 Mae'n lle iawn i'n hoffi i fynd i dda i fod i'r platformo mewn syniadau gyda mewn gweld i gesdol yma yn effeithio i dda i ddylu'r bwrdd ddysgu chi i ddweud y modlifydd i'n gweithio'r bwrdd eich myfyddiad postiadau newydd. So mi rhaid i ddim yn gweithio i fynd i ddysgu, gallwch chi'n ddim yn eu chleid... Mae'n ddweud ei fod yma, mae'n dweud sy'n cyfwm. Mae gweithio i gweithio i ddweud tan y maodi iddyn nhw i'n ddweud yma. I didn't go he said, I wanted to win. I asked my neighbor to clean up the fellow, to keep it from being a right. But you think it's right, it stuff like taking his knife off. I stuck it back in my handful of times. I shouldn't have done that. I believe they went to him to say, You've told us he did the murder, and you've told us other other factors about this, what you say he's done. He put me forward for another two murders. He said we're going to speak to him if he knows so much about him. That's what I say now, because I've never been arrested for a murder until now. I was responsible for a number of murders that had unsolved. That made me quite high professional in the eyes of the police. So a Hapman? Ia Hapman. E was a hoofer salesman. A hoofer cleaner. I'm not smiling about it, having a laugh. I was gonna call my book Hapman a Hoofer Salesman and you decided with question mark. That's why I smile about it. One of these murders was discussed in the House of Commons in another country, suspended links with England over it. It's quite a high-profile murder. And other murders, that again, is commonology committed about murders in the criminal fraternity and outside of that now because their like Charlie Wilson some were mentioning that with me I said you wanna check the dates that let kill down I said I was working for the police on that They had come and see me and I didn't agree of the murder They made a public apologyLAIL Ysyn «No, we haven't seen him, he won't talk to us». I wouldn't So in 1996 you get found guilty. What's going through your mind then, Kev, when you're getting a live sentence for a murder? Ben more on, in today's guest we've got Kevin Lane. How are you, Kev? Fine, thanks, James, please. Yeah. First of all, thanks for coming on the show. You've just been released from prison. Two days ago. You spent over 20 years in prison. You've spent for your freedom. Over the murder of Robert McGill. Yep. 1994. You get out, you've just done a recall and that's your out now free man again. First of all, how are you feeling? Tired. Why? Cos I've had a few late nights, or two late nights indoors and I get up at five and it straight away has its toll. I like to use the gym, get in there and keep fit. I like to be up and out and about. So you just need to adjust your timetable to this party mode sort of lifestyle where you're visiting people, you're having a meal and a bottle of wine where you've not touched alcohol for some time and then of course you're going to bed off a bottle of wine. It makes you feel sleepy a bit heavier. But I feel great. Feeling tired today. I feel a little bit but I'm going to make sure I get an early night this evening and I'll get back into my routine back in the gym. So yeah, feel good though. We'll touch on the case and I'll go back to the start of my guest Kev. Where you grew up and how it all began? Okay, I grew up in herefield middle sex, beautiful village, lovely place to grow up and as a kid. You had a lot of fish stalls and stuff, a lot of pubs, a nice tourist, not tourist but known for pub calls back in its day because of the obviously amount of pubs in there. It's a lovely village, nice common. So I grew up there, went to school there. My brothers and sisters are from there. My mum moved when we all fled the nest. Predominantly, we're based from there. I went to John Penrose Academy, got expelled from there. I went to a school. From there, I got work. I've worked as a child all my life. From the infants, I've worked whether it's a gardening round or I went to a paper round, paper round to a baker's, baker's to a chip shop, chip shop to work in. Four days a week of a local builder, Josh Clack. I loved working with Josh. Great builder, big family in the area. Talked me a lot. And I had four days work release. So I started work as an early man, early age. I moved into a flat at 15 with a friend of mine who was 18, which was great because I just met the first love of my life. So that was handy. We didn't have parents looking over us. She lured me, of course. My old flirtation went well. How's the dude? They do. I didn't know what hit me. And we had a flat growth. And she was a mother of my two eldest boys, Aaron and Tommy. That's Kim Purcell, real lady, real classy girl. She's still a beautiful lady today, excellent mother. Went on to marry, obviously went into prison. It's no good waiting 20 years for a man in prison. And there's two boys to be brought up and she went and met a man and she married him. She's the only one man she met and she's still with him today. So she's a good woman, Kim. So I met her when I went to Southbourne. I fancied her mate, right? And someone told me she fancied me. So she's all right as well. So I went with her and I'm glad I did because she's more suited. So then I had two children, Aaron and Tommy, like I say. Karen, I'm working, did really well work. I like work. Where did you get that in Green Dainty from a young age? To what was that come from, mum or dad? My dad was a groundsman. He did pipe, laid the grounds of building houses, grounds worker. Not as in tennis courts and stuff, but grounds. Who gave you the nudge though to be grafting at a young age and working hard to make your own money? My mum and dad split up when I was young. When I was massively so because you do have hand-me-downs and you get your brother's jumper or a knitted cardigan. And I wanted my own clothes. So by the time I was 12, I was buying my own clothes for school. Diffing it out for every single day with a different watch at 12. Loved having your own money to decide what you wanted to do. And to look smart in different pair of shoes each day for school. So I've gone on in that manner. My children have done the same. So it's nice to be have structured to your life. Apart from the past two chaotic days, shall I say, but if you've got structure and you can then embed structure into children, they go forward in the life a lot better. How about you at school, Kev? I like to laugh. It's a beautiful thing to laugh on that. Well, it costs nothing. It makes you feel good. And I'm nobody's dope. I educated myself in my sentence. I drafted my own representations in that. My barrister said all the most well informed person is ever represented. So I'm proud of that 20 years of no TV studying and reading has done a lot for me. And I did separate studies to working on my case all the time. But I love school and I did get expelled for shenanigans. Just having too much energy. And I remember seeing a child psychologist. They said there's nothing wrong with him. He's just got loads of energy. I'd play sport all day long, whatever I could do, whether it's carrying a bag of golf clubs or on a golf course, just to be involved in it, I would go and do it. I would turn up at a men's 11 cricket team when I was 12 just to get a game and get that ball hit you and you think, shit, it's coming at me and it's coming like a rocket. I couldn't, I didn't catch, I was bleeding. I remember one incident like that playing for the men's third team to make the numbers up so you go on the pitch. Of course the bleeding ball was coming at me and I'm not kidding. It hit my hands and he broke them. But I got three cakes and a nice meal at lunch time. Who was there? When was the first time you got into trouble, Kev? I got arrested for a fight when I was 15, 16, with an elderly lad, a bit older than me, a few years older than me, over a burger. Broke his nose, got arrested for a jeep assault. That was 15, 16. I was going out with Kim by then. So it started around about then really. And I got the 24 hours detention centre for that. Which was, it didn't deter me. Men screaming at you, using force on you. I don't think force isn't screaming at you. It's the best way to make someone listen. Quite a word spoken is far better. People listen more attentively. And children listen better when you speak to them quietly. As most adults do so. That didn't work for me. But it always works, James. Nonetheless, although I had a little bit of, you know, ffisty cuffs here and there, it was only ever really because people would take me for a fall and I looked very young at the time and very small. And I had a very pretty young lady on my arm, which attracts a lot of attention and trouble when you're young. Jealousy. Yeah, men won't behave appropriately around a lady and they say something or try and touch her or they come up to you while you're with her because you look like a college boy. But it normally ended up in tears by then because I was young and fiery. You know, I think you know the world. Carrying your nuts around in a wheelbarrow at 16 and onward, aren't you? So yeah, a young age really. You've done a lot of boxing as well, Kev, is that true? In the gym, yeah, I fight in the gym. So you could handle yourself? There you go. I've got a bleeding it and I've got to tell you that I did get it. Oh, now I look like this, I did get it. How was it then, your early 20s? Did you do it? What was your biggest sentence? I started when I was young. My auntie June, my dad took me first and then my auntie June took me because my dad and mum separated. So my auntie June took me to channel my energies in the right direction and I'll never forget it, I loved it. And then I went back, I didn't, I did junior and then I went back as a senior at 14 really, not a senior but at 14. And my knees went. So I couldn't do no sport from 14 to 18 had information on the knees, just doing too much as a young kid and I was growing. So I then went back at 18 and then I got banged up. But I've always liked getting in the ring and putting yourself against someone else. There's a skill and it is a skill. You've not got another 11 players to help you through that game, have you? If it's like you lose 11 near at football, you've lost 11 near of 11 players, you lose 11 near in boxing, you've had a good hiding and you're on your own and you've got to respect the person as opposite. You had to get in the ring and have a go of you, haven't you? Yeah, so what did you get at 18 for? I got a 20. Oh, sorry, I got 18. My 18, I went for a bit more than that. When I was 21, I went for kidnapping. I kidnapped a gentleman in whom his friends were stealing equipment from a friend of mine. He was a businessman. He went to the police. The police didn't have enough evidence. And there was a young lady who threatened, who informed on them to my friend, the boss. And these individuals who were stealing from that company went and threatened the girl. But they threatened the girl with a knife and she had a baby with her. They said, we'll cut you and the baby. And so my friend phoned me up and said, listen, these fellas have made some threats. Please kind of nothing about it. Can you get it sorted out? But don't you go, he said. I said, I won't go. I won't go. I did go. And I got done for kidnapping, took this fella away, roughed him up a bit. Thinking, you know, putting the world to rights. It was wrong what I did. But you think it's right. But you can't have no one threatening a girl with a knife, can you? And a baby and like, and the police can't do nothing about it. They don't have enough evidence. In fact, the fella we kidnapped weren't the one threatening the girl with a knife. But he was one of the, the gang from Reading. So I sent the message to him and I went to prison for that. I'll never forget when I got parole. They asked me about it. I said, would you do it again? I went, yes. Because I believed at the time. I'm laughing about it. It's how now stupid it was. But at the time, you feel, yes, I would do it again if you, you know, the moral cold of what's right and what's wrong. I didn't get parole. I've got two weeks. That's it. Why did you do when you came out after your first sentence? I went straight to work. Doing what? I set a yard up, a commercial yard. I had a security company prior to that, which I purchased when I was a young man. And I purchased the name of a company and then changed the name, not the brightest move. But I wanted to get into security for the camera security. A friend of mine has since passed. He was somewhat older than me. But he had a good business sense in offices and such. So we was going to partner up and I'd be the salesman and he would handle the the male shots, the targeting of the various businesses. And I got arrested for the kidnapping. So I never made the had an appointment in L's Corp of an American company to do camera security and I never made that. And I would have branched off then into the camera security and look where it is now. It's everywhere. So that was, you know, 32 years ago. I was going to do that. And so when I came home from the kidnapping, I was made into a DECA. I got, I never forget it because I went to prison and I got, I had a hung jewellty. And then I had a second trial. I didn't give evidence and it was I never forget it. It was a man. It was really hot. And there's in the court was beaming hot. And the judge put the jewellty into a hotel room. And he came back the next day. Someone would have the same clothes on. And he was then going to put him out into a hotel for the weekend. But he went out, came back in, guilty verdict within no time at all, literally turn around. I've gone downstairs to confirm my barista. We got caught back upstairs. The jury wanted it came back in. And they said they made a wrong decision and the judge said, I've got to take your first answer. And I said, it's not a game show, but I'm lucky. It's a couple of women were crying, some blokes were shaking their head. And I think it was all due to being put in a hotel again. So we went, I understand it's going to be immediate appeal and he gave me four lots of two to run concurrent instead of consecutively. So instead of getting an A, I've got a two. And he believed that he said like you as what is he called me? Vigilani. That's what he called me the judge. He said, you're not a vigilani. You can't put the world to right. But two years, two years, two years, go to prison. I thought touch. I've done six months on my mind. I got bail. Police got caught out lying for that crime. That's how I got bail. And I went back and I got sent to the game. The police phoned a witness up and said, can we meet you at the end of the road? So this witness came out and got in the back of the car and there was my photographs and my file in the back and she kept referring to me as Kevin during the trial at the old style commit what that was. My boss said, why'd you keep referring to Mr. Lane as Kevin? She said, oh, I've seen his file. The police phoned me up. Asked me to meet me at the end of the road. Wrote the new state of note and asked me to sign it so that I identified him. So when I was on the identification I didn't get picked out and she said it looks like him, but it's not him. But the chief inspector wrote it looks like him. Yes, it's him. She said I never said that. So I got immediate bail and then I went away again as I just explained when they came back with the wrong decision. I came out and I set up a yard to do metal recycling and clothes even. I did a couple of raves just jewels, denny ramping, woodroach. I did four raves actually. Went really well. Ticket sales or only. In the yard. Never carried on with the rubbish. I rented the yard out so I drew rents from the yard. And I've got a decent living out of that and I was still doing the security. But again, I bought the security company to branch into camera security. But it brought in a lucrative living. I was getting a nice living weekly. No, on a bad week. Back then, sort of 34 years ago, 800 quid. 1200 pound. Sometimes two grams. Sometimes a bit more. Over a month. I might have 8,000 pound for a young man. Ducking and diving. What was the raves like? Elevator grade when they back it up. Did you have a cross Andrew Pritchard? No, didn't know. No, they were a good rage back then. Do you know what? I know that name though. They started Genesis. Yeah. And Rainbow. Yeah. As the rainbow was another sunrise. But I know the Andrew Pritchard name. I just used to supply security for them and there were a load of venues, clubs and pubs. But it took up too much time. Were you taking drugs yourself back then? No, no. I didn't start drinking till I was 21. I did Dabelaud on EO2 when they was good. I didn't smoke back in the day. When things were different like the flour power that was like wood stock. That's what the ease was like back in the day. Free love, kingdom and time. Free love. Bloody love to everyone. Give me an aid. I should have given ease out more often. Obviously not like now because there's a rubbish they put in the book. But back, you never heard of something like death. So there was death. I thought it was the best, but that was a bad obviously many years ago down in Baselgrwm. You probably recall the same as me. There was a lot cleaner then and there was I'm not condoning drugs of course, but you know from the wood stock days and stuff people are going to take drugs. But I wish there was of the quality they was then. Now. It's all mixed with sugar. It was weight doves, mix of issues and people were but again it's there's no such thing. It's a good drug. Well they give them donated soldiers. Yeah, it's good for them. They say the brain. The brain. MDMA. I don't know. I think called Ayahuasca as well which says a plant medicine, but I'm still unsure at all. Now I'm all about trying to do it. I've heard of Ayahuasca. Did that take you off? Like you'd have to take it a few times. Don't you? It's a four day ceremony. So you drink it. They say it reconnects you with your soul. They say make sure you face all your fears and demons and there's a shortcut to happiness. I'm still unsure. I don't trust anyone I give. So even they kept telling me to surrender towards it. I was fighting it. Yeah. You go on to the bank control. Yeah. You've got to totally surrender, but it's each to their own. I'm trying to do everything natural now with the cold water stuff and meditation. Yeah. It's got to do. It's right for you. As long as you're not harming anyone, then so be it. So when you were early 20s, you were making money. Hold on. Are you any good at dancing? Not too bad. Try dancing. That might help you out. Do you dance? Get down the socks and clap. Have you been dancing? I love bloody dancing. I've been dancing. I've been dancing. I've been dancing. I've been dancing. I've been dancing. Fixing light switches. When you were in your 20s making money, you had the business mindset. Were you still violent after you got out of jail? After the kid napping? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to see the violence is. Oh, I could have a fight back in the day for a young man, but I don't like it. I just don't like violence. I may have been nicked for it and I may be pretty good at it in terms of holding my hands up. But I actually, I wouldn't go to clubs in the area where there was known for fighting at the weekends. I thought I'm over going. Now I don't want to fight. I wouldn't go. I never went to one club once called Bogots in South Fowl. Not once. Never took my girlfriend there, the mother of my children. No chance. Fighting her every week. And I thought, do you know what? If I'm going to be going to the clubs, I don't drink. I've just started boxing again. I was doing all right anyway. I bought my first house, a flat when I was 18. And I went right out of that. When the property market was booming. So I was always doing little bits and pieces and I bought a house by then. I was buying and selling cars and I had some lovely cars, porches and stuff like that where there'd be 150 grand, 100 grand now paid for cash out of Barclay Square and Henley's, things like that. So I was doing really well. I've lost my pattern of thought there. So what was we saying? You're just doing well in your early 20s. I see you're still violent. Yeah, but the violence is like, it just comes if you're young and you're out in the clubs and were you feared at a young age, Kev? Or were you respected? Respect is a big difference, isn't it? Yeah, of course. You can fear someone because they stab you. You can respect somebody because he will stand his ground and he may be the smallest fella or the biggest fella. But he might be the biggest fella with the smallest heart. So I respect everybody and I don't misjudge anybody at all, anybody. But I believe you can have people's respect from being transparent and decent and don't go treading on people's toes. I was like, don't tread on mine because I'll stamp on yours if you do. Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. But back in the day, if you cost me, I would take Umbridge with it and make sure that we had a set to. Which isn't clever. You know, you're young and... I wish I'd done a lot of things different. Maybe if my father had been around and hadn't died when I was a young man. How old were you? Well, I was 21 when my father died. But they separated, as I said, my mother and my father and I didn't see much of my dad. And... Did that play a massive effect on you with the anger and the violence, the frustration, the kind of abandonment issues? You don't think of the bank missions till you go to prison and you hear it. Of course, so you turn up for play, you're going for football and you'd be there an hour early waiting. No one else there, I'd get there early. I was wishing my dad was there. And it does have an effect on you because I think my dad would have kept me in tow. My dad, I'm the only one that looks like my daddy as a Scottish. Good job. Can't really joke. So, yeah, if I'd had a... a male figure in the house who I looked up to as a father, then, yes, but I didn't. Yeah, if your dad goes then, it's free reins to try and figure it out for yourself to grow up fast. I was fighting when my time was in the infants. My brother had a car accident. He got hit by a car and nearly died. He had all plates in his head. He was flown to hospital by a helicopter. He had a Mr McGoo crash helmet. Kids can be, you know, spiteful, unfortunately, they don't mean to me. Were you speaking to your dad before they died? Well, I was and I went to prison and they'd just got phones in the prison then, but you had to make it not on the land because it was in a little office and you had to book it. So, the last time I would have spoke to him was at his deathbed, but they didn't jack the call up. So I missed it and I phoned home, Kim. She obviously knew I hadn't been told that they'd phoned the prison and said that her father was going to pass away and everything's failing. He'd like to speak to his son. Obviously, the prison couldn't jack it up. So when I did get the phone call, I was told my father had passed away. Did that push you off? And now that you crack up? Or did you just go back to your cell and get the head down? I went back to my cell. No TVs then, although I didn't have a TV for my 20 years. A very bleak cell. So prison teachers had to harden it. It builds character, many different types of characters. And I recall sitting on a table at a window. No curtains. Outside all lit up. The dog handle walked past. I said, you all right, mate? It's about two in the morning, two, thirty in the morning, something like that. And he said, you all right? I said, I'm okay, mate. Lovely evening. Lovely evening, mate. Thank you. Off you went and I thought. In a cell, your dad's dead. Nothing on the walls. You've just been locked up for kidnapping. You haven't been in the prison six weeks. And it's a new prison, Bullingdon. So there's new staff. It was Mayhem, really. And then your dad dies. And they had to make me a de-cat to go to his funeral. Well, where I spent six months on remand and then I got a two year sentence. I owned my own home at the age. I had a business. I had children. So I wasn't a flight risk and they made me a de-cat and I went. I got picked up. I got dropped off. I was carried through the gate. Left me sleep down reception, woke me up. Carried me back to the cell at me. I was smashed. I thought, all right, dad's died. I'll have a drink. And I've never really been a drinker. I started drinking later in life but I went back to prison that day drunk. Nothing happened. Staff says he's dad's dead. What do you expect? We'll touch on now the case that you spent over 20 years. You were convicted of murder for Robert McGill in 1994 and over 20 years you've been fighting for your freedom to get the case overturned. Let's touch on the couple of weeks running up to 1994. Were you known by the police then, Kev? Yeah, known by the police. I've got... I've had a few run-ins with them over the years. Ringing cars. That's quite lucrative back in the day. Very lucrative. Stole? Yeah. It's very lucrative, yeah, but... I worked though, James. I still worked. Even though I, you know, I'd buy a stolen recovered car for £4,000. Get some interior fitted into it. Sell it for £14,000. I was making a lot of money back then. But the police were, I was known to them for the cars. I got Nick by Scotland Yard. Stolen car squad. Had a few fights from the doors. Got stabbed there. I took the knife off the person and stabbed him back with it. I got arrested for that. Not self-defence? Well, regardless of taking his knife off of him, I stuck it back in my hand full of times. I shouldn't have done that, obviously. Self-defence, so on that. I went to court now, got a knock you out. I laughed about it, but I was thinking, you know, he pulled the knife out on me. Not that. Obviously, he couldn't have caught me. And that was there. There was a big scar that was many years ago, literally. And the one above it, you could put your finger in it. So I got arrested for that and bit some pieces like that, yeah. So did you know Robert McGill? No, never. And when did the police come knocking at your door for that murder? How many months after? Or weeks after? Or was it days after? I got arrested on the 10th of January. That was in 1985? Yeah. And when they released me, I thought he was saying like this, they arrested me at Hexham Magistrates Court. I had to fight with some rugby players, which is in my book, fit it up and fighting back. Wishes out now which people can get on Amazon? Get on Amazon and all my social platforms under the same name. Do you want to support me and see material that's available in relation to that book? So the fact that you're in there about being arrested at Hexham Magistrates Court, I had to fight with a couple of rugby players. I got arrested for it, went back to appear court, I got arrested at court for the Bob McGill murder, taken down the motorway with blue lights, front and back, armed police. I think what's going on here? I remember Spackman coming to my house like this. And this is a copper who ended up being corrupt and getting charged themselves, a tamper with other people's evidence and being a wronging. I couldn't quite make it out. I was thinking, oh, I haven't done it, so I'll be okay. Famous last words, like the ice cream was. Yeah, Joe Steer and TC Campbell. TC Campbell, years and years and Bridgewater 3, the Birmingham 4 and Guildford 6, five appeals, some of those, and those lads had, before they finally said didn't do it. And I got released from Watford Police Station. But at that time, Roger Vincent, he'd been arrested with David Smith. They was original suspects going around, bragging that they'd done it, calling himself Ronnie and Reggie. And I still don't know which one thinks he's Ronnie, but I'd like to find out. So it amused me. So there was telling people, like I said, there was Ronnie and Reggie, a number of other factors in relation to it. Like Roger Vincent and David Smith. Yeah, I didn't know at that time that they had had confidential chats with the police. With the informants? Yes. I asked to speak to the police on a confidential basis, signed it in five places, custody record, can't get out of it, taken it into your room for these requests. And they were kept from me. But at the time I was in the police station, smack them and shot up to see Vincent in Woodhill Prison. And then as a gentleman in the book, and I don't keep one referring to that, but the book sets out my case for you all to read and judge for yourself based on the evidence that's put before you. And they went to Vincent. And I believe they went to him to say, right, we've got Lane in the police station. You've told us he did the murder and you've told us another other factors about what you say he's done. And he put me forward for another two murders. And I said, we're going to speak to him if he knows so much about him. That's what I say now. Because I've never been arrested for a murder until now. And the fellow that was, so Bob McGill was murdered. And there was a shotgun used on the murder. That shotgun was sold by Roger Vincent to a gentleman called Tam Jury. Tam Jury came forward. He said, I've seen and told to look at his website. Bloody, bloody, bloody. I've been up all night contacting my solicitor. He said, I bought the gun he said using this murder. I bought it off of Roger Vincent. Now he looks like he has glass in his porridge just to Tam Jury. You know, he's a Glaswegian. He's, you know, tough old cookie. And he bought the gun. He needed a bit of protection. He was having some trouble at the time back in his day. He came forward and I bought the gun. Roger Vincent sold it to me. Two weeks after he sold it to me, he phoned me up and said, don't get caught with that gun. He said he's blown someone's head off with it. It's hot. So then I then get arrested. Tam Jury dumps a gun in the sea. I get arrested. Spackman shoots up to see Vincent. Smith has been released as well. He's not been remanded. Smith phoned Tam Jury up and said, we want to buy the gun back. We give you more than you paid for it and we come and get it. He said, but it's mental. You've used it on a murder. He said, no, it's in the North Sea now. But the timeline of that happening shows that I was in the police station. Spackman shot up to see Vincent, trying to get some evidence on me to plant which would have been the gun. And then Smith phoned Tam Jury to get the gun back. He couldn't get the gun back, but that's what they were going to try and do at that time. I got bailed. Of course, they're still building a case around me. I wasn't arrested due to the evidence that they had. The evidence took them elsewhere. The gentleman got caught with a car used in the murder or supposedly used in the murder. Said he got it off of Vincent and Smith. Is that a red BMW? BMW. Was your DNA in the red BMW on a bag? They say so, yeah. But there's the panorama programme on YouTube fitting up and fighting back. Quite clearly shows what took place there. So they says that you had a bag, no gun in it, no gun residue, but potentially the way you're holding a bag is if you're holding a gun. They said that there was nitroglycerin and dinotrolin in the bag which is consistent with having a gun in there. But it was one particle. And as I said, the panorama programme shows that you get contaminated on a train. If you had a license for a gun and you went shooting, touching you, I would get contaminated. Pretty much a dead sir. You'd have it all in your car. You'd have it everywhere. And they told me and said I'd gripped a gun inside a bag and the line on my palm were consistent with gripping a Mossberg palm action in that bag. And they said that to the jury. And the jury thinking oh, so he's gripped a gun in a bag. Now that bag's an ammunition and it ought to have a gun in it. He must know something. And I'm sitting there thinking, how can they get away with this? I knew I hadn't gripped a gun in a bag. And at that point there where they're coming out of statements like that, I knew I was buggered. I thought I'm getting fitted up here because they're making statements of untruth. That had BM, your son's DNA was in the... Yeah, my son was in it. So that was your car? How did they end up getting that car? Well, I had a car. I had a Ford Cosworth, you know, like when they first come out. Yeah, fast. I had one of them. And they got stolen off my drive. Over the next course of a few days, I started looking at another car. Couldn't see one I wanted. And that was offered to me to borrow. So he said it's in the car park. I'm doing a bit of work. Of course, BMW. I've been to look at two BMWs over that weekend and Astra and XR2 for what they do for running around in. And then... But they were too expensive so I didn't buy them in terms of they were only too much money for the car. So I've gone to pick this BMW up in the reindeer public house. Of course, it was a bit of an old banger. I took it back two days later. But I'd had it in my possession. So I'd had my car stolen, borrowed that car, give the car back. That car was seen being driven by another male with dark hair. Two days after I dropped the car back, by a police officer that knows me and says it wasn't Kevin Lane driving that car. By which time I'd returned the car. So who's had it in between? How long was your case on for? How long did it run for? Well, I had a 13-day trial. Which isn't pretty long for a murder trial. No, 21 days. Second time was 11 actually. So your first trial you got... There was no evidence. Bigot thrown out. How did you do it? I hung jury. So bit your co-accus was... Was it Vincent or was it Smith? Vincent was... He was kept in different prisons up and down the country. He was having police visits, which again, I've got proof of that. Was that in the first case that you used to were in a dock together? Yeah. Never knew Vincent. And he got let go but it was only used to trial yourself? Yeah. So you never know any of those men? Smith or...? No, Smith. Smith would come into a club ways to work the door out a few times. But it just... I didn't know him as in terms of knock-up out of him. And Vincent... I'll never forget... When he did eventually come to Bowman's unit after being moved around the country for police visits. When we was driving to... In the... You know, the... All the armed police around us in the van had been bounced around, going round and round about the wrong way. He chirped up. He said, I remember you, he said. Used to come round and collect your monies from the pubs. For your security. I know, did you? Now he said that. There's police officers in the back of that prison van that shouldn't have been there. They didn't need to be in the van. And they were there writing everything down. But no, I never knew Vincent. So when you got away with the first time with the hung jury, were you thinking, OK never hear from it again? Or did you realise that we're trying to build a bigger case against you? Well... I knew things were wrong by... I had money sent to me in Spain. That money, no records of that. I knew banks kept records but the police had been in search of records before my solicitor. Thomas Cook and stuff like that. They presented information forward to the court that I knew was wrong. And I was getting worried then. More so when they... We found out, I didn't find out this for years later, but I sensed something was wrong. I said, there's something going on. I said, I can't put my finger on it, but there's some untoward going on here. Which came apparent years later when I got my solicitor's case file. I said, can I have your file? I want to go through it. See what letters you've sent, timelines and such. Cos I wrote over 10,000 letters while I didn't have the TV and just threw myself into my case. And in my solicitor's custody case file were his notes. And in the notes he's turned around and said, bumped into Officer Spackman in the corridor. Told me the split of the jury. Now whatever goes on in the jury room is not meant to... Whatever goes on there doesn't leave there. He told my solicitor the split of the jury. He said it's eight to four. And we're going for another trial, he says, if you get hung during the next one as well. Now how did he know what was going on in that jury room? Shouldn't have happened. And I believe that one of the police... There was a police officer who was the foreman on that jury. I believe he was a policeman. Great, but I don't think police should be in the jury. And I don't think they should have 24 hour arm protection most of the time, just that they can get spoken to by the police officer. You can turn the jury against the defendant. Arm police on the roof. Helicopter taking me to court. That doesn't look good though when it goes on in the papers and the news. And the jury see that because they then start thinking, this guy is proper. The kids used to come and see me in prison. I said, Uncle Kevin, what are you in prison for? I said, find stones at low flying airplanes. And then I thought about the helicopter above the van. So what was the evidence then from the first case that done you for the second case? Did they have new evidence? Or was it just a retrial? There's no new evidence. It was just what Vincent had told them off the record. I was responsible for a number of murders that had unsolved. So that made me quite high profile in the eyes of the police. So a hit man? Yeah, a hit man. And I was a Hoover salesman. Hoover cleaner. I'm smiling about it, having a laugh, but you know, I was going to call my book Hit Man a Hoover Salesman and you decided with a question mark. That's why I'm smiling about it. OK, so yeah. So in there wise, one of these murders was discussed in the House of Commons in another country suspended links with England over it. It's quite a high profile murder. And other murders that again, it's common knowledge you committed those murders have been the criminal fraternity. And outside of that now because there are like Charlie Wilson. Someone mentioned that with me. I said, well, you want to check the dates of that killed down. I said, I was working with the police on that. They had come and seen me. I didn't agree with the murder. They made a public apology. He said, no, we haven't seen him. He wouldn't talk to us. I wouldn't. So the evidence against me in my second trial was pretty much the same as the first, but they just get better at it. They had a clever prosecutor. A very intelligent man. You're in there under a lot of pressure. You're in the special security unit. You're not getting the evidence that you're asking for. I mean, I got statements off of a fellow involved in the case. And Leonard Bennett, he was given a car by Vincent and Smith to burn. His statements were withheld for me for a number of years till after I was convicted. 2007 I got them. It's because he says Vincent and Smith gave him a car and asked him to burn it. So a third have produced him in court. They dropped the charges and he said, I was paid to dispose of the car. They dropped the charges on him because if they had pursued the charges on him, it had been in the dock with me and Vincent. They'd have had to give his statements to us, which they would have held. And I never even knew it existed at the time. And it would have took the case in another direction. So where there was evidence that took the case elsewhere, that was suppressed and withheld. And they went with me. So in 1996 you get found guilty. What's going through your mind then, Kev, when you're getting a life sentence for murder? Your life flashes by you. You think kids, I'm not going to see an email. And I was aware that once you get convicted, that's when the fight really begins because you're convicted. Many people have their struggles trying to overturn their convictions. A mindful of that. It was a long battle. And you just know then that your whole life is going to change. You're going into a hellhole, especially when I was in the unit at the same time. Thinking I'm now going into the high security estate, Whitemore, Fawc Sutton, Llonglarton. Very vicious places, dangerous. But it's not something you want, is it? And your life's over is what you think. Your children, you've not been there for them. Whilst you've been on remand, you never had a father. No, your children haven't got a father. Well, I knew I was in trouble because I knew the evidence had been fabricated. And I was triple category A. I was the only man in the country, triple A, held on remand. I was on remand with the IRA Godfathers who escaped out of Whitemore unit with an armed astute with Andy Russell who also flew a helicopter into Garchry many years ago and landed on a football pitch. So they placed you at that grade. You've got a long way to go before you get considered to be released because you're considered to be too dangerous. So you've got to go triple A, double A, single A, B, C, D. But I was still an A-cat 16 years into my sentence up until some paperwork came along and caused a prison service to treat me like a hot potato and get rid of me. I was on the stage that I had never been released for many, many, many more years over my tariff. I did go out for my tariff, but I'd have done 25, 30 years. And I'll never forget there was a member of staff who came up on the landing when I got downgraded. Because first of all, I'll rewind. The prison directorate come, he's waiting outside my prison, outside my prison cell. And I said, hello Danny, Danny McAllister, Scotchman. Right staunch governor. If he was wrong, he'd tell you he was wrong. I'm going to tell the staff they was wrong when they were all, and they'd give it to them. A proper fella. And I always respected him and Governor Perry and Whitewell. Sit down at your table and say, oh, you lad, it's all right. But I want to hear what's going on in terms of is my nickname run right? Are the guards pulling the wool over my eyes? And they listen to you, right? And I respected that. So he's outside my cell and he says, is that right? What I've heard about this paperwork? I said it is, yeah. He's sort of come and tell you I've put something in place in relation to your category A. And I thought, oh, has he come to tell me that I'm being made back up to AAA because they're saying I'm now orchestrating getting paperwork out of a police system from within prison. And I respect it coming from him, so I won't kick off and, you know, go nuts, you know. I've fought all these years to get out and I'm going back up the ladder. Anyway, he did it 16 days later. Caff, real nice screw. I don't mind, you know, thank God for the good in the job. It'd be terrible places if there was all our souls, wouldn't it? And we need the good in the job. And all those that throw scorn on that, they want to think about when there's been a member of staff that's done something for them, when they've had a family death or an important phone call or an important visit where they've sorted it. And if it weren't for them, the place would have been a lot worse. And this lady, Caff, she was a real nice lady, wouldn't talk to you if she knew you as an asshole and you weren't respectful around women or a bit of a smell around your case. She'd answer your questions, but to her to have a conversation with you, you felt privileged because she was a nice lady. She told me I'd come off the cat A. She said, Kevin, I've got something to tell you. I said, have you, Caff, what's that? She said, you're cat B. And it was lovely coming from her. So I got taken off the cat A then to cat B, went in a governor's meeting, they called me in, said, where do you want to go? I thought I'll go to Rye or Private Nick, they're like hotels. And they processed you quicker because everyone that comes through the gate there is money. So they're quicker to get you out, to get more money in, don't they? And they were sitting talking about me like I weren't there. Phone Rye or they said, tell them he's done every course he needs to have done if he hasn't done it just to get him there. And you always, yeah, there's a lot goes on behind the scenes that you're not, you never party to, you believe it's happening. And I witnessed and see it with my own ears. They can send you where they want, when they want, and they lie to each other just to get you out of their prison or to get you into another one. And I went to Ryeall. So what was that like? Bloody holiday camp. How many years after I take you to get there? 16. Start a long time, Kev. How many years did it take an ear sentence when you realise that Spackman was bent and you started getting charged? I think he had, then people he got convictions with, got their cases overturned. So you thinking then that there's a chance for me to get out? How many years were you entity? Well, I was 2002. So still early on in your sentence? Yeah. Seven years? 22 cases were reviewed by CPS and they found none of them wanting. And yet a case called Khan and Bashir went to the Criminal Cases Review Commission and that's in the book. And it is absurd how that case never got referred prior to going to the CCRC. Without Spackman being arrested. What he did in that case is just, he was in the book, fitted up and fighting back another plug. Yeah, quickly. And they phobbed me off and I thought I'd be going home based on at that time I knew about the confidential chats that Vincent had had. And I said, well that's an unfair trial because I should have been able to attack my accuser, not literally of course, but ask him how come he knows so much about a murder when you're charged with murder as a joint enterprise. So if he did it, I did it. If I did it, he did it. And yet he's given information to the police whilst charged with murder in the police station about the murder, how much was paid, how the murder was done. Then surely that should have been put to the jury, shouldn't it? And he should have been asked to ask questions on that. Answer questions should I say. So I felt at that time with Spackman and these questions not being answered that I knew then I wasn't getting a fair hit. And they sent me back to go back to prison, stay there. Roger Vincent and Dave Smith, 10 years later, is it King, some of the King get murdered as well is the King the same set up as the McGill murder. McGill get shot five times broad daylight. King was shot a few times broad daylight. They eventually get charged for that. Did you ever reach out to them too? If they've been charged for a murder to put their hands up if you thought they'd done the first one. No, Vincent, when I found out about his confidential checks he came away for the Davey King murder. He knew there was conflict between myself and him because never did anything to help me. Never contacted me when I was in prison after that, not at all. Did you train to reach them? No, someone gave him some money for me and he pocketed it giving me a load of designer clothes where he went home. Two people in fact I know gave him money. Sean Shinkwin, renowned English boxer. He got a fight of the year when he was a professional. His nephew was Miles Shinkwin the Southern Arrow title last year I think. He gave him money. Vincent Bindit, he said you're Kevin's Cody. Wallop, give him some money. My Cody, what I'm leading. Yeah, Bindit, that's the type of character he was. And he's telling people like that's the way it goes. He's been found guilty of it. What do you expect me to do? Well, I didn't know when it first happened and it set me up to take the fall. Who do you think called Robert McGill? Well, I wasn't now but I know that the evidence brought the police to Vincent's door and Smith's door and subsequently since then I've uncovered a whole wealth of material that does take the picture or paint the picture a lot clearer. And you know, I'm not going to say who committed the murder but I know I never and I know that the police evidence does take it elsewhere and that's been suppressed and withheld. How hard does that cave to be doing over 20 years in life for a crime you didn't commit? And then it starts coming out that corpus were bent, tamper my evidence, the whole shebang that it was a setup. How does that? How do you survive over 20 years in prison? The oldest part is taking the knockbacks when people won't accept the letters that you write and you're putting clear facts like I've just discussed to you. If we were charged with murder together and you're getting information on that murder the Jewish should know about that and you should be asked questions at home you know so much about this murder if you're charged with the murder you shouldn't have been acquitted. So when you're getting facts like that pushed under the carpet refused to be answered you know you're in trouble. That was the hardest part and I thought when is someone going to stand up and help me? From all the letters I said detailed information clearly set out not laboring on I said this he said that constructive documents easy to follow, easy to digest factual and you've still never got nowhere. And it wasn't until companies like Rough Justice you know, well-known miscarriage of justice organisation that they overturned 17 miscarriage of justices they did that they're funding taken away. They think gosh they're just about to do a TV programme on me and then you have trial and error again but these were their one minute gone the next so you're consistently searching for an avenue of help by sending out all these letters to MPs journalists and website you put that up so people can come and see what you've got to say and that's how Tam Jury came forward through the website. See because you had a bit of a violent past before obviously no muddus but see when you get charged with muddus do people believe you that you were an innocent kid or was a people kind of going nah I think he's he done it? Well I was lucky enough to know that people in the system knew I never because Vincent was obviously always going around bragging about it. Some people will never believe you anyway because there's just the hell bent the heavily entrenched views but yeah I had a lot of support through I said he works all the time on his case he works all the time day and night day and night no TV just in his cell working on his case sending letters out big campaign and he's done it consistently all these years and he still does it I must say something Why did you not have a TV? Well I don't think they're that good for the brain If you use them socially with you know your partner or your children okay but to sit there channel hopping and flicking is no good for your brain I like to read me and I would although I was always doing my case work I prefer a good book it's educational motivational it's better therapy for you the sentences are that long now you sit there just clock clock watching nothing bored where if I've got a good book evening's gone the week's gone two weeks are gone can't wait to get back to that book you know yourself James you like to read don't you so yeah I didn't know and I just worked day and night rushing around to get the mail out get it printed get it out get the stickers on the envelopes miscarriage justice stickers and all sorts of I sent every letter recording delivery to make sure it got there in 2015's when you got out would you have got out quacar kef if you had met the cream? yeah how long earlier? well it goes to show I've known if you get a tariff you can go home on your tab if you get a recommendation you have to serve the recommendation and then we will start to look at you over that's not quite the case now on some people's positions but I did 20 my tariff was 18 so I probably could have got out into a D category prism before 16 years well I certainly might have had a chance of getting into a D category 16 if I had put my hands up and done all the courses what was it like when you got your your lib date through getting released did you know what was coming up? I again it was I knew it was kind of in Blantau house by then so good prism I was working out I went to go up on parole and my probation officer at the time hadn't prepared my paperwork to be released for a permanent address he left it as a home leave address so they kept me over Christmas again it would have been my first Christmas home just because the paperwork hadn't been prepared so I ended up staying over for Christmas and then I got the answer and of course you get the answer within 14 days I was out it was great How was that getting out after Twitter years ago? Do you know I made a mistake? I turned around and looked at the gates don't do that because I mean you might come back and I thought I'm never coming back here and I went off went to the orchard pub in Reislip and there's a big open green there and it was packed I said keep it quiet I mean it was kept quiet some of my own real close friends didn't really know about it they didn't know about it it was I didn't in four hours I didn't get to speak to everybody they had to get extra bar stuff in for the bar it's a big pub in the orchard and the whole green outside was chuck of luck so it's overwhelming in some instances but I took to it like a duck to a water I had a thirst for life I wanted to get out I walked across the road I had no problems crossing the road I noticed there was a lot more cars on the roads people had a lot of bumper trainers and different coloured hairs now like Johnny Foreigners in the country So I'm going back to the future just looking at everybody differently a lot of foreigners honestly like yng yng yng yng yng yng yng and blim in Polish and all sorts of Romanians and I thought I hadn't seen it so and that's obviously when the economy was booming there's a lot of work going on so I had to adjust to that it was good I really enjoyed it so I took off, went to work straight away built a company I set a company up and I acquired some contracts in the building trade decent contracts I think over the space of one year into the next I took £1.7 million off of one company and I had other contracts with other companies I was doing £100,000 a month with insurance work as well with another company I was doing okay it was a hard game you're about to do it 5.30am to 4.30am travelling up and down the country all the time seven days a week having one Sunday off and out of every four officers and trucks and managing the men and managing the sights it's not that I would do again so I loved it in terms of work provided a good living for myself I must say I could go where I wanted really if I wanted to get a tailor made suit for instance I could and it's nice to be able to do that when you've just come out of prison and go to tailors that are I might take you actually you're sharp jester I'm more than half big you're sharp jester well tonight Olegori he's the number one bespoke tailor in the world he made this jacket in his shirt so he's very expensive but he's got Eric Clapton and Tour de France and he picks his clients unless they've been referred to him so I can go to him and get my suit made in Italy he has different price ranges I have to say because he's a royal family in the Saudis and things like that so I could do that from working hard and I loved it but years go quick before you know it it's gone gone gone you think God you're working and you're tired I'm not doing that this time I've got a modular home company which I researched four years ago I knew the country was going to go big on modular homes because of modern methods of construction far supersedes old conventional building now and the book fitting up and fighting back I believe will take me places I've done speeches that Cambridge, Oxford being at Colchester or just you know Terry Marsh was there when I went there with Terry Marsh and Rayza Smith he knows he's a journalist he's an amazing man love no, love no he's no was couldn't be the right in prison got a chap at his cell, son's dead he don't fuck this man he think he was doing a life sentence at a time started educating himself learning how to read and write now he's got his own publishing company phenomenal man I was with Noel when his son died he was going to do something really where he lost the plot he put it in his book and I said listen put your head on right the way around that's not the way to be going because he didn't let him out for his son's funeral either he was going to do something and he never did it and he's always said I'll never forget Kevin I'll just come back from a lay down actually I had a 28 day lay down in Belmarsh unit they called it a cooling off period I was calling the first day I went there I didn't need to be there 28 days and you know he's young again I came back and I was on Noel's landing when I could say his son died yeah good friends were good friends they mean as well Paul Ferris yeah great man Franklin prison I met him when I went there had a drink with him he used to have pubs and sales and used to have a free dinner he used to have a pub and he used to have a drink with me you couldn't come to my cell to have a drink with me unless you was invited of course and if you haven't dressed up you've got to dress up like you're going out Friday night in you come get him you're just gone have a dance sit with a married dancing boo people would go on it's funny and a bit of singing I'm not a very good singer I believe James if I hadn't gone through that sentence laughing and joking and singing I mean God passing out I've done that a lot lately on that bloody drink I've got to say but I wouldn't have come out the other end and I went to see a therapist when I came home and I mean I was seeing a top therapist in London which I paid for and he said I've never known you've spent such long in prison so long in prison Kevin if you hadn't told me he said honestly you're fine he said everyone's got a cognitive defect I said it's not me it's my mate but yeah when I interview people there's something about you Kevin you're very intelligent you're bang on the money when it comes to business other stuff like that but obviously you just get out a couple of days ago touch on you got a recall there as well what was that for common assault I'm ashamed of it so as a lifer you've got to be in control of your emotions now it doesn't matter what you do to me whether you want to spit in my face scratch my car kick it punch it if I get out of that car and throw you then I've lost control of my emotions and that's what I've got called back to prison for what was that like when you said looking around at the gate and saying you'll never be back there to then being back there doing well for yourself built businesses, got a good life to then seeing yourself back in it's very difficult because I'd let a lot of stuff go whereas I would never let it go years before if I had a problem with you I'd come and find not you per se but somebody else who will let's do what men do best I love someone who'll just have a straightener and we'll sort it out so you can't do that when you're a lifer people can take absolute liberties with you in your life knowing that they've only got to make a phone call when you get recalled back in and I thought if I was committing crime to earn a living then I can justifiably say yeah I've been recalled to prison but I've been recalled to prison for being I believe I should have walked home okay instead of my car keys were taken they was hidden I couldn't find them, my phone, my wallet my house keys so I couldn't leave and the court time I should have walked home which was 50 miles yeah well they're probably right I wouldn't have spent 14 months in prison but it's not as simple as that as you know and hence getting recalled to prison for I wasn't drunk either for somebody who had consumed some alcohol and was upset for something I feel I could have been managing society for it was a crime I broke the law, got done for common assault and it was upgraded to assault by beating no beating, I've threw the person literally and it's on video so if anybody wants a bloody seat I could put it up if I wanted to but I won I found it very difficult because when I got recalled they said he's been on bail for six months why do I need to be managed back into prison for a common assault or why can't I do therapy outside I've been out nearly five years no problems there's no police and telling us online they said whatsoever so to be recalled into prison for something that I believe if I wasn't a lifer I'd have been bound over or something in society and the main three with two businesses I had a an overdrive facility for £450,000 with Lloyd's in one of my businesses and it was a lorry agency where you take mucks out of the ground and you put materials back in and stuff like that soon as I went to prison took it shut it down 14 months never seen my baby son Covid came in so you banged up a lot more and I thought I felt it very difficult in terms of accepting I just didn't think it warranted being me recalled to prison for 14 months when I employed people not one or two people I had 25 staff on the book paying their taxes where do you go from here now Kev you still try to get your case overturned you just try to keep the head down make more money, enjoy life, smile dance, go south dancing where does Kev and Lloyd go from here I'm going to have a mild flirtation okay I'm going to I'm going to get back to work pretty much soon I've had 14 months in my company sitting now I need to get out there get some contracts back on the table we've got some contracts limbed up on the table now I'm going to just enjoy a few days and drink to people get back in the gym because obviously we had no gym in there see my son and my sons but my baby boy he's three and a half I need to see him some other members of my family get back to life I believe that the book is going to take me places because I've had a number of inquiries already from people in relation to a film and doing some more speeches I've got a book launch which will be advertised and there'll be yourself there and other people there show up, get some people there some some guests of interest influencers and then see where it takes me but I just want to enjoy life again and I'm probably going to move I just need a fresh start and if the book takes off I'm going to do phenomenally well I must say and if it continues in that light this time next year, Rodney you'd eat another book as well Duncan Campbell would have seen your journalist for the Guardian he's like Maritah Julie Christie he's done quite a few books he's a sheriff of journalists in my opinion he read the book and he called up he said I've read it, bang one guy said there must be a follow-on he said honestly it's a really good read and he's given me a fair review for the back and I've had a few of those reviews come back talking about the book and for instance the other day a gentleman said he picked up he read 100 pages in one go other people bookstores have said best book they've read all year last year, not this year I'm getting that type of response which is a positive for me Would you look back at your life, Kev, would you see? Well people would say to you they would have liked to have changed some things in life and I would have done I certainly wouldn't have liked to have done the 20 years that I did but I'm hoping now that the 20 years that I served it has put me in a different position in life where I know different people I'd always believed I'd have done well in life because I was way before my time in the industry whether it's camera security for cars in car parks recycling sales I would have done really well but I think that the opportunities of life can give me now will allow me to better other people's lives certainly better my own life I believe some stuff for my children and my family you do need money in life so you can make people happier with a bit of money so I work a lot with the Emily Ash Trust Paul Foster children with illnesses so I'm going to donate some of the book to that charity and SWAT I'm going to donate some money to SWAT and there was another charity Crisis which I always support and I'm going to donate so much of that to every single soul to those charities and then try and do some it's nice to be nice and it's nice to see people smile surely but I can't people just accept that and it's a great feeling when you see children laugh when they've got terrible illnesses all that else you can make people laugh you're going to try and still think get your case overturned you're just going to leave it there and just get on with your life so you ask me that well the panorama programme on Fitted Up and Fighting Back YouTube shows that that conviction was found on evidence that was false so the jury found me guilty on misrepresented evidence and as Joel Bernathe in turn says it is a game changer so I'm due to go back to the criminal cases review commission shortly I'm not confident with those I must say because Calysia the prosecutor he passed away he set a foundation up called the Calysia Trust and that was for trainee barisers and they had gone off to work within the CCRC during their training so they're never going to overturn my conviction when they're in there under the foundation are they it's just not going to happen is it surely and I could never work out why I wasn't getting a fair hit should I say within the CCRC and the former Chief Constable of Police of Hertfordshire was now one of the 14 members CCRC members commissioners and he said it was inevitable the staff of the CCRC knew the police officers involved in my case or knew someone or knew them but this wouldn't cause the impartial observer to form the view of biased well what do you think surely if you worked as a Chief Constable or your police officers whose colleagues have worked on my case review in my case that's got to be biased what are your views on that so I'll be going back to the CCRC based on the panorama program and you have a look at that and you make your mind about what you think of that and if you don't agree with it signthechange.org or leave some reviews somewhere but do something to say you're not happy with it and I hope to get a parliamentary investigation from the back of these podcasts you can see what I have to say purchase the book I don't make nothing for the book very little it will not make me rich not as it's doing it at the moment it will make other people rich like Amazon Charger I must say but it will overturn my conviction hopefully that's why the book was written and that's why I'm doing these to keep spreading the message spreading the message you're still in contact with anybody from Hackneyddean prison category is yeah how are they? I had a call from Kenny Collins at Hatton Garden Burglar Kenny's a good old friend of mine every Christmas without fail 500 quid found its way to me wherever I was in whatever prison I was fundraising do's and there's many other people who I mentioned their names every Christmas wallet recording delivery registered post very well looked after for I believe just being a decent person no other reason people think you're okay so Kenny phoned me on the way here and I'll be going to see him old school criminal don't believe in hurting women and children won't talk to staff just he's that way unless he has to nothing wrong with me he just I'll be going to see him and a lot of other people that I do you know I've got time for they're good people in their heart they may have committed done something wrong but it doesn't make them bad people were you having with Charlie Bronson? I was with Charlie I wrote about Charlie I think Charlie may be getting out next year Charlie needs to be put on a farm with his paintings and left alone when you're in that cell 23 hours a day nowhere else to go apart from that yard and you're put back in that cell believe me you would kick off because you're driven stir crazy and look at him he's done really well for anybody watching care that's maybe what you're getting involved in a life of crime that's maybe battling with their own demons what advice would you give for them? go to work you're better off free I don't believe in the gangster films where the gangsters are hard tough cookies like angels with dirty faces love that film what do you hear what do you say? he's cry didn't he? James Cagney the priest told me cry though because he didn't want to make them look tough cry people always ask me the question do you not get scared and if you're in people who's been convicted of murdering bank robbers I say no because what I see is vulnerability I see is all battling doesn't matter who it is you tend to see we're all in the struggles some people get led down different paths but I do believe that you make your own choices in life people do make mistakes but the beautiful thing about life is people also change everybody's in the same journey we're just trying to get through life we're all just going through making it up as we go along but as long as you're not harming anyone then life can be good you can't change the pain in the past but what you can do is learn from it I believe you're a man that learns from it but you're a very intelligent man very I won't watch the news for all you people out there happy news if you've got Alexa, ask Alexa for happy news hearing good things that are going on in the world why don't I want to watch bad things all the time so I'll try to focus on positive thoughts and if a bad thought comes into my head I'll just bad thought park it up and leave it there kev we're coming on today and telling your story brother I thoroughly enjoyed that and I wish you all the best for the future good luck with the case as well and hopefully it's overturned thank you very much check out more of my podcasts on the right and be sure to like share and comment your thoughts on this week's podcast thank you