 I am here with Steve Wheeler, Earning Innovations Consultant at the Eden 2019 annual conference. Hi, Steve. Hi, Christina. Good to be here. We are here at the conference. How do you feel about it? And do you like the venue? What do you think of the program? Well, Eden for me is like a family. I've been involved in Eden since 1996, which is a long, long time, nearly 20 years. So I was with Eden almost when it was an infant, when it was growing up. And I've seen it develop over the past what almost 20 years into what it is now, which is a wonderful event every year where people get together from all around the world and they discuss and they argue and they question about all sorts of things around technology enhanced and distance learning. And for me, that's like heaven because I get to discuss with people from all over the world. And I get to hear many perspectives. So Eden has always been something that I've wanted to come to as often as I can. And I get here probably once every two years and sometimes every year just to be involved. And this year, of course, I was invited here to give the opening keynote, which was a real honor. So Eden for me is like a family. So you've been with us for quite some time now. You've been the chair of the Network of Academics and Professional Steering Committee. And you have quite a legacy here. What do you think of the current Eden chats and their future? Well, my time as chair of the Network of Academics and Professionals was quite an honor, actually. I was voted in firstly to join the panel and then three years later I was voted in to be the chair. And that for me was a great honor because it means that I got to lead some thinking around the ideas of what we wanted to do to promote Eden. And so, yes, I suppose I introduced Eden chat as a hashtag on Twitter for people to discuss in depth once every other week for a whole hour, a really important theme or an issue of distance education or e-learning. And that became quite interesting because many people from around the world who even weren't involved with Eden would join in. So that kind of extended our boundaries a bit. We introduced the YouTube channel, which is no Eden Tube, of course, which has many, many interviews like this one on it, which I think a wonderful archive of people's thinking around distance education over the past five or six years. And yes, webinars, we've introduced those. There's been a lot of innovations, I think, over the last few years. And Antonella's doing a great job now as my successor, of course. But I think that in the future, we will be richly social, I think. I think we'll still continue to meet face to face. So I think events like the event that we had last night where we drank wine and cheese together, but we also explored the idea of games, playing games as a way of learning. With Viva's library upstairs, Viva's university library upstairs, they have over 200,000 games. And I think that in itself was fascinating that you saw that many in one place. That's a huge collection. And that's inspirational to me. And I think that NAP will continue to do that kind of thing. We will continually inspire with not just online and discussions, but also face to face as well. And I think that's important. So how do you evaluate the most recent developments in ICT enhanced learning and mobile learning in particular? Do you know, I think that developments like mobile learning are largely driven by the students. And that might surprise people who are watching, who are academics. But I think that you can only set up so much yourself. Students will drive things themselves because students have the technology available. They know how to use it. It's theirs, it's their personal device. They will bring it into the classroom and they will use it for all sorts of reasons. I think that the trick for most academics, particularly those who are watching who want to integrate mobile learning into your practice, I think the point that I want to make is you've got to make it relevant for the students. You've got to make it interesting because the reason why students become distracted, and this is the biggest problem that academics throw up, you know, it's a distraction in the classroom, the reason why students become distracted is largely because they're bored. So let's make lessons more interactive, more engaging, more powerful in terms of the context and the situation of it, so that it's relevant to students. And then let's integrate these tools that they know how to use so well in, into the mix so that they're using those tools productively to learn properly, to learn deeply. So the, our colleagues in America introduced the concept of digital badges and micro-credentials as well. What do you think of their, their future? That's two different questions. I think digital badges in themselves were a good idea. I'm not so sure whether they've continued to gain impetus and whether they're still moving forward. I know that there are certain organizations that will promote digital badges. It's a great idea because you can bake into the, into the badge itself, you can bake into the badge itself, the metadata which identifies and verifies what a student has achieved. And that in itself, I suppose, is what we would call a micro-credential. So that's where the two kind of connect with each other. And I think, yes, it's a great idea, but there are probably going to be a lot of other emerging ways of doing it that will be different and even better in the future. Okay, thank you very much, Steve Wheeler.