 Welcome once again to the breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. Our next conversation is going to be on the resident doctor's strike and of course negotiations with the federal government that don't seem to be making any headway. Also, yesterday we announced that of course the river state faction of the nationalization of resident doctors has also pulled out of the strike saying that the river state government has of course made promises to them and they will go back to work. This morning we're speaking with Dr. Jerry Sogun who is the secretary general national association of resident doctors. Good morning Dr. Jerry. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. Good morning. All right, latest stories say that the negotiations are still ongoing. Yesterday of course came to another deadlock. There was no agreement. Can you give us, you know, updates on what exactly played out yesterday and where we are currently with the strike? Yeah, thank you very much. Yesterday's negotiation ended. Okasli is an honorable speaker. Honorable Tanku Sununu who is the chairman of the commission and his commission members tried to wade into the issues. But most of the issues were seemed to be put to net by different government agencies. Those in charge of regularizing employment and payment of our member activities. So as you can see, our member agencies couldn't be addressed because most of them didn't have worked for four months. They said yesterday that they needed time to re-ban the day, the process. But we were wondering if the negotiations are certainly concerned about the suffering of Nigerians. So we had to make a report at this point to record that this strike was ensued on the 2nd of August. We sent the negotiation out first to this point that the honorable speaker himself came to our presentation. We thought that all these issues would be addressed. We are members of different platforms adapted. We hope that three, six to four months like this. And we said when that paper was made, we told them the only thing to be done to prevent re-accumulation of this employee's salary. We agreed that it was possible. Since then, nothing was done. So we take this strike for them to not talk, to be safe. After another four months of accumulation of salary, people working without salary. We take another strike, you know, having met with a set value of this position. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to do this work. So now, we are saying that we need to re-evaluate, we need to do that. We need to go back to work. If you go back to work, who is going back to the work? The same people that were in four months. And we are saying that these people have said they cannot go back to work. So that was the deadlock. Help us understand what... They cannot go back to work. So in my day, this is desperate moment and desperate measures. People have been saying they want to go for this meeting, political meetings, and the other people's stakeholder that should step down. And address this issue drastically. Dr. Jerry, kindly hold on. Can you help us understand what the government's defense is here? If you're coming to negotiate, is it that they forgot the agreements that were made months ago when the strike was suspended, or they're trying to change the details of that agreement, and that's the reason they hadn't met up with the memorandum of action. So what exactly is the government coming to the negotiation table with? That's what we are saying, you know, part of the agreement after that time. You know, this issue has monetary part and no monetary part. We're not even talking about the monetary part. Because the worker deserves his wages. Where we are now, it's not the monetary state. It's the basic thing to do, to pay some of them as well. Part of that agreement was that these people that you have employed, and they have worked for you, they said they were on the platform that is no regular. What you got there? It's all over. Migrate them to the platform. Usually when you employ and people are on that platform, you migrate them to that platform, to the regular platform, where you pay salary every line, automatically. You don't need to pay manual, you yourself say it. Now, we agree that OK, pay them after the last agreement, and it was contained in the memorandum of action, that before the end of April, these people would have been captured and migrated, so that we won't have issues of what pay salary is again. This is August, that was not done. That is part of the reason why this has come again. And then they asked me to know, no, we are only migrations on people again now. It is now that those that were supposed to have done this, you are telling me, you know, the committee, they asked of the president's commission, that they have challenged you on the way the people were captured. So it is now that you want to go about revitalization of this process. You know, between that April and now, that the memorandum of action, the timeline of the memorandum of action at the last, they have been engaging you on this issue, and you did it, express all of this. You didn't even do what you are promising now that you will do. You didn't do it, give it more people. It is now that strike is over, you are saying that, we should not go on a collective strike. You will be asking of the process of revitalization of the people before you take it. But the border protection is at its worst end, before I go back to work. And then they have to know where the problem lies. So Dr Isogu, when we look at the history of the government and negotiations, right? Even if this... When we look at the history of government and negotiations with associations, and how it's still that, you know, resolutions and they breach it later on. Even if this last meeting with the resident doctors did not end in a deadlock, do you think the doctors have faith that the government will go ahead and implement, you know, the resolutions of, you know, whatever they decide? Your mind was not very clear. If I had you telling, you are talking about implementation of what is right. Exactly, yes. Yes, but what we are talking about, you know, there is too many acclimate thoughts. If there are salaries of our members, there are other issues in that agreement that is fine. As we speak today, the issue of other allowance to all Africa, all of you got aware that there were a series of meetings, you know, on this big issue. As we speak, you know, both in the German legal session and the Jewish they come in different positions. But as a government, we've not heard any pronouncements of that. The government made a pronouncement that people, that people rejected. They've just gone to sleep. And another way of COVID has come and you expect people to continue to work. You know, that's the issue. In that same agreement, there is, you know, some areas that they have, they have been going since 2014, 2014, 2016. This issue is still a contest just yesterday when discussing it and people that are supposed to have submitted they have not submitted. So we see, let's say, on the part of people on me, when you finish on a legal session and you have an agreement, they just go to sleep. So what do you think the challenge is? Doctor, you say, you say they reach agreement and then they just go to sleep. The question is why? What do you think the challenge is? For the monetary parts of the grievances of the doctors, is it that the government that they do not have enough funds to go ahead and pay salaries? Is it the insincerity of the purpose that we've heard from the NARD? What do you think the challenge is, you know, that makes there be a glitch between when the government signs an agreement and when they implement it? I'm happy to tell you. They have not come up to tell us that they don't have money. They are just bringing unnecessary growth crisis. You know, in the whole process it's a very complex. But as we speak now, what they cannot deny is that there are group of persons that have bring that services to Nigeria. These persons were paid last time because of the strike. Now we are on strike again. You are now saying about another four months. So they have not said that these people have no work. In fact, if you are saying go back to work, means these people you are saying should go to work. And we have said that this is a major factor in the ongoing brain drain that is happening in this country. So as a pre-traumatic I'm a leader today. I need to do something to understand of which kind of brain drain. One of the factors that we have identified is the way the people that are managing the X sector in this country have created. You cannot put me into action unless that needs to continue for a while. All right. So all of us need to do something urgently to stop this. As we speak, there are still a lot of problems in the sector which is contained in the community that we issue the body size. We are members of the state employees of different state governments. We are suffering. We are members of other states. We are members of other states that have been home for 19 months. People in this state have been home for 10 months. People in this state have been home for 6 months. People in other states have been home for 4 months. All right. Now we are speaking about the state government that is doing very well. The state government has done all the things that we are acting including the MRTF that we are acting for. So when we adopt this, not do this anything. I want you to react now to the river state chapter of the NAROD that has decided to pull out of the strike and go back to work. They had said that the river state government had made promises that these commitments would fulfill them. So what is your reaction to that? Is that in any way good news? What happened is, like you said, promises are not what we are acting for. And so we are going to deal with that issue when this process is over because all we want is for our members to be treated properly the way they should. So if they give promises, they should go ahead and fulfill those promises. Okay, but it's not in any way taking off steam from the purpose of the strike but you are having a chapter deciding to pull out. No, no, we are united. We are united. In our state, there is a mechanism of the obsession where it is good to deal with that. But like I said, if what they have done now is seen as a good issue, it should be reciprocated by the government. Okay, now one of the concerns we have to bring this up the concerns of the patients and those who are going to be at the receiving end I understand that doctors have been on the receiving end for many months working without pay. But I want a message from the NERD concerning patients who have to go to hospitals and don't have enough qualified medical professionals medical personnel to attend to them now that the resident doctors are on strike. For our patients we are very concerned about them and that is why the strike on medicine has been out here affordable for negotiation. We want everybody to come together and ask the people the players in the X sector to do the medical. We cannot go for a negotiation and we come out of there and yet the government is exposing their insincerity. It is a thing called for an emergency. Everybody should see that. I trust this issue. People, the government of this country should give instructions to agencies and governments that they employ to do the necessary for the sake of the Nigerian citizens. They should do what they should do. They should face the people that are caught in the strike to do what they should do. And including you in the generally, I think you should be calling these people to order because you agree with me that you will not continue to work. You cannot pay for two months. You cannot talk of four or five, six months. You will not work. You cannot answer you. Okay. Can you confirm for us when the next meeting is meant to hold and what we should be expecting from that meeting? We are going for a meeting today in terms of that. That was what was said yesterday. We are going there because we are out to get the resolution. We are going to resolve this issue as quickly as possible for the sake of our mission. So we are valid. And, you know, finally you're saying that the NRAD is not calling off the strike if the government does not fulfill the promises made in the memorandum of action and no longer promises. There has to be actual action. It's simple. The people are upset. They ask for what we are doing. They are not able to go back to work. The people are hungry. The people cannot even walk it. Look at it from that perspective. The hungry person is a hungry person. The person cannot walk it in. So that's the perspective you can't see from. Interesting perspectives there. Thank you very much, Dr. Jerry, for your time. Wow. I really wonder how long we will continue to discuss this. It's an old story. It's an old topic. Dr. Strike has to strike. I'm just going to say that. If you're thinking about how long you're going to discuss this, it's possible that you might be discussing Asu again. Or Asup again, your Sanu. There's always one or the other one. NLC might be in Katana again. You know, Strike. So it's... I remember speaking to the president of the ARD in Lagos. He mentioned was just how this affects the mentality of these doctors. And a question he asked me that really stuck with me was what sort of care do you expect from a doctor who has not been paid salaries for months, who probably has his rent due, his family needs money to feed, the abuse he needs to pay, his kids need to be in school, he's not received salaries, he's not getting income from any other source. It's from the government work he does and then he's not getting any of that. He has challenges on the home front because of that financial issue and he asks what sort of care do you expect such a person to give? I mean for a doctor to be able to dispense quality care, he should be cared for as well. And I wonder if that would be too much to ask. And seeing the trend of insincerity that these doctors are calling it on the part of the government that you sign an agreement and you go ahead to bridge that. You're asking what is the government coming to the negotiation table with? Is it what we forgot? Sorry. We need photocopies of the MOA. Help me understand what is the conversation like that we had an agreement more than 100 days ago. You signed a memorandum of understanding, you didn't fulfill any of those things in memorandum of understanding. So what else is that to discuss? So what exactly are we coming to discuss? Is it that you forgot? Or the government needs more time to implement these things or they need to renegotiate and say that some of these things might be difficult for the government to pull up now. What exactly? When they meet at that table what is the conversation like from the government side? And that's what we don't seem to be hearing and we're not also getting any feedback from the Ministry of Labor and of course Ministry of Health. We're not getting any answers from them to understand what exactly went wrong with those negotiations and if any other body because it was in the news not long ago might be considering going on another strike. So when they make these promises what exactly happens between making the promise and the next strike? And you know when you go back to negotiation table do they get back and say, ah long time we're back again. What exactly goes on? I can't wait for... I can't wait for Nigerians to begin to experience leadership where the government says we will solve this and they actually solve it for now. That doesn't seem to be happening. This is where we wrap up the Wednesday morning edition of the breakfast. Thank you very much for being with us and for spending your time with the show this morning. If you missed out on any of these conversations please do catch up on PLOS TV Africa's social media handles simply at PLOS TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram similar to our YouTube channel and also the new YouTube channel at PLOS TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Osau Gie of Bawang. And I am Annette Felix. Bye bye.