 Season one, episode five. So I'm passing math today, which is good because I'm going to talk with a techie and she checked my math. I'm so glad to be back with you and really excited about today's guest. I'm also excited that this week I got my COVID or last week Thursday, I got my COVID vaccine dose two of the Pfizer and I know many of us across the country are kind of excited about making progress against the pandemic. My only side effect was I felt a little crummy and felt like taking a nap and 13 hours later I was fine. So I got the best nap in my life probably. So let's hope that society progresses down the vaccine trail and we overcome this really tragic situation. I do want to thank before I start think tech Hawaii for allowing me to present pigments the power of imagination. They're a 5013 C corporation which I think means they need your donations. I know they do. So help out think tank they've got a tremendous diversity of content, and they rely on you the viewers to support them. So please do. I have a great guest today I'm really excited about having Lieutenant General Susan Helms on an old friend from my time at Air Force Space Command and Susan how are you bring bring it. How are you doing. I'm doing great big it's great to see you again. Likewise. So you were in the first Air Force Academy class with women. I couldn't even get into the Air Force Academy in fact I think they might still stop me at the gate. You were a flight test engineer, you were the first military woman in space. You're a three star general yet longest space walk. Holy cow and that doesn't even cover your most difficult assignment the Air Force. I think I know what you're going to say. You had to teach me about space you and Carl Marty France, another great space command officer, got stuck with teaching the Neanderthal fighter pilot about space and how stuff works in space. What do you remember about that just because it had to be your most difficult job. I remember how quick of a student you were. I, I remember really thinking when I explained space to a lot of people it does sometimes take a while for folks to catch on if they're not familiar with the material but you caught on immediately and not only did you catch on to the physics that were going on, but you also caught on to the implications of what military space would really bring to the fight. That's what I remember about that half hour I think I spent in your office with a chalkboard and a piece of chalk and a few hand gestures and things like that. Right. We don't we don't do this. Exactly. While you and Marty did a great job and I was, if I was quick it was because I was passionate about it because I never flew a combat mission of the f 15 and f 16 combat missions I flew that wasn't very much enabled by space capabilities. So, so I was passionate about it. I don't know if I told you my shuttle launch story at the time I shared this right before we came on the air but, but my earliest exposure to space was when I had a chance to see a shuttle launch and didn't prepare for this. I think you might have been on that mission in discovery mission in 1994. But as a group commander I was down at the shuttle landing strip. Right. Patrick Air Force Base. And I went there to meet with one of my squadron commanders that a helicopter squadron that supported shuttle landings and there was a delay. Was there a delay on every launch you ever flew on. You know that one was really interesting because we didn't think we were going to launch that day either. But nonetheless they thought well just in clay just in case the weather breaks let's load you all into the spacecraft. So we woke up that day thinking there's no way I mean the weather was terrible that day. And our window for launch was about two and a half hours. So at the two hour and 10 minute point so we had 20 more minutes left to go. Mission control and launch control came on and said hey we got a break in the weather you're going now. So, literally had. We had to mentally switch our heads from today's not a day we're going to launch to we're launching now and it was really about that quick. That went on time. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Really all of your other missions went on time. I was not that quick Susan because Bob Hall that Holloway my 41st rescue squadron commander and I were sitting in the blockhouse there at the landing strip and remember that. And just having a great kind of father son I'm his boss conversation. He's a fine squatter commander. And we heard this noise and what. What do you suppose that is well that is the motor starting on the shuttle. And we run outside like a couple of idiots, which we were. And I swear Susan, I saw this contrail that went up to a cloud and disappeared behind a cloud. And because of the geometry. I never saw the shuttle. Who else can do that. Well, we were almost as surprised as you were. But you got to participate I didn't. So, that's true. What is, you know, with all of your experience and we'll get to the longest spacewalk in history which you owner of that accolade of fuel. But if you were to tell the general public, our viewers, one thing about being in space operating in space being an astronaut that you'd like them to know what would it be. I would like people to know how peaceful life is up there on the space station. You know, when I was in space in 2001 that was my last mission that was a six month duration flight on the International Space Station. And people often asked me what, what were you scared all the time was it nerve wracking and I tell people no actually it was kind of the most peaceful time of my life. Because we were away from almost all email, all phone mail, all that noise of life we didn't have television we didn't have any kind of, you know, social media of course back then. And, and it was peaceful, and it was so peaceful that when I came back from that six month mission. And the difficult transition to make after being in space for six months was getting used to all the noise of life again, which, which I did not expect, and no one told me about that in advance but it was a very difficult transition psychologically to come back from a long duration space flight and be around people again. And that was through a three people total me and a Russian and another American and, and all three of us were. If that was a tough transition actually more tough and physical transition to come back. Did you speak Russian or English. Oh, we spoke Brucelish. Jim and I Jim boss my space walking crewmate. He and I had to learn how to speak Russian because half of the space station at that time is Russian provided. Right. And Yuri, Usachoff our crew commander had to learn how to speak English. So between the three of us over four years of training and then six months on the space station we just kind of came up with our own little crew language of Brucelish. And it worked extremely well we understood each other pretty much perfectly, even people around us couldn't understand us. So that six month mission you train for four, four years for. Yeah, I think that's, I think that was the number. It's I started in 97. And we launched in on March 8 of 2001, just had our 20th anniversary. Wow, a couple weeks ago. So our peaceful is our takeaway about space is it's peaceful. Yes. And beautiful. Like, seeing that in, but only in pictures and, you know, maybe I've flown fairly high but not like space. So how does somebody like you wind up in space what was your motivation and of course I'm answering asking questions I know the answer to, because I know your dad if we could see the picture of your dad was the key part of your motivation and let me talk about technology that's an IBM selector typewriter, I think a beautiful bit of technology at the time. For those of us had to type term papers and stuff but so your dad I know was your motivation tell me about about that and how he inspired you because we're about entertaining and inspiring here on thickness. So, you know, my, my parents, of course, were really awesome. My dad was a career pilot in the Air Force, and he had flown in several different kinds of airplanes. And I think that as I looked at what he did in the Air Force there was so much about what his life was like and what his career was like that was really inspiring to me, you know serving his country. Of course, spending a year in Vietnam. In addition to that it was a really, it was really compelling to me to travel around it was compelling to me to move often and see different places and get a chance to travel of course I didn't realize at the time. How far I would travel, but further than me. So the Air Force offered lots and lots of opportunities to do some really amazing things while you're serving your country. And, and then on top of that, in the 70s, you know, for me to join the Air Force I would get equal pay for equal work. That was another motivator back in the 70s, because there weren't a lot of places where you could do that. And the young lady woman, did that give you a bit of an edge did you know was there a little bit of, you know was that something you really wanted equal pay for equal work. I think, I think actually my dad and my mom both were always very supportive. So, for them. Yeah they, my mom and dad both were of the mind that there was nothing I couldn't do if I didn't put my mind to it. So, if I would just put my mind to something, I could make it happen, and they both believe that. And I grew up in a family of daughters I, I don't know if I find that a compelling fact or not but I was the oldest of four daughters. And my parents just absolutely made sure that if there was something I was interested in doing, they would ensure that I would understand that was achievable. And I loved math and science as a kid, and I decided I wanted to get into something that was math and science related, which was where the idea of becoming an engineer came from, since it's also a creative career. Yeah, well, you're also an artist and pianist, I think, and a musician. And you told me that one of your mentors some somebody told you that the best way to be creative was to be an engineer, something like that. I got that right. If you like math and science and you also want to be creative. The engineering career field is a great way to go because it's inherent nature design is part of the creative process with math and science. I am wearing my university of Hawaii shirt today in honor of Alejo. Some of you know him, some of you viewers who was admitted to UH this week. But when I shared that with him, he's an artist and musician. He said, yeah, it's a logical path to creativity. I really like that description. I can't do it. I hate math and science. I have no musical talent. I just wanted to fly. But as it turns out, you kind of just wanted to fly to and we'll get back to that right after we talk about our coming episodes. Okay. That's good. So, in our next episode, Eric can be there we go. We're going to have Andre Maria Jacquet on who are tremendous friends I've mentioned them for several weeks now, lead writers for the first several years of mad men, and they take their figments and sell them. And I've worked with them and have gotten to know, folks, you're going to love this that you're going to love the inside Hollywood look at it. And you're going to really enjoy meeting two wonderful friends of mine. And then two weeks after that, we'll meet with Kim Rowley and Bruce Fink who both were told, basically, you're going to die and decided their figment was to not die. Now it doesn't always have that happy and ending. But Kim and Bruce are going to share their stories. And I know you'll be inspired by that. And by the way, Kim or husband Ross who I try to take money from on the golf course every week. Susan all taught at the Air Force Academy together and recently met again on vacation, right, Susan. That's right. I just got back from Texas where I met up with them for a spring break. It wasn't traditional spring break it was in a bubble but I had a great time and I think Ross said he was going to take your money. So whatever, whatever. It is a small world and you've seen it from a perspective where it's a real small world. But you wanted to fly. Right. I mean that's what you really wanted to do and I know that feeling. So, tell me about how you felt about flying and getting in the air. I, when I was a test engineer, it, it became obvious that flying high and fast was is one of those things where you wake up every day going I can't believe I'm getting paid for this. I'm doing engineering while I'm in the air on the jet, but to get to fly while I'm doing what I love all at once was really like living in Disneyland actually. So when the astronaut opportunity came along. I would say well, you know what is it about being an astronaut that really appeals to you and I said well I get to fly higher and faster than I've ever flown before and I get to see a beautiful view at the same time. So I must have something about my dad inside of me, because he loved to fly. And, and I'm the only daughter that has taken this path. Yes, just flying high and fasting. And of course, you know it's kind of hard to beat the space shuttle for, you know, a rocket ride. But she don't just wind up you don't just say you know I want to get on the space shuttle and you've got to pay some dues, and you put your living where your mouth was and said after test pilot school. And so Susan viewers went to test pilot schools of flight test engineer, and then chose to go to cold Lake Canada, and from Honolulu. That sounds crazy we have a picture that I shiver when that's you on a Canadian CF 18 Hornet, yet ready. But that's cold man. It's probably June right, June or July at cold Lake. Oh, probably. Yeah, but probably is, but man the flying was great up there. And you flew in CF 18s and their version the t 33 I think what else f fives, and then they had Kyle was and twin and then they had a Canadian unique airplane called the challenger that I never saw fly because it was having issues. Having challenges, I guess. Yeah. But yeah, it was the f 18 and f five were obviously two of my top favorites, but they let us fly and everything which wasn't necessarily true at Edwards are eglings had to pick a weapon system. Right, right. As you, as you know I've got a son of law who's a Air Force test pilot, you do have to focus in your job. You went to cold lake. Right. And, and then you met some people and saw movies and that made you want to be an astronaut beyond what we've already talked about hiring faster. Right you met folks who'd flown in space. Yes, I met Sally ride in grad school. Kind of a jaw dropping moment to get a grad school wall in the Air Force, by the way, while in the Air Force. Yes, therefore sent me to grad school. And Sally ride came through there and gave a speech and I went up to her and it was so stunned to meet her that I couldn't even talk. And then I also met Dick Covey he came to our graduation for test pilot school he was a graduation speaker. And, and he encouraged me to apply for the astronaut program. He basically said, we hope we see you in Houston sometime, which is where all the astronauts live and train. And, and I also had been primed by watching a couple of IMAX films. One of them, in particular the dream is alive narrated by Walter Cronkite. And, and that movie was something you saw in an IMAX theater, it still plays, you can get it on DVD if you want, and it is a real stunner. And, and when I looked out the window the first moments. The first thing I said, according to my crew mates was, this looks just like an IMAX movie, because it's about the only film format that does justice to the view. Yeah. So, so between the IMAX movies I saw and the people that I met, and then of course being encouraged and wanting to keep flying higher and faster it all came together, and I applied to the program and much to my amazement. I got selected, which I didn't expect it was sort of like winning the lottery in my head. Yep. Those of us who know you and have worked with you weren't surprised at the life you've had. Because, because you're an exceptional person but also down to earth. Oops, there's a little play on words. But it's true. And it is true and you haven't gotten ahead of that. As you went through all of these firsts, first class with women at the Air Force Academy, first military woman in space, and many others were, if you weren't the first you're breaking a lot of ground in new territory for women. Did you think of it that way or did you think of it as individually as a person, I'm doing this, it's not about my gender, or was it both? I primarily was trying to do these things because they sounded like a whole lot of fun. And I, good motivation. Yeah, I, I mean, there's obviously more to it than that, but the more to it than that is I wanted to be a professional engineer. I wanted to do a job at it. I wanted to make, make my life's work, doing that in service to my country. And as it turns out, I happened to be first on some things but that's not why I did them. I didn't do them because of the gender I didn't do it because I'd get a chance to be first I did it because it's not like a lot of fun and timing is everything right fig. The doors opened about the time I was ready to step through them. And, and if it turned out that I happened to be the first at something that was to me just a massive coincidence. Well, you made the most of it. I have to ask you as an engineer do you have a slide roll back on your shelves that we see behind, because my dad was a chemist and my sisters were techies and we had a Facebook conversation about slide rolls, which I could never use. But do you, you know, they quit issuing those to the Air Force Academy cadets, the year before I got there. So, I don't have a slide roll never learned how to use one. I do have an advocate surrounding you somewhere. But, but yeah, they, they gave us a very expensive little calculator that could add subtract. A small nuclear reactor in it. So I'm going to leave a minute or two at the end to talk about your current segment but before we do that. I want to talk about something that was an, I think equals the accomplishments you made as a flight desk engineer and astronaut. And that's your return to the Air Force, because astronauts who are Air Force officers really leave the Air Force. They're off doing NASA things and most of them never come back. Right. Yeah, most of them do not come back. Right. Got a picture of you as a three stars the 14th Air Force commander. And you came back as a colonel when I met you at Space Command and then we're a wing commander and did a bunch of other different general officer officer jobs and you're a great colonel. And I think a really fine general and I don't say that about everybody wants it you know we have a little bit of hubris if you will about that. How, how was it to be out of the Air Force for so long as an astronaut and come back in in a senior and very responsible leadership role. Well, first of all, all the acronyms have changed. And the uniforms looked like they were a little different and the whole Air Force had reorganized. Oh yeah you missed that. And I left to go to NASA in 1990. So they changed everything folks from street addresses to regulation numbers. You have to have lived this to know how different the Air Force was when she came back. Yeah, but I knew when I went to go to NASA that I would come back to the Air Force. I just knew that I would do that because the Air Force was my DNA. And I have truly. Yeah, so I have exactly that being in the background there so I had to give so much credit to the people around me, who recognize that I was swimming underneath all the things that changed while I was gone. But people were so gracious. People never minded my dumb questions. They never minded helping me remember what side of the uniform to put my name tag. Because at NASA we only wear civilian clothes. We don't wear uniforms. So I, I, and I had a lot of very, very supportive people, you included Faye, who recognized, you know what situation I was in and was perfectly willing to help me work through all that. And, and of course, what the Air Force did in their great wisdom was they put me in the part of the space program that involved understanding satellites. And that was incredibly insightful of the Air Force to do that because I had been a satellite. And so I really intuitively fit in well with the mission area that they put me into, which we would, we called space control back then. Yep. So I'm forever grateful for the Air Force for recognizing that that's where my real value was was to help with that part of the mission. Well, I think your real value was you were an outstanding leader, and you did the right thing for both mission and people. And we saw that in you. And so I'm glad you glad you always plan to come back and did it. And now I want to make sure that we give you a chance to talk about what your current figment is in your, this iteration of your professional and personal life. Yes, I have to talk about the fact that all those years I was doing everything you've described. I missed out on so much with the family. So when I retired I said I'm going to move back near my parents and I'm going to be there for them. However long it needs to be. And that was seven plus years ago, and they're still with us. So I, I say my, my parents, my dad, he's 90 now. He still tells flying stories big. I have a future. I secretly record with my iPhone when he gets on a roll. So I have those stories. And, and as long as they're around that's, that's really my, my, my priority right now is to make sure that whatever it is they need on there to get it for. Are they proud of you at all. Oh no. I'm sure they are one of what a blessing. Yeah, by the way, yeah. Tell you all about me, just, even if you're sure. So, I'd love to hear it. And in my folks, sadly, passed away before much of my unexpected success and I wish they could share it I'm sure they do from above, even above where you were above. So, and your dad, by the way, was a rescue helicopter pilot in Vietnam, the most dangerous and selfless side of flying in the Vietnam war and you're right it's in your DNA. And I'm so thankful that we got a chance to share with folks. I know you've inspired and entertained. I hope you'll get, you'll get out to Hawaii now that things you get normal and visit the Rollies. I'll 100 and I will host you, because I can afford it with, with Ross's money from golf. And that's my story. And we look forward to seeing you and thank you for everything you've done for our country and for the world really Susan. Well thank you too, Fig, for everything you've done. It's been marvelous talking with you today and this is the great thing you're doing. Thank you. It's a lot of fun and we'll do it again next week folks and make sure you click like or share or whatever it is we do in the digital world and send me any ideas that you might have on our, on our topics. Aloha and Mahalo. Thanks Susan. Bye bye.