 Good morning or good afternoon. I'm so glad that you're here for another episode of the nonprofit show. Today we have Pearl Hoaglin joining us and Pearl is the director with Fundraising Academy. Pearl's gonna talk to us about prospecting donors and even give you some questions that you might want to ask when you are prospecting these donor gifts. So Pearl, we are excited to jump into this week with you kicking off with you for this nonprofit Power Week. And before we do that, we of course like to remind our viewers and our podcast listeners who we are. So Julia Patrick of course is here day in, day out. Julia serves as the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy and she allows me to be her trusty sidekick. Co-host, I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven Group. We love having these conversations and we couldn't continue these without the support of our amazing sponsors. So I'm gonna give a verbal shout out for those of you listening, but those of you watching, you can see their logos. Thank you so very much to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy with the National University, Nonprofit Nerd, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique and the Nonprofit Thought Leader. We have produced over 600 episodes if you miss any of them including today's Nonprofit Power Week episodes and all of them throughout the course of this week. You can find the recordings on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV as well as Vimeo. And if you were listening, you probably caught on that we are in podcasts. So listen to the Nonprofit Show wherever you stream your podcast. So Pearl, we are thrilled to have you here. You are not new to Julia and myself, but you are new as a guest. So welcome, let me first say welcome and thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's so much fun to be on and to start off Nonprofit Week. So thank you for having our whole team this week. Absolutely. Your team is really interesting, incredibly different from different parts of the country, but they all have been able to take the cause selling cycle into their lives and into their life's work. And so that I find very interesting because even though you have a cycle in a system, which were the eight step cause selling cycle, it might seem really intransigent and firm and you have to do it, but I find that you can make it your own and you can really make it fit to your personality. Do you think that's accurate? Absolutely and I'd say that's what's so important. About the cycle that most people, most fundraisers who haven't seen it before often will say, oh my gosh, I'm doing a lot of this already. It just ensures you don't miss a step. So when you're cultivating that donor, what if you forgot to ask critical questions then you get to the ask. You don't wanna be surprised or blindsided. So the purpose of it is to provide infrastructure and intention so that you can then make it your own like you said and customize it for each donor. Okay, so just to let everybody know, so if you're frantically watching or listening and trying to write all this down, at the end of the episode, we'll give you information so that you can get back to all these things that we're gonna be sharing this week because it's a lot and Jared and I understand that and so Fundraising Academy has been very generous in sharing the information that we're giving through their portal and then of course, on our archives. But in terms of the eight step cause selling cycle, today we're really gonna be talking about prospecting and pre-approach and what's gonna be really interesting is that we're gonna be actually talking about the questions that we need to ask. Okay, start with that, explain that to me. So it's funny because one, step four is need discovery. So you think that's all the questions you need to ask but actually there are so many questions you have to ask along the way and phase one, prospecting and pre-approach, it's everything you do before your donor meeting. You don't wanna go into that meeting. Again, you don't wanna be blindsided. You want to have the information that you need to really be able to navigate that first conversation, know how to make a good first impression, what motivates them to give, what might be a trigger for them. So that's what we're gonna talk about. Some of the questions before you even meet that donor to be sure that you're ready for that conversation. It's so important. And one thing you said, Pearl, and I know Julia, we've said this with Tony, is like, man, we wish we had this model 10, 15, 20 years ago and you're right, Pearl, we've probably been doing some of it but to have this in a system has made my life so much easier. And I always brag about the Madden test and that that is a fantastic component of the cycle. So let's do get into some of these questions because you've got some good ones for us here. So, Pearl, one of the first things is to ask, you're asking the donor, how did you find out about the organization? And it seems to me like, we should know that but maybe we don't know that. And it's such a good question. And just noting that some of these questions before you even start to reach out for that information, you wanna look at your CRM first because a lot of these questions can actually be answered using your own technology. Let's say someone, one of your former fundraisers met this donor at an event and that's how they became involved or perhaps their peer to peer campaign, they volunteered. So you may have this information before you even reach out to the donor or start doing external research but how they found your organization can really help you better understand what is their connection to your organization? Are they actually interested in your cause? Why are they interested in your cause? And then what type of introduction do you need to do that's not duplicative or redundant? It's interesting. So I hadn't looked at this in this way, Jared. I don't know if you thought of this either but using that CRM and going back it's not just that one-on-one. Right. It's really interesting to me. It's a big tool and it's one that I always preach to say, put it in the database, put it in the database and Pearl, if you have any tricks on how to get people to put it in the database. I do, please share. It's so important. So actually before I joined Fundraising Academy as a development professional, I was one of the main prospectors at my organization. And so I lived in, we used Razor's Edge. I lived in the database. And I would say after doing the research, if you have the authority to better understand how people use the database in your organization, what functions they like and what you can improve, the goal is to make it easy so that someone who's meeting after meeting can they add an action item through their cell phone? Do they have the attributes, right? The backend attributes to be able to actually make that action item and make it. This was a donor meeting. This was a solicitation. This was not a solicitation. So I would say find out what helps the fundraisers at your organization that can be scalable and then actually make those changes and just continue to talk about it on a daily or weekly basis with your team. Did you enter your action items? Did you schedule a time to enter your action items? There's so many things you can do. Yeah, because it really can get overwhelming. But to have this information in your database, I think it also shows well to the donor that you have shared this institutional knowledge and you're showing up educated and informed with the donor. But I love the questions that you've provided. So what about, I'm curious about that strategic plan because I saw that in there, our mission, our vision, our values, even that strategic plan, what are some other examples that maybe we wanna ask our donors? So I like this question and I think what's important about it as you're kind of what you're getting at is diving even deeper. What about the mission or what about the strategic plan? For example, perhaps there's one program that they're really connected to because maybe they have a personal connection or a story, a narrative that connects to it. So with your strategic plan where your organization is going, can they align with that? If not, is there something else that they can align with? Or is it something that, recognizing the organization, you're the expert on your program, they're the investor, is there something that you can do that supports your community? Perhaps they have even some new ideas that could even enhance what you do. So I would say these questions are so important because you better understand what it is that your organization is doing that aligns with them that they will support and perhaps some opportunities to even potentially enhance what you do, putting your community first, of course, and what they need first so that you can be successful. You know, I'm interested with question number four because you're asking them to talk about other nonprofits that they've invested with or engaged with. I think a lot of times we're afraid to do that because we don't wanna move the attention off of ourselves. So it was really intrigued by that. Can you share with us how that works? Yes, and actually I'll share the way that I used to do this was first through wealth screening system. So if you have access to that, it's all public records and you can actually see what organizations they've given to or served on boards. That is also, usually they also give if they're on a board assuming they have the capacity, which they do if they're a prospective donor. But so use wealth screening, Google, you can research this. If they have been referred to you talking to that referral source or people you know who know them, other fundraisers in your organization may know them or board members. So this question is a great question to ask later in the cycle when you're actually meeting with them face to face because it shows them that you're interested in them and what they care about. You're not just there, I mean, obviously they know why you're there, but you're not just there to talk about yourself. You really want to know what they care about. And then when you start the presentation phase of really telling them about your cause, you will be more informed and they will know that you've heard them and you care about what they really care about and what drives them to give. I love the fact that you're honoring them because it really is our job to keep the donor's best interest in mind and to ask what's important to them is fantastic. Might you also ask about how they have been recognized by other organizations or does that happen later in the cycle? So that's a great question. I would say both. If you're speaking to them, my suggestion based on my experience would be that's later in the cycle, more in the needs discovery when you're trying to better understand how they like to be stewarded and engaged. I always like to ask my donors, how do you, first of all, how do you like me to connect with you? Do you like to be recognized for your gift? Here's some examples. Like you said, what have you enjoyed in the past with other organizations? What has been meaningful? Now what I do in this point in the cycle, I research, I look at nonprofits. Once I know who they've given to, I Google that name, the donor name and try to see how they've been recognized to give me some context. And if I see some trends, that gives me some good ideas. Sure. Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah, and I know I've seen some donors, you know, very, very generous donors and they'll have press releases or news articles and things like that. And so it really just depends on each individual, I suppose, but bringing that up and talking about other organizations, as Julia said, you know, I think some of us might be fearful because now we're shifting our focus and conversation elsewhere, but I do believe we can glean a lot from that conversation. So I appreciate you bringing that up in this prospect. And I'll just share quickly that if you've done your research and you know what organizations they support already, you can find those that are more aligned and lead the conversation with those so that you don't derail. So having that information equips you to have a more intentional and focused conversation and be ready to bring it back to what you do. Correct. Yeah. I think that's really interesting. And I also want to get you to share with us some questions. And I feel like this maybe might be one of those things that's multi-generational or inspirational. And it deals with family and community and beliefs and values that might not be so apparent. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. I mean, is it too personal? Is it like, what does it look like when you ask these questions? So you'll be able to gauge with each donor how personal you can get. So again, these questions are not one-size-fits-all. Again, I know I keep saying it, but you'll have done your own research and knowing that a lot of these you can answer by asking people that they're close to to also better understand how personal you can get. But what these questions really help you do is one, to determine what connections could they have with your organization? What about their life creates this alignment with the work that you do and the impact that you have so that when you look at your own organization, what programs or features of your organization do you think would be the most, they'd have the most propensity to give to and that you should leave with? So this, you can answer this by sometimes there are articles that are written about these donors, whether it's about their personal life, maybe their professional life or who they've given to, like you said, generational giving. Have they engaged in generational giving and usually there is a lot of publicity around that. So it just helps you understand, is this an alignment? Because again, phase one is about qualifying. If you're seeing through your research that there is not an alignment, that doesn't mean you stop, but that does mean perhaps you think about how much time you invest in that donor. So this is helping you qualify and determine am I seeing a lot of connections or maybe there's another organization that would be a better fit because I can find another potential prospect to invest that time in. So let me ask you this question because there are topics that are really hard to talk about personal impact. So let's say you're going before a potential donor and you are an art museum or the symphony, a cultural organization, that's a lot different than talking to somebody about domestic violence or sexual abuse. What does that look like? Oh, that is such a good question. That's a great question. I would say when you're thinking of, when you represent arts and culture, an organization like an art museum, talking about for me, what's so important no matter what your causes is the long-term impact. So one, also now when you think about perhaps domestic violence, that's why research is so important. If there's, you wanna be sensitive in the way that you approach it. Thinking about, maybe not asking, have you been impacted by this, obviously, but perhaps talking about, this is the people that we serve that come through our doors, this is where, this is what we do. This is what we've seen, the long-term impact. Is there any way, what do you think about that? How does that make you feel? There are ways to ask questions that allow them to open up, allow them to be safe. You can share a personal story if that's what makes you comfortable. Because again, the way that you act will help them take a step closer. And if they choose not to share, they choose not to share. But you can tell by their verbal cues or non-verbal cues, if they're interested in leaning in, then you know, you can keep going. But again, talking about the long-term impact, the success stories and the opportunity you have with an even deeper investment. And then give them that space if they choose to lean in and do the same. Great advice, because you're right, that's not always easy. And I feel like, you know, whether it has happened at anything really, you know, this impact in life happened as an adult or in their childhood, I see a lot of philanthropy come from, you know, what an individual saw their parents go through. And that can be touchy as well. So thank you for that advice there. Yeah, that's powerful. You know, it's hard to believe because we don't have a lot more time, but a lot of times- Those fast girls. It does. We have so many questions. I mean, we're talking about questions for our donors, but then we have questions for you. Talk about kind of this aspect of understanding another level and a deeper level as we kind of finish up our time with you. Yes, so this next question, again, you are qualifying. You are finding the information you need before you approach this donor. So you wanna be sure that the donor that you're approaching is the person who will be making the decision about the ask and that everyone who's involved is in the room. If you go down this cycle, so now you've qualified, you haven't really determined, is this the person who will make the decision? You start the need discoverer, you ask questions, present your cause, they are all in. And then you get to the ask and they say, oh, you know what? My mom really is the one who makes this decision. I should have her. Now you're starting over and that's an investment of your time, of your organization's resources. So do that research, make sure you know who needs to be in the room. And you also wanna be sensitive about that. You don't wanna make the assumption that the person is not supposed to be in the room. So there are ways to say that as, who do you want to be involved in the decision? Should I work with you? Is there someone else you'd like to engage? I want to be sure that I'm taking advantage or not taking advantage. I'm respecting your time. And I want to be sure that I'm engaging anyone you'd like me to engage. Again, research. If someone is always making a gift with someone else, that they're always being recognized with someone else, make sure that they're still alive. That's really important before you ask about them. But that's another way that you know. But be sure before you start the approach that the people in the room are the ones making the decision. Yeah. And now I feel, we talked about the generational giving. It could be more than one person. Is that right, girl? Absolutely. Yeah. So do you prospect them just the same? Do you do your best to get all of them in the conversations as you continue the cycle? I do. And one other thing I'll mention, especially when you have multiple people, some tricks, if you can, you wanna have two fundraisers in the room because sometimes one person might not connect with you but they'll connect with someone else and the other might connect with you. So that's just, if you can do that, if your organization has the resources or you wanna bring a board member and make sure that they're fully equipped and ready and trained. So that's one thing, but definitely research all of them. You don't wanna be surprised if they have completely opposite preferences at giving goals. You wanna know all of that before you meet with them so you can tell your presentation to each of them because they're each an individual and they're looking to you to speak to them. I'd love that you use that giving goals because that's a great way to kind of pull it all back in and say, look, we do have goals and we're philanthropic investors, we have goals and we should understand that to see if there is an alignment. It goes kind of back to your very first questions. How did you learn about us and what do our mission, vision and values look like in terms of your mission, vision and values? Really interesting. I wanna make sure that we let everybody know, I mean, this is like there's fundraising academies process is so intense, it has so many aspects and you have a new learning portal where you actually drill down on these donor questions. It's remarkable. It hasn't been up very long, has it? No, we launched it in late March, officially in April and it has been these donor conversation questions are, they're not new to us because they've been part of our textbook and our content but this delivery is new. And I love these basically as we talked about there are questions that you need to ask at every step of the cycle. Who you ask and how you get that information varies and what these donor conversation questions are they're downloadable. You can go into each of them or download all of them at once fully free. The whole portal is completely free. You can log in at any time and get like you said, the Madden test, the prospect qualification worksheet but what these questions do is if you're about to go into a meeting with a donor and you just need some ideas for questions you can just open up depending on where you are in the cycle, open these up, print them, save them on your phone and just have them as backup to feel like you know how to keep that conversation going and get the information you need. And I'll add- So very generous. Thank you. And just so you know as you click in each one it also gives you tips on how to get that information. So it might be a question from a donor. It might be through research. So we just give you some guidelines around that. This is amazing. Well, it's really, it's just a new way to look at things Pearl. That I love that you and your team are sharing with us for an entire week. It's really an exciting opportunity for us because we're gonna be taking all of these phases within the cause selling cycle and really looking at what those questions can be and what those conversations can be. And so every day this week, it's going to be different. We'll have different folks on. I mean, Pearl, I'm so grateful that you kicked this off. You and I worked a lot together. Yes. It's really fun to get you in front of our viewers and listeners because this is just an amazing thing. Again, go to fundraising-academy.org. It will lead you into their portal. So much of what you have is free. It is incredibly robust and well thought out. Again, Jared said this, if we'd had this, I'm older than Jared. If I'd had this 30 years ago, 40 years ago, my community would be different because I would have raised more money undoubtedly. And so I was thinking those questions. What a great opportunity to share that resource with board members who are often really timid and uncomfortable soliciting. I mean, that gives them wonderful resources to equip them to prepare for these conversations. So you're right, Julia. If we had had this, but now we do and now's the time to make the difference. A bigger difference. A bigger difference. It's so true. Pearl Hogan, Director of Fundraising Academy at National University, we are thrilled to be sharing this knowledge. We are thrilled that you give this knowledge out to our communities and to our fundraisers. It's really, it's just remarkable. You also, before I let you go, if you could share with us a little bit about your cause selling accelerate. You've done this before, right? We have, we have offered this. It's a fundraising certificate program. We offer 49 CFRE credits and we have offered this program for six years now. It is a, this version of it is a 10 week course. It's cohort based. You go through live sessions with about 30 other peers from around the country to really hone in on the entire cycle, social styles, time management and just key skills to be a really successful thriving fundraiser and to grow as a leader in the field and develop a really close network of peers as well. So this does have an enrollment fee. It's 10 weeks. It's led by Hannah Berger. Is that correct? Yes, Hannah will be teaching it and she will be on, on Friday. Yes, Friday ask an answer. I'm excited to have Hannah on. Good, so you can learn more about that. Again, if you go in through their website you'll be able to find more specific information about this. Let me ask you this. Is there an application process so that everybody's kind of determined to be if they're gonna be a good fit or is it just sign up? There is, like you said to really support that cohort environment we want to be sure that everyone knows what to expect in the course. So that we, like you said we can set the right expectations and they can have the best experience. So it's a quick application probably, well, 20 minutes. It's all relative. It's about 20 minutes. There is an enrollment fee once you are accepted and then we hope to have you started though. Sessions start on September 30th or 13th. 13th, yeah. And then it's 10 weeks. Is it, it's a 10 consecutive weeks or are they, are they broken up? We skip one week for the holidays for Yom Kippur but it's other than that it's consecutive and there is out of session work. So there is a bit of a commitment. Our goal is that a lot of that work is a part of your daily role that a lot of it is just changing the way that you do your daily fundraising the way you prospect, research, everything. Fantastic. I'm really excited. Well, thank you for sharing that with us because, you know, again, Jared and I know all about training. We're always into that. And this is a great way to get with your peers and understand how you can really live the process. So we'll, we'll get back into that. I think even more as the week goes on. Again, I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd herself. We are so much a supporter of what you all do at National University Fundraising Academy. It's really, it's truly remarkable. We also wanna make sure that we think all of our presenting sponsors here with us for Nonprofit Power Week. It's a special week where we drill down into one topic for an entire five day run. We don't do this very often. It only happens a couple of times throughout the year. And so this is really a special week for us. Again, we wanna thank Blue Morang, the American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit nerd, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique and Nonprofit Thought Leader. These are the folks that come to us each and every day to support all of our content so that we can get really interesting information and unique information out to our sector. Okay, wow, Jared, I'm really pumped up for the week. Me too, it's super exciting. As you said, we've got guests coming on from Fundraising Academy each and every day this week and ending with Hannah Berger on Friday. So I'm here for it, ready to get super nerdy. So thank you, Pearl, for kicking us off on this mon-yay because Friday gets all the fun. Well, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. I'm so honored and definitely looking forward to future appearances. Well, it's really fun. And it's, again, as we started off the day, I find that this system is really natural. And you made this comment. It was so interesting. A lot of fundraisers will say, well, shoot, I'm already doing that. You know, I mean, it's just that it's organizing it. It's making it more natural. And then where you stumble or you fall, I think for me, it helps me figure out why it didn't work, like what we could have done better. And so it's really powerful. Again, check out fundraising-academy.org and you will find the amazing amount of information that they have on their website. Okay, are you ready for tomorrow? Jared Ransom? I am ready, yes, thank you. Well, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Hey, as we like to end every episode, we want to remind our viewers, our listeners, and ourselves to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow.