 what I would like to start with her is just to say old is no go in modern leadership. So out with the spreadsheets, out with the PowerPoint, out with the meetings where you have to come and tell what have you done the last three months, six months, nine months to help the strategy, because who win that battle every time in the executive room or the board room or wherever it is. That is of course those guys who come with the best PowerPoints, but it's not about that. And it should not be necessary to meet just to get an overview of how we're doing a strategy. You don't call every people from all departments once a month and tell them how much money have you spent and how much have you earned. You have a balance sheet, of course. You have a real-time overview. So welcome to Transmission Talk. I'm Thairu Hassan, the director of Brightline at the Project Management Institute, PMI. Today really what we'll try to discuss here is how this transformation to modern strategy governance has become a reality. How companies can succeed in engaging the whole organization to create momentum and transparency and become much faster to adapt and also adjust when change happens. And I couldn't find a better person to discuss the topic with you today. That's why I would like to welcome, and it is a privilege actually for us to have Fleming Bidirikse, CEO and co-founder of Decide Act with us. Fleming is one of the world leading experts in strategy execution management and working with strategy design implementation, cultural change for nearly three decades in organization worldwide. Fleming has been a trusted strategic advisor and executive coach for top business and organization leaders. Fleming, as you will see, is committed to modernizing strategic leadership with the help of technology. He has spent the past 10 years mapping how to create the optimal infrastructure for successful strategy implementation. He is also the author and co-author of several books and publications on this subject. Thank you very much Thairu, and I'm looking forward to share what I'm thinking. So let's go directly into it and please in the end channels we use all kinds of opinions and questions. I do not think there's a right way here, there's many ways. So the title of today is basically out with old and in the new. And how do we really make strategy happen? The fact is that we have executed strategy almost the same way I monitor it since the 1950s when it really become a business discipline. So I would try to tap a little bit into that, a little bit into why we have gone the way we have gone with what we're doing and how we're trying to make this in a new way. I am very aware of that there could be many other ways to do this. So first of all, but to set the scene because there's also many opinions on what is strategy execution and what is strategy execution management. So my take on this is that the purpose of SAM or strategy execution management have to be built on two very important pillars. And of course many of you are very familiar with the part because you don't make a strategy if it's not to change the business. And the change of the business is of course very often how can we grow the business or how can we maybe renew ourselves or reinvent ourselves and a lot of companies had to do that during COVID. But the other part which is just as important that is basically strategies also about running the business and optimizing the current operations. How can we make the argument more efficient? How are they ready to receive the transformation projects for changing the business? So strategy execution management is also a way of have a whole system approach. So the way I think about an organization is like a living system. And your strategy execution should kind of cover that to make sure everything can interact and work very well together. So and some of you might know Antonio Nieto which I'm going to quote a couple of times here, the former president of PMI. We wrote a white paper together a couple of years ago and used this model from his new book. We had also kind of say what is all this about? Where one side when it's about changing the business that's all about to start bottom up with what do we need to do in the different projects? And on the other hand what are the big perspective? I come back to that as just to that's kind of how I see how in capture the strategy execution management. So why? So why really change and establish modern strategy execution management? I mean many of us or many organizations have the last almost three years now maybe been hit by a perfect storm as well. You know we had COVID which was a crisis for many organizations, societies and have a lot of influence, a lot of people. Just in the tail of that we got a war in Ukraine, we got a racing inflation, we got maybe ahead of us a bigger crisis coming in terms of recession. And in Europe we have also faced at least energy crisis the last six months. And that is something where also our stability in terms of you know vulnerable infrastructures has to be protected better and strategies so that is also important. So what I'm saying is everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth. That's basically what you just explained you know we are met with more and more surprises and changes from around us which we need to act on and we need to act on them quite fast. So what I would like to start with her is just to say old is no go in modern leadership. So out with the spreadsheets, out with the PowerPoint, out with the meetings where you have to come and tell what have you done the last three months six months nine months to help the strategy because who win that battle every time in the executive room or the board room or wherever it is. That is of course those guys who come with the best PowerPoints but it's not about that. And it should not be necessary to meet just to get an overview of how we're doing a strategy. You know you don't call every people from all departments once a month and tell them how much money have you spent and how much have you earned. You have a balance sheet of course. You have a real-time overview. So and why is old is not working well Brightline had documented that pretty well. Martin Rief from Boston Consulting as well saying that three out of four strategies they do not reach their goals or are not getting executed or partly not reach their goals. And at Brightline for a couple of years ago also documented that about three million US dollars is wasted every minute in strategies that are not executed. Probably something many of you are familiar with but my point here would be that means if you invest 100 million in new strategic changes or transformation projects or where you're taking your business then 75 percent of that or in other words 75 million is on the risk of not creating any value risk of delivering zero value and all what strategy execution is about is of course to achieve the intended value of the strategic effort. So we need to think about sustainability when it comes to strategy execution. So the classic problems is of course because we are manual and that means it can be difficult to have a systemic approach and have a very structured alignment how to be we can execute our strategies. The follow-up is maybe it's exaggerating a bit but it's kind of it was in the 50s and the 60s and 70s you know it's old-fashioned it's manual it's not tangible. We should be able to know exactly how it is right now at this moment how we're driving not only know where our KPIs are but what is executed where are we under risk and all that and maybe the worst part of it is that employees they have no clue how they can contribute. How could I maybe say that or claim that? Well the different service shows that 95 percent of all employees they have no clue what their company strategy is about and if they have no clue how should they then be able to contribute. So you will need a modern way another way to engage people in this it's not enough just for the big speeches about now this is our strategic priorities you have to make it relevant for me have to know how I can contribute. The result of this is that people like yourself me and people in boards and executive rooms we basically do not have an overview what's going on. It's not satisfying that we are not in control of the business future at least where we're heading with it. So the old thing is also we had a we had a poll here and I can see the room here is much more professional than an average one of the first global maturity survey on strategic execution shows that that can be downloaded for our work page as well shows that that only about 20 percent or 25 percent of all organizations they have some kind of digital tool so in this room here or this meeting it's the double of that but it also says that the surveys that there are that survey that 80 percent they have no tool for monitoring the strategy or the service two years old so if the numbers we got here today is reality then then of course it had grown 30 percent since then that's fantastic and only very few organizations have make a distinction between running and changing the business in the strategy effort and maybe worse of it many organizations they devote 60 to 100 percent of all their resources to running the business you cannot change the business you cannot deploy a strategy without allocating resources but of course you know need to know where they are and understand if you hesitate if if you risk wasting 75 percent of them the good news is maybe that that the best performing organizations they both have a strategy execution management office and a PMO office and half of those who were in this survey have that either or so a little bit about the old and how it is so if I should give my take on what is strategic or serious strategic governance and leadership then then I think it has to become digital you have to have a real time over you you have to know what's going on of course you have to integrate with our systems but you also have the best possibility for an infrastructure to engage people at any level at at any level at your organization why is that important because we need to be able to make quick decisions we want to have early warnings on where can we earn more money and we have a losing money where our project or strategy is going off track we need to know it now so we can adjust that's a natural way of executing and that means we can adopt along the way as all of you here know strategy is not we make a plan now and then we follow it you know every day in five years we have to adjust many times how do we get there like like other roadblocks and things we need to go around so my proposal for people is that think about deploying a DPS for your strategy unfortunately most leaders they do not have a DPS they use a paper map and can map maximum c 100 1500 feet feet ahead you know you know none of you will walk around right now as a visitor you know with a paper map try to find your way that's the way we run our business strategy most of us we have not an overview where we're going we have no possibility to look around corners we have no possibility to predict we should of course have that a modern tools can help with that and just to quote Antonio here as he said that that you know it's really really difficult and and and that's natural for all of us even organization like the one I come from we of course also have our challenges when it has to come to about how do we execute strategy and how do we get an overview and of course like anything else is digitalized then we should also consider how can we digitalize one of the most important functions in the organization the strategy function this guy here he represents the Denmark's fastest growing company where I come from but he also represents Europe's sixth fastest growing fintech they have an immense growth and and it's called in pay the company the reason they have that growth is of course they are very very much focused on engaging the entire organization get people on board they know exactly where they can contribute and they are part of defining that themselves and it becomes very very dynamic and then you can early adjust you can tell your boss okay something is disturbing here so we go right on the strategy execution here okay but then it's a weird decision good so my point is the future is digital infrastructure for your strategy you could say that you need to have a for your strategy you will have a finance system for your economy like you should also have the right tool for your strategy execution you should of course deploy a digital infrastructure that helps you to monitor cross-functional engage cross-functionally top down can engage your portfolio companies or daughter companies have owner strategies everything connected not single spreadsheets of one who has to to look at that because this can enable top-down governance the whole cascading the monitoring you know which is important for board and executives but it can also enable that anyone in the organization can contribute to the strategy so if you can get people on board you know bottom-up engagement and maybe it's a buzzword but it's maybe the most important thing when it comes to business execution of the strategy get people on board so what I'm trying to say is that the top-down governance part of this is of course where we have the big transformation projects strategic choices where to play and how to win you know we have the big strategic initiatives or transformation projects and then we have a program a portfolio management on the other hand of of of strategy execution which is also where we enable bottom-up engagement that is when we as executives define what are the strategic focus for the next two three four five years what are the goals what are the most important by this and then we've asked our units or departments to contribute with very clear plans and goals at all levels and then of course follow up through our leadership and create a culture of getting things done so strategy execution management in your infrastructure have to help you with that it does meant does not make project management obsolete they're complementary for each other those kind of systems like it also complementary for the finance system or your p it has to interconnect so talking about digitalized strategy execution and all that then I have kind of five recommendations seen from from what we have learned over the years maybe on the governance part I just like to say that that what we also learned those who deploy strategic governance at the same level as I have financial governance they are the ones who will succeed a very rigid strategic governance so number one reduce complexity and reduce complexity is of course give you the ability to move fast get things digital get the spritzes out get the power points out not in the making of a strategy when we start to execute it so a digital infrastructure where you basically create simplicity have strategic hierarchies across whatever you like to have where you can dive down to every single person and why you have it's important the second good advice here we would like to give is decide quickly and and one of the four big ones McKinsey and company they have documented that those who are deciding quickly they will outperform their competitors and that means they will be five times as innovative they'll be have three times as much growth the health of the organization will be three times higher the employees three times more happy financial performance is two and a half time better and they are more resilient two times so just take that into consideration when you're thinking about how are you running things how do you make it visible for your board and executives and agile execution of course equals you need to have an urgency mapping what's coming up what's going on what's off track what are the risks and you need to see it now so you can act on it right now but back to the people and back to Einstein I think he said the most clever quote for strategy execution ever nothing happens until something moves because why are we talking about all this today we have to make things move we have to engage people so they can make things move it's about acting efficiently and if you know where you have to put your priorities then you will of course be much more efficient and you will cut out the things which is not important which is another issue with strategy execution to the point that makes things move and have a quick overview of things of course you will have my page for people where they can follow what's important for them and they can quick see your views and this is a well platform by the way but but where you the different charts will engage you what has to happen but to succeed the strategy and have a fourth recommendation I travel quite many many days a year and I prefer the pilots they are not using paper maps to find the way from Europe to where I'm not to run to as example I like that they have a lot of instruments in the cockpit where they can track consistently they can calibrate to weather they can calibrate to unforeseen things even you know sometimes when it's rather very bad weather then of course all the GPS and tracking system will put the flight nicely down on the ground and the pilot will not touch anything because then the risk goes wrong we are going the same way with strategy execution we need to monitor we know need to know what's going on we need to be able to look ahead we need to be able to compare things we cannot do that in spreadsheets real time knowing what's going on what just changed a minute ago so real time strategic overview extremely important and we need to have confidence in our data where we have capital risk and if you're a military organization then you of course look both on confidence level and risk and stuff like that and combine those things but most important maybe again I said that maybe a couple of times but very important is of course we adapt seamlessly and that's much easier if everybody have an overview that's transparency around how things are going on then we can actually much easy adapt to the situation and even people accountable for things will know what's going on and then adjust by themselves so and of course we have to try to predict the outcome so we also know very early oh here's something we might need to to uh to understand because modern infrastructures for this they have of course different systems who look into the organization's execution culture so they can see how efficient is it where are their risk of failing and all sorts of things like that so all this is about two things should we keep old versus new and and of course that's a choice I'm not saying spreadsheets are not good for anything I'm just saying we should really think about how can we have a new approach to execution and get our executives to take this very very seriously because also it will change the leadership so the last few things I want to say it's actually makes it a lot easier if you work on infrastructure and it makes decision much more clearly if you have a good decision mandate and of course you will need to work on having access 24-7 and then clear lines of communication very simple principles to succeed with execution and real-time overview 24-7 of course we will have to have healthy meetings as you have all the time get people engaged and get the things done we view it and all that but instead of meeting to talk about what have we done then we talk about what should we do with the current situation because we have the overview and each employee of course can know how they should work those things where they're contributing where they can do more less and all that so it's important for us both to be able to look into the past and see and compare how we do now the last ones last year whatever at the same time where we are trying to drive the business towards the future with a lot of help from digital one of the things I see for C coming also with what we are working with is that AI and other things will start to influence your strategy making process so when you start to feed systems with your strategic priorities or pillars whatever then it would over time start to suggest you maybe have to look into this KBI or those who have focused on that in the past you know they did not have so much luck all these things is going to influence the way we are working with execution but most important of course engage the entire organization that will make you succeed especially if they can see how they can contribute it makes it possible to cover cross-function and as I just mentioned before it's all about data we have to trust the data you know not base our strategic decisions and corrections on assumptions but let's just have real-time data that can help us to make the right decisions of course we need to have data and what are we doing what are we executing how is our goals and KPIs doing also have to distinguish between strategic goals and KPIs what are the risk factors influencing us and all sorts of things all that is of course possible if you go digital so I think it's time to prepare for the new and and look into how would be the right way to do this and of course I'm happy to discuss that and hear your opinions on that if you think about the company like like the one I represent the site acts we work across all industries we have anything from the national church of Iceland as a client till parliament's insurance companies FinTech biotech manufacturing companies and all sorts of things it's not really about what industry you're in it's about how seriously are you taking the execution of your strategy many people say nothing happened since last year we had the strategy meetings there are two maybe good answers for that one is yes it's correct nothing happened because we never got to the execution very seriously the other part is it might not have been monitored so nobody knows what happened which is also a fact in many cases that was my short input to how I see digitization of strategic execution of course there'll be a lot more about AI and how that will influence that but let's make strategy work to talk and in this quotation here you're saying the solution is not less strategy of fewer values and fewer long-term goals but rather working toward both goals with a better ability to adapt strategy along the way to be able to do this require quick action reactions decision based on real-time data and not release inability to get everyone in the organization engaged in making the strategy happen I like this quote here and I hear you also in the presentation talking about the data you know getting the data making the decision on data can you tell us more about that data gathering and making sure that you have the right data as well because sometimes people say Gigo you know Gabbage in Gabbage out so how do you handle that data gathering that and making sure that you have the right data and I think one of the things you will need to do when you look into how do you become strong at executing strategy in the organization then you should first of all carry out a diagnosis of your organization's ability to execute strategy and part of that is to of course the defining what are the pain points that can move you from being national champion to to be world champion or where we want to go and what are the things you should solve so so that's I think that's also what this is about be be aware where be good and where can be improved but then you ask about the data and of course I would answer that I think that lies in the process of that when you define your strategies you understand what data do you need one of the hardest things for most executives is actually to work with good KPIs they might be able to define or we all might be able to define what should the revenue be and what should the profit loss be and all that but if you really have to have good decision making then you also have to have good KPIs that units heads or team heads they know that's what they should focus on to deliver and if they focus on the right things they will also define the right projects transformation projects or just strategic strategic initiatives which contribute to move the the the performance part of it so so for me data comes three in three ways first of all that we are very clear where we're heading so people have a clear line of sight when they start to help to define their their strategic intent and initiatives and and not let units just work separately but it's it connected the other part is of course that that you then are serious about the monitoring then you can get data in different infrastructures by integration by api's and define you need this and that here so you get the right decision board for yourself as well so garbage in garbage out I think that's that's really the part where you qualify your strategy intent and how you engage people in it how you run that that's that's clearly and then everybody are working few against a few common goals they all know then then you'll have the right things as part of it as many other solutions to this of course but that's at least one of them thank you so much flaming and I just wanted to add two things that as you were introducing Antonio I just wanted to say Antonio was a former chair of PMI board of directors and he's a PMI fellow and in the data I mean as you mentioned every 22nd one million USD was wasted due to poor implementation of strategies and we were kind of taking it in a year it becomes about two trillion and I mean close to I mean the more than actually the GDP of Canada or I mean the GDP of Brazil and and it is actually more than the GDP of the five top economies in Africa so it is a lot of money that is wasted and organizations at least cannot afford and I mean the world should find ways of better using these resources I want to ask you maybe a more personal question here because I as you were presenting I was seeing your passion and for the topic but what is driving you why why why trying to solve this issue what is motivating you yeah a lot of things I think part of my personality is maybe also to try to solve the impossible and then believe I can do it you know and and there have been been many many many situations on this journey where we have said how to do this but I can tell you how it started we worked with with one of the world's biggest for all the biggest producer of insulin and in in in a region of 25 countries and stuff like that and we were presenting or training the executives in in strategic execution and giving idea how you can be good at that and then we also delivered you know a lot of spreadsheets a lot of power points and and the CEO and the CFO for the reason was so friendly to invite for a be in the evening and say well you're doing very well and this is very interesting but how the heck to expect us to follow up on strategy in 25 countries you're part of defining the strategy and then then we just pray to that things are done till we come back next year so I think that was we have of course many times talked about what can we do and we were inspired by financial accountability can you make it measurable quantifiable and inspired by I have philosophical background to took a while before I got into finance but but but inspired by if things are transparent then you'll have an educated discussion at your executive meetings or board meetings wherever you have them if you have a lot of blah blah you know then then well that's maybe a hard way to say it but then it's more hard to really focus on what should we talk about so what drives it is that there are so many good project managers strategic managers consultants and all that out there we just like to you know for I think sometimes it would be nice for us to more than a hammer you know when we have to get things done and we are trying to tap into that and and with our ambitions and we are learning every day for those we are working on and needs and how do we need to adapt to that I think that's what drives us just to make it it changes this it's we talk about sustainability this is also about sustainability not wasting money and I'm encouraging attendees to use the Q&A function there to ask questions there are some questions that are already coming in I want to take one which is very linked here and it's coming from Fabi and Fabi is saying it seemed like what you are proposing you are proposing a strategy strategically driven PPM system how is a PPM different from the digital platform approach that you are proposing a PPM meaning project portfolio management tool and so I think this is the difference is that that project management and and portfolio management is focused on specific portfolios and thinking how to do that and and those things integrate fine this is a whole system approach but of course there are similarities but what I would say my point or comment to this you have to use the right tools for the right topics so you don't eat soup with a fork you know you don't do your bookkeeping in a CRM system or in a spreadsheet if you want to keep the overview and I think you should run projects and project management tools and programs and you should run strategic governance and all that in specific for that so tools also have to interact and of course as Fabi is saying there are of course similarities between some of it clearly that's also why many which are very well educated via PMI should step in and take a bigger role and see the big pictures when it comes to strategy execution management because that expertise that is really something can be used the tools we are talking about here I think most of them are not solving the big cross functional things how do you make things run across the silos and drive that through and all that how do you get a full scale and all that and engage people at a level in whatever is important with strategy strategy is not only about portfolio management and projects it's much more than that wonderful in there is another question that is coming from Laurie and of course you mentioned you were mentioning at some point that you need to get people engaged and her question then he says how do you propose to combine personal performance management and strategy execution so how do you because sometimes there is a I mean the human resources tool which is personal and then you have a strategy execution for the organization so how do you I suspect that question is going the context of performance management and accountability and this so I'll let you answer that I think that that first of all I like to say when you work with will also when you work with maybe also to the former question when you work with strategy then they exist a lot of different strategic frameworks you can use balance core card okay as you can use pillars critical factors strategic focus areas enablers and all that in a modern way working in a modern platform you can figure it like you want to have it you're not follow you know you have your own way of doing it that ties into the performance management as well because part of these things are there will be things that I personally should perform on which is part of my development plan you will not use a strategy tool for that you will use another tool for that but I can of course when it comes to a strategy part of my strategic performance I might have one two three four maybe more initiatives actions I accountable for I might have one or two kbi slow and in the organization I'm accountable for so so I think it's part of the engagement most people I have met when they have the possibility to contribute strategically they say yes thank you and they like that it creates transparency not just I have told them you should do this and that and then I because I'm full of ideas and I come back in six weeks and say why didn't I get this you know six months they said but you said this and I said that so when things are well documented then you will also have another dialogue about how you're performing it's clearly what we have agreed to have deliver on strategically and diversions for that will be discussed because your map it's real time you can discuss it with your boss or your colleagues and all that you can see who you're depending on so all that don't know if it's a good answer for it but thank you thank you and I have another one here and this is more I mean I was picturing when you were talking about piloting the map and a paper map and so on and I was wondering like maybe this was the beginning and then maybe you have a compass that you use to measure the distances and to see how far you are from things and so on but things are moving so fast today so I want you to share with us how is the market maturing in the adoption of digital tool for strategy execution are you are you seeing any change because you've been you've been in the market for for some time now we are we are closing up to 10 years in this market and with our approach I think I think it's happening right now actually it's it's a quite excuse me for anyone on this call but I see many organizations are quite immature on the way they are working with strategy execution in a modern way but what I see is that comes more and more requests now for top executives and management it can be do this smarter can we keep the other tool existing that support this need two years ago we didn't get too much of that and I really have to figure out who are the pioneers of this there's still pioneers a lot in there but it becomes more normal the request for how can we get help on this in a smarter way it is raising I think it's because of the things I started this presentation with I think of course you can say COVID helped to mature many digital tools in many organizations like this but I think another thing which is really calling for this right now is okay then we have a war going on then we have crisis we have we have financial you know risk interest going up and all that as I said I think executives start to get that they need to act fast and and to be able to take the right decisions when you have to act fast and not only do decision only based on god feeling and assumptions then you would like to have some real time to know where you're heading and instead of you trying to turn the whole ship this way then you can dive down and see where are we on this strategic area that's really where we are having trouble right the other part is maybe this is more maybe a quote for why it could be important as of course early adjustment and all that but when you have been sick because organizations which have been through crisis you can see you can compare them to human systems people that are sick right so when you have survived your sickness it doesn't mean you're fit then you have to recover and to make fast recovery so to become fit again then if you again can be very focused and to the point of structure you can drive your organization to that point in a completely different way so I think the adoption is coming because of vias executives have that pressure need to do things clever more clever we need we have transformed everything else in the organization we are streamlined we have optimized we are digitalized everything except from the strategy office accept the thing that has to help us to exist in two three four five years I like I like the analogy here when you recover from a illness doesn't mean that you're fit you need to do something you need to prepare yourself and then of course be able to also withstand withstand the next crisis of course if I take the same analogy as as part of the sickness maybe you develop some some some resistance as well so that in the next round you'll be better prepared to to to face some of the challenges that I've talking about this I want to shift maybe I I'm hearing I'm seeing a question from Elvis and Elvis Simon and he's he or he's asking I think again sometimes I need to be careful using the gender but the question is how do you deal with vagaries of the political cycle in strategy execution within a public sector setting so the question is more I know when we were we were talking last year with the conference on energy and so on so in the public sector how do we supply it applies very well first of all I would say whether you're private or you are public then to have an digital infrastructure that sets the way you do it you control the logic your business work with the strategy and all that that helps everyone and makes it easier to engage to people if you look at the public sector right now we we we have a lot of collaboration with utilities and some places in the world utilities are owned by municipalities and that means that that there's a big need for also let the citizens know what's going on so when you work this way you can also visualize what are you doing and specifically right now there's a lot attention to climate at the conference we had in November in David Miller former mayor of Toronto was also speaking about all the challenges because you know 75 percent of all all our global warming issues they come from the big cities because that's where people live so part of the thing is when you talk about public sector then most municipalities globally they are committed to live up to the Paris convention as an example which is about how do we get global warming down and all that and have a lot of things going on for political reasons some political people like to say okay how can we be visible for our citizens what we're doing for the other reason is it's not enough just to measure a few you know a few scientific KPIs on CO2 emission and all that what really is interesting what are we doing to change this and we can map that and see that effect so that's one way public sector can use it another thing that we are we are working with some ministries and also a parliament is of course how do you control those big rollouts of projects as an example we have one thing going on now where where you kind of have a master's strategy and then you have 173 institutions who basically needs to do the same thing 320 of something things and it never happens through the municipality because half of them don't do it they don't have the overview then you can roll it out and you can change in the master with change down there but all aggregation of what they're doing coming up so it gives you a completely other other visibility but maybe most important we have a few places where it actually I would say where it's proven it supports the democracy because when you have a city council or regional council whatever or bigger political programs for a part of let's say Ontario or something like that then decisions are made how do we connect from that priorities through the administration getting things done that makes a completely visible what are we doing to actually achieve these things a classic thing I think I have some years ago I spoke with a treasury board here in Ontario and they said what would be wonderful is when we do not when political do cost cutting then we take back 2% of something then we allocate it to three new things we send the money back and they go out to the same offices and those people in those offices they will they will do exactly what they've done all the time you have no chance to follow how is this the political priorities strategic priority actually what kind of things are you now doing to make that moving except for maybe a goal that people have to be better to write a speak Danish or English or whatever so it can play a big role there and then I think most public sector have issues like big corporates with all the cross functional things how do we get across all the steel pipes you know and make things work there so that's another part sorry long answer no thank you so much thank you and I I'll bring in the next question from Kevin Kevin has been very active actually in the chat sharing that he was able to develop a local the solution to help his organization actually address the challenge but later on there was any IP solution that came in so the question coming from Kevin is what are your views on using local no code development solution and a citizen developer strategy to enable organization to build customize and maintain their own strategy executions solutions best use an approach to buy of the shelf third party as a solution I believe very much in in in collective intelligence first of all and and I'll be part of running big things that my colleagues have in in terms of where you look in a society or things and how can you can you create the collective intelligence on things so I appreciate actually that effort quite a lot but I can also say to Kevin we but we are also in our case we are of course a third party solution and what I'm representing on this where we are of course building something where we are trying to to serve this and of course part of a company's growth also like ours can of course be there what should be what should be what should be public code and what should be ours and all that and how do we go about that so so I think it's a good idea and I really appreciate all those people that are developing things we are right now working together or with another which is a public code or where for something that supports climate and stuff like that then you easily can integrate with I think we have a shared responsibilities to do this but of course we are also a listed company so we are in my case we also are responsible to deliver at a certain point some money back to the shareholders and I just want to share with also the participant that PMI has developed a citizen developer learning opportunities where people can understand what what's the local no code what looks like and how to put a governance around it and so on so people can learn more on that learning because of course there need to be some consolidation there need to be ways of using the the the talent that people have in organization let's move to one one question and I'm glad like many questions are flowing in for this one I will try to combine really the question that Patrice is asking and culture the cultural shift we've we've another question that is more about the governance in organization and this one I want to to help us also because sometime we can talk but people meet we will need to hear maybe concrete example and so on so if you are looking at some of your most successful clients how do the governance model typically change after introduction of the tool a strategy execution tool like a platform like yours and if you can share an example let's say on the leadership side and also on the cultural and mindset side that Patrice is mentioning in the question so culture wise I think to have an infrastructure where things become transparent and all that that that means also you can engage the people all level but it is also a cultural change to implement something like this because we had one client in France as an example after nine months of use they come back and say your your software doesn't work oh you say why nobody's updating anything I'll get no data okay so the first question was so have you do you ever look at the status in your one two ones it was the CEO who said that with the people who refer to you he said no I do not we do not have it on the leadership meetings he said maybe the first question is would it be worthwhile considering that so that's a very simple part of the cultural change he said yes it is and and he started doing that that means okay now he's the people referring to him will start to ask the people below them and say okay we need to get updated it's important as we take it up in the meetings so that's an example of a cultural shift in leadership you know you get the plural infrastructure you want to but if you don't take it in your leadership style nothing will happen so that would be be one part an example of another client we have it's a real tail chain where I think they are they had one goal which was to to to make people and culture make people just as important competitive assets and as all the goods on the shelves and and what they did is they of course run a four-year strategy on that specifically they went from having difficulties to get people to people queuing to work in the stores the academics want to work in that organization they got rewarded for all their their their things they were doing or the leadership and all that but what they also have done now they took and took each of the stores and the head of strategy and and head of HR they went to all the stores they did a culture survey and how things were going took each of the store and then they had all the employees to discuss okay this is results how it looks by you so what do you think you would like to do here in your store to make a it a better place to work but also that you will will grow your your ability to be what you say be good at be selling and stuff like that and and and make people happy to come here and serve them better and they defined initiative and action in each of the stores which was monitored or followed up this year here they now have tied the store managers bonuses to tell how are they executing strategy in the coming years so so that's another way I can give more time if you want but yeah I know I know and the time is also running we are just about to hit the hour so I just want to again on behalf of the team and thank you so much for the time that you took to share these insight I want to thank also all attendees who have been with us here and I hope they saw the strong business case at least to have a digital infrastructure moving from the old to the new and also the governance structure that is needed and the sample a key that one could use of course when we say simple it doesn't necessarily mean that we don't maintain the rigors that is needed to move things out I did also share the book where you have a contributed in article it's the book that we just released this year so Building Resilient Organizations do take a look at it it is available in our website and in amazon as well it could be a book actually that you don't read from end to end but you look at the relevant articles and are able to gather great great insight that you can apply in your organization so as we starting 2023 I was on the right foot if you have any closing remarks filming the floor is yours and then we'll close it today thank you all for taking the time to be with us and I was seeing that all continent many countries are represented today just thank you very much I I would really hope that be here for you guys what you're doing and I think that most important is that we are taking it seriously whether we then are using PowerPoint spreadsheets on your digital tools I think that that's point number one you know so thank you very much for for being here and and challenging and listening today we hope we can learn a lot more from you in the future thank you all and have a great day