 Oh, right. Welcome back everybody to our next session for the day. We are day two into our conference sea change life worlds and ecological upheaval. This is the 39th annual conference for the Society for the Anthropology of Consciousness, but our first fully virtual one. It's been a wild and fascinating ride so far. A quick land acknowledgement I'm speaking to you today from Portland, Oregon, which rests on the traditional village sites of the Multnomah, Kathlamet, Clackamas, Chinook, Tualatin, Kalupua, Malala and many other tribes and bands as the original caretakers of this land. We wish to begin our time by acknowledging their presence, their dignity, their continued struggle for respect, restoration and reparations. I'm here today because they were here first. I'm here today speaking to you because they were displaced from this land and it is the goal of this organization to do our part to help rectify that through these sorts of dialogues. A couple of quick announcements about the functionality for attendees. We are in a Zoom webinar, which means that only the presenters have their microphones and their cameras on. If you want to interact with us and or the presenters please do so via the chat window please turn that on as soon as you can because we're also going to be posting a lot of information in there about upcoming sessions and other things about the conference and so have that chat window open we had a very lively chat discussion in the last session and so it's a great opportunity to kind of speak with one another and post ideas and things that come up as you're listening to the presenters. For questions we would like it if you would roll over that Q&A button at the bottom of your screen and put your questions there the reason is is because the presenters can see them and work with them and we can as well if you post them in the chat box which is fine. The chance will miss them because so much else is coming up in the chat box and so try to get the questions in the Q&A, and if they end up in the chat that's fine. There is a live transcript button right next to that right to the right of that and that will give you these very imperfect for folks that need to need that it is not it is distracting for some so you cannot turn it on or you can turn it off. And if it's helpful for you go ahead and turn that on but that is there's an option for you as well. The last thing I'd like to mention and then we'll get going is that if you would do two things if you click on. And as well you'll see a list of all the folks participating and it'll be broken up into panelists or attendees it might not be on your screen but if you can find your name and do one thing for us make sure that it is exact or as close as possible to the name that you've registered for the conference. This is why we're not here to kick anybody out but we just want to kind of keep tabs on who's in the room. So we can have an awareness of that. And then secondly you'll notice some of us have added our preferred pronouns to our name you can do that by clicking to the right of your name and clicking rename and adding that that's by no means a requirement but it makes the space a little more accessible. And diverse for everyone involved in safe space so with that, I'm going to turn things over to our conference coordinator Mark Flanagan who's going to kick us off with this session. Thank you so much and welcome everyone we really appreciate being here. My name is Mark Flanagan I am the program chair, and I've had the delight of reading all of these abstracts for today's panel. Today's panel is called resistance and reclamation indigenous people's responses to the changing ecology. So really fascinating dialogue that will come out of this. So without further ado, I'm going to turn this over to Micah, who will be introducing participants, perhaps saying a little bit more about the panel itself. So thank you so much, and we are grateful to have you here. Mark and Andy, I'm the volunteer chair for this panel which was sort of put together from different papers it wasn't organized as such in the beginning so, but I but I think it's I think the organizer did a pretty good job of putting us all in this space and I'm interested in seeing the dynamics that that come up as we go through our papers and have discussion. So that the title this panel is resistance and reclamation indigenous people's responses to the changing ecology. And recognizing unprecedented changes in global and local environments, changes caused many calls by other humans that have impacted this proportionally indigenous indigenous persons. And we're exploring here a variety of indigenous responses or resurgence as you might say to change, ranging from Siberian shamanic responses to climate change. This will be by Dr. Marjorie Bowser to Native American resistance to the access pipeline to Khmer rights and rituals designed to balance ecological disruption, and then indigenous reflections on disruption and chaos chaos during COVID-19. And I'll just briefly introduce each panelist as we go through through the session so our very first panelist is Dr. Marjorie Mandelstam Bowser, research professor at Georgetown University and a faculty fellow at the Berkeley Center for Religion, Peace and World Affairs. And entitled climate crises ecological upheaval and shamanic worldviews in Siberia and Yukon. So please take it away. Hi, and thank you for the introduction. I have got a little bit of a title change and it can everyone hear me is this working. So, let me, let me explain my title is climate crises and shamanic worldviews in Siberia and beyond. I'm going to be doing a little bit of comparing with them or Indian issues but not as much as I'd originally planned. And my nickname for the title is fires bears. And it was disoriented spirits until I consulted with some Sahab friends and colleagues and they said no no it's the humans who are disoriented, not not the spirits. So, that we can consider as a kind of problem problematic issue to perhaps return to let me begin by saying that the devastations of climate crises have snared and particularly affected indigenous peoples worldwide, including especially in the Arctic and my talk focuses on wide ranging ramifications of development disconnections animal human relationships in Siberia, with some comparisons to Amerindian communities forest fires and floods. And I'm, yes floods, let me get back to the flood. The fires have been increasing spring spring flooding on the rise and forest fires floods bears birds spirits have been playing leading roles. And while the observations and dramatic narratives featured here may appear eclectic I'm arguing that at least some of their underlying logics and interconnections converge. I begin with one of the many seemingly miraculous narratives of of the Sahashman Nikon from the Soviet period. Let me show you Nikon I'm not getting my slideshow clean. Let me try this. Well, I think we're going to live with us some side pictures as well. My, my Nikon narrative. It comes from this man here who I'm hoping you can see at least a little of he practiced healing and other shamanic arts and secret for a wide circle of community members he One day Nikon was visited by agitated local Communist Party officials, not his usual supplicants but people who were themselves Sahar, also called Yakut. And they were quite desperate because a nearby village was threatened with an out of control forest fire. Although they did not have much hope they begged him to please try to put out the fire which is threatening a nearby village. He offered them tea and went outside to fetch some water when he came back with a hot kettle they were beside themselves don't help us. It's more important to put out the fire. Don't fret he answered I've already sent a rain cloud over the area and it's raining there now. Well what did he done. According to my Sahai interlocutors he had gone into a kind of controlled trance without using a drum or a full science and certainly without shamanic regalia. He'd managed to contact animal helper spirits one of whom was probably a bear who brought on the much needed rain. By 2002 Nikon's protégé Fedot, aided by Nikon's spirit, was already said again to douse the forest fire near the village of Jemcon with hailstone in the nick of time and here it was it was more public knowledge that this had happened. Whether we take such narratives literally or not several interpretations and ramifications follow at minimum such stories. And I'm problematizing the issue of the word story as the panel before me did as well, told us valid history valorized shamanic worldviews and they discredit Soviet propaganda and the officials who spouted it. They helped to explain why Siberians are fascinated by but concerned about unintended side effects of seeding rain clouds using airplanes. As elsewhere the connection between shamanic actions and weather control has been affirmed or more often rumored by Sahá through many generations. The shaman to brag about such powers were and are said to lose their abilities. The value of shamanic modesty about their attunement with nature was and is key to their spiritual success. Crucially in the Sahá language the word for nature has its root in the word spirit. In 1992 the late shaman Vladimir Kondakov who you see on the screen founder of the Association of Folk Medicine, ruefully confessed to me that he had once been attuned to weather patterns and their electrical current. Once a gentle rain had briefly consecrated his opening prayer at a summer solstice festival ceremony. And his spirit connections were able to divert heavy rain clouds from a ceremony that he was about to perform. But after he boasted that he had stayed off the, staved off the rainstorm he was never able to do it again. Further consideration brings us deeper into the realm of spiritual connections with nature and the need to suspend judgments that juxtapose scientific reality to miracles. In this interpretation shamanic spiritual connectedness is a phenomenon that may well earn belated scientific explanation and accompanying terminology in the future. But has for centuries been dismissed and denigrated as superstition demonic or at best a parallel but lesser traditional knowledge system. It's only an indication that traditional ecological knowledge take my converge with scientific systematic and logical experimentation and observational approaches comes from what we're learning about the interconnections of trees, their undergrowth their And this has been made famous by the under and over stories of ecologists Suzanne Samarit and brought to life in the novel of Richard Powers to preview my conclusions ecological and cosmological explanations work at different levels and various times and synergistic circumstances. Acknowledging this makes the possibility of open minded convergence of scientific and indigenous world views plausible. Such conversions may be crucial for healing ourselves and mitigating disaster in our Anthropocene Anthropocene times of rapidly saturating climate crises. We get now more into the contemporary ecology in Siberia, a country wide fire ban in the so called Federation of Russia augmented in 2015 after disastrous fires in Harkasia shows the extent to which local knowledge of ecological systems has been suppressed in favor of general rules that reveal this understanding about indigenous fire care and logics. In the Sahara Republic, for example in Oimea Khan, a competitor for the coldest inhabited place on earth, local Sahara and Evian have long used the refined observations of spring weather patterns to burn tiger areas near forests with minimal danger and maximal use of safe wet conditions. And I'm getting a lot of this from the scientific data of my friend and colleague indigenous scholar Vera Soloviova. This has helped prevent notorious zombie fires now I did not make up this term couldn't have made it up that can spread even in winter smoldering under the tiger erupting uncontrollably in summer, especially in areas where brush has accumulated without appropriate controlled culturally sanctioned conditions, and with the acceleration of climate change exacerbated by arson, plenty of it and greed fires in Siberia have been particularly destructive in the past several years. This in turn has contributed to destruction of pastures for horses and cattle depression of village economies, and exodus of youth from the villages to regional centers and the capital of Sahara Republic, Yakutsk. Modern post Soviet indigenous people in villages and towns do not universally acknowledge shamanic worldviews significant proportions of them have inherited and absorbed shamanic concepts spiritual concepts that make them receptive to traditional ecological knowledge, including adaptation legacies. An important indicator of this has been the rising popularity of Sahar shaman edgedora Kobyakova. And here she is. She's tall imposing yet kind. She plays sort of the, the part of an earth mother priestess. And since her first shamanic illness at age 11. She has acquired numerous mediator spirits for different purposes and various cosmological contacts. She has acquired birds swan crane cuckoo loon woodpecker and for the upper world and elk and bull for the Middle Earth and boss and duck for the watery underworld. She explains that she taps into the natural interconnectivity of humans flora and fauna. Teachings encourage Sahara to literally acknowledge their roots, since when each human is born they're said to be linked in spirit to a gendered tree and animal, often a bird living in that person's homeland. This is my system, she says, both who come to me for cures have special protection that derives from their land and their kin, their ancestors. So on the screen you see a screenshot from edgedora elder sister Doris 2021 New Year renewal address so she adapted in the time of coven and through YouTube to her followers she put out a blessing that many people truly appreciated. A poetic refrain during the blessing that says all of nature, meaning all of nature and spirits. She emphasizes the Sahara one with nature and an integral part of it, very normal part of what she says as she talks about being children of nature. We must be grateful to the keeper of nature, she says by and I may buy and I help you may you preserve yourself your land and in your locality may you cherish observance specific local observances of Sierra Tuam which is a kind of word for belief ritual system. We must give offerings we must feed the grandmother meaning a bed the river and the fire spirit. We must pray for curing of Sahaja at sacred places. This season sensitive renewal through a 30 minute blessing was meant to raise Sahaja consciousness and to arouse Sahaja to practice traditional ecological values including not sinning against nature. That is Dora with a supplicant. And I want to go on to say that such values have been long integrated into Sahaja and other indigenous Siberian practices rituals related to the gathering of herbs. My next slide is of Alexandra Konstantinova Chirkova from the northern town of Bella Agora. She's a healer shaman surgeon I have gone herbal medicinal herb hunting with her in the forest near the town of Bella Agora. And each time we bent to gently remove a plant we observed a moment of silence and gratefulness while offering a token gift, such as a coin or ribbon. Alexandra would speak of Sahaja prayer of thanks quietly each time. And as in many indigenous community contexts, Alexandra chose only plants that were flourishing leaving plenty of their kin behind and never taking more than absolutely needed for sustainability. And here's the daughter of famous Sahaja shaman Konstantino, who I've written about a lot. He, he, he practiced what Joan Cosciano and I have called radical empathy. Many of the values that are communicated through admiration for Konstantino and through Alexandra have also been particularly elaborately expressed and somewhat secretly expressed by northern hunters. In the Sahaja, Iven and Yucca gear traditions. They are mostly associated with male rituals with a few notable female and transgender exceptions in times of hardship. After killing whether by gunshot or trapping each animal expects and needs to be thanked and appeased in order for its soul to be willing to return to earth. This is the animal is given a nose rub offering of Greece or a drink of water, along with soul journey prayers. The concept of animal reincarnation facilitated through appropriate ritual is widespread in the circumpolar north. This is the apogy and bear ceremonies. There are very special animals that aren't supposed to be killed, but many of those who are not in this category are indeed animals that are perceived to be willing to give themselves up to appropriately respectful supplicant. The indigenous interlocutors emphasize a kindred interconnectivity of flora animals and humans that's being threatened by short-sighted regimes of land management insensitive to hard earned observation based traditional ecological knowledge. In the Sahaja and Iven communities of the Verkhoyansk region, serious contempt is expressed for outsiders who come to hunt for sport, sometimes shooting elk and wild deer from hired helicopters. So let me turn now briefly to Amerindian spiritual comparisons and my title for this section is called All My Relations. In Alaska and Canada's Yukon, similar tensions and hunting sensitivities abound, compounded by climate change, increased out of control forest fires and fear of energy development on sacred grounds, such as the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, home to the Gwichan. As famed Gwichan elders, Sarah James has insisted we're Karabu people. Karabu are not just what we eat, they are who we are. They are in our stories, our songs, and the whole way we see the world. Karabu are our life. Without Karabu, we wouldn't exist. This came up also in the ecology grief cafe yesterday as well. I want to feature a story here. Indigenous anthropologist Paul Nadasty in his very special essay, The Gift in the Animal, explains his own story that a wounded rabbit injured but escaped from one of his snares in the Yukon. Five days later appeared at his doorstep, miles away, willing him to kill it. Was this an uncanny prescience? Was it a case of animal human rapport tinged with mutual pain and regret? Nadasty sees the relationships of hunters and other than human persons as one of continual reciprocity, far familiarly symbolic, metaphorical, or anomalous. One should not think of the animal as suffering, but as a gift that requires thanks, and he sincerely gave that thanks, looking in the eyes of the rabbit in his arms that he needed to kill. Nadasty's confessions of the rabbit encounter elicited recent, not mythic, account explanations of people still alive today who had met animals in the bush who began speaking to them in Indian language. Some recalled Athabasca increased stories that were warnings for tellings of death. The valid warning Nadasty draws from his experience is that we as anthropologists should be neither embarrassed nor silent about such seemingly extraordinary experiences. We don't easily understand in Euro American frameworks. This is not romanticism, but necessary for pragmatic mutual respect and fair-minded anthropological knowledge attainment. Returning to the FEMA climate change crisis, including runaway fires and droughts and floods, we can reality check what other Canadian First Nations representatives are saying. By 2020, an Indigenous coalition on climate action was created, with a public statement heralding, Yukon First Nations declare climate emergency. Let me turn now to my conclusions. My personal alarm concerning climate change went off after witnessing a boat from a boat, the excruciating beautiful calving of a glacier in Alaska in 2009. After that summer, Iac friends already devastated by the Exxon Valdez oil spill disaster expressed further fears of mining, pollution ruining their salmon on the Copper River. They also worried about greenhouse gas emissions stoking climate change and curtailing their way of life. It was a blind moment with Iac leader Dune Lankard on the screen when an eagle swooped near us over Cordova Bay to catch mid-air a salmon bone skeleton that Dune had just tossed. Dune himself looked amazed. He was my salmon gutting teacher at that moment. He said he had never seen and had such an elegant communication and communion with an eagle. And my clan is eagle, he said. He wondered how long it would last. So for final framing, imagine a continuum where numerous mitigation management schemes might be arrayed on a kind of juxtaposition to indicate human efforts to adapt to climate change. For one end would be diverse indigenous concepts of traditional ecological knowledge, acknowledging the critical need for seasonal harmony, respect and integration with nature. At the other end will be big science and big business solutions, including shooting the sky with reflective particles, the so-called white sky approach. Wind and solar energy as well as carbon off that agreements based on the 2021 restored Paris agreement might be somewhere near the center, the mainstream of public interest. While not all compatible, many management possibilities could be explored simultaneously. Indigenous worldviews must not be left behind in our rush to create mega breakthroughs, Bill Gates' term. We lose indigenous locally based eco cosmological wisdom at our peril. We ignore the voices of indigenous healers, hunters and land stewards at our own risk. And I know I'm preaching to the converted here. I think world views that animate human animal rapport sustain the logics of controlled burns and valorize the interconnectedness of broadly defined living multiverses could have mitigated some of the worst disasters already apparent, such as runaway and fires are to keep ways glacier shrinkage and unprecedented floods at stake is not only our basic human rights principle that indigenous peoples have advocated from the UN to local community planning commissions, nothing about us without us. Also at stake our hopes for indigenous scientific cooperation on climate change that could enhance the difficult process of making our struggling earth safe for future generations. Okay, let me end just with a picture of a sacred mountain ceremony on top of the two amount of valley in Sahara Republic with a white shaman making fire offerings and young next generation participants. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Bowser. Let us move on to the second speaker in this panel, and this is Dr Lisa Rensen, assistant professor at the University of Brunei in Jerusalem in Southeast Asia. In the paper is entitled cooling the land environmental solastalgia and spirit worlds and the cool in plateau in Cambodia. So please take it away without further ado, Dr. Thank you, Micah. I'm going to share my screen. So as Micah just said my, my talk is based in Cambodia, and it's based on the gulen plateau. And that is a national park in Siem Reap province about 60 kilometers north of Siem Reap city and within the national park are nine formal and informal settlements, some of them with very long standing roots. This is an inset of the back southeast part of the mountain where the four villages that I'll be talking about today are located, and you can see from this Google Earth data that the landscape is highly agricultural. Even though it's a national park it's also been a worked agricultural landscape for centuries. And there's a fair amount of ongoing conflict between conservation actors and local residents about agricultural practices and conservation. So I've actually done research on the mountain with these communities for six years. But what I'm going to be reflecting on this evening, sorry, morning in North America is some reachers I was privileged to be able to do last year in 2020 because I was in Cambodia throughout the pandemic. And it's based on six weeks in 2020. And what I'm interested in from an analytical perspective is I've been thinking recently about the term or the condition of solid stagia and a very quick summary for those of you who may not be familiar with this. This is a condition that a term that was coined by an Australian environmental philosopher Glenn Albrecht in 2003 and 2004 that has been taken up by a number of disciplines as a way of thinking about ecological grieving. And it is a term to describe place based distressed when a landscape is transformed or destroyed and people living within it feel that they are have lost identity and control. You can see I'll just call your attention to the second paragraph where he says loss of place leads to loss of sense of place. I haven't used that much by anthropologists yet. And most of the studies so far case studies done this have actually been with post industrial societies, many of them in Australia. And one, one anthropological critique has been inviting people writing about solid stagia to make sure that they have a deep focus on the sense of place that in these ideas what is the sense of place that's being lost. What I'm going to do in my talk is give you the case study of some things happening on the land mountain, and then come back in my discussion section to whether solid stagia is perhaps a useful or relevant term to understand these events or not. So what is the potential sense of place for the residents of good land. It's extremely complex and multi layered question and I'm going to give you an extremely brief insight into that. This is a photograph taken by a French. This is a photograph taken by an ethnobotanist. Shortly before Khmerish gain control of the area. And this photograph shows the only access road to the mountain from the Angkorian period until just a few months ago. It's important to recognize that the Gulen Plateau was actually the site of the first Angkorian city Mahadran Parvata. So even back in the eighth and ninth century, the Gulen Plateau was a worked landscape and traces of that ancient archaeological heritage remain for people in the landscape today, both as ruins and as inscriptions and and some bastard leaf carvings as you can see in the photograph that are scattered across the plateau. The Gulen Mountain, the site of the National Park is the most sacred site in all of Cambodia, particularly for Khmer people, which is the dominant ethnic group in Cambodia and the site is highly sacred in terms of Brahmanism from the Angkorian period, from the modern and contemporary period, and also in strong animus and local and national traditions. And that is linked to the presence of what I am going to call earth beings. I'm following the usage of the anthropologist Marisol de la Cadena who writes about Andean Cosmopolitics. A term used to refer large sentient forces often associated with mountains and hills. Angkor sorry Gulen Plateau is still visited by many local tourists and as well as being a pilgrimage site. And living on the sacred mountain in the sacred landscape for the villagers. Any material, any transformation, the material landscape has implications for the landscape of the spirit world. So this is all me messing about with Google Earth, but this is a quick look at the secular topography for you. North you can see at the bottom of my screen is this is actually facing north west is to the upper left. And you can see that there is a ring road separating the villages around the top of the plateau. There's also a sacred topography that will be very familiar. This is zooming in slightly to one of the villages called Sankailat. And I've marked with you see my cursor Google Earth markers, three spirit shrines which are visible in the landscape. Anyone can drive by and see them and local people would make offerings at those. There are tutelary spirits for the villages that have permanent shrines in or next to the village and this is images from one of those. But during my most recent research on Gulen, our interlocutors told us that there's actually a very complex unseen invisible topography around this as well. And this is called the world of the autoplay. This is a Khmer term that sort of means the unseen or the unvisible so I'm just going to translate it as unvisible for now. And this is a fantastic map I made it without any reference to actual events or places that people took me to. This represents the different kinds of sacred landscape elements that my interlocutor shared with me. So there's some polygons on here and these represent potential wild spirit sites. This one here is an actual one the other two are just three are imaginary. People said you also must be careful to not accidentally build upon or try to cultivate spirit roads, which are represented by these orange lines I've made. They also mentioned it is forbidden to be along anchor in ancient roads which may be visible or invisible. And they also mentioned another category which was the idea of the water road. Similar a similar concept to canals. They said there are invisible water roads that are being sailed the spirit world are actually sailing upon in some phone and some phone is a Khmer term for like a small Chinese boat. This slide comes from somewhere else entirely. Okay. So my interlocutors explained that if you as a human bisect or hit against sacred objects and sites in the spirit world. There is often a consequence often an accident or an illness for the person who has committed those acts of trespass. This is a diagram that a traditional healer drew in the dust to explain to us how you might accidentally enclose a spirit road with the boundary of your farm which would lead to consequences for you down the road. There is a variety of ritual specialists on the mountain who assist in diagnosing and helping with sacred trespass. And here in this diagram I've just mentioned three of these categories again I there's not much time in this talk so I won't get into their roles, but there are diviners mediums, and a kind of ritual practitioner called the cru sada, which literally translates as the guru who blows wind. And this healer often leads rituals at the site of the trespass to try and cool the earth. The cru sada of Sanke Lat village is the man who is crouched behind the woman she is the village medium, and he's actually chanting and Palae and blowing on her to protect her before she attempts to channel a wild forest spirit in a healing ritual. So until quite recently, the road between the villages on the mountain has been in disrepair for a very, very long time and the mountain has been very isolated from lowland CMRI up in lowland Cambodia. And then there was a couple of other countries actually something I forgot to mention earlier is that about three generations back there was quite a bit of intermarriage between combined inhabitants of the mountain and the indigenous people indigenous people group, known as the Goy who live in northern Cambodia and agriculture in the mountain has traditionally been swidden rotating agriculture, which is very uncommon for my people but quite common in Cambodia for highland indigenous people. And that people the mountain have had to struggle with for a very long time and has made it quite difficult for trade and getting to clinics and schools. Currently, there is a large road project under construction that was approved by the government and is funded by a large private company. As well as widening and improving the road across the plateau the original road, they've actually made an entrance from the eastern lowlands, which is the first time in history that there is vehicle access going up to the east side of the plateau and this is a photo of that road from the top. In order to make the new road and widen the old road, the company dynamited boulders and bulldozed down trees along the edges of the old road. These are all acts of massive material alteration of the landscape. The new road is still under construction. After the bulldozing it very slowly goes through several phases towards a solid cement block. There is no There's no detours locals and outsiders have continued to use the road as it is the only road even more construction is ongoing. So what I briefly want to talk about is accidents happening during this construction period. And on this Google Earth project I've just marked three accident incident sites I'm going to speak very briefly about the two that are marked in red. So the first first deaths connected to the road happened in 2019. They actually happened on the eastern access road the new road, when a mini van with Chinese tourists visiting seem ramp it was a illegally traveling on the road it was not yet open for the public. And they veered off the road and the mini van rolled and ended up being three deaths from the incident. So from the perspective of the local mountain people and the local medium. The incident had actually been caused by the mini van disturbing a sleeping neck under the earth and the neck or the Naga and other parts of Southeast Asia is a kind of large serpent dragon. Local people explained that the new road had gotten quite close to the subterranean cave of the sleeping Naga. And when the mini van veered off the corner of the road, they accidentally pressed down upon the sleeping dragon which rolled in its sleep, hence rolling the van and leading to the death of the tourists. And some ceremonies were held on the spot and some shrines were erected there and the dragon was asked to move away from its home to deeper under the mountain. An accident that hit quite a bit closer to home happened unfortunately on the first day of January in 2020, when a mother who was traveling home from the only health clinic on the mountain with all three of her children on her moped was hit and killed by another local villager who was drunk the time of the collision. An accident happened between two of the old villages on the mountain. And it led to a massive outpouring of grief and concern by local families who need to travel this road every day on their way to the clinic and to schools. Buddhist monks came in and conducted ceremonies for the souls of the dead who had died violently, but also a mountain medium and she is the character in the bottom left hand side of this frame. She ended up channelling a grandmother numb, which means grandmother numb. She ended up channelling a wild forest spirit who was concerned about the accident. And the three village chiefs decided to try to host a ceremony where they would make a new spirit shrine for the wild forest spirit and ask the wild forest spirit would come and protect the road. Now this forest spirit was formerly unknown to the villagers. They did not know its name or its history until they talked to the medium while she was in her trance. The ceremony was held directly on the accident site where the mother and one of the children had died. And members of the community came and participated. In part of the ceremony, the medium went into a trance and danced in the spirit and blessed local people. And he was renamed from Tape who was said to have been an inquiry and military general to talk, which is means grant literally means grandfather of safety. In addition to asking him to change his name. He was asked by the villagers to change his very modality of dwelling to come out of the forest and the wild space to move to the road, live in a shrine and to protect the human inhabitants of that place. So the shrine is still next to the road and it is tended regularly by local villagers. Which leads me to my discussion in this photograph, you know, is dancing in the spirit, and you can see a lot of local children are gathered around watching. So the question that this brings me to is whether traditional ritual practice on the mountain is able to encompass and unfold the altered landscape and it's accompanying dangers. And what I want to do now is for the last three minutes and I'll just take one more minute to finish up is actually play you some thoughts on this matter by my my research assistant son so Pat. We taped this earlier in the day because it is two in the morning in Cambodia. Okay. So Pat, thank you so much for being willing to join me for a minute. To all of you listening to us. So Pat is my research assistant, and we've been doing research together for two years, and we work together on the mountain three times. So Pat, you've been really important as my research assistant and a translator for my students and as a cultural broker for all of us. And I know you were not there the week of the accident, but you've helped us do a lot of our research on spirit beliefs. And I'm very happy that you have agreed to share your thoughts about a couple of questions. The first question is, what do you think is the relationship between the development project of the road construction, and the world of the invisible world, we call the adult buy and come I do you think they do affect each other. Thank you. Thank you Lisa. Thank you for having me for today. Regarding to the question. I do think that's the relationship in development project with I will pay on the mountain. It's because I think the mountain lands, like cool and mountain is the most sacred mountain in Cambodia. And people who live on the mountain. They are believing in unseen so many unseen thing that living in the world, because through their ancestor, they already born and been practicing, I will pay from the beginning. So, connecting to develop development project that happening now in Auckland and mountains. It's, it's very important to connect the people to get involved in the development project. Because one it or not, in developing world, they might not think about what happened around that area, but people who live there, they are affected. They don't act right to what they're believing. For example, if they are moving the rock or start to enlarge the road, it affects too many, three minutes rock that most of people living there they think it's, there is a spirit who protecting them. So if they developing working on the side, but not really respect of what people believing on the mountain, it would be affected their, their life, because they feel like the area would be cursed by the spirit, because they didn't follow their tradition. So, on, on, on the other side of my, my opinion, because I grow up in, in the city. We, we, of course, we still do ceremony, for example, if you want to build a house, you still having offer for their lands. And this is what I witness in the lowland as I grow up in something, but for the people in the mountain, they are more, they are more believer on the out of play. And of course, I believe that there is connection between developing country and the other way, especially on the mountain. Okay, and so I will just end there. Interesting, you know, the name of our panel is resistance in reclamation. And I think what's interesting in these case studies is that the actor showing resistance was the earth dragon rolling over under the earth when the weight of the car pressed down upon it. In the second example, the spirit came to the scene afterwards expressing concern and then these complex and new rituals were made asking this wild force spirit to be reconciled with a domesticated lifestyle to protect the people from the road and the new dangers that go with it. I think it's worth mentioning people are very positive about potential benefits of the road, but of course they're also terrified of the dangers that it brings. And I believe I'll stop there. Thank you all very much. And we'll take questions at the end. Right. Thank you Lisa. Now it's I know I will it's my turn to present. Let me just set this up here share my screen. Okay, I think we'll have a lot of interesting things to discuss in the Q&A session a lot of cross paper. So I am Michael Morton I'm teaching anthropology and Southeast Asian studies at Northern Illinois University. And the title of this talk is ancestral presences. I amended a little bit here indigenous and non indigenous reflections on the arts of living and dying in the restorative age of COVID-19. The image you see here on the slide is essentially, this is an indigenous aca master ancestral genealogy picture, which is part of a neo traditionalist faction of aca who are engaged in an active sort of indigenous resurgence movement a cultural revitalization movement or vitalization woman I would almost prefer that language rather than revitalization. Thanks to some of the issues I'll be talking about in this particular context. These are the names of the sort of primal ancestral figures within the sort of connect together the larger community of some 700,000 aca residing throughout various parts of Southeast Asia and Southwest China. And the tiles on the bottom represent different clans and subgroups and so forth, but they're also tied together. And it's a really sort of striking visual example of where my dissertation quite some time ago focuses on the effort by indigenous aca to create a larger translocal identity that transcends some of the national but also religious borders that have that have divided this particular aca world in space in place. So let me begin the talk in this particular area. So, in this paper I reflect on the meanings and significances of what I refer to as ancestral presences with respect to the interwoven arts of living and dying and across cultural perspective. I found certain indigenous perspectives in my own life experiences as a non indigenous teacher and student in considering what I see as the great potential for a broader cultural movement of ancestral resurgence is to restore balance and sanity to the human and more than human world. The indigenous Tagara healer and shaman and teacher Maladoma Prachisome of West Africa, Burkina Fasa argues unless the relationship between the living and dead is in balance chaos results and quote. Now I want to begin with a quote from Italian anthropologist, Louisa Cortez is, and this is this is from a deep and moving reflection entitled what will it only become without its elders, and this is from April 2020. It's our elders taken away like the air this disease steals. This is COVID-19 obviously what we will miss the most once we emerge from this and start all over is our elders whose dedication is carved in everything we have to rebuild and quote. You know we are facing a global pandemic that is not only resulting in the loss of life especially among our elders but also disrupting everyday flows of social life the world over. On the other side the impacts of COVID-19 I say are dealing a serious blow to the now global and increasing the tenuous political economic system of capitalism and response, some of us are seeking out demanding putting into practice other ways of being that are more just equitable sustainable and humane. And this is in relation to the human but also the more than human worlds as well. Others are reluctant right to change are only further entrenching themselves in unjust inequitable unsustainable political economic systems and ways of life from which they nevertheless benefit or at least believe that they benefit. And I would say on the down yet upside, the impacts of COVID-19 are also revealing to many of us just how vulnerable and utterly dependent we are on each other and this more than human world. COVID-19 is also forcing many of us, I would say to reexamine the already uneasy yet often repressed anxieties surrounding how and why we relegate our elders and in some cases they relegate themselves to the sidelines of contemporary social life, whether that takes the forms of happy go lucky 55 plus year old communities in the US for example, where elders go to play for the rest of their lives if they can afford to do so, or a miserable and depressing nursing homes where they're simply waiting for the end. Now the sense of misery and isolation experienced by the latter elders, of course in facing them was only exacerbated by the lockdowns imposed on nursing homes, corresponding spikes in cases across the board of individuals infected with COVID-19 required to either self quarantine, or fight this invisible enemy from the sterile isolating rooms of hospital ICUs. Many of us are now more acutely aware of the need not only for each other, especially in facing the end but also for ritual right for coming together collectively to very least celebrate and more and more marking the passage of individuals from one social status to another form of birth rituals as baptism coming of age rituals, such as high school graduations or end of life rituals such as funerals cremations and burials. Now the forced and abrupt absence of these communal rights in our lives during the COVID-19 era, I believe has made all of us or many of us more sensitive just how important they are in our lives, and in the lives of our families and communities. To reference the late deceased, now deceased wife of Maladoma Prachi Somme, who writes about the centrality of ritual to the art of living and dying for many indigenous peoples. This is beautifully captured in this phrase here, a child in Africa is born with ritual and dies with ritual. Your life is committed to rituals. In addition, you're either doing a ritual thinking about getting into one in the middle of one or just finished. The purpose is to connect us to our own essence to help us tune into the collective spirit, or to men whatever is broken, whatever wires have been pulled out of one's life. So we can start a new ritual is to the soul. What food is to the physical body. In the West, this heightened awareness of and concern for community and ritual, further parallels a major resurgence in what I see as the search for ancestral roots and genealogies right that challenges these false yet very still widespread views of the West. As the best in a sense but also as an eminently modern space devoid of either kinship or religion. In the meantime, many indigenous communities the world over continue to find great meaning and strength in their sustained yet dynamic relationships with their ancestors. Even as they face great adversities in the respective decolonizing movements or indigenous resurgence is geared towards restoring vitalizing deep connections to place cultural community, inclusive of the ancestors. This image here is from a small rural village in Southwest China, I took the photo in December 2017, and it was a the first time in about 50 60 years that the villagers had carried out a formal ancestor offering in had at an altar, and then they had this this context right here in 2017, are eight of the elderly female clan elders who are seated around a table and the villagers will not be coming through shortly after I took this photo to receive their ancestor offering food from one of these various elders in this particular context. So it's a vibrant cultural vitalization movement that is taking place among indigenous archive should say in Southwest China. And it appears paradoxical that the more we humans are involved in each other's lives, the more effective we are in letting go of each other in the end, which for many is simply a new beginning. Now to expand on this I would say the more we are involved in each other's rights of passage through the life cycle within some sort of cultural framework. And more fully we are able to mourn and celebrate while marking the final right of passage of our loved ones. In a sense the more effective we are, even though it's so difficult in letting go of them and reintegrating ourselves and each other into the torn fabric of everyday life that are deceased loved ones leave behind. This is even as some of us continue to relate to them and their newly transformed status as ancestors. And this morning works of course for living and dying for celebrating morning various rights of passage that provide a crucial means by which we may truly come to know embrace mourn and celebrate the intertwined arts of living and dying. And this is kind of for me at least begs the question of whether the western desire to reconnect with ancestors is a product of this strong sense of alienation that many in the West feel with respect to each other, their elders and their elders turned ancestors. And this strong sense of alienation is most acutely reflected in the little or no space and time given to those who are dying, and to marking their final right of passage in the interest of keeping on in this great rat race of study work consumption endless achievement, which coupled with the doctrine of meritocracy and the American dream of course, I would say forms the core of the religion of American capitalism as we know it today. And those who are dying include not only the elderly and the sick but all of us, as in the words I'm going to refer to the Canadian spoken word artist Shane Cuisin, who writes you are dying don't panic. In this we are equal, regardless of race religion sex sexual orientation political linen preference of music or favorite shape of animal cracker, we are dying, our differences in thought manner and action cannot relieve us from the obligation of our death, unidentified or ridiculous dying will happen with or without our acceptance I would check out Shane's work sometime very powerful young man. In short, we are all living and dying. And whether acknowledged or not we and those we identify as our kin folk, emotionally and symbolically live each other's lives and die each other's deaths. And this is building off of some recent work by Marshall solans on kinship what it is and is not. And so it is more accurate to say the little time we give to each other is only amplified in the case of those who are more properly dying. And in relation to who's impending deaths we tend to have an origin sense of time. And it's perceived and now I want to go on thinking about my role as an educator. And to the past, well, not the past two years but two years prior to coming to Northern Illinois, I was teaching a large undergraduate course on death and dying across cultural perspective that the State University in upstate New York this is soon as we go. And in that in by teaching that class I learned from my thoughtful soul searching students that they often come away from the course with deeper insights into not only the art of living, I mean the art of dying but also the art of living. In one respects my students and I generally agree that our fears of death and dying are often rooted in a deep seated fear of not having truly lived failing to follow our bliss in the words of Joseph Campbell. On the flip side, many of my students stressed that their widespread lack of direct experience with the dying, and with death more broadly equates into a deep seated fear and denial of death and dying of fear. They concluded that ultimately prevents them from truly living when asked about the relationships with elders and ancestors many but not all commented that while their interactions with their elders were often few and far between. They generally had little or no knowledge whatsoever with respect to their ancestors, especially those predating their grandparents generation. Some had not yet attended a funeral smaller subset had yet to experience the loss of a close loved one in their 20s. Most noted they had had a lot they had lost a significant loved one as a child, most often a grandparent but many of them said their parents did their best to keep the reality of that loved ones process of dying and ultimate death a secretive and almost taboo topic in their best interest. For these students rather their first direct experience of death and dying often came about as a result of the loss of a beloved cat dog or hamster or some other non human animal. They further attributed the widespread and seemingly growing fear and denial of death and dying in a broader US society to an even deeper seated fear of being forgotten, either upon passing away, or shortly thereafter. In fact, one of our most one of our most lively class discussions that we had was one in which they shared their respective plans for living in a manner that might render themselves memorable unforgettable right to those. And we were talking about Robert J lift and Eric Olson's categories of symbolic and mortality biological creative theological, natural and experiential. We further discussed this in a more poignant manner while reading and discussing an immensely popular book by Mitch album called Tuesdays with Maury was reprinted the second edition in 2017 originally 1997. That book album recounts his last class on Tuesdays with his old university professor coach Maury Schwartz, who was dying from Lou Gehrig disease. Now apart from noting that either reading or rereading this book many of them have read this book in younger and younger days that it fundamentally changed their views on intertwined arts of living and dying. I found the new afterward to the 20th anniversary edition profound in highlighting that for Mitch at least what seemed to trouble Maury the most about his impending death in death was the possibility of being forgotten possibility of being forgotten. Another personal note in my own from 42 odd years of life experience as an adult child of divorce several times over an academic nomad, who has moved more times across within continents that I can count on my two hands. I've long been aware of the importance of community and its active regenerative ground of ritual performance in play. I've also come to mourn the urgent lack of elders in my own cultural upbringing. I always do the relatively early passing of my paternal grandparents, and the long term absence of my maternal grandparents who not unlike many others in their generation moved to Florida sunny Florida in search of a better life, hoping to leave their past lives and unfortunately many the people inhabiting those past lives behind them as well. Now the last area that I want to touch on is my interactions and interactions as a student with certain indigenous peoples who refer to themselves as the ACA. The people of the middle residing in the Sino Southeast Asian borderlands. I gradually came to see in practice and thus more deeply appreciate the crucial roles that community and ritual, however imperfect and contested play in providing a basic cultural framework for how to go about these highly intertwined arts of living and dying. In brief, the ACA is a Beto-Burman speaking group with long diverse histories of migration, settlement, community formation, currently number roughly 700,000 individuals residing throughout this mountainous borderland regions of North Thailand, East Myanmar, Burma, Southwest China, Northwest Laos, and Northwest Vietnam. And they refer to this region as larger region as the ACA world short. Now by directly participating in everyday life in the everyday lives of indigenous communities and households for whom extended intergenerational family living units are the norm, often with three to four generations present in the same household. I gradually came to appreciate the presence of elders in the lives of their descendants and vice versa, even as I witnessed, you know tensions and conflicts that arose within these intergenerational households were kinship as the mutuality of being operates at its best and its worst. Indeed many in the West vainly dismissed the power and centrality of kinship as mutuality of being in their own social lives on account of a widespread a perception of kinship, and we could say religion or even culture for that matter is not only of the past but also primitive, oppressive and antithetical to supposedly free modern self, even as they find that of exotic interest and occasionally worthy of study from a distance. Through my interactions with certain indigenous communities, I further came to recognize and more deeply appreciate the power of religion and its active ground of ritual when understood and practice this community work more so than orthodoxy to maintain transform and ultimately sustained relations between and among the human and the more than human worlds, even as it works to resolve the many tensions and conflicts that arise along the way. This community work is work in which everyone and I mean everyone participates in some way, whether it be young women cleaning preparing vegetables for a household feast young men butchering, distributing meat from a slaughtered water buffalo in a funeral context and elderly female shaman calling on the ancestor to help alleviate their descendants illness, or an elderly male ritual reciter priest guiding the deceased back up to the ancestral village. These practices which often take place in polychronic, rather than monochronic fashion, not only serve as public and symbolic manifestations of the larger social fabric and the geared sense but also serve to weave and reweave that very fabric in a matter that contributes towards the continuation of the lines in the indigenous soccer sense, even as individuals families and communities actively modify and adapt those lines to their changing circumstances. I would recall one aka elder, highly respected female shaman who I refer to as grandma's grandmother shaman is as I would in the aka language of recognizing her position but also the age status from a mountain village in rural north Thailand. Telling me and my wife one afternoon about her and her fellow villagers efforts to maintain in her words, they're absolutely vital connections to the ancestors by way of carrying tall and in the aka language, their ancestral ways, and thus maintaining the ancestral lines or lineages. Grandmother shaman further spoke with the many challenges facing her community as a result of the ongoing breakdown of their ancestral ways. She attributed this breakdown to a general loss of their autonomy in relation to the central Thai state, and also a rising intra village trend of outward religious cultural conversion, especially the different Christian denominations. As a result she commented, the village had been fragmented into distinct religious cultural factions, many of which effectively abandoned or discarded the ancestors and this she emphasized has had disastrous consequences for the overall health and well being of the community, inclusive of the more than human world. Now as a highly respected and often called upon healer regardless of you know folks even folks who had converted the Christianity often would seek her out. Catholic openly but if they were non Catholic Protestant they would do it in secret secrecy. She was well aware of the many challenges facing her community in the intertwined social physical spiritual and environmental factors contributing to the illnesses she was being asked to diagnose with the crucial help of the ancestors in her own parallel partner or husband that she referred to in the ancestral world that she traveled to or in the aka conceptions died to each time that she went into trance in a car this is new posture. In short, she asserted the larger village is no longer receiving its its absolutely vital flow of life giving energy or blessings in aka Goulon from the ancestors as a direct result of their abandon abandonment by many of the villages for grandmother shaman other other traditionalist in the village is the ancestors who when properly remembered and honored ensure their descendants received the proper proper flow of life giving energy or Goulon and thus further work toward all for counter the life draining of various hidden or unseen level enforces manifest an illness poverty and disaster. Now I don't have time adequate time to fully discuss this matter here, grandmother shaman and some of her fellow villages are working to redress these issues by both maintaining their everyday ancestral ways to the best of their abilities and also actively and consciously vitalizing their ancestral ways be a process of creative production and ethical judgment, so as to ensure the ancestors remain always living, and thus a moral significance for their descendants or the living living their engagements in this way or thus as much about the present and the future And on a side note they're further channeling their relatively newfound wealth which is coming from coffee coffee production into these vitalization efforts, even as this newfound wealth has brought in new forms of market state and climate driven controls and vulnerabilities. Their efforts can be seen as part of a broader global trend of indigenous resurgence is whereby indigenous communities are working from the grassroots level to restore and vitalize their deep connections to place culture and community. There by actualizing their distinct visions of indigenous autonomy on the ground. And I think in the interest of time here I'm going to, I'm going to skip ahead because I see that I'm almost at 20 minutes. I think I'm going to jump to the conclusions. I don't want to take any more time. These are some some more images from the indigenous sort of vitalization movements taking place in this particular village. This is an offering made to the spirit owners of the land the skies and the waters, kind of on the perimeter of the village and may speak to some of the shrines that were that Lisa was talking about in the Cambodian context as well. And this I wanted to also talk a little bit about the sort of the burgeoning movement in the United States and other parts of the world as well to reassert autonomy and control over various aspects of the life life process from both birth and also to death. And the home birthing movement birth doulas, death doulas, natural burials and so forth sort of connecting that in many ways thinking about this is all I see as being a part of this broader movement towards ancestral resurgence is. Okay. So in conclusion, what I would argue is that the coven 19 pandemic has only heightened the sense of urgency many have long felt in the West with respect to their neglected or discarded elders and long forgotten ancestors. Their ancestral presences continue to be felt in subtle and not so subtle ways. Now one of the most basic and profound insights coming out of the phenomenological turn in the social sciences is that we humans are inherently inter subjective beings who experiences, all of our experiences form and shape us into who we are for better or worse. I think it's time to expand this insight to include within this range of experiences the broader and deeper range of intergenerational legacies or ancestral presences that variably shape and form the very fields of experience into which we are born in the relation to which we participate intrinsically in each other's existence as members of one another. Since I strongly believe this broader cultural movement of ancestral resurgence is that I have but briefly touched on his great potential for restoring balance and sanity to the many human and more than human worlds that we co inhabit and call home. And I will end there. And introduce the next speaker. So, last but not least. The final speaker in the panel is soon to be Dr. Eugenie Clamon from the school for advanced studies and social science in Paris France, and the title of the paper. If I have it here. My page got cut off. I just have the last part title the paper. It's okay. Can you can you. Okay, I had the last part something. Okay. Sure, you got it. You got it. Take it away. All right. Okay, so hi everyone. And my name is Eugenie Clamon so I'm a PhD candidates in a social anthropology in a French Paris. So, this paper, this presentation is part of a working progress. I'm working on my PhD dissertation. So, since 2016, I work on the Navajo Nation, located in the southwest of the USA, between the states of Arizona and New Mexico and Utah, it's the largest indigenous nation in the United States. And I work with different groups involved in environmental justice, farmers, water protectors, land defenders, academics and anti capitalist political organization. I work with a group of around 30 people. And in the last five years, I have seen an evolution in talks and what seems like a politicization. The younger generation of adults living on the Navajo Nation seems to be more openly politicized than their older relatives, openly calls himself anarchist or communist, always within the Netherlands. They see themselves as first and foremost dinner. We use is all the political tools, the need to fight capitalism and what they see as environmental racism. So these caretakers of the land and the of the people granted practices in indigenous socialism, that is using the tools of the revolutionary left to get rid of the ongoing colonization, exposing internal class struggles and the set of resources in order to have a guarantee back. Here again, it's highly complex and testimony is deferred between the older generation rejecting all form of ism, I mean, communism, socialism, even capitalism, and the younger one. In this presentation I will detail how DNA environmentalists, water protectors and land defenders use both DNA fundamental laws and leftist theories to live dignified life. For that I will first introduce the key concept of K and O'Joh as the moral compass my interlocutor use to reach the origin of freedom. Secondly, I would present indigenous socialism via the material condition and the structures of power happening on the Navajo Nation. And the last part of my presentation will focus on my practice as a European white anthropologist working with indigenous activists and farmers by looking at how we build a relationship of trust in responsibility. So the concepts of Key and O'Joh. For my interlocutors, a good life is a life in balance. And the central concept I was taught as I was taught by a DNA educator can only be named in ceremonies. But I am allowed to use the concept of K and O'Joh, not the global concept, but some of them. So O'Joh expresses the intellectual notion of order, the emotional state of happiness, the physical state of health, the moral condition of good in the aesthetic dimension of harmony. The other major concept is K. It is a chemical system of clans based upon the four original clans created by the Navajo oli figure of changing woman. It's a system of relationship that connects every form of life, a core value of interdependency. The philosophical principle of O'Joh was for Dr. Larry Emerson, the living paradigm. He was a teacher and role model for many of my friends. He was a European concept of sovereignty. And for him, the goal of a DNA centered 70 led to K and O'Joh. And in this photo you can see a community garden in the left and Arizona, and it's a demonstration site. So just transition. The role of the farmer in political structures are considerably expanded since I first went to the Navajo nation during the winters 2016. I was living a life of almost self-sufficiency on DNA lens, teaching their fellow members how to plant, just like they are solicited on social media during COVID times, they themselves learned with educators like their Larry Emerson. A genealogy of resistance is visible. I was listening to the farmer and educator Nate Etziti that I interviewed last summer. Late Dr. Emerson, when I heard what he was doing at his farm, I was just blown away. When he explained to me all these structures, I was just blown away by the system. Larry Emerson, I've been practicing permaculture for a while. He had an established system. I was like, this is what I want. This is for our people, not only our people. This is a solution for poverty here. In the same way, I have seen a true freeing of speech from dissident individuals. Farmers have gained a social and political status. When I first stayed at the organ of Tyrone, a farmer in 2016, he told me, I talk too much for a Navajo. That's why I'm in trouble. And yet, year after year, now I see the house changing, fields getting bigger. There are now two hoop houses and a place to grow seeds, a outside kitchen with an organ. His place has become a demonstration site. His interview via Facebook, he put educational material. He answered questions. His videos are teaching basic principles of farming for people on a very tight budget. This is part of a web of indigenous farmers exchanging seeds, trees, water catchment system, and so on. So in this photo taken last summer, you can see rainwater catchment system. They were almost ready to function. So in the Navajo nation, most old farmers included a few or no access to running water. The water catchment system were installed in different houses. The material were gifted by an NGO and installed by a team of land defenders. So nowadays, indigenous socialism as places to express itself, both on the Navajo nation and in cities around like Albuquerque, Flagstaff, and Gallup. The camp for shop was created in 2017 in Winderock, the capital of the Navajo nation. It is a collective of self-titled in a leftist. For them, anarchism as indigenous roots and the genius resistance to colonization was in part due to a less structure. The camp for shop at the library, a coffee shop. It is a place where conferences are held. Live music is played, generation meet and exchange. It's a place of liberation. A place where one can educate yourself, himself, question, and it's also a place where unsheltered relatives can receive warm food and care. So on the bottom was taken from the Instagram account with the permission of the Dine photographer Anna Manolito. It was taken during a punk rock show in July 2018 at the camp for shop. And the band is a Dine band called Weedrat. If you look closely at this picture, you will read on the wall, K does not discriminate. The fundamental concept of K serves as a moral compass to the info shop and other people coming through it. And on the top, you can see a photo of the food box we were delivering to COVID positive household with the mutual aid group. So people were compacting them by phone, mail, or via the local tribal structures. So the material conditions and structures of power. Before the American conquest and the deportation of the DNA and for examiners. The land was now communally, and the political leadership was not coercive. From an Anglo American point of view, there were three problems with traditional indigenous leadership. The legal ownership of all land and religious structures were preventing their sale and commodification. Political decision were made by mutual consent procedure and the lack of central hierarchy authority. There was a lack of central hierarchical authority. As the Dine historian Jennifer Denetel wrote, Dine history is similar to those of indigenous, other indigenous people in the struggles, our leaders and citizen faiths. And that is, it began with a position of foreign forms of government, judicial system and leadership. Today, the Navajo nation lacks basic infrastructures such as running water. Approximately 33% of the inhabitants don't have running water nor electricity. This is part of a history of ongoing colonialism and the battle around DNA water resources between the tribes and the state surrounding it. As DNA geographer Andrew Curley states, the water settlements have had the effects of denying critical water infrastructures to DNA communities until the Navajo nation agrees to settle its claim to the Colorado river. For Dr Curley, this is part of a coal energy water nexus. And on this photo, you can see the material condition on the Navajo nation. The absence of paid road complicates any trouble. So this was taken at the peak of summer 2020. Some houses become unreachable due to lack of infrastructure infrastructures. And therefore they can't reach and help. So the current political structures of the Navajo nation were created in 1923 when prospectors found all in the DNA grounds. My interlocutors wonder who their government is really working for. This image that you can see on the left has been circulating in social media since 2017. Through political organization like they came to shop, they find what they say to be a political dignity. It allows them to be at the service of the people and on the front line. Many of them, if not all, went to Standing Rock in 2016 and what seems to have been a call for a whole generation. They are fighting to recover their sovereignty. And for them, it starts with regaining control over their food system. The season and management of the land, the water, the food and their political and economical organization. A series of delusions have changed farmers will teach you toward the governments. When I interviewed a dinner farmer last summer on this topic, his answer was, I think the Navajo nation government is like a subsidiaries, just a small branch of her largest branch. I think our Navajo nation government is inept. It should be teared down and rebuilt in our own indigenous DNA point of view, rather than try to work with a government that was set up for us. And in some sense, is the people were guided by the people, the mother, the matriarchs, the people who actually built the land and their family. So, we're under the illusion that our colonial government will save us. And here's in the vertical model of power, along with the tribal government were criticized heavily during this last summer. The existing goods and knowledge were not paid nor considered. Yet, they are the one changing the system of production and therefore the revolutionary actors in the office directors and communicators were receiving high salary and reward, while farmers and workers around seven days a week weren't even compensated for the mileage. More seriously still a cash with the office frontline workers actually the house where they were working the community garden with corn was growing was destroyed, breaking one of the most sacred DNA fundamental law destruction of life itself. And this is a post from an Instagram from one of the person belonging to the mutual aid group, built by the cat in the shop. I'm of course using this photo with the permission. And the NHA is another whole housing authority, and the house where mutual aid stocked the producers and we're doing the work was or belong to the NHA. So this series of events demonstrate the difference of perceptions towards the land between Navajo political infrastructure such as NHA and mutual aid group built around consensus like they came to shop. Are these tribal institution helping to produce what Sarah called colonial escape. Can we speak of class struggle. One farmer told me this summer. I don't believe there is a way to fix the system. I don't care who promises to do what I don't think there is any way to fix the system that isn't broken. It's functioning the way it's supposed to function. And if we want to actual change we have to create our own system, not in competition just in doing you know, we got to create our own system and when it becomes so successful. The people on the other side will come and be part of the change dinner farmers working towards food sovereignty. I've seen a major increase in demands and off seats and knowledge about painting and gardening since the start of the pandemic. Like a year ago in March 2020. There is a consensus that this has been a sort of wake of call and urgent need to be self sufficient and provide for the family. I'm a farmer and educator recall. Instead of trying to make changes halfway across the world, I find it best by you know, I should try to make these changes with myself first, and my own, and then my surroundings, and then in my family and then in my community. So in the process of trying to change things change the world I'm changing myself to. On top of that, I noticed a bunch of new people were interested. I keep just encouraging people will kind of fill out of it. I continue to tell them, this is just a hum. So that we're going over it's not going to last for long to keep going you know to keep that strike, we're actually starting to see rifle effects so who knows. Maybe in our lifetimes. I mean my meter mid 40s now, but by the time I'm in my 80s, we will have started a big revolution. So even if farmers don't explicitly talk about their work as socialism communism or anarchism, they are working for the betterment of the material physical and mental condition of the people. The work toward revolutionary goals for them it means the end of capitalism and ongoing colonization, in that the joint the global movements fighting ecological up evil. So let me please now finish this this presentation by focusing on the web of relationship, I have established on the never connection. This has led me to examine the vocabulary that we use when we relate to each other. Relatives, and I have been included in a circle of responsibility with words like family, my relative comrade homie sister. My intentions are to get out of a capitalist relationship where my interlocutors are producing a knowledge I extract without giving anything back. My circle of responsibility mean also at times being reminded when it's not the proper time to ask for information learning that there are times where knowledge is lived. And times when knowledge is shared, not all knowledge has to be shared knowledge extraction is a harsh truth that could maybe included in the circle of what is seen as capitalist predatory relationship. I extract knowledge from my relatives, a dinner friend told me once as a joke, but like any joke. There's a truth behind it. And I was taught something extractive economy has penetrated into every interest is the word we're telling me something about the social climate on the other nation. A fear of being dispossessed, not only of the land, but of words of memories, and of the necessity to tell your story with your own words. Some summers ago, one of my friend gave me corn seeds from her garden at Navajo station. I planted the seeds in my mother gardens, they grew big and tall. We now have plenty more dinner seeds. I find beauty and hope in this small acts out of neoliberal documents. Our relationship for within the multiple, the proliferation and the resume. So in a time of ecological of evil, we are building bridges. Thank you. Excellent paper to finish off the panel. We have about, we haven't told, I'm central central time here in the Midwest, I'm 145 I think you're 245 on the East Coast and I don't know where you are in the Pacific and other parts of the world but I have a question for Eugene, since you just finished. There's a, you see the question in the chat box that Mark had copied from Coralina Pico sub to the Navajo have a little more hope with Biden to see their rights change. No, I don't see the question but I will answer. Yeah. So, there is a little bit more hope, but that honestly, the farmers and different activities I'm working with. I've just like the solutions, like the only kind of little hope they've seen is with the nomination of Deborah Allen. You know, as a, as a secretary of, of interior. I can like, I've heard from a lot of people that this is an important thing for them. It's a big deal. Even if they have little hope in this system is like, at least this is something you know representation matter for little kids and for young adults. It's important for them they're visible. It's not something to see as a little revolution, but they're like we will see because every time we have expectations and then nothing changed so we'll see. There is another question for Lisa from Jeff McDonald. Was the area mined by the Khmer Rouge and if so how did the spirits react to this similar issues of the effects of road and railroad development in China are being reported due to the damage done to dragon lines of Shui. There was considerable opposition to railroad tunneling in 19th century China. Folks, if you could put some of this into the q amp a box it would make it a bit easier. So if you have questions please add them to the q amp a box rather than the chat box Lisa. Sorry interrupted you. Yeah, for that question I need to follow up on your comment. I don't know much about railroad tunneling 19th century China dragons under the earth is common across Southeast Asia over into China. So that would be interesting to follow up on. Yes, the area was mined by the Khmer Rouge the royalists and also the Vietnamese in the 80s and 90s. Work on the spirits and landmines is something I have focused on more in Western Cambodia in button blonde. I've actually written a couple of papers about that. I've not done any research on the mountain directly asking about landmines. So Western Cambodia in situation, people often interpreted my Buddhism, or to angering the spirits in the forest and then yes. You're breaking up a bit on my mind. So I suspect it would be similar on. Yeah, I think I'm losing it in Borneo, Micah. Maybe some of us can put our video up turn our video off when you're speaking it might make it, maybe less less bombory. No other questions that I see in the chat box but one that I have that I think that we could all speak to. And we can, you know, I much rather entertain questions from the audience but let's just wait and see as they come in, or any of you have questions that you can that sort of speak to cross paper issues I have to but I'll throw it out to my fellow panelists first. Is there any question you'd like to raise or pose. I was very appreciative of the way these pulled together. I'm, I'm interested in some of the gender aspects of leadership. I was thinking about it when Eugene was talking about her activists and friendships and thinking about it for your elders Micah and thinking of of Lisa's material so maybe we could talk a little bit more about the gender dynamics and whether these look more like new vitalizations or more like something that is a continuation of female leadership. Do you want to speak to that first because that that's also something in your panel would you like me to respond. So it's a, it's an important, important topic. So it's very interesting because from the on the farmers side most of the farmer working on so but on food sovereignty on the nation, I work with. All right, either queer or trans right. And it's interesting because it goes back to the gender views on the traditional gender view from on the dinner from the dinner tradition. And the mutual aid group is made of a lot of very young woman, really like in their in their early 20. You don't see a lot of men. It's really this space is this the leadership the visible face of the leadership is composed of young woman and and queer people. And also always reclaiming is this as belonging to traditional views on gender from a dinner point of view. Right. So it's, I hope I, it's more clear. In the context that I'm working with indigenous Aka. There, there are new and old dimensions to these cultural vitalization projects and it depends on the village and I worked in some sort of more conservative traditional village others more. I don't want to say progressive but others who were more open to actively and sometimes reforming the traditions in ways that the old traditionalist didn't even recognize it as tradition anymore but the way gender plays in is an interesting sense because the Aka are Patrick linear and generally wives women marry into their husbands households and the genealogical tradition is the naming tradition is primarily through the males but the ancestral offerings, they include at least the three closest to seven generations of ancestors as couples, right, the husband and wife sort of couplets, going out, and the flow of gulong for how for a particular household, fundamentally depends on maintaining good relationships with the wife sides of the family, especially to the mothers all the mothers brothers going back in multiple generations. So there's that, but that being said, one aspect that's pretty interesting for me is there is there's a movement on a part of some Aka, especially those who are more open to actively modifying and reforming traditions to allow for the naming tradition to be carried on through mothers, as opposed to specifically through fathers, and to allow in the cases where, for example, a family does not have a son to who will inherit the household and carry out the ancestral offering at the altar to allow for that to be done in the case where there's only daughters, for example, and even to allow in some context to allow for daughters or women to carry out to make the final ancestral offering. It's often done as a couple the husband and wife the head of the household, but ultimately it is the male head of the household who places the ancestral offering table at the foot of the altar. The sign on these sort of sits down says whatever they have to say calls upon the ancestors and then the meal is fed to the rest of the family so so there are some really interesting gender dynamics to these reformations of these ancestral ways. Am I still frozen. Okay, you're back. And then the diviners and the mediums are almost completely women. It's an interesting question Marjorie I don't, I assumed that was a continuation but I actually haven't asked the crusader tend to be men, which I think is because they often chant in Pali and they learned that often from Buddhist monks. So some of them are men who came out of the monastery and returned to village life, but I'm curious about your your shamans in the Siberian example, they both were women the photos you showed. Yeah. More traditional forms, the more revered and legendary shamans were men. And I think there, there has been a feminization process of leadership going on but not in a hardened way. It's, it's flexible it's adaptive and one of the reasons for that frankly is also Soviet legacy, where they really passed the higher profile guys and some of the women were able to continue underground. Some did, but some men especially were were more caught up in, in the Soviet repressions and killed even the issue though for current is a new and maybe you could even call it democratization of spirituality which I think is is multi gendered and accepting and and and fascinating. I also really am struggling and have been for many, many years with this tension between vitalization and revitalization because of the Soviet period being so repressive and so blatantly repressive. I started realizing that I had to use revitalization a lot of the time but that didn't mean that there wasn't some continuity. So it's a it's a balancing act how we think of these things and the, the gender part of this is just one part of the more complex flows of it that's not yes no or either or I'm looking at the comparative context of China. And I'm in the photos that I showed you have that small village level re slash vitalization of this new year ancestral offering. There were some in the village who were against it and they didn't even show up for the ancestral the right because some thought it was just waste of time. They were concerned that they had lived through the cultural revolution, and they were concerned that it was going to it was going to bring, you know, some, some iron fist down upon the village and, and then others were concerned that in, if they didn't do it properly, if they didn't carry out the rights properly according to the ways of the ancestors they might also bring harm from the ancestors in terms of you know the fear of offending the ancestors so there's all these layers of complexity but some of it is out of that, that that socialist context as it was manifest in China. So there's a comparative focus there thinking about that, but I guess I'm interested in how folks on the ground would see it and understand it. And it's and I found that a lot as you mentioned a lot of these practices were driven underground so the village. I mean, since at least since they started to have some economic wealth coming in from rubber primarily they've been feasting feasting is okay. And they've been feasting during during the occasion of the new year, and people will talk about that feasting using the same language they used in the past they will say we're the upper log which is we're making up an offering to the ancestors, without the ancestral altar, and without any kind of formal offering being made. So there's continuity at this continuity I think now it's just because it's now they actually reinstalled and alter at the village level. But how those those historical legacies play into the present moment. Yeah, I think also you Jenny you mentioned that there's lots of youth involved in these movements. I guess what the elders think of those movements in your amongst on the Navajo reservation. Well, at the center of it is a question of violence. No. So, I see the, and I've seen I hear the younger generation saying like violence can be legitimate sometimes. It's not the goal to be violence, but if it serves the purpose of ending colonization of getting rights of liberation. It's not the goal, but should be considered. So, some elders are not very okay with that. It's the main like friction that arise sometime, like how to deal with violence. But again it's, it's, it's really complex as every time. It's more like social interaction, because some elders resisted relocation on black Mesa, firstly, like with with again. And, and then, and they're like models for a lot of the younger generation now you know. So, it's, it's complex, and also what the elders like the blame the young generation for not speaking the Navajo language or not knowing the proper ceremonies, but the younger generation, like, they tell me like but we didn't make this we didn't choose that we weren't taught this thing so sometimes we feel like we're like treated like five years old kids when we are 2025 but we didn't have this educational tools because of boarding school because of forced Christianity because of relocation, we have lost contact with the sacred sites, many elders also passed away, and that was also a big fear during the nation, like, a lot of places like you say you can like elders are also a library they're leaving proves they are the knowledge. So every time elders know it's a tragedy. Because each elder has a special knowledge, they know ceremonies and songs. So it's always embedded in a lot of, a lot of, a lot of complexity. Thank you for that. Can I follow up or do we have other questions in the Q amp a. I don't see anything yet. I was also very disturbed when I understood that there had been a community garden that was actually destroyed. And I know that Eugene you didn't have the time to talk about it but indeed sacred cord being destroyed is, is mind blowing how what was the context for that what happened. Because like I said, there was a cash so the mutual aid group started first you know as spontaneously like we need to do something. The COVID is happening and we don't have the structures, like the tribal structures will will will take too much time. So this spontaneously organized one team one part of the team is the one with the contacts and with international profile, where the face of the mutual aid, and the other were working on the ground well it was kind of how we work. So there was a clash, because people like the one on the ground. Doing all this manual work like making sure the trucks are there, connecting people calling them sanitizing everything. They didn't pay they weren't paid they weren't seeing any money they did not even have even mileage so their anger was growing, and they learned that with the money they received like from fun so it was like. All this money was received through a donation right. So, when they heard that people in the office decided to change their model from mutual aid group to NGO, they were furious because nobody asked them their opinion, and then they didn't receive any compensation. A lot of them were in depth or didn't have any work so they put on their own money. They were ousted they were ousted in a so Navajo single 30 was renting them a house. So when the cash happened, the people like the face of the NGO or want to be NGO user contact and so NHA didn't choose the people on the ground. So, in terms of power, it was clearly what it has been seen like oppression oppression and that's why they talked to me about the words I want saying this is a class struggle this is bougie natives. Not working for the people but working for their own condition the betterment of their condition. So the Navajo housing authority told it. So the people that to leave the house. I'm talking about the people from the mutual aid group. So they had to clean up everything. And but they were told, so they grew up a community garden but they were told that they could keep the garden, because corn was growing it was not time to to artists. The one one nights they went there and the corn was cut. So employees working for the tribal structures received the order to just cut them down and yeah it's it wasn't believable. It really it's something. It blew everyone minds it's something. Nobody thought it could happen. So that's how it happened. I mean, chord on the Navajo nation it's like, people were like, how could you. What, where do you belong. Have you not grown up in this land. Like you were doing that. How can you do that it's. So yeah, it is one very far. Expanding on that Virginia is something you had said earlier about someone saying to do not extract knowledge from my relatives right in kind of ironically but not really ironically there's something behind it. We probably I don't I mean I had a similar experience in the field as well and, for example, I was given an Aka name which means I'm in mood the second part of that means sort of good and proper and well behaved and generally good nature. I made a joke and I didn't quite get at the time saying that he's he's good now, but he may not be good in the future. And I sort of caught it later no depending on you know the relationships there I was I was I was working on a documentation project and recording some of the vitalization efforts and so forth but they had dealt with anthropologists before and scholars and missionaries who had come through and extractive knowledge and converted and so on but I wonder if each of us might speak to that. That experience of you know, thinking about knowledge not as a commodity but as a gift and thinking about as a gift the kind of obligations responsibilities and rights that come along with right and engaging. One of the things I think Eugenie's case just of conflict just described as teaching us not to ever over generalize about a people and not that we've done that in our generations of scholars but but it is so important to understand internal political social context, and your close friends may be allied with one group over another so in the field the complexities of your own social networks really really are important to be sensitive to I, I've been in the field on and off in in Sahara Republic and also in two other areas of Siberia, Boryatia and Tiva for for many many years but back and forth to Sahara and of times that I lost count and now have Sahara neighbors and friends who are very close. The networks. I'm this week we're mourning one of our elders who passed away in Boston but as part of the Sahara diaspora and be loved back home and so my inner relationships with all of these folks are just so important to maintain. It is never ever possible and it's great that it isn't possible to just sort of go home from a field site and then write up your notes and say okay I'm done I mean this is not how you treat a field commitment to friends that you have made and of course you may have people who interlocutors you may have people who are high up of informants who are just part of an interview I mean your whole range is going to be so complex in terms of what your relationships are that it would it would be impossible to over generalize your own personal interconnections and they also go back and forth over the years and change and shift in intensity so so you have a lot to look forward to because you all three seem very embedded and very close to the people in the work that you've been doing and that's the most beautiful gift of all. Yeah I feel very privileged to work with Cambodians. I think I am lucky because I spend a lot of my time working with elders and most of the communities I work in they like that. People of working age are busy, you know, trying to grow crops trying to deal with the wage. A lot of people talk about the elders being neglected so I've often been told it's nice that I come and sit around and talk to old people a lot. But I think my responsibility goes beyond that because Cambodia is also a post war context. And there's almost no written documentation of villages histories or traditions or customs or stories at all. So what I've tried to do with my students is to always return local language summaries back to the community heads. What I think is interesting is it's not clear if people are necessarily excited about that now but I wonder if a generation from now they will be. It depends on the village, some villages have asked for their history back other villages seem a bit confused about why anyone would write it down so it really it really is a place to place, but yeah. Can I ask Lisa to what extent would you say that as a collaborative process of generating local histories and stories and I don't know that I would call it collaborative because it's I'm doing it through the oral history medium. So you know I'm sitting with elders and we're doing very long oral histories. I often in small groups, which is the Kami and the bonong, the indigenous people I work with. The elders often like to be in small groups because they'll, you know, they'll start talking and they'll add each other's memories and, but I feel to call it collaborative it would require more than what I do which is listen right things but I mean I always work with local research assistants to try to help with that but I think yeah I would like to think about what a more collaborative approach would look like and I've been very interested in youth and whether youth are interested in listening and writing down the stories of their elders that's quite a complicated one in Cambodia at this point in time. I was actually interested Micah with the ACCA people if the youth are engaged with these vitalization traditions of the elders are doing. Well, it's this is part of a larger trans regional ACCA cultural pride vitalization movement and so there's a group based in Burma, who are bringing in musicians popular musicians, almost as kinds of slogans or the slogan of the movement and so there's a there's a kind of heavy metal rock band called Ten Fingers and they're really they're really good. The lead singer is like he was like on Idol Burma or Idol Burma or something he won last year, but he had been sort of chosen as the spokesperson him in his band for this this new tradition was movement based in Burma. And he takes the themes of the movement and puts it into music about we are ACCA and we carry the ACCA way we make offerings we respect the ancestors were one 10 ACCA or one as opposed to one being 10 the sort of metaphor one becoming 10 being split, but rather 10 becoming one. So that's one way that they're working with you. They've also some of the some of the younger and middle age folks who were literate in Thai or Chinese or Burmese and some even in English they developed a common writing system, and they mostly have been teaching targeting younger youth and ironically in a way they received the grant from the US ambassadors fund, the embassy in Bangkok to do a cultural vitalization project documenting rituals but also producing films and books, looking at children's games and sports games and teaching the alphabet and so on so so that that that is making connections with youth throughout throughout the region. But it depends on the space the village in the place and it's not so easy to do that work in Laos for example in Vietnam. But but but there are connections with the youth. There are in some villages there's a stronger connection, but it really varies. So interesting. Okay folks that looks like we're at about time. I just want to jump in here and I want to thank the panelists, and I just want to say a couple of things. I would not have believed that this wasn't an organized panel ahead of time, having having sat here and participated in this and so Mike I thank you for just an absolute pro job in navigating that and being the panel chair and thank you to the panelists. The way you engaged, not only the group and engage and presenting your own material but then engage with one another was so complete and so and so captivating that I've been in we've all been in a lot of these sessions sometimes they generate a lot of questions and a lot of activity in the chat. And sometimes they don't. Other reasons I think they don't just when a presentation is so complete and so contextualized that we just get to sit back and enjoy all of your of your presentation and the way that they fall into one another and it gives us so much to think about and I think that's what was happening here. Thank you for the presentation thank you for the interaction. Mark thank you for organizing the panel the way you did because that speaks a lot to your awareness of these folks and the uniqueness of their work, and how it also bleeds into each other. And so thank you all for that wonderful wonderful panel I also want to do a quick shout out to a Coralina Pico switch TV and the twitch TV folks. Mark has worked hard to get twitch integrated into our presentation and get these ideas out to a whole host of other folks that maybe aren't primarily in academia or at least coming to us through those channels and so welcome to the twitch TV audience and thank you for participating there. And lastly, we're going to have a short break here and I'll throw it to Mark before we we stop, but we're going to be coming back with our screening of the film gather on Indigenous food sovereignty it's a wonderful film, and there's two components to it the film starts at 3pm Eastern time if you look in the chat. There's information you have to actually register for a ticket the ticket's free, but you have to get the ticket because that will then email you the link to be able to screen the film with us and then there's a second component starting at 430 Eastern time. There's a zoom link for a q&a with the director of the film and one of the film's participants and so we really hope that you can join us for that, and the links for that are in the chat. Now, and that will start at noon Pacific 3pm Eastern. And so we have a short break until then. So mark anything from you as we close out. I just want to echo your words Andy thank you so much for all of you presenting this is an incredibly important topic and I think it will feed nicely into the gather screening that will be having coming up. I think that, you know, we'd like you to register for that screening that helps the screeners know who's watching the movie, it's free to you, but that would be helpful for us to to honor their work to create that movie so if you could do that that would be great the links are posted will also be simultaneously streaming that on twitch and later on, we will be having our happy hour will have another session that should be good and then we'll be having our happy hour. And then I just wanted to point out if anyone's interested in exploring the twitch space it's a different non academic space. We'll be having an after party at twitch.tv backslash abracadabra. So it's a live DJ set. You can come and hang out to see what it's about. I think Anna said, one of our help our help desk. She said it's another world and it is so anyways, just wanted to give that information but thank you again to each of our presenters. Thank you to Marjorie and Eugenie. These have absolutely wonderful so thank you so much to everyone and we'll see you in a few minutes for our, our screening. I'll close all just to just throw a pitch for the happy hour our evening happy hours are turning into a space where some senior anthropologists and folks who have worked with the organization for a very, very long time 3040 50 years are coming in and being able to share some really intimate and stories about their life and their work and where they are now and we've really been able to sort of create a container and hold space for that for that really sacred space. And that happened last night with Dan Mormon and some other folks and it's going to happen again tonight David Cole and Kerry Pataki will be joining our happy hour later to talk about their work in the late 60s in Papua New Guinea. We connected through anthropology of consciousness and are excited to come join us and informally have a conversation about that so please do try to make the happy hours if you can they're really, really great.