 Under robeaton, yn ymlaen, wedi ymlaen, dyma'r cyffredinol er mwyn, am eich cynhwyl i Llyfrgell, ymlwch yn Llyfrgell dros Ffoxden 4. Roeddwn i, mynd i'n trafodaeth yma, a bryd ymlaen i ddim yn sefydlu'r cyffredinol. Ymlaen i'r cyffredinol o'r cyffredinol, mynd i'n rhai trafodaeth i Llyfrgell. Ydw i'n meddwl Rwmomeim yma. Ydw i'n meddwl Rwmomeim yma i'n meddwl Pryddyn Hywwysau Gydaeith Jadwyr Ffwrdd Hyfyrdd, ydw i'n meddwl Rwyf yn Gwyl Gwyllachol, ydw i ar y meddwl Rwmomeim yma. Rwyf wedi'u meddwl byddai gyda throne Ceirleddau Ringolol. Ynny y galladraeth, mae'n mun details o Bwysig Aberlaeth rynnwys i'n gwir y tro! Ynno'n ddigonol i chi i chi i wneud sy'n cyfwyd-ynghylchrefferol ar y gynnig. Ynno'n ddigonol i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi, Ac i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi i chi cynnyniem yn siŵf mewn awr? wiriwch ymddangos i'r Lluigur i'r Lluigur. Prif Bod yn fawr y Prif hwn o'r Lluigur, byddwn yn amser i'r Lluigur i'r Ystafell i ymddangos byd. Rwy'n gweithioais ymddangos, iawn o'r Lluigur i'r Ffyrdd. Rydw i fawr, ymddangos i'r Lluigur? Mae'r Beth Ffyrdd. Rydw i'r rhaglen gweithio ar hyn y 36. Byddwn ni gwneud o gyfre wokll y sgwyd? Rydw i ddim yn arfynol., roedd chi yn rhywbeth ar y cwysbydd. Cymru i'r unig? Dyna rhywbeth ar hynny. Dyma? Ie, Simon Bathby yn ystod yn Y Llais i'r Llais i'r Chwrswy. Yn Michael Turner. Yn gyhoedd y Llais i'r llais i'r Llais. Diolch i chi yn hawdd. Diolch i chi. Yn yllai yma, dym ni'n gweld yone o eich cyd-i'r gwahud. Dyna chi'n gweld ychydig i chi, I was, to my recall, how to the original team that looked at your application, the original licensing committee. I'm declaring that, but I come to the matter of fresh today. The other thing that we need to think about for procedure is, there is a lot of work going on in the building, as you can see and hear. So, is everybody happy if we close this door, where the noise is mainly coming from? We've opened, Aaron has opened the back door there, so we have got air movement. Is everybody happy with that? And it's also for you to decide yourselves if you wish to wear fair masks or not. We are not doing this afternoon, but it's entirely up to your own selves. OK. The application in front of us is to various premises license for LJ Sandwich Bar. So, I am going to ask the officers if they could go through the agenda as an introduction for the afternoon, please. Thank you, chair. So, on the 25th of October 2021, an application for the variation of a premises license for LJ Sandwich Bar and Barista, located on 40 Church Street, Gamlingay SG-19 3JH, was submitted to the licensing authority and advertised and consulted upon. The application is to extend the terminal hour for the supply of alcohol for consumption on the premises from 12pm until 10.30pm Monday to Sunday. The current license, which is Appendix D, currently permits the supply of alcohol from 12pm until 3pm Monday to Wednesday and 12pm until 9pm Saturdays and Sundays. It's also to extend the opening hours of the premises until 11pm each day to enable a 30 minutes drinking up time following the last sale of alcohol. It's also to amend the existing condition so as to read, the courtyard will be closed to customers for the consumption of alcohol and or food after 11pm every day. The condition currently states until 9pm every day. So environmental health have requested that this be reduced to 9.30pm each day and this has been agreed by the applicant. See paragraph 10 in the agenda. The application has been subject to representations from Gamlingay Parish Council and four local residents. So these are attached as Appendix G1 to G5 from page 37. At paragraph 12 in the report, reference is made to one representation being submitted with audio clips. The submission was in fact video audio clips and photographs which have been circulated to the applicant. The applicant's audio clip submission and supplementary photographs and documents have been circulated now to all parties. In attendance today we have the applicant Mr Lani and his partner Ms Green. Attending remotely we have Mr and Mrs Bathby who submitted a representation and a Mr Turner. Officers from Environmental Health are also present today. We have Rory here and two officers remotely. Members, when considering the application, should be aware that they may only take into account parts of the application or objections relating to the licensing objectives, which are the prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance and the protection of children from harm. Members have the right under the Licensing Act 2003 to determine this application after considering the relevant representations. Members may A. Grant the application as it was submitted. B. Reject the application or C. Grant the application by imposed conditions that promote the licensing objectives. All parties will maintain a right to appeal to Magistrates Court after the determination of this committee. If there are no questions this concludes my introduction. Thank you very much. Two initial questions were one informative. We have prior to the meeting started listened to the audio information that we've been given. We went through both that came from the firm and also from the neighbors. So we have listened to that. We haven't discussed it. It was merely to listen to it as further evidence. So we have done that. Can I just check with you, Brooke? Are we now saying that there has been an agreement of by the applicant that the time would now be 9.30. Every night with a 30 minute time on top of that for drinking up. So the condition was let me just say this is just for the courtyard. At the moment it has an additional condition on the license which says no food and they want to extend it to 11 p.m. But environmental health and the applicant have agreed that it will be 9.30 p.m. A half an hour for drinking up. No, so it's 9.30. End of. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Can I just make very clear on this please. So we were referring to paragraph 10. So the courtyard may still be used for food after 9 o'clock, but not alcohol, is that correct? No, so the condition that stands is alcohol and or food, so both. So the courtyard will be closed at 9.30 p.m. Right. So no alcohol or food to be consumed in the courtyard. When you say 9.30, you threw me a little bit then, but I can see on the different days it's different times. Okay, that's fine. Thank you. Any questions, Councillor Howe? That's Jones, that's Hitch. Jones, sorry. On the other one. I know. The two thorns. The other question that I'm going to ask you is, have you sort of any idea in time wise how long your presentation information will take because we need to make sure that the other party is going to have that same amount of time if they require it. So have you any idea how long you're likely to be taking? Not long at all really. We just answer their questions, whatever they would like to have the chance to answer what they put forward. If that's okay. Yes, so you don't want to make a presentation. You're just going to answer the questions. You're just going to answer whatever they put forward. I need to ask the other party, have you got any further presentations? Obviously, we've read all the information that has come to us that's in the file and also listened to the audio earlier this afternoon. Is there something that you would like to specifically say at this time in relation to your concerns? No, I'm quite comfortable if you read the documentation that you have all the information, so I won't waste your time by repeating it. And the other people with you? Similarly? I'm fond with that. I'll check what I want to say. Sorry, can I just get a clarification? The original, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Thank you. Last three years ago, the application, once we agreed to it, identified the limited use of next door and the courtyard and talked about not using after 9.30. Did I understand that with regard to the new application, there's been a conversation between environmental and Louis and Jill that rather than 10.30, 11 o'clock, they're now looking to go back to the existing arrangements or be on more days? Rachel, can you clarify that please? It's confirmed the agreement for the 9.30pm for the use of the courtyard, but obviously the application is still for the extension of hours for the interior of the premises. So, gentlemen, what has been suggested is only suggested and there's no agreement whatsoever at this moment in time, but what's been suggested is two different times. One for the courtyard, which is the earlier time, but they are still requesting the other times for the internal building side. I'll kick off with some questions to the applicants. Given the fact that three years ago you did get your application through and this is a different changing of time, can you tell us, first of all, really why you feel that you need this extra time? Because originally you felt that the hours that were given was adequate, so why have you first of all had a change of mind on timing, please? Basically, the last two years has been a struggle, as I'm sure you're aware, and we feel with the distancing and all the controls in place, i.e. trying to get people to stay outside and try and stay ventilated and whatever, it has been really hard. We have to limit the amount of people that we have in there because of this, and people come and a lot of people work outside the village when they come and use us in the evening. They can't come round till 7 o'clock, 7 o'clock, we're then very restricted to how many people we can have and we've found it very, very difficult to make a living from that. So what we now, and also the people that do use us have all been coming to us and saying, look, it's such a shame because we're always rushing, you're always rushing us to service to get us out the door. And basically, it's been the pressure from the local village people that has made us come and make this decision to actually see if we can get extended to accommodate their needs. It's for three hours. We close in the afternoon because we haven't got anybody coming in, and we get ready for the evening, and our first sit-down might be at 6 o'clock, and it's impossible to kind of turn any decent turnover in that short amount of time. That's basically the only reason we'd come back. We won't be working. We don't want it weeknights. We just really, it's for Friday and Saturday evenings because we haven't got a call for it. We haven't got customers for that the other evenings. It's just, it's just when van toren falls on a Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday, we can't open because we're not licensed to open on them evenings. So we missed out on eat out to help out because we weren't allowed to open. There's a lot of things we're missing out on which the government are now in us to do, but we're not allowed to do it because we're not licensed for them sort of days. And we've got the Queen sent Boris and Tina next year, and we're now doing a street party. If they do it on a Sunday, we won't be allowed to open because we're not licensed to sell alcohol on that day. We're allowed to open till half-none in the evening to serve food, but we're not allowed to serve alcohol. Councillor Howell wants to come through. Yeah, I'm going to ask a question. I'm looking at all this post. There's quite a lot of mention of smell. Now I appreciate that you are catering business and therefore that's going to happen. But looking at your original license, it did say there, excuse me, I just went back where I tried to find it. It said there that the obvious. Page 31. Yeah, page 31. To avoid noxious smells caused nuisance to nearby properties, the premises are to be properly vented. Do you properly vent and what have you done? We bought to brand new extract the fan after the last meeting. The government have insisted on us to keep the doors open, windows open, area open. We keep all the doors open. We keep all the windows open. We've had all new filters put in. It's an internal filter. So it will suck up, clean, blow out, cold air. It's not an external one because I know that will be complained if we put a chimney outside. So it's an external one. So we're just going by the government guidelines. We're leaving the windows open. We've got the doors open. We've got a one-way system in place. We've got all our sownage up. There's nothing else we can do. And also the only complaint we've had regarding the smell at all is from the next door neighbour. The other houses, the other side of us, all the arms houses, as you can see, they're all quite happy for us to get the extension of ours. None of them have complained about any smells or anything. The only got one person that's saying that it's like that. It's a cooking smell. Normally the windows and doors, they're shut prior to what's been going on recently. I don't think we need to explain, we know what's happening. There's also made reference on several times with regards to rodents. Could you tell me please with regards to your own pest control, which every licence, every business has to have, so it's not a problem. Could you tell me please what that says? We have three pest control boxes outside. We spoke to the neighbours at one point and we said, look, they keep saying this is wrong, that's wrong. The best thing to do is to contact yourselves. We had the environmental people turn up unexpected several times. We actually took our rating from a four star to a five star. We were very impressed with everything we had in place. The same with the Covid people. They came round and we said how cold we are. We're freezing in there. We've got every window and door open. We've had to buy our stuff extra thermals. In the middle of winter, when you've got not one door shut, it's hard going. It explains, doesn't it, what we're up to, the pressure we're up to? Every Monday morning I used to clean the bin out because I used to empty it every Monday morning. But now they've changed it to a Tuesday morning. So now every Tuesday morning I bleach it, I hose it down. It's a big green bin. Everyone can see it. It's in bird's eye view. So if there was anything towards it, someone would have complained about it. You'd have had lots of complaints. More than one complaint. It's claimed every Tuesday morning by myself. All the rack boxes, all the rodent boxes, I check every Tuesday morning, fill up the ones I need filling and put them back in place. I've got one next to the bin, one next to the back door and one next in the corner of the yard. First three bins. That's more than, you know, hopeful for the size of the yard and for the size of the shop. Also they were saying about the bin up being over full once. You can't get the lid down. And we do apologise for that, but we did phone up the local South Cams and unfortunately they explained that they had a very short staff. They were changing their routes and they've missed us. And they came round within a couple of days. We would have taken it to the disposal ourselves, but you couldn't get booked in as you know, you know, it was difficult. I feel that we were trying to, I'm trying to answer it as truthfully as I can, but I feel that any little thing that they found, they've stacked, do you know what I mean, straight away on that. It is listed, it has been reported, it's been logged, it's been phoned up and it's happened a couple of times, but that's all. I'm sure it's not their fault and they did within a couple of days come empty the bin. You know, we try our best to push that lid down when that happened. On normal circumstances it doesn't happen, but they did it, you know, it was out of our control. We couldn't get them to come out and empty it. We're short staffed, et cetera. Cymru hwnnw. Thank you. You talked about the cookahood. It's just going to move on from council house questions in regards to the cooking smells and what have you. Is this a domestic cookahood which has got the internal charco or is it? It's a commercial. It's a lincat. It's a lincat internal. It's got three filters, three motors. It's an industrial one. And it's one they recommend from indoors. It cost me two and a half grand. All of the cooking processes, are they performed underneath that cookahood? There's a griddle and two chippos. It is, and also all the cooking is not done next to the house. All the cooking, you've got their house is there, and you've got the bar, and you've got the archway. It's an old poach archway that's fully ventilated, front to back, big flat gates that open that used to pull the coaches in. So that's that there. And then you've got the sandwich bar and that's where the cooking is done. And there is nothing next to us on that cooking wall. There is nothing next to us but a driveway to their garage. So their house is building plus the way? And the wind normally blows down Church Street, not up Church Street. So it will be blowing it away from the house. So what I'd like to do is I'd like to explore why the objective would think, or it would state that cooking smells are coming into their rooms within the house, because that's what the actual evidence says. I've got no idea. All I know is they don't want a bar next to their house because it devalues their property. That's what they've told us, and that's all I know. I have a question for Lawrence, if he could, a little earlier when we were looking at the audio stuff. Aaron found us on the Google Earth. Can you find that please Aaron? That would be lovely. You can see the street scene, so that we can take from what the applicant has just said, please. So that's where we cook, where it says... Can you point out and say which one we are? Are we talking the left hand? That's where the neighbours live, that I've got the complaint. Now the bar is next door where you see Bar and Brezia. We don't cook in there. Then we've got the archway where the two black doors are open every day because of everything. We had them open anyway, but now they're always open. Then we cook where the green door is. If the back of the shop where there's another window and another side entrance and the front entrance that door is always open, and the back window is open and we cook in the back of that shop by the back window where also the extractor fan is. Then this is a driveway that goes up to their garage. So where they live, we're not cooking there. We're cooking on this wall up that driveway. That's where the cooking and that is where the extractor fan is. You say that there is no cooking facility in the right hand one. We have a kitchen in there, but we don't cook in there. It doesn't work because you would never be able to manage in there. So we cook in the sandwich bar. It's got a washing up facilities in there, a little kitchen there. It has got an extractor in there, but we don't cook in there because it's not big enough, it doesn't work. This is a round table discussion. I'm going to ask Environmental Health. You've heard, Rory, what has been said by the Africans. My understanding was that there isn't an outside chimney stack to take away the smells that are sold internally. Have you been to the site and have you been aware of pungent smells within the premises there? Have you actually been to the house inside the house either? Are you happy with the complainant's house? My colleague Joe Dixon, who is actually on here remotely, is investigating an alleged complaint of ODA at the moment because it is ongoing. I am slightly concerned about how much information we should give. I don't want anything from this to prejudice that investigation. You're happy with that? I wonder if we can't press that one. I think it's probably appropriate not to press in terms of the complaint. However, I think it's fair to expect an answer to the question of have you been to the property? Has there been any smells? Is there a chimney that you're aware of? Back to Environmental Health. You've just heard the legal advice that we've been given. Can you tell us, is there a chimney, an outside chimney, taking smells away or not? I'm happy for us to answer that. If that's the advice, if I can refer to my colleague Joe on the line, she's a case officer for that. You're sounding. Joe mutated herself and mutated herself and remuted herself. That's it. Hello, I can't hear anyone there. Can you hear me? Yes, if that's your joke, we can hear you. Hello. Joe, we've asked a question of your colleague, but he tells us that you're the person who's handling it. We know we don't want to go down a certain route because you're investigating, but can you tell us the following? Have you been on site into the commercial premises and have you also been into the adjoining domestic house? Yes. Regarding the commercial premises and the kitchen, is the extractor fan, has it got an outside chimney that goes with it so that the smells could go up into the atmosphere rather than be retained in the building? Yes, I have been to both the premises and also the Simon's property next door at 36. The extractor fan, it's got a carbon filter, so when we spoke to Luigi, myself and Chloe visited Luigi, and we have asked him to check with the suppliers how often it needs to be changed based on his usage. I'm not sure if Luigi's done that or not. In regards to an outside chimney, I don't actually know. I think it was an internal extractor fan from what I gathered. I don't know if Chloe wants to chip in at all. She was with me. Hi, this is the Chloe Mathildorum Environmental Health Practitioner. I visited with Joe. There was no external and he confirmed that there was no external chimney, so it's all internal. Yes. Thanks very much. So ladies, have I just picked up that what you've said is that on your visits there you have recommended, suggested or told the applicant to make changes to the system that he's got in place at this moment. Is that correct? Well, to check whether or not the extractor fan needs its filters exchanging. I don't know if Luigi's done that yet. It wasn't that long ago. We went to see them. Again, ladies, can you tell me that in situations where you do get these type of complaints about pungent smells or smells in general, would you also consider actually putting an outside chimney on that was high enough to actually get above the rooftop situation and dissipate any smells actually out into the atmosphere? Would you ever do that? Do you want me to go on Joe? Yep, you go for it. It very much depends on the premises and what their load is. It would be something that a larger premises would do, but I actually don't know how many covers they do, that kind of thing. But again, in this situation with COVID, without COVID, we would expect the windows and doors to be closed, which would mitigate the majority of the odour. We have asked him to contact the food team or COVID team to get their advice on that because I don't know where we stand on that. Thank you for that, ladies. I've gone following on from that. The adjoining property is a very old building and not built up to modern-day standards. Would you expect, therefore, that it would be easier to permeate smells through that sort of wall unless the commercial premises are actually put into position some sort of line between, some sort of material between, to stop that happening? Again, it very much depends on the type of business. As far as I can see it's breakfast-type cooking and there are two rooms, I believe, in between the kitchen and the next door dwelling. Rory, do you want to come in on that one? Yes. In terms of, so I can sort of elaborate on that, if I may, I haven't visited the premises, but as I understand it, it doesn't terminate vertically but horizontally out of the building, no flu going up to roof level, as I understand. Normally, if the filtration is good enough, then that could be adequate. There's been mention of carbon filters and if they are changed regularly enough, they can break down the odour molecules sufficiently so you may not need high-level discharge. That remains to be seen. We are dealing with a complaint at the moment. If that was a requirement, we'd deal with that through our statutory nuisance powers. It may be subject to planning permission, but that would be, we will be addressing that and making any requirement irrespective of this application. Thank you, Chair. It's to Rory, first of all, and then it will be Mr Lully. So you just said there that the extractor actually goes to atmosphere, it's just carbon filtered on the way out. So just from listening, as I understand it, because it's not external, you've got sort of the, I think it's the real world it comes out of. Whichever side of the building, it will come out of the building horizontally rather than having a ducting that comes out and takes it up roof level without dispersing. So as long as the filtration is before it comes out of the building, it might provide enough odour reduction at that point. But that's what we're looking at at the moment. Okay, thank you. Mr Lully. What's the diameter of the external, I'll take you, draw a fresh air from outside and then you've done it? No, no. It doesn't send it outside. It filters it through charcoal filter. It sucks it up, goes through two filters, one main filter which catches the grease, and then it goes through charcoal filters. Once it goes through the charcoal filter, it brings it back into the room. It rotates it. But it's absolutely no external. No external, nothing. Okay, right. Obviously the $64,000 question is how often do you change the charcoal filters? The charcoal filters have just changed them. The first set of filters, we've started putting them in our dishwashers every night now, and I've bought the sponge that goes behind it, and I'm changing them once a week. It's brand new. And it's brand new? It's a brand new filter. Yeah, but the charcoal filters are the key bit, the grease is. It's the green bit, they're brand new now, so they'll last me for another two, three months, then I shall buy some more. The output of our cooking, it doesn't warrant to change the filter so often, but the output of our cooking isn't that great, not direct cooking, especially in the evening. It's mostly cold foods, a few burgers and that's it. They're platters. Okay. One of the officers mentioned that they didn't know how many covers you do, what's your capacity for covers? Sit down. It's in the day, not many at all. It's breakfast, we probably do. Bats and baguets. Ten, and we do sausage and bacon baguets to take away, so they're just wrapped up and they go, they come in, collect them and go. Bacon is pre-cooked beforehand, and then when someone orders bacon, it's in the boundary, filled with water, keeps the food hot. Sausage and bacon, we cook in the morning, and then when someone orders it, we just put it on the griddle to give it that extra heat. That brings it back up to temperature and then we'll put it in the baguet and serve it. So that initial cooking is for the first 10, 15 minutes. So perhaps I misled you, but they'll do apologise. So covers are being seated. I know seating. We don't open on a Monday. Tuesday we don't open next door because we're too quiet. Wednesday we probably get four or five customers in there. It doesn't get used very much in the day. In the evening I don't want cover on Friday. We closed Saturday night because we didn't have any customers. Everyone's getting frightened again because of all this new... So your predominant trade then? I could. On a good night, if we were busy, the restaurant itself inside can do 16 covers. So you can... Outside in the garden? Outside you've got four, eight, 12. You've got five tables. 12 covers, 12. You've got three tables of four, one table of two, that's 14, and then you've got the slouch. I'd say 16, 18. It's never been like that otherwise. You've got roughly 18 outside when you say 16 indoors. On a good day, if we have a good day. Just looking at your capacity, not what you do on a good day. So would you say then, given what you've just described or your seated service daily, that your predominant trade is take-away? It's take-away. We wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the take-away. I was going to say, you would have existed on five covers a day. It's cold sandwiches with a sandwich bar, and the other side is just something you've added to try and bring something into the community. One big question from my chair. This is also involved with environmental health at some point, but given the fact there's a complaint that smells into a bedroom in the complainant's house, or the objector's house, is there any part of your building, your two buildings, which are connected at roof level to the objector's house? I.e. do you have a common roof void? I.e. no firewalls in between the different buildings. Old buildings are hideously common for roof void right the way through. The roof itself is open. That's your two properties. The attic roof, yes. We had a roof put in there. The landlord at the last meeting, he has put a he's built a wall up there as well. To stop the sound. To stop the sound. To stop the sound. In that middle archway, the black gates that you see, that's the bit that goes up. We put a ceiling up. It used to be completely open, but we put a ceiling up again to help with that. Can I? Just one of his feet for the first officer. I'm looking at the street scene on the laptop here. So on the left I've got the LJ sandwich bar. Then I've got two black gates, then I've got LJ's bar in Brasil. Then you have what we describe as the next door, the green windows. Base building, green windows. So over the LJ sandwich bar there is a common roof void that goes across the sandwich bar and the black gates. Is that what you just said? Does that connect in any way to the roof void above the bar building? So is there a common roof void from the alleyway on the left-hand side right the way to your neighbour? It's the loft space. Where we've put a false ceiling up is created another void then. So if you were to go up on the edge into the loft by the chimney stack on that alleyway you could walk right the way to the far side. Is there any access into your neighbour's loft space? Is it a solid gable wall or is it tiled down to the valley? I don't know. Simon put his own wall up there so he told me. But my landlord built on top of that. When I last went up there to be an old wardrobe doors, I think Simon stuck him up against the wall, I'm not sure. But my landlord's been up there since and he's at least I'm not in the middle so I can't, he's put something up there just got the smell and the noise. All right, thank you. I'll end it myself. I've been in mind last time I asked a question about smell. You went on for another 20 minutes. I'll ask another question now if you don't mind. Let's talk about noise now. We've heard some recordings from both sides with regards to noise which has gone on. I want to talk about noise and also about what you've done to mitigate any noise which has affected your neighbours. Please. I feel we only listen to a very little bit of the recordings just a bit of it. That if you listen to the recordings one of them particularly is when Luigi was calling me, I was at home on his mobile phone asking me if I wanted to Chinese I don't know if you can recall that. He was on a private conversation standing in the back of the shop at the bar entrance. Now that was so loud that recording it makes me think that the level and also if you hear the car going down that road which is so loud. When we recorded them with that party and the dogs might come in over that was just a recording off of a phone and the level of that wasn't... I'm so sorry I'm going to stop with Chairman's commission I'm going to stop you for setting the screen. Let's just take everything for now as read. Just take that. What I'm going to ask you is and I appreciate it I'm going to talk to you in time to think about it have you done anything to mitigate to reduce the noise that could affect your immediate neighbour because that seems to be an issue and I'm sure you've seen the diary of events and we've had the smell of food and noise with two principles there were other issues but there were two principles. We have got signs outside telling the customers we've got six signs outside telling the customers to be mindful of the neighbors keeping noise down but we can't always be outside to monitor the customers every now and then someone will laugh someone will talk it's human nature we can't control how people will speak when we act outside conversations get loud get high we wouldn't let anything go out we've never let anything go out we've been open nine years and since we've opened the bar this is when all the noise we've had people sitting outside before this bar was open in the courtyard there was people out there long before sitting out their bill was eating, drinking but not drinking but drinking tea well before we've opened the bar up so I don't understand where all this noise has come from and it's not no noise yet than when it was when we first opened up Can I just say that or can I ask the question of you do I recall that probably before just before you it was a tea room cafe wasn't it? it's been a coffee shop three times and it's been an Italian pizzeria once and to my knowledge none of them have never had a complaint yes but they were running a different type of business and they were open until 11 o'clock at night were they? they were the Italian pizzeria was open until 11 o'clock at night Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday okay well I need to I'll come back to you in a minute just I need to like my colleagues talk about your understanding of your neighbour's difficulties because there is a very comprehensive record here that your neighbouring property has taken about what they find so difficult to live with which is about smells and noise which both my colleagues and myself have been asking you questions about so it's very serious the amount of reporting that has been done there so I'm going to ask Aaron if you could please find us the picture which I think is the zoom one of the back of the property actually showing the courtyard area it was one that when we were looking at the audio listening to the audio it's one that we asked the offices to pull up for us then to see the size of the courtyard that you've got there and it's location wise to the next property so if we can just are you okay? there we are so seems to be so this is a question first of all seems to be a very small crowded area and can you tell us if we were to judge looking at the bottom table the white circular top table there how much further on does the premises go do you see the end of the gazebo on the right hand side there's a chair there that's the back door back entrance to the bar and then just to the right of that is the entrance to the sandwich bar and at the bottom here that's it there's a barrier there so would you agree with me that it's actually in reality a very small area very close up to a neighbouring property where you're actually getting in quite a lot of people where that brick pillar is on the left to foot away from that is where the camera is where it picked up me talking to Jill on the phone from where the back door is of the sandwich bar and that is about we've got a photograph of that it's about 14 foot 15 foot away and that's quite a distance for a microphone on the camera to pick up and then you've got the size of the shop and then you've got the main road and you can hear the traffic going past quite loud so I'm assuming that the volume on that camera has been put up to pick up any noise that's going on around the backyard it's magnified it's magnified the voice I think there's also an argument that you have agreed that that is the full extent of the area of the courtyard it looks smaller on the picture but when I was talking to Jill I wasn't shouting down the phone talking about a Chinese picking up a Chinese like I'm talking to you now but will you agree with me it's a small area where you have the potential of having quite a lot of people in a very small area which is very close to an external area we can't have a lot of people at the moment due to the distancing so if you see those tables if a couple come in and they sit at that table of four we can't have anyone else on that table the same as the other seating and we don't ask people to get up and leave so if they come in but that's only at this moment in time you still have the potential that once restrictions hopefully change you will have the that's why we've suggested half nine that we go inside if that would help and that would make matters better for them if we and then a lot of people then will probably get up and leave to be honest if they have to move inside after half nine or seriously have you taken the complaints because can you tell me what mitigation given that there are serious complaints not just by one neighbour but by other people and that it's you know it required us to have this hearing this afternoon because people aren't happy about it what attempts have you made to mitigate the smells given that clearly or it seems to be apparent that there is every possibility that the smells from your cooking in the left hand building goes through that roof space and get into that next door old property with maybe not very solid walls what attempts have you made seeing that you know your neighbours aren't happy what attempts have you made to get the smell sorted out have you in fact considered and I know you Mr has just said that he's just changed the charcoal but how often did you do it before it's a brand new filter report since their complaints we were paying £2,500 on a brand new extractor fan to go in there that the environmental people have been round and checked they've been round to us several times I do a deep clean every Sunday morning and we do a bit if we hear race noises we ask people to keep it down and we have got the signage up I don't really think it's that sort of environment to be honest but you may not however your neighbours do but do you see that building on the left where the lights coming off of that used to be a bakehouse they bought that house in 2000 2000 and that was still a bakehouse when we moved in top and they never moaned and complained about the smells they were cooking 24 hours a day in that building and that's right in their garden there's just concentrate on your start just one second can I just on page 25 I'm using there which I believe to be the if you have this you have a copy let's have a look on page 25 we've got a plan there of it all we can see on page 25 the plan which is part of the fire risk assessment that was done okay we'll be looking at that and that then we'll relate into that picture as well let's do that but concentrate on your building sorry chairman I just wanted to come in there just to bring that in yes just to go back again so you say that you've put this new system in however it's all being checked by environmental health and if it would be necessary would you be able to would you be willing to put a different or an extended system in place there to take any smells up above and away from the buildings maybe environmental health can help me and clarify for myself and my colleagues whether that is something that you might be considering so I'll ask environmental health and I'll come back can I just you mentioned the point about the roof space can I answer that query as well just want to clarify you said that you've five star rating for food hygiene so and you're in the kitchen area where you said that it doesn't exhaust out to the external area but it recycles back into the kitchen so I would find it very difficult to consider that you'd have a ceiling that is not sealed if they've got five stars because one of the considerations for food inspections is structural integrity and things like that if you've got falling elements that can fall into food that would be brought into question and it's unlikely that you've achieved the highest rating so for odours to permeate from the kitchen through that roof space into the neighbouring properties would be quite difficult in my opinion I think it's more likely that if there was a window open or a door and it's exhausting out that way after being recycled back into the kitchen and then any wind picking up that's likely I would need to clarify with Joe as to or indeed the residents as to where they're experiencing the odour that that might be something essay we've got indulgence chairman I have got my tablet and you have indeed got a five star rating and confidence management very good food hygiene safety very good safety structure compliance good so just to back up what you said that's very useful noise and I shall actually bring in the complainants as well because we need to hear from them what their experiences are as against your explanations but regarding noise again given the fact that there is a lot of complaints about noise coming from the premises I'm a little surprised that you're saying you can't stop it because obviously you've got a very close small area there and if you excuse me one minute if you are aware that your neighbours are upset and complaining about noise I would have thought it was very much upon you to if you feel that the noise levels are rising either in the building or outside that you would have thought it absolutely important and imperative that you knowing that there's complaints of this nature that you would actually make sure that you say to your to your clients that you're being too noisy and hold it down we do do our absolute best if there is but to whenever I'm working I don't work every weekend but when I do work I just feel it's normal talk like any restaurant the complaint is one complaining that we have all the houses at the other side have never ever complained about noise not one of them you know it is how many people are actually complaining about noise in the whole of the high street we've got a lot of letters that people live in the high street that want us to get these extended hours that do not find us a nuisance of any sort again I'll go back it is one household that are complaining about the noise I have to say others are just as close it's not the the quantity it's the quality of the concerns that people have got and though I've read some of the supporting letters one could say well a lot of those people live nowhere near it at all but they're saying please give it every help so I think councillor would like to speak again thank you chair I'm going to go through you and ask I'm legal if I should be declaring an interest now because as you know I'm a director of Melbourne hub which is a licensed restaurant and so some of my questions are going to be based around what my knowledge of this industry is so if you would require I declare an interest it would be non peculiar I would imagine yes councillor it's certainly of benefit to declare rather than declare but as you say it's based around knowledge of the industry and not in relation to specific matters in that case chair I declare an interest I believe it to be non peculiarity but given my experience it's noted councillors and I think actually given your experience it may be very helpful thank you it's actually a two-pronged question it's one to Rory it's one to Mr Manny thank you councillor the building that I run has high level intake and exhaust when the entire system is is completely sealed and there are no cooking smells at all in the building everything is of ridge height so it comes out into the atmosphere as the chair was indicating earlier there's also the balance of intake and exhaust fans and what have you that actually help with that process so Rory you'll understand that all too well I'm sure the reason I asked about the common roof void is because any kind of smells that do permeate into a building will gradually permeate that building and then exude if you like continuously and we found that in the building that I managed if we had the fans shut down completely it goes everywhere so with one window open you can draw it right away through so my question would be on along the same lines as the chairmen's which was can the system that you just recently installed be adapted to have an external exhaust it takes its internal air from the building so it draws everything from the building and then takes it to the outside and then perhaps notice there's an existing flu on the side of your building where you're cooking so it would be above that I'm assuming fireplace or flue or whatever that you could run that through if that was the case but it was just that was a question to you and would that be something the environmental health would support because I understand the complainants issues and when you look at all of the up to page 64 and beyond I think it is overwhelmingly it is a complaint about the food smell noise figures way down the charts food smells bacon spicy pungent food smell so there is a constant irritation shall we say with a food smell so that would be my question to Rory first of all and then obviously to Mr Nani for any confirmation thank you thank you councillor so your point about the roof space I fully agree it's not beyond the realms of possibility as a sort of in case I didn't clarify enough I think it would be more likely that it would exhaust out of a window or an opening in terms of the applicants looking to improve their extraction system for example they exhaust it externally and use high level of discharge for adapting additional ventilation we would of course recommend that we would recommend that to any business because you are just improving it reducing the likelihood of odour dispersal and causing nuisance to neighbours that's something that we would if we had complaints we would encourage to be upgraded or if it's subject to a notice an abatement notice for odour at the moment we are investigating it but we haven't got to that point at the moment another point I just wanted is well there's been a lot of concern about odour and I don't know a lot of the history on the complaints but depending on what the planning permission allows and I'll call these to the left if they can correct me if I'm wrong but odour is a consideration of public nuisance but the application is for the extension of the supply of alcohol so in theory if this application were to be withdrawn that cooking could take place up until I believe it's 11 o'clock when late night refreshment is a licence of activity so I'm just concerned about how much regard is being given if it's not really part of the application so we do look at all of the licensing objectives which do include the prevention of public nuisance Kisilani you've heard this question and you just said what environmental health say what do you say about improving what you've got well I thought we did improve what we had from what we had for the last eight years which was a derelict extract the fan which was producing a lot more smell than what it did now we've upgraded it all from what was there to what we've got now our output of cooking isn't that much to want us to put a chimney outside and then I don't think it will stop there I think they will still complain about the chimney going outside as well it won't be unsightly okay okay well I'm going to bring in and please don't think neighbouring properties that we've been ignoring we just really needed to get down to some details with the applicant because this is a round table discussion and we'd like to bring you in now if you would because you've heard the arguments that we've been asking questions we've been asking and the replies from the applicant you're in this next door property it's an old building can you I mean there's 16 pages of the information that you recorded I'm sure you've been told to do that and obviously there is a great deal of comment in there well not comment it's actual recording of what you say has been happening and as my colleagues have said a lot of it is to do with the smell but there is also the your concerns about the the noise and the noise levels so could you perhaps lay out to myself my colleagues first of all the business about smells where do you think or how do you think the smells that you have recorded how have they got into your property because given the fact that the applicant says it's a building it's the far side left hand side building that has the cooking can you summarise for us what has been happening what you've been experiencing and why and how you think that it permeates into your building please can you come a little bit louder the roof space between the two buildings the left hand side where the cooking is done and the right hand side where the raspberry is was open up into the roof void yes they have covered the first half of that but the back end of it is still open and the ladder allows you to get up and use storage up in that space you then have the Wathlund door wall of our bedroom which obviously will have gaps and stuff will permeate through that when we originally moved in I went up there and I put insulation and bore as Louie described for the purposes of keeping it wall because it was a cold space never had to think about smells and I don't know why back into early 2000s we didn't have problems of smells something may have been happening that was different but it wasn't a concern so there was no vape about it it was just about that sort of thermal aspects when it all changed as Louie said was when they wanted to open up what was the butchers before in order to serve this type of food and that's when we started to get smells coming through and I don't know what actually changed to make that happen but we then got smells coming through and that's really what we've been recording we mentioned that to the landlord he talked about doing lots of grand things to put up a separate wall to put vapour barriers in there and we thought yeah okay problems gone away because Louie said talk to the landlord we then waited for him to do something and in the end he didn't do the things he talked about what he did is he took down all the things I took put there and he got a tin of spray and he sprayed foam in between the different rafters that had been screwed on to the back of the water door frame we've never been allowed up there in order to do any more there is certainly from what I was told by the landlord no vapour barrier and therefore however the smells are getting in there they're getting in there and we believe they're coming through the wall because we've got a problem membrane for the roof as well we've we've got this complaint going on and whilst you can't talk about it it will demonstrate that there are smells that are consistently getting in our bedroom and I know we can't talk about it but it will demonstrate it so that the smells are real the noise which I know you haven't asked can I just stop you at that for a second just at the smells do you think that's where it's it's coming it's coming through that root space this is what you're assuming and I don't know how the ventilation system is doing and what it's dragging and dropping to but you've got a number of things going on that were different you've got the cooking of the food that goes in one space you've got the movement of the food from one space to another space and then you've got the roof of the restaurant where they're eating the food and that roof has never been insulated and therefore and there's an extractor fan that used to be in the middle for air conditioning that was just removed and packed in some way so I think that the smells could be coming either from the cooking or it could be coming from the carrying of the food or being on the table but we're getting food smells coming into that wall and I think it can only be coming through our Rotten and Dore wall which has not got a vapour barrier and are the smells worse I mean there's a lot of talking about would you say that the smells are worse in the bedrooms rather than downstairs in your property primarily the bedroom but when it gets really bad not only the bedroom is full of odour but you can walk up the stairs and if you get half way up the stairs it hits you Okay so not so bad on the ground but as you go higher up into the next second floor you're getting the smells which would seem to indicate it's from the roof space coming down To be clear it depends how you define a roof is the two roofs as you will see from your photographs the actual roofs are separate but the space on the first floor above where the black gates are is a loft space and that is where the main communication is and that I believe is where the odours can just permeate through I think that whole space is filling with fumes and then gradually just offloading into our property through the bedroom whether we have our windows shut I'll come back to you and we'll come back to you to talk about the noise but I think Miss Jackson wants to just join in at this point but we'll then come back to you and ask you about the noise situation Thank you very much chair I just want to reiterate the point here that we are dealing with a licensing application clearly the odours from the cooking smells are clearly a great concern for the local residents as you've heard this afternoon we've got to be mindful of that this is an application we did before the sale of alcohol on and off the premises takeaway alcohol and obviously quite right on property you could trade 7-11 for example that need for any licence from the local authority then it would fall to Rory's team to look at any such nuisance with regard to the odours and pollution etc so we've got to be mindful of the fact that we suspect that we are looking at the licensing act application question here today chair which is looking at the public nuisance aspect caused by the retail sale of alcohol not the operation of the premises as a sandwich bar, bistro etc Thank you Can I just confirm please Ms Jackson Chair could I perhaps just seek clarification Can I just confirm please Ms Jackson in relation to extending the licensing hours I'm correct in thinking that food can only be served during those hours Just confirm chair if I may the sale of hot food and drink is only a licence for activity between the hours of 11pm and 6am so it's out of the hours that we requested or considered this afternoon Can I respond please I'd like to respond to what's been said I'm reading from the notes from previous meeting that we went to in 2019 and in your notes it says legislation guidance members should also be aware of the guidance under section 182 of the licensing act 2003 The prevention of public nuisance could therefore include low level nuisance perhaps affecting a few people living locally a reduction of their living making a gap there and then it talks about reduction of their living and working community and environment of interesting parties in the vicinity so it's not only about when alcohols being drunk in my opinion judging by these legal notes Very much for that Councillor Thank you It was a kind of a chance to answer a question to Rachel from the licensing The reason for the going on about the foods notes and what I have here is that the applicant has quite clearly said that the bulk of their trade seems to be take away and with the introduction of the alcohol licence going further I am partial to a bag of chips with a pint or a drink as I go through the evening so my thoughts on that process will be that there is the ability to extend the cooking if you like through that process so if there is an issue with food smells I would really want to get those cleared up so that that nuisance wouldn't be continued further into the evening so that was where I was driving Is it okay just to put in we don't do take away when we shut up there is no more take away it is purely sit down restaurant food with a drink there is no take away the evening we don't do that anymore because it didn't work You missed my point it wasn't the fact you said clearly earlier that your bulk of your trade was take away and then you do the sit down that's fine if there is an introduction of a longer period to drink then the chances are that the food delivery will also go up within the premises so therefore more cooking so that's why I was searching a way out of the smell You would probably do last because people don't eat too late when they sit down I am going back to environmental health I haven't heard what's just been said and then I'm going to go back to the neighbors again so Rory Thank you, I've heard what the resident has said about what the guidance says in terms of low level nuisance and sort of further to what Rachel had said if this application were to be withdrawn or refused in its entirety is there anything to prohibit that business from cooking food until 11 o'clock without having a licence for it so everything that is is if they're planning permission if there is a restriction on that and that's the emphasis if this application didn't exist they wouldn't have any prohibition on that and I think that's important to be mindful of Thank you Chairman I wish to ask Mr I think it's a big question you're not only an obligation to answer these questions by the way you are I just want your opinion on the question there With regards to the prevention of public nuisance what do you feel as being the neighbour would be the biggest problem if this licence was to be given with regards to the increase of hours on your lives and on your lives Thank you It's noise first and then smell I'm so sorry Sir Could you just come a little bit closer to the mic It's primarily noise and then it is smell Sorry to interrupt Just bear in mind what we said about smell Could you concentrate on your answer on the noise please It's on noise and the problem has only arisen once they've started to use the courtyard in the evening and the restaurant in the evenings where we get the noise coming through both in the bedroom and the problems of it going on later and later is the noise that actually is a continuous noise with music coming through and voices which get louder and louder as more people are eating and drinking having a good time that is a prevention on sleep and it's just depressing because it goes on and goes on all the time outside in the courtyard you've seen the small space it's been very very popular we have a garden and we use or used to use our garden and we can't avoid the noise coming through into our garden to the point where we can't sit in our garden and relax in there because we've got neighbours who are having a party every night every Friday and Saturday night through the summer it happens and they consistently do it until past 9.30 and 10 o'clock and whilst we don't listen to any recordings that are made we've waited for some event which was either a burglary or it was this and therefore I went searching for recordings and I was pleased to actually find recordings that demonstrated that they haven't stopped the noise they've actually included themselves within discussions in there as well so if this extension went further they would get worse it would continue and it just has to stop because we can't use our gardens we can't sleep in the afternoon the noise goes on during the day even when the shop is shut it goes on the noise comes into the street it comes into the garden you can't relax so its noise is the number one but of course the day this goes to the more it becomes a concern because during the day we're busy perhaps we're happy to be a bit more tolerant or more tolerant but if you want to go to bed or if you want to settle quietly and watch a television programme and you're struggling because of the noise that is a real problem and if that now goes to regularly potentially every day to way beyond when we choose to stay up that's going to be a huge problem for our quality of life and sleep we've got early morning deliveries I got woke up at 6am this morning by their bread delivery and if we're now talking about 11 o'clock at night it's too much it's very stressful and it's really impacting on our lives in this house so what you're saying is that to change every single day of the week to what would be in reality 11pm closure that's if it was 100% perfectly executed and we know that it has not been up till now when we've said anything about it it's just been ignored and say take it up with council this only started when they started to use that space we have got on fine with them until that point it was just about them using this space and the only time when there was a planning permission to actually use this space for this type of purpose there were conditions that said there had to be design around noise and smells before work was done that application lapsed the conditions what they pursued but they've actually started to use that space and the building it was never designed for this purpose and now we're suffering so what you're saying is it all exacerbated or it became a problem once the courtyard was used and do you you've heard what the talk has been the negotiation has been regarding the courtyard time of clearing that courtyard at 9.30 what do you feel about that we can't relax in our garden already at the weekend you put yourselves in our situation where you used to be able to sit in the garden have friends around or just sit there and relax we cannot because this is going on you have got neighbours that are having a party as far as we're concerned I know it's not a party I know they're not talking particularly loud but we're so close we get that noise every weekend and because of the whole attitude of Louis and Jill in terms of our complaints it makes us angry it makes us sad to the point where we've lived in this house for 20 years and we feel like moving and I've spent a fortune I know Louis said it's all about money but it's about quality of life to be honest I don't want to ask you a leading question but I'm not quite sure if I've had my the last one answered what has been put forward is a 9.30 close off of that courtyard it doesn't change a thing it doesn't change the fact that 9 o'clock 8 o'clock is still ruining our lives in our garden it shouldn't happen they're full stop I just wanted to clarify on that point because that original point is actually wrong so what environmental health have requested is the following so alcohol shall only be permitted in the external areas of the premises until 9 p.m. Sunday to Thursday but until 10.30 p.m. Fridays and Saturdays Bank holidays and Valentine's Day Thank you very much for that sorry I didn't pick up on I couldn't understand Aaron's messages to me ok so are we all clear about that now what the what the timetable is that was just explaining again the times to the neighbours have you got any further input that you'd like to give us anything that you feel that we haven't covered enough that you haven't been asked about or would like to talk about at this stage I'd like to say that it just seems a bit crazy to be insisting upon extra days when there are so many days of their existing permissions that they seem to be closed for that was one point you know why do you need extra hours if people aren't coming the second point was there was quite a lot of discussion about bin and rodents and it's been a problem for a long time and by the look of things there's actually a new lid gone on the wheelie bin but it doesn't fit the wheelie bin so there is still a gap so the problem with rodents is not about putting lots of poison down, poisoning all the local wildlife it's about having a lid that fits to the bin and not having a bin so it's about flowing the bottom bin there's a south cam's bins we need to see how they're fitting but can we I'm going to ask I'm going to ask the applicant the same question in a second obviously this concern has been going on for a while and we've got lots of pages of the information that you've put down of your experiences and did you say that did I hear correctly that you said that when you had tried to talk to the applicant about your concerns and your problems that you didn't get a very good reply but how has the applicant at any time come in to see you and sit down and see if there's something that they could actually do to fix it so that your problems are resolved and their commercial business continues we had a discussion following three years again when we had this review that things would be done we sat down with them within weeks we talked about what needed to be done it was going to be delayed for six months because they couldn't afford and when we got round to six months and we asked they said well there is no problem go away and it's been sort of difficult and it's sad because we used to get on fine and it's just this thing and I feel slightly sorry for them because they're using a space that really they shouldn't be using it's not appropriate and all the problems we have are because the space isn't right for what they're trying to do and it is we can't go on with this any longer and then the extension just makes it worse and so we have a complaint because we can't go on with it any longer I mean we were quite conciliatory last time I believe you chaired the session last time of Councillor Roberts and I remember your closing remarks and the hopes and expectations that were set at that point and I now compare them to our experiences since and I'm afraid what happened was very different to what was outlined in the meeting and we're just completely unhappy about it and we now don't have faith that something will happen that even if it said that something would happen it would happen because it hasn't happened in the three years and our main bedroom isn't used now for sleeping in because it's so unpleasant Mr Lani and then I shall make a comment the same question to you given the fact that these are closed neighbours and one tries to get on with one's neighbours and given the very clear concerns of the neighbours what have you attempted to do regarding hands across the water with your neighbours to get this resolved because I would have thought for you you wouldn't have wanted a necessary aggravation we do try to get on with them but they can it's just we do our best in the beginning we sat down we tried to do everything we could for them and we're not builders or anything like that our landlord is so we passed it on to him he's a builder he's a well-known builder in the village so we passed it on to him and he dealt with the wall that they wanted that was not anything to do with us we'll make sandwiches for anything we tried to talk to him etc but constantly complaining so in the end we can't let's call in the experts and whatever they find if we're not clean enough we're not covid friendly enough whatever, we'll work with them and that's what we're prepared to do but the last time we spoke to Simon was that we had a problem with them having a party in their garden and dogs might have got thrown over the wall and we lost a whole table we didn't call the police a customer wanted to we spoke to Simon and he said he would deal with it he said he would deal with it they never sent their son around to apologise to us do you know how that made us feel how uncomfortable so after that we decided we don't want to make big talk we say good morning our nod or whatever and I think it's best it's left like that I felt very upset by that you imagine trying to explain to one of your customers they're making us sell them dogs might come over the wall because that's the way their son thinks about us it was very upsetting and I don't choose to speak to them anymore I'm sorry I will speak to the environmental people I will speak to the noise you can put monitors in we will work with you as best as we possibly can to rectify this problem but there's only so far I'm making us sell them they're having a very upset I think I do have to respond on behalf of what's been there I don't think this is now adding to the debate but I would say that I do remember that at the previous discussion though obviously I do come to it fresh that there was talk at the end that we did expect that things would be put into place and I to avoid just the sort of situation that we've got but you're saying that really your landlord hasn't gone along with that but you know is it not upon you to have actually explained to your landlord that this is causing you a lot of aggravation and it's up to your landlord to get it done he did as far as he's concerned he has done what needed to be done and that's where we it was left with us that he had gone up there clearly not worked has it we do not have any old music every Friday and Saturday night all through the night we have background music my music system consists of an iPhone I'm going to take advice from the officers the legal officers and the licensing officers here if we were to if we were to defer any first of all defer any decision on this until until the outstanding concerns have been actually looked into and rectified can we do that first of all chair you're here to determine that this application based on the facts put before you so pending of course of the legal advice my response would be in this application today your options are as Brooke had in the introduction you can grant, refuse or grant with conditions but you have to make a decision based on that information that answers my question I think unless legal would want to yes chair just to reiterate what Mr Jackson said she's correct in that there are investigations ongoing as Mr Cosworth has mentioned but and I'm not certain for a moment saying that I've made up my mind at all on this at the moment but we could as you say implement the sort of conditions chair absolutely right you have the right as a committee today to put any conditions which would support or promote the licensing objectives and that's quite right and of course pending any future investigation environmental health any responsible authority or any specific party could of course apply for review of the premises license if that was deemed appropriate the last set of conditions were ignored well your comments have been noted I can assure you on that one so if we were and I'm absolutely not saying that this is what we're going to do but if we were to support it today I think that any conditions would have to be extremely taken seriously so any further questions from my colleagues any further input from officers that they think that we haven't covered and your other colleagues Rory are they happy? nothing further to add thank you okay and legal nothing further to add nothing further chair covered everything in so far as the objectives that we need to consider information and the possibility of the matter being brought back for further review hearings in the future if required and I'm not asking either party to go over what they've already said but if there are any points that they would like to finalise their debate with I'm quite happy to look at them now yourselves sorry chair just for procedurally if I may the applicant should have the final opportunity okay so we'll go to the neighbours first is there anything that the neighbours feel that haven't been covered up to date that you would like to add at this last moment before we go as a final round to the applicant I understand Lou and Jill wanting to make some money and be successful but not because things are done in the wrong place and it impacts other people to their detriment and it can't always be about approve approve approve something has to be protected and looked after and we need protecting on this respect thank you very much yourselves I do feel that we desperately do need these extra hours on Friday on Saturday night to make the business work we've already lost three shops in the village in the last two years and it'll be a shame to lose another one we've been there 10 years now and it could get into that point but without these hours sadly I don't think the thing is it'll always be a commercial building if it's not us it'll be someone else there'll just be one after the other even if it was a shoe shop there'll be moaning about the smell of the leather the smell of the leather you know sorry it is what it is sorry I've got to say this it's A3A5 the whole premise was about being able to serve sorry chair I think this isn't really appropriate at this point actually I think we need to tell Mr Barthie that his representations have ended at this point the discussion is now closed we will ask the two parties now to leave the meeting either physically or by the video and we will then the three members who make the final decision will go into closed session with help and support of the lead officer and admin and will you be wanting to stay for the decision because if you need to be away you know you're quite free to do so and then we will inform you about the result what are you going to do yeah we'll get off if that's okay somebody give us a phone call or something okay well that will happen as soon as we finish we will contact you I have to say this because you're not staying however if the decision that we make yes or no is not to your liking you have the right of appeal to the magistrates court which has to be done within 21 days from today but you have that right to go elsewhere so thank you both sides of the appeal for your attendance today which is appreciated and for the information that you've given us which will now be very carefully scrutinised and considered by myself and my colleagues thank you all very much thank you