 This is Think Tech Hawai'i. The community matters here. Good afternoon. Welcome to Think Tech Hawai'i, Hawai'i is my mainland. I'm today's guest host, Sai Weis, on behalf of Sierra Club Oahu Group. And we have our guest today, Senator Russell Ruderman, with representing Puna on the Big Island. And today we're going to be talking about industrial hemp, future economic opportunities and challenges within our state, and some of the exciting possibilities that's going to be coming around this year and for our future here in Hawai'i in cultivating and growing industrial hemp. Welcome to the show, Senator. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Sai. So, when we were talking, you told me you just came back from vacation. I really appreciate, you know, just kind of stepping into the studio and talking about this. You said on your vacation you had time to see actually a hemp farm in Colorado. Do you mind telling us about what you saw? Sure. We were visiting mostly, visiting a national park there, Rocky Mountain National Park, but very close by was the operation of someone I had met a couple months earlier in Hilo at this cannabis expo, where different people from around the country were gathered to help Hawai'i learn about hemp in particular. So I had gotten that connection and I visited, got to visit a farm and spa. They do a lot of CBD oil stuff. I was most excited to see a hemp farm, which what I got to visit was a 25-acre parcel that was one of several that they have, and where they were growing hemp variety of cannabis. What was unusual to me was to learn that they weren't growing it for fiber or seed. They were growing it for the CBD content, which as you may know, the CBD oil is one of the category of compounds. It's very exciting in terms of its medicinal properties. So they were growing medicinal hemp, a variety that's short, not tall, like the big fiber stocks, but they're end product CBD oil. The person who was hosting me pointed to that field that there's $1 million worth of CBD oil. It was very exciting. There was no big 20-foot fence, no barbed wire around it. Right next door, there was a plot of corn and here's a plot of hemp and it all just seemed so normal. It was just remarkable to see it actually happening in the world. Of course, there are a few years ahead of us. I'm very excited to have that begin here in Hawai'i. Right on. It's not a new crop. It's something we've been cultivating as humans for thousands of years. It's been a part of the mass and sales that brought Christopher Columbus to the United States and some of the ropes they used to help build the pyramids as well as in today's world, we're using hemp products for parts and automobiles. I know BMW and Mercedes have been using hemp in some of their supply chain. As well as being a great health food product, a lot of people are looking for other ways to eat more healthy and take in the omega-3 fatty acids that we need and hemp is one of those awesome products that provide some of those nutrients. It wasn't an easy beginning for hemp to come reestablish itself back in the United States and even in Hawai'i, it's been a long road with the prohibition around cannabis, specifically cannabis tiva, but primarily hemp actually got the short end of the stick and where it was compiled with something like that where it does not get you high, it does not affect you anyway psychoactively. It's a plant that provides health benefits to you. So unfortunately during the 30s with the Marijuana Tax Act we saw a prohibition against hemp, which was unfortunate, but now there's been kind of a resurgence with the 2014 Farm Bill that former President Obama signed which enabled states to actually start growing hemp for academic and research purposes. And so that brings us here today here in Hawai'i now where we're doing such things with UH Manila looking at different cultivars and seeing what is successful in growing in Hawai'i. So being a legislator at the Capitol I'm sure you've seen some of the things that have been revolved and some of the bills that have been passed and most recently this past session which has been quite adventurous for you and numerous senators I believe is Senate Bill 773 which you got to introduce as well with Senator Shimabukuro as well as Senator Gabbard. And so you want to tell us a little bit about Senate Bill 773 which is now law that the governor signed in July? Yeah, this was a follow-up. The previous year we had passed that bill that was seemingly as much as we could get that year which was to begin a pilot program and that was going to basically be about research and seed development, trying to develop seed varieties that would be suitable for use in Hawai'i that we could count on for growing well at our latitude as well as having a small enough content of THC that it was not a legal concern. This past bill that you just mentioned, Senate Bill 773. This opens it up starting in January 1st to follow up with that pilot project to allow actual hemp farming so the farm agriculture can contract with various and I believe in a theoretically unlimited number of farmers who want to follow the program and really begin growing hemp commercially for whatever of the various reasons. You mentioned nutrition for like the seeds and the oil and there's a lot of exciting fiber opportunities and manufacturing opportunities and then more recently I think people have seen the value of medicinal hemp as being a very exciting thing. You mentioned how its history of being illegal if I could just as an aside. Most people I think believe that hemp is accidentally illegal because it was related to marijuana. If you go back to the forces that passed the Marijuana Tax Act in 1937, it really was all about hemp. Marijuana is sort of a red herring that's held out there is why we mean to make this plant illegal but the money to make it illegal came from the timber and oil industries. So it really was a push to suppress hemp production so the timber and oil wouldn't have that competition. It really come full circle in a way of finally addressing the real reason it's illegal which has really not been talked about and it shows the tremendous economic opportunity. And some of those economic opportunities are going to happen here in our state. So with the establishment of the hemp pilot program that is now in full effect they're looking for so to actually help manage the program here in Hawaii and hire somebody as well as taking applications in the beginning of 2018. By the way you can actually look it up on the web for our viewers if you're interested in about the hemp pilot program there is a URL available on the web that will direct you to what is going on and the timeline of the pilot project. It's exciting things. It's something that I myself being a millennial and looking for ways that we can be kind of more entrepreneurial and start new things here in Hawaii I think that we need to establish these kind of new ways of bringing back jobs here to the state and creating more local good paying jobs that will help keep families here because I've noticed one thing with our generation is there tend to be a brain drain away from Hawaii and it would be really nice to see some of my friends come home and be able to get our hands dirty and actually start something new. I'd love to see that too and we face that challenge throughout our agriculture sector because there are very few jobs that pay well enough to justify the cost of living in Hawaii here and this is a tremendous opportunity and I think our farmers deserve every opportunity and advantage that we can give them but this is a way to get into some relatively high tech agriculture and it could result in some fairly high income products that could justify our time, cost of land, cost of labor here in Hawaii. As a natural food business owner on the big island owning two natural food store chains, operations do you see an increase in your supply chain with hemp products and stuff like that? Yes, the interest in it has been growing exponentially the last five years or so for a while it was kind of a gray area, we don't know how legal it is but no one seems to challenge it and particularly we've seen it in cosmetic products, hemp oil, we've seen it in protein products, hemp protein hemp seeds as a protein supplement has been very popular and more recently we're starting to see CBD oils and creams for more medicinal applications I have to say that there's tremendous interest in it and there's a tremendous demand for it and I also, from my point of view as being a grocer, I also see a great demand for Hawaii products in particular some people say how can we possibly compete agriculturally here in Hawaii when any place else can grow a cheaper but there's a tremendous demand, if we were to have for example organic Hawaii grown top quality whether it's the seeds or the CBD oil or whatever it is, that commands a much higher price than the general commodity market so I believe there will be a demand for high quality Hawaiian grown and Hawaiian produced products Awesome, kind of like Kona coffee right, for example like we can't really compete on a world scale like some of these other countries do and with mass production of coffee but we do have a niche product that sells very well around the world and Hawaii has its marketing power to captivate a certain market that will appreciate Hawaiian hemp Kona coffee is a good example because it's image and this is Hawaii's brand, it's image is top quality the best the best in the world and I think Hawaii's products will have the same kind of shape Right on, right on, and so that being said the tremendous opportunities that are available for our state and how some of these entrepreneurs can get involved, where do you think some of these development sites I'm hearing there's 33,000 acres of A and B land on Maui and I know you and various people on the big line are looking at a Puna Feasibility Study Ag Park, could you see industrial hemp being grown there what is your opinion on where some of these development sites may occur Well I don't think that's settled yet, I think it could be almost anywhere and it's going to end up being where people desire it, where people want it going based on the individual farmers who choose to get into this, at least the first phase you mentioned in Ag Park I'm working on an agricultural park in Lower Puna where we have an opportunity to have abundant relatively free land more water than we could possibly use an available workforce and also access to ocean water so it's a combination of resources that I hope to develop hemp certainly could play a role in such a park it depends whether that interest is there in the people on the ground right now on the big island I know there's some folks in South Kona and Ka'u that seem to be first out of the gate wanting to grow some hemp and there's a couple of several farmers on Maui and those are the ones I'm aware of that are kind of getting ready to go as the first year when they can begin the commercial production great so I guess for someone who let's say has no background in agriculture or background in farming or whatnot what would you tell to those people that are interested in hemp how to start? well you know I'm not a farmer, farmers are my heroes but I've pretty much failed every time I've tried I would suggest they get involved with someone very knowledgeable and partner with someone who is really knowledgeable there's so many pitfalls along the way in farming in general and then you add the additional legal hurdles that you have to go through at this time for hemp I would suggest partying with someone who's knowledgeable and already a little bit educated on this and they certainly can use the help and be better than trying to figure it out for yourself I would think so you know with hemp cannot just like you said hemp cannot just I mean will certainly not just be used for just food products but also for materials as well have you seen any hemp creed at all popping up on the bigot or anyone I know being from the bigot on myself there's a very forward thinking population on Puna in terms of how do I make my lifestyle more sustainable and so hemp creed is one way to build a house that is more sustainable have you seen any of that in your district at all? I have not yeah you know I mean in terms of hemp creed from local products of course we're not at that point yet I've heard of one or two houses being built of hemp creed statewide I don't think any around the bigot and yet to my knowledge so I think that's something that we haven't quite reached that point of I know there are people looking at the various uses for hemp there's tremendous versatility in what you can make it into plastics and oils and things like that but in terms of what direction Hawaii's market will go I think that's yet to be decided okay yeah you know it's such a new and interesting thing that I think you know once the industry kind of gains its legs you know Hawaii will start to morph in a way to say like oh we excel at this product or this product sells you know better than you know let's say than making t-shirts right I don't know you know there will be some way where Hawaii will make its footprint in the market if I were to guess like we were talking about before it's hard for Hawaii to compete on commodity things we're never gonna grow competitive rice for example but the specialized things is where we can really excel so if I were to guess it would be the nutritional products the oils and the medicinal products whereas when you think about fiber products like the hemp crete and fabrics I would think that's probably going to be better off in places like Kansas and Kentucky where they can grow several hundred acres right over a really big factory right there sweet so we would like to talk about this more we'll be right back thanks for tuning in to Think Tech Hawaii is my mainland and we'll see you guys in a minute I'm going to the game and it's gonna be great early arriving for a little tailgate I usually drink but won't be drinking today because I'm the designated driver and that's okay it's nice to be the guy that keeps his friends in line keeps him from drinking too much so we can have a great time a little responsibility can go a long way because it's all about having fun on game day I'm the guy you want to be I'm the guy saving money I'm the guy with the H2O and I'm the guy that says let's go welcome back to Think Tech Hawaii Hawaii is my mainland I'm your guest host Si Weiss and today as our guest we have Senator Russell Ruderman and we're talking about industrial hemp so getting back and diving back into the field so to say no pun intended is that Hawaii like Kentucky or like Colorado states that have already established hemp in some of their agricultural products do you think that hemp could ever be kind of a substitute for something here on the island let's say we stop importing you know cotton for t-shirts right do you think we could make because you know Hawaii has like a big kind of garment industry where we do export some of our you know our loha shirts or you know some of the things that we market around t-shirts for you know tourist items and what not do you think we could maybe pull away from cotton and do something solely like hemp here in Hawaii do you think that's economically feasible at all or I think it may be you know if I were to bet on which aspects are going to work in the early game in Hawaii that's not one on that I would bet on because I think that involves a fairly large-scale manufacturing to make it cost effective that doesn't mean it couldn't work if someone had passion to make that happen then yes and then when you had the final product you could say you know material made in Hawaii because we don't have anything like that here we don't have any cotton grown here or anything like that so that would be a unique thing if someone had the passion to do that I think they could in terms of things that we could immediately replace some of the things we use here I believe that hemp could have some applications for biofuels and therefore theoretically replace some gasoline petroleum uses I also think that the most immediate use that I can think of in a low-tech sense is for poultry feed you know I mean it would be it's pretty low-tech thing to grow hemp for its seeds and right now when in the poultry industry whether it's eggs or chicken poultry for me the highest cost I would assume by far is importing feed whereas in this case you could take some of the marginal portions of your farm grow hemp seed and have a virtually free feedstock that I mean when you look at bird seed commercially it's actually mostly hemp seeds they boil it so that it's white not viable but hemp seed is a perfect bird seed and so you could change from being your most expensive cost to a virtually free feed source and then we would have chicken and eggs here in Hawaii at a truly locally grown and I think a much more affordable price point than we have right now with importing all of the feed right on and you know I've actually seen some of that you know some of those locally grown chickens just down the street from my parents house and put it on yeah exactly they're right down there I think on between I think 7th and 8th or 6th and 7th on HPP but I want to get back to you know hemp as a substitute for something like cotton because one thing that hemp provides is it actually provides 250% more fiber per hectare compared to cotton so that's a big that's a big improvement in production for the business owner and for the environment meaning that the footprint of that crop is much less than if you were to grow like let's say cotton so do you think that we could maybe not just on Hawaii but on a global scale do you think that would help reduce our carbon footprint? On a global scale absolutely I think it can and it has so many advantages because it grows more easily than cotton as you said it produces more fiber per acre but also requires much less inputs in terms of fertilizers and in terms of herbicides hemp is essentially a weed it grows on very marginal areas and it doesn't need a lot of care and feeding along the way and we've seen that that's been proven worldwide so if we could replace some of our cotton acreage with hemp acreage you would be a huge ecological benefit and worldwide as I mentioned I'm not convinced that Hawaii will be the place to grow the fibers but worldwide has tremendous benefit for doing replacing cotton replacing oil and biofuels and I think some of the now that if we you know places like the UK that have been successful and growing industrial hemp and they've been doing all sorts of projects with building materials and what not and other countries now you know actually excuse me but the US you know our own country is actually one of the few countries that does not allow hemp cultivation so you know if we as a country start to allow hemp cultivation we'll join the rest of the world and growing this magnificent crop and I think that once that happens then we can bring everyone on board there's the marketability around it and I think it really ultimately comes down to marketing because we have to educate people we have to tell people that you know what you're buying is not only healthier for you but it's also healthier for the people and I think that getting that voice out there and letting people know I think that will change some of the buying habits of consumers so I think marketing you're right aside about how important marketing is with this particular product it's going to be easier than with most because for various reasons people have a tremendous appetite for hemp products they don't there's a large portion of the population that haven't had this marketing program in place that people want to support it they sense what it really means they're excited about legal hemp after all this time being illegal and they know about the nutritional benefits of it and the ecological benefits strangely the demand for it is already there and you know we were talking a minute ago about some of the ways it can replace other products we use we learned in one of our senate committees we heard about a farm a small farmer in France I think he had a five acre farm and he used one quarter acre to grow hemp and produced on his farm in a low tech still method produced all his fuel for his tractors from that one quarter acre of hemp so this is a small farmer who has eliminated his fuel cost and it's just tremendous what that could mean for a farm yeah and you can only imagine some of the possibility I mean it would be phenomenal imagine if we had an airline industry that was all powered by locally grown hemp you know moving people and goods around by our own fuel you know that's to me is closing the loop so to say in terms of you had mentioned earlier some of the bigger picture things about this um it's striking to me that this is something that it's been suppressed for so long for various reasons but really this is one of the most remarkable plants on earth you mentioned earlier how it's grown been grown for thousands of years and it's been going in hundreds of cultures and what that says to me even without knowing anything about it scientifically or botanically something that has spread around the world that has become a traditional use a traditional crop for hundreds of different cultures it speaks so much about what its value really is and this is even before we've come to this new wave that we're on now of understanding some of its medicinal properties you know even before that just based on oil, fiber, recreational uses nutrition it's already was established in hundreds of places as one of the most useful plants on the planet really that's really exciting to think that in the next few years maybe we'll get past this legal challenge that has prevented its potential from helping our planet and not only that but it's also been a part of America's history it's been part of our history the U.S. Constitution is written on hemp the word canvas is from you know the root word of cannabis which means hemp which primarily hemp was used as a canvas as something to either write on or paint on George Washington famously said everyone should plant hemp everywhere and it's very exciting getting back to our roots so to say is what we need to do just talking maybe some more of the economics around it one of the things that when a farmer looks at when they go for hemp and grow hemp is that they look at what kind of products can I sell what can I produce from my hemp crop that we'll sell and so it's primarily the seed and the fiber so what a farmer does is they'll either grow out for seed or for fiber but what some of them are learning is it's more economical to do both even though it's a little harder you get more bang for your buck per acre and you get a bigger return on your investment so I hope that our farmers will actually do both because we have limited land so we don't have wide swaths of acres like let's say in the Midwest where they're able to do that so I think being efficient with our land use minimizing our footprint and just producing something local that people can use and potentially export as well I think will be a win-win-win for everybody and I really do appreciate what you do at the legislator in terms of championing hemp alongside also representative Cynthia Thielen she's been a long advocate of industrial hemp as well as Mike Gabbard as well, Senator Mike Gabbard so all of you guys I really appreciate what you've done and looking our generation, these future generations of Hawaii are looking for an economic opportunity where we can dive in and I think this provides this bill will help provide a kind of pathway to starting a new economic industry so it's exciting, it's exciting to see about there is one thing with hemp is that there are still legal hurdles, it's not easy so just because the pilot project is there there are hurdles and talking to researchers here in the field they have told me specifically that the DEA has given them a hard time on importing the seeds and it's even been harder to import the seeds from state to state ironically not internationally but from state to state it's being needed harder so I'm hoping that those hurdles will get we'll cross over those hurdles together some of these regulations will start to dissolve and people will be able to grow this more freely and we'll be able to improve our economy here in Hawaii and once again thank you Senator Russell Ruderman for joining our show and talking about industrial hemp and the future economic opportunities and challenges here in Hawaii. Thank you for having me. Thanks.