 All right, hopefully it's working well Good day everybody if it's Wednesday or Thursday where I am currently then it's Warhammer I'm in Australia right now, and I'm here with the one and only mr. Coach the AOS coach get I might There it is there it is So now we're both on the same screen, but also joining me in addition still normal back in the US is Tom What's up Tom? All right, so let's make sure we can all hear Tom. Hopefully it looks like it's coming through, right? I'm looking at it on the screen right now, and that looks about correct The boxes aren't exactly perfect, but it's fine So yeah, we're coming through All right, cool. There you go. All right. Martin says hi. So somebody is here good All right, and we're not upside down just fun fact Don't want to be even straight Sure It was it well wasn't adjustment when the plane came in and then they had to like completely 180 to land properly to stick to the ground Yeah, that's why they ask you to strap in your seat belts. Absolutely. Otherwise, you just fall right out Yeah, make sure the windows open as well So if you guys don't if you guys crash at least they can see the bodies and they know that's the idiot right didn't Put your seat belt on there you go. Exactly. Oh somebody said we can't hear Tom Okay, there you go. Tom is pretty hard to hear on the stream and Vince Okay, everybody. Well, you're gonna have to put up with me messing with settings then for a second while I fix this I'll see what's wrong Turn yourself up and see if that helps You're up all the way Okay Tell me if you can hear Tom better. Okay. All right, there we go. People say yes, they can hear him Okay, just make sure you're nice and loud Tom turn your cat your gain ups that way people can hear you All right, cool. Good. Yeah, now we can all watch me play with the OBS for a minute on screen. Well, that's happening. All right So anyway See secret this tech happening right now guys any aspiring streamers gets to see how the magic happens Okay Tom sounds like a pilot talking through the intercom on a plane Okay Well, I can try to see what I can do here Fine Okay Well, we'll roll with it and I'll see what happens if it persists give me a shout here. Let's do this Well, so is that's what we have I mean I'm a yeti pro what now It shouldn't be a microphone problem, so I don't know what's happening Yes, and so am I and we'll see but we'll keep playing with it You can hear him fine like you have some okay All right. Well Well, we'll we'll see what we can do Here I'll scoot this way There you go just get Tom to scoot a little bit closer to my mic exactly at Tom scoot it you lean toward this side of your screen That's where his Mike is Over here. There you go It's fine. Just stay close to your Mike and we'll we'll be we'll be fine Okay, all these plan does zinch always always plan This is always in the plan that and that is what we're discussing today. It's time to talk zinch Like I'm sorry everybody if the sound is a little wonky But you know here we are this is this is what we've got so I don't know what to tell you So let's uh, you know, okay We're doing it in Australia on the road and this Anthony's been nice enough to let me use his setup to join us here We're gonna talk zinch later today. We'll get through that but first Tom. We've got some news And there's some big news today, so what do we got man? Oh, yeah, it's a it's a big day. It's a big news day Who knows? You've sounded completely normal to me the whole time Okay, big news. We had some leaks drop, right? We did We did have some big big leaks drop. Yes, correct There were some shipping containers that just dropped out today and Not the shipping themselves, but the packing thing or my jobbers and let's see what we have One point towards worst cruel cards for Sarah on So we finally have our confirmation on the lizard man salon Sarah font release Anthony Are you excited about this? I'm excited that one of the oldest books in sigma is finally getting an update Oh, they're the irony could be it's just cards. You might just get cards You get you get your old but tell you about a book about right you get cards for your new battle tone Well done. Exactly. It's just no note. No. No Tom is released. It's just literally Stuff and then like a couple of months later. You get new rules, right? Yeah, just deal with that lizards It's a good cast. Yeah Have some cards though Yes, and what should be noted here is the reason we see this stuff is because this is some of the few things that are produced Overseas so they get these international bills of lading or whatever for the shipping and that ends up becoming public record for the supply chain and So that doesn't mean anything like we could still see a bunch of Sarah font Models right because those all get produced in the UK. Yeah, so it doesn't mean that you're just getting cards It could be a range of things but Exciting I wonder what it's gonna look like. Well, notably here's what I will say It's notably that there were big boxes on the manifest right, which could mean a another like some kind of terrain piece or Something like that or endless spell boxes. We don't know what those are because those weren't labeled They were just boxes of three different boxes of Warhammer stuff, right? right So those and those wouldn't be the like versus box sets because again, those would be produced in the UK That's not like look Sarah font stuff is exciting. Okay, like cool. I'm glad all those lizard people will finally get the new stuff I hope they get some new models. That'll be cool They're the last army still there. They're the last army dangling out there. They need some love They need some love base lizards need some love and my hope is that it's more like a gitz book where you can use your dinosaurs You can do your sorrows you do your skinks and you can mix it around. That's right. That's right And it should be noted here with these with the lizard folk Okay, that And they can now finally stop being the first one to post on Facebook Every time something is revealed for a new army because first post every time something's revealed on Facebook is When is my Sarah pod? Okay. Now you know My favorite was always with somebody be like, yeah, well now that we've updated all the two point over And why the first post definitely is always So does that mean our legions in a gash and our Nurgle players are now taking up that mantle? Yes, correct It'll be the legions players mainly. They'll be the ones when are we getting it'll be the soul-blight people asking for winter vampires Yeah, referencing vampire coast like that Yep, that's gonna happen. So so so soul-blight and vampire players I I expect you to bear this standard. Well, you are now in charge of going on Facebook and Asking when you're getting your stuff make make skill sense great again I think he's gonna visit was the better they're gonna run towards exactly exactly. Yes, but the Seraphon have it But that is not the big news Oh, yes By that name yes, there is boom That's right. My favorite battalion. They have ever printed in five years of age of Sigmar Maybe the greatest battalion in history just five giants the sons of behemoth And Behemoth in the lore there is some lore call out for him He's like this ancient Titan being that said to be the progenitor of all of the The Gargants that are in the realms right So And there you go There you go. We're getting our giant army folks. It's happening. I we're calling it right here This is real the Giants are happening. This is not an April Fool's joke. No, they're not setting. They're not setting this up This is legit. This is legit. We're getting I'm officially calling it right here. The giant army is happening The real question that we have is like what what is it now? Like is it a new box? Like are we getting another kid or sit literally just the the garden kid that you have to buy and build like 12 different ways Well, like the little beast man had a different giant like a chaos with head been like the dreadlock guy I don't know I Don't know either, but let's okay time to ring a ding ding. Let's predict a thing. So Anthony yes, what is your prediction? What do we get out of the giant release? Is this hopes of these predictions? Yes, so do both right my hope so I'm a big halfling fan and then and Recently there's been a whole lot of awesome hobby. I've seen using the blood bowl halfling kit I would love to see a combo Gargant and halfling Very og old world kind of feel. What do I think is gonna come? At minimum, I think maybe a dual-kit hero. Maybe a hero kit. Yes So while this kid is really versatile and can create a couple of gargants, they probably know hero yet So like a wizard a wizard and maybe a warrior type Hero oh a giant wizard. So like it's a combo kit, right? Yes For a wizard, maybe like a like it almost like a troll had kind of stuff or something And because that's always been the challenge, right? Yes How do you create a leader gargant and that was why you could never do this as a an Allegiance type army right because you didn't really have any heroes. No, yeah within the gargant keyword, right? Right, right. Yes. Yes Oh My god, that's such a good idea. I hadn't thought about the dual the prep the potential of the wizard All right, my hope My hope full build out which is three new giant-based kits Okay, wow That's my this is hope. I'm gonna swing for the fences on this One would be sort of the replacement bruiser giant for the Forge World one I don't even know if it's still really around. You know the bone grinder or whatever That's the siege breaker or whatever. No the bone grinder. They're really really big. Yeah, not the chaos Yeah, because you're right. There's two there is two Forge World Giants And so like this is like the replacement of bone grinders. This is your bruiser. This is your true Monster giant because look what what are Giants right now 170 that right 160 170? Yeah something like that They're pretty cheap. They're not really like a monster on the level of what? Monsters are honestly. Here's let's talk about this way if we were to frame this as per You know Imperial Knights in 40k Regular Giants have basically scaled down to the size of like the armature of warplanes to the little the little knights, right? So we need the replacement. We need the actual like, you know The real knight. Yeah, the the Dominus class or something like that Where it is a four hundred point five hundred point monster that earns its its keep right because it You can't an army of like single hundred and sixty point dudes. That's not gonna cut the mustard, right? So then that's kit one is just like your giant giant giant Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes complete sense. Okay uh number two is I'm stealing your wizard hero. I think that's that's a beautiful idea So I want to see it actually I would love this army to have maybe like a priestly take on it though So maybe the dual kit that I would love to see is a wizard or a priest You know what I'm saying like a single kit that is both wizard and priest and Then the third one is your leader box set That's like your true leader. We go generic warrior hero slash named hero Alright, we'll see cuz maybe Tom just was on the wrong audio All right, well, we'll see if that's any better All right, Tom talk for a moment and give your hopes and predictions We're just messing with it folks trying to make it work better while we're sitting here I I don't know what to hope honestly I want to I want them to throw boulders Yeah, that's what I hope. Yes. Yes rock throwing. I want them to throw really big rocks And do a lot of damage That's what I want So it's like the Saigour and the Gorgon kind of got one combatty one It reminds me actually of the old I was talking to Vince about this earlier about the old dogs of war Yes, dual gargant kit where you used to have the Giants of Albion where you'd have one with this big giant rock above its head It would throw yep, and then the other one with a big club was a stick or a club and yep But then we'll visit them kind of run around with it. Yes, you know somebody had raised a question in the chat I think it's a wonderful question, which is this truly our first gold faction Where it could go either Chaos or destruction, right? I Could handle that I could definitely handle that it makes sense Like there are cast giants there are destruction Giants. They've been in both Yeah, this could be the first gold faction. We've been calling it for four years. Maybe this time we're right Is it a fast stretch to have it as an order giant as well? I don't know what I Happen I would love it. I mean we're talking a golden faction. Surely we can't go 50% look Orders a big tent party. These guys do breathe they They like or they probably well, I don't know if they hate chaos That's the problem because the requirements to be in order are breathe like buildings hate chaos If you satisfy all three of those boxes you get to be in order I Think we are getting new kids. Let me say that like I at least one new kid, you know, I know some people may You know like the negatives about it and suggest that we don't but like so we have this we have this image, right? Yep, like that is definitely one that like that speaks to our car down And then right now in the what's that chat for this group that is already formed dude It was four months ago and I joined it day one. I was in Well, you're looking somebody asked in the chat What is the lizards news the lizards news is that we got finally got confirmation that the War scroll cards for seraphon shipped out of out of China Which means that we're getting a seraphon battle tome incoming at some point relatively soon Oh sure Yeah, cuz the edges of that looked photoshop look photoshopped Yeah Well, it isn't that angle that's actually the angle like the angle It's out on screen is the real angle for it because see the little threadies up under the skull Yeah, it's dangling down. Yeah, they always make that stuff hang with gravity Although if that was a little bit weird that the spikes are just sitting above a base Could be it's one leg as long as you select one real Like could be like in middle of stomping or something. Yeah Yeah, but this could be like half of a hammerhead as well. Mmm. Mmm. Sure sure down at that angle where he's holding it like this Yeah, sure I'm excited. I am excited I was not gonna spend much money after After the camcon because I've got the America trip at Midwest meltdown Yep, but if this gets released and gets kind of announced pretty soon I'm gonna have to apologize to my wife in advance and say that I already own the models or it was practically free Exactly, I don't find a reason please in the chat. Tell me how do I get this to my around my wife and allow me to spend? What this is gonna mean for me is I've got like depending on when it comes that means I just need to hustle up Fortunately, I'm almost done with Golden Demon. I've only got a little bit more to do there Then I don't have a lot of other competition stuff But like trying to balance already between working on my slaves to darkness and doing the tempest I army It's already too much So one of those projects has got to get done which means it's got to be buckled down and work on something if I'm gonna If I'm gonna bring Giants in the mix and I'm gonna bring Giants in the mix like giant army Yes, please. That's happening and ghost muttons asked and they only still count as one model for objectives Surely they're gonna bring in the beast claw rate of rules that one gargantt is equivalent to far greater than one You know what I it would make sense if they just imported the large and charge wool So like Giants were regular Giants for five and the new monster monster Giants for ten or something I would be fine with it. That'd be super cool at the same time I like that ogres are kind of the thing that has that right So I Would be okay with it even if they didn't it would make the army far less competitive Yeah, but they could have other tricks and in the end. I don't really care like look elite armies are already on the back foot Naos I ain't collecting a giant army because I'm looking to hit the competitive scene and top table Trump is five and oh, yeah con that's that is not why you make a giant army You make a giant army for love of the game because you want to do some sweet Giants That's why you make a giant So I have to ask the question Will the drunken stupor ability be an allegiance ability? Oh God Just fix it. Please just fix it. That's all I'm asking. Yeah. Yeah you've got to keep the funness of falling over and killing people but Not to the degrees that are currently used especially as a full army. It's it's because it's unplayable right now as a single model It's fun. You can laugh at that when your whole army is doing it. Yeah, you're in for a bad time Exactly, you couldn't have that drunken stupor rule across an army because it would literally just be unplayable Because if you made like three charges, you're actually incredibly statistically likely makes it. Let's say you had three three inch charges with your giants You know normal statistics says you're gonna nail all three of those you have a one and 36 chance to fail them Assuming no bonuses or re-rolls, right? That's that's what that is about a little bit more than one and 36 times three But like the statistics you fail one of those with the drunken stagga rule is almost 50% That's that is way too high 33 inch charges. Maybe that's what the hero brings to the table is you ignore that rule Oh, I keep some in line. Maybe yeah, it keeps them less drunk or I you know what I would be okay with that I'd also be okay. If like It's any double Sure if you had a hero Well, let me say this yes, but that's a that's a heck of a lot of CP's now if there was like if the leader had one of those things We normally hate that was like spend a command point and then anybody within holy within X inches of him can just re-roll charges It would actually be really good in this army Just make it big like he's got a 24 inch radius around him of that and yeah, okay Yeah, yeah, you still want to keep it in other armies, but when you're in the Gog and Allegiance then You ignore it within radiuses or command points or some Ability. Yeah Like it just makes sense that he if this guy put together an army of giants One would hope that like he actually has them working somewhat as a force and that literally You know a third of his army isn't falling over drunk every every turn that seems problematic Um, I would also accept I would also accept hold on an Allegiance table That is the different types of alcohol they could have To different effects. How about that now we're cooking with butter Are they getting dry and like literally it's just you get to assign a type of alcohol to every giant Some make a more angry and run faster Some make like there's a wizard alcohol that it makes wizards and priests pray better There's one that like make some tougher because they don't feel any pain like various Alcohols brood from around the world of the mortal realms all the crazy effects that would have Please tell me somebody thought of this same thing Yes, yes Like this is the craft beer movement, but for Giants as an allegiance ability So we put that with the pizza oven terrain paste does that mean we're gonna have a brew house or a big keg? Yes, yes, we got the more pot tap it got the pizza oven now. We've got the beer keg. Yes Just tap the bottle and twist the cap. That's what I'm saying. So That would be amazing like I cannot explain how awesome that would be as an allegiance ability I hope whoever wrote this book thought of that. That's all I'm saying if not you miss out Maybe an FAQ update to a patch. Yes, we forgot to add brews brews of the realms exactly This would be fantastic, okay All right, so that's Giants I couldn't be more excited like and then obviously we don't the other big piece of news is about 30 ish hours from now. Is that right a little bit less 4 p.m. Where we are tomorrow Midnight Eastern, that's the important part tomorrow The preview show from LBO goes live wherein we know we're gonna get a lot more reveals about the pointy elves I Suspect we're gonna get a rock-and-roll video with tech lists just like we did for more athlete Vince I think that I'm coming through either your speakers or something else. I just listened to the audio on YouTube It's the worst Alright, so, um, I don't know what's causing it. Okay. All right Okay, okay Okay, okay Okay And you can't hear Tom, right? That's right. Okay, you can just ask me a question. All right sounds good. All right now Tom talk Let's see if it's better We'll see okay Anthony can't hear you anymore, but that's okay. Well, we'll all be translating We'll make it work. I mean who knows dude I'm always ready to blame you Tell us out there somebody post in the comments of Tom and if people can steal your Tom That's the question Like I said, I can hear you fine. Okay. So say something Tom. This is where you talk Tom He can't be heard at all. Yeah, that's fine. You stay there Tom. Don't move you keep talking Okay Yeah, I know. Okay. Now you can hear Tom. All right, we're gonna play with that for a second Everybody can watch as I click stuff That's correct. All right. Are you talk? Yeah, you keep talking. I'm gonna play with it I keep keep talking Tom so I can see what's happening Tom. Go ahead and talk Okay All right Now we'll see if people can hear Tom. I don't know. We'll find out in a second It says it's picking you up now It did it did but it was probably picking you up through the speakers So we'll see still nothing. All right How did you switch this? Let's go back to All right, so now Very funny people. I mean hi, I'm here. Okay, let's have it sounded. Yes All right. How about now? Nope still nothing. Okay. It says Well, look man, it's hard because I've heard you to find the whole time There you go somebody said yes, it's working Okay There you go. We can hear Tom again back to how it was before the mute. They said it's good You can hear him. All right, let's call that that's as good as we're gonna get it. I suspect so we're gonna Go with that. We're gonna go with that Okay, you're back Tom Okay, that's fine. Yes, I got I ended up in front of the microphone. I'm fine Yeah, it's all good. So you don't need to see my face All right, so There we go gentlemen now that we're now that we've done this Thank you everybody for your patience. I apologize Unusual setups and all and it's always tough because it's uh, it's like I've heard Tom normally the whole time So it sounded like and oh we are said he was or be a city picking up It's it's clearly the upside down. It is we're in the upside down. That's all right Okay Yeah, no, you're fine can you yours? Cool. All right. Woof any other news Tom boy, that's a long news segment. I Think that's all the big stuff. We're excited for LBO for tomorrow. There's lots of events obviously with LBO and we can come this week yet And so it'll be exciting to see what what's gonna turn out from that Um, yeah, he's pack her up this week as well Well back up. It's LBO Yeah, LBO and can gone are the two big ones this weekend. Yep. That's fine So LBO is gonna give us the bigger wheels and of course we're gonna be down at can con So Anthony are heading up there today. That's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm excited my first time there So gentlemen, let's do some let's do some pick of the week here real quick Tom. What have you been working on? Pick of the week your pick of the week. That's working on it's pick of the week first Yes, I agree. My pick of the week is Rob Signs of Wargamer posted a On infographic for the events this weekend regarding the can con and LBO turnout of armies. You're gonna steal that from him when it's clearly Anthony's hard work. He was posting It was my work. Yeah, that's Anthony's work, my friend Yeah I'll take that as a compliment they've robbed in it and Yes, it's a wonderful data analysis with The side back like so there's a spreadsheet that went up that was old and side-by-side with the percentages of the various armies and Comparing to two meadows, so that's the one that I was talking about but that's that's roms. That's roms. Oh, okay. That's roms. All right So that's fine, so I was right But Anthony thank you for posting that the hard work that you did with gathering the Which is exactly what I think you should self-serve because that show was really good. Cool. All right All right, I'll do a shameless plug then so On Monday just past I did a can con at least review With Clint Mallet and my co-host Liam We took a little bit of a different spin compared to last year Which doom and darkness did an amazing 12 to 15 hour list review of every single list? I took a bit of a different take with a bit of a bit more data analysis to see where those lists were coming from and a can con You know our top lists were cities of Sigma with 19 chosen 18 OBR You know it was quite interesting to see not just which armies were coming but also the sub allegiance and knowing 100% of those OBR lists were Coming from Petrofix elite about 50% were coming from hallow heart seeing the different artifacts the Endless spells from like Gemini and Bailwyn were the two most popular endless spells So that was kind of drawing upon my I see a new series that I've done every month called emerging better So I'm using a OS shorts data to understand a was reminders. What did I say shorts? Yeah? Are you sure sure? I always reminders to take these data to understand how the world is building led this so It's quite fascinating to see how the the the meta is emerging and how new books and and and all these FAQ updates are changing the meta and we'll and we'll see How the emerging meta plays out to the real matter and so far there's a direct correlation which Probably there's no surprise Yeah, what's so I watch that all show it was great. You did an awesome job. I'll link coach's show down below What's on coach's channel, which you should be subbed to But what I love about it is you get really interesting data points. So like just interesting things when you look at like When you look at your data for cancon for cities what you see is like Yeah, there are a couple cities that are you know more popular But more or less all of the cities were represented, right? There's a couple There's like two to three for most of the most the cities had two or three I think I don't think any I think the finnish was the only one had no representation Otherwise everyone had at least two right and then like yeah, halloward had a few more But it wasn't like outsized, you know to a crazy degree whereas when you look at When you look at OBR, yeah, when you look at OBR across LBO and cancon there were 37 OBR lists and 36 of them were Petra Fex elite Yeah, and nine hundred and fifty more tech guard, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly like Yeah It seems like maybe that's a problem just a thought if you've got one chamber thing if you've got one one bone faction One bone clave that's getting that kind of representation It might be too good just a thought maybe we should change that Just a thought like it just it Just seems problematic seems problematic. Yes, great show check it out I really like to break down good on talk on endless spells the artifacts that are being selected all that kind of stuff cool stuff My pick I'm gonna go a little sideways on you and that's because I've had a lot of people ask me about the transparent paints from pro-acryl which are really cool and I don't have a specific video on them, but I do really like them I'll do a video on them at some point But until then James Wappel who is a fantastic artist in the US did a video on the transparent paints If you review them he shows you how he's painting with them how he uses them So I'll link that if you're somebody who's been looking at the pro-acryl transparent paints There you go, so Check it out. Can I share that one stat that I didn't share but please LLV picked up. Yeah, so LLV This is this is awesome, and I'm Disappointed I didn't pick it up But I also had a blackout for three hours, so my prep was a little bit off So Damian LLV God love this man Pulled out that a fun can constat is there are 13 lists from Skaven nine from Zench eight from corn seven from Nurgle Slanish ruined the numbers right they had eight, but I think it's pretty remarkable. It is amazing We were so close One got away from everybody showing up with their number. That's incredible Uh Slanish went to excess That's what she does every time every time ruined it for everyone That's it's pretty much well That's the story of slannish for the past year more or less is ruining it for everyone. So yeah, that seems fair All right, so let's talk about hobby time Tom what you've been working on man other than I mean not much you've been working on finishing your school work You can get that paper Yep, I I've been working on that a lot and so it looks like I might actually make it by my deadline which is encouraging and then Yeah, I'm selling some armies some IG for a friend and so I've been doing a lot of like I Be based off Nice, that's all right. The important part Tom is for you to get done with that dissertation so you can get back to hobbying That's what matters Anthony by yourself. So is it all can come prep all the time. So all can come prep display board is essentially done Check that out on Twitter if you want to see the display board The army is painted to the best as I can with the time that I have but I'll pick that up after can con so Nice door all roads lead to can con sure For myself. I finished up a couple different things finished up another unit for tempest I My pistol ears on motorcycles finished up part of a golden demon project this last week and before I left I started working on my corn demon princess So I wanted to get I have a bunch of I have you know Obviously with doing slaves to darkness demon princes are pretty good again now They're fun, and I want to have a different demon prince depending on the mark I want to use so I've got several different slanesh demon princes I've got a zinch demon prince and now I want to get my corn demon prince because I actually I ran the army Under corn and I had a really good time like S2D corn kind of is exactly what I wanted a corn. It's fun It's I actually really liked like cast nights are good In that in that build so yeah, so I'm excited So she's about halfway done, and now she's gonna sit on my desk Sad and waiting for me to come home to her for another for another week. I'll be back to you, baby Don't worry. Don't worry. All right Gentlemen, are we ready to discuss zinch? You ready to talk it through let's talk about the changer of the ways alright, so Let's begin at the beginning here Let's talk about the generic allegiance abilities. Okay, so a lot of stuff is much the same We still get our we still get our destiny dice you roll nine dice they can be used for specific purposes You're all in the start of the game. There are a few different mechanics that can refill those dice super cool I always like destiny dice There are some of the change covens, which we'll talk about in detail We're gonna frame our discussion through them this week because I think the big story with zinch I'll be interested to get both of your opinions on this is the covens and the battalions being so impactful Okay And then finally we got one new rule which is the locus of change Which is that you subtract one from hit rolls for a tax made with melee weapons that target friendly zinch demon units That are wholly within 12 inches of a friendly zinch demon hero meaning that all your zinch demon heroes are just natively Nag want to be it. Yeah, and all your bubble gum What's in melee? Yes in melee and you're like bubble gum pinkies and your streamers and your flamers if there's a hero around them Then they also can get that make one In vain I just to be don't understand Why? Why this needed to exist What why does half the army get an allegiance ability and the other half doesn't get anything you mean the mortal side Yeah, I don't know. It's it is weird And the irony is that the mortals are on the front of the book right right Yeah, there's like there's one demon up here He's I'd met it should be a flamer up here or a pink horror if there was a flamer and a pink horror on the front That book it would be as advertised. Yes, because that's what you're gonna see folks Let's you know we're gonna get into it But I'm gonna learn to start with a 40,000-foot views in a moment But after we do the basic allegiance abilities, but yeah, it's a good question Tom. I don't know Here's my question. Do we need this at all? I'm gonna answer no like I'm fine with it Like I know that they have locust stuff in other books, right? Like that's like part of the like demons being near or demon heroes give like benefits like I get that And that's normally on the war scroll Then they moved it into the allegiance. It's just it just seems so And I just Like I don't know why you penalize half of your book Is what this tells me is just play demons sure that's what this says Like if you want to use all your abilities always play demons, you know, it's not unlike the It's not unlike the cultist stuff and their lack of marks enslaved the darkness Well, I like like sure They don't do it like like they don't benefit from the legions believe this is the same thing for the for the non-demons Well, what I particularly like is the weird things that benefit from this that don't need it Okay So like archaon would technically be neg one to be hit if he's in Zeke's allegiance because he is a Zeke's demon He has the Zeke's keyword and the demon keyword The chaos lord on demonic mount is neg one to be hit because he did retain his demon keyword and you can mark him Zeke's Right, so he he can run around neg one to hit. There's a lot of weird examples like that I like hey, I love giving archaon a net neg one to be hit in melee sounds super cool to me You know easy. I think that guy needs to be better. Yeah, so I'm down with that. He needs help He does he really needs to get a lift up. You gotta reach for that 800 points. You can get it, buddy You get we should point out that this is class play one of the more fun armies to play Archeon in anyways because of your fate dies And because you can do the old set the die to a six thing and then zip boom Dead Kingslayer So yeah It's just like that is a fun thing you can do in this book because obviously like wound rolls are one of the roles That you can set the test and to and to stick the knife into the models as well Some people lost their demon keyword. Yes, which which would have helped them in that mortal side, but I'm lucky for you. Yes So the because yeah the sky fires the sky fires all your disc writers They lost the demon keyword But really what I'll say is they just aligned to the rest of the demon mounted things in the game Because like except for the demon the demonic mountain except for that guy But your units because like the Hellstriders in sladesh are humans mounted on demonic mounts, right? No demon keyword. I've never had it Skull crushers are you know cast warriors or humans mounted on? Mortal mortal people let's put it that way. They're far from human at that point But mounted on demonic mounts. They don't have the demon keyword, right? And it was even specifically asked like should this have had the demon keyword at some point in the designers commentary They were like no it was purposely omitted Right, so right, but all the other disc writers got pulled as well like the Magister that's on this lost the demon keyword, right? The Zangor shaman lost the demon keyword Yeah, yeah Yep, so So I guess like just now the units don't get that key work, which is fine Like I'm okay with I don't know that I thought in light under sky fires needed a built-in nag one to be hit I don't know that anybody as an allegiance ability needed a built-in nag one to be hit That's my point. Well, it makes a gloomspike gets look like nothing with their little raiders, right? And I know how many I know that makes a few people of my opponents feel like they had a bad time with Some netters within two inches of my got grots. This is 12 inches Yeah, there's a big difference from a net Yep, then just the fact that it's all the time just have heroes around and all those units are just gonna be affected like any Unit backed up by a hero who's holy within 12 just has this on them, right? And like it's the kind of army where you could have a large number like each has a lot of heroes many of whom are Pretty mobile Right like there's plenty of heroes on desk who can zip around Who can be moving like 16 inches so getting that kind of placement of them where they can be passing that That neg wanted to hit around. I mean, they've got to be a zinge demon hero But like the I think of like the guy on the burning cherry for example that dude's a super fast mover You know as a hero and like he can pretty easily get there. There's just there are plenty of examples, right? so Yep Okay Does it doesn't give you a feel though that the style of the army will change like traditionally that demon side You saw lots of loads of change in kairos You almost out seeing now that you want to start rewarded smaller heroes and maybe only one lot of change Mm-hmm. Yeah, you start to kind of get that feel that the build is gonna change. Yeah, I agree So let's do our 40,000 foot view here of the army and what we think of it at a high level Tom start us off Well, hold on There's another big piece of this that we haven't talked about of the regions. Well of the allegiance. Oh the agendas Yeah, there's agendas now. I was gonna separate them later. Okay. That's fine. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. Oh What do I think I I think that the book is grossly strong five-star tournament Okay Cool Anthony, what's your thought on it? Obviously we're pre FAQ so we haven't seen what's gonna come out in that FAQ so very important with that context in mind Absolutely, you can start to see where they want to funnel you from a build and the first book was started off being rewarded as a Demon book change host was ripping it up Then we moved into a Zangor build whether it was Zangor on food or Zangor on disc Now we're coming back to that demon kind of promotion But instead of it being around two or three loads of change you start to see they're pushing as we mentioned into smaller heroes Overall, I'm excited to see some changes However, there are some very overpowered ones that May make people have a bad time with this. Yeah, I agree so my read on the book is Overall, I think this is actually a really good book. It has a lot of fun stuff fun interactions it feels like what it should feel like and There are two or three bad apples in here that are going to if not corrected spoil the bunch Right like I don't want to ever lose sight of the forest for the trees and this stuff Because when I read most of the book like looking through most of it I actually really like a lot of stuff here the different cults and stuff there There's a lot no matter kind of what you want to play with. There's usually a coven that sort of suits you I thought most of the scrolls felt pretty on like looking at almost every scroll I liked a lot of them. I could see uses for most of them. I thought they were interesting I thought a lot of things were simplified. There are a couple exceptions, which we'll get to but like looking through them I thought was cool. Like I really like the changeling change the change the changed wing I guess is what we call them. I Think that the stuff to support the Lord of change is really good Like there's just a lot of things in here that I looked at and said yeah, okay. Do you like the new horror mechanic? No No No, I do not so that might be worth calling out as well for anyone who hasn't read it and we'll get to this Yes, is that the way that horror split out into from pink to blues has changed between books? Yeah, I even really liked their endless spells. I Thought they're in there and the spells were a really interesting take on them. They felt like zinchi endless spells, right? and The problem is There's like two or three things in this army that are straight bent trending broken Right that will absolutely ruin people's days Where and I don't think it's it's tough with this stuff because I Don't want to make it seem like the book is bad. I don't think that's the case. I actually read this book I liked this book Okay I Really like this book. Yeah, I just wish that these couple things that are bad Like there are some things in here that are straight-up bad play experiences for your enemy that Are just not gonna be pleasant and I don't think they're gonna be fun And I think they result in bad games and they should undo it as quick as possible Right like because otherwise Yes, and one of the things that always comes up whenever we have these discussions is Yes, but it can be played around competitively. Okay No army has a hundred percent hit win ratio. That doesn't matter. That's not the bar for broken, right? The bar for broken is and highly competitive players can often make their way around anything That's not the bar Right if an army in a competitive sense is hitting at like 70% plus, which I think this one certainly will be able to I think that's where the zinch will ultimately land if this stuff isn't changed But it'll also be dishing out horrible play experiences if in these couple Focused builds for players who aren't at that competitive level and that's always my concern I hate to be the think of the children guy, but like that's kind of what it is Right There's just some crazy bad things in here There's already predictions that Zen she's gonna take out can con so I think we've got two two major tipping points at the moment with LVO and can con and Obviously, these are pre FAQ. So if they start winning major tournaments so early And most people are gonna have these books as at these armies already. So it's not gonna be a long ramp time We could start seeing how powerful these are Yeah, and Charles in the comments said he played against a flamer heavy list on Saturday And at the top of one he got a thousand points of his army shot off. Yeah, that seems pretty reason Yeah, there is there is one can con listen. I'm talking to can con. Obviously. It's in my hometown or home country And there is one of those builds where you've got a whole heap of flamers and we'll go through list design later But when played correctly, you're gonna have a bad time Yep, absolutely, like I I fear these bent lists piloted by a good player because they will start rolling people I'm sure you'll come around to I wish I wish it wasn't broke Yeah, yeah, no, I that's a completely fair point I think the way I want to attack this Tom is I want to look through the lens the coven's Because that's what's gonna let give us the doorway in here and let's face it. We're gonna talk As I said, we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff But I want to start through the lens the two covens that are probably going to be seen the most especially in like Tournament stuff and things like that. Is that a fair thing to do? You all right with that yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, so you you had mentioned the agendas Just as an as an additional note as a fun thing zeech also has these agendas I think they will be impactful enough on the games like the one you'll see all the time is Zeech wizards will execute on it the agendas are a thing you have to announce You're doing it and then if you do it and you pull it off you get to a betting for the rest of the game and The unit any unit can only benefit from one agenda at a time And the one you're gonna see all the time is the one that adds plus one to casting roles for zeech wizards So what I want people to keep in mind is just in addition to everything else Zeech wizards can often execute an agenda earlier in the game to Easily get an additional plus one to cast once they've completed this agenda Right Right. Yep. So there's a couple cool agendas. They're actually really neat mechanic This is the kind of stuff. I like I like that you have to say at the start of your hero phase You can say that your army intends to complete one of the following agendas before the start of your next hero phase You must tell your opponent which agenda you intend to complete and you cannot complete the same agenda more than once per battle If you complete it If a friendly zeech unit completes one of the following agendas during a battle that unit gains that agenda's ability for the rest of The battle friendly zeech units that complete more than one agenda much choose which ability they will wish to keep any other ones Are lost so that's how agendas work It's cool stuff like just to give a quick taste of this mass Conjuration agenda pick one friendly zeech wizard if that wizard it successfully cast two spells and or endless spells in that hero phase with an unmodified casting roll of nine plus Which keep in mind the bird big bird flipping the dice which he can do Where he takes his lower die and makes it match his higher die. That's not actually modifying it So he can do that. So basically if if either of his rolls are a Five and you can get me doubles that boom boom. He's got a ten And then the result is add one to casting rolls for the zeech wizard that completed this agenda So cool. Just pull stuff like that. They're already magic strong Absolutely, they're already gonna be casting spells. There's no actual cost there. You were going to cast two spells anyways This is the kind of stuff. I really like We're just like there's nothing shady about it. It's neat. It's fun It gives them their own sort of secondary play reminds me a lot like the Lords on the war bosses on more Crusher right the mega boss. They do they get gain extra wounds as they keep damages, right? Yeah, I mean so what I would say that's not the one that actually concerns me. Yeah, sure I mean that was just gonna happen all the time, but yes Yeah Tides of anarchy is the one that I think is gonna be a problem Which is if a unit of nine or more models gains control of an objective By your opponent previously the objectives complete And then for the rest of the game that unit counts as like to every model counts as two models instead of one for control that effective and so for like a pink or unit that gets on an Objective especially if they large pink or unit that's gonna be a real problem when they take that Yep, and we'll talk about why as we get into pink or because it's it's gonna be I want to get into pink Horses and why they're gonna be absolutely bent. Yeah Yeah So speaking of pink horse Let's let's get right into it guys shall we we're gonna skip the spell lords and artifacts and all of that Tom shall we talk about the hosts duplicitous? One of the two things I would argue you're gonna see a lot Do we have to We must Tom because it's our job to to arm people with knowledge for the great to good. That's right. Yes We got it. We got a towel it up here Tom So The host duplicitous is the most powerful coven I would argue It might be the most powerful thing like this in the game The only thing that keeps it from being Petrifex is that this book has two Petrifex's Like there are two that are just so good and above the of like so above all the rest that like they're they're both Vying to kill each other. Okay host duplicitous So these are your covens your chambers your you know the thing where you set that chooses your command trait your artifact We're what we're all familiar with since we saw it in the strong case book All right, your generic ability for everybody in the host duplicitous is enemy units Within three inches of a host duplicitous unit cannot retreat Just army-wide No, not happening boom First of all shutting off retreat You can go back and watch any show where there was a battalion or a something that turned off retreating and Constantly we always said this is one of the most powerful abilities in the game Well does does KO's Gun hauler fly high. Does that count as a retreat if it's in combat? This is a great question It doesn't we don't know yet. We don't know yet. I don't know yet. Yeah It's a set up technically. Yeah as a set up it like setups are never retreats But it says something about it can retreat and disengage. Yeah And so like who's a flip knows so right now we're stopping potentially Maybe again, I really hope they answer that in the FAQ There's that the garrisoning and flying high rules need to be about three pages in the KO FAQ But that's we talked about last week. We don't want this to be on the on the TOs, right? We shouldn't be leaving that kind of judgment to them. No, that's not fair, right? No, and I mean so you're the only way you're gonna get away from this rule Is to either kill out that unit? Yeah, or have an in combat teleport Or have an in combat teleport So like mask of darkness Yeah, like mask of darkness in slaves to darkness can do this because it can rip a unit out of combat and set Them up somewhere nine inches away things that act like that, right? Yeah, but this but this army is gonna tend to also have Like bodies that can teleport around and zone out and then change those Yeah, which means that like actually teleporting out combat is not gonna be good because they can zone you will assault the table Yeah, I mean this is an army of Board control no doubt about it. This army screams board control They can they can put down the bodies on the on the board So that means if they tar pit you You cannot escape Because unless you've got an in combat teleport or something like that. You're just stuck there fighting them Gentlemen, I think it's time. We immediately talk about pink horrors because Yeah, this is where it's relevant. You think okay, but they're a bunch of stupid Zeke demons. How hard is it to punch three screamers to death? Yes, it's true if I Sure, yes, it's true if I tag the corner of your unit with like three little, you know Surfers You can't get you can't retreat, but how hard is it to turn and go kill three screamers? Well, yeah, that's true Unfortunately, we're actually talking about pink horrors so Let's talk about dem horrors. I got a clip to him here in the book And I'm just strategically moving my body so you don't see my 40 pink horrors that I already know. I already own them their metal Don't judge me. Whoa Metal horrors you got the old school horrors. Yeah, they are the ones like the little boogly ones. Nice. Nice All right horrors of zinch So most importantly horrors of zinch are your battle line if they're pink if you're taking you can buy them in as Pinkies as blues or as brims You get 10 for 200 They are a wizard if they have at least nine models Okay, so 10 of them are 220 of them are 400, right? and What's relevant here is the way that they split now So they have they have normal stuff. I'm not gonna read their whole worst for all it doesn't really matter Like first of all, they do have a six up Feel no pain on the pinkies only Which is cool fine like the pinkies have a six up feel no pain. They don't need it, but they have it They're they're neg one to be hit as we mentioned from the locus if there's a hero around They themselves have a little ranged attack, you know, they throw magical flames and attack with talent hands. None of which are great They're okay, but they're not great But most importantly we have the split and split again role When you allocate wounds or mortal wounds to this unit, you must allocate them to pink horror models if it's possible to do so Each time an iridescence, which is just your champion or a pink horror Model from this friendly unit with this ability is slain you add two blue horror models to that unit after removing the slain model Each time a blue horror model from a friendly unit within this ability is slain You can add one broomstone horror model to that unit after removing the slain model Set up the additional models one at a time within one inch of the position that the slain model had occupied The additional models can only be set up within three inches of an enemy unit If the position of that slain model had occupied or any other models in a slain models unit are within three inches of that enemy unit If you cannot set up additional models in this way, they are removed from their move from play. They do not count as being slain Okay, so Every pink so we have ten pinks. That's ten wounds Ten pinks becomes twenty blues, which is twenty more wounds. We now have a total of 30 all Twenty blues become twenty brims Which is twenty more wounds meaning that every For 200 points with ten pink horrors. You're getting a wizard as long as they have nine or more pinkies To go to 20 obviously they're wizarding lasts a lot longer and you're getting 50 wounds of Tar pit that cannot be retreated from Right Because of just a number Right Yep Yeah, because pink and blues both have I mean the blues have one less Magical flame attack so ranged, but they have the same melee profile Right, I understand. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I am agreeing with you in melee. Yes In shooting it doesn't work out at the same double because yes You have twice many models, but you have one last shot, right? So it's still yes. It is still more shots Absolutely. Yes, right because assuming you had all 20 like when you have ten pinks You make 30 shots on fives and fours no rend one damage right when you have When you've got 20 blues you make 40 shots fives and fours no rend one damage Right, but the key is is that every think that you lose that goes from three attacks to four attacks Yes, that's right. Always always. So like there's never any point where it doesn't get stronger going to believe I agree. It's only going to bring that it gets worse Yep, and then I do minus one to hit. Yep. If you're sitting in one of the covens. Yep So or there's a leader around these are horrible horrible horrible Tar pits They they can self-buff their spell that they get Because they can attempt to cast one spell on your hair phase and unbind one spell on the enemy hero phase And that's a change from the last book where the pink horrors used to be able to do some Cost an endless spell or cost a regular zench spell. Yep And it only knows the channel pink fire spell It cannot attempt to cast any other spells other than channel pink fire, but all the different horrors units can all cast the spell in the same phase and basically It just gives them one to hit rolls, right? So it moves them down to four and fours. They could be on threes and fours with their with their flames with their magical flames, which is their their ranged attack if there are 20 pinks so if there are 20 of these guys and they And they get the spell for themselves then that unit of 20 makes 60 attacks on threes and fours no red one damage average Lots of lots of fire. It's just a lot of fire, right? It's way to die And all of them will be in within range because they can teleport nine inches out as changes And then they you can spend the dice to auto charge to the auto carpet anything they want to charge And like as you kill them what they'll do is since they're already in combat You'll string them out and every time that they grow They're going to pull other units into combat So you can set them up within three inches of a unit if they're in combat with another unit right Yep, so they like It's just going to they will snake out and touch everything So like it's just going to be a nightmare. So so let's make this real Yeah, let's make this very real Let's assume a unit of 20 pinks Okay, we'll talk about change us in a moment because we're gonna we're gonna go down this rabbit hole as we trace this through Let's take a unit of 20 pinks You know 20 pinks just 400 points, right? Yep Assume we don't have anything else around except some kind of demons each demon here are standing near them, right? Let's just keep it that simple We're gonna we can bring them and the hero up the board place them both so we know we can nail our thing, right? We can easily auto land a charge because we have destiny dice like that's not We get nine inch charges aren't a thing when we need to land them in each because we have destiny dice so We can charge them into you spread them down as much as we can across the army that those 20 guys are Gonna make from from their their range They make 60 attacks on threes and fours no rend one damage They just throw a bunch of fire before they go in right Because they cast their spell and then you teleport them up And then they're gonna charge and that is now effectively a hundred wounds worth of tar pit engaging most of your army that you can't Retreat from and the hero still behind them so he could always keep them battle-shocked immunity if needed to be Right and my favorite pink that you remove you put in two blues and since early in combat You can set them up in combat and so you could actually use it this like you could like To make out behind and wrap it and pull other units in the combat So they are perpetually tar pit by this hundred wounds monstrosity and if that's not gross enough It's the fact that you can return models to the unit. Yeah Okay, yeah and Through multiple sources not the least of which is just rolling a one on battle shock Yeah, just rolling a lot of battle shock. It's just And when you're doing that you're replacing pinks. Yes, right, right, you always replace pink Right so we're splitting out into blues and then we're adding d6 pinks assuming we've got one in our destiny dice Yep, and all we roll along yep And what that and the math of that is really that that one pink horror Has the effective wounds of a bearing guard Right, I mean that's the real math And they have at least, you know, like that's the one six up workspace and they're permanently make one to hit melee Um, if they have a hero here by right and that's all I'm assuming for this I'm not I don't want to we can go crazier with the combo You could we can gild this lily all day long. There's a bunch of synergy in this book I don't want to do that because when you do that then that opens the door to people saying Yeah, but how often does that situation come up and that's fair because oftentimes in games that isn't how it works Right, things do get disrupted But here I am literally talking about an automatic teleport and two units Any zinch demon hero and this unit and that's it That's it. I need nothing else right It is just this is base functionality And if you don't have a teleport you're now hemmed in and if you can't fly You're stuck behind your own troops Right because this stuff like picture how much of your army they might have just pinned in if they pinned your your front wall Right your back stuff if it can't fly It can now go nowhere except charge into this tar pit where it's now going to be stuck So how do I handle that if I'm if I'm the opponent I'm going to can con and I have this block of 20 pink horrors Coming at me in a change hose under the coven What are my responses? So I need flies are things like thermal rider cloak or he's ready to fly I'm going to start thinking about yep I need to be able to reach out and touch that hero to reduce the uh the impacts of the um The the minus one to hit. Yep. Also getting rid of the hero will hopefully reduce the battle shocking I mean they can still always each die the one but it but I mean if they don't have that it's still something Chaff walls that move out Chaff walls that move out are really valuable against this army against changes, right? Like if you have chaff walls that get screwed out That's actually the most the most valuable counterplay in this army is something that pre game moves. Yeah Uh, you need a pre game move in order to do that. Yeah, like the untamed beasts or Um, the spoilers have a pre game move for there. I think on goers. Yeah, I'm going on the raiders can do it. Yeah, exactly Um, that's uh, that's a mercenary marauders mercenary marauders. Yep a lot of chaos Yeah, give me back my free guild archers. I know right where back my archers. Where'd the free guild archers go? Uh, yep, okay Um So obviously not to whinge about it but just keep in mind if you're about to face a zenchami. This is gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah Exactly. This is just the reality of the thing Yeah, you like the other option Is to fight your way through it? Sure And to be fair once the pinks are gone. It's just a bunch of stuff if the hero's still alive and the pinks are gone It's a bunch of stuff on a six up save. It's just a lot of wounds The question is does your army have the hitting power How long does it take your army to basically just deal 100 damage? Right or or 90 if the pinks are gone because the save is more or less irrelevant If the hero's there, it's how fast can your army deal 90 damage? Let's call it that right? Can you do that in a turn 90 plus Under neg one to be hit against a six up save And that's and that's with one Of their blocks of uh, that's 400 points. Sure. They can always do this to you again. Yes. What you're You're fighting at a 40 for no you're fighting. Sorry 20 percent of their army Yeah, they can have another one of these very Beans of late. Sure. I've seen many lists that run to 20 blocks Yes Or a 20 and a 10 and a 10 and a summonable 10 because keep in mind you're gone summoner Can also just show up and just like for free go here's 10 more that become 50 wounds And they're going to inherit that can't retreat that thing as well Right Yeah, I mean, I think your best bets are going to be melee armies That can That can hero phase pile in sure. Yeah. Yeah, sure So I think like like daughters as well positioned sure because if you rock them in combat, they're going to go Okay, you done? Yeah, and then like and they they're going to spin up and most will pile in and just dump a bunch of command points and go to town you know I think that uh Fire slayers have a chance to punch out of this sure 100% like her guard will wreck this. Yes, you Right, like and if they're if they're the axe her guard that would turn like two damage a hit You know with their double piling is their double piling in both both both phases both their phase and your phase Right. Um, so you could potentially in two combat you would like every pile is going to be 34 damage So you could feasibly cut out of them in like one and a half or in one and a half combat You know free pilots you're going to cut you're going to cut out of each 20 block You know uh oryx ogres things that are like real high on the damage chart Can fight their way out of this the the question is in the let's say Let's be optimistic and say two rounds of combat not too not too Battle rounds two turns of combat that it takes you to punch your way through all of that Have that has this each player established such dominant board control of the objectives That it now becomes a real challenge for you to get them Off right how much have they gotten ahead on the objective? Uh on the objective game at that point take two units of screamers You've got some super fast mobile units now holding objectives and claiming objectives while those pink horrors have locked you into combat and Potentially scored enough points where it makes it almost hard to come back. Yeah. Yeah, exactly I don't think that's the fear like there are plenty of armies. They can deal 90 to 100 damage in one or two combat activations Right like especially if they have a huge part of their army fight I think corn could potentially do it as well. I think corn's positioned well to potentially grind out Sure, absolutely The the question just becomes how I think a lot of this is scenario dependent, you know, like if it's something like Star strike or whatever right where where? There's no point to them hemming you in right away because nothing's even happened yet, right? There's no objective to grab But different but focal points. I don't know like they could get way out ahead on something like a focal point Does this reward you for not taking a death star and you know, we're spreading your army out Or it's like duality of death star deployment where you have two or three different I guess power pairs right as opposed to bubble wrapping. Yep so Uh, I mean horrors are very scary and and by the way, that's all I read was the ability Of the host duplicitous. We didn't even do the rest Okay, so like this was the this is the counterpoint. Is that let's say that you do cut through That 20 block of thinkors. Yep They get and on a five plus they get a new unit They put that one unit back on table, right? They put that 400 points back on the table Yep Now it's only on a five up but still and you can't zinch die that either because it's not one of the Once per gate, you know if once per gate, so you're not going to do it every time that I unit guys But on that but if you manage to cut through those 100 wounds They can still put it back on the table on a five block, right? I mean, I'll tell you right now. I worry about dealing that kind of damage in like my Like my slaves to darkness. I'm not sure where I deal that kind of damage to get out of there Like if they hem me and I'm hemmed in yeah for the game No, I mean your best bet would be a slave to darkness You could play I think nervel is well positioned to fight this sure because they're going to bounce bounce mortals sometimes on the the sixes to On enemy sixes to win So nervel might have a play but not a strong one and then The other thing is going to do well Are you like what I'm thinking about is like I struggle to take like how does knight on fight this Sure, you keep you keep half your units in the underworld and yeah, yeah, exactly delay your drops until they've moved But I hope that they don't spread out too much of the board. Yeah Yeah They teleport to units and zone you off the table and then yeah, you just you're just delaying you're delaying the inevitable, right? It's it's tricky. Yeah, I know I know from my my hello heart I'm relying on a spell So and that's that's clearly not a good reason to be doing that against his inch and then they get rewarded from The way they generate so many points. Yeah, it's a Rough time. I also want to talk about I mean everything in host duplicitous is more or less amazing So like I don't want to stop because there's two more amazing things So, yeah, once a game their command ability lets them on a five up bringing a unit of horrors back The will of the phantom lord their command trait You can reroll casting and unbinding rolls, but not spelling Uh for friendly hosts duplicitous demon wizards Well, they are wholly within nine inches of this general Which is just amazing because that means like your lord of change is now like has the contorted epitome ability Or he just rerolls everything. So like if you do happen to roll And not like it Right, you can like, oh, I only got a two and a one and that makes it a four Not just reroll that and then the other dice is going to tick up again Like it makes him into an ultra caster. Yeah The artifact that they have let you pick somebody and add one to save rolls for them, which is cool. That's fine I mean anything like plus one to save is a pretty rare bonus just getting a straight plus one So like there are heroes you can build out here that can be rather tough Um, so like you could take your you could take a fate master if you wanted to get kooky And he could be rolling around on like a on an effective plus three Right against a lot of folks because he gets plus two normally if he's fighting like non-flying things And this could be an extra one. So he's on an effective one up makes him pretty brand proof kind of cool So I think school's an agenda gets another plus one. Yeah, there you go. Exactly. And it just makes him a good I really I one of the things I really rate in this army is the the fate master We'll talk about individual units later, but I rate him for the same reason I rate things like the mask in slanesh. He's your like little Little floater to pin Corners of units and stuff like that. He's just good at going out there and floating around and dealing with stuff. So Yeah Yeah, uh, so so Caleb had asked me earlier how I would I fix the zeech? Um, let me just say that like for host duplicitous. I don't know that there is a fix for the nobody Well, you're saying fix like change its rules But like the answer is the horrors rule is just innately problematic Right because anytime you're generating there is is there any other example in the game? Of this much of a wound point ratio 50 wounds for 200 points Yeah, um, uh, scaven, uh clan rats for 60 for 200, right? No No, scaven clan rats are 40 for 200 20 for 120 40 for 200 I can't think of anything Which is I think like that there's a couple of like those are the cheapest things, right? So like clan rats are yeah clan rats are 40 wounds for 200 I don't know that I can think of anything else that has this much So no, no, I'm wrong. I think clan rats are one of the Better units in the game mainly because of the and the thing that makes clan rats one of the best units in the game Is not just their wounds count. We're you know wound for point But also the fact that they can retreat and charge or could Not against this Right. Yeah I don't know like I think like a 150 which elf list might be able to handle this like a high gnaw Which elf list? Oh sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like like 150 and then you do like two cauldrons and see I don't I don't like to even frame it like that because that makes it sound like this is That makes it sound like this is unbeatable. This is not unbeatable Right, like it's not that this is again. The bar isn't a hundred percent Right That's not the bar What what what handle like what is the counter to this? Well, we talked about some of them. This can be beaten scenarios are very boards are very players are very this will win This will lose It's the reason it's bad isn't because it's like sitting on an it's not unbeatable. There's no such thing It doesn't exist in this game. Okay Sure The issue with it isn't it's unbeatable the issue with it is one It's often going to be extremely negative To it's probably outside of the fat middle curve Like looking at it if we accept that the fat middle curve would give you a 40 to 60 percent sort of win ratio And that's where we want to land You just read this and go this is going to exist outside of it It just is because even against other powerhouse armies, it's going to be very hard to beat Right I think it opens up a lot of interesting questions as well Like as you go into tournament list preparation and start thinking about how does my army handle certain builds I've now got to start thinking about how do I handle this type of army list? But then the same in the same list. I need to think about how do I handle an OBR list? Maybe with two or three catapults. How do I also handle a turn one stone horn or more crusher list? And they're all very different challenges And it's very much a rock paper scissor But it's certainly an interesting question that I think not a lot of people have thought about How do I respond to this? So this is a really cool discussion Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree completely All right, so I want to talk about changes I think this is going to wreck fate Yes. Oh, I don't disagree with that Tom It's super powerful too powerful bent trending broken. Well, there's two of these lists at cancon So we know I think the other host you're going to talk about is yeah is five But there are two of these hosts you put to this at cancon I don't know what the numbers are for lvo But we might get a real example in the next few days. Yeah the challenge The challenge obviously with running a real powerhouse host duplicitous is it is extremely model intensive, right? Because like It does take a ton of different horrors and blue horrors and brimstone horrors And so like it's entirely possible that people just didn't have those models painted yet We did we did see a lot of demon change hosts for a while Sure And I guess the question is how many of the heroes do they have to quickly get them on the table You would have had to almost had this list before yeah to really like or just be like You know knuckle down for this for these big tournaments. You've only had like contrast two weeks. Yeah contrast for the wind Yeah, and that's that's actually another scary thing is that Before contrast it would take time for these types of lists to hit the table now with contrast Literally, I can get this done in a week. Yeah Yeah, this is it just takes a lot of these minis Uh Sorry, I'm just trying to catch up with the comments the commentary is fast and furious today Uh, and there's a lot going on No, uh, Caleb had asked It said uh, for example that uh That he'll get a one on sportsmanship to a con if he's playing change hosts How do I feel about that? And I just informed him that I'm going to universally give ones to any change hosts I play That's harsh Caleb I'll give you a five all day long buddy because that's not what sportsmanship is sportsmanship is how you play And Caleb is a super nice guy just because he's kicking your teeth and don't be hurt Caleb's a really nice guy to play against. I hate to play. I hate the game. That's right. That's right That's a bad attitude tom. You get a you get a one on co-hostmanship right now for that attitude No, sure sure. I'll take it. I'll take it. But I mean, yeah, this is the one we live in All right, so host duplicities strong strong crazy strong st strong st. You're strong. Absolutely It It's like playing very hard way Sure Be a good human and don't run it community. So let's talk about the other super strong thing. Okay We're ready for the other one. Why not? Well, let's let's hop from one potentially bent broken thing into a different one. Okay The eternal conflagration Can I just say it's really nice that games workshop put them on the same pages? Like you don't have to move like literally. Yeah, it's just like You can literally do this. Which one do I want? Well, I don't have to come. I don't have to change my pages It's like literally there for me. Yeah, how do I want to ruin people's lives today? You know, you had to give either Could be either. Yeah Okay Uh the eternal conflagration Okay, uh For your your general ability improve the rend characteristic of friendly eternal conflagration units Warp flame billowing work flame and magical flames missile weapons by one All right, so warp flame and billowing warp flame are your flamers and your exalted flamers And magical flames are your pink horrors So those 60 shots we just mentioned are now on like threes fours neg one one damage But of course that now becomes the splash damage the bonus damage Right in an in the eternal conflagration because if we're going to talk about this then Oh my fellows my Uh my lords and ladies have changed It is time then for us to talk. Oh, by the way, the horrors and the flamers are also On the same page like right next to each other So environmentally for a gang's workshop should have just printed off four pages. Correct. You need four pages Allegiance ability and then the the double page. Yeah five pages to ruin your life. Yeah Use use your prior book And then hear your former ron of pages. He's some uh, he's some paper glue to stick it onto your new book. Okay So flamers of zinch, let's get into these guys because whoa Nelly Did these boys change flamers? Okay. So flamers of zinch are 120 for three They max at 12 just 480 no horde discount They are battle line in eternal conflagration. So between the flamers and the pink horrors You're satisfying all of your battle line, which is great For later calculations the exalted flamer who's going to become important in a moment Is 100 points, but we'll get to him in a moment All right flamers of zinch So flamers of zinch have warp flame 18 inch range three attacks fours threes no rend d3 damage Okay so a unit of 12 Makes 36 attacks at fours threes No rend d3 damage Right, that's our unit 480 points If we're in eternal conflagration, then that all becomes a rend neg one However written on the flamers war scroll You add one to hit rolls if there is an exalted flamer wholly within nine inches of them Okay, cool. That's easy enough again. We've mentioned We've offhand to mention that change host can teleport two units every round for threes and threes now We're at threes and threes neg one d3 damage You also add one to hit rolls for attacks made by this unit if they're targeting a unit of 10 or more models Two's and threes neg one. Yep, and you add another one to hit if they're targeting a unit with 20 or more models So still technically twos and threes, but even if they're shooting something that's neg one to be hit They're still hitting on twos if it's if it's a unit of 20 or more. Yeah, okay This is also the moment where we should mention that there is an artifact That you can take on zinch demon heroes That gives you plus one to wound In a big radius around you not for one person not for one unit. It's just a bubble of plus one to wound so That can also be there. So now we can be on 36 attacks at twos and twos neg one d3 damage So the so the question you're gonna hold on time. I want to get to the end of this road So the question you might ask is Well, Vince, what does that actually amount to damage wise? Why that's a great question So let's assume That you can uh Teleport your two let's say you got two 12ers of flamers In some way Now that's not necessarily going to work in change. So she kind of got to go sixes. It doesn't matter Let's just assume two units of 12 flamers with an exalted backing them up Okay That's it And we can get them on twos and twos. So they're going to target units of at least 10 models Okay Against a four up save So on twos that would that now become 72 attacks At twos twos neg one d3 damage hitting an 18 inch range And that against a four up save that deals an average of 75 to 83 damage 83 wounds after safe In other words, they can remove two horde units from the battlefield on a four up save Start a one or whatever whenever they target boom zip Now that costs 1060 points what I just said what I just described. Okay So and yes, it could And yes, it could fit in change host Like there are various ways you might have to do that. You might have to do 1266 Whatever The point is it is eminently fitable in change host as a one drop that can be done I built several different change host one drops that have 24 flamers. It's super doable Um And that's the kind of damage we're talking about here We're talking about army melting damage There are certain armies that this can kill Right away like just melt you off the table dead. Yeah And everybody when they think about this they think about it as the alpha strike of like i'm going to teleport my dudes straight up I'm going to just burn you right off the table Yeah, that's possible if somebody sets up poorly. That's actually the worst way to run this army The right way to run this army is you've still got your lord to change You've got other brims as chaff is you build this mobile moving fire fortress That just like i'll give you the first turn. I'm chaffed eye. I come back depending on your your range of magical power I can shut off your magic. I'm not worried about that. I'm zinch I've got dispels and all that kind of stuff going out the out the out the gang here And uh, I'm just gonna like move it up and just Flatten you right? I just move forward and just out comes this Fire because all the pinks get this neg one if they're in the range They'll get the plus one to wound and it's just like this melting wall of flame that just comes up and litter in this 18 inch barrier Just starts melting everything in front of it the alpha strike puts you in a weak position because then you're all A kimbo and spread out just move forward and melt their army in the bottom of one top of two Like if you get the double their armies going I want to In perspective then historical perspective. Okay in the KO book initially launched Three years ago. Did we remember this? Yeah, they were a problem because they were a hundred points And you could put five gun stock mortars on these guys who moved for That they were they could have five attacks at four plus three plus the three damage right no rent And the problem was well, what if we give them a chemist and we give them plus one attack and then and then and then and what Like they have the same profile. No rent No ability to teleport like uh a change those does So change those with its teleport has a better reach And like has more base attacks on on a base unit of three of these guys It on on base it has nine attacks versus the five that the gun stock mortars have On the old thunder unit the one that we had to like break the KO book four And like reprint a war scroll three weeks or three months later. Yep And now we have this Which is more damage. I mean just to give some other examples Yeah, which is grossly more damage right and mobility So let me give you some other fun examples of what this can do An ironclad that burns its triumph and is on three up rerollables Okay, like one of the best saves for a monster in the game right now because that because the because the ironclad has a Aether gold and so it can just burn it and be on reroll all saves So it's on three up complete rerolling It kills that it kills that in a turn unless there's a gun unless there's gun haulers there to take damage from it that thing's dead That's pretty easy Against units for the five up save it can kill this can melt two full-size units of gluttons in a single shooting round Yeah, so two 12ers of gluttons cease existing on average in a single round shooting It will deal more than 90 more than the 96 wounds they have. Yeah Um Two or five up save i'm sure even phoenix guard would Would you would delete a unit of 30 phoenix guard or very very close to yeah? Yeah, you would easily yeah because you'd be on like they would they would be in that realm of taking the 75 to 83 damage Yeah, so like their four up save would cut that in half. So let's call it 37 Yeah, so you'd be on a five plus and then an additional four plus right that additional four plus would then trigger on the on the 75 Yeah Yeah, look the look the good news is though There is good news and that's the exalted flamer is not a hero. So they can't make you reroll ones. There you go. Yeah, there you go Yay Um, so kaleb asked a question. It's like this book changed the meta. Is it good or a bad thing for the game? Is it is you know, is it right? Is it does it make other people adjust? I mean my answer is the two lists we've just talked about are absolutely bad for the game because they are pure NPE and I'm trying I I am very rare to get negative play experience out I don't generally believe that I think armies should push and test the meta in some interesting ways Right, but there's a line there And the line is when People who don't know how to set up heavy chat walls And and really like space out and don't know how to set up their army Like I see people share pictures at the beginning of their battle all the time And their armies just like set up on the line Unit unit unit unit in a row and I'm like, oh cool. If I was playing that army was each I will kill you at the top of one because of how you just set up like you're dead. You're just you're dead I just killed your army And like that doesn't take a great player That just takes that is a modicum of skill to realize that you can do this and like that's going to be happening to people Yeah, that's not good getting What so let's put this in perspective when I say 75 to 83 damage against a four up save 83 wounds people might not have that perspective the average list at can con uh one 22 122 wounds okay You now got a 30 or army left go win. Yeah, and and that's always the challenge Is how do I count to punch that can I absorb that damage? I hope they don't double turn because if they make you go first, right They may like you before you get to move that roll dice again. Yeah. Yeah, and and that's and that's a very realistic Thing that'll happen. Yeah So like it's just it it's There you go. I mean it is what it is, right? I'm I'm ready for the ashen army that is permanently out of line of sight for all of you And Plantation comes in their generic ability is units may not see them when making like missile attacks. That's it So we're thinking are we thinking things as well like palisades if you're in destruction you've got your Your phonetics the small split of phonetics Things that can stop range are strong like yeah having it up The problem is if they out drop you because this can all go in a one drop and they can just do it Like because they they have a get rid of an endless spell once per Yeah, that's true. They do have an auto endless spell. Okay This is the magic. This is the magic like army So like endless spells won't save you Um, like I spent a lot of time thinking about this than that like a lot of time And I think I honestly in my opinion, I think fire slayers have the best Sure, they can absorb that kind of actual heat damage and they can punch back hard enough to kill it because we should state Like again, this is six wounds. You're getting for that 120 points on a five up save, right? They didn't like kick back a tiny amount of mortar wounds back when you kill them in melee They are this is the most glass cannon shooting unit that they've ever manufactured, right? It's not hard to kill The question is is there anything left to kill it? And that's why I say the stronger build of this isn't the alpha throw them up the board and hope for the best Because that's what everyone says. Yeah, but as soon as they throw it up, you're just going to wipe them Maybe maybe not. Okay. That's why the better build of this is like Is like a bunch of brims row pinks Flamers behind in this castle with the lord of change anchoring it and then two other flying heroes You can jump the top and you just walk it forward and then out comes this like just stretch out your arm That is death. Yeah, except except that in turn one Maybe even turn two you may not have the range to shoot But know that when that wall hits you is going to eviscerate anything in the path. Yeah, okay You can take the objectives turn one. Go ahead. I'll give them to you. You can have them all You're not going to see the end of turn up that you won't be on them at the end of turn two Because like like I said, I think your best bet is something like fire slayers who have the punch who can fight out Who can protect their heroes that are on the table with the oryx? Um, they can put strategic units off the table with deep striking So they can have that counter punch Wherever they need it, you know, like when they teleport And they can cheat with line of sight because the the magma invocation the firewall still blocks line of sight the heroes Sure And it can't be dispelled by the right. It's a prayer or not. I don't know the spell. Yeah Well, we should also like the prayer Makes it not unstable. And so like there are ways. I think the best. I think the best counter to Zing is fire slayers, okay Yeah, I think by the way, which is ironic because this is all fire and they are the fire slayers Huh, see it has been foretold Uh, we should also point out that the general in an eternal conflagration Who has this the command trait that it grants you he's broadcasting a 12 inch Bubble of neg one to be hit from shooting. Yeah So not only is he giving all the people around him like not only are all the heroes giving a neg one to be hit in melee He's also putting out just this big bubble of neg one to be hit from shooting So if you are someone like ko or something who's going to try to put the hot guns back on them first You're also fighting through that which which rewards the um that castle approach as opposed to the throwing it up the board and Yep, and you know, yeah, you might do some damage up front, but you're gonna lose that in the response The floating castle of zeech Just seems like an outrageously strong way to play this army Yeah, I mean it's it's a really like it's Yeah, it's There's five of these it can call it by the way Five of these five of these so of the nine two were in the duplicitous. Yeah five are in this one. What are the others you? Uh You keep talking and I'll bring it all right. I'm I'm excited. I want to know what the other two are I want to know I want to know the two guild of summoners guild of summoners My two heroes that's who you are whoever you are guild of summoners players You are my heroes at can con. I want you to know that if I see you this weekend Come find me. I will shake your hand You win You are great So well done Uh Yes, because they can against a six up save they will deal more than a hundred damage in a turn Oh, we're in a round machine Like they zone out they backboard You know their own teleporting it's a coin flip by the way as to who actually one drops Yeah, and that's probably a really good call out as well as that zeech has brought back the one drop Where in most other armies they that's really lost that I'm going to sylvanith. We're very famous for the one drop Change host is one of the few armies out right now with an updated book with a one drop So they're going to dictate terms right from the start. You know, we've danced around this for a long time Let's just talk change host gentlemen. Shall we? All right Change host it is a battalion. It is 180 points off the top. I hope is that right? Yes nailed it boom. Ha got it got One lord of change show off the bike drop it. I'm done one lord of change and then eight units In any combination from the following list horror heroes bold Right, so any of the horror heroes Which by the way is like the changeling and the flux master and the change caster And the fate scammer and ever. Yeah, you get it. You get it. You get what I'm saying here. Okay Any of those dudes? Exalted flamers of zeech horrors of zeech Flamers of zeech Screamers of zeech and burning chariots of zeech Basically anything that's demon Basically, yeah, exactly. So all your battle line and if you're in conflagration where your flamers are Battle line they're fitting in here. Obviously all the horrors are fitting in here All your different heroes including one lord of change is in here And your ability is at the start of your hero phase If the lord of change from this battalion is your general and is on the battlefield You can pick two other friendly units from this battalion Remove them from the battlefield. Just wherever they are. He just he's alive He picks two other ones. They don't need to be near him. He just needs to exist Right If you do so set up those units again anywhere on the battlefield more than nine inches away from enemy units And then they can't move as per normal. So every round you can just take two units pick them up put them down Jump down turn around pick a bale of cotton. That's right pick a bale of pink horrors There you go okay, so There's that that's what that does and it is very one-droppy right easy easy peasy one-droppy Uh easy peasy lemon squeezy if you're going down as inch a demon route. There's almost nothing That doesn't fit into that right Uh, other than other than kairos Yes, if you wanted to take kairos, it's actually a lord of change. Correct. Hold it. Yeah, correct So if you took kairos you'd be two drop if you're lord of change, it's just one drop So other than that Yeah That's right. That's right All right, so that's all that stuff but and that's kind of how that goes and now we've gotten through Look, we got through all the super competitive stuff Can we talk about some fun stuff here because there is really fun stuff in this book? Yeah Let's talk about some fun stuff. Shall we it's not all bad It's not all like I wanted to really get that out there for people to understand the stuff that I think is bent But it's not like this whole book is just off kilter. There's a bunch of really cool stuff in here that I like Okay, so my advice to everyone who's listening right now is This is the world we live in now until the FAQ comes out. We don't know what that world looks like Think about how you're going to respond to this. Think about your list. Think about your opportunities. Yeah, it might not be easy But new questions are now being posed. Right. Yep. Somebody asked me how I would fix changes Uh, for me, it's a really simple fix. Uh, the teleport uh is uh, you can't teleport out of combat That's how I would fix it. I would make it one teleport and you can't teleport out of combat Sure go from two to one. So it's basically becomes the the calibron Yeah, well, you could also do it like calibron where it has to be within a pretty short range of the hero Who's doing it too. Let's go back to the old what what about the old because the old um change host You just swapped two units across the board. So so it it gets complicated That's the problem. Like because then you start like the way you have to place units to make sure I find the same for sure, but at least you're not just literally picking something up and moving it anywhere on the board You'd have to actually get there first, but yeah Yes, make it make it. I would do something like this make it one teleport For a unit that's within nine inches of the lord of change and not uh, not within three inches of an enemy Sure. Yeah, something like that would be fun and that's exactly it's evidently fixable It's not like this is beyond broken. There are there are armies with built-in teleports all over the place Knight haunt have tons of built-in teleports. They're not breaking the bank calibron has a built-in teleport. It never you know It's fine. Like this stuff's totally doable Yeah, knight haunt has to spend a command point only around the general I understand. I'm just saying like there are dreadblade hero treks and stuff you can do, right Seraphons doing it. Seraphons doing it every night a week. Yeah, exactly. No one's like, oh seraphons are too broken because of this Yeah, there's there's funny ways. It could be restructured. Let's talk about that guild of summoners. We've got two guild of summoners players I like guild of summoners. I think it's pretty cool. All right, so guild of summoners is another one of the covens In this case, we didn't mention it, but obviously fate points for summoning are still a thing Like that's still part of what you do in this army. We didn't even talk about it. So every time I cast Yeah, yeah, every time you cast an eye cast successfully You gain a fate point right exactly and you can summon stuff. That's fine Like like lords of change cost 30 normally. So 30 spells have to be cast successfully between both players. Yep Craig Unless you're guild of summoners, and that's why I think this was so cool Like if you're somebody who has a bunch of birds, you know me. I love big monsters Like I love those. I love those big turkeys. So I think this one's great If your army has the guild of summoners keywords, your fate points can only be used to summon a lord of change lord of change units instead Of a fate point cost of 30 a guild of summoners lord of change cost nine fate points to summon the first 18 fate points the second and 30 each time thereafter. I think that is so cool Like get more birds. Maybe bring in the birds. Come on. So I was playing a game two weeks ago with at my local games club and The table next to me was a silver net versus a zench Battle and in turn one they had a new lord of change on the table Nice That's awesome. That's awesome. I mean I like I love this, but then I think about like Like I know that this is not a metric of power Like I think about one k games like team games where you feel one k or whatever. Sure. Yeah, and like Like in turn one If you do like two gaunt summoners two sets of like arcanites for your battle line um, you can literally jump to Like two thousand points In turn one because each of the gaunt summon pinks and then all of it summons A bird right have a battle we didn't have cogs again getting extra spelling there Yeah, it's fun. Like it's just It's fun and gross and then you get another then you gain a second bird then in turn two Yep, like you'll have enough cast to accumulate another bird And I mean the trick with the birds is they're not that hard to kill like yes, they're super powerful wizards Like they do get the built-in neg one to be hit they have the locus of change around them because they are zinz demons Obviously zinz demon heroes, but still their command ability is cool. It's basically just a bubble plus one to cast For that phase. So cool beings Right, uh, and then their command trait is if this gen if uh, if this general Is part of your army and on the battlefield at the start of your hero phase roll a die on four of you get a command point So it's one of those standard things we've seen that across all sorts of books recently where it's the four up for our command point and uh Basic and your artifact is whoever has the artifact makes units battle shock immune while they're within 12 inches of them cool I like this one if you like big birds like I like big birds I like big birds and I cannot lie and this is a way to get big birds out I like it. Yeah, this makes me want to run So there's a bit that the battalion is still in here for the I don't know what it's called Was it it was four like it was yeah, you had to have four. Yeah three all to change. Wow Omniscient oracles. Yes. So you've got three lords of change plus kairos Um, and its ability is silly. It's just you can reroll hit wound and save rolls of one for all the units in this battalion like Okay, cool This makes me really want to run that omniscient oracles in the guild of summoners So I can just like add a point and have like six birds on the table six. Yeah. Yeah, I could just say It's Like it's just super cool. I just love the idea of just having like six lords of change There was some artwork they shared in the lead-up to zinch That was just like a bunch of lords of change coming out and like fighting I think they were fighting like nergal forces or something But it was just amazing to see all the lords of change like some were coming out of portals And some were just like they're already on the battlefield And I just think they're like some of the most beautiful models like that or the new lord of change is You know like the second demon they remade I think. Yeah, and I just think he's gorgeous. He's such a beautiful model I remember seeing I think was steve ren maybe at um at uh south coast gt running that Yeah, like four lords of change or three and kairos and it was amazing to see on the table We don't see that very often, right, uh, and certainly if you go down that route Or less there's much less points for some of that broken brilliance that we've just talked about right exactly But this is pure fun like and you're still like don't get you know, don't don't mistake me here You've you've got some magic Sun look out because remember I mean when you sun and wizards you get to pick their spells then and These guys are magical powerhouses. So no doubt about it uh, all right What are there any are there any of the other ones tom that you want to talk about uh any of the other ones that you like For host sarkanum the pyrophane cult or the cult of the transient form Who do you like? I like the I like the host sarkanum, but I'm not good But I like it. I think they're actually kind of fun. Yeah, let's talk about host sarkanum. Go ahead walk us through it, man So the once for like the main ability is once per turn During the first the fit the third in the fit battle round you get a free unbind Like an automatic unbind. I think the spell scroll unbind Which is really interesting in the meta against like things like hollow heart Be sure like uh, you're not bridging this term. Right. I just want you to know that Yeah, like Guaranteed That's a non-starter for you Um And so I like that ability is the fun odd like the spell scrolls already always nice. Um, the command trait is really powerful Um, the d3, uh units that fly can move up to six inches pre-game Yep, so this get this can do that zoning and like You can actually get screvers Like a lot of them for a fairly affordable price. Yeah, screvers are not that good But they would be a great like even pushing one like full-size unit up the table like you're going to zone A lot of stuff out and protect your backline With that kind of pre-game And then I'll talk about I just like screvers like they're great models Um, I love the idea of like being able to summon a unit of six Like I was doing the math trying to figure out like what if I did like a full army of screvers Like literally all of the screvers It would first of all probably be the most expensive army in the game Um, because they're three models for 35 dollars. Right. Um But uh Like a max size unit of 12 is only 320 points. It counts as a battle line here And like what really hurts you is their base size, but that like that's 36 wounds for 320 points on a 16 inch move Um, it's not bad Um, but again the commandability is like Is a rend and uh a save so moves up to a four up save 36 wins with the 16 inch move. Yeah, um, I don't know Like it's not it's not awesome, but it's not bad No, like It it is a fun army that I would want to play if if those other two covens didn't exist This would be cool. Absolutely. But but if the obr it is that if petrophics wasn't around That null myriad would be awesome, right? Like there's some other really cool builds It's just unfortunate that we've got two particular covens. That's just Too good to not go down. I agree. But to me, this is like This one i i'm so glad to pick this one tom because you know My love of those stupid manta ray land shark things Goes back years. Say in here. Yep. Yeah There you go. There they are. There they are Look at these bad boys swimming at you coming at you hot Um, I have a unit of converted zinch baron guard, which are big heavy knights writing those things. Oh, nice Okay, um, so I have three normal baron guard and three on streamers um I Love I like these. Uh, I have converted zinch chariots where I replace the horses My goreby's chariots are all being pulled by streamers instead of by the big dumb, you know monster Like I love me some streamers And the fact that this one has so many cool ways you get a summoner free unit of them You have a command ability to make them stronger like This one is cool and it isn't as Completely locked into one thing like the the auto disbell is a cool fun ability. Like I actually really like the host arcane. I might agree Um, I think this is cool. So let's talk about some other war scrolls Let's uh, let's get into some individual scrolls because we talked about the broken ones. Let's talk about them screaming Uh, I'll I'll lean up. My wife was just texting me and complaining that I'm somewhat off-screen um All right, so the screamers is each 16 inch move three wounds five up save 10 bravery You get three of them for 80 80 points 8 and 35 dollars eight zero. Ah, what's real life money? Look money go money comes money goes. Okay But screamers are forever All right Uh Nine wounds for 80 points Yes, nine wounds for 80 points on a 16 inch move Uh, it should be noted that normally their little bite is three attacks at fours threes no rend one damage All right Um, if they charge a monster their damage becomes d3, which is funny as they attach to the side of it and Suck on this what I just just what I picture happening there. They're doing that whole like Uh, they're like riding the big monster around And then obviously the as you mentioned tom the command ability and host arcanum can make these guys actually rend one These guys can also benefit from the some of the other demon stuff We've said like the plus one to wound Things like that could be on them. So that's pretty cool And of course they do still have the slashing fins thing Where after this unit has made a normal move pick one enemy unit Or roll one die for each model in this unit that passed across any models from that unit For each five plus that unit suffers one more to wound if that enemy unit is a wizard for each five plus It's d3 more wounds So let me just say that like so I I've run with this ability on my On x-rays And actually does like a support surprising amount of damage Um And with a unit like this it's like a 16 move that can get a six inch pregame move and host arcanum Um Like you could rely like you could reliably get these guys like across the table In over something that's like really valuable to them like a wizard And if you're rolling like you only need Two of your dice to go over an enemy wizard and have a shot of like removing them off the table Absolutely like you only need two of those to be five ups against the wizard an enemy wizard um heaven forbid like Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think that I'm I like screamers. I love them. I think these guys are awesome chap. Like these guys are some of the best like mobile chap Flying 16 inch that can tag people and deal more wounds. Yes. I'm in they're little shooting missiles I've got nine of them and I love that they they've got a little buff Yeah, because they weren't very strong in the last book as unfortunate that things like flamers and screamers Were really ignored at least finally got a little bit of diversity and they are a cool model as well. Absolutely Yeah, I wish uh, I wish that there was a good battalion for them Um, because like the battalion that's there is like okay Like it it lets them like, I don't know. It's weird It lets them like unbind like one unit and then possibly heal a debris wounds Or something I'm never going to do that. Like if I take a heavy army of these I just go change those Like I don't sound silly, but like changes is just better Well, and you can still yeah, these guys go and change those. So why wouldn't you? That's what I'm saying like like the thing that's for this army like for the aether eater host like Most of time I'm just going to take change it right because it's just better Yeah It's disappointing that like change those literally just dominates even with these guys. It's the go to uh, Yeah, I agree. I think it's cool that they have a role finally Yes, because I did roll run them in the old book and they were just There now they are this very cool heat seeking missile. They've also got a lot more board control abilities Um, they have a role to play and Let me just say the sixth that you summon with hosts are hot Is a nice potent force Like that's not an instant like six of these against the right target is actually really scary. Yeah Because six of these can get up on a like a monster space Right. Yep and start doing a ton of attacks that do a d3 damage. Yep. Yeah, and they still get to move Is you're setting up in the hero phase, right? Yeah. Yeah, this is the summer. Yeah, that's so many of six. Yeah, yeah Yeah, and but but that's not a normal summon. So they still get their move in the movement phase that follows The 16 inch move Um, that's correct. They don't it does not yes. So what tom's referencing here So let me connect the doctor right tom So your artifact of power in the host arcanum is once per battle at the start of your hero phase You can add one unit of six Screamers of zinch to your army Set up the unit holy within nine of the bearer and more than nine from enemy units And that's it end of text. So as of right now, yes, you get to set them up and then There they go Six of them go scooting off. And yeah, that's only like 160 free points But it's 160 free points of something that I think is good mobile chaff good wizard assassin good monster damage Like like let's talk about practically what this looks like like you could have the bearer of the artifact in changes Right sure Which also happens at the start of the hero phase. Yeah So you teleport your caster then you summon the nine And make it so that where they set up they can get there they can get their 16 inch move over Those six bottles can get over enemy wizard and when you throw six dice Statistically you're going to average A one five and one six which means you're going to do two three mortals to a wizard Yep So like you can on average Like have a good shot of a thing Of a foot wizard sure sure sure or like on average you kill a goblin wizard Yeah, take that goblins if you can get them But I'm more scared of monster wizards sure you come again it gets a troll hag good lord Yeah, yeah swing over the topper and then just And we do have a lot of monster wizards so we do And they have a three inch charge then too because they would swoop over with a 16 inch move and then end three inches out On this for the charge because they don't have fake ice But I mean like it's like I again, I actually like this Coming like I think that there's a lot of neat tools in it And it's something that like I would like I think would be fun to run now as of today. I basically sold almost all of my siege um but Like man, it's uh, like it is a neat and picing army Yeah, I'll say like of doing mostly screamers and and mix stuff like that. I agree I do want to talk about the big lord of change. Let's let's just hit a couple worse roles So he mentioned screamers which came up. Let's talk about the big loc wipe himself the lord of change, right? So he is what he is You know, he can fly. He's got a 12 inch movement 14 wounds for up save All basically the same He's nothing much to speak of in melee. You know, he he's okay. He makes him attacks. He does a little damage He's a giant bird. He's not blood though, so right cool He's a he's a big giant bird got it But importantly He has the following abilities So master of magic when this model makes a casting unbinding or dispelling role You can change the lowest d6 to match the highest d6 The important part of that text is that they added dispelling to the text in the catch up Right, so it becomes very easy for this guy to Dispel endless spells even easier as we'll hear in just a moment But even on the roll because you're always if you roll a four and two he rolled an egg Yeah, right And that's that's not even talking about like him having completed the agenda for plus one to cast or being in a host They get or coven that gives him plus one to cast or there are many plus ones to cast in this army as you might imagine Or he spends a command point and gets buff on the cast. Yep, that would be another one Sure, absolutely. There's there's just a lot of that going on, right? So like this guy can hit very high cast numbers. It's funny because it actually comes from multiple sources Like his own command ability some of the covens. There's just a lot of different little places the agenda and so on Okay spell leader once per turn in your hero phase You can pick one endless spell within 18 inches of this model. That endless spell is dispelled Just say good night, Gracie. Okay Uh, here's the insane thing about this Gentlemen, it's time. We need for us to talk about the power of the dark fire demon rift In zinch Okay Because this ability is what makes that spell bonkers So dark fire demon rift is a slaves to darkness endless spell, but there you could of course mark Many of the slaves to darkness casters zinch Meaning they can bop right on over into this army and bring with them an endless spell that they can summon no problem Well, you don't even need to do that. Let me point out just You know like for everybody's information Um the gaunt summoner. Yes in this book That has the zinch organized keyword also has the slaves to darkness and ever chosen keyword Correct. That's where I was going to go next. Yes, exactly. Um, it would be the same for I was going to say the exceptions You don't even have to worry about that are people like uh arcane or the gaunt summoner who are already packing all the appropriate keywords base Okay So The dark fire demon rift the way it works Is you summon it within nine And then it flies to it's on a pretty big base. It's on the 92 mil Cav base It flies 12 inches Any unit that has models that it passes over any part of them and every unit within one inch of it when it lands Take a d3 mortals plus one Per wizard or endless spell Within 12 inches. Yeah That doesn't sound like that much But here's what I want you to contemplate Contemplate a world where there is a total of Five things that give that a bonus That's it five wizards and or endless spells. That is not hard in zinch Almost everything in this army is a caster if any enemy has any casters within 12. It's a huge bubble. It's not wholly within It's within Okay, so it's got this huge bubble on the on the table. It's affecting So let's say there's five things That's an average of seven mortal wounds To every one of those units. I played with this dark fire demon a few times and what I found is just like you just murder Normal heroes. They just dropped dead Because you've trotted out there and it's just like melt melt You know seven mortal wounds six mortal wounds nine mortal wounds. Okay, you're dead. Yeah, you're dead now You're dead Like normal units get or get crushed under this weight of this thing going going over top of them now If you depending on how the turn order is working You can either like if you think you're going to be able to move it again Next time because you're going to have the you know the priority to be able to move it Then you just let it ride and you move it again and watch this destruction get unloaded a second time If you don't if you because the thing is predatory Somebody's going to move it and they could turn it right back to you Right and you've got a lot of wizards and this thing's going to do a bunch of damage to you So instead you throw it out there and then you have one of your lords change go And pluck it right from the battlefield because unlike the spelling which has to happen at the start This is just a during just an ability. Yep Meaning they can trot it on out there Let it go let it burn and ate the countryside and then just go okay. Thank you. I'll take that back my toy not your toy Right And it's ever place common on steroids. Yeah people freaking out the ever place comment unbinding it or put it in your nullification We this is this is this is new leveled Ever place comment. Absolutely. Absolutely. It will hit in radius and deal mortal wounds that make ever blaze comments look like nothing Yeah, yeah Yeah, total What that what that means is like 45 wounds if you multiply times all the unit it hits, right? So it's it hit five units and did nine wounds Bang bang. Yep. There you go Math is real easy and it's not hard to hit that number of units because it's move It's it's radius of effect is so big. Yeah right Because it's trotting out 13 inches of effect of flying like to put it into perspective like I thought about taking this as my endless spell for ko first fell in a bottle just for like Dropping near zinge and shooting it off of the boat. Oh, sure. Yeah. I think this is a great spelling bottle choice. It's one of the best. Yeah Absolutely Yeah, or or again in the world of like fighting against hollow heart Is like spell the bottle can't be dispelled. Right. You could actually like Can't be unbound not it can be dispelled. It can't be unbound. Yeah Right, it can't be unbounded. It can be dispelled, right? So like you'll get it off. They can't stop it Right. Hello. Hello. How could he go over a five? Sure. Good. Yeah Hope for that five which by the way Uh, this is by the way why I also said, uh, I think fire slayers are one of the best tool to get them If you can fire slayers by the floor Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely And then finally he has spell thief where if he successfully unbinds an enemy spell with an unbinding roll of nine plus Which again could be very likely in a world where he's re-rolling all this casting dice and Ticking his low dice up to mattress hywin Uh, this model can attempt to cast that spell if it is possible for it to do so for the rest of the battle So, yeah, cool. He can steal all your good toys. This is mine now Uh, and then class lee still has his infernal gateway, which does a lot of damage Uh, and so on and so forth like it's just a big mortal wound Everywhere and and his command ability is what it always was which is plus one to cast. We talked about that Yeah, the bird is for real. Have you heard Bird is the word and that wrote a sorcery. He's shooting attack is pretty solid as well The 2d6 attacks. Yeah on threes and threes and nine one one Yeah Let's him let's him do a little bit of cleanup. Yeah, yeah Why not? All right, uh, we need to talk about zanis. Let's talk about them zanis. Shall we I didn't realize they're in this book Absolutely. It was like the slanish book where the mortals were outside of this book. It's uh Because no one's talked about them at all chirp chirp. Yeah, so let's talk about them zangors So obviously we have multiple different types of zangor. We have them We have regular zangor. We have zangor enlightened enlightened on discs shamans skyfires You know all sorts of fun stuff, right? Um points wise the thing that's relevant Is the enlightened on foot are three for a hundred. What's up? They're so expensive. They are they're just so expensive. The ones on foot are like pretty outrageously expensive The enlightened on disc for 180 the sky fires are 200 uh, and your regular zangors are 10 for 180 They are still battle line and they are two rooms apiece, but they are 10 for 180 And then your shaman Is 150 I think the zangor need a little bit of like I could see sky fires going down. I could see sky fires be like 190 180 And thank you to my lovely wife for that comment. I'll get a message you back That's mean kathy No cheer for you. That is harsh All right, uh, I'll try to pep it up some dear. I'm sorry. Um Yeah, what do you think anthony? What do you think about zangor? Especially our ones on disc Um removing that that demon keyword and like full reality interactions and uh They're just not as enticing. They're really not enticing. There is almost no world that I see in where I want to take these Maybe in like with with beast of chaos, but It's hard to justify now Which is ironic considering they're in the the the battle box that they just released not long ago, right? Yep, like you'd expect these guys to be good, but I think there's been a couple of changes that Um, I mean, how do you go to them compared to demons? Yeah, I mean, that's my view. I agree I think right now the problem is like things like sky fires part of what made them so scary wasn't just their abilities It was also like the the reality the fold reality you mentioned So fold reality is a spell that lets you basically blink a d6 demons back into existence Yeah, but you know that's gone now before them because they're not demons anymore Zangor's used to be really hard to pull down especially when you do a combination of Uh in light and and regular sky fires and they come in and attack at the same time They've got some good shooting abilities and then when you finally bring them down Apply fold reality and all of a sudden you it's round two round three That was always the challenge even in like is it the zango cover where they're in? um I don't know. Tom, I don't know if you've made any list with them I'm not impressed with them in the new book, right? I probably I actually like so zango is what I wanted to play um, I have like 18 Uh zango on disc. I had I you know like between all my stuff I doesn't matter between 20 and 30 zango on foot But I had all the I had all the toys and I've run a bunch of lists And I couldn't find anything I have to do with some so I've sold all of it so um I just uh I'll if I end up like if the next time in others each book stops in three to four years Maybe I'll pick it back up Well, it seems to be the cycle demons modals demons modals, right? I mean, I'll tell you what honestly my only issue is so like I'm I feel like the zango cover could be fixed With like a single faq that says oops. We're sorry. We forgot something in a printing So the zangor coven Is two units of zangor Okay, got it. Cool. Those guys are battle line. Sweet as well. They double the size. Yeah, I understand. It's tubes. I'm done I'm getting there two units of zangor. I'm saying two. You're right. Used to be less. I am saying two, right? two units of uh Of zangor sky fires, which okay Cool. I dig that that's fine and two units of zangor enlightened and the first time I read it I was like, oh, yeah, that's everything I would want and then I realized that they didn't bold zangor enlightened Which means they're talking about the guys on foot Because the actual unit name is zangor enlightened on discs of zinch They would have needed to bold that for it to be the guys on the disc Which just seems like such an awful waste like Who wants to run the enlightened on foot four four troop units? Yeah, but you want you want all the discs Yeah, that's the cool part about this army. Like I want to get a bunch of disc dudes. Yeah But not only that like let me point out that like so a unit of 10 zangor like in general I'm gonna want 20 because I don't trust 10 right which is 360 720 Right, right. So that means that I do both of those two units zangor as 20s In men size everything else. I'm at 1500 points before I get my shot And my and my third battle line because I still have to fit another battle line Yeah, so if I want to go pure if I want to go pure zangor, I'm basically running This battalion with two units of 20 zangor on foot and then everything else mids Sure, so two units of three men like two units of men three skyfires One shaman and one unit of 10 zangor That's it Yeah, see I'm actually Sure It's it's heavy. You're not gonna use summoning You don't get to use any of the demon keyword abilities and there's not really a good like the irony here There's not really a good actual full like a chamber for them But Is the chamber that's supposed to be good for them are the ones where you have to mix in care of acolytes Well, see my ideal list. I mean, I'll tell you right now tom the list. I want to run Is sure the the perfect world for me would be zangor coven They they fix it in the FAQ and go whoops zangor enlightened was supposed to be bold. We just forgot that bolded thing Okay, okay, great. Yep. So, okay, great. So I can use my enlightened on disc, right? Uh, so Which are very expensive. I understand the I understand the cost thing, right? Sure Two and then like I'm talking about my perfect list. We two tenors of zanis on foot Okay, I don't care about them in ten packs Two minis of enlightened on discs two minis of skyfires on discs The battalion and an arcanite cabal battalion because the arcanite cabal battalion Is three to nine models in any combination chosen from fate master magister bold and the zangor shaman Right, what's for the panel line? Uh, a third unit of regular zangor probably in there like that's probably the the totalist something like that some other battle line Um, that doesn't fit right now That doesn't fit right now. I think even in men's it doesn't fit. That's the problem I think that sounds like a super cool army and no part of that sounds powerful Right, I just wanted to run like I just wanted to run all zangor and like the only way to do it is for me to run the Phantasmagoria, like yeah, how do you run all zangor if you want all zangor? Yeah, you just use the phantasmagoria out of out of uh, visa chaos. Yeah Yeah, yeah, like that's how you do it because uh the zangor coven like it just I don't know. I I was super like I was I wanted to do zangor zinge army and like I just I can't I couldn't rationalize it with the other armies that I have and everything else so I sold all Sure I mean, I'll say the zangor coven has a real good ability Like its actual battalion ability is strong Yeah, uh at the start of your hero phase pick one friendly unit from this battalion other than three inches of an enemy That unit can shoot or fight. It's almost like you want the the sky shawl and the zangor to switch Yeah, you want this the sky shawl um Unit selection with the zangor coven rules Right, so you can have your your big blocks of sky fires. Yes with that shoot or fight. Yeah, um I agree Yeah, I don't know Yeah, because yeah, the problem is none of those None of the I think the other really interesting thing that works against them here is the fact that like Your regular zangor battle line cool But like none of the enlightens enlightened on discs sky fires None of them have a way to even like Optionally become battle line In no host no coven No, if this guy's a general not if the shamans a general just like it's so weird That all of those guys just became second-class citizens Because this is a fairly expensive army in a lot of ways right a lot of your things are are expensive because they're spell casters And they're mobile spell casters you tend to be tough um uh But the the issue is Those guys just don't make the cut often because of that. That's a real shame Are they just moving the beast of chaos now? If I if I if I'm one of these players who has a whole bunch of zangor Am I going down beast of chaos as opposed to zench? It's certainly easier to fill the battle line and do a one drop as a phantasmagoria Right and by the way, you could still just play that as a zenge allegiance Right like that's what I'm saying like you don't need to be beast cast legions. You can just be full zenge Full on right and like you get all the rules we've talked about in here all this stuff But you could ignore all these other battalions And actually have like little cheap on gore's and streamers and all that kind of stuff like it just it opens the door It's a legion of grieve It's a bad rule for zenge. Yeah, yeah, sure Like phantasmagoria is an unbinding and you don't want it like you're actually working against your commander Your uh, I don't know. I just like yeah that was down for me like The ballad stuff was bad, but this is what like made it said. I'm like, I just I'm gonna get rid of my old hunts each Sure. Yeah fair enough. It didn't it didn't it didn't hit you. Look you've got plenty of projects And you've got pointy elves coming up. Tom. You didn't need those. That's fine. I know. I know. Yeah Exactly less than t-minus Uh, 28 hours until pointy elves my friend and I've got my gogons coming Yes, the suns the giants They're on the way they ride Um, okay I just wanted to real quick hit on the changeling and then if you guys have anything you wanted to talk about I was gonna say the changeling as well. But yeah, good call out. I think the changeling is awesome. I think you're gonna see him So notably The changeling is a demon. He is a horror. So he does fit in change house since he is a horror hero as we mentioned And he is a wizard The changeling is I didn't remember his points. Do you remember what his points are? 120 120 for the changeling cheap as chips So move five wounds five save five Consistency that's what we like around here Okay, uh, he has attacks. There's nothing to speak of His ability now let's talk about his abilities puckish misdirection In the enemy hero phase you can pick one enemy unit within nine inches of this model If you do so until your next hero phase subtract one From hit rolls for attacks made by that unit and have the move characteristic of that unit So pretty good Pretty good. It's just a little sort of a little quality. So arch deceiver At the start of the first battle round after armies have been set up But before the first turn begins you could remove this model from the battlefield If you do so at the end of your first movement phase You must set this model up again anywhere within your opponent's territory more than three inches from enemy units Okay, so he just Disappears and then ends up over on their side. Yeah, which is a little bit different to how he interacted previously. Yep So that's awesome And it's at the end of your movement phase when you set him up Which is relevant because he is also a wizard, but he's not just any wizard He's a double caster This model is wizard It can attempt to cast two spells in your hero phase and unbind two spells in the enemy hero phase It knows the arcane bolt and mystic shield spells In addition while this spell is within nine inches of an enemy wizard It knows any of their spells that are on their worst roll possible for this model And it can also curse the unit with neg one to hit and half move So that's pretty good Pretty pretty good Tom, what are your thoughts? I like him for what his cost Yeah, he's good I think we're to see this do a lot. I mean it is a cheap double caster with some versatility That's the reality And i'm happy too because by changeling I like the new changeling and he was a model that I actually spent a lot of time painting I really love this model. He's like picture the new model is awesome It's beautiful. I was just looking and I was gonna I was about to set a coach's challenge But I can't do it. I was gonna say I will give somebody a prize if they could hand of dust somebody with the changeling It'll be a bit harder because you gotta be within three inches of it, but Oh man, do I want to see somebody steal hand of dust from negash and just be like curse of years There'll be some pretty cool spells. You can pull off with that Anybody if you if you hand of dust a negash off the table with the changeling You have to set up nine inches away from the enemy. No, we have to set up three inches away from the enemy. Yeah And you're gonna be within three to cost so you but You you have to be more than three And it's within three to hand of dust. So you need to like Bail wind in order to give that extra six inches Well umbrus bell portal or or portal or he could just like The promise or he could just he'd have to walk up and be that close. Yeah Right and which is tough like not that is they not use his setup tricky. Yeah, I should walk All right, coach's challenge. I will give someone a prize if they hand of dust Anybody who hands of gusts who who kills negash with his own hand of dust with a change Like if you can if you can make the complex series of events happen I'll I will put a price. I'll put a good price for that. I I will support that price I'll chip in for it too. I'm in show us some verifiable proof and I support that I am all about that all right, um Anything else? I mean, that's that's really most of the stuff we've talked about, you know, there are other battalions lots different combinations I think we hit on most of the big ones Now multi-tune this, uh, host, let me just do a shout out like he really rail on Change host. Yeah, sure. Uh, but if anything is gross multi-tune this host qualifies Because every unit returns a d3 horse to the unit. Yeah, so it's a unit. It's a changecaster and eight For like eight units of course of zh which start as pinks like you could start as pinks And even if you're down to like brims, you're always returning a d3 pinks This is mostly your army if you do the multi-multitudinous host though because it's 1600 points in pinks men, yeah Plus the sure plus the changecaster who I think is a hundred. Is that right? Yeah, it's not like that Changecasters 110. Yeah Okay, 20 points obviously. So so here at 1600 1710 Plus the multitudinous at 160. You're at 1870 You got 130 points of whatever else you want in the army. Go nuts It sounds like you need a changeling For a double caster. Sure. Um, yeah So that you're now up to 12 spells around Uh, you also have 400 wounds of course Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes Yes, you have 400 wounds of course And the way to play that by the way is to not do all Uh, pinks because you don't have to do no, no, no, I understand I was saying on your situation where you're trying to cast it as all pinks. Yes You can take this a lot cheaper because keep in mind You can get the blues for 100 and the pink or the sorry the brimmies for 60 So it's not like you have to take it that way. I was just sketching your world tom where you're like returning pinks all the time starting with maximum pinks, right? Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, I guess it's because it's slain models Correct, you couldn't buy units of blues and return pinks. No because it says you return d3 slain horrors Yeah, so like they whenever it uses that verbiage you have to return a thing that existed in the unit to begin with Yeah, that's unfortunate Um, but that being said what that would mean is that like let's assume you lost some wounds out of all eight units Every round Okay, just don't assume that just for for for for giggles Let's assume you lost some wounds out of all eight of your pinkies every round You would be on average with the ability there adding 50 wounds per hero phase to your army It's it's grave sides on steroids Untested by the drug commission. Correct. It's good luck It's only zoning that one out. Yeah, it's an average of 50 wounds getting added to your army every round That's pretty decent as things go. Yeah And I love that this is the one that we didn't look at Right because it's just like because in the end it's two this one would be really scary It's funny how the things in a battalion that can really matter if that was like three units of horrors instead of eight It would suddenly be like whoa This thing got way more interesting ironically the ability that setting the bar that much higher in the base buy-in Makes it Not as appealing as a good choice, right? Because you could see people taking this kind of thing as a component Of a different army as like part of a two drop where they use this and one of the other similar hosts for a 2000 pointer Yes So there you go All right, the other shout-out I want to give real quick is there's a lot of abilities in this army That's summon chaos fun. Yes Like a disproportionate number of abilities that do this From the burning sigil and the spell to like war scroll and the spells where what they do is they do like a d3 mortal winds And if they kill any models you get a whore unit and it would be a like if you're in duplicitous like until they kill that whore They can't retreat Yep And so it adds just some really interesting uh like fun silliness um Yep, so It has like all we'll say is this the the skill ceiling on a z charme is almost unlimited like And what I mean by that is like for really good players You're going to have all the tools you need to win events. I agree And even without the broken stuff like even if all the crazy has been dialed back There's just so many really good tools in this army. I agree to Suggest to to give you everything you need to always have an answer to a problem. Yep My personal hope is some of this gets corrected in the FAQ Let's make the proper changes. We know that this is a problem. We've gotten lots of feedback Come on. Let's just go ahead and dial it back now before people get too deep into it Because the problem is if we don't do it now, we're going to do it in the ghp And then people are going to be committed to armies and you're really going to burn Right. We know this is a problem fix it now. This army has good bones. It's a strong foundation It's highly competitive without that broken stuff. Just get it fixed now So my advice is for people to put their feedback into the community team. Yep to get that feedback changed. Yep Yeah, that's the reality It's so good Yeah, I you know, I hope that uh, but I've never let me say this Um, I wish I've never wanted to not be right But this is one of those instances when we called the prediction show on Zeench and KO that I just wish I'd been wrong I understand I still think I'm gonna be right because I said Zeench will be more powerful at first been the long run KO will Prove to be more powerful. I just need the really long run Like after all the inevitable nerfs that'll happen the fourth book Well, like you're you're you're ish year and a half from now ghp 2021. Look for that. Look for the tide to turn All I'm saying it's happening. Hang in there KO. That's right. Hang in there guys Or float in there as it were get on your boats and float Float away from me float away. All right So that's it. That's each it's a lot of fun. I do like this book I'm excited honestly just to be what this may be excited for even though a lot of stuff is demon heavy Is just to get out. I have a whole slaves to darkness Zeench army I want to run them under the Zeench allegiance and start bringing in some demon stuff here and there Um, which I think is cool. Like that's actually what I'm most excited for You know, I've been so uh, I didn't sell all my things. I actually have nine sky sharks But I haven't sold yet. Oh like the the oh really? All right. Well, hit me up. I'll take your sky sharks. I need more sharks actually So there we go. All right for all of you. What do you think of the book? Do you think this is going to be broken? What do you predict is going to happen at can con? Will Zeench take can con that is the question will Zeench take lbo the one tournament report We already had where the new Zeench was on there Uh, it took second third and fourth Hmm And the tournament from last weekend Was that the ogre's came first? Yes ogre's came first and then it was like two three four two three four was Zeench Uh, and then I remember what fifth was but yeah two three four was all Zeench. So Yeah, you know That's the world we live in Yeah, this is this is a long game. This is You know, it's new that cuts both ways. That means your opponents don't know it But it means players don't necessarily have it on the there as well. I'm going to be interesting to see we've got This is a big weekend. We've got More than 400 people. Yeah, right. Yeah, uh, I just want to give a shout scott to of aos at lbo Best of luck my dude. You always run an amazing tournament. Everybody's going to alo to lbo Please do give scott a hug buy the man a drink something take good care of him If you're coming to can con say hi to me, I'll be there We're going to be doing the reporting all weekend. I'm really helping rob. I am super thrilled to be down here Thank you to anthony for having me over here. My man. This has been great. Thanks for thanks for hosting me I feel like i'm legit now You don't need me for legit and hey, we didn't we didn't cut out. So I didn't have to cost you change. There was no cut outs That's a that's a real win with this show. That's for sure I'm sorry that tom sound is a little wonky and we couldn't get it fixed any better than that But uh, thank you all for sticking with us when you did if I could summarize what tom said basically he created all the lists And uh, whatever happens at lv on can con is because he had created that list already right also He called it. He was right. There you go. That's that's tom's final thoughts See there you go, he agrees. All right, it's all of you who are out there watching Thank you very much everybody. We certainly appreciate it as always. We'll see you next wednesday Bye. Bye. Gotta get my mouse over here now