, but if they are not effective in terms of learning, they are useless. They are just circuits. And you have to be critical about all these developments, and you have to keep developing your own competences in terms of lifelong learning. And that's about it. I have this final message. This is not definitive reference, so your contribution is welcome. And I would like to thank you in the name of future learners that could benefit from a proper reference to capacitate and to credit those that are currently working online. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Alfredo. And so we will wait for some questions before to go to Ulf. I have a question for you. Since now teachers cannot go out to have professional training, do you have any online courses to suggest to develop teaching skills, especially online teaching skills? Thank you. There are plenty of courses online. For instance, there are several MOOCs in the OpenEDUP platform, for instance, that you can consult, but there are many. And if anyone asks Eden, I think Eden has a lot of resources to help those that want to learn more about teaching online. That won't be a problem. But let me tell you something. There was a course from a colleague of mine from Georgia Tech about teaching online. And it was, I don't know, two years ago or three years ago. And it was a free course about the pedagogy of teaching online. And there were more than 300,000 registered people. They had to cancel the course because it was impossible to handle 300,000 people in the course. If you have interest, there is a lot of opportunities. And it's just a question of trying to find reliable courses about it. Thank you. And we have another question. So do digital tools really contribute in improving single subjects, and in particular the linguistic ones? I think any subject can be handled online. It just needs the proper contest, the proper pedagogy or a dragogy. But it just needs to be prepared quickly. I personally am, I can say that because it's a free tool. So I'm not making publicity. But I use Duolingo a lot. I want to learn German. And Wolf is probably smiling, I guess. But it's not an easy, I tried it when I was young. And it's not an easy language. All these declinations and everything. So I use Duolingo and I can say that I progressed. So personally, I learned a little bit of German online. When I was doing it face to face, when I was young, I didn't do as well. So that took my, there are programs and tools and platforms that are very effective for teaching online specific subjects. Yes. Yes. I agree with Duolingo. I had good experiences as well. So I think that we can go on with the second speaker. And I want to give a short presentation about him as well. He's Wolf Daniel Hellers. He's food professor for educational management and lifelong learning at Baden-Wulff State University in Germany. He has been vice president for quality and academic affairs at the same university for the past six years. Wolf is an educational scientist and the old degree in English language, social sciences and educational sciences. He took his PhD in the field of technology and answered learning in 2003. Wolf is an internationally recognized researcher and innovator in the area of educational technology. He has developed the learner's quality model for the learning, which is a basis for learner-centered quality development in learning. He's working as advisor to governments and non-governmental organizations in the field of learning and development cooperation and is member of several advisory boards and editorial committees. So I give the floor to Wolf. Yeah. Thank you very much Francesca. I hope that everybody can hear me. I was very happy actually when I had the chance to present in this particular situation and I was thinking that it is a very, very good situation to stop for a while and to think about what has happened in the past 10 weeks. In my university, I am having the role of being the advisor for digital transformation and we are a presence university, a presidential university, a normal university and for the past years, also when I still had been a vice president of the university, I have always tried to convince people of going online and of the benefits of the flexibility of higher education, studies through online teaching and it was always hard to convince not only teachers but also students and now since 10 weeks, we are doing nothing else than going online, teaching online and from one day to the other, we have to switch our 35,000 students to become online students and not only our 35,000 students but also our 780 professors which are working on the nine compoos of the university and more than 6,000 part-time lectures which we are having and this is a major experiment actually it is a real, real major experience and I am sure that you all have the same situation in your own institutions, in your own countries and I want to talk a little bit about the experience which we are having and it's just a snapshot actually a snapshot reflection of where we are today and it is really about the experiment of shifting higher education in its entirety, entirely online I think that what we can see is that technology is not unimportant and it never has been unimportant it's becoming clear that for the success of online learning technology is still what I like to call a hygienic factor that means that if we improve the infrastructure if we have the capability to switch on more technology more Zoom platforms, more Adobe Connect platforms still we will have more technology but it will not automatically lead to a greater satisfaction so it is important and we are talking about in a little bit of reflex discussion we have been talking about in the first 1, 2, 3 weeks a lot about technology everybody said where is the technology which we can use to teach online and that was the biggest problem really but today we notice that we have other challenges to solve that technology is not solving the problem that it is necessary but not solving the problem we are rather seeing that we have to overcome what I call the synchronous reflex so everybody wants to teach life everybody wants to teach life classes like we do now actually and I think that it is important in our discussions in our own institutions back home to start thinking how we can overcome this situation of course it's true we can teach life we can teach in a synchronous way in a virtual classroom our students 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours one course after the other but we will quickly realize that the real power of online learning is not in the synchronous mode of teaching and that the life moments which we can create probably are not ideally suited to transfer knowledge but rather to see our students to view them, to share moments together to create a reference frame of a presential atmosphere with them to induce a feeling of we care for each other and we are expressing this we are asking mutually where are you right now actually in your learning journal we are not using these life sessions any longer and we maybe should not use so many life moments life virtual classroom teaching moments to lecture the students but rather to engage them into a dialogue about their current learning journey and then create online learning experiences in which they are engaging with resources with other students in group interaction and where then they come back and share and feed back other students which are presenting their learning outcomes so and this is the moment in my view where real real online teaching competencies are needed because from my experience for my colleagues who are professors in a normal presential university this is the real challenge to create this artistic network of activities online which are not synchronous but which are synchronous moments and speaking about that I think it is important to more and more notice now where we know that corona situation probably will stay for some more weeks, months maybe one more year I don't know how it will turn out in the end but now is the moment to notice that for online learning this is not a deficit online learning is not proposing a deficit model we are often hearing the words the terminology and our colleague Don Olcott has written about that just recently last week in a linked in blog post that this term remote is often carrying a deficitary mindset we are talking about remote social distance teaching and we think about it in a way that we are asking ourselves when can we stop this, when can we overcome it but more and more of my colleagues in my own university notice that there is also a value proposition behind online learning that online learning has the power that online learning has an opportunity to create more individualized learning pathways to create flexible learning in a much better way than we sometimes can do that in presential situations and that this value proposition is something where people are now in week 10 start to talk about how can we maybe carry over some of these values value proposition of these opportunities also into the past corona time so the proposal is to go beyond the deficit mindset here we are starting now to experiment with something which is this you know holy grail factor of higher education which is assessment assessment is what our institutions are actually making unique institutions we are the only ones who can assess teaching can be found everywhere in MOOCs open online courses in the internet you can find materials you can find courses but if you want to have a certification there's only one way and that is to go to a university and to be assessed for a certain field a certain area of knowledge and in European higher education we use a lot of what Mark Brown in a recent article called pump pump dump model so our students are in a way taking in the knowledge in lectures and then dumping it back on the assessment sheet on the test sheet on the final exam sheet and the situation we are having now is that we cannot perform tests and assessments in the same way like we did before and so we can think about to start changing our pedagogy and the pedagogy is the real professional part and when we enter a virtual classroom when we enter an online learning scenario we immediately notice that it takes a real professional online pedagogy and experience to create moments of interaction between the students and more so it takes professionalism in online pedagogy and experience to create moments in which we are assessing our students in a continuous way for example portfolio assessments in my university now everywhere allowed where before we were allowing only written tests in many, many situations so this is challenging for online lecturers for my colleagues, for professors and again we need teaching competencies I hope that we take the chance and spill over some of this innovative teaching which comes from these new ways of thinking about assessment also after the corona times collaboration is key and we know that of course and I think what we know today and what I can really from my heart share with you is we have never been such experienced such moments of solidarity in our excuse me my phone is ringing we have never experienced such moments of solidarity between our colleagues we have never moved so closely together sometimes we are meeting with colleagues, with groups of colleagues two times a week in stand-up meetings where we just talk about our experiences sometimes and that's such a beautiful experience right now which I think we should really try to keep and one of the real great ideas of one of my colleagues was this what I called here the espresso bar online meeting on Tuesdays at four o'clock which we are doing now every three weeks actually we are having a virtual espresso bar meeting and everybody is bringing their espresso and a piece of chocolate cake or whatever they like and we are meeting we are just exchanging without agenda and that's really beautiful so let's try to keep this kind of practices so to carry over the solidarity moments which as professors we don't have so often I think we can admit that actually we need OER currently more than ever and OER I entitle this like OER works now in a more reflective mood I would probably say OER is in demand now maybe it doesn't work now but it's in demand more and more and we are having here just as a side note I'm not going to spend time on that we have just started three months ago a European project called Open Game and this is a project in which we are developing an online game for teachers to learn which competencies they need to use OER in a classroom and it's not just about the competencies to search for OER or to create OER it's also competencies about engaging students in meaningful OER interactions teaching with OER and we are also using this knowledge skills and attitudes model of course for the competencies which we are creating yeah I'm coming to my last point listen to the students voice students are now at home studying from their own often the place where they grew up in their parents' house and we are talking a lot about that and we have now started a podcast actually it's in German but we will next week start to internationalize it in which we are interviewing students in five minutes to ten minutes a radio show like a podcast about their situation and what they feel are good strategies of universities to engage them into learning and what doesn't work really and this has turned out to be so valuable to listen to students to understand what their situation is when they sit in front of their computer and are trying to make sense of their studies now at home and online so these are just eight points of reflection of where we are today and I hope that some of the points which I made are points which you can connect to and I'm happy to talk a little bit about it and I'm also using the final welcome farewell slide of Alfredo and say to you thank you in the name of the learners thank you so much for the nice presentation we had a lot of interesting questions I think the first one is for Ursch because someone says that love the idea of leaving behind the deficit mindset however someone asked what do you mean by the term deficit mindset so maybe you can explain better this concept yeah it's actually quite simple when we started in corona confinement asking ourselves what on earth can we now do to continue our universities we were finding us in the first moment of awkwardness because we were thinking oh I think we think we can only go online and that's going to become really really difficult and it's going to be a real nightmare for students and now that's the deficit mindset and now we more and more see and more and more of my colleagues understand that actually online learning has a real value proposition to bring to the table of higher education we can engage students in a beautiful way and it's not a deficit model it's really a valuable model of teaching and I hope that we can carry over this digital transformation wave where it makes sense also to the time after corona that's what I mean with that thank you for the explanation I read another question for both I think don't we think that we all should establish an integrated distance education system and an OER network nation specific based on OER architecture for future integration so that the relevant course can be thought by all online I can read again the question don't we think that we all should establish an integrated distance education system nation specific and an OER network nation specific based on OER architecture for future integration just if I may go first I think that is a valuable proposition I think yes I have been spending like 12-15 years on this idea of integrating OER better into higher education in different ways and I think we need both we need more efforts on a national maybe also a European level to create networks of OER and the Scandinavian countries are really an example there they have a palm Scandinavian infrastructure for learning materials open learning materials and we can learn from that but also on an institutional level we need more efforts to create cultures of sharing if we cannot convince our colleagues, professors to use lecture materials of other colleagues we will never succeed we have the most beautiful national infrastructure and this is actually what we do we work on both levels we work on the national and the European level and also we work on with Eden also and with the NEP also on the institutional level I think both is needed there Thank you I have a question that I think that is for both of you what is the best way to gain these competences from webinars, online courses badges, certificates or is experience really the only way to gain these competences so I think that it refers to teacher competences yeah I can go first and then Ruth can complete but I think that all of them all of them are learning experiences I think that for instance if you look at the proposal for the competence framework if you see that you have a deficit or you want to learn more about one of the competences you may look for courses that are providing those learning outcomes those competences you can also look for projects that are available on the web the European Commission has made a tremendous effort with projects with lots of outcomes in terms of competences for teaching online and online learning one that I remember about teaching it's one that I participated where there was an evaluation of all the most significant tools for communication for teaching, for video producing there was a rating and there was also instructions on how to use each one of those tools and that is available that is for free, it's a project modern, you can google it but like that one are dozens if not hundreds of course projects from the commission with that objective but I guess basically this question is that if you want to learn a certain type of competence of teaching online you can search whatever exists and you'll find it, I'm sure thank you I can also add to that that of course if there is a possibility ask somebody who is having experience with this and in your own institution most of us who are in this webinar today are in some kind of institutional setting and you are working with colleagues, you have colleagues and some of them are more advanced, some of them are less advanced and I can really really recommend the most successful thing that we did in week two and week three was just to open an Adobe connect room every day from one to two and make a schedule and ask colleagues who have experience just to talk about their experience for one hour over lunch, that's it and we did that for two weeks and it was incredible every day we had more than 60 participants coming to this kind of sharing moments so to speak and I think this is really the fastest track to get inspiration of what we can do and then of course there are all kinds of other support services and all that what Alfredo said also I just want to remind that we have presented NAP in Eden which is more than 1000, I don't know the numbers but it has a lot of professionals so join the NAP and exchange with the others like Ulf was saying, we have to talk we have to know from each other it's a time of change, big changes and the way to handle it is to talk to others and with your peers and the future figures of our community Steve Wheeler for example he was just sitting down and recording five sessions which you can freely download and view on how to improve as an online educator or Mark Brown from the Dublin City University they were doing a MOOC on how to become an online educator or the ICDE, the International Council of Distance Education they were doing sessions on how to become a better online educator or the Eden community is doing the COVID-19 webinar series every, I don't know, three weeks in which the next one is taking place, I don't know every Monday every Monday sorry, every Monday evening at five we are talking about these issues so there are lots lots, lots of possibilities to inform yourself and get inspiration Yes exactly, there are many opportunities and we need to have also self-regulating skills and autonomy-driven learning skills to decide which learning paths are better for us, so transversal skills for teachers we are receiving lots of interesting questions also from other non-European country and I want to read one from US in the US there are several states that have established an online teacher training certification that is mandatory for press service teachers to take in order to receive their teaching license do you know whether there is a similar certification in Europe I don't know that in Germany we do not have that but what we have is on a national level the attempt to establish a network, it is already established but it's not mandatory, it is voluntary in which you can register and you can display your digital teaching competencies there you can display them, you can talk about it you can assess them there and you can so to speak join a network of expert colleagues to join the group to share the experience I know also that this is existing in Ireland but I don't know how it is in other countries but for sure these kind even if not mandatory for sure I'm a firm believer that this kind of resources should be available to every teacher so that at least on a voluntary basis they can qualify themselves thank you yes please I'm supervising each student on the regulation of distance learning and in Europe there is no regulation at all the answer to that American colleague is that there is no country that requires a specific certificate for online teaching and the teachers are in many countries because teaching online is considered like teaching if you want to be a teacher online you just have to be a teacher that's what it as far as I know that's what happens in thank you and I want to read also a question from youtube because people are watching us also from youtube what about teaching technical laboratories that need experiments to be run this is a very interesting question especially for teachers that come from STEM topics engineers so I'm aware of several initiatives and associations and conferences on virtual laboratories so that exists for some years already they do amazing things with I'm sorry Wolf but they are remote they are called remote laboratories but they do experiences like in a physical laboratory and that exists I can give the because there are conferences world conferences about it there are several associations dedicated just to virtual laboratory and experiments so that that exists it's just a question of sharing the information about it thank you and I want to read another question one second at this one could we catch this corona situation to assess digital competencies with the disciplines using the DigiComp model I don't know if Wolf wants to talk about it the DigiComp model is the model on the European level for digital competencies I'm not sure now if an operationalized version of a reference framework exists which can be used to assess teaching competencies when we started our open game project which I talked about the open game project for OER teaching competencies we were researching the Open the DigiComp model we were finding that it is containing all the dimensions but that it is not so easy operationalizable to assess somebody I think that we still need to make some efforts to become better in presenting models like the one Alfredo was actually presenting today in which teaching competencies are really operationalized spelled out in a clear way and also show a pathway not just to tell you you are an expert or you are an OV but also to show a pathway what do you need to do now in the next step in our European project open game what we do is we define competencies which teachers need and then we have gathered 28 cases in which these competencies can be are becoming visible and we are presenting that to teachers so they have a reference case for each of these competencies several reference cases and we are convinced that this helps really so the answer is I think there is no some assessment framework are based on digital competency framework but that we have other frameworks which are either developing now or like the one Alfredo presented are already developed thank you I think that we have time for at least two other questions so I wanted to read this one how can one catch up without messing up and without giving students an unpleasant experience from which they might not recover my suggestion is try to learn from the others from the mistakes of the others and let's say one of the things that I think is very important is to communicate with students what Wolf mentioned about the portfolio is very interesting with the portfolio you can have an indirect way of communicating with students and verify if they are comfortable with what you are proposing in terms of your course online and what happens but the point is that with the new digital tools you can communicate with each one of them very effective if you want if you don't want but you can communicate and you have ways of verifying if the experience is unpleasant or not but first start by learning with the others what are good practices, what works what does it work and then keep on communicating with your own students that would be my suggestion and I think one really important very simple and first thing we should all do is we should use technology to connect to our students connect to our students this morning I was talking to a colleague here in my university a professor and we were talking about online social presence so how to create the feeling of a social presence online although we are not together still having the feeling we are together like we now actually are you know and he was saying a very simple thing which I really like he said I am asking my students how they are, how they feel what they need I am asking them I am starting my session by asking them how are you, what do you need how do you feel it progresses now and he says it's not that everybody is then starting to talk but some are starting to talk and immediately we begin of not shouting into a dark room but of entering into a situation of a dialogue actually that's benefiting everybody let me tell you also one advice very simple to avoid unpleasant experiences try to show each student they are not the number but they are a person if you do that I am sure that you will not have unpleasant thank you I hope that we have time for our very last question and I want to tell all the participants that we will try to answer all the questions online by putting your question on the website so the last question is this sorry I lost it do you think that a deficit mindset could affect the quality and the productivity of the virtual education well yes I think that if we are firmly convinced that online learning is just a second rate learning it will stay or will become a second rate learning actually so yes I challenge you all be convinced that online learning has a clear beautiful value proposition of flexible learning of being a form of learning with high interaction high individualization of learning which makes it very valuable very very impressive to people sometimes and very effective if you think about online learning in such positive way I think we can take many many valuable experiences out of this times of corona crisis into a better moment for higher education after the corona crisis and if I can add something you you cannot just replicate what happens face to face to online it's not possible so you have to deconstruct your approach to face to face and build a new one to online teaching and you probably have better results than face to face that's my conviction for some years now and with the new technologies it's even more possible than before but you have to forget the face to face model because it's a big mistake to try to replicate you cannot do it online you cannot replicate the face to face you have to find a new one I think that online education teach us also something about how to do it better of online education I think this is my idea about it so thank you so much to the presenters we received a lot of questions a lot of interesting reflections in the chat and the Indian secretary told us that we have a little bit time more to answer other questions so maybe we can have 10 minutes more to answer to the questions if the speakers agree they agree, ok perfect so I will go on now with the questions ok considering that not all the academic communities dominate the digital competences do you think that the academic level will decrease worldwide? it depends it depends on the way you teach online personally I think it can increase the level it depends on the approach the pedagogy and the andragogy you use but for instance one of the examples I have is virtual meetings I don't know about your experience but my virtual meetings for all associations, different groups etc they run much better online than pasted they take at least one third of the time or half of the time and this of course is not reflected to what happens to teaching and learning but it is a tool that for instance may be used to to improve the learning one of the aspects that you can use with online teaching are the simulation scenarios virtual realities and augmented realities and immersive realities you cannot do that face to face but you can do it online and learning with simulation at least in certain areas it is probably more effective than on a real scenario on a laboratory or something so that is my impression but of course if you teaching without the necessary competences or approaches or the institutional strategy that it is appropriate the level may decrease in the learning of course but it all depends as the leaders for instance Wolf is one of them if you have the proper persons in the right positions to decide for instance the strategy it is probably a good good result if you don't have then you may have bad results thank you and I have another question what do you think about students alienating from interactions in person with professors using online education so I think that the problem is about alienation of students during online teaching what do you think about it yeah we are experiencing that a lot that this you know everybody knows this feeling of professors who are not used to online teaching they are logging into their virtual life room and then they are seeing there are 50 students or how many ever that may be and now to start teaching and not have this feeling of connection is a terrible feeling actually and we are as teachers we are feeling what are they doing you know we haven't switched on their cameras we don't know if they are there they are not talking to us you know how in a normal classroom we at least seeing them sitting there you know even if we don't know if they are following us but we have this you know this fiction this illusion of they are with us in one room and that's why it's good and in an online setting we don't have this and we perceive that as alienation maybe I don't know so the task is that you start to think about how can you engage them and there are lots of possibilities to engage them online my advice for this is actually do it in a live session start thinking about asynchronous online teaching just a very very simple a very simple method which I learned at the university of Maryland university college I was there for two years an online professor was a very simple method just use online forum and ask your students to post their answers for the week into this forum and then ask other students to post a feedback on this answers in the forum and suddenly you have 50 students who are posting their answers and if you assign every student to post two feedbacks every student is getting receiving two feedbacks from other colleagues other colleagues students and that's an interaction which is enormous because suddenly you have 150 posts there it's rolling and rolling and rolling and such a dense interaction about the topic you can never replicate in a presidential classroom for example and suddenly if you start doing that you see and there are other methods you see that alienation is not a topic anymore because people are starting to share and still again I mean it's not working from day one you need to socialize your students into this kind of work into this mode of learning and so on but there are many many methods which you really can use to engage your students I would suggest if you have just if you have live sessions what Wolf is suggesting I think it's very relevant to have these surveys like Slido and others or monkey survey or something where you get answers and opinions from students and get on and debate so like I said you have to deconstruct what is face to face and start other approaches that are more suitable for online teaching so if you have alienation probably because you're just talking I always remember a photograph of a teacher giving a recorded lesson on auditoring it couldn't be there it couldn't be recorded session and the picture was I don't know instead of the students there were recorders on the on the seats because they were not there either they were just recording with the professor so you see you have to find the right approach to avoid these kind of problems thank you so much for this last photo and so we are going to close our webinar the video recording would be available for the participants on the EDEN website and also slide from presenters and please remember about our EDEN annual conference virtual conference and we hope to see you again in the next EDEN app webinars and also in the webinar pandemic series that we have every Monday at 5pm thank you so much hope to see you thank you to the presenters bye bye bye bye everyone