 It's a real privilege to be here. And what's interesting is that both these amazing people, I hesitated for a moment before calling them people because they have such dimensions to them. But both of them have come to this whole topic of wisdom from very different perspectives. Dr. Chopra comes at this as a doctor, as a scientist, and a very eloquent seeker, and has sort of given us so much to think about coming at it from a scientific basis and then moving into many more theories and thoughts. Satguru comes at it as a mystic, as somebody who has sort of seen some of the unknowable and has come to us with a whole bunch of knowledge from that angle. But essentially, the three broad perspectives, they say. And then that's just a set of contexts, and then we can get into the questions. It's number one, they say, look, you have to look at the world through a different prism. You have to change your whole prism through which you view your own life is a broad theme. The second broad theme, if you like, and it ties all back into modern wisdom, the second broad theme is that if you were able to do that, you would have unimmeasurable benefits for the body. And Dr. Chopra has been the expert in talking about the body and Satguru as well, for the mind, because how you experience life is who you are. And then that creates a ripple effect because it makes you better people, and then you could create a better planet. So that's theme number two. And then theme number three is to do that, you have to do a whole lot of things. This is not something that just happens easily. You have to go through a lot of rigorous discipline, and you need a science and technology to get there, essentially, and that science and technology comes in the form of yoga, and different forms of yoga, different forms of inner engineering, and self-inquiry, self-knowledge, self-discipline, and so on that Dr. Chopra talks about. So there's many, many techniques. So these are three broad themes. Has your own thinking changed over the last? I mean, you both have been talking about variations of this topic for a very long time. Can you just tell us, has that changed a lot? Can you both take that question? First of all, thank you for that amazing invocation you really created the atmosphere here. And it's a great honor to meet you again, Satguru, after all these years. I remember playing frisbee with you in Puerto Rico. And of course, Dr. Jairaman, one day I will be like you. So yeah, my thinking has changed in the sense that when I started moving out of mainstream so-called scientific thinking, I was trying to establish in my mind the connection between mind and body. And over the last four decades, I have realized, which has been obvious to great sages throughout the centuries, that there's no system of thought that can access truth or reality. Whether it's a scientific system of thought or a mathematical system of thought, or these days we talk about quantum physics, none of these systems of thought can give us the experience of reality. Because reality is beyond thought. Reality is inconceivable to the mind. These systems of thought, even scientific systems of thought create models of reality. Not reality, but models of reality. And we have faith in them because once we understand the model, we can create technology. So we can create jet planes and bombs and mechanized death and internet and all the wonderful things. So we think science gives us access to reality. But even science is an activity in something that is not mind, that is not matter, for lack of a better word, it's a field of awareness. What the great sage is called Brahman. And the universe is a modified form of that. Your mind, your body and the universe out there is all conceived, constructed, governed and the becoming of a non-local, inconceivable, dimensionless reality which is not in space and time. Now this is very difficult for the modern person to grasp. Okay, but it's actually part of the, since we're talking about ancient wisdom traditions, if you read the Yoga Vaishishtha, it says that which cannot be seen but without which there's no seeing. That which cannot be perceived but without which there's no perception. Cannot be imagined but without that which there is no imagination, creativity, insight, intuition, choice. Everything that we call reality comes from an inconceivable, dimensionless, non-local domain which is not in space time. So, you know when Lord Krishna talks about it, water cannot wet it, wind cannot dry it, weapons cannot shatter it, fire cannot burn it, it's ancient, it's unborn, it's not subject to death. Now that's inconceivable to the mind but it's experiential when you settle into awareness, when you settle into being, when you settle into existence, what is called satchitananda or tatvamasi and you saw the video where he expressed his experience. That's not an intellectual experience. That is a transcendent experience. I'll stop there. Satguru, you come at it from knowing. Tell us how your own thinking has changed, how your own knowledge has changed. I mean, I cannot say much about thought because I don't have much thought. This may sound like an oxymoron for people but the fact of the matter is most of the time I don't have any thought in me. For me, the phenomenon of life that's happening within me always overwhelms everything else. Thought occurs to me only when I want to physically do something, arrange something around me. Otherwise, days on end will pass for me without a single thought. So, maybe I never grew up. In a way, yes, because when it comes to people ask me, what has been your sadhana? My only sadhana has been that right from my childhood, I never got identified with anything. Either the family or the culture or the religion or the society or various other things happening around you including your parentage, your siblings, I was involved with them but never identified with anything. If human intelligence does not tie itself down with identity, every human being will realize the nature of life. Human intelligence is capable of figuring this. When I say intelligence as Deepak pointed out, it's beyond the thought process and fortunately, because of the type of education systems we have today, we are completely committed to one dimension of our intelligence which we call as the intellect, which is just the thought process. Thought can only happen with the data that you have gathered through five senses, which is very limited, one thing. Another thing is, the nature of data that the senses gather are only useful for survival process. The very nature of how you see things, how you hear, smell and taste and touch life is only relevant for survival process. If you're wanting to know the life itself, then these instruments of perception are no good. Even what is light and darkness is a debate between you and another creature which sees darkness as light, isn't it? If you sit with an owl and start an argument as to which is light and which is darkness, it's an endless argument, but who do you think is right? Hello? If you're saying both, you're either in the diplomatic corps or you have a successful marriage. You'll learn to say both, both, but which is the truth? What I see is the truth or what the owl sees is the truth? That's not the point, it is just that nature has opened up our sense perception as it is necessary for our survival. Accordingly, it has opened up sense perceptions for different creatures as it is necessary for their survival. But if survival is all you're seeking, this is good enough, the five senses. But once you have come as a human being, somehow survival is not good enough. If your stomach is empty, there's only one issue about food. But once the stomach becomes full, you have a hundred issues going on. So the nature of the human being is such, no matter what you do, you want to be something more than what you are right now. And if that something more happens, something more, something more, it's an endless pursuit. So somewhere a human being is seeking a limitless expansion, but trying to do it with physical means. The very nature of physicality is a defined boundary. If there is no defined boundary, there is no possibility of physical happening in the universe. But now a human being is longing for the boundless, that too in installments. And through physical means, through the boundary you're trying to become boundless, the desire is fantastic, the method is hopeless. Because the moment you identify yourself with something, your intellect's work is just to protect that identity. If you… whatever the identities of nation or family or gender or race, religion, whatever, the moment you identify yourself with something, your intellect will only function around that to protect that. So it is a certain type of prejudice, the moment you're identified. So the only thing I did with my life is, I never identified myself with anything and life just exploded within me in ways that thought seemed so puny that I do not indulge in thought most of the time. You know, what you're saying, for all of us here in some way, shape or form, we all pride ourselves on thinking human beings. This is… this is a tough pill to swallow. Thinking is just recycling of the data that you already gathered. So what is the leap of faith that you go from this… from this perspective of thinking and thoughts to, we don't belong to anyone, you know, we are not identified with any instrument, with any sort of localness. And I know both of you have spoken about that. The thing is, this is not something that people will not get. They will get this, this is not some great teaching I'm telling you. If you get it right now in your life, your life will transform in ways that you can't imagine possible. Otherwise someday you will get it from the maggots. You will understand you don't belong to anything. So, you are the entire culture of what is… what you're calling as Bharat is about vairag. The word vairag means… rag means color, vairag means beyond color. But if you say colorless in English language, it is a very negative connotation of being colorless. Let's put it as transparent. Because it's transparent, it can take on the color of anything right now. Right now, if my background is red, I'm red. If it's yellow, I'm yellow. I'm taking the… picking the colors from you, okay? Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it. Well, blue and gold aren't bad either. Dr. K. would you do something to add to that? Just to elaborate on what he said. You're listening to us here. Now just for a moment, turn your attention to who or what is listening. What he experiences being, right? Another word for awareness or existence. It's not a thought. Thought is what creates the subject-object split. Being is all there is. And being is not a thought. So as even now, if I ask you, are you aware? That's being. Now everything else is just a modulation of that. It's a feeling or a thought or a sensation or a perception. We call that the mind, we call that the body, we call that the universe. But all there is is being and its modulations. Because what you experience is sensations, images, feelings, and thoughts, and then you say, oh, that's a tree. That's a body, that's a universe, that's a rock. There are just different combinations of being and its modulations. Did you all understand that? Thorasa, some. It's a very, and I think this is part of the complexity. I think we all struggle with that. Because you try to explain it in words. But again, as you're listening, turn to who is listening? And I think Dr. Chopra, the interesting question is, and Sadguru, this is for you as well. Essentially what we are doing in this whole process of asking all of us to change the prisoners, you're essentially asking us to experience it in some way. He said the mistake of the intellect. It's the mistake of the intellect that there is separation between observer and observed. Because the observer and observed as mind and body are a single holistic activity of the total universe. And if you go back, I think in the earlier session, there was quotes from the Gita, and I know you all, and you've spoken about that as a Sadguru about, and so the whole, not now. But basically, but I'm sorry, then it was Dr. Chopra, you had spoken about the different forms of the, on the different forms of yoga that have been, you know, the Raji Yoga, the Bhakti Yoga, the path of devotion. And we know that it's been spoken about in the Gita. So what's so difficult? What is the barrier that people haven't seen it yet? It seems, in a way, it's an experience. It seems, you know, it seems obvious at one level, and it's yet very difficult to grasp on the other. Could you just talk to us about what the barriers are? For some of us who were brought up, educated in a scientific world view, or in a world view that emphasizes recycled information, as he said, or all of that, it's very difficult to intellectually get to being because we identify, as he said, with our perceptual experience, with our intellect, with our mind, with our ego identity. So it always seems a struggle till one day you stop struggling and you're there. And as he said, he never identified with anything. Once you identify with the thought or with the perception or with what you think is annoying or a sensation or an emotion, then you're in time. Thought is in time, but being is not in time. I mean, I'm completely spiritually uneducated. I don't know from where I have quoted. I have not quoted generally except the grandmother Gita that's around us. I have to admit that I have neither read the Gita nor the Vedas nor the Upanishads, nor even the Yoga Sutra. I've never studied anything. The most profound literature that I read, I read English literature just for fun because I like the language. Otherwise, the most profound stuff that I read is asterisks. Is what? Asterisks, asterisks, asterisks comics, yeah. Because why I'm saying this is, I have, this is the, this is what it is. For example, a modern scientist is trying to deduce, mathematically deduce the reality. Everything has to fit in to his math and he will deduct everything and say the entire universe is one, but it's not in his experience. A religious person will say, God is everywhere, so everything is one, but it's not yet in his experience. He believes one is deduxting with the making deductions, another is believing. A yogi is a hard nut who doesn't believe anything, who doesn't want to reduce anything unless it becomes real within him, it's not real for him. So, because of this approach, I never found the need to read anything spiritual. If I read something, it may be a news magazine or literature or something else, but never anything spiritual because I never wanted to clutter my own clarity with anything outside. And the only thing, the only and only thing I know is, I know this piece of life from its origin to its ultimate and that's all. Because you know this piece of life, by inference you seem to know everything else. Today there is a certain theory coming out which is called as the constructional theory, what they're trying to say is whether you take an amoeba or a human being, whether you take the atomic or the cosmic, the fundamental design is same. It is just a sophistication and the complexity is multiplying. So if the fundamental design is same, if you want to know the entire universe, you just have to know this. And this is the only thing that's available to you, accessible to you. When I say this is the only thing available and accessible to you, see right now you believe that you can see me sitting here, but that's not the fact of the matter. The fact is light is falling upon me, reflecting, going through your lenses, inverted image in the retina, you know the entire story. So if you see me, you see me only within you. If you hear me, you hear me only within you. Whatever ever happened to you, light and darkness happens within you, pain and pleasure happens within you, joy and misery happens within you, agony and ecstasy happens within you. Right now if I touch your hand, you think you're experiencing my hand, no. You're only experiencing the sensations in your hand, or in other words, the entire human experience is happening within you. The very seat of your experience is within you. What is happening within you, at least you must be able to determine. What is happening within you must happen the way you want it. If what happens within you happens the way you want it, suddenly your ability to create what you want to happen in the world also is tremendously enhanced, not because you know the world, because you know this. This is why realization as was held as the biggest thing, you must understand it's realization, it's not an achievement, it is not an attainment, it's a realization. Realization means it's always there. I was stupid enough not to see it, suddenly one day I saw it. That's what realization means. Never we said any inner things or accomplishments or achievements, they are not any kind of peak climbing. It's just a realization, it's always been there. It was always been there to see, so everybody's quoting Geetha, let me also quote, at some point it seems Arjuna asked, I don't know whether it's made up by somebody, it's really in Geetha, please correct me if it is so. It seems Arjuna asked that, where is this truth that you're talking about? This intangible unperceivable truth, where is it? It seems Krishna laughed and said, it's at the tip of your nose. Now there are many schools of yoga, which are intensely focusing on the tips of their noses and getting headache. Try and see. What he's trying to say is, it is the most obvious thing. The most obvious thing, if you pay attention to your existence, not to your thought, not to your emotion, not to the arrangements of life that you've made around you. If you pay attention to the nature of your existence, it is the most obvious thing. It's at the tip of your nose is a metaphor in India that it is the most obvious thing. But by focusing on the tip of the nose, enlightenment will not happen, headache is guaranteed. So picking up on Satguru's point, Dr. Chopra, so what is scientific inquiry in this, with this construct, which is, hey, it's realization, it is a knowing. And what answers to questions? One of the few lucky ones, I've known two other people who said what he said, that, thank God I never read anything. One was Maharishi Maheshogi. He used to always say, thank God I never read anything because it would have cluttered my mind. And the other was Krishnamurti. He would say the same thing. That the more you read, the more you clutter your mind. And he also would say, I've never read anything. So that's unusual. He happens to have fallen into existence because he fell into existence, okay, or awareness, or whatever you wanna call it, being. I was not, I struggled, okay. I'd read all the scientific literature, medical literature, psychology, Jungian psychology, I read the Bhagavad Gita, every single translation. I read Brig Veda, I read Yoga Vashishta, I read Kashmir Sherwism, Vedanta, all of that. No, you shouldn't, your mind will get cluttered. So at this stage in my life, I also want to know what they said in the past. Yeah, well, they said what you're saying. I mean, they said exactly what you're saying. But for me, as a person who had been trained to look at things scientifically, it was both a struggle and a need, because reality is not a map, and yet science gives us maps. The Yoga Vashishta gives us a map, Patanjali gives us a map, the Bhagavad Gita gives us a map. Some of us need maps. Okay, if I'm going from here to Boston and you give me a map, a road map, or a contour map, or a seam map, or an air map, and I take the road map and I get to Rhode Island and it works. Now I get this. I think the reason why I didn't read the maps is I met someone who was a GPS. That's good. But GPS is also a map, right? So once again. I thought you said GPS is the guru positioning system. It's your turn. So once you use a map and it works for, the map seems valid from here to Rhode Island, then I assume, for me who's not had this experience of falling into the place of no thought, then I say, you know, if the map is working up to here, maybe it works from here to there as well. So it's a kind of a psychological validation. And I'll just stop in a moment, but for the last 10 years at our center, when we teach people to sit in reflection, contemplative self inquiry, or transcendence, or take them through what we call the wheel of awareness, a vipassana, or body awareness, or awareness inside the body, or awareness of mental space, we've been doing it now for 25 years. But last five, 10 years, we've been able to look at the brain, we've been able to look at gene expression, we've been able to look at cell markers of aging, telomerase, telomere length, we've been able to look at what are called inflammatory markers, in other words, everything that's happening in the body at a biological cell level. 23,000 genes, 3.3 million bacterial genes. Actually, your body is more bacteria than it is human cells, the microbiome. So we're looking at those genes, and then we're looking at what is called the epigenome, which is the shell of proteins outside the genome, and how these work together. And what we are finding is remarkable. You know, in the beginning, nobody would believe us, but now we have collaborations with the Harvard, UCSF, UCSD, Scripps with digital technology, with Duke University with Mount Sinai. We can look at a blood sample, and we can tell you, just by looking at the blood sample and the gene expression, if you're experiencing Samadhi occasionally or not, if your mind is quiet or not, if you're falling into the place where he has... You have that our parents experience this. Parents too. In fact, the epigenetic shows that your experiences, your experiences now, which are not in your brain, by the way. Everybody says, my experience is in my brain. It's not in your brain. Your experiences are not in your body. Your experiences are in a non-local consciousness, which is not in space-time. But whatever, that's a whole different discussion. But we can now, in fact, our collaborators, this is a joke, actually, but it tells you where science is. One of our collaborators, who's Eric Schaert here at Mount Sinai, he does genomic expression. He does RNA transcription. He looks at what is called the transcriptome. He showed a slide. He says, this is a genetic signature of people who are experiencing Samadhi. And these are people that he had studied at our center. So somebody asked him in the audience, he said, Dr. Schaert, do you meditate? He said, no. He says, are you going to learn? He said, no. He said, but you just showed us the signature, the genetic signature of somebody who does. He says, yeah, but I'll figure out how to make a drug out of this. So what Deepak is saying is, if you are children or brats, it's you. Yes, it is you. It is you. Seven generations, you know, in Hawaii they have these temples and cow farms. If a cow has been zapped electrically, the next generation of cows will not go to the fence. They already know it's electrical and they might get shocked. Okay, then the following generation. Now people have done experiments right here where you take mice and you have them smell wintergreen, which is a very pleasant smell. Then they get mild electrical shocks. The next seven generations of mice will be scared by smelling wintergreen. So this is the first window that's opening into what we call sanskaras or vasanas. You know, we have two identical twins and they have the same genome. In fact, exactly the same genome, but they're not the same people, right? They have different, mother will tell you that they have different personalities. Where is the seat of this personality? Where is it coming from? This is why science opens the window to what people already knew actually in our tradition. And it's interesting that even if science opens the window, and I think both of you have said it in different ways that it's just a very small, it's still like boiling the ocean in a kerosene stove, because science can only go so far because there's so many forms of knowing and so many forms of seeing as you have said. So it's a challenge, I imagine. Even science is a series of realizations, okay? I mean, science is not outside of this. Science has evolved because of series of realizations, but happening in small spurts, not grasping the entirety of it, but in bits and pieces, realization and realization and realization, this is what it is. We say he discovered something, but what it is, is he observed something. He realized that this is the way it works, some aspect of it. And knowing the physical dimension of how it functions allows you to do many things to the physical world, which you'll see in the form of technology today. Very important thing though, but science has now brought us to what we call the portal or the door of the sub-empirical. And the sub-empirical is less than 0.01% of the unmanifest, which is scientifically unknowable, not unknown, unknowable, because how do you measure something that is totally unmanifest? It's not in space time, okay? So once you get beyond, you know, I think if I can elaborate on this for just one minute, the two most open questions in science today, there are 150 open questions, but the two most open questions, the number one is what is the universe made of? And the answer is we don't know, because 96% of the universe is invisible, what they call dark energy, dark matter, but it's not, you know, those are words, they don't know exactly what it is. One is expanding the universe, one is contracting the universe. Dark energy, 96%, that leaves 4% of the universe, which is atomic. Of that 4%, 99.99% is invisible interstellar dust, which hasn't become stars and galaxies. So the visible universe, which is all the galaxies, the billions of stars, the trillions of planets is 0.01%. Now that 0.01% which is made of atoms is made of particles, but particles, when you're not looking at particles, or when they're not interacting with other particles, they disappear, they become waves. So what's the universe made of? Nothing, and this is a scientific fact. The second open question is, where does consciousness come from? And scientists are struggling because they think consciousness is a production of the brain. Just like, you know, bile is a production of your gallbladder, or acid is a production of your stomach, pancreatic juice is made by your pancreas. Oh, so consciousness made by the brain. So they keep struggling. This is called the hard problem of consciousness. Sadguru mentioned photons. Okay, this is the hard problem. This, I'll just stop in one second, but right now you're looking at this, this is blue, this red, you're seeing this beautiful shirt. What's coming to your eyes are colorless photons. What's going to your brain is an electrical current. What's happening in your brain is chemistry. You're not experiencing chemistry or electrical currents. You're experiencing a three dimensional reality in space time. No one knows how that happens. So they keep struggling and struggling. If I ask you to imagine a beautiful sunset on the ocean, do it right now. You see a picture. There's no picture in your brain. So you know, the fact that the brain produces consciousness is just an idea. Nobody has ever proved that. Consciousness is not in the brain. The brain is in consciousness. The body is in consciousness. The mind is in consciousness. The whole universe is in consciousness. And you cannot get at it through a system of thought. What to further, you know, make it into an experiential process, what Deepak said just now. You obviously cannot access it with thought process because thought is an accumulated information which you're recycling according to your convenience. Right now, our ideas of who we are or what I am and what I am not is determined by this. If you just do this simple experiment right now, take your right hand and touch your left hand, please all of you, can you do this? Is that you? Is that you? Yes. Just touch the chair on which you're sitting. Is that you? Oh, who's this? It is. You own the... It is. Now, in your experience, this is me and this is not me. The basis of this experience is coming from this. Where there is a sensation, you think it's me. Where there is no sensation, you think it's not me. Right now, the water in the glass is not you, but if you consume it, it becomes you. And these whatever number of kilograms you carry right now, all this was all over the planet and today it's me. The air that you breathe, what is not you is becoming you. The food on your table, what is not you is becoming you right now. This moment, what is not you in a couple of hours, it becomes you. So your experience of myself is basically the boundaries of your sensation. The nature of the boundaries of sensation are such. If you allow your life energies to be in a certain level of exuberance, you will see the boundaries of your sensation will expand. You can just know this just by rubbing your hands and holding it like this, you will see something begins to happen between your hands. There are sensations transmitting between the two hands. Or if you've been very joyful or ecstatic at a certain moment, you will see sensations seem to be all over the place. If you create a certain system within you where your life energies are kept in a certain level of exuberance, then the sensory body will expand. If the sensory body, let us say, became as big as this hall, then you will experience everything in this hall and everybody in this hall as a part of yourself. Like you experience the five fingers of your hand as yourself right now. So what is referred to as yoga is, the word yoga means union. That means you experience the entire universe as yourself. This is happening because you are in a such a state of you have found a mechanism by working with the body, by working with the mind, by working with the emotion and energy, you have set up a step-by-step system within yourself where your energies are kept at such a level of exuberance that your sensory body is as large as the universe. So if you sit here, you experience the entire universe as myself. Once you experience everybody around you as yourself, then I don't have to tell you, don't kill this person, don't drop that person, don't harm this, all morality will be useless for you because you have experienced everything as myself. You don't have to try to be good. Your goodness is a consequence. Your goodness is not an effort. What he said, he's saying it experientially, okay? But the fact is, if you ask scientists, are there any boundaries in the universe? They'll tell you there isn't. Every boundary is notional or perceptual and we don't know how perception occurs anyway. So boundaries are conceptual ideas. There are no boundaries in the universe. There are no boundaries to your skin. In fact, what he said is your body is the entire ecosystem. It's not only the entire ecosystem of the planet, the carbon, the hydrogen, the oxygen, the nitrogen came from galaxies. So the carbon in your fingernails and the hydrogen in your eyes or the oxygen in your blood could have come from different galaxies. You are the total universe. At this moment, a pattern of behavior in space-time. And before I say Jack Robinson, you're a different activity anyway. There is no permanent activity as a noun. You are not a noun, you're a verb. And the verb is the activity of the total universe. Eye. The most frequent word we use is eye. So I say, where are you? You say, I'm here, okay? And so then I can ask you, okay, you're here, but where am I? You say, you're there. You say, where is the eye in you experiencing seeing me? I do this with neuroscientists and they'll say in my eyes. I say, your eyes are this big, they're nine centimeters apart, the retina is curved. By the time light gets into your retina, it's inverted, you should be seeing two of me about this size upside down, nine centimeters apart. You're not having that experience. Then they point to the brain and say, how do I fit inside your brain? How does this room fit inside your brain? How does the whole world fit inside your brain? There's no answer for this in science, by the way. Rumeen, there's a beautiful point where you look at your eyes, they're so small, they see enormous things. So where is the eye that is experiencing this conversation right now? Where is it? It's the wrong question. It has no location and space or time. That is who I is and the whole universe is in I. Just let's wrap up this segment of the discussion. If you had $10 billion to spend on scientific exploration or giving experiences to people to get their own path of realization, where would you spend it? Both of you. I want individual answers. 10, 12 words or less. The answer is obvious, experience, but I would have a problem with that because I work with scientists. I'm going from here to a conference on science. I need to be able to talk to my peers. Okay, so while the answer is experience, and experience doesn't cost $10 billion, I would probably go science just because I'm still struggling with my scientific peers. Satguru? The experience has not become widespread because there is no infrastructure. Neither physical infrastructure nor human infrastructure. For example, in this country 150 years ago, they tell me over 94% of the people were illiterate. Today 100% literacy, how does it happen? Because somebody built a schoolroom, somebody trained the teachers. That infrastructure for inner experience has been wiped out through in the last few centuries. So how do you expect it to happen? One guy talking here, one guy talking there is not going to make it happen. What should be a part of our life from the day we start? Because the nature of human intelligence is such that if you don't mess it up with belief systems, every human being will find it. Too many concepts, too many ideas, too many belief systems, human intelligence is corrupt from the beginning. If you do not corrupt human intelligence, just leave it. Every human being is capable of knowing this. It is not some super human thing. The most important thing to remember is this yoga, this spiritual process is not about becoming super human. It is about knowing that being human itself is super. What's your definition of success? Success is the ability to love and have compassion. Success is, to some people, the progressive realization of worthy goals. Success ultimately is knowing who you are. Satguru? If you can be blissed out, no matter what's happening around you, if you can be involved and still not be affected by what's happening around you, not by removing yourself, you're absolutely involved but untouched by the process of life, I think that's success. Second question, where we'll go a little bit into the world's phase, if what advice would you give Angela Merkel today? Compassion or sovereignty? It's obvious, compassion. There's no such thing as sovereignty. I think all nationalism is a sophisticated form of tribalism. I think your essential being has no religion, no race, no gender, no assumed identity. It's pure consciousness. So obviously I would say compassion. Let them all in, the migrants, you go. Being a very big economic force, what she's managing right now, I would say if they do not invest in conflict, we won't even need their compassion. People will be fine by themselves. You should stop investing in conflict. People… I have heard people going to Sudan and trying to stop conflict there, conflict here, leave all this. You know who is supplying the guns, you know who is supplying the ammunition. Every day you see these terrorists or whatever shooting in the sky, obviously there's no dearth for ammunition. Isn't it? They're not even shooting other people. They have lots of it, they're shooting the sky. So obviously someone is continuously supplying. We know where it is manufactured. I will give you the addresses if you want. Just stop it. Stop the supply of ammunition. You can't take away the guns all right? You can take away the ammunition. At least hacking down people, they will get tired at least. Right now there is powerful mechanisms to do this. So if you do not invest in conflict, if you do not invest in creating problems in the world, we will not need your compassion. And as a final question, if there are… there is a saying or an affirmation that we could all use in our everyday lives as we all progress in our quest, whatever that quest is, what would that be? What would you advise to each one? What… what do each one hold? Would you… would you like to share with us? Might seem very banal. Take it easy. Easy come, easy go. That's my epitaph. There is no need to believe or disbelieve anything. What you know, you know. What you do not know, you do not know. If this one thing comes into every human being, everything will run smoothly around us. Thank you both. Ladies and gentlemen, let's give a very big hand to Satguru and Deepak Chopra.