 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Late Night Talk with me, Mohamed Ali. Now when examining the rituals practiced by the majority of the global Shi'a communities, many misconceptions rise in terms of their prayer, in terms of expressing grief, in terms of visiting holy shrines, celebrating the births of Ahl al-Bayt and commemorating their martyrdoms, and other religious practices that are sometimes viewed by some as being too extreme. Now why is the month of Muharram the month of dispute between two parties? The month of arguments when it comes to rituals, Sha'a'ir, the month of debates when it comes to these rituals. Tonight we have Sheikh Abbas Panjou joining us once again to discuss the idea of rituals and Sha'a'ir of Imam Hussain, peace and blessings be upon him, and also to clarify some of the misconceptions. Sha'a'ir, peace be upon you. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon you. Now when the month of Muharram arrives, we see disputes happen, we see arguments and discussions revolving on the rituals that are performed during the month of Muharram. Now why is that? In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. When you look at the revolution of Sayyid al-Shuhada, peace be upon you, you find that every aspect of the revolution of Imam Hussain was exceptional. And similarly, you find that the mannerism in which the mourning rituals are commemorated for Imam Hussain are also exceptional. You find that there is a great diversity in regards to the mannerisms in which people express their grief for Imam Hussain. Expressing grief, one way of expressing this grief, for example, could begin with something as minor as serving tea or serving water to the pilgrims of Imam Hussain. As we have right here, the Chai of Abu Ali, blessed tea, insha'Allah tea that has Shafa'ah. And you find that this is an act of reviving the affairs of Ahlul Bayt. These people come out, they want to ensure that the pilgrims are not thirsty, in the same way that the companions of Imam Hussain were killed thirsty. They are those who acknowledge that people are coming out from different parts of the world, different parts of the country to pay tribute to the slain Imam, to the martyred Imam. And therefore, they come out with food and with tea and drinks to ensure that these pilgrims are as comfortable as possible as they pay tribute to Sayda Shuhada. This is a form of service towards Ahlul Bayt, a form of reviving the affairs of Ahlul Bayt. In any case, you find that there is a great diversity and the parameters are very, very widely left open to us and it comes to the different mannerisms through which grief can be expressed in the way of Sayda Shuhada where you have mannerisms of grief expressed through tears where people cry for Imam Hussain, a normal human reaction that when a person recounts the manner in which Sayda Shuhada was tortured, the manner in which he was executed, the manner in which his body was mutilated, the manner in which his head was severed from his body, the manner in which his women were taken as prisoners and slaves and beaten, physical violence against women. All these tragedies, when these are narrated and recounted, the first natural human reaction is to cry and to shed tears. Emotion is a great aspect of a human being's makeup. In fact, the emotion plays a big part of our intellect as per the Hadith of Ahlul Bayt. Many times you may come across this argument, it's intellect versus emotion. But in essence, if we are to pay attention to the Hadith of Ahlul Bayt, emotion is an intrinsic part of the intellect. The manner in which this emotion is used will now determine whether the intellect is at a higher level or at a lower level. But principally speaking, the emotion is a part of this intellect, shapes the intellect per se. So you find that there are many forms of commemorating the morning ceremonies of Imam Hussain from weeping to beating the chest, latham to beating the faces to a more intense expression of grief and that is letting out blood either from the head or from the back. And you find that to answer your question, you find that yes, the month of Shahrum Muharram is a month which attracts a lot of attention towards the morning ceremonies of Imam Hussain. There are a lot of objections that are put forward. There are a lot of questions that are asked. And over here, it's important to state that we can divide the objections and the questions that are raised in regards to the morning ceremonies of Imam Hussain, the likes of Tattbiyah, for example, the shedding of blood from the head, or the zanjir that are used, the chains with blades and extracting blood from the back. There are a lot of misconceptions in regards to this act of expressing grief for Imam Hussain. And people ask the intensity which may be allowed by the sharia when it comes to expressing grief for Imam Hussain. So there are two types of questions, as we say. There are two categories of people who ask questions and raise objections. Number one is that you have a general population that genuinely do not understand what is happening. And this is also a normal human reaction that as intellectual people, as beings, creations of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala that have been endowed with the faculty of the intellect, it is normal reaction to ask questions when we see actions in front of us that we do not necessarily understand. And this is matloob within Islam. This is actually encouraged within Islam. And questions like these, whether it is in regards to Tauheed, whether it is in regards to Adala, whether it is in regards to Nabua, or Imamah, or Yomul Qiyamah, or any aspect of the religion. This is something that is necessary. This is something that is encouraged by Islam. Ameer al-Mu'mineen salawatullahi wa salamuhu alayyus to say, the key towards gaining knowledge is to question. And sometimes you cannot blame the people. If people do not understand the relationship between the people and Imam al-Hussain, they don't understand what Imam al-Hussain stood for. If people were to understand what Imam al-Hussain stood for and they were to understand the endless bounds of love that is required from the people when it comes to their affiliation with Imam al-Hussain, perhaps they would not object. In fact, they would see it as a very normal reaction. Therefore, when we have genuine, legit questions, is this an act that is rational? Number one, number two, is this warranted within the parameters of the shari'ah? These are questions that are welcomed. And it is necessary that these questions are asked such that we are able to miss, such that we are able to give answers to misconceptions, give answers towards shubahat. So this is something that is welcome and necessary. Now, one of the questions that is always raised when it comes to the rituals, is that what is your proof when it comes to explaining or when it comes to proving that such an act, as you mentioned Taqbir or other acts, are proven by the Ahlul Bayd to be authentic? Absolutely. And we have a narration that we will discuss right now. Just to complete my point, if you didn't mind, this is the first category of people who ask questions because they genuinely want to know. And then you have another category of people who have a different agenda behind asking questions. The reason for asking questions is not really to get to the bottom of the situation, to learn, but they have an agenda in that they want to cause doubts within certain practices because it goes against their own political agenda or ideological agenda. There are people when they want to cause fitna, they do not cause fitna by outwardly saying that a certain practice is wrong or this or that, but rather they cause doubts by asking about the validity. They have no other avenue of deterring the masses from conducting within this practice, so therefore the only tactic underneath or the only strategy that they have under their belt is to cause doubts in regards to the validity. In either case, when we answer both these category of questions or both these category of people who ask these questions, in regards to the validity of tatbir, in particular, we have hadith within credible hadith within the literature of Ahlulbayt that clearly indicate for us that the extent of grief that we are allowed to display in regards to the tragedy of Imam al-Hussein even if it encompasses the shedding of blood, this is something that is permissible and acceptable and recommended within Islam. One such example is the tradition of Sayyid al-Zaynab al-Kubra, which is mentioned in the text, we can read out the narration and we can have the discussion on this after the break. You notice that in Bihar al-Anwar, for example, Alama al-Majlisi, Rahmatullah alaih, he puts forward this narration that is this tradition or this occurrence, this incident, narrated by Muslim al-Jassas. Now Muslim al-Jassas, we don't know much about him, some random individual who was employed as a construction worker, we could say, in the palace of Ibn Ziyad. So he says on the 11th of Muhammad ibn Jassas or Muhammad al-Muslim al-Jassas, he says that on the 11th of Muharram, I was employed by Ibn Marjana to cement or to plaster the doors of the Darun Imara. And as I was working on this, cementing the door of plastering, the building, whatever it was, he says that I heard suddenly the people of Kufa going into a frenzy, shouting and weeping. He says that I asked one of the servants who was there, what's going on? Why are all the people coming out with so much chaos, weeping, shouting, wailing, mass congregation? What happened? What's happening? So the Khadim replies back to him by saying, As-sa'a ataw bi-ra'se khariji kharaja alayyazid. He says that we have brought just now the severed heads of a khariji, of an outcast rebellion, has been brought into the city. A person who rebelled against Yazid. I said, who is this rebellion? Over here we are saying the word khariji rebellion, a rebellion person who rebels and goes out of the parameters of faith aslan. Husayn ibn Ali says, I just left the servant until he left and I beat my face out of intense grief to the extent that I thought I was going to lose my vision. This is the severed head of the grandson of the Prophet. Do you remember some time back there were these images that were being broadcast on social media and on YouTube when ISIS were beheading people? If you can remember the reaction of the people when they saw these images of severed heads going on, looking at it on social media, you're about to throw up your overcome by anger, your overcome by grief, your overcome by tears. Even today in the media, what do they do? When they have images like this, they blur the image. Because the murshain, the viewer is perhaps, he will be scarred for life if he sees this and children. What about Zaynab and the children of Imam al-Husayn? This is a sight in front of them, in any case. So I looked at the head of Imam al-Husayn on a spear and he says, I looked at this face that was like a shining moon, the face that most represented the blessed face of Rasulullah and he had a dark beard, dark black beard. Because the head was planted on a spear, the head was wavering to the right and to the left as it was on top of the spear. We have to understand that this is the first time that Zaynab is seeing the head, the blessed head of a brother on a spear because as soon as the heads were severed on the very 10th day of Ashura, according to some of the historians, it was either Khuli or it was Shimar who rushed back with the head of Imam al-Husayn to Kufa because they wanted to declare, they were so impatient to declare their victory and gain their rewards from Obaidullah ibn Ziyad. This is the point. He says so as a reaction when she showed the blessed head of Imam al-Husayn on the top of a spear shaking with the wind from the right to the left as a reaction, what did she do? She hit her forehead on the railing of the carriage until we saw blood streaming down from underneath the garment that covers the face. So the intensity with which she hit her head against the carriage, Muslim Jassas says from the distance at which he was he was able to see the blood flow down her cloth that covers the face. What does this contradict the narration of the day of Ashura? When Zaynab saw Imam al-Husayn getting the head it wasn't like she looked away or something it was right in front of her. So the reaction isn't something new to her. This scene isn't something new it's just the difference between the severed body on the night of Ashura she put her hand under the Imam al-Husayn and she lifted it. Now she knew he was beheaded and then on the 11th when they took the camp narrations tell us that she was walking and everybody feared her from the way she walked and from her confidence that she came out with. So this individual who with that self confidence would just hit her head randomly after seeing what I mean she saw on Kufa I mean the tragedies isn't as much as Both these tragedies are great without doubt the reaction and the place of the reaction and the timing of the reaction we have to keep in mind that Imam al-Sajjad says to Sayyid al-Zaynab Alhamdulillah Alima gher moallama wa fahima gher mofahama She has a level of Isma in fallibility scholars today call it Ismat al-Sukrah the minor in fallibility and the difference between a minor and a major in fallibility is a discussion of its own but she has a level of divinity attached towards her so we understand when she performs this act there is a reasoning behind this act there is a divine wisdom behind this act as to why it was performed in Kufa around the Kufans amongst the Kufans she tried the place of Ibn Ziyad as opposed to in Karbala on the 10th day of Ashura so number one this is trying to uncover the wisdom of Sayyid al-Zaynab I'm trying to uncover the wisdom of Sayyid al-Zaynab this is one aspect towards it on the other hand we have that the confidence of Sayyid al-Zaynab and the subbar of Sayyid al-Zaynab the fact that she hits her head against the carriage does not contradict the fact that she was confident or she had subbar there is no contradiction the fact that Sayyid al-Zaynab hits her head as an expression of grief as an expression of grief to show that to symbolize that had it been my head instead of the head of my brother this is number one number two I was going to leave this for later on in the show but insha'Allah no because we should go into a short break I'll come back so I'm sorry to cut you off we do stay tuned for we have prepared for you or else our dear friend who goes on every night from the first of Muharram up until today and he will continue insha'Allah every night to provide us with live footage from Karbala and sheikh will enjoy that tea it's about Abdullah al-Hussain a.s. very beautiful this tea tastes amazing insha'Allah so I'll leave you with Muhammad Ali and what Karbala asked to offer during Muharram so do stay tuned of this meeting today to you I retail Salam alaikum peace and blessings of Allah be upon you all welcome to the Holy Land of Karbala today our story my debut is our report will be about something special a very special day among the 10 and among the first 10 days of Muharram among the Ashura of Muharram which is the day of the wedding of Qasim peace and blessings of Allah be upon him Qasim the son of Qasim the son of Imam al-Hassan peace and blessings of Allah be upon them so my debut was it is the day where it is traditionally known that she is around the world celebrates or commemorates in a matter of fact because it's the days of grief and thus the grief on the young man that went in his first days of his first days of marriage to battle the injustice and to battle the tyrants and thus he went as a martyr so my debut as you see right now right behind me the lovers of the Ahlul Bayt peace and blessings of Allah be upon them in white wearing their a ceremonial procession in order to mark the wedding of Qasim peace and blessings of Allah be upon him a companion of Imam Hussain a young a young man who sacrificed himself that we ask Allah to grant us all the privilege to be on the path of Qasim peace and blessings of Allah be upon him a butterfly within your light your absence tears up my wings leaving them strewn your presence a soothing light to my wings I fold these wings into a darkened cocoon do you know my name I'm the moth to your flame you left to soothe my thirst but didn't return the world looks on as this princess accepts a tragedy the universe drowned in silence asks what will the king say from one world to another world the worlds of poetry Abbas answers through the pen of Mohammed Najaf welcome back ladies and gentlemen we do thank our brother Mohammed Ali from the streets of Karbala telling us a different story every night of what goes on in this very beautiful city during the month of Muharram and the processions you saw and sheikhna the processions you just saw welcome back sheikhna on the second part of tonight the processions you saw as well as the viewers they were Al Qasim's processions now the 8th as we commemorated yesterday in the show yesterday it's beautiful how they dress someone up a young lad as Al Qasim and they take him around Karbala and every procession there's approximately 50-60 processions going around and everyone has their own Qasim Alhamdulillah wa Shukr and you know Habibi Ahmad these processions are so vital in regards to understanding preserving history because you can read about how Qasim was a young boy in his early teens dressed in battle gear and you could try and create an image in your mind but when this part of history is reenacted you are able to envision this in your mind much clearly and in fact it brings tears to your eyes when you see a child so young dressed in gear of battle going out so these acts are all part of reviving the tragedy of Imam al-Hussein because it brings the image clearer in mind there is more tafa'ol there is more ability to react and to understand this tragedy and one of the most beautiful ways to revive the rituals of Al-Baitah is through this reenactment of certain individuals that were present on Day of Ashra and tonight as I like to talk about but sheikhna before the break you mentioned an aeration regarding the severed head of Imam al-Hussein reaching kufa hitting her head off of the saddle of the camel and so on and so over now sheikhna can you elaborate on that more because this is the only narration one who practice this ritual they are going to bring this narration and you know more than me I said a little bit in seminary school but you probably know more than me in al-marajad one narration isn't that great or is it great in regards to the authenticity of this narration first of all let me just make a correction al-Baitah reached kufa on the 12th of Muharram on the 11th they actually left Karbala on noon after Ibn Ziyada recites salat al-mayt and buries all the people who died from his camp while the bodies of al-Baitah are left on the plains of Karbala so the 11th noon they left Karbala they reached the outskirts of kufa by night time and they camp at masjid al-Hannan we have a documentary on masjid al-Hannan where the explanation is there they reach there, they spend the night in masjid al-Hannan this is one of three important of masjid al-Hannan and the next day 12th of Muharram they are brought into kufa so this incident is happening on the 12th so we said that in this narration or in this recording this part of history that Sayyid Zaynab hit her head with a camel which resulted in bleeding as a result of this the fuqaha come forward and they are able to deduce a hukum shar'i when it comes to the extent to which a person can go to express his or her grief for Imam al-Hussein is it permissible for me to shed blood from my head or from my back out of grief for Imam al-Hussein the fakih will come forward and tell you based on this narration the fact that Sayyid Zaynab did this yes you are this is a proof and she was in the presence of Imam Sajjad Imam Sajjad didn't rebuke her Imam Sajjad didn't stop her in essence what he did is he affirmed her action by saying now a lot of people or there are a lot of questions in regards to the authenticity of this hadith Alama al-Majlisi in Biharu Lanwar narrates this the only book in which this narration is mentioned or this incident is recorded no you have other scholars the likes of the same incident is narrated for example by Muhadith al-Bahrani one of our greatest scholars in his encyclopedia Awalim al-ulum it is also mentioned by Sayyid Abdullah Shabbar Sayyid Abdullah Shabbar Rahmatullah alay in his book Jala'u l-Uyun it is also mentioned by Shaykh Tureihi in his book al-Muntakhab and by Shaykh Habibullah al-Kashani in his text in addition to Alama al-Majlisi you have five grand scholars of Tashayyu who have all mentioned the occurrence of this incident within their respective texts hence we are able to understand if great scholars like these have mentioned incidences like these then their authenticity in itself is established had this incident not been authentic notice why Sayyid al-Zaynab did this or what it represents is a different part and now we want to establish the occurrence of this incident when somebody comes across this tradition in Bihar al-Anwar somebody else mentions this narration is it a credible narration is it authentic or not is it something we can depend on in order to extract to deduce a hukum shar'i or not the fact that we have five grand ulama the faces of Tashayyu who have mentioned the occurrence of this incident gives us it may anan that this incident was authentic had it not been authentic one grand scholar may have mentioned it but five grand scholars at the same time now it is also understood that this narration is mursal meaning that the chain of narrators is discontinuous there is no continuity in terms of the people narrating this hence the hadith is categorized as being weak we cannot doubt about himself's knowledge Imam Sajjad not refuting her action when she hit her head why don't we see the other imams doing the same thing we don't see any of the infallibles performing this ritual that the people are doing right now I will answer that for you in just a moment let me just continue with this tradition the fact that it is mursal the chain of narrators is discontinuous hence it is categorized as da'if this narration is da'if people come forward those who object to the authenticity of this hadith they come forward and they say it's mursal which means it's da'if however hence they discount this narration altogether they say that this incident didn't occur because the hadith is mursal what we say is that when it comes to authenticating validating hadith or historical incidences the chain of narrators does not play excuse me the chain of narrators does not play a central role in establishing a historical incident as opposed to when it comes to validating akham fika hiya when you are trying to establish a hukum sharai the chain of narrators plays an important role but when it comes to establishing historical incidences the case is not the same a lot of the miracles that are recorded by Rasulullah within our books of hadith are also mursal the chain of narrators is discontinuous but no two people doubt within the occurrence of these miracles this is number one number two you have a number of our ulama who have actually said that this incident of muslim jassas is mu'attabar authentic you have sheikh shari'a al-isfahani and ayatullah fadil darbandi both of them because alama al majlisi when he records or narrates this incident he says that I show in a book that was mu'attabar there are a number of qara'in qara'in indicators that shedding of blood has happened a number of times such that even if the chain of narrators is discontinuous the fact that the content of the hadith can be supported by other hadith collectively we gain it naan that the shedding of blood out of grief had occurred and therefore these occurrences collectively can then be used to deduce a hukum shari'i stating that it is mu'attab to shed blood out of grief for imam al-Hussein now to answer your question we have number one now you said mu'attab mu'attab is recommended so how do we deduce this from zaynab a.s.m. how is that mu'attab in the sense that because she is infallible and she has performed this act in the presence of zaynab al-abideen the fact that she is infallible her actions are a hujja do you have anything saying that it is mu'attab how so permissible when we say that if say the zaynab performed an act and she is infallible through ismatis sogra meaning what all her actions revolve around three things wajib mu'attab and mu'attab in fact we have that even those people who have reached the highest level of mu'attab they leave aside those acts that are mu'attab and they live their entire lives around acts that are wajib and mu'attab we have this established for maraja then what about say the zaynab al-kubra a.s.m. and what sense you can say that number two we have hadith that speak about idhar al-jaza expressing extreme grief as being mu'attab in regards to the martyrdom of say the shuhada as a text you will find that the imams in a number of hadith say from imam al-bakir and sadiq a.s.m. number of hadith you will find in kamil isyarat by ibn qawlaway hadith that are mu'attabar that expressing extreme anguish is mustahab so this is a major premise minor premise yani hitting the head or letting blood from the head with a sword or with chains from the back is it an act of anguish or no it's an act of anguish because it's an act of anguish that denotes expressing extreme grief it is a mannerism through which the major premise is manifested hence the major premise is used as a point or a platform to establish the istahab yani mustahab of letting blood as a form of expressing anguish and extreme grief so this is how the ulama deal with this going back to the why did the imams not perform this so now in regards to this there are two answers number one yes we have incidences of imma shedding blood number one and number two even if these incidences are foreign wide or they are not you can say commonly performed in terms of mass gatherings the reason for this is that for the entire part of history the ahlulbayt lived at a time of taqiyyah ya ahi when did any one of the ahlulbayt ever have the freedom to weep and commemorate for imam al-Husayn without any restrictions you have within history one time imam al-sadiq aleyh salam gathered his companions inside the house they were weeping for imam al-Husayn one of the armies or the stekhbar the cid or the what do you call them the fbis of the time the secret intelligence service what is intelligence intelligence services came into the house they raided the house and they asked imam al-sadiq aleyh salam why are you people crying why is everybody gathered here why are you crying imam al-sadiq had to say to them we are crying because of an infant that has died in our house imam al-sadiq aleyh salam this is the environment in which ahlulbayt lived even to cry they secretly had to cry inside look at during the time of mutawakil Shrine of Aba Abdullah aleyhi salam 17 times was raised down to the ground they never had chance to commemorate the morning of imam al-Husayn in a public gathering but what they did is they left behind hadith the implementation of this hadith the parameters of these hadith in terms of interpretation are so far and so wide they are so vast such that the ahlulbayt have left for us a diverse number of ways to weep for imam al-Husayn with the passing of time they never restricted anything they kept the doors open by using general terminology like idharul jaza'a so in every day and age whatever action comes under the category of idharul jaza'a takes up the hukum of isti'habab in short weeping or commemorating imam al-Husayn is not from that category of ibadat that is known as ibadat toki fiyah ibadat toki fiyah are those acts of worship or those acts within the religion whose parameters are set and defined they cannot change until the day of judgment salatul maghrib is free until the day of judgment salatul is for until the day of judgment in the rami for the jamarat for example you have to throw the 7 stones you cannot make 7 into 10 yani hatman the parameters are set until the day of judgment however there are other acts of ibadat that are not toki fiyah they are not listed in black and white in terms that their boundaries are not defined the scope is opened up to accommodate for diversity over time and age so long as this diversity is within the wider parameters of halal and haram and fit this general ka'ida in harul jaza for example sorry so this is one in regards to your answer in particular you know we have a tradition in kitab darul salam that a person once came to imam al-sajjad to summarize this and he comes to imam al-sajjad and he narrates to imam al-sajjad how he saw the head of imam al-hussein in darul salam the tradition mentions kitab darul salam the tradition mentions that imam al-sajjad stood up when he heard the mannerisms of the way in which the severed head was dealt with out of grief he stood up and he hit his head against the wall splitting open the front of his forehead fell down to the ground and fainted imam al-sajjad somebody can say this hadith is also mursal in the sense that the chain of narrators is discontinuous but then what we are saying again is that if you take a collection of these narrations even though each and every one of them is mursal on its own collectively together they give you itme'nan in that it reaches a level of tawatur maani the content of the hadith the meaning of the hadith the end result of each and every one of these hadith if isolated which are mursal when looked upon collectively gives you itme'nan in regards to the permissibility and the istihbab occurrence of these actions now collectivity in what sense collectively yani instead of analyzing the hadith in isolation one hadith as is you take all the hadith collectively and you find that because there are numerous events that's all point towards the same action then that action in itself is permissible so for example say the zaynab hitting her head on the front of the carriage they said this hadith is daif so we can't depend on it okay keep it on one side then you come across another hadith of imam sajjad hitting his forehead even this one is daif keep it on one side like this and then you have the issue of imam rida aleyhi salam he wept until his eyelids became clotted a blood clot on your eyelid can you imagine the extent of grief and weeping so when you take all these hadith together and then in addition to this the anbiya ya aakhi the anbiya shed their blood for imam al hushayn even the prophets we will get to that just now but to complete the kaida from a usul al hadith perspective when you take a number of hadith that are categorized to be morsel because what is meant by hadith that is daif yani the hadith on its own with its chain of narrators it does not qualify to be a hujja yani a binding proof but when you take a collection of narrations where each and every one of these individual hadith are also morsel and you collect them together collectively you get it naan from the content from the matan from the meanings that the occurrence of this incident cannot be fabricated and in essence is authentic yani there is more than one way to establish the authenticity of a tradition it's not only by the chain of narrators now sheikh is already cut short because we have a couple of minutes before the break now sheikh to finalize or to have a conclusion for this chain of tradition if you will the al-harul jeza as you mentioned yes that in itself has authenticity full authenticity if you will absolutely very short and the one for is morsel so that means some people take it some people refute it some people there is not what we are trying to say is that even though the hadith is morsel there is no manner in which it can be refuted because it is morsel if you want to refute the hadith there is a different grounds which you can refute it on not on the basis that it's morsel now sheikh due to the limit of time that we have we did understand why people grief extensively over alayhi salam but what does this action symbolize I mean people on tenth of muharram walk around with swords and they just hit themselves what does it symbolize? number one Habibi symbolizes a person's willingness and the readiness to sacrifice their life for Imam al-Hussein is it the time though in what sense is it the time to sacrifice yourself for Imam al-Hussein expressing your loyalty and your bay'at to Imam al-Hussein is not restricted to time or space the Talbiya the responding to this call of Imam al-Hussein saying La Bake with your blood is not restricted to time or space they are in essence they are replying back they are responding back to the call of Imam al-Hussein when he cried out on the day of ashura these people come forward and they say Yaba Abdullah we were not there on the day of ashura we were not there to be with you we were not there to sacrifice our lives for you but here we are to show you a humble gesture that we are not scared of pain or death in your way this is a humble token whereby we are expressing to you Yaba Abdullah despite us being sinners here we are ready to give our lives for you it symbolizes loyalty it symbolizes readiness to sacrifice loyalty towards the Imam Zaman of your time loyalty towards Sayyid al-Shuhada now Shayna we loyalty we understand that but the fact that people do it in a manner where one of the lines that a lot of people hear when they hear rituals that we just mentioned right now why is the name Haidar instead of Hussain it's the name of Hussain instead of Haidar the terminology that is used over here Haidar in the sense that there is number of reasons behind it number one Haidar for the lovers of Ahlulbayt is that name that just brings from within you fervor and love and it brings this sort of a vibe where you are in a zone you know Haidar is that name of Amir al-Mu'minin that he cried out on the day of Haidar that you know Haidar meaning the roaring lion and this in terms of a war call is a call that brings up that zeal and that confidence within you and it prepares you it sikes you up if you can say number one, number two there is a call out that first Madlumin Islam was Haidar and had we been there we would have been there for Amir al-Mu'minin had Amir al-Mu'minin's right not been usurped Imam al-Hussain would not have been killed in this way it's the same hands that burnt the door of Sayyid al-Fatima al-Zahra years later they have the door and the audacity to burn down the tents of Sayyid al-Zaynab al-Kubra alaihi salam so there is that affiliation exactly for Amir al-Mu'minin meaning to show Amir al-Mu'minin is the ultimate after Rasulullah show our loyalty to Amir al-Mu'minin alaihi salam now sheikhna before we go into the break a minute and a bit before the break sheikhna a lot of people have this questioning going around on the tents of Muharram a lot of people go around and they do the rituals to bear whether it's latom latom meaning beating the chest of bear meaning hitting the head hitting the back and so on and so forth through the discussion going on sheikhna that the people this is not generalizing some people don't pray some people are they take something and then go do the prayer this is the streets that this ritual was performed on so some of the stuff that's performed or the people that performed this aren't really a hundred percent what's the stand on this see we have number one if you give a counter argument there are a lot of people who go to the mosque for Salat al-Jama'a but they are is that accepted though so we are trying to understand the nature of this argument the argument over here is that the people who stand up to perform these morning rituals for Imam al-Hussein they themselves they don't pray or they are not good individuals or they violate the sharia a million times on every other day now they come to mourn for Imam al-Hussein and show that they are dedicated to Imam al-Hussein is this right or not this argument is actually applicable on all other aspects of ibadat you have people who come for Salat al-Jama'a but they do ghiba you have people who come for Salat al-Jama'a after having stolen money from other people deceiving other people in business does this mean that we condemn these people for Salat al-Jama'a does this mean that we should stop the Salat al-Jama'a there are people who steal money or fraud government fraud, tax fraud donations to build big mosques all over the world does this mean that we tear down these mosques what is understood is that this is the right way to think this is the right way to approach this situation if a person does one good thing do not condemn him for doing this one good deed because of 10 other bad traits that he has encourage him to refine his bad traits through this one good that he is doing perhaps one day it is this one good act that will stop him and that will refine him from performing all those other bad acts the validity of an action or an action its validity is not dependent upon the type of people who do this act like the same way we say Islam and Muslims are different Islam is not, the religion is not bad just because the action of the Muslims is bad similarly, the act in itself is a pure act what we need to do is, we need to educate the people out of love we are standing up to commemorate the morning ceremonies of Aba Abdullah we use this love for Imam al-Hushayn to improve our Salat to improve our Shum the same people who are reciting Salat Allah says within the Quran that Salat that is why people have doubts when you stand up for Salat and you recite Salat think what this Salat means let us use the good deeds that we do and capitalize on them so that we can refine and abstain from those things that are bad within our character we will continue this but after the short break the respective viewers do stay tuned for after the break I believe there is another report by our brother Muhammad Ali so let's go to Muhammad Ali and see what he has prepared for us so do stay tuned welcome back ladies and gentlemen hope you enjoyed the break and the images you or the footage you just were presented with are the army of al-Muhammad or the campaign of al-Muhammad entering Karbala and you see the other family members of al-Husayn peace and blessings be upon them we are live from the holy city of Karbala with our very special guest we are back from the break we talked about many aspects revolving around the most extreme form of grief which is shedding blood for al-Husayn a.s. we say one of the most intense ways not extreme ways for what we have to greater extent so we want to use the extent better than okay but we also go back to the idea that now this form of intensity if you will is resulting to some as a bad image it's reflecting a bad image on Islam because really what I've read and what I've seen also media people are saying we really don't need this right now when ISIS is beheading so much blood so much chaos is going on and that we see the Shias hitting themselves then the muharram shedding blood and stuff do we really need that right now it's a valid concern and it's a respectable concern as well but before I answer this let me just highlight in regards to the philosophy behind the tathbiyah number one an expression of intense grief and number two symbolizing loyalty to Ahlulbayt in that you are willing to sacrifice yourself for Ahlulbayt and in particular your willingness to sacrifice yourself for Imam al-Hussein having said this now the question that you asked it's a very valid question however what we say is that this concern can be generalized and applied to a number of other things within Islam like hijab for example there is still this misconception and there are these objections and concerns on social media that the hijab or the burqa is a form of oppression on the women and in fact we even have countries within Europe that are now taking steps to ban ban for example countries have banned it because they look at it as a form of oppression perfect but sheikhna hijab is a form of mandatory to Muslim women and some countries, some communities some cultures abuse that which resulted in many people looking at it as a form of oppression but this is something different wouldn't you agree or is it the same if you are looking at it as a hukum in terms of wajib, yes there are two different but what we do is when we are looking at the format of your argument or the question of the argument that is there because this act is giving a bad image to Islam, should we abandon it what we say just like hijab is a part of Islam expressing anguish for Imam al-Hussein is a part of Islam can we, should we regardless of whether the act is mubah, wajib or mustahab regardless of which category it is in, is it permissible or does it make sense or is it valid for us to abandon our practices just because they are not correctly perceived or just because they are wrongly perceived by the wider public Muslim or non-Muslim this is the core of the thinking if you catch my train of thought, so the idea is that is it permissible for us to abandon our religious practices because the outside world doesn't truly understand them we say no, just like the way we don't compromise or abandon the hijab or don't abandon fasting for example long hours, they come forward and they say even in Europe this time we got complaints from schools and things like that that the children become dehydrated and this is a form of cruelty on children mothers should, does this mean that we should now change the rules that nobody is allowed to fast until they become the age of 18 or until they become the age of 21? Allah, what we say is that when there are misconceptions in regards to understanding aspects of our faith we don't abandon them because people don't understand rather what we do we step up our tabligh we go out above and beyond to make the people understand why we're doing this from one extent it's a token of love just like the way you have from within the Christian school of thought where they re-enact the crucifixion of Jesus Christ they are still to be peaceful people in fact they are applauded for their act where they have self-legulation as well because the people sit back and they say look at their love for Jesus Christ this extreme love that they have for their saint or for their prophet and this is the same thing that applies for us it isn't as widespread as tatbir and also you mentioned earlier when ISIS behead they blur out the picture because it's graphic for some people and they may scar them for life and what we have right now people doing tatbir uploading to facebook to youtube and so on and so forth isn't that also graphic and wouldn't scar people for life for that? this is why we need to have number one this begins this is taken as a lesson if I am scarred by looking at the images of tatbir on social media this is supposed to induce within our minds the brutality of what happened to Imam al-Hussein and his companions and Abu al-Fadir is it okay to broadcast it live to upload it to youtube to post pictures on facebook? a majority of these times these images that are over there perhaps the manner in which they are put up on whatsapp or on social media or on facebook what we are trying to say is in regards to the publicity of the act as an act number one number one what needs to be done is that we need to go out and educate the people what we are doing and why we are doing this it could be side by side it could be side by side if we can be theoretical and we can be practical no one can listen to you while you have blood on yourself this is what I am saying we can be theoretical we can be practical on a practical level people are uploading images across social media whether you try to stop them or you don't try to stop them whether it's right or it's wrong it's a different argument altogether the reality on the ground is people are uploading images on social media now if this is fueling misconceptions the only other thing that needs to be done is that we need to go out and explain to the people what this symbolizes in my opinion Ya Akhi this tatbir we said represents what a person's willingness to sacrifice himself for Imam al-Hussain Imam al-Hussain stood up for what humanity Ya Ani these are a group of people who are coming out to say that we are willing to shed our blood and give our lives in order to protect and save god humanity in one essence this is what they are doing so we need to educate the people the people need to understand that there is a existence of a group of Muslims the Shi'a Ithna Ashari who are immensely in love with their Imam this is their readiness to protect the entire human kind because Imam al-Hussain's message was for humanity and therefore commemorating the means of griefing is also for humanity and we don't expect for everybody to understand these principles we don't expect for everybody to engage in these principles but what we need to do at a very minimum is that we respect different peoples different forms of expressing grief and expressing anguish this is all that is needed you don't need to participate in them but you don't need to attack them and the big thing is that there needs to be a differentiation between these people who stand up to commemorate the morning ceremonies of Imam al-Hussain and ISIS wherever people confuse these two together this is why it is so important for us to have a hand in media Ya'aqi what ISIS represents and what the morning ceremonies of Imam al-Hussain represents are two total things in fact they contradict each other they do contradict each other and hence our presence in media is so important where we show to the people where we come out to the wider world and say Ya'aqi we are different Ya'a Jama'a are the world she as we are different from them some people think that we are all one we are not one the reality is within Islam we have different sects we need to differentiate ourselves from them ideologically the reason for these people shedding blood is totally different from those people shedding blood over there they go and they kill other people and where have you seen that she is going to kill other people Ya'aqi basita very humble show of loyalty towards the Imam of their time towards the fact that these people were willing to give their life in order to safeguard the goodness of humanity in its entirety because the message of Imam al-Hussain was humanity how many they are showing that they are willing to give up their lives Imam al-Hussain which was also humanity so therefore images like these supposed to be pride in one way that we have millions of people like these were willing to give their lives for the goodness of humanity in its entirety but again our emphasis over here is what people need to be educated on what it represents number one we need to stop attacking these individuals at a very minimum we come to an understanding there are different formats of expressing grief there are different intensities each one respects each other I may not have to believe in this act it may not appeal to me but you know what I respect the fact that this is your way of grieving and Ya'aqi we move on harmony within our society through respecting diversity this is what is needed not that she has go out and call each other kafir for either engaging in the act or not engaging in the act and gracing each other and gracing Marjaia till when Ya'aqi till when we live in such a sorry state Georgia line finish the people they follow Marja Taqli these are things that are warranted in history each one nobody should not be any I love how you use Arabic expressions within your speech very lovely but sheikhna what's happening right now and going back to what you mentioned earlier Islam is all about freedom of speech correctly now the people who attack this ritual they have the freedom of attacking it don't they? freedom to criticize nobody is saying no yes you can criticize what do you draw our line for attacking criticize in terms of ilmi academic criticism of the act is welcome but now when I go out is there an academic criticism for this act I want to discuss whether a hadith that is more so can be a hojja so we go back to the other again and if you want to come forward with academic discussions does this give Islam a bad image or not or how are the ways we go around this yes these are circles these are discussions that are welcome that are needed but for me to go out and call these people kafirs and to call them or to blame them for giving Islam a bad image and for making them outcast within the society having their centers shut down and things like these no that's a red line this Islam is we have to embrace diversity we cannot wage war against each other just because our mannerisms of weeping for Imam al-Hussein are different from each other we want to come to a middle ground where each person is respected for the manner in which they go the people whether they do it or those people who do it they are under the taklid of their maraj of their respective maraj those people who don't want to do it they are not forced each one and we have harmony this is what we are calling towards and that's very beautifully said because a lot of people don't really understand where or the stance of Shia in this issue because a lot of people have this misconception that there's even it's a form of reality if you will because even within the Shia there's some people who are attacking it but as you just mentioned right now Habibi you're free to do whatever you want as long as I mean for us if you believe see this is where the confusion begins if you believe that the Ahl al-Bayt said expressing grief for our Hussain you do it now if you don't believe are you going against Ahl al-Bayt see very shortly if you will particularly with the issue of tatbiyah from its asal in terms of permissibility for shedding blood you will not find any one of the fuqaha imamiya who say that shedding blood on itself as an act is haram because we have a fundamental principle in usul which is known as in very short every act is considered permissible until and unless you have proof that shows otherwise we don't have any form of text hold on in terms of hadith we don't have any text per say which prohibits us from drawing blood from our body which is an act where the difference comes in and the iqtilaaf in the fatawa between the maraja is on the hukmothanawi not on the hukmul awali hukmul awali the fundamental act of shedding blood that one there is no discussion the discussion over here is on the secondary issue excuse me in that does it give islam a negative image or not some of the opinion yes it gives it a negative image the ruling is no and there are some who say that bill acts no it doesn't now in this situation of iqtilaaf what do we do when there is an iqtilaaf between the maraja this is what we say respect each other's diversity those who are under the taklid of those who maraja who accept this and promote the practice ahlan wa marhaban those people who are not they follow their own maraja taklid and we respect each other this is what we are saying respect the diversity when it comes to commemorating the grief of imam al-hussein imam al-hussein is for everybody for the mutabbiri or for the young mutabbiri just like the way he is there for the christians and for the budi and for the jew is for everybody very beautifully said sheikhna because not a lot of people can really answer the way you just answer that you joined us this year to have this discussion now sheikhna tonight come to commemorate another personality that also shed his blood on a day of aashura and something very tragic happen i don't want to talk about Allah i will leave you to talk about it alil akbar do we have a bit of time we have approximately 10 minutes i believe 10 minutes we have 5 to 10 minutes the sacrifice of alil akbar alaihi salam every sacrifice every tragedy was painful alil akbar is painful from a different perspective from a different angle and you find that even the very spot in which alil akbar was martyred is preserved till today in karbala they call it the makam alil akbar which is the narrations mention that some of the historians the opinion that alil akbar was the first of the shohada from bani hashim to go out he was the first one from the bani hashim youth of bani hashim to be martyred and there is calam in regards to that in any case the narrations mention that when alil akbar sought permission from his father say the shohada to go out into the battlefield imam al hussein looked at him and began to weep he hugged him and he wept uncontrollably and as he gave alil akbar permission to go into the battlefield he helped him mount the horse and he looked at his son for one last time and he raised his hands towards the heavens and he said oh Allah you be witness that oh Allah you bear witness that this young man who is going into war against them is the person who the most in terms of his resemblance the holy prophet the most in terms of his features in terms of his manner of talking and in terms of his behavior his akbar when imam al hussein says he resembled the holy prophet in his features when he stands in front of you to say if the holy prophet is standing in front of you the narrations have it that when people were longing to perform the visitation of the holy prophet the visitation of the holy prophet when the tabi'een those group of companions who lived right after Rasulullah didn't meet Rasulullah when the Sahabis they would tell to the tabi'een that if you want to picture how Rasulullah looked in his lifetime go and see alil akbar to that extent so when alil akbar went into the battlefield the people who killed him these are the same people that's what imam al hussein says so and then imam al hussein raises his hand in dua and he recites this verse of the Quran to show that alil akbar is from those group of people aladina that Allah has purified and selected the narration mentions that alil akbar is a seasoned warrior wow trained by imam al hussein trained by his uncle abul fadil a swordsman and a warrior trained by abul fadil baad the narration mentions he came into the battlefield and the way he introduced himself he recites this poetry where he says he says wow he says he says he says we by the house of Allah are more awla are more deserving of the position of the nabiyani khilafa and imam wow this illegitimate children will never rule over us in the name of religion do you not see how I defend my father the narration mentions jihad was so intense his cavalry, his swordsmanship as a seasoned warrior that he killed he sent to jahannam 120 of the kuffar in one of his hamalat in one of his attacks 120 they were not able to attack him until there was this point where al-akbar is on his horse calling the people towards a duel towards a challenge they were reluctant to come in front of him until today I came across a narration where the historian mentions that as al-yunil al-akbar was calling them towards war challenging them, nobody was ready there was a person that came forward umare bin sa'ad called him and if I'm not mistaken his name was basheer not important what his name is and he called this person basheer and he says to him I command you to go out and fight this ilad Ali the person said to him look at the fear this shows you the fear within the ranks of the enemy the person says to umare bin sa'ad you have brought an army to kill these people you are going to get the land of ray for killing them so you want the land of ray but you want me to go into the lion's den if you are so concerned and the fact that you are getting the land of ray you go and fight al-yunil al-akbar the person umare bin sa'ad didn't have an answer because these were people who were cowards so he says to that person well I will give you the willaya the rulership of morsel if you go out and kill this lad these people were hungry for the dunya he went out thinking that he could kill al-yunil al-akbar and get leadership over the land of morsel but the person who comes in front of the sword of al-yunil al-akbar the natija is the same as the one who came in front of the sword of haider al-karra al-yunil al-akbar sent him to jahannam wa ba'sal masir nobody is willing to fight him al-yunil al-akbar goes back to the trench he removed and he says to his father oh my father the weight of this armor is increased my thirst I am dying of thirst due to the heaviness of this iron armor you know when you come out in the afternoon 40-45 degrees here you're dressed in a jobbine and in front of you're dripping in sweat fushlon bi al-yunil al-akbar then what about al-yunil al-akbar who's worn an armor of metal an armor of iron and then you have this helmet that protects you during war and the narration mentions that Imam al-Hussein wept and he hugged him and he said to al-yunil al-akbar be patient for indeed it is very soon that your grandfather will quench your thirst from the cup of kawthar al-yunil al-akbar gets ready to go into the battlefield for the second time but he goes into the tent to bid his mother farewell and at this moment the narration mentioned that Sayyid al-Laylah the mother of al-yunil al-akbar she threw herself on al-yunil al-akbar and she began to weep and she wouldn't let him go into the battlefield al-yunil al-akbar said to his mother o mother do you not wish to be counted from amongst those that sacrificed their children for the children of Fatima as soon as Laylah heard the name Fatima she let al-yunil al-akbar go the narration mentioned that al-yunil al-akbar counted his horse he bids his father farewell for the last time and he goes into the battlefield and in this second hamla he sent 60 people to jahannam wa bi'asal masir and there are other numbers because there are a number of attacks in either case the historians mentioned that Omar ibn Sa'ad called out that we cannot capture we cannot overcome this boy on his own he came from every direction the narrations mentioned that there was one la'een by the name of Munkid ibn Marra Munkid when they attacked al-yunil al-akbar from every direction Munkid came and attacked al-yunil al-akbar from behind by striking him with the sword that split open the skull of al-yunil al-akbar the narration mentions that al-yunil al-akbar to ensure he doesn't fall off his horse he hugged the neck of the horse and he put his head on the head of the horse so he doesn't fall off the horse because if he falls off the horse they are going to trample over him so as he hugged the horse the horse began to run but because the blood that was flowing from the head of al-yunil al-akbar it started to flow onto the eyes and onto the face of the horse the horse cannot see where it is running so it ran into the direction of the enemies the narration mentions that as soon as he entered into the ranks of the enemies they attacked him with swords they attacked him with axes they attacked him with spears there was not a single weapon they used except that they struck al-yunil al-akbar with the narration says they cut him into pieces he falls down onto the ground and he cries out al-yunil al-akbar Imam al-Husayn goes running towards al-yunil al-akbar and the manner in which he sees al-yunil al-akbar the narration mentions he comes down onto the plains of Karbala and he puts his cheek on the cheek of al-yunil al-akbar and he says there is no life after you there is no life after you and the painful thing you find over here that al-yunil al-akbar smiles at imam al-Husayn imam al-Husayn says to him why do you smile my son al-yunil al-akbar says to him father do you remember how you said to me very shortly my grandfather will quench my thirst here I see my grandfather al-yunil al-Abi Talib coming with the cup from Kotha to quench my thirst the grief of a father al-yunil al-Abi Talib what is very famously narrated from amongst the khutaba that al-yunil al-akbar had his hands on his chest when he fell down and imam al-Husayn would try to move his hands al-yunil al-akbar would not move his father would say why al-yunil al-akbar do you not move your hand from your chest al-yunil al-akbar was trying to hide a broken remaining of a broken arrow or a broken spear that was implanted in his chest and like the way he said al-san ul-haal al-yunil al-akbar it's as if he said to his father if you see this broken spear in my chest it will hurt you more than it will hurt me in either case abab al-Husayn moves the hand of al-yunil al-akbar and he places one hand on the chest of al-yunil al-akbar and one chest on this broken arrow and he cries out now we have to mention the way that your have recited the calamity of al-akbar right there and that's not even a quarter of the calamity of al-akbar because even a quarter of what happened to Aya Al-Aqbar because if we were to recite the Maqtara or the Calamity of Aya Al-Aqbar then it would take an hour just for Aya Al-Aqbar, Aya Al-Salam. So hopefully inshallah we can learn from Aya Al-Aqbar the Salam that stood out from everyone else on Karbala and do his bravery and his loyalty to his father and the Aya Al-Baita Aya Al-Salam. Sheikhna would like to thank you for joining us tonight. Hopefully we can continue our discussion tomorrow on a different topic inshallah. Thank you for joining us tonight. Hopefully we can learn from the Aya Al-Baita Aya Al-Salam and learn from these nights how to propagate the message of Aya Al-Salam in the most proper and in the most beautiful way possible. Thank you very much. As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.