 So, Odette Hamilton is one of the two Jamaican referees who have been selected by FIFA to officiate at this summer's Olympic Games. Hamilton is slated to serve as one of six support referees at the Games. We're joined in studio by the lady herself, Odette. Welcome to the Sportsmax. And I'm so happy that you could actually make it to the studio. Alright, so I'll start my aspect of the interview because I was so excited to talk to you about just, you know, what this opportunity means for you. I know you've, of course, refereed at many big, big matches before, and that's very impressive. But heading to the Olympic Games, what does that mean for you? You know, this opportunity is one in a million, you know, because with the World Cup just concluded and I wasn't there, so I see this as a next stepping stone towards the World Cup. So it's a big opportunity for me and I am going there to do my best to make my country proud, my family proud, and just accept whatever they have offered for me. Yeah, a Jamaican officiating at, of course, a big, big stage like the Olympics. And just so you know, the Olympics will be live on your home of champions. We have the Olympics, so you know, your family, your friends, everybody can tune in. But that aside, you know, when did you decide that you wanted to become a referee? Like, did you always know that you wanted to, like, how, what's your story? No, you know, I never decided that I wanted to become a referee. Um, in high school, I was very active. You know, I play netball, I play football, I participate in cricket. So I was overall an athlete in sport. Okay, right. So I was playing football and then I was getting a lot of injuries because I was kind of rough sometimes. So I was like, how can I give back to the sport? You know, and I normally just observe the referees on the field of play. And I started to ask questions about it. And they started to say, you know, it's a good thing to transition because this make you get less injured, allow you to travel the world to explore and meet new people and the culture. So I was like, you know, this seems like something that I really wanted to do. So that is how I just started to ask questions, get information, and then here I am now. But was it a tough journey because I mean, I can go on the field and ask questions. I don't see anybody bringing me on as a referee. So was it like a tough journey to get in? Yes, it is a very tough journey, especially for training. You know, you have to train in the rain, you have to train in the sun, you have to do much in the rain, you have to do much in the sun. So it's a mental thing. You have to be strong. You know, sometimes you have to be self-motivated also because you don't have the crowd or the company to train with you to give you that motivation. So you have to be strong mentally to know that, hey, I have to train by myself because I know my goals and where I want to reach and what I want to achieve. So it's mostly self-motivation. You've officiated at Men's Game. You said about being strong just now. I had parchment on this show last week we had Imlan's and one of the questions I asked him is the fact that the referee is sometimes forgotten to be the person that of course makes the game a better place. Most times people see the refs as the enemies of the game. How do you deal with that? You know, it's a tough challenge, you know, especially for me being a woman in a men's world. After so many years in football, I earn my respect by doing what is correct on the field of play. So when I just started out, I was like a book referee. Like anything the books say, that is what I am going to do. So that is how I earn my respect. Know that I'm senior doing so many games in the Premier League and so forth. I know how to take the book and kind of tweak it sometimes just to have the game under control. So that is how I earn my respect coming up. If it's yellow or yellow, if it's red red, but no, you have the understanding of oh and the football understanding of what it is or what it is like. So something that is clear-cut yellow, you know, for game management, you may say, hey, you have another chance, keep it simple, you know, move on. The next one, then it's good. So those are the things that I used to be the person that I am today to be strong in the men's game. Can you take us a little bit more specifically through the growth that you've gone through? Because we know how men are. A man is playing a football match and not accustomed to having a woman being the referee. So in the initial stages when you were a referee, I suspect that it was more difficult for you at the start than it is now when, as you just say, you have earned your respect. Can you talk to us about those early years when you had to earn the respect? Because initially it wouldn't come because unfortunately the gender bias would suggest that a male footballer feels that you shouldn't be refereeing a game with them. So I started out because I grew up like a little town boy. So I was always in the men's company. So I know how the men would react or how they would treat women on a level. So that is how I started out. And back in training, you know, I trained with the men because they were less females at that time. So I get the feeling and the understanding and they always given me the motivation to say, hey, you're a female, you're going to do the men's game. It's going to be tough. But don't listen to what they have to say. Just go out and do what you need to do. You know, and I have the support from my family also to say, hey, you are strong in whatever you do and anything I put my mind to, that is what I'm going to do. So I'm very strong in that mentality going forward. Yeah, I've said on this show many times that I couldn't be a referee because the abuse that you referees go through, I know personally I couldn't take it because I would think that I don't deserve this. So it is not something I would do. How do you cope with it? Because the abuse is sometimes horrific. Well, for my motivation, I use the crowd as my motivation. So anything they want to say from the stand about derogative things about me and as a female and what I don't do or what I never seen, books are here about. You know, I use that as a motivation to push myself because football is not just in Jamaica for me. It's overseas. You know, so I use Jamaica to be strong mentally for what I am going to get overseas. So having the crowd, it's good for me, you know, to get the feedback from them rather than having a crowd that just sits there. It allows you to have no hope in mind for the outside world. So I use that as my motivation to stay strong and be the best that I can be. Can I take you back to the 2019 Premier League final in Jamaica where Portmore played Waterhouse. It was a high-tempered game. There was a break in the play because missiles were thrown on the field. You issued red cards to Damian Williams and Rafiq Thomas who broke out into a fight there. That was a tough match for you, obviously. And it was the final and there was a lot of tension going into the game because the year before that, the two same teams had played in the final and Portmore had won on penalties. So you go into that a match like that, knowing the intensity and that there would be a lot of energy, probably negative, coming from the players. Do you approach a game like that differently from a normal game? Yes, you have to. You have to study the teams, know their background, know what they entails because, as I stated before, they went to the finals before. So we knew all of that going into the game that we had. We know how to stay strong as a female in the middle of a men's final. You know, normally they would say we don't want a female because you're not ready and, you know, whatever they want to say. So in that particular game, I had mentors having Zoom meetings, having a speak, going through whatever we need to do to control the game to ensure that it ends without anybody has nothing to say. That was histromaking, wasn't it? I think there was a first, primarily final that we had seen of. Appreciated by a female. Yes. Appreciated by a female. And you said you had mentors and so on preparing for the game. Can you talk a little bit more about what that was like? So basically, like the team of officials, we were in a room seated. We watched video clips from the last game, or games that they have played throughout the season. We would so know what to expect from certain players, like problematic players, who to talk to when you have a problem in the game, who you can relate to, you know, one-on-one, or who do I trust while coming up throughout the league, you know? So that is the things that we go through when they say the law can be bent to support whatever decision you have to make. So if you need to bend the law to control the game, and once it can be supported, then we will work with that. So that is how we sit down and analyze the teams and know what we were going into. I want to ask you about the stage that has been set for women officiating in men's game, because Stephanie, for part, the French referee created history by becoming the first female to referee a men's World Cup game. But she went through the ranks, she refereed club games in France, was the first female to referee a Champions League game. How much would you look at her as inspiration? Because you use the term yourself, but she has earned her respect as well. I look up to her, you know, women always want to do what the men do. So we always try to be the best that we can be to make a competition. Women always want to do what the men do. I mean, I sit on the show, right? Every day. So you know, we always try to be the best, or to be in the category that the men are, so we can better ourselves in whatever we are doing. Right? So I always compete with Daniel and Oshane and Okito. They are my top men, because they are officiating in the World Cup in top levels. So I always try to compete with them in training, you know, like to get referee of the year, I always try to compete in that category also as a female. So I take all my games seriously to know that, hey, this game, I must score this, I must score this to stay consistent so I can be the referee of the year. So that is my motivation in Jamaica with the men. So you know, to rub shoulder with them and to be the female referee of the year over the guys, it speaks a lot and to know that I'm doing something, you know. You are a very, very good referee. I must say that from the first times that I saw you referee in games in Premier League football, I thought your authority was solid and your confidence level, because I think that is very important as well. You're doing a job like that, you have to be confident, because if you aren't confident, the players will feed off your lack of confidence and then try to be abusive and so on. But comment for me on something you said earlier on about training and so on, because I don't think the average football fan recognizes how much, how important it is for the referees to be at a certain fitness level, especially to be a FIFA referee. You have to attain a certain fitness level to retain your FIFA badge. If you fail fitness tests, you lose your badge. How hard is training and how difficult or how regular do you have to train to keep yourself at this fitness level? All right, training is like six days a week. Wow. You get only one rest day, or it depends on your schedule. So we know that Premier League players on Sunday or Saturday, then we train right throughout the week and have a match prep day before. Wow. So it's like we get no rest. It's like an athlete. Yeah, no rest. Yes. No rest. Until the season end, then that is when you can say, who I have a rest. But when the season end, then it's time for international travel. So basically your work right throughout the year without rest. So you have to be taking your vitamins. You have to be mentally strong and prepared and take good care of yourself for training. Yeah, what does training involve though? Because, okay, I can guess what a footballer does. We know what cricketers do. What do referees do? You know, referees do a lot. So we have a day like this day is for low intensity. Then the next day we have medium intensity. Then the next day we have high intensity. Then we go back to some strength and coordination. Then the next day match prep. And then we have a game. And the cycle continues. So each and every day we have to work on something different to maintain our physical fitness. What about mental fitness? Because Lance asked about the abuse and everything. Are there like days where you sit with somebody, a psychologist, to talk about it? Yes, or at our friend Cardella Samwells ensured that we have meeting with a psychologist. So we can remain focused and keep motivated going forward. So sometime we have a one-on-one session. With the psychologist. Or we have it in a group just to see what everybody has and where our mindsets are. So that keep us or keep me going forward. Because sometime it's really stressing, it's really tiring. And we wake up and I was like, well, I can't train this morning. But when I think about the outside world, and then you have to fitness test to do, you have to be like, hey, you got to go get up and do it. So it's like a job. It's like a job. So nine to five, you got to get up, you got to do it. So no time to rest. Yeah, I want you to talk quickly about, you mentioned earlier on about growing up and being a tomboy and playing sports with the boys and so on. But in college at the GC Foster College, you actually played volleyball. I didn't hear you mention volleyball. So it seems as if you took up volleyball later in life. Yes, because at my high school, they didn't offer it. So when I went to college and I started to do my degree and I went to the classes, I was like, hey, you know, this is an export, I want to try. And that is how I get involved in playing for the college. What was your degree in? I'm doing physical education. So I already started the process, but I stopped to continue with refereeing and then no, I am trying to finish it up. Okay, okay. But you're still playing volleyball? Yes, I love it. And how good are you at volleyball? Very good. Very good. Yes. So maybe we could have seen you playing volleyball at the Paris Olympics if Jamaica had qualified. No, I don't. Instead of being a football referee. I try to remain on the referee side. So I kind of do volleyball like my side training, you know, because it's something that I love. So I try to stay focused on refereeing because growing up, I always have options because I love cricket and I get the opportunity, right, to go to training one day with Stephanie Taylor. And I turn it down because the next day, I get a referee phone call that I need to do something. So I was in the middle of cricket or refereeing, you know. So because I already play football and I love football, I just say, you know what, stick to football because you already know some of the rules and the laws of the game. So that is how I kind of transition. But what are your thoughts about Stephanie Taylor and her cricketing ability? I love her so much. Me too. She's very good. I love her so much. She's great. Former West Indies captain, still playing and led Jamaica to the double in the women's 50 over and T20 tournament. Tournament recently. What has been your most difficult experience to date as a referee? Because I know there are difficult days. Difficult days is like, what must I say, you know, God, there are so many, sometimes, you know. You can't rank them. No. Yeah, I understand. Suffice it to say there have been some really tough days. Yeah, there are really some tough days. And you have to be mentally strong. Mentally strong. Well, we wish you the best of luck and we know that the Paris Olympics experience will be great for you. You're going there as a support referee. So at the moment, you're on a panel that you won't have a whistle, but you'll be like a fourth official. But if anything happens, you could be with a whistle. So congratulations on that appointment. Thank you so much. All the best to you and Danny and parchment representing Jamaica and the Caribbean at the Paris Olympics as officiating referees. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for taking the time to stop by. And we're looking forward to having you in studio again. Maybe when we're talking about Va, that is a discussion. It's a rough one. No, it's fine. It's fine. All right. I love Barbot. I'd rather stay on the field of play. Yeah. All right, Odette. Well, thank you so much. And of course, viewers, we're going to, yeah, we're going to take a quick break and come back. We really have a lot of football to talk today because Champions League was lighting up the home of champions.