 Hello everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of this episode, we talk about why treating exercise as a sport can actually improve your muscle building results, the dangers of using iPads and other digital devices to calm children, as well as other topics. In the second half of the show, the guys coach four live callers on questions such as, I'm built like a rugby player and want to lean out, what should I do? What should I eat at restaurants to stay lean and healthy when I'm traveling? I've lost over 150 pounds, but recently regained 20. What should I do to get back on track? And I want a more feminine look, but I feel like I've gained too much muscle in the wrong places. What should I do? One more thing, go to Mind Pump Clips and subscribe. We have short clips for you to share and to enjoy. All right, enjoy the show. Here's a tip that will dramatically improve your success and your results. Treat your workouts like a sport. What do I mean by that? Look at your exercises like skills. Perfect the skills of the exercises and they will pay you back in dividends. You couldn't even possibly imagine a sports ball. Yes, thanks. Like, well, I think are you keeping track of all the sports metaphors this guy uses? I have not, but it's getting to be quite numerous. It's a lot. Yeah. Are you watching more sports? Is that why this is happening? No. No, but wait, wait, isn't it mandatory? Like an Italian guy like you watches soccer World Cup? I mean, it's been a big thing. Is that racist? Can I hold on a second? Hold on a second. You guys did an actual. You guys. No. I'm going to see how long. Do you guys realize that this World Cup? This is embarrassing. Italy didn't even qualify for this World Cup. National disgrace. Is that true? Is that like? Yeah, they didn't even qualify for the World Cup. Wow. We're talking about one of the best teams of all time. You know, Italy's got all that Italian pride. Oh boy. Right out the window. It was terrible. That's so annoying. Sorry, I didn't see Scotland in there either. Well, I don't think. Do they play soccer? They do, dude. They do. Yeah, actually, I'm going to plan on going while I'm there. Really? Yeah, it's like club team, but yeah. Oh, good for you. No. So all right, here's what I mean by this. OK, we if you were to go and play a new sport. So if somebody's like, hey, I'm going to go learn golf or I'm going to go learn soccer or basketball, they wouldn't go out and just go as hard as they could. They wouldn't take a club and just swing, swing, swing, swing until they were tired and sore. They would actually learn the skill. They would actually learn the skill of dribbling a ball, of shooting a ball. They would learn the skill of catching a football, throwing a football. But for some reason, when it comes to exercise, we take skill, we throw it out the window. And what matters is just how tired I get. And the problem with that is exercises or skills. And just like with sports, you can swing a club as hard and fast as you want. And you will not get good at swinging the club. You will not get good at hitting the ball. You will not get good at hitting the target. And just like that, with with exercises, you could squat to your tired, bench to your tired, you know, overhead press to your tired. But if your skill isn't good, if you don't do it well, you'll hurt yourself and you will not get great results versus looking at exercises like skills and being like, I'm gonna get really good at the skill of these exercises and then the dividends, the results just never stop coming and you get better and better and stronger and stronger and your risk of injury goes way down. So don't go to the gym and think, I'm just gonna get tired and sore or whatever. Say, okay, here's my layout. I should say of exercises, I'm gonna go get good at this, get good at this and get good at that. That right there, that alone will make your workouts so much more effective. And by the way, people who've been working out for 10 plus years, it usually takes us 10 years to figure this out. And then when we do, it's like, oh my God, I wish I knew this when I first started. Yeah, it's interesting. You don't see anybody just trying to get through the game. I mean, unless their parents forced them to be there. But yeah, that seems to be the thought process still that's out there for a lot of people. Like this is work and it's, gotta get through the drudgery of it to be able to get. I know I have to be here and I have to do this. Instead of like learning to enjoy it and being really practical about how they treat every exercise and getting better and improving on it. Just like practice, like you would for any other sport. How often do you guys revisit that? For ourself, for ourself? Like, you know, cause imagine, let's use your sports analogy. You've learned to dribble, you've learned to shoot. You can swing the golf club, you can swing the bat really well now. You've been doing it for a long time. Do you still feel like you have workouts where you go back and it's like all technique driven and it's like almost like you're like a beginner again? Oh, I love doing that. Yes, 100%. And so that's what I'm asking. So I did one of these, that's why I'm asking. I did, I literally trained this way like a day ago. So how often do you think you do that? Okay, so if I pick a new exercise I haven't done in a while, that's all it is. All it is in the workout is perfecting the skill. If I do exercises that I've done for the last 15 years that I feel very, very good about the skill and the technique, then I'll push the weight and the intensity, but just like a basketball player who can, you know, throw three pointers really, really well, their skill is still priority. Now they may throw them from different angles or whatever, but they know that if their technique is off, they're not gonna make a basket. So I think all of us understand that with our workouts, do we throw technique out the window anymore in pursuit of lifting more weight? It's pretty rare now that any of us really do that, really. I mean, I know ego can get in there a little bit, but it's not like it was when I was like 15 where to add more weight on the bar, I would turn an exercise into something else. Like it doesn't look like that exercise anymore just cause I wanna lift more weight. But I mean, think about it. Think of the benefits of a very well performed barbell row, like what kind of benefits you get. Now think of the benefits of a poorly performed barbell row. The difference between the two and results is literally night and day. It's not even close to each other. It's like one gives you great results, one gives you terrible results. Well, I think there's two things that kind of stand out for when I kind of address that in my programming. And one of them is when I'm working my way up towards PR-ing or if a goal of like actually, you know, lifting more weight than I've lifted before, I wanna go through a phase of just like working on all the nuances, treating it like it's its own skill, like hyper focusing on it for a while. And then the other one is when I've been in a bit of a plateau and I wanna learn a new skill or like an unconventional lift or something that's like, you know, maybe I knew back in the day like a clean and I need to go back and revisit all those like very specific type of nuanced skills that will help me to kind of bring that back in so I can include it to the programming. Interesting, I'm glad I asked him because I feel like everybody is that different approaches to that. There's two ways that I see it. One is like when, like yesterday it was because I did back to back workouts, the workout before was pretty taxing. And so I knew I didn't need to really push the weight. So I found, I find that a really good day to like reduce the weight and it's all skill. So I was like, okay, today is technique, skill, slow down the repetitions, lighten the load up dramatically. The other time is when it's been like, let's say I've fallen off for three or four weeks and I haven't been consistent. And I know that I'm easing back into working out. And so I love to start off with like light technique type of lifting to get easy. Cause I know one, it won't take much because I haven't been consistently lifting for the last couple of weeks. So I don't need that much load. Plus I'm also like, okay, it's like, just like I would in basketball. If I haven't shot a basketball in, you know, even though I consider myself a skilled basketball player who's been playing for most of his life, if I haven't played in years right now, if I were to go on the court right now, I would go and I have these little warm up drills that I would do, which would, I would think would be the same as like doing technique drills for lifting. And so if I haven't done it in a long time, if I've been on a break, that's when I tend to do it or two, let's say I know I'm sore or I overreached lately and then I have a workout where I'm following it back to back. Like those are the two times I think I tend to do like technique type days. Do you guys remember when you pieced this together for clients? Like I distinctly, it was a while too. I'd probably been training people for at least a few years. And I remember I had a conversation with a client who would work out on their own and then see me like a couple of days a week and then come in on their own one or two days a week. And because they would come in on their own in the gym that I worked in or managed, I would see them work out. I would always have to walk over off session. I'm not training them in correct their form. Every time I remember being like just so annoying when you're on your own, this is what I would think, right? When you're on your own, you work out terribly. It's like I have to constantly watch you. So I told them, I said, hey, when you come to the gym on your own, I don't want you to work out anymore. All I want you to do is I want you to practice the exercises that we do together and just see if you can make them perfect, like practice the skill of them. And they said, you sure? Is that gonna be hard enough? I'm like, I said, yeah, just do that for now. And they did and they got way better results. And that was it. That was the way I communicated it from then on to anybody who worked out. As I said, hey, don't come, because when you say workout, that to me, not to me, but to most people means I'm gonna go get sore and get sweaty and get tired. And then what happens is the exercises are arbitrators and we matter what I'm doing. As long as I sweat and get sore, I had a great workout. It's like, that's not how it works. There's a skill to the exercise and each exercise provides a distinct value. And that value is very closely connected to the skill and the technique of how you perform that particular exercise. Otherwise the exercises don't matter. This is one of the big problems I have with circuit training and classes where they use weights, but they're really not doing strength training is you watch people work out and I'm like, man, you can put together any five exercises you want and it's gonna be exact. They're just burning calories. They're just moving. There's no skill, there's no technique. Like, okay, I know you're switching five different exercises, but in reality, it doesn't matter. You can do five, you can make up five things. You got a pair of dumbbells and shake your head and twist in a circle. And it's the same thing that you're doing now because you're not deriving any value from the exercises because there's no skill and technique that's being involved. Yeah, I remember very specifically when that happened for me as a trainer was because I had like this window with a client where I would be able to kind of draw up and take them through all the exercises and build up their workouts. But then I finally had a client that was like, I only have one day a week that I can come in and learn and do it. So it was very challenging for me being that I had everything kind of systematically written up and then I was like gonna have my whole systems and process of how I did things and it shook it all up for me. And so I had to learn that we're just gonna start with this one major lift and I want you to really focus on this and here's everything I want you to do with it and you're gonna practice this all week. And then we would move to another one once they got a good, once they felt proficient enough with that lift and I kind of moved on and they had like better success than some other clients I was just taking through like your full gamut of exercises. Well, do you remember, I bet you all of us are identical with this, the workouts that you would do with your clients early days as a trainer versus later days. If you looked at the workouts, the differences would be those early workouts or those early days were so many different exercises, so many different movements, combinations of movements, you know, like we never did the same workout twice. Then the second half when we figured it out was like, wow, that looks super basic. You're doing the same four exercises almost every workout and then you throw in a couple of new ones. Like, and the funny thing is, second half of my career, I was a super effective trainer. First half of my career, I was a terribly ineffective trainer and it was because I did not give them time or focus on learning the skill of these. It was really just about how many new exercises I could show the person in different ways I can make them sweat and razzle-dazzle them each time. Razzle-dazzle. Razzle-dazzle. You know, this conversation reminds me of a conversation that I had with the NCI group and I've openly criticized group training for a long time, right? And one of the trainers there, we were kind of like brainstorming on ideas on how to do group training with integrity, right? Like, how do I teach these? You've heard me recommend before the Prime Pro webinar as like a great way to do that. If I were to go back and do group training, I would be okay with doing something like that. Another one that another trainer had as an idea and I just, I hadn't thought of that. And I thought, man, that is a brilliant idea. And what a cool time to try and implement this because we are heading into a, probably for trainers, it was gonna be some of the toughest times in the next year to two years with where we're heading economically. And thinking of like, how do I continue to scale or build my business? And this trainer has, you wanted to create these group classes that were centered around teaching one lift. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I love that. I was there for that. I love that. Yeah, great. I love that idea of, and it's something that I hadn't thought of as a trainer that I think if I were to go back, I would totally do this where, sign up for my six week course on how to squat. And as we meet once a week and it's everything from priming to working on any sort of common breakdowns that people have to technique I mean, I could see that being a really valuable, four to six week course that people could sign up for and take it in a group setting. And even though I don't like training in groups because you're focused on just one movement, you could really take. You could break that movement up and do one piece and then walk around. Yes. And then what? Yeah. So I just, I really, really liked that idea. So for those coaches and trainers that are listening that are not already in the NCI group, I thought that was a really good idea. Well, I mean, just to add to this, like one of the things that makes strength training in particular, such a tremendously valuable form of exercise, one thing that makes it extremely unique and valuable in comparison to any other form of exercise because all forms of exercise have value. But strength training, one of the things that strength training has that no other form of exercise really has is the tool belt that you have with strength training is massive and the ability to individualize workouts and the amount of exercises that you have at your disposal. Like no other form of exercise does this. Like I could use strength training on anybody. I can't say that about running, cycling, swimming, yoga, Pilates. Like they have a style. Strength training has exercises, but here's the deal. What makes a squat a squat? The technique and the skill. What makes a press a press? The technique and the skill. It's not what makes a squat a squat, the fact that you work your legs or that a press works your shoulders. It's the technique and the skill. And if the technique and the skill isn't being applied properly, you are no longer doing a squat. So this is the most important part of your workout. And if you're missing this, you might as well take 30% of your progress off or more because your skill is off and all you're concerned about is, are my quads tired? Is my back sore? Am I sweating? Like well now don't do strength training. Do something else because you're wasting your time with the entire thing. So and I like to communicate that because again, this is so valuable. And if you do this, it'll make a really, really big difference in your progress. All right, today's giveaway is MAPS Split. This is a advanced bodybuilding style workout program. I'm gonna give it away for free. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode. Subscribe to this channel and also turn on notifications. And then what we'll do is we'll go through the comments and if we pick you as the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section that you won MAPS Split. We also have a sale going on this month. We took our best at home workout programs, MAPS Anywhere, MAPS Suspension, MAPS Prime and the No BS Six Pack formula, put them together in a bundle and discounted them heavily. So the normal price for all of them combined would be over $330. But right now you can get them in the at home holiday bundle for only $99.99. If you're interested in signing up or you just want to learn more, all you got to do is click on the link at the top of the description below to get set up. All right, here comes the show. Anyways, I want to tell you guys about a funny conversation I had yesterday with my son. So I had the opportunity to hang out one-on-one with my oldest. You know, I got obviously four kids or whatever. Sometimes it's hard to do that like that one-on-one time, but it's super, makes such a big difference when you take one of your kids away from everybody and just hang out and have conversation. It was really fun. It was funny and we got to have a good time. And then we started kind of telling stories. And I was telling him, I've told this story a long time ago on the podcast, but he thought it was so funny. He kind of brought it up. So I've told this also. So a long time ago, we went over to my parents' house and when my son was little, I'd tell him stories about his grandfather, my dad. They'd be like, I'd be like, man, my dad's so strong and he used to do this, that, you know, I think my son kind of half believed me, half thought I was like, you know, telling tall tales or whatever. Anyway, went over to my parents' house. This happened like, I think a year or two ago, I talked about it on the podcast. The chair? Yeah. And we told my dad and I said, show him. You know, I said, you know, the medical thinks that you're, you know, I'm making half of this stuff up. My dad goes over to this like old fashioned, heavy wooden dining room table chair. So like these things are like 40 pounds, 50 pounds, whatever. And he goes, I bet I could lift the chair from the floor by holding one of the legs and keeping my arm straight and just coming straight up with it. My son's like, you can't do that. Anyway, he did it. After that, my son was like, I don't understand. So anyway, we were telling the stories. He brought that up. And he goes, I still don't understand how no-no did that. I don't get it. He's got arthritis. He walks crooked because his back hurts. I said, I had an experience like that when I was like your age. When I was like 16 maybe, 17, my grandfather, so my dad's dad, so you're talking about like, my dad grew up poor and whatever. My grandfather grew up where, you know, he lived in a, it was like a cement, basically room with, you know, I don't know, seven siblings, a donkey and his parents. And this was just, this is where they grew up. Yeah, in the same room. They used to- Really? Yeah. When it was cold, you're gonna leave the donkey out. Where are you gonna put the donkey? They don't have a backyard. Dang. Uncle, you never told that part of the story. Bro, in the same house. It's such a crucial part. Bro, and he's got all this, you know, he used to divide the room with sheets, with sheet. First of all- I feel like I could never tell- Was there a danger? I could never tell poor stories ever again, dude. Oh, yeah. I can't, I can't. And now when he lived with the donkey, Adam's like, I didn't have cable when I was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, we had ponies. We didn't have donkeys. Yeah, yeah, different. Yeah, no, no, no, it's, you know how they would divide the room with a sheet. Like my grandma would put like a sheet like this. So you have the donkey, the kids over here and the parents. I remember I told Jessica this the other day because we were trying to find time to get to be intimate, you know, and we got the babies and like it was so hard. You know, put the baby down, oh, this one wakes up. Like how the hell did my grandparents parents have like eight kids? They get the kids right over there in the sheet. Like every time they were intimate, it was like, let's go around the corner real quick. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, just sneaky. There you go. So anyway, I'm telling, I saw them like, dude, I had an experience like that. I was probably 16, two years in the lifting weights. You know, when you're 16, you think you're just the shit. You're full of testosterone. You're all, you know, you're tough or whatever. My grandfather, I believe this was the first time he ever visited America. My dad bought him a ticket and my grandfather came to visit. Well, anyway, he stayed for the summer and in the summer I used to work with my dad. So my dad did construction and I would go help him. And my job as a 16 year old was I'd mix the cement, I'd carry the buckets of cement, I'd wash the tools. Cause my dad would, you know, he'd do, you know, he'd float mud or, you know, do tile or whatever. And mixing cement, it's like a big, you know, tub, huge tub, probably twice as big as this table in front of me. And the way you mix it is you add the sand, the cement, depending on what you're making lime, water, and then you have this huge, this long, it looks like a kind of like a hoe, you know, like you would, you would use in the dirt and you mix it and then you go around the end of them. It's, it's exhausting. Okay. So this is summertime. So my grandfather visits and my dad tells my grandfather, Hey, we're going to go to, you know, tomorrow I have to go to work cause he couldn't take work off. And he goes, you stay home here, you relax, wherever my grandfather was like, like, stay here with, with what? Your wife? What am I going to do? Like I'm coming to work with you. So my dad's like, fuck, I gotta bring my dad somewhere. So my grandfather, who's at the time was probably 67 came to work with us. And my dad says to me in English, Hey, you know, your grandfather's going to help. So he's going to help work or whatever. So you and him are going to work together. Help me. Now I'm 16 years old. So I'm like, oh, it's poor old man. Like, you know, I'm going to try and make sure he doesn't like hurt himself. I don't want to bury him too fast. Well, I wasn't even thinking that. I was just thinking like, I'm going to help my grandfather cause, you know, he's old or whatever. I don't want him to hurt himself. So we go there and it's hot, summertime, you know, San Jose, I don't know, it was like 90 degrees outside. And we got to mix this, this cement, these tubs of cement. My dad was floating this huge floor. So it's like nonstop mixing, right? And I'm looking at my dad and said, what about, no, no, like, what if he gets too hot or too tired? Like, what are we going to do? And he goes, don't worry about your grandfather. He'll be okay. I says, okay. So we go out there and we're mixing cement. And so he's on one end of the tub. I'm on the other end. So I mix it. And when I get my hand done, I kind of flip it over to him and he mixes it. It's hot, right? So we're doing this. And I was told by sub this, he was cracking up. And in my head, I'm like, poor guy, he's going to die, like whatever. Dude, we're doing this. And I'm like, I'm starting to, it's like, I'm starting to die. Like I'm hot. And I'm looking at my grandfather and I'm thinking he's going to pass out or something. Like, you know what he does? He starts whistling. He's whistling music. Woo, woo, woo, passing it back and forth. I see water right over there, a cold jug of water. And it's cold. I know it's cold because it's kind of sweating on the sides or whatever. I'm like, God damn, I want that water so bad. My grandfather didn't stop. We didn't get no water and that was embarrassed to stop. So we're going back and forth, back and forth. And I'm like, this old horse is what is going on here. Anyway, we get home, like I had blisters on my hands that day because I like refused to give up. We got home. I crashed on the couch for like three hours and I wake up and my dad comes over to me and he goes, hey, he goes, your grandfather kicked your ass in the identity. I'm like, how the hell did he do this? And he came home and he did the artwork. I'll tell my son this. And my son goes, how did he do it? Yeah, you know what I think- And those guys from that era, they grew up, like that was a vacation to him, you know? Do you know what's even crazier about that? Is I actually think that you would get your ass kicked more today than you were did at 16. Probably. For sure. Probably. For sure. Like when I was 16, I was resilient enough to like, you know, that stuff, because I did the same stuff, right? It still would kick my ass. But I think how decondition I am in comparison to what I was at 16 and that I don't do that type of a job, if I had to go do that now, so that put that into perspective. He's 60-something years old and he was able to go out there and do that. Imagine you today, I bet you you today would get beat by your 16-year-old self. I would die. Yeah, no. I sneezed the other day and hurt my back, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The fuck? I've done that for fucking- For sure. For sure, I had one of those moments of like, oh my God, I'm getting old, dude. I was driving the truck and, you know, I see, oh, I had one of those like, oh, oh, I deadlifted earlier in the day so my shit was all tight. I'm just like, who'd you like that? And I was like, oh, shit, did I just pull something? Hey, hey, hey, hey, you guys be honest. Embarrassing. You guys be honest right now. Be real honest, OK? Do you guys use your seat heater now to kind of like loosen up your back? Yeah, some days. I haven't thought of it like that. You're in your car. Right side of my hip. That's the first time that's happened to me, though. That's word of God that's never happened to me before. And I was like, oh, that's embarrassing. That's happened to me. Yeah, oh, really? Yeah, and I coughed. I coughed. I had a cough once and I coughed and I threw out my back. Casey, do you remember? So I attributed it to the heavy or the hard, I should say, deadlifting that I had done. Like I was like, OK, maybe because of all the deadlifts I did the other day that my back was really tight. You kind of, yeah, in that state. Yeah, well, it happened to me because I used to like pop a rib out because of practice from football. And like I would get in these collisions and then every now and then like my rib would pop out. And so, you know, even like years later, like just random shit like that would happen. And then it would like pop back out. It'd be like hard to breathe. I need somebody to just step and like walk on my back to get it to pop back. So we got to be we got to be authentic right now. OK, besides our one workouts we do five days a week, four days a week, we sit a lot and have conversations all day. Oh, no, I'm I move less today than I have in a very, very long time in my life. Like I have to really get out and like, I mean, I know we commute in the car too. It's just like, you know, there's a lot of hours spent a day. 100% totally. So when you take somebody that works like physically for a living, yeah, they're moving physically hard for eight hours a day for 20, 30 years, like that's a resilient body. So I lift weights, you know, four or five days a week for an hour. Like I'm not resilient. I'm more resilient than the average. Yeah, but I got better skin. Yeah. Yeah. You're seeing skin on them. Hey, that's so funny. When I when I see like my elderly in my elder family who grew up hella poor in Sicily, they in their 70s, they look like like people who grew up here in their hundreds. Like you look at their skin and like, oh, you're 65. You look like you're under the five. Nobody wants to say that. What did you what did you moisturize with, you know, dirt in the sun? Like what was he doing? Pitchfork and they're just, you know, posing. You ever look at old pictures, by the way? You ever look at old, old black and white photos and then you realize they were 18 years old in the picture? Like, why does he look 37? Yeah, dude. OK, so I'm going to shoe this in. Like I was having a conversation with my brother of the weekend. We did Christmas early and everything and kind of speaking to like things kind of going back in time. So we're talking about the chat GPT and like how this whole thing is just going to disrupt everything. I'm like, dude, this must be crazy because he's a teacher and he teaches like AP history, AP English and all this stuff. And he's like, dude, like all these students are always trying to cheat and like find ways to hack and do all stuff. And I'm like, this must be like rampant. And he's like, yeah, so we literally make them hand write everything. So everything is going back. How wild. Completely full circle. Now it's doing handwritten work and essays in class and they can't type anything. Oh, wow, that's like that's hilarious. What an interesting thought. Wow. Yeah. Because it can't control it. They have to write in class. They have to literally write it out. No more typing reports out. These poor kids are fragile hands. You know, like fucking handcrafts, dude. Oh my God, what is this hour of writing? Oh, yeah. It's so traumatic, dude. Like just wait for the hashtags. Well, initially I thought to myself while handwriting, all I'll do is I'll have a chat be GBT doing them. They'll copy it. Yeah, they have to do in classroom. Yeah. I mean, that's not to mention that's like so redundant to do that. Yeah. Like, I mean, at that point, it's almost like to cheat is like more work. Yeah. I mean, say, you know what I'm saying? Like if you have to go to the chat, GBT, then you got to rewrite it. So you may as well just wrote it the first time yourself. So it makes it does make it even that's smart. I just thought it was the most ironic thing I've ever heard. You know, like we got so far technology wise that like now we literally have to revert back. So, OK, I mean, this is why I actually think this whole that I've been saying forever, the whole unplugged plug thing, the division in the country. Like I really think that's going to happen. I think we're going to go back. I think there's going to be a lot of things like that where we're going to have access. We're going to have the capability to make it easier to make it better. And then I think people are going to choose. So OK, so here's otherwise just be really dumb and be cool with it. Well, I have so here's what I have conflicting thoughts about that. Right. On what part? Well, on my part or the what he's no, no, no, with with making the kids right in class, I get that. I get that rationale, by the way. So I'm not saying I disagree with it, but then I get this thought, which is. If the future of markets and the economy and jobs and careers, the future of many things, if not all things, is going to involve working with some form of AI. And so the skill, the skills required to be effective or no longer can you figure it out yourself? The skills are going to be. How can you work with this device in better ways? What what what what industry do you guys see this disrupting the biggest and first? Oh, right now. Copywriting right now, right away. Copywriting immediately. Yeah. Immediately. I don't disagree with that. I think that's a good that's a good guess. Yeah, I'm trying to think like marketing. Yeah, like it's got to be like the whole legal process, right? Because anything where you have like everything written out and then you have to be able to read through it all, you can just ask it to, you know, summarize it all for you. And I'm sure it'll make that process. You know, the hard part of that question, Adam, is it's so hard to even I have to sit and think really hard because it's so different. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to. Well, that's right. It's a fun exercise to try because we're probably wrong. It'll probably disrupt something we're not even thinking about. Yeah, I'm saying like shipping. I know the truth is, you know, we don't know and it's hard to guess. I think that that's a good initial customer service. I could see it rushing customer service. Oh, there you go. That's probably already happening. Yeah, well, think about how shitty customer services you call and they already have AI try to talk to you. But oh, my God, I didn't even show it. Did you guys just never look when I saw what do is do I have to put something like do I need to put like an asterisk or like because the last thing I said was like, wow, wow, holy shit. And I know you didn't even fucking open it. And I'm like, what do I need to say to get you guys open that this isn't just like because I know we have a thread right with this thread where we share ideas and stuff that we should talk on the podcast. And it gets kind of sometimes muddied with like half nude pictures and like random like dad jokes. And it's like, OK, allegedly, those are close. But then every once in a while, why would you say that? That's not true with these are all false claims. I'm looking forward to you getting in trouble. You're a fact checker. Like warning next to Adam, little fact check. We don't do that. First of all, Doug's daughter looks at his phone all the time. That would be stupid. Anyway, we would never do that. He literally did that specifically to get us fucking in trouble. That's not true. Anyway, continue. Anyways, otherwise. Unless it's a photo of yourself. You said no, sometimes for sure. I'm in a bear rug. I can't help it. Yeah, I'm in. Hey, guys, check out my watch. Like, bro, put pants on. So my point is, did you guys see what the Andrew Hubermans is? And it was actually Enzo who sent that to me and said, you guys need to do this. Imagine somebody who comes into our ecosystem right now. If we had that software built and like automatically feed you all the episodes or exactly at the minute marks, all the white papers we've written. Also, you can say, hey, show me the episode. Pull up. Go to our, please, Doug, go to our thread. Since none of you frickers, I know I didn't know this stuff. I can't believe these names. I like how you didn't say the F word. I know, sis. You fricker. I was, I was looking. You're so, you're so bad at that same. Flip floppers. Doug always gives me a hard time for swearing too much. That's why. So I was looking at him, looking at him, not trying not to. So I think Hubermans. What the hell's a fricker? Frick. Did you pull it up, Doug? I'm getting it right now. Yeah. So, so you ask Huberman AI and so all you had to do is, is type in a question and, and I mean, let's, I don't think he has as much written content and audio and videos we have. So, and we've been talking about this. I mean, we have a customer service team that this is what they do long form right now. We, we field a hundred emails a day. So we just need an AI bot to literally just like consume all our stuff and then just shoot it out. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to say our customer service team. It's about to get replaced. Sorry, guys. Yeah. Right here. Right here. See this? Yeah. Letters in the mail. What am I looking for? So if you were to, if that little bar, well, Doug could type in anything and see how, see how well it works. If you, I haven't. Well, here's what it says. How can I build muscle? And then there's a bunch of, there's Dr. Andy Galpin. There's Jeff Cavalier. Well, no, this is what, so this is what people have been saying. So basically this will be a far more accurate, easier, more effective search engine. Yeah. That you can be very specific with and get the answer. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and then imagine what, like what he's done here. So you know, you know what this highlights to me? Building into our own ecosystem. You know what this highlights to me is that people need to be very careful when they see a dominant player in the market. Be very careful at assuming that that particular player is going to be dominant forever and no one could possibly ever overtake them. What are you saying about that? What are you talking about Google versus the AI? Exactly. Because things innovate and what we think now can never be replaced or changed. Yeah. That's what innovation is like. This is going to change. That's so, that is so false. Doug, pull this stat up. I've brought this up on the podcast before. In 50 years, how much of the S&P will have turned over? Yeah, most of it, like 90 percent. Yes. Yeah, I know. That's in 50 years time, like 90 percent of the company that are like the leading companies right now will not be there. That's the reason why. That's crazy. Exactly. But yet people will say things like, you know, we need to make laws to prevent the world being so big. Yeah. You know, it's like, don't worry, it's going to happen. Speaking of powerful media and all that stuff. So, man, you see a Twitter boy is Elon is he's launching all kinds of files out there. Yeah. So, and he kicked, he suspended a few accounts. Okay. So how do you feel about, how do you feel about some of the stuff that he's doing right now? Is it being received? It's not being received well at all right now. Because he came out, he exactly. So, so, okay. So here's the main thing. There is an account that tracks in real time where he's at with his jet, with his private jet. Doxxing, right? It's, it's well, it's technically, yes, essentially, right? In real time. So what happened was apparently one of his kids, there was a potential threat because through this, they thought he was on the, he thought, they thought he was on the private plane. It was really his kid on the private plane. Somebody, some, some crazy person rolled up. We don't want violence unless it's not what we like. Yeah. Then violence. So I, now this is, it's all public information. In other words, you could technically figure this out yourself. You still find it on Reddit. Yeah. But I, I get where he's coming from. I do think that. Well, the hypocrisy, though, is that he, like, he's supposed to be this huge advocate for free speech. This is free information that is on the internet anywhere else. And so now you're blocking it from being put on your platform. It is a bit hypocritical. Now, do I not? Okay. Do I think it's as bad as what all the, the liberal people that were in charge of Twitter? No, he's just blocking like his travel schedule. Not his travel schedule. He's not allowing pages that track people in real time where they're at. So that's become like a popular thing where like, you know, there's people that will track like Bill Gates and himself and like some, like super, like famous people. And so, you know, I get that, by the way, you know, okay. So here's what, no, I think, I think that I understand why. So here's the thing. Are you, are who the, the Elon or you understand why I stand? Yeah, I understand why people are doing. No, when you look at the Twitter files and what they released, the censorship was definitely in one direction and it was politically motivated. So there's different kinds of speech that we have and political speech should be the most protected because you're talking about entities that have the ability to legislate and jail people and execute people. They have those legal powers. Um, so you need to be able to keep that as free as possible. Now, here's the other end of it. I don't think he found an angle. I don't think Elon ever said, uh, you know, we should let people say terribly racist things or we should let people threaten each other or any of that stuff. No, he just got that. He got, he kicked Kanye off. Oh, yeah, right. So yeah. So he's, he's, he's, he's, yeah. By the way, speaking of which, you want to talk about selective outrage? Okay. Here's how annoying. This is how stupid the game is for anybody who's like, oh, Elon's a hypocrite, like, you know, I wish I could slap people through the camera right now. And here's why. Uh, Kanye says some anti-Semitic shit gets banks, don't allow them to bank with them, kick off media. Like literally people trying to destroy him. Blanche, Yaga still banks with everybody they want to bank with, still has people holding their money, investing with them. And they're literally posting pictures of that same argument holds for people that want like really highly regulated gun laws and no guns. But then the, they're protected by people's guns. Yeah. Yeah. That's another. So, okay. So I think, I think it was a bad move on his part. Do I understand it? Of course I understand it was my family. I'd probably do some, some crazy knee jerk reaction like that too. But I still think it was a knee jerk reaction because it threatened his family as all of us as fathers probably would too. So, so understandably, but not a smart play because it, because of the hypocrisy in it, I think the move, the smarter move would have been, okay, right now I'm in the middle of this shit storm with Twitter, I need to keep my family tight, close, well protected, whether that means the guys got billions of dollars, spend a few hundred thousand dollars on freaking a couple of rambos that fall all your kids around. And so you didn't get to worry about some crazy person, whatever. Take that approach for now until the dust settles with this. So that unless, unless he's playing 40 chess and this is still all, because here's, when he did the whole thing about the, the voting him, that to me, that like everybody was like, oh, and of course the left is making a huge deal about it, that more people voted for him, not, he knew that. So I think that he already has a CEO who's set to go and he, You're talking about the polls he's doing? Yes, the poll that he put out there. Well, because he did a poll on the, on the, on suspending these accounts and most people said, yes, people who dox other people should be kicked off. Oh wow, he, he lifted it. Yeah. Yeah. He lifted it. Yep. So he is, he is, now that's a cool move right there. Wow. That's a cool move. Yeah. So he did a poll and now he lifted the suspension. Here's why I don't like the poll stuff. Polls can easily be skewed. And also I don't think you should run your company by, uh, like popular opinion, uh, because that'll destroy your company. Yeah. I mean, yes and no. I mean, but that's also a smart way to do it. Yeah. Politically speaking. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a smart way to, yeah, a smart way to do it right there. What's that one thing about, uh, go down, go right, uh, what does that say? Oh, that's, oh, go back up. Oh, that wasn't Elon who did that. No, he did do, I thought he said Alex Jones. No, he did do one that said, um, should I step down a CEO? Yeah. And, uh, majority of people said yes. Right. So, and I think he, I think he planned to. Yeah. Yeah. I think he planned to anyways, I think he has a CEO in line already. And I think he just, he's set the table. Do you know who wants him to step down more than anybody? It's people want him to go away. So he doesn't get. No, no, because I think he'll have a CEO that follows along with. Of course he owns the company still. It's like he's still in control of it. Do you know who wants him to step down a CEO? Tesla investors. Of course. Cause they think it's going to take some of his time away from the companies that as soon as he steps down, watch Tesla stock go up. Sure. Because they're afraid that he's spread too thin. Yeah. That he just can't, that he can't do it all and all that stuff. So we'll see what happens. But what's interesting to me is how organized this concentrated effort to bring him down is and how silly it is. Considering that the man probably has done more for preventing the ill effects of, you know, pollution, climate change, innovation, space travel than anybody. And these are things that the same people who are going after him supposedly value. Um, so it just, it's really interesting to me. Well, it's just interesting to me to have, I can't even still have conversations about any of those files. Like people just don't want to accept it as a reality or something. Like it's just not even like, ah, it's all, you know, bullshit or whatever. Like it's like, you got to like, you can't even like consider the fact that like they're going in there and like doing an audit and finding like, this is valid information. Yeah, I think, I think David Sacks brought a really good point up on all in with this whole Elon situation and saying like where it's different is what they were censoring before compared to what he's. It was all politically motivated. Yeah. And he's also transparent. Yeah. What they did before is they would shadow ban you. So you had no idea. Well, there's clear evidence that FBI was involved in this. Very clear. So it's like, like, who doesn't have a problem with that? You should definitely have a problem with that. Yeah, totally. It's crazy. Some people don't, dude. All right. Let's get into some, some studies. Can you do a commercial first? We have two commercials. We haven't even done one. Yeah. What do you want to talk about? Well, do the sleep me one. Let's talk about sleep me. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, for people who don't know, they changed their name. So they used to be called. Okay. What's, what is hard is that it's been, it's been referred to as chili pad and then Uler and then now sleep me as the company. Sleep me is the company. Right. So these are devices that go on your bed and can warm or cool your bed and maintain the temperature. And you can have the app adjusted so that it warms up slowly in the morning to naturally wake you up. And, uh, this has profound positive effects on your sleep, profound. And I speak, I'm speaking from personal experience, but also studies will show. This makes a big difference. So it's also one of the products that I think all of us consistently all use. Right. There's all, I mean, I would say most of products, you know, two or three of us will consistently use me. One guy, not so much. It's up there with one of the, it's one of the partners that every one of us have on our, on our beds and it's like swear by it. Like this has been what I haven't been able to use. And I love somebody who's a listener who's, who's bought a new one is the new doc pro. Yeah. The doc pro, so that my, my one critique, my one critique of the ruler was that, that I had to, it took me a while to figure out the timing of when I needed to turn it on so that would keep my temperature perfect all night. Early on, I made the mistake of thinking that I, oh, I could just turn it on in a half hour before I get in the bed. That didn't give the, they didn't give the ruler enough time to bring, because I like it so low, bring it all the way low. And what I found was if you get your hot body in that bed, while it's hot, yeah, real hot. And it's trying to cool it down all night. It's working and it never reaches that low temperature you want. So you have to get it all the way down first, where I think the doc pro, like it's, I don't know how much faster and how much more powerful it is than the ruler, but I know that it's even more, uh, quiet. Yeah. In terms of it. So that doesn't, but it's, I like the white noise effect. Yeah. So I, and I like, mind it, just, you know, some people do. Yes. Five times more cooling power. Five times. Five times. Holy cow. Yeah. I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to upgrade mine. I freeze a shed. I'm going to have to upgrade mine. Well, it just makes it nicer because there's been times where, you know, I get to bed earlier than other nights and like it hasn't had the total. Do you have it on timer? Yeah. It's all set on. Yeah. I have mine all set up for cooling at a certain time and heating up in the, in the morning time. Um, but I haven't tried the doc pro and I didn't know it was that much stronger. I might switch it out. Maybe I can get a deal with them. Dude, before we get to studies, I have to share a picture. I'm going to send it to Doug so he could post it, uh, on, uh, on the, on the screen up there. Doug, I'm going to send you a picture right now. So every once in a while, I see a picture of like, when, you know, when people do like sanctioned fighting, like Muay Thai boxing or whatever. And then it just reminds me of why I would never want to do a sport like this. Is it what happened to their face? Yeah. I, yeah, just this guy got Doug, maybe you can post the picture up on the screen. So this guy is a Muay Thai fighter and, uh, I don't know if you can switch it up. And, uh, he got, he took an elbow to the forehead. Okay. So I don't know if you guys know, so elbows can be extremely powerful. Oh yeah. And definitely for, so produce, there's his, uh, there's a permanent. He, it will fracture to skull right in front of his head. He's got a third eye. It looks like it fractured. Yeah, bro. It's like a planet. If you look at a planet after a meteor hit it, now, will that return? Or is he like forever fucked metal plate or something? Right. Is that what they'll have to do? Yeah. I would think, wow, that's brutal, brutal sport. You know, it's, you know, it's crazy. Like a little bit of a black eye, maybe a swollen lip, like, you know, like the next day, like kind of cool. Like what happened to your eye, bro? I'm a fighter when they fracture the orbital bone and like their whole face just now turns into an alien. But imagine, imagine you show up like that somewhere with a, like a, like a big ass dent in the front of your head. What the fuck? What happened to your head? At the same time, too, you got to be a little scared to say something to that person. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, that's war. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not, I'm not fucking, especially if he's got the cauliflower ears going at the same time, too. It's like, yeah, I'm going to say nothing. What happened to your mind? Yeah, scary. All right. Studies. I'm going to pull. So I read a cool study on, uh, digital devices. And, and when they're used to calm down children, meaning, you know, you're, you're busy or whatever and your kids act. Oh, interesting. And you're like, here's an iPad. Here's the TV. Okay. So what were they, what were they looking for? What was the hypothesis? Well, there was, I don't know about the hypothesis, but I'll tell you what they found. So this came out of the Michigan, the University of Michigan. Okay. So summary, frequent use of devices like smartphones and tablets to calm upset children. Ages three to five was associated with increased emotional dysregulation in kids. Wow. So now what they said, Share that, share that with me. Would you share it or thread? So they said, the reason why this happens is that it prevents the child, especially during these critical ages, you know, three to five, it prevents them from learning how to regulate their own emotions. So they, they, they do it through distraction. And they never, they end up not learning the skill of calming themselves. Right. So then when they're in school or whatever, when they don't get the tablet or phone, intrinsically, they don't have the skill. Yeah. So then they can't, they're diss, they have dysregulation and those are critical times when they're, you know, when at that age. How, what was the, how it says frequent use, what is that considered once a day, five times a day, once a week, what would the study you know what, let me see, because that would make a difference. Right. If you're constantly, every time the kid cries, you use that, you know, multiple times a day to do that versus the person who maybe once in a blue moon. It only says as a regular go to soothing strategy. So I would assume, I would assume it's, it's regularly in other words, like on a mostly day, you know, it's funny you bring this up. Last night we had Katrina and I, I was so happy and proud of my wife for bringing this up because this is like a big deal for me. Um, you know how I'm always talking about, you know, manufacturing adversity for my son and that I'm so concerned that he's going, he's being raised in a different type of environment than I was. And I know how important it is to, to, to be challenged somewhat growing up, right. Um, you know, he's the, he's an only child with her and I, he's the baby of the family. Everybody like showers him with gifts. And she said something to me on the way back from Gilroy Gardens last night and she's like, you know, I really, um, you know, I want us to, to practice telling Max no for the sake of no, because you know, he's, he's an only child. So he gets a lot of yes from us already. And then he gets spoiled from all of his aunts and uncles, right? So he's constantly being told that. And so, and she's like, you know, I was thinking about the other day, she's like, I can't even remember the last time that he asked for something or wanted to do something. And the answer was no. And I'm like, oh, I'm so glad you're talking about this now because I just foresee what a problem this is going to be. If we don't practice that, if we don't practice, just and it doesn't have to be like a big deal that, you know, we were driving home and we were listening to Christmas music and he wanted to listen to his stuff. And Katrina's like, no, you know, and she's like, you know, is that something normally that we would just do? Yeah. You know, just we transitioned to like listening to some his stuff just to because he asked and we're cute. But it's like, we don't ever say no. And so saying no for the sake of no, because it's important that he learns that and then learns to cope with it. That's it. He has to learn how to deal with the fact. And then afterwards, he was a little fussy about it. It's like, no, just don't play into it. Don't make a big deal about it. It's no, no, mommy and daddy are listening to this right now. And so what's cool about this article is they actually give you alternatives. And Jessica is really good at this. She says, you know, when, because we have a two year old, when he's kind of throwing a fit or whatever, it's because he can't, he can't regulate his own emotions yet. He's only two. And if you punish him for not being able to regulate his emotions, all he learns is shame. Mommy and daddy don't like the fact that I can't control this thing. So you're trying to logic them. It doesn't work. What you need to do is you've got to kind of be there with them. And there's a few things that you can do. And they actually talked about this in the article, which is amazing. Number one is a sensory technique. So these are things that help them alleviate the physical sensations that they're overwhelmed with. And some of them include swinging, hugging, pressure, you know, jumping on a trampoline, listening to music, you know, looking at something sparkly, just helping them learn how to like, cause they have this physical like feeling and they just don't know how to deal with it yet. The other one is to name the emotion and what to do with it. So I can see now, I can tell that you're really upset and it's really tough for you. So help them name kind of what's going on. Offer replacement behaviors. Jessica is really good at this. So like, if he's playing with like, he has cars that he plays with and sometimes you'll throw them. And we don't want him to throw them because he could hit his infant sister with them. So instead of being like, don't throw cars, we'll be like, hey, throw this instead. And we'll give them like fluffy socks or something like that. So you're giving them a replacement behavior. So rather than saying, don't do this, do this instead. You know, it's so hard giving advice around kids, you know, I try and catch myself sometimes because I recognize that I have an amazing kid who is like, is really easy. And so I never want to make someone feel like, oh, if you just do this, it'll happen. So I'm always very careful about like giving, giving like advice with like their kids and stuff like that. The one thing that I can say that I think is like, and it's just like a general role that I feel makes such a difference is just learning not to react. I think that, and that's the biggest difference that I can see of in myself. Totally. If I was 25 versus being 40. So much more effective, right? Right, just a simple fact, if he can be mad, he can do, he can act out and I don't change. Yes. That is the thing that I think is. It can be emotional, but you gotta kind of be able to let them be emotional. That's right. And I'll bring your emotions in. Exactly. I feel like there's all kinds of different cool tactics and strategies to handle it or do this instead, but the most important thing I think that anybody could take away and consistent with all kids is just that you as the adult have to stay consistent and calm. Which, by the way, can be very, very challenging. It's very, to me, that's why it's the number one focus. It's like that in itself is a task because you have stress. You and your partner get into it sometime. There's a lot of variables that will make this exponentially more difficult. And so if you can just nail that one thing down, that when your kid is acting out or acting crazy. Well, this is too, yeah, where your partner is like, you gotta be able to lean on them sometimes because it is hard. And you're like, and they catch it when you are getting emotional and reacting and then they let me, let me, I'll do this for Courtney and she'll sometimes do this for me. Let me take it over. Yeah, just let me take it like I got this and then they'll, you know, oh, thank you. Cause like I was getting too riled up like into the fact that they're getting emotional about it. It was affecting me. But yeah, that's like, half of that is like, they're trying to figure out how to calm themselves. That's all part of this developmental process. Like you've got to let them experience and figure that out without like, you know, like imposing this, this rigidity around that. Like you can only do it this way. But like, yeah, like for me it's, I can't get emotionally involved. I have to like be very consistent. Like here's, you know, you can process this, however you need to, but like, you're going to have to figure out how to do this because you can't react like this. Every time something doesn't go your way. You just can't do that. Yeah, and your kid will remember, rather than remembering what you're trying to teach them, they're going to remember dad was yelling. Yeah, how you acted. That's it. 100% Doug, what is this episode air? It airs on December 27th. Oh, so after Christmas, but I will say this, if your family buys you stuff that you don't like, here's what I recommend. Take it back, get your money back and go to Viori. Because they got stuff. That is amazing. I promise you'll like it. There's the ultimate pitch, right? He's the best athlete you've ever seen. I have a buddy that I've been telling about Viori for years now. And he's like one of my, one of my more fashionable friends. And he just, he just called me two days ago for our discount code for it. And he's like one of those dudes who's like, you know, he's got his own style on his thing. And so like, and I'm probably, he probably thinks this of me, right? So he'll show, oh, you should check this out. I'm like, ah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Nobody tells me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Nobody tells me how to dress. You want to say, I got this, you know? So he's been, he's been that guy forever. And I've been trying to introduce it to him forever. And then of course I just, you know, haven't said anything to him in years about it. And he messaged me. I, he's, you know what it was, is those corduroy, those corduroy are sick. I really like the corduroy pants that they have. I like the longs, they have them on right now. You know what's funny is, so I, I don't know. I guess I picture Viori Moore as like a coastal kind of style. Like, because it's a leisure wear, but it's also, I don't know, like, you know, you just tend to see a lot more people like. I think most of their stores are like that. Yeah, they're like up on the coast. So anyway, I was like reconnecting with my friends from college and he lives in Kansas and is, was all dripped out in, in Viori. And I was, I was tripping out on that because I'm like, you're in Kansas and you're wearing like all Viori. And I guess it's like, you know, he's trying to be like super fashionable, but like in Kansas. So there you go. That's awesome. Who's shouting out today? Who had a shout out today? Oh, uh. Oh yeah. I'm going to shout out Uncle Lazer. So, oh, Uncle Lazer. Oh, Lazer. Uncle Lazer. I don't know how you pronounce it. He's hilarious. I don't know if that's how you pronounce it or not, but it was like my favorite line. Bro, he's funny. Trash kind of a comedian. Yeah. So it's at Uncle under. So, you know, you know, it's funny. He's funny dude. I, I just obviously was not planned because we didn't talk about this. The guy I'm talking about with Viori is the one who introduced me to him. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. He's, he's the one who sent me, sent me this guy and he's been sending me him for a long time. I actually didn't start, didn't start following him until after about the third or fourth when he sent me I was, okay, this dude's pretty funny. I'm going to start following him. So I like that. Yeah. He's all underground now, but he's really like getting a lot of followers. Yeah. It's humor is great. Hey, check this out. OrganiFy is a company we've been with for a long time. They have superfood blends that make it easy and enjoyable to add more variety and nutrition to your day. They're delicious organic powders that you can add to water, stir with a spoon and enjoy any time of the day for energy, better nutrition, hormone balance and peace of mind. By the way, they have a new product called Peek Power. Take this before you work out. It'll jazz you up. It's, it's very strong, but it's calming at the same time. So calm, focused, strong energy. I helped design the product. But again, they have many, many, many other products. They're all organic. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump and then use the code mind pump for 20% off. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is David from Germany. David, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hi, how you doing fellas? Good, man. Oh, I'm living the dream. I'm living the dream, no complaints. So I had a bit of an interesting one, right? So context of it. I'm a pretty big fella, right? I'm 16 to 260 pounds. I fluctuate between like 12 and like 16% body fat, right? Cool, awesome. I'm getting a point now. I'm getting a little older and carrying your weight around is taking a bit of a toll, right? Like I'm starting to feel it. Back when I was 25, 21, you know, early, nothing. I was good. Now it's getting a little bit more difficult. So we always talk about like recomp, right? But it's usually in regards to, you know, bigger guys trying to get more muscular and switching over to a more muscular build. What's your guys advice? Cause I can't find anything on recomp from a fairly muscular wall down to something a little bit more lean. I'm not really interested in getting skinny per se, but I could drop down to 220 and I'd be comfortable, you know? Yeah, what's your body weight now? Around 260. 260? You're a big boy. Oh man, you're a big boy. Yeah, I mean, you're gonna, you could change your training. You could focus more on stamina, endurance, mobility. Mobility goes a long way by the way with making your body feel more comfortable. And then it would be food intake, cutting calories. Probably the easiest way just to lose like pounds on the scale is a low carbohydrate diet. Not because it burns more body fat, but because you'll also lose some water weight. So just lighter, you'll just be lighter. And when there's a guy your size, if I have somebody your size telling me, I'll feel more comfortable feeling lighter, I tend to push them in that direction because you do lose body fat with the low calorie, any kind of diet, but cutting carbohydrates, you tend to lose more weight because of the water weight as well. And people tend to feel more comfortable that way. The answer is actually really easy and simple, but very difficult to do. And it's difficult not because the task is so hard, but so the psychological part. Typically guys like us that put on all that mass like you like it. You like it. Adam throws himself in there. Guys like us. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you guys don't know what it's like to walk around 240, so that you know what I'm saying? Hey listen, I was there, what are you talking about? These little guys, you know what I'm saying? They don't understand, so. This guy's in a different category, Adam. I hate to break into you, bro. No, when you, that's gonna be the hardest part, I think, for you is gonna be the psychological part of shrinking down because you probably are, used to be in the biggest dude in the room. You fill out all your shirts and you know, unfortunately when you start going the other direction, you will probably see yourself different than what everybody else does. You lose 15, 20 pounds and you're gonna go, oh my God, I'm getting skinny or I'm losing all kinds of muscle. Everybody else is gonna be like, you look amazing. So I think the psychological part is gonna be the hardest thing. Simply cutting your calories and starting to become a guy who runs every once in a while. You'll drop, you'll definitely drop some size and weight for sure and I think you'd be fine. You know who's going through this is our good buddy, Ben Pacolski. Have you ever heard him talk about this? No, no, I haven't, I haven't. Okay, so Ben Pacolski, you know who Ben Pacolski is? Yeah. So I mean, he was like 300 and something pounds and when we first linked up with him, this was like exactly the transition in his life that he was going through where he's like, now he's all longevity focused and he knows that is, you know, he's getting older and the carrying that kind of weight just doesn't feel any good. So he's been on this mission to lose like a hundred pounds of muscle intentionally. And it's been really interesting to watch, watch him go through that process. And you know, of course, the grass is always green on the other side. Everybody hearing that goes like, oh, it must be nice but you see him and how difficult it is to do that like to go that other direction. And I imagine the psychological part has to be one of the greatest hurdles. David, what would actually help me answer this better is finding out why you wanna go down and body weight. What is it that you feel uncomfortable with? Is it stamina? Is it joint? Joint? Yeah, I think it's, I'm feeling it more in my joints. So like I played rugby for six years when I was younger. I was in the Marine Corps. I was a heavy machine gunner in the infantry, a lot of weight, motorcycle accidents. So like I'm becoming more familiar with my fragility if you will as I'm getting older. And like I'm like my knees and shit kind of hurt. You know what I'm saying? And so even just walking around regularly, so like I've tailored my workouts to be less, you know, I'm not putting up 400 pounds squatting out for reps, you know, I'm trying to do like lighter weights and more endurance training, but it's just, it's not the weight cause the fat comes off fairly easy for me. You know, when I wanna tailor my diet and slim down, it's great, but I have no idea how to really drop down like the density or like the muscle, like my mat, my muscle. Basically I don't know how to shave that off. David, this is a mobility thing. I'm gonna tell you right now, you'd be very surprised if you focused on mobility, flexibility, range of motion, how much better you'll feel without even having to lose that much weight. Now, if you change your diet so that you got leaner, that would help, but you're training, focusing on mobility, focusing on connecting to different ranges of motion. Mass performance, mass performance. Oh, mass performance and map symmetry, I think would go a long way with making you, and if you're in prime and prime pro with the more specific, that'll make a big difference. In many cases, when you take, when you're talking about feeling joint pain, you don't even have to lose weight. You just have to improve your mobility and connection. Although the losing weight and being in a cut is going to help. It's gonna tamp down inflammation, it's gonna bring down the body weight a little bit. I would love to see you run mass performance in a cut. That program, like, I think will address the way you feel right now, and I bet going through that in a calorie deficit would give you exactly what you want. Yup. That's also, that's exactly what I was looking for. Because my go-to is actually like, I work with split a lot. I like the rhythm, I like the weights, I like the whole thing, but it's just, it's not working out for me for the goals that I'm trying to transition to. So that's super helpful. You know, even David, I mean, mass performance will send that to you because I think that's a great, that's great advice from Adam. But even with like traditional strength training exercises, let's say you took your weight, let's say you take your normal workout weight, cut it in half. And then what you're gonna do is you're gonna focus on slowing down the reps and you're gonna challenge your range of motion. You're gonna try and get more of a stretch, more of a squeeze, slower repetitions. That alone often gets somebody's joint pain to feel a lot better. So just going lighter, trying to improve or increase range of motion and of course do it appropriately, right? You don't wanna go like so deep with the range of motion that you hurt yourself. But the idea is, okay, if you normally squat with let's say 315, I'm gonna bring it down to let's say 170 or 160. I'm gonna go real slow and I'm gonna try and go down as deep as I can, you know, within my particular limits, slow the reps down and really focus on the stretch and the bottom and the squeeze at the top. And that'll make a difference. Yeah, awesome. So yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. Yeah, Doug's gonna send over a mass performance, bro. And then like Sal said, after that, symmetry would be a good program to follow up. Yep. Got awesome. I really appreciate it, like why is this like the sort of gaps in the knowledge I was looking for. So yeah, I appreciate it. You got it, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Cool, have you got those? Thank you. Yeah, man. Goddamn monster. Yeah, guys like you and him, man. You guys probably, you beast. You must be so hard trying to lose muscle. Don't be a jealous little guy. Bro, hey, hey, he's trying to get smaller. You talking about getting smaller, you're getting smaller by the minute. Very different. Yeah, I do not have that problem. I do not have the, if I just stop, stop lifting weights and I look at a treadmill, my muscle falls. What's the heaviest you ever been? 240 something. I've been 240 and I'm shorter than you. And my frame cannot support 240. Yeah, but you don't have the proof of that. That's, you say you. Oh, I got the pictures. I will not post the pictures. Let me tell you. I want to see him. You ever seen a meatball with arms and legs? That's what I look like. Yeah, well, too, to your mass performance point, like I was curious to see if he's ever even trained in like different planes. Cause like that, that's one of those like inevitabilities as well. If you're just like always sagittal plane movement, you're always heavy lifting, like you're always doing that same pattern and routine. Like you are going to be uncomfortable. Like you put the mass on, that's a big feat in itself to get to the point where you can put that kind of size. But to live in it comfortably takes all that extra. Listen, if I, if my, if I'm squatting heavy consistently, consistently over time, what ends up happening after a while is I start to feel it in my hips. And if I keep pushing, I'll start to feel it in my knees. And then what I do is I back way off and I'll do split stance exercises and or traditional squats with much lighter weight and just challenge the range of motion and it's gets rid of the pain. It's like magic. You know, David hopefully listens to this. My advice when you go through performance is this. So, and I know we're joking about me comparing myself to him cause I'm in nowhere near this guy's level or whatever. But I will say that one of the best things I ever did was when I went on that probably year stint of just mobility, just trying to be a mobility guy. And I literally did not care about my foundational training like, yeah, if I got around to squatting and deadlifting, doing my movements, it was like every day was focused around improving my mobility. So when you look at performance, my advice to you is to look at the mobility days as if those were your foundational. Those are the important ones. Those are the ones you never miss. And then, hey, make sure you incorporate the lifts and stuff that we have written out for foundational days but because of your goals and where you're currently at and that you could totally afford to lose 20 pounds of muscle and still be jacked as fuck, don't stress the lifting part as much as you stress the mobility part. Make that the foundation of your training. Our next caller is James from California. What's up, James? How can we help you? What's going on, guys? How are you? Good, Avenue. Awesome. Hey, real quick, just wanted to say thank you. I mean, I know this is what everyone else says too, but I've been listening for about a year now and just the insight that you guys have given and I just started MAPS Aesthetic about six, seven weeks ago and seen a huge change just in my lifts and my workout routine. I feel like I was just always working out too hard before this and so just kind of opened my eyes to pacing and things like that. So thank you for that. Awesome. Thank you. But yeah, my question is, is so I'm 31, 64, 225, 230, about 18, 90% body fat right now but I'm also type one diabetic. I've worked out for the past, you know, consistently for 10 years now but nutrition has always been a problem for me and on top of that, I work remote. So I live in Nashville, but then I travel to California for about two weeks a month going back and forth, they sell solar. So when I'm at home, nutrition's easy. I can cook, I got my kitchen, I can prep, do everything that I need but when I'm out of town and I'm in hotels traveling, things like that, nutrition is always tough and so for someone that wants to have the right macros, make sure that I'm ordering and getting healthy food, what's the best way for me to be able to just be confident in my nutrition when I'm on the road? Like, is there, you know, good rush? Like, because I go to like the Chipotle's, the cafe rios, just try to find good chicken and rice sort of things, but like what are good tips? What are things that I should be following to maintain good nutrition? Right, here's my staples when I travel, if I wanna, you know, focus on eating healthy is I'll find, I'll eat some kind of a meat, some kind of a protein, so steak, I'll have them substitute whatever it comes with with vegetables, I'll tell them not to add any oil and put olive oil on the side. So you can find that at most sit-down restaurants, so like steak and then a side of vegetables and nothing else and then burger joints now will tend to lettuce wrap their burgers and so I'll do lettuce wrapped burger and that the macros and calories and everything seemed to be pretty good and that's about it. Now Chipotle, you already know the choices there. You mentioned cafe rio, you know the choices there, but that's about it. So if I'm somewhere and I see a burger joint and I'm like, okay, I wanna eat kind of healthy, I'll go in there and say, hey, can you do a lettuce wrap for this burger? And they'll say yes and that's it and then I'll just eat that. They have a Panda Express out there? Yeah, I mean, almost anywhere, I feel like has Panda somewhere or not. That's how I feel the same way too. That's actually one of my favorite staple, like it's 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night or I'm in a hurry. And they serve grilled chicken, man. Grilled chicken thighs and reasonably priced too. I double up on the chicken and white rice and when I was competing and traveling and stuff, that was like a staple fast food place that like if I had to get something to get my macros in. So and obviously there's people listening going like, oh my God, I can't believe you're recommending Panda Express, but the truth is when you're in a pinch like something like that, I mean, that's a way better choice than you going through something and getting Taco Bell or some bullshit like that. That's not going to hit your macros. The other thing that I would suggest too is that when I'm in a situation like this, like the thing that I don't want to do, you hear me on the podcast about don't eat like an asshole, like that's what really screws you up is that when you're traveling, you don't get quite your workouts in as much as you do when you're at home. And then on top of that, you overeat and you overeat bad choices. So like, yeah, so like what I would do is I would be less worried about hitting the perfect macros. Ideally you want to target it and I'd be more trying to be disciplined about not overeating. So that like, so like utilizing tools like intermittent fasting and having a smaller window of eating, like I use strategies like that when I'm traveling and I'm in a pinch and I know I'm not going to be able to get four good balanced, perfect meals. So hey, this is a perfect time for me to go, I'm going to go low calorie. I'm going to go low calorie for this week or two that I'm out of town. And no, that doesn't mean I'm still not trying to hit the protein. I'm not trying to do that. But what I just want to make sure I don't do is eat like an asshole over consume and then also not hit my macros and then also not be lifting. And so that's the real challenge. And so I would rather not hit my macros and be low calorie than to over consume calories when I also know that I'm traveling and not getting as many lifts in as I would when I'm back home. And I would bring a protein shake with me for breakfast or because breakfast is a little harder sometimes. Creatures of habit, dude. Or creatures, now creatures of habit. Now that we work with them, that's what I bring because it's an oatmeal packet and it's got the protein and everything. And it's super easy to add some hot water to it and you're done. Yeah, I love that for something like that. Is there like a pre-packaged protein that you guys would recommend? Cause I mean, I can bring my powders from home but you know, when space is limited in a suitcase. Just get a zip lock. Get a big zip lock bag and I'll put the scoop in it. So I'll put three, four servings in there and then I'll put the scoop in the bag. Oh, I do the air out. I do the, they make little, you know, let's say dime bags for like selling drugs. That's not enough though. They make half sandwich bags. Yeah, there you go. They're like half sandwich bags and I do individual scoops in that. So I'll do like, if I'm traveling, that way I don't have to measure and carry the scoop with me. I just put them in the individual. But I mean, creatures of habit got 30 to 32 grams of protein in that oatmeal. So to me like that's, and breakfast is always one of the hardest when you're traveling. So I would fly with four or five of those or however many days you're gone. I have one for every day you're gone. That's my breakfast. Hit lunch is Panda or one of the Rio or one of those places and you're on the right track. But honestly, and you probably know this like the thing that you do that's worst is over consuming, not hitting your macros and also not training. It's that trifecta that sets you back from all your good work you did at home. So at the bear, I would practice eating low calorie on as many days as I could on those days, just for that reason. Yeah, all I got was a pillow Valley beef sticks. So I totally agree with me. And actually I'm going through this right now because I'm gonna be traveling for a week or so and having that with creatures of habit and then also green juice is one that I'll pack in there as well. Because sometimes like even good vegetables are hard to find in a pinch and like so that's something too like late night mostly it's all these like fast food restaurants that are open which the options are pretty much terrible. So to be able to come with that, do like a lettuce wrap like Sal said but really it's like if I have a green juice there at least then I can have, you know my stomach tends to benefit from that as well. Okay, awesome. Thanks guys. You got it man, thanks for calling in. For sure, take care. Take it easy. They don't serve panda meat, right? Did you guys know that about Panda Express? I did. They actually do grilled chicken thighs. No, I didn't. They do grilled chicken thighs and it's like you do double meat. Like I don't know where I could get like $13, a $13 meal that's like 70 grams of protein and good carbohydrates. It was like a staple when I was competing and I was late night and that was like Panda Express was like. Panda Express and Chipotle are like bodybuilding fast food places. I know. Those are the two. Those are the two places. Chipotle is definitely a good place. Yeah, I like what you said about eating. That's what I try to do. I try to just eat less. So I do a lot of fasting. Cause that's what becomes detrimental right here. Cause okay, let's be honest. When you travel, rarely ever do I hear anybody who says they hit the gym more or even the same as what they do when they're home, right? When you're home you're most consistent with your lifting. So you probably miss workouts and then on top of that you're probably sedentary, you're flying, you're sitting in a hotel room so you're not moving very much and then on top of that you over consume and not hit your macros cause you do something, you know, carb heavy or at a gas station or and so and that's really what sets that work back. If you just simply said, listen, I'm going to, I'm going to either go low calorie or intermittent fast on some of these days. And even if you didn't hit your macros, you know, for a week or two. Okay, you what, you're not going to lose a pound or two pounds of muscle. No, you're fine. Yeah, you're going to be fine. And it even works out well because usually when I travel I'm doing stuff for work which means I want to be sharp anyway. Which means I'm going to eat less anyway to make me more sharp. So it all works out well. Next caller is Mike from Maryland. What's happening Mike? How can we help you? Hey guys, how are you doing? Good, good, good. I appreciate you taking my call today. I'm a big fan of you guys. And of course I appreciate you Sal always responding to my DMs on Twitter about whatever random questions I have. So always appreciate your content and your time. You know, I don't respond to anybody. I think you're the only person I respond to. I swear to God, I ignore what's happening. The luck of the draw. So let me get right to it. So in the past seven years I've lost about 150 pounds. Wow. I was hovering around 420 pounds for the longest time. I've been doing this through strength and conditioning, excuse me, strength training and a little bit of cardio. I started listening to you guys probably about two years ago and it's been a real life changer for me. So I appreciate that. Unfortunately now I've gained about 20 pounds back and I feel like my metabolism has definitely stalled. I do feel stronger but I can see some growth in my stomach. At my lowest I was sitting around 271 pounds. Right now I'm six foot three, around 291 pounds. I'm consistently eating between 2,900 and 3,100 calories a day hitting 40% protein. 23% coming from fat and the rest are carbs. So I was doing three days a week using like MAPS anabolic, lifting three days a week. And I feel like before that when I was lifting five, six days a week I was getting my best results feeling a lot stronger. So my question to you guys is, is going from a five day a week strength training program down to a three day week, hurting my metabolism? Should I go back to five days? Do I need the volume? Should I reverse? I know I'm scared to eat more calories and I know it's mental. You guys talk about it all the time but I'm here for whatever you guys can do. It's not hurting your metabolism but you're feeling the effects of the movement that you're not doing. Are you doing the three trigger sessions a day on the off days? Yeah, so I was doing the full body three days a week and then the three trigger sessions a day and then when I'm doing the trigger sessions I always try to make sure I'm getting the 10,000 subs a day. Oh yeah, you're doing good although you might just need to change your workout a little bit. Your calories aren't bad. I mean your calories aren't bad. They're not bad, they're low bro. I think they could be higher. Yeah, yeah, for his size they're low. I think so too. And I was trying to hit like 34, 35 hundred and I felt like I'd feel great for the first couple of days doing it and then I just wanna see, I'm not worried about the number on the scale I just wanna see the body composition come down. I wanna look good, feel good. Well let me ask you this Mike, how long were you at 400 pounds and then how long did it take you to lose 150 pounds? I was over 400 pounds for at least 15 years and then when I really got into it I was dieting at like 2600, 2700 calories which was a no-no when it got me the results I needed to and I feel like if I wanted to lose weight I'd have to be back down at that point again. So it took me, I was probably, start 2016 to 2019 I really got down from that 420 to 270 area and then since about 2020 or so been teetering back up a little bit when I started doing the three day week. So you lost 150 pounds over the course of two years, a year? From about three, three and a half, four years. Okay. And by the way, not bad either. That's not too bad. That's not bad, dude. Most people that do this do it, they go lower and do crazy amounts of cardio. That's what really fucks them up. So you do a pretty good job. And you gotta consider now, when I've worked with people who've lost a tremendous amount of weight it takes a long time to get their metabolism to respond past a certain point. Now you're not doing too bad. I've worked with people in your situation who in order to maintain their body weight they had to eat like 1700 calories, 1600 calories. So the body can become quite resistant. There's a genetic component there as well. Although I do feel like you could probably bump your calories by 200 or 300 and you would just end up getting stronger maybe building a little muscle and then taking your time with that type of a reverse diet. You can stagger it, right? So you could go 3,300 calories a day for three weeks then do a week where you go down to 3,100 or 3,000 and then go back up to maybe 3,400 calories and kind of stagger it like that. And then play that game, right? Watch yourself, see how you feel watch the body fat percentage, you know see how the results in the gym are and then determine whether or not you go higher or lower but you're not doing too bad. I mean, I think you could go higher with your calories but that's not too bad at all considering where you came from. You know where I would like, you know what I'd love to see you do? I'd love to put you on MAPS Power Lift. I'd like to put you on Power Lift. I'd like to do the calories just like Sal was saying and I just would, let's get strong at those lifts. Like that's kind of like, I would like to put you on a phase when that that's the conversation. Let's not worry too much about where the weight is so long as it stays manageable where you're at. I don't really care if it goes up or down five or so pounds, whatever. Let's just like, let's follow, let's follow what Sal's saying nutritionally. Let's do Power Lift and let's get strong as fuck over the next three months and then see what happens there. And hopefully if I know what I'm talking about you're gonna get your calories up because of what Sal's saying. And then that's new stimulus of training that way. Hopefully build some strength. Hopefully build the metabolism up. I think you'd see great results from that. I could see that. Now, is there a certain point of time where I should stay in a maintenance surplus and in a cut for what I'm trying to do? Cause obviously at the end of the day I want to get the composition down and lose a little bit more weight but I definitely want to build the strength up. So like I want to do everything, right? So is there, do you guys recommend a certain amount for someone like me who should be at a maintenance or surplus or cut? That's hard, you know, that's hard to say. I like to tell people to get to a point where they're comfortable with what they're eating or they feel like they're eating, like, oh man, I'm eating a lot. And then I, you know, cut them from there. But there's such a big genetic variance with something like this. And we can't discredit the fact that for, you know, a long time you're at a very, very high body weight. And, you know, there's some debate as to whether or not this is true or not. But I do feel like the body has a bit of a memory. And, you know, you've really only been doing this, this part of what you're doing for a short period of time in comparison to how long you were over 400 pounds. So I would, you know, give yourself some time. How old are you? I'm 34. Yeah, give yourself some time. What'll happen is over time, it'll get easier and easier and easier for you. But, you know, consider the fact that for, I think you said for 15 years, you were over, you know, 400 pounds and your lifestyle was much different. So it's almost like you got to probably live the other way as long or longer than you did the way before, before you really, it really starts to become easier. Yeah, I mean, if even more specific, if you were a client of mine, this is what it would look like, I would follow what Sal's advice is around the nutrition. I would follow Maps Power Lift. The goal would be this, the thing I'm just talking to you every day. Let's not worry about the scale so much. Let's get strong as shit and let's get your calories up. Our goal is at the end of three months, I've got you north of 3,500 calories a day and not putting on any body fat and just getting stronger. And then I'd train, then I'd switch you into a new Maps program. And when I switch you, I might give you like a month of a cut just to show you what we've already done. Like, hey, we've built your metabolism up a little bit. Let's now cut you back down to 2,900 calories. Let's watch you lean out a little bit for a month and then boom, let's go right back to reverse dieting and getting increasing calories. And I'd kind of mess with it just like that over the course of two to three months, giving you these little mini cuts just to show you the hard work that you're doing and the results from it and see your body composition kind of change. But then really the focus is, let's get that metabolism up as much as we can. But all in all, bro, just so you know too, you're doing a great job and be patient. Thank you. Because yeah, you're doing a great job. So I also would be saying that to you too, is like, hey, don't overthink this. You're on the right track. You ain't got a broken metabolism. You've done a hell of a job already. You didn't fuck it up the way you did it. Like, I'd be very happy with what you're doing. Are you, how do you feel at 3,000 calories a day, by the way? Do you feel really hungry or do you feel like you're okay? No, I feel okay. Right now, this week, I'm at like 2,900, I feel fine. And then like weeks when I eat 3,300, 3,400, I feel great. But I think anywhere between 2,900 to 2,800 up to 35, I feel fine. Yeah, you're good. Because sometimes we overthink it. We're like, oh, I'm supposed to be 4,000 calories a day. Or I'm supposed to like, if you feel okay, you feel okay. So it's not that big of a deal. I would still go in the direction that we're saying though, just to make this not a rebound situation, because the odds that somebody loses 150 pounds and then gains it back over the course of life is quite high. And so what you're doing is you're making that a smaller and smaller chance. Because you're getting your body, your metabolism faster, you're getting strong. You're developing a different relationship with food. And that does take time. So I'd still move in that direction, but I wouldn't worry so much about, oh, I should get up to 3,800 calories. If you feel good, then you feel good and you're okay. Okay. And we think that three days a week is fine for someone like me who just feel like I need the volume. I think it's fine, but if you want to go with more volume, you know. Power lift is me. Mass power lift is five days a week. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna send you a mass power lift. So we're gonna send you a mass power lift. I would love to see you do that. Follow the advice that Sal said about nutrition. And then like I said, the goal during that three month period of that program is just to get strong as hell and to slowly increase those calories. And then at the end of the program, I'd switch it to a new maps program. And then when we get into the new one, I would actually do like a little bit of a mini cut just to kind of show you like what you did, you know, just so you could see like, hey, this is what happens when we focus on strength for three months, we increase your calories a little bit. And then I pull you back down by cutting five to 700 calories and then watch what your body comp does. I feel like I need to come out there and just let you train me. Hold on. You know, actually, I tell you what, why don't I have Doug give you access to the private forum so you're in there too, so we keep an eye on you. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you guys so much. You got it, Mike. Thanks for calling in. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thank you. Hey, Doug, make sure you get my crab cakes, huh? Yeah, yeah. Don't worry. You got to share them now. That's not, you know, he's not doing too bad. He's doing great. You know, when I've worked with people who've lost over 100 pounds, oftentimes I get them and it's like, wow, we're in a, okay, we're in a really tough spot. But he's eating 3,000 calories a day. Yeah. He says he feels good on it. That's the other part that's important. I think he's doing all right. It's just a time thing. Yeah, him, you know, spreading it out for over three to four years, Lee. That's huge because most clients, like he said, I've had, it's been like a year or less. You know, we're just extreme dieting, extreme cardio. So yeah, I think he's doing quite well. No, he's doing a really good job. You know what we didn't ask him, I wish I would have asked actually, was just to get a little bit deeper into like how he approaches his lifts mentally. So sometimes when someone has been fixated on losing that much weight, even when they're running a quote unquote strength phase, it's kind of, you know, Like burning, burn, burn, burn, burn. Yeah, yeah, it's a little more circuit-esque. Calorie-driven. Yeah, exactly. It's more like sweat, burn, keep it moving type of deal. Versus like, you know, are you, and that's why I said power lift, right? Because I really would like that advice. I really would want his focus to be like, let's just, I mean, you're a big dude. Like let's see, let's see what we get this squad up to. Let's see what we get this deadlift up to. Let's see how, and I know as a by-product in a calorie surplus, if he's focused that way, he's gonna put some- He's gonna go to muscle. He's gonna build muscle. And that muscle then is going to speed that metabolism up for him. And then I could show him, hey, let's cut for a little bit. And then you can see like, oh wow, okay. That's what we just did. Give us some reward. Right, for sure. Our next caller is Teresa from Nebraska. Teresa, how can we help you? Hi, thank you guys so much for having me on the show. Again, I don't know if you recognized me, but I was on around April, May, June timeframe this summer. So I wanna say congrats to Sal on the new baby, Talia. Thank you so much. Oh, you're welcome. So I'm just gonna read my question here. So I think I have a fairly unique question for you guys. I've been strength training. In my email, it says 10 plus years, but actually I calculated it's like 18 years. I've built up a pretty significant amount of muscle. I recently got engaged on Thanksgiving and have eight months until my wedding. I feel my arms are actually too muscular and I would like more of a feminine look. My body fat percentage is around 12% currently, which I think means I have to lose some muscle and to lose some size on my arms. Do you think I shouldn't incorporate cardio? I do walk like three to four miles a day and strength train anywhere between like three and five days a week. I was doing anabolic. I did get good results, but now I wanna lose some size, I guess. Would you do this with diet alone? And then just for reference, I weigh about 123. I'm five three, fairly strong. I squat about 220, bench 135, and then I deadlift to 75. That's real strong. That's real strong. So I got some good and bad news for you. So the bad news is your approach is gonna be all wrong. The good news is I have the answer for you. Okay. Before you give the answer, I have one question. Okay, and this is your body, so you can decide what the hell you want. But just out of curiosity, what does your fiance think? Does his opinion even matter? Yes, it does. Hey, you're not even married yet. You guys are one. I bet he likes the Marves. Well, okay, so here's what, here's the thing, okay? Feminine and masculine. Yeah, muscle has plays a role, but body fat percentage plays a higher role. You're 12% body fat, you're really lean. If you gained 10 pounds of body fat, you would look more feminine. That's it. You don't need to lose any muscle. I can tell you right now, it's not because you have too much muscle on your body. It's because your body fat percentage is too low. 12% for a woman is almost low enough to prevent her from getting a period on a regular basis. And I don't know if that's already happened to you or not, but that's pretty close. If you got your body fat percentage up to like 17%, which is still lean, then you would, what you're looking for in terms of looking feminine would happen. It's because your body fat percentage is too low. It's not because you have too much muscle. And I've encountered this so many times with female clients who are fitness fanatics, and they would come to me like, oh, I'm too muscular, I'm too muscular. And I'd say, well, and I'd convince them like, well, let's just get you gained some body fat. And then sure enough, they're like, oh my God. By the way, looking lean or being very lean makes the arms look really muscular. And it's not the size. Like I can lose an inch of my arms and get shredded and they'll look bigger than they did when they were actually bigger just because I'm super lean. I also think you need to do a little check-in with yourself because I think we're our biggest critics when it comes to things like this and... I could tell you don't like my advice because you don't want to gain body fat, do you? Well, okay, so when we had talked about this before, that was the advice was like cutting back on all the intensity and everything. And then at that point, I hadn't cycled for a while. And so I have gained like almost over 2% or two pounds of body fat since then. So I guess I'm trying to be in the right direction. I don't know, maybe I just need to periodically check in. Yeah. So wait, when were you on the show last? Like June, I think, maybe May or June. So from June till December, you gained two pounds of body fat? That's bad? And you... We went through... Yeah, that's not bad. No, you're like in a 10 calorie surplus. No, no, no, you got to go get yourself in like a 300 calorie surplus. Get your body fat up to like, get above 15... Look, I'm not even... I'm not telling you to get chunky. I'm telling you to go from too lean to lean. Okay, so 17%... You smooth it out a bit, that's fine. 17% is like bikini lean for a female. Like you look good, you're lean, you got definition. 12% to maintain for a female is too lean. So if you're looking for the feminine look, it's the body fat percentage. I'm gonna tell you that right now. Now if your body fat percentage was in the 20s and then you're like my arms are too big, then we would talk a little bit differently. But I don't think this is a size issue. I think it's just that you're too ripped. You're too lean and that's not healthy. You'll find when you're by the way, if you go on a proper surplus, Teresa, your hormones are gonna balance, your energy is gonna improve, your hair is gonna strengthen, your nails are gonna strengthen, your skin's gonna strengthen, you're gonna feel like you look younger, you're gonna have more energy and your libido's gonna improve. And I can say this with full confidence because 12% is too lean to maintain for a female when it comes to health. It just is. So that's the answer right there. Now whether you take my advice or not, that's different, but I know it's tough especially if you're like really into this, but all you gotta do is I'd get you in it, whatever your calories are at now, I would add 500 calories to that. Just add 500 and just stick to it and just work on the gym. And don't weigh yourself. Don't weigh yourself. And you know what? I bet your fiance will probably give you compliments along the way because he probably wants to see you healthy. Have you been running our programs? I was doing an anabolic, yeah. I found a little bit with aesthetic. I just got symmetry as well. But the aesthetic, I think I was a little worried because it was just like too much volume for what you guys had said before. So trying not to be in the gym seven days a week. Before you lifted, before you started lifting weights, were you an athlete? Yeah, I did gymnastics and then I ran for a long time. I was a cheerleader for about seven years. Oh boy, we're painting pictures. Yeah. So you ever deal with, you don't have to answer this if you wanted, but have you ever had challenges with eating any dysfunctional eating patterns? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right, gain body fat. Yeah. That's it. Gain body fat and this can be hard for you, but track your calories and add 500. And it might be easier for you to do it like this because when I've worked with people like you, the strategy that worked well for me was to get them to add a 500 calorie meal to their normal diet or add a 500 calorie shake to their normal diet rather than just trying to eat more throughout the day. So they would just take an extra 500 calorie meal or 400 calorie meal and it could be a shake and just add that to what you're currently doing. And then don't weigh yourself and don't pay attention to when the clothes start to feel different, try and not pay attention to that, but definitely don't weigh yourself and get your body fat percentage to come up a little bit. But keep strength training. Oh yeah, of course. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And then watch what happens. Trust the process. It'll be tough to feel yourself gaining weight. It'll be tough to see yourself feeling like you're bigger, but just stay with it and pay attention to the health markers, energy, libido, hair, nails, skin, sleep, all those things, pay attention to those things. Doug, is that her? That's her, that's her, Andrew? You look really good, dude. Yeah. You look really good. Yeah, you look really good. I think a lot of this stuff is your own psychological shit. That's what I think. Of course. I think that's the real answer more than the programming and nutrition and stuff like that. I think you look good. Did your cycle come back since the last time we met? It's gotten more regular, yep. Okay, is it regular, regular or just better? Not quite, it's better. Yeah, let's try getting your body fat up to at least 15%, but I would aim for 17%. Do you guys have any plans to have kids anytime soon or at all? Yeah, he's still in school, so that's like a two and a half year goal. Yeah, that's the first thing the doctor's gonna say to you. I mean, even Katrina, who I don't think, Katrina doesn't look crazy lean, but she has a lean body fat percentage, and that was when we were trying to get pregnant. They told her to get body fat. Yeah, she had to lay off and increase calories. Body fat is an important, and I know when we listen to fitness podcasts and it's always about losing body fat, but body fat is essential. You have to have a certain amount of body fat, and more body fat is important for women than it is for men. A guy at 12% body fat's at a healthy body fat percentage. A woman at 12% body fat, it's okay to get there, but then you gotta come out of it, and staying around there is just, a woman, it's typically unhealthy to go below 15, typically for long periods of time. So, and look, 15 to 17 is still really lean. You still look, you're still gonna look like an athlete. You're still gonna look lean and all that stuff. Yeah, she looks a lot more shredded right there, Andrew. Is that further back? Okay, yeah, that's for like, you look leaner there. The first one you show me, I thought that looked, she looked really like a good- I've been lighting and all that stuff too. But I mean, you gotta, I would look- I can see the separation in her quads so that she's super lean. Yeah, I would look at the health markers. But you're right, just, yeah, you just need to eat. Go have a fucking cheeseburger, huh? Just go have a couple cheeseburgers, dude. Yeah, yeah. And the fact that you're a strong, you know, I'm gonna pump you up a little bit, all right, Teresa, I'm gonna make you feel better. The fact that you're as strong as you are at 12% body fat, if you go in a calorie surplus and trust what I'm saying and allow yourself to get your body fat percentage up, you're gonna be one of the strongest chicks in your gym. If you're not already, you will for sure be, you're gonna be strong as fuck. So enjoy this process, do that. Yeah, go in a little bulk and have fun with it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she already is, bro. Yeah. Close, close. Yeah. So I'm at like 120, well, to even 150 grams of protein right now. So how would you add that? Carbs and fats. Carbs and fats. So I say- Go have a fucking burger, go have a milkshake. So eating more protein is okay, or should I just not? No, you're fine with more protein. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, but how's your appetite? Do you find it, would you find it hard to eat more? It really depends on the day, I think. I mean, how obsessed are you with eating clean too? Because that's why, I mean, I'm halfway joking with the comments around the cheeseburger and the milkshake, but maybe you do need that. Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, if you're really obsessive with the way you eat and you're like, oh, okay, I wanna, I mean, that's not even how I would do this with you. I was saying earlier, I'd eat the way you always eat and then I'd be like, hey, have a cheeseburger at night before you go to bed, have a milk I would like, or you like watching movies, have some popcorn. Well, yeah, I mean, I would have let you, I would want you to have some flexibility in your diet and enjoyment. Yeah, especially if you find, because protein associating that eating another 500 calories from protein is gonna be hard. Because you're already high protein diet. So carbs, carbs, fats, a little bit of protein is fine, but like a smoothie, you know, like a smoothie with fruit and some peanut butter, you know, three, four, 500 calories. You can add a glass of whole milk to each meal. That's another way you can add like three, 400 calories, you know, just think of it that way. And the burger and stuff like that would be totally fine too. Okay, awesome. All right. Don't skip the french fries though, huh? Theresa, please, hey, listen, keep in contact with us. I wanna know how you do. Are you in our forum? You in our forum? I am, yep. Okay, good. Give us some, let us know what happens. I wanna keep following up with you. Okay, will do, thank you guys. Thank you. All right, Angie, I appreciate the clips because that gives a little bit better perspective of them. She's ripped. Yeah, dude, 12, I mean, as soon as I saw in her question, she was 12%, she was like, do I need to lose, how do I lose muscle? I'm like, no, no, no, you need to gain body fat. Body fat is feminine. You know, you get a woman who's like, look, you know this, Adam, you've been to competitions. You see the women on stage and you look at them and they look, the face looks weathered, they look, it's got a masculine look because they're so lean. Then they go off season. Then they go off season, they gain like 15, 20 pounds of body fat and all of a sudden they look amazing. They got the muscle, they're still relatively lean. They've got the curve and the shape and the health, you got the health. I mean, she gained two pounds since we talked to her last in June or July. That's nothing. She's afraid of eating. For sure. That's why, I mean, the advice to me is that's why cheeseburger, milkshake. I can tell she has some obsession around her food. So even when we told her increase, I mean, you do the math, I was like, oh, you had 10 extra calories? Like, come on, dude. I mean, what's the positive part of being in the position she's in, she can get away with kind of overdoing it, eating wise at first. Like she can have the milkshake and she's not gonna put 4% body fat on from a couple milkshakes. So it's like enjoy the extra calories a little bit, but I have a feeling that she obsesses over the food so much that she has a hard time with that. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump South. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.