 Okay. Just Alex, when you're ready, make sure you announce that it's being recorded. Yep. I got a little warning reminder. Okay. So Kathy Shane has a conflict for the beginning of this meeting. So as vice chair, I'll be acting as the chair until she joins us. So seeing a quorum of the committee, I'm calling the meeting to order at 715. Pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. This meeting of the JCPC committee is being conducted via remote participation. I'm going to call on each committee member by name and have you confirm you're here. And then if you could mute your microphone to avoid background noise, that would be great. This meeting is being recorded and will be posted and available to the public along with a copy of the presentation materials on the town website for the JCPC committee. So, Mandy Jo, I'm gonna start with you. I'm here. Great. Carrie. Present. Andy. Present. Peter. Present. Tammy. Present. And Alex Lefebvre, present. Good. All right, Sean, if you wanna put up the agenda, our second item is public comment. The agenda provides instructions on how to participate in public comment. If you are participating via Zoom, let's see, sorry about that, my thing went away. If you're participating via Zoom, you can teleconferencing and would like to make a comment, click on the raised hand to be called on. If you're participating by phone, you can press star nine. When I call on you, please provide your name and address prior to providing your comment. So is there anyone in the audience who would like to provide a comment? And I need to change my view because I can't see anyone in the comments. So Paul and Sean, I can't actually, oh, here we go, there it is, okay. So seeing nobody with a hand raised, I'm gonna go ahead and move on to item three, the agenda. So we met last Monday on May 20th to review the updated capital funding due to COVID-19 and preview the revised capital requests presented by the director of finance and the town manager. And I wanna thank both Sean and Paul for their initial presentation on May 20th. Committee provided a lot of feedback and y'all, I'm sure appreciate the work that went into this revised presentation in such a short period of time. So our goal tonight is to discuss the revised FY21 capital requests and if we're able to side on a recommendation to the town manager. So with that, I'm gonna go ahead and turn it back over to Sean to do the presentation. And Sean, you got to unmute yourself. Okay, thank you. So I'm gonna share the screen in a second. One thing I wasn't sure what you've been doing for protocol is for presentations. Is it easier for me to go through the whole presentation and then do questions at the end or try to do questions after each slide? I assume it's probably easier to do them at the end, but I'm just not sure what has been the normal practice. I don't think we've had enough meetings to have a normal practice. If it's easier for you in terms of flow, I'm happy to run through the whole presentation and people can keep track of their questions. Okay, yeah, let's do that. Cause when I have it up, there's probably a way for me to see it, but I can't see if somebody raised their hand or has a question. So I'll just go through it. Okay, so this is the second meeting of the second round of the joint capital planning committee. Tonight we are reviewing the updated capital requests and discussing recommendations to the town manager. So we did receive quite a bit of feedback at the last meeting, which was great. We're gonna go into a little bit more detail about each piece of feedback here, but I'll just go through them quickly. So the first piece of feedback we received was that the plan allocated too much of the available funding to roads and sidewalks and didn't seem to leave enough for other projects that may become urgent during the year. In addition, the group wanted more information on what types of projects could arise as urgent before the fall when the joint capital planning committee gets back together. Feedback, additional feedback was to focus on FY21 and worry about the years after that later on. There was a question about will the joint capital planning committee meet in the fall? What happens to the FY21 projects that aren't approved right now? More information on the process for requesting funds from the capital reserve and how much is available from prior year approved projects. So other projects that prior joint capital planning committees have recommended and have been approved, what available balances are left for those projects? So we're gonna go through each point. So to the first point about two larger percentage of the available funds going to roads and sidewalks. So based on this feedback, we have modified the proposal and we'll look at it in a little bit more detail, but we've shifted it to be essentially 50-50 in terms of the available funding. About 700,000 would go towards roads and sidewalks from the available cash capital and the other 700,000 would be set aside for other capital needs that may arise. And if you go down to the next piece of feedback, this will give you a little bit of sense of what some of those projects could be. And to be clear, we're not recommending that these specific projects be funded right now. We just, we reached out to the department heads to get a sense what projects are on their radar and could potentially become urgent before the fall when we get back together. So the fire department raised one ambulance and laptops. They did say that the safety gear and the radios could be deferred a year because that's part of a longer plan so we could catch up in future years. The police department did talk about vehicles and the highest priority one was the animal control vehicle. I think that's the oldest one for them. The town clerk raised pole pads. That's something we might try to see if there's an alternative funding source for, but that was one thing that she raised. The schools, I spoke with them a little bit more about their revised requests and some other projects. One thing obviously does make sense is the ban for special education if school does open back up. And I did reach out to them about the roof and the HVAC systems because that was raised separately by a committee member. So the roof, as I understand it, is they actually do have some existing capital funds to do some repair or patching work. So I think that's why they feel okay at this point waiting a little bit longer. And same thing for the HVAC system, they still have some funds left over at this point from what's been approved in the past that could help get them through. They did make the buildings, they've got the buildings ready to be hooked up to a portable chiller system. So they, if anything ever happened, they're ready to go in terms of hooking up a portable chiller system. For town facilities, the front steps were raised as a concern and the Munson Library HVAC system. The front steps we'll talk about a little bit more, but that's something we might also look to the CPA funding in the future for. Conservation raised, they have a very old truck that they use to get around and to monitor the land that they're in charge of. And they also brought up, there's a dam dyke repair that they need to start making some progress on. And so they raised that as a possible concern. And then most departments, if not all of them will need some type of additional funding for COVID-19 related expenditures. So we were also asked to focus on FY21. It doesn't mean we're not thinking about FY22 through FY25, it's just there's additional rounds of planning and forecasting that we have to do on the operating budget side. And we do need some more information on some of the revenue sources, both locally but also federally to really get a good sense of how to project out those next four years. So we will be thinking about this more in the fall, but at this time we've left the FY22 through 25 years alone. Will we, will just JCPC meet in the fall? So we talked about this a little bit and we agree that we should meet again in the fall. If anything, just to hear updates on the capital plan, if any of the projects have needed to use the capital reserve and to get update on what revenue sources look like at that time. And then that committee can kind of make a recommendation on the best path forward for the rest of the year. So if revenues and the fiscal situation is still really unsettled at that point, it may be a good idea to stick with the capital reserve for the remainder of the year. On the flip side, maybe things have settled down and we have new revenues that we're aware of. And at that point, JCPC may wanna conduct a miniature review process and actually recommend specific projects be funded. So talking through this, we think it makes sense either way for JCPC to meet in the fall, at least once, possibly more to review capital planning at that time. What happens to other FY21 projects? So for right now, they're sort of on hold, the ones that, you know, the roads and then the ones that we've identified as potentially, you know, being candidates for the capital reserve, but there are other projects as well that might become a higher priority depending on how things play out. So right now, all those projects are on hold and they could either be, you know, depending on if they become urgent, they could be approved from the capital reserve. They potentially could be approved in the fall if more funding becomes available or if things settle down. Or when we do, you know, look at FY22 and beyond, potentially they could be re-slotted in a different year when things get pushed out a little bit. There was a question describing the process for requesting funds from the reserve. So we try to keep it pretty straightforward. Department heads, you know, when they see something that concerns them to communicate directly with the town manager or the finance director, we'll, you know, we'll review the request and, you know, we'll bring that to town council to allocate the funds. We thought a little bit about some of the criteria. This isn't like the only criteria, but if some of the things that popped into our head is guidance we could give them, preventing a system failure, you know, an HVAC system, a plumbing system, prevention of any type of public safety concern and preventing any discontinuation of core services to the town. So there may be more, but those are some of the things that rose to the top and in terms of things that we would want department heads to be on the lookout for. And then the last thing was how much is available from prior year approved projects. So we're in the process of getting that information together for the committee. I know the town stuff is ready, the school stuff takes a little bit longer because of the charter accounts on the school side. So we're working with the schools and we'll get that together early next week. And so that information will be available soon. And we talked about it again a little bit more and I think we've decided that we're gonna just make that information part of the regular JCPC process, probably near the beginning of the process each year to just share what's left over from prior years and that way when departments come and present, that could be part of the questions that the committee may have is the status of different projects. So we're gonna get back into a routine of doing that. So this is getting back to the projects that are on the radar. So these were the values that were in the capital plan for each of those projects. So the ambulance was 355,000, the laptop's are 15,000, the animal control vehicle was 50,000, the town clerks pull pads were 14,000, the van for special education was 48,000, the months in library HVAC was 30,000, the town hall front steps were 125,000. And again, we're considering whether that maybe makes more sense to go to CPA. The dam dyke repair, puffer pond was 25,000 and the conservation truck was 85,000. So all together it's about 747,000. So it's pretty close to the amount that we're sending aside for the reserve. And that would be if all these things became urgent, which I don't think would be the case. But it is relative to the number that we're sending aside for the reserve. Some more information just on the CARES Act and the COVID related expenditures, because I know that's a big topic. We sent a memo out to department heads last, maybe this week, last week. Recently we sent a memo out to department heads just updating them on the available funding for COVID-19 related expenditures, talking about the CARES Act and also about FEMA and updating them on the process to request these funds. Part of that was a attachment that listed examples of expenditures that are eligible and it's straight from the state's guidance. And so these are a few cutouts from that attachment that are related to what we're talking about here tonight. So accelerated telework capacity. So this would be the infrastructure to allow more telework, VPN type things, maybe Wi-Fi, laptops. PP&E for first responders and others who interact with the public. Obviously the first responders piece will be important for us, but also the quotation marks others who interact with the public will be very important for us as well because we're gonna have a lot of different departments that aren't first responders that are probably gonna have PPE needs to conduct their business. And then cleaning and disinfection of public buildings, including specialized cleaning equipment and air filtration HVAC. And there's some eligibility pieces that expenditures have to satisfy before we can get here, but in most cases, we'll satisfy that criteria. So this is sort of a summary of the capital requests. So allocate approximately 700,000 to the capital reserve and 700,000 to roads and sidewalks. Well, we intend to reconvene JCPC in September to provide a recommendation on the plan for the remainder of the year. At that time, we would reconsider the FY21 projects, discuss the updated five-year plan and hear updates on if any projects have been funded out of the capital reserve. Any unused capital reserve funds, if it's determined that we keep the capital reserve for the entire year, any unused capital reserve funds will roll over as a funding source for the next fiscal year. So if it's not like a, if we don't use it, we lose it type thing, those funds will stay earmarked for capital and help off set next year. And again, COVID-19 expenditures, right now the plan is to get those funded from the CARES Act and FEMA. And I've been talking to the schools and other departments about that. So this is the revenue side summary. It hasn't changed since last time. The revenues have stayed the same. This is the expenditure side. This also hasn't changed because the total expenditures haven't changed in the detailed plan that has those specific projects. The only real change will be, you'll see the shift of 700,000 from roads and sidewalks or not of 700,000, but of 400,000 because we already had 300,000 in the reserve. So shift the 400,000 out of roads and sidewalks into the reserve to make each group 700,000. And that is the update for tonight. So I'm going to stop sharing my screen. And everyone heard me? Sometimes when you're doing that, you're worried that nobody's listening. All right, I'm gonna turn it over to you. Yeah, so Kathy Shane joined the meeting. So I'm gonna relinquish my five minutes of chairmanship and turn it back over to Kathy. Thank you. And thank you for starting without me so that I could come in on the meaty part of the meeting. So I think, why don't we just go around with people raising their hands or waving their hands at the screen? This is a, I think a very responsive response to concerns we raised last time. So going right away to what we're now seeing as being proposed for FY 21, thinking about us as a committee, where we're gonna come out with a recommendation, but just questions about the logistics of it, the specifics of it, anyone, if you wanna, I think I can just look at the participants. It looks like Peter has his hand up. So why don't we start with Peter? Remember to unmute yourself. Otherwise, we will not hear your pearls of wisdom. I still make the same mistake at the in-person, physical town council room, was Mike's. You have to keep your hand up. So yes, I would echo Kathy's comment, but this is a very responsive change to our input last time. So I have a question and a comment. That's okay for me to bundle. So my question for either Sean or Paul. So as short as possible, so me not being a sidewalk or pavement, knowledgeable person, what described for me the pedestrian driver experience of funding roads and sidewalks at this proposed level? Like what are we talking about? Are some roads difficult to pass? Are there a great increase in potholes? Like what's the experience from a usage point of view? So Paul is only here in spirit. He left his picture up so that he didn't accidentally cancel us all out if he left, but he's not here right now. So the best person to answer that would obviously be the DPW superintendent. Sonia is here. She may have some comments on that. We have reached out to Guilford to sort of quantify for us what it means to lower the amount. We know it will impact potentially how much he bids out for the summer. Depending if he's used to having where we bid out last year, he may have to bid out less. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't get more funding awarded to him from the capital reserve depending on how things play out, but it may affect how much he can award out over the summer when he does his first round of road project bidding. Sonia, any thoughts or Andy might have been raising his hand? Yeah, I was raising my hand because this has been an ongoing issue for a number of years back to all of my select board days dealing with the problem. The reality is that our roads are not in great shape and that you always have a cycle of road problems anyway because of the climate that we live in and the degradation that takes place with weather. So in that leads to the pothole problem that we have, the sidewalks have problems with buckling. And I think Paul had made an effort over the years that he's been here to try and get a million dollars a year into the roads, not with the idea that it was ever gonna solve the problem, but that we just had to keep working at it in order to try and catch up to where we were before. And that had been the tactic that he'd applied over the past several years for those of us who've been on the JCPC for the past several years. And so I think that there is a concern because we're going to fall farther behind on that. And things that were, might have been in the line for years that we're coming are gonna be pushed out a little bit further and it's gonna cause a rolling effect on other projects going through. I think that what we were concerned about was is that to hold the roads to the million dollar level that has been used in the past several years and then to take all of the reduction from the non-roads part didn't give us the flexibility that we had, which I'm gonna turn on to my only comment, which was that I think that this is going in the right direction. I really appreciate the responsiveness to it. I think it's important that we have the amount of money now available in the reserve account for issues that need to be addressed during the year, but that we shouldn't view it in the fall that's money that has to be spent. I think it's money that can be spent if we feel that there's a need to spend it, but if at the end of the year, it allows us to do a little bit more in the next year for roads. I think that that's still an important priority for the town. Can I just build on Peter's question too? I know this is a question we've asked at a council meeting and I've been told it's been asked for many years in a way you're asking what won't get done? Is there a priority list, these roads, these sidewalks? So maybe we could flip it. What can get done for this amount of money? Like what are top priorities? So we don't need that as JCPC, but I think at some point for the larger public to have a sense of yes, we've gone to less than we would have spent if this hadn't happened, but what will we be able to do with this amount of money? And what's in the queue of if more money becomes available, what would we do next? So if we could just, I mean, Sonia, I know it's not that easy to get this out and Guilford has said that you could have a list and it might change because contractor becomes available and two things can be done together and then it shifts from being number four to number one, but it might be helpful to have that come out at the point the town manager is being asked these kinds of questions that there will be some kind of, this is what we think we can get done for this amount of money. And so it could just be a request to the town staff on if it's possible to get that, it would be great. So I see Alex also has her hand up. Peter, I don't know whether you didn't take your hand down or if you had a second comment. I mean, I have a comment, but if you want, I can wait. Okay, so Alex. Mine was actually just adding on about the roads and sidewalks. I know last year, it was last year and two years ago, Guilford had talked about the fact that they had created a pavement management plan and I know in past years when we were asking about priorities, what we were told is it's really dependent. So for example, a lot of times they might get money for sidewalks out of a community development block grant and I have no idea how those are being impacted this year. So I think while it's good to be able to figure out exactly what this impact is, I think it's really difficult to quantify because there are so many moving parts to roads and sidewalks and priorities shift. So what is a priority today? Because there's a community development grant could shift if that money goes away and then we're looking at something else. So I don't know how quantifiable it is. So I just put that out there. Other comments, questions? Yeah, I can't figure out how to raise my hand on this thing. Okay, you can wave it at the screen Sonya and we can see you. So first I wanna echo the things that Andy and Sean both said about the roads and kind of the history of the backlog. And there has been a backlog on roads for a long time and we haven't been able to put that kind of money towards the roads. And I just wanna point out that almost every meeting I have, public meeting I have gone to, everybody brings up roads and sidewalks and that's what they want fixed. So I think the town manager was attempting to try it to catch up and have a little bit of try to catch up on that. A few years ago we borrowed money to try to catch up on roads. The trouble with that is in New England, four years later, you gotta go back and do those roads again and you're still paying the debt. So that's not a really wise way to do it. So the best way to handle it was to do it through the cash capital in the capital planning process. So I just wanted to get those out. So I see both Mandy and then Carrie both. Let's do Mandy then Carrie. I'm not sure who's hand went up first, but Mandy then Carrie. Thank you. I'll try to keep my video on. My internet is somewhat unstable right now. First I wanna thank everyone for, Sean and Paul for listening a little bit. I still have some concerns, but I wanted to say a couple of things first. I would highly support going to CPA for the town hall front steps. If something could be funded by CPA, that should be one of the first places I think we go instead of capital that is a lot less, that cash capital is more flexible. So if something can be under CPA, I support trying that first and seeing if it will be funded under that. It frees up cash capital for things that can't be funded under CPA. Air filtration and HVAC that you had on the CARES Act funding. I am wondering, would the elementary school HVAC systems potentially fall under that? Would the months in HVAC system fall under that? Would the chillers for Wildwood and Fort River fall under potential reimbursement ability for that? And if they may, are we considering doing stuff like that because we could get reimbursed for that? It goes back to I think last week's discussion of if there's something on our capital plan that is reimbursable under the CARES Act, should we be considering doing those too? Not under this funding system because I think Paul said we can't actually budget for it to do, but should we be investigating that? I have a concern even with the amount that is the reduction on roads and sidewalks. We've got the projects that could become urgent are above by about 50,000. The capital reserve allocated to those or two projects in general. So it is actually relying on some of those projects not becoming urgent and other projects that aren't identified not becoming urgent. So no emergencies, that concerns me. And one of the reasons I think it concerns me is because there's been what seems to me a not equal reduction between the roads and sidewalks planned amount and the rest of the cash capital spending planned amount. If we look to the pre COVID capital spending budget, what was in there was about 1.2 million in roads and sidewalks out of about 3.8 million. And then we reduced the 3.8 million available to 1.4 million total. That's a 38% reduction yet roads and sidewalks hasn't been, well, it's a reduction to 38% of the original number. Yet roads and sidewalks have only been reduced about 46, 47 to 46 or 47%. It seems like we're taking some of the regular capital maintenance and switching it over to roads and sidewalks. And I'm still not convinced that an unequal reduction between roads and sidewalks and the rest of capital spending is the right way to go. So I guess I want some more information as to why we can't put more into the capital reserve less into roads and sidewalks right now with the potential for putting more into roads and sidewalks if other needs don't become urgent. Is there a reason we can't do that because we wouldn't be able to bid out enough and we lose most of the summer fall construction season? I just haven't quite heard enough support for that. And then one final comment, I want to thank you for trying to make available prior year approved projects and what is available from that. I think that will really help us analyze stuff going forward. Kathy, can Sonya and I try to respond to some of that? Yes, absolutely. Sonya, you had your hand raised. Do you want to go first? Well, I just wanted to say that the thought process with continuing with our roads is that that's something we can program. The workflow works for us during this COVID because we have DPW workers that are capable of doing that. And we wanted to get the contracts in place right off because there's only a certain amount of contracts that do this. So that's why we kept the roads steady. We're not sure if we're gonna be or how available other contractors will be for other types of projects that were in the capital plan. So roads was kind of like a given that we could do that. And I was gonna just follow up on the question by using the CARES Act money for the air filtration systems. It would be great. Sounds like a great idea if it's possible. The two things I would just raise is one of the criteria to be eligible for the CARES Act is that it has to be an expenditure caused by the COVID-19 crisis. So it's, you know, we'd have to look at that whether or not you could say that the, you know we had to replace the air filtration systems. If there was another way to do it, that was less expensive. But we would look into that. I think it's, I'm gonna be on a webinar tomorrow. And if there's a Q&A, that's something I can ask. The other piece was, oh, the other piece I just wanted to raise is the other thing that we're being really thoughtful about and mindful of is that the eligibility of the money that was awarded to the town, that right now can only be used on COVID-19 related expenditures. But the presenters from the state during this webinar specifically noted that you wanna use it for your expenditures but you also wanna be mindful that the eligibility might change to cover revenue loss. And right now it doesn't, but it could in the future if the federal government changes the criteria. So we do wanna spend that money on things that we need to spend it on, but we also wanna be careful that if the eligibility changes and now this can cover our shortfalls in revenue, that's also a very, you know, valuable budgeting effect that we'll wanna be careful to be mindful of. All right. Carrie. So I also wanna express gratitude for all the hard work that went into this and, you know, clearly listening and updating. I think I would echo Mandy's concern that we're still over, the scales are still tipping a little bit more towards roads and sidewalks given that I'm just, you know, as a school committee member, I have to, I have to say that, I mean, we were having a meeting next Wednesday when we're gonna be finding out what school's gonna, not finding out, we're gonna be starting the conversation about what school's gonna look like in the fall. So I hear all this uncertainty about, you know, planning for roads and stuff. And I think it's the same type of uncertainty we're facing this year with schools. I think this is a really unique year. And I hear that there's the CARES Act money and we're counting on that funds, but I'm also hearing from you that using that money for the HVAC system is not a guaranteed thing. So if our systems were to fail and I think the reason we were putting in requests on our capital funding for those items was because there is some probability that they're old and they might fail. So I guess I'm just, I feel like we're kind of on the edge and given the importance of making sure we have schools that are safe for our kids in the fall is so large. And same thing with the ambulance. I mean, this could, we could, every agency could make the same argument. But so I guess I wanna say I hear you and I appreciate that you've changed the balance, but I do wanna just say that I think there is some uncertainty with these federal dollars and whether or not we're gonna be able to use them for some of the COVID related emergencies. Cause I think some of the things that are related to our aging buildings will have an impact on how comfortable people feel sending our kids to school. So maybe it's not PPE and maybe it's not something that is direct will be able to directly link. But I think we're gonna be working with the public to build confidence that they can send our kids back. And I think part of that may be investing in some things that we haven't anticipated yet that may not be reimbursable by COVID. So I guess just the fact that that emergency bucket is less than $700,000 is less than what we've already identified as potential means makes me nervous. So I, and there's no easy solution but I just wanted to go on the record saying that. Okay, I see Peter's hand is up and Andy's hand is up. Peter? Yeah, so my comment was gonna be a lot of what Mandy Jo and Carrie said. But just to clear out the deck a little bit, definitely I would plus one to Mandy Jo's comment but CPA, hey, definitely for the front steps. And I mean, I would even go so far as to say that if you can't get CPA then 125,000 shouldn't be done for the front steps. And we're just gonna have to deal with it down. And that sounds harsh and it sounds painful but I feel like the way that we need to be approaching our capital requests has to be harsh and painful. And I guess I'm coming at this from a very recent point of view of how far back we've already pulled back the original capital across. So just a couple of visceral examples at the region which is a separate process that we'll have to detail here but we had originally over $400,000 capital that we drew back to 117-ish, that's like a 70% cut. And what we didn't include was correcting the climate control in the part of the high school where Summit Academy and PIP are located. So Summit Academy for those of you who don't know is our day program for children with significant behavioral needs. And PIP is one of our program for students with significant special needs. Some of them with sensory needs. And so what we just did, what we just approved is a plan where we know our students and our teachers are going to be in classrooms that are definitely too cold and definitely too hot. Like I feel like we're cutting not just through the bone and I'm not getting the same feel from the balance of roads and sidewalks. Like I feel like we should get to a point where roads and sidewalks and again, I can't say what that number is. Maybe it's half, maybe it's 500, maybe it's 550 where people who know that department are like, wow, this is painful. People are not going to like this because that's where we're at with everything else. The other point I wanted to make about left the Amherst school district level is that we haven't yet had the opportunity for the full committee to discuss what is an essential non-COVID-19 item. We've had one presentation from the superintendent that included this bed van, but there were other things on that list that were already identified as essential. And we're still having conversations about the Fort River Roof. I think that's a little more nuanced about how much money we do need to allocate there. We have that 2003 pile of other issues that I think what we're going to have to set aside a greater balanced amount. And just real quick in five seconds, I would echo Kerry's comment that the capital needs to get school ready for the fall, which is not a guarantee by the way that schools are going to be able to open for fall. We've got a huge discussion on that, that if you are interested, you should watch the joint Amherst and Region Committee next Wednesday, that those needs are going to be massive. And there's not 100.0% guarantee that the CARES Act is going to reimburse everyone. So I just think whatever report and message that JCPC has for town council needs to come on, come with a lot of those caveats. You know, a lot of those footnotes, a lot of those eyes wide open, there are still a lot of major moving pieces in this frame. Next. Andy? So there's three things that I thought about as this conversation has gone on. One is about getting back to roads very briefly. As running for council and serving on the council, I would say that it is amongst the largest requests, complaints that we receive on the council on a regular basis, is complaints about the conditions of our roads and also sidewalks, I don't want to exclude them. So that as we are being responsive to our constituents from the council point of view, that's the one we hear about. And I think that if we went around the council, probably get pretty large agreement on that because we're all experiencing the same thing. The roads, as I said earlier, decay rapidly. The reason that we can't even do an order for the roads is because what happens is that Gilford and the rest of the staff at DPW have to also try and identify what roads are on the cusp of serious damage that if they don't do them this year, that two years from now, they're going to have to do a lot more expensive and deeper repair. And that they try and catch the problem to the extent that they can when it's on the cusp of being bad. And because they don't know that in advance, they don't want to send out a promise that we're going to do your street next year because that decision that I just described has to be made. Second thing is that the reason that we're in this place for capital right now is because Paul heard, and I think the council heard from everybody that operating budget expenditures are the most important priority. And in order to preserve operating budgets at level funding, that we had to make this decision about capital. And so we go back to that three board presentation that we all heard. That was the major point. And if we start saying, well, we've got to do more for capital, do you really want to go there? I don't think that any of us really want to go there. The last thing that I wanted to just ask Sonia or Sean about is, usually we buy ambulances from the Ambulance Fund and that's sort of a unique and special part of the capital budget unique in a source of funding and unique in what it can be used for. So if an ambulance is necessary, would that be coming from Ambulance Fund available? And if not, why not? Sonia. So the Ambulance Fund actually took a hit when we lost Hadley. So revenues went really lost 20% of our calls and it went down and when COVID happened, the runs declined quite a bit as well because the schools were out. So right now the Ambulance Fund can't support an ambulance. That doesn't mean things could change and it could happen. So by the time, by the time fall comes, there might be enough in there to support an ambulance. But I can't say that for sure right now because of the situation. I just wanted to build on that comment though. When we met a week ago, Paul remarked that, and this is, will UMass come back? If UMass doesn't come back in full force, the use of ambulances is way down. And so we could be in a situation as we have ambulance reserves, in that if one goes, another can be pulled on. So I'm just getting a sense. I just wanna make the suggestion and see how people think. Part of our reaction may be, in terms of the steps on Town Hall and the ambulance, these are big ticket items. If there was a different list of possible urgent needs that included the failure of the chillers in the schools, a more mixed list, you'd have more of a sense of balance in that. So that's just a question of what is that, what might be coming to this? And in this context, I think in terms of probability a little bit, we're taking a best guess at the life of some of these operating systems, essential systems and saying we're taking 80% or whatever it is the last year, but there's that 20% might failure. So what happens if it's where Mandy was going with looking at 700,000 and adding everything up, what happens if we get a series of system failures and we can't, your criteria that we laid out, we can't provide an essential service. We've got a system failure and it adds up to more than the 700,000 or if we put eight. Do we have a contingency plan that we wouldn't necessarily, or should we recommend that the manager have a contingency plan and there could be things like, do we turn to debt financing of something or is there a use of reserves? What do we do in those kinds of emergencies if we took a good bet that this wouldn't happen and here it is January or February and oh my goodness. So I think Sonia is having a reaction to my, what do we do if? Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Despite what's happening right now, we are really in a good place financially. So with the reserves that we have, so if an emergency happened, we have reserves and also you were talking about the roof earlier, usually a roof costs quite a bit and that's usually a borrowing so that wouldn't play into the cash capital until subsequent years when you're paying debt service on that. So the $700 that we have in the capital reserve is not the bottom of the barrel funding source that we have. We also have, we have a practice of when we close our capital accounts of capital, if the projects are done and we close capital accounts at the end of the fiscal year we close it to a control account and there's also a little bit of money there. I think the last time I looked at it, there was about $200,000 there. So there are some contingencies in place. So we didn't, we didn't program that $200,000 either because that is also another bail safe. Okay, I think Mandy's hand is up and Alex's hand is up. Mandy then Alex or maybe, yeah, Mandy then Alex. Kathy asked the exact question I was going to ask which is if it all happens and then something else happens, what do we do? And it is the plan from finances side is to use reserves or the capital control it sounds like. Alex? So Sonia or Andy can correct me if I'm wrong but just for purposes of understanding the amounts being put into roads and sidewalks relative. So up until last year's capital budget, it was 100,000 toward roads and 30,000 towards sidewalks and that was sort of the annual budget for those which is why arguably our roads and sidewalks are so far behind. And so this leap that we went up in terms of the million dollars was a huge change from what we did in the past. And so I don't know that 700,000 is the right number or wrong number. I certainly share other people's concern about all of the what if scenarios but I just wanted to give the context of sort of what that number used to be to what we went to where we are now if that helps people in terms of understanding the amount of money we're talking about towards roads and sidewalks. Can I say one more thing on that? So also on the roads we have the chapter 90 money which is programmed in the capital plan which is another 841,000 that's state money. So we're unclear whether we will be getting that this year as well. So that comes through as a grant through the state and we haven't heard anything yet as to whether it will be affected with the budget crunch at the state or not. And I think that's what Paul was saying was that he was concerned that we might not get the state aid and so having a larger amount to cover that possibility. Right. Mandy, is your hand back up? It is. Yeah, that's okay. Alex triggered a question in my mind about roads and sidewalks. And we did just last year for this fiscal year I think is the first year that we really upped to a million and I think it was 100,000 for sidewalks or something. Sean in his presentation mentioned that he has the townside of the what is available from prior year approved projects. So I'm curious of that million do we know how much has not been spent or encumbered at this time for this fiscal year? At this minute now. So, Sonia, when, I don't know whether there's a best month to do that kind of accounting. So with something like roads and sidewalks clearly the end of the year is the end of June but do you have a solid look at it in July or do you not know till August? So I just don't have a sense of how invoices come in and Manzi's question of how much will remain unspent that's not already contracted for from what we have already allocated? Well, it's usually throughout the year and every month this has been a really unusual year obviously and we've been spending all of our time. I've been spending all of my time dealing with the trying to balance the budget for this year when COVID happened. So it's, I haven't looked at it for probably a month. So I don't know where it's at at this point and it's not something that I just remember. I just see that we're not overspending and we're still moving forward. So, but it is a monthly reconciliation every month of all accounts. Yeah, it does, I guess it's, you know, Mandy raised it and I've had this question for a while, it inked to the extent it will all be spent by the end of June. You think about allocating a new big pot of money one way. If there's a substantial amount likely to still be available in July, you can think of allocating less new money and pushing more into a reserve fund because if we tap out, if the worst case scenarios on some of these other systems doesn't happen, then there is money for roads and sidewalks. So, getting some sense of how we as a committee could say that we think it's important that that be done and that we can think of the allocation informed by that. If we don't have that information, we have this reports due on Monday, you know, but trying to make it without that kind of information is, you know, kind of a guess at this point of, yeah. So, we probably have that report Monday for you, Sean. Yeah, we can, I'm working with the schools this week to get theirs finalized so we can get that out on Monday. Sean, can I just ask on the school, I just want to ask also on the Fort River Roof, had you, I think you told me, maybe it's just when we did a follow-up that they have some money that's not spent and they thought the reason, or maybe you know this, Kerry, and that they thought with fairly mind that they might be able to get by with that unspent money for repairs to get through the year. They have some article, you know, at least one article, I think they may have two different articles, but they have one in particular that was for roof repairs and sort of similarly they still have some articles related to the air handling system, I believe, particularly a Fort River, you know, to address potential concerns there. So I think that's why the schools didn't include that in their revised capital plan. They didn't include the roof or the HVAC systems and the revised plan was because they had other ways to address those concerns this year. Peter. Oh, and Tammy just raised your hand also. So maybe let's take Tammy first since... I need the magic button that lowers my hand and un-mutes me at the same time. Oh, okay. Okay, Tammy. I just want to make a comment about roads. I mean, if we wait and allocate money to them in September, they don't have enough time to get contracts and do work, you know, as the weather gets colder. So I have, you know, I know that that's a huge issue for a lot of people. I mean, I live on a road that's falling apart and you have to look down all the time to make sure you don't trip. So I know that people, the public really wants roads fixed and I think this is a fairly good balance. And I think that if we wait to give money to the roads later on, that they're not going to be able to do much this year and then it would have to wait till next spring. So just want to put that out there. So I kind of like, so both Mandy's hand is up. I liked what I saw. I looked at part of your school meeting the other night and you all just waved your hands. It's easier for me than trying to see if a hand is up here. But Mandy has her hand up. Yes, I think that's the only hand up right now. Yeah, I guess without knowing how much our DPW was able to spend last year of the million dollars over the course of the year, it's really hard to say this year to allocate so much when our cap of cash capital is so small because, you know, if I knew that they were able to contract for the full million and had already spent nearly all of it or were under contract for all of it, that would give me more confidence that they'd actually use and use it all this fall maybe. But if I found out next Monday that they really only, you know, over the course of the full year only contracted for say 750,000 and 500 of it was this spring, then I have to question whether they'd even be willing, even be able to this fall contract for a full 700, versus pulling some of that back, holding off and allowing some of those contracts to potentially be used in the spring if none of these urgent needs come to fruition or, you know, only some of them come to fruition. It's the allocating it all when I have no information that they'd actually be able to contract all of it in the next three months, as Tammy said, to be able to use it in the fall. That concerns me given the other side is so fine. Kathy, can I respond to that really quickly? Yeah. So we're actually meeting with Guilford tomorrow to talk about a few things. So we can get the information out to the committee tomorrow about the roads, because that's obviously, the school doesn't affect that. So we can get the information back out to the committee tomorrow about the roads. And we can also get some thoughts from Guilford since we're gonna be meeting with them tomorrow, we can get his, you know, we can share his thoughts on the amount. Okay, so I see both Peter. You're muted, Kathy. I know. Peter and then Alex. So you just comment on two of these thread topics here. So the Fort River Roof, I mean, just for context, I mean, it wasn't too recently that we had, you know, literal issues with the roof. We had, you know, rain coming in, it was compromised. It had significant impact to learning. And, you know, part of the initial, but, and this is another point of the still ongoing discussion at school committee is with all the unknowns and with space, but with what we do know, space is obviously gonna be at a premium. To what degree do we want to run that risk again? And, you know, so last January or February is when we got the initial capital proposal. And, you know, we said, okay, what do we need to continue patching this thing to give us a high level of confidence that we're not gonna have the same issues? And it was 70,000. So I would imagine that something over zero, which is what's currently allocated and less than 70 is something that's going to help. But again, given what Sean said about what Roy Clark said, I feel like the school committee needs to have that discussion. You know, the other thing about, you know, roads and sidewalks and to what level is this really a public priority? And it's an unanswerable question, right? Like, what does the public really want? And, you know, which is why we're having this conversation as elected representatives. And I don't think anybody here doesn't value roads and sidewalks or understand the historical issue of what has led us to the situation and the need to address it. I would just submit the, you know, sometimes our loudest and most frequent complainers or inputters are not necessarily a proxy for the public will. You know, it's not like we can take a statistical sampling of what people say to us at public comment or an email and say, oh, that's what people are needing. You know, that is certainly a piece of the puzzle and it's important and we should weigh that, but it's weighing, from my point of view, it's weighing it in the balance of what we as elected representatives consider to be the highest priorities for the public good. And we have a near impossible task this year of taking a very small amount of resources and allocating the pain around. And I think that's just why I come back, sort of back to Mandy Jo's point about, you know, if we did all of that very short list of urgent items, we're already past the 700. And so that's why it feels like the right number for that is a little luck. Alex? Do we know when we'll have information about if we're gonna get chapter 90 or how much we're gonna get? Because arguably the conversation looks really different whether we receive chapter 90 funds or not. And so I think it's just one more piece that would probably inform people's decision making if we had some sense of when we would know that whether or not we would be getting chapter 90 or how much? Yeah, so we'll check in with Guilford again tomorrow on that. I haven't seen enough about chapter 90 to know if it follows the regular state budget process. If it does follow the regular state budget process, budget process, then it could be a little bit. But we'll check in with Guilford and if there's any specific answer to that, we'll send it out tomorrow. So I'm trying to see if there are any other hands up. I guess I'd like a sense of the group of where we are since this is our, right now our last meeting together. I mean, we've got a proposed allocation that's 50-50 in terms of the amount of money, 50% towards roads and sidewalks. We heard that we can by tomorrow get sent information that Mandy and then I asked for that, how much is left or will be left? Are we gonna be spent out on roads or not to help make an informed decision about roads and sidewalk and try to get something more 90? And then Sonya offered that, the 700,000 that's for everything else with a list of system failures, public safety, termination of an essential service as a guideline that there's potentially more money if we roll the dice and take the bets on that and it hits 750, 800,000. So I just want a sense of would we be comfortable with 50-50? Do we wanna go to recommend something less and if so, what would that be? So that more is in this thing called reserves. Do we have enough information to make that decision or not? And then my second sort of general thought on this is that, and I mentioned this, so I don't, sorry if I'm repeating myself, the list of potential things that claim it, to me, the more evocative they are like the chiller system goes in the school versus Peter, you brought the front steps of Town Hall or Mandy, move that over to CPA, get that list to a thing that people can see what is waiting in the wings and it hits as many people as possible. Because the thing about roads and sidewalks is it's an everyone issue and for people who aren't aware of the condition of specific buildings, it's not as much. So I just, if 50-50 is uncomfortable, what would be the alternative? If 50-50 makes sense, if we find it's gonna all be spent out last year's money by June and it's uncertain whether we get 90, chapter 90, we could also say roads and sidewalks at the bottom of the queue for the other 50%, other things first before roads and sidewalks. So we have to write a report focused on $1.4 million. We unfortunately don't have the 3.8 that we thought we were gonna have. So just, does anyone have any thoughts of where they would come down? And John, maybe we hear from you first, yeah. And everyone else can decide if they're okay with this. But because we're sort of running out of time in the process to get the information over, one approach could be no more than 50-50 or 50% to roads and the guidance could be to look at what has been spent this past year, July through September, and if the amount is lower than what we've got there to potentially recommend that lower amount. That would allow you to kind of move the recommendation forward but also factor in the information that you've asked about. What is, do people wanna, you know, I don't know when we go from general discussion to taking a vote on it, but that's a suggested way of moving forward on this thoughts. Carrie? So I would say that I would be amenable to Sean's suggestion with the strong desire to see the amount going towards the reserves, you know, greater than 50. And I think I just wanna reiterate, I think there's so much uncertainty here in terms of the state funding, the federal funding and then what things are gonna look like in the fall for us to, in order to reopen. But I think one thing that is clear that makes this economic downturn different than any other, maybe I'm exaggerating or I'm not looking far enough back in history, but at least in my mind is that we need, there are capital investments that'll be directly related to the health and safety of the folks that will be in our buildings in a way that I don't think we've ever seen before. So I think we need to just be open to the probability that we're gonna need to spend money in order to make our buildings safer for people to get together. And that that is also directly tied to our ability to have economic activity in our town. People are gonna need our schools and childcare in order to go back to work. Anyway, so I'm comfortable with what Sean suggested and I'm just, there's so much uncertainty it's hard to make it kind of counter argument, I think right now. Peter has his hand up. I think that's the only other hand I see up. Yeah, so I mean, I meant what I commented earlier, I do think this is an irrepossible recommendation to make, but we're not gonna be here until midnight, so we have to make a recommendation. I mean, if it's the will of the rest of the committee, I could go with that 50-50 with like no more than 50-50 with some sort of ridiculously strong language of if it's at all possible, don't get to 50 on the roads. I mean, I was just doing back in the napkin kind of numbers here. And if you did 60-40 with 60% to cash reserve and 40% to the roads, then roads goes down to 560, which I think is kind of a nice synchronicity with the original published amount, which is about half, all right, it's about a 50% reduction. And I don't know, something like that appeals to me, it feels painful, it feels less than what we need, which is what we're doing with everything else. So if I had my druthers, I would go 60-40, but I understand where everyone else is coming from. And I also have a strong faith that all of the town council is going to understand the topic of, to the degree that we have, and there isn't any hiding of the truth here. Everybody knows the boat we're in, everyone knows that the school may need to come to the town council in the middle of the year with either COVID or non-COVID related capital expenditures that are significant. I think that the trick is just in, how much of that do you want to pre-allocate or not? So yeah, I could go with 50-50 thing with some pretty strong language, my preference is 60-40, but I do sort of trust the process. If I don't, I don't see any other hands. So it seemed like we moved toward that as a consensus with 60-40 put on, or 40-60 put on the table, particularly if we find the, if roads and sidewalks have a substantial amount on spent, and unless we get an urgent thing, and then we have to write this report. And I guess the we is the royal we here at length. I will make an attempt to draft it and Paul sent me a note of at the end of last week or before this Monday, make it short and sweet. I'm not sure we can make it sweet, but I think we can make it short. And the focus would be on FY21 with this kind of discussion on the tension here. And I just, I wanted some how we do this. If I do a draft, run it by, make sure I'm not inaccurate with any of the numbers. And Alex says, co-chair, if she wants to help be a first reader, but then try to get it out to everybody by the end of the day, Friday, with people getting comments back by Sunday, course, midday, Sunday, I'm willing to work late on Sunday night to meet the deadline on Monday. And this is a recommendation to the town manager. So this isn't directly to the council. It clearly will be a document the council will see. And as chair of this committee, I'll have to do a summary report on what we met and things we decided. So I just want to know about, are we reaching consensus on this? And then I had a couple other questions just on up. We're supposed to do a month a year budget and recommendations. And what we have for the other years is very rough drafts. So I think it's important to attach those to this and just say, we didn't focus on that. We're going to be focusing on that in September. And if people are comfortable with that, I think it's important that people see what was delayed, you know, that what's not, you know, how, and then the other thing is, I personally would like to write a word or two looking at those years about the level of uncertainty on revenues. We're talking about FY 21, but FY 22, we have a pretty optimistic projection, you know, that the economy is back, we can allocate 10% again, property taxes went up 2.5%, we got new growth and we got a backlog, but we might not be there two years from now. And I think we should just at least say a word of caution that that's why we're going to be meeting again in September. I'm used to kind of ranges, you know, most optimistic middle grounds. What are we going to do if we're back to this? So should we just remain silent about those years is what I'm asking, or should we at least write a word or two that we may not be out of this just by confronting what's in front of us for the next 12 months starting in July. So it's two things. Are we at consensus on a 50-50 if we need to, but see if you can get over on roads depending on the information we get. Talking about the part that's in the reserve that there's a backup plan if all systems start to go crazy, and Tonya will check my wording on our reserves, we could, there is debt, there might be some money end of the year that could be allocated to all of this. We just don't know what it is yet. So have something about it's, this isn't the absolute cap on everything else. And then what, what if anything, do we say about the out years? So any thoughts on what was probably a less well-organized set of thoughts that I would have liked to have? Mandy. I support saying something about the out years, even though it's a recommendation to Paul and Paul knows, I think it helps to put it in a report for the council who will see it too. I kind of like Peter's idea of a 60-40 split. It doesn't prevent us, or it doesn't prevent Paul from still recommending a 50-50 split to the council. But it would reflect the concern this committee has had about a 50-50 split, and then would provide potentially the council and Paul more information about our concerns and when maybe we'd be willing to go above to a 50-50. If things come in, if we find out information about what's been spent this year. So I am more partial to sort of a 60-40 than a 50-50 and taking it down to, I don't know what Peter said, a 50-50 that sounds about right? Cause it'd be another 140 down. So 700, 600, about 550, 560. And then 840. So I would favor that, I think, point. Andy? Well, I take the opposite view. I think that we really should stay with a 50-50 unless we find that there's a lot of unspent funds from roads from the current year, which I just don't expect. But if there were, then I would certainly at that point shift. But I've seen the consequence of making decisions and then having to live with those decisions several years down the line. And it takes a while to plan the road projects and get the road projects built out. And it's not something that you can go into later in the year and effectively spend the money you've gotta be able to budget it so that they can do the design contracting work that has to happen there. So based upon my experiences from previous years, I would take the strong view that we should stay with 50-50. As far as going to the five years, absolutely we should talk about that. If we could say part of the charter mandate to this committee that we do talk about a five-year plan and to not acknowledge that we looked that there was a five-year plan and that it needs to be to the attention of the entire community as well as the council as would be inconsistent with what the charter tells us. Carrie? I just wanted to respond to the question about talking about the out years. And I think it's essential that we start talking about how fiscal year 22 is probably going to be painful as well. So I think the sooner we can start messaging on that the better. So we have, I hear two strong proposals. One is stay with 50-50 and write it that if it turns out that roads have unspent money we'll lower it. And the other is start with 60-40 flipping it. And we've got all of us on the screen and I am a new chair in a chair role. Do we want to put it to a vote? First on how many favor the 50-50 with that kind of wording and how many? And then I guess we see whether that one has a majority of us or how do we get from Mandy's strong support of Peter's idea where Peter offered it and Andy's saying, let's stay with 50-50. Any thoughts on how we get to one of the other approaches? And as Mandy pointed out, Paul can always go back to 50-50. This is a recommendation to him. So do people want to take a vote on it? Any thoughts, Alex? I'm not sure we're quite ready for a vote yet because I personally don't feel like it's like, I'm not sure what unspent funds means. Like, is there an amount at which we would change our minds, you know what I mean? Like if we're gonna put a caveat on unspent funds I think we have to determine at least a percentage or something, otherwise, I don't think we're really giving them much in terms of a recommendation. And I think what I've been hearing, right, is again, at the end of the day, this is a recommendation to the town manager, right? We're not actually controlling anything. And so I think as a committee, we need to decide what message we wanna send. And I don't know how I feel, honestly, because I have to defer somewhat to Andy's years of experience with the town and I value his opinion a lot. So yeah, I don't know what the right, one thing I think about with Rosen's sidewalks, right? My in-laws who are in their mid to late 70s with COVID-19 walk twice a day, right? They take two hour, one hour walks twice a day and I posed the question, you know, to them saying with this balance of roads and sidewalks and capital projects and, you know, my mother-in-law said, you know, I do have to look down on the entire walk to make sure nothing happens to me but I also understand the situation that we're in and we have tough choices to make. You know, the right answer is the one we look back on hindsight and say, you know, thank God, nothing blew up and we fixed the roads and sidewalks. I mean, I don't know what the right answer is. So I don't think I have a strong opinion one way or the other. Sean? Yeah, and just quickly, you know, this is a very unusual year. I think if you decided you wanted to give the town manager that range of 40 to 50% or the specific dollar amounts, you know, he's gonna take that information and look at what everybody's been talking about and make the best decision, you know, that he feels is for the town. So, you know, it's not that big of a difference that you couldn't potentially just say, you know, here's where the committee is somewhere between 40 and 50%. That seems like, Sonia, you have your hand up. That seems like a useful way to phrase it. Sonia? Yeah, so I, Alex brought up a really good point about what do we mean by unspent funds. Now, if there's a balance in the accounts, that doesn't mean that they're not gonna be committed shortly or depending on the contract timing and stuff like that. It may not be encumbered yet into a contract, but the contract might be in process because there's always funds that carry over into the next year for paving. So there may be a balance there, but it doesn't mean it's unspent or intended to be unspent. It's just the timing of how things work. So I just wanted to clarify that. It'll definitely be spent, it's just an ongoing balance. Mandy, are you comfortable with the way Sean suggested phrasing it? I don't know. I mean, I think there's some benefit to giving the town manager some definitive recommendations and all with a vote. Whatever that vote go, I think that's a better help for him, especially when we're sort of in this situation where we're having issues for him to gauge since it is a recommendation to him where the whole committee is on say a 50-50 split with that recommend wording as Sean put versus maybe a 60-40 split with a different wording so that he can take that into consideration more than, well, we reached a range. I'm not sure that helps him gauge where we are on that range as much as an actual vote for one or the other or taking a straw poll of who supports the 50-50 versus who supports the 60-40, say. Peter, people can do what Peter just did. You can just go like this, yeah. So in an attempt to merge the spirit of what Sean proposed with the definitiveness of what Maynard Joe proposed, that's where they are in my grid by the way. So another option is to split the difference and do 45-55. So 45-55 would be a 6-30 and 7-70. I like that because, well, one, because I like compromise, but two, I think in any, in this particular committee in particular, I think not only being definitive, but ideally being able to show unity is important. There are 350-plus communities in the state right now and many of them are at each other's throats over how to spend the limited funds and we're not, but we're having really honest direct conversation and I think coming out from this with obviously people with different points of view with one decision that we could all support is the ideal. Maybe we don't get there, but I would be more comfortable. I get so, in terms of my preference of outcomes, I would prefer a unanimous vote on 45-55 than a 4-2 on 60-40. Just because of the way that the process is working. Sean. Peter, I just want to be clear. Is this the second 45% method you're proposing? This is non-regional assessment method. I just want to be clear. The region's doing 45%, right? It sounds like a familiar number, right? So, I haven't expressed my opinion, but I think the sentiment that Peter just did that us not being together on this and then writing all sorts of words of how difficult all of this is, that we don't know whether chapter 90 money will exist or not. So, the roads looks like a big number until that number is not there. We don't know what emergencies are gonna hit us in to open up schools. So, the needing this reserve fund, and it was extremely helpful, I think that Sonia said, there is other money. We're just not budgeting it right now. I mean, if ceilings fall down and if systems fail and we have to do something to open up the schools safely, we're not broke as a town, which is an enviable position compared to some other towns that are broke, that there isn't anything else there. So, there's been one strong voice for the 60, 40. So, I'm just looking at Mandy's face to see whether 45, 55 works without trying to take a vote on 50, 50, 60, 40, whatever other kind of thing is. And then the words that we use around this clearly are the conveyor of the uncertainty and the sentiment that we don't want to not respond to urgent needs that put anybody at risk. So, Mandy. I think I could support Peter's compromise. Okay, thumbs up. So, on out years, I mean, talking about the uncertainty about revenues about years, we're including the tables that were given to us. And I think the chart that Sean and Sonia prepared because if you look, this was where, as a kid it's her last year when I looked at the five-year capital plan, what I saw was balanced budget year one and not balanced in the next couple of years. And that's true here, even without the full list of everything we could be sending it on. And I think we have to write some words about to qualify that not everything on the list for 22, 23, 24, 25 has been scrubbed in the same way 21 has because the staff has been worried just like focus on the laser. So we might come back in September and say, how come this is on the list? You know, it's a big item and be challenging. We're talking about that and we haven't had that discussion but we would include those tables. And when I'm talking about the summary chart that shows the revenues minus the expenses with a negative number at the bottom of it in 22, even with an optimistic revenue dollar amount back up to 10% and drafting it to not be very long. Yes, Sean. Whoops, Mike. Sorry, thank you. When we come back in the fall, Kathy we anticipate providing some different revenue scenarios about new growth and the amount of what percent of the levy we're allocating towards capital. And at that time we'll also have looked at the FY21 projects we'll know if those ones are gonna be approved or not be approved or potentially might be approved. And some of those projects may be re-slotted in some of these out years. So I think just maybe including that those are some of the things we're gonna look at when we come back will be important because you're right. I just wanna be clear that we're not project I mean, the FY22 projected is what it was back in January pre-COVID. We're not necessarily projecting that right now we just haven't updated those years. Obviously we think FY22 is gonna be as bad if not worse than FY21 at this point unless something changes really suddenly. So just to make sure that it's clear that we're not actually projecting that for FY22. Those four years are what they were pre-COVID. So Sean, are you comfortable or uncomfortable putting that table in would it be better not to show it at all? I mean, it's in the public domain because we just all looked at these charts. I mean, I don't mind if it being included I just think maybe we frame it, we put a caption that this is what the five-year plan looked like before everything all the revenue assumptions changed because it is available one way or the other. So I mean, I'll defer to you on how to include that but as long as we're clear on that. Kathy? Yes. I'm not sure which tables you're talking about whether they were the ones in the PowerPoint Sean talked about or the five years. Yes, the detailed tables are in the long list by everything. And that as I understand has what he just said, people haven't gone back to look at the list for FY22 the list for FY23 all the way through. And then the PowerPoint ones have the projected revenues, the projected expenditures where we're back up to a 10% flow in with the associated expenditures. And so that's the table that shows you it's not balanced even with an optimistic revenue, you know, with the pre-COVID. Yeah, so that was just a question note. We have one set of tables, all the details of what's sitting out there. And then we have looking out five years with revenues minus expenses. So if you include the revenue-mindedness expenses one that was in the PowerPoint, I would just ask that it be clear that the stuff in the delayed, everything listed in the delayed five-year plan column is nowhere in that, in those two charts. I think we just need to be clear about that. Okay, okay, well, do we record this meeting? I mean, I've taken pretty good notes. Yeah, it's recorded. Okay, because I may need to look at Pithy's statements. So, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I said that, that's such a good thought when in drafting this report. So, does the schedule work? And Alex, I don't know if I can get a rough draft done and just make sure I don't misrepresent numbers. If you wanna work with me on writing it, I'd welcome, you know, be a first reader on it and then get it to everyone by end of the day, Friday with comments. And I'll send it as a Word document, send them just back to me so it's not group think. And then I'll send it as Word so you can do it as track changes, you can do it as, you know, a memo or whatever and get it in shapes. Hopefully, my one thing that when I write too fast is missing words and sentences or the word, you know, so, and I'll check, but try to get a clean document ready by Monday morning. And then I'd send it to everybody, you know, what is called draft final, you know, it's on Paul's desk at the due date. Does that timeline work for people? Okay, I'm seeing nodding heads. Well, thank you, everyone. You know, it's too bad we can't be the federal budget and just deficit spend our way into a different picture, but we can't. So thank you all for staying, starting late and staying late. The district meeting had lots of questions just on when will people not be fearful to go back out in public. So this is definitely on everybody's minds on what does something called normal look like. Sean, yeah. I just, I don't know if we have minutes to approve or not. Oh, minutes. Yeah, that's great. Yes, it's on the agenda. So we got one more set of minutes that came in at four o'clock in the afternoon. Tammy sent me some corrective comments on the March 11th meeting when the library presented, just, you know, changing, I didn't get the names of committees weren't quite right and there were capitals. So I have to fix that, but I didn't get comments from anybody else. So if there were any comments on the meetings from last meeting, if you send them to me, I will post these all as final and just make the corrections. So we don't have to take time with a group read now. That was sort of what we decided just send comments. And so we'll be reporting everything, but tonight's meeting and we'll just put them up in a packet. So the meetings Anthony just sent were posted with tonight's meetings and the minutes from the other three meetings were posted. So they are in the public domain as draft. They're just not there as final yet. Is that all right with everyone? Okay. And we have no unexpected some things in the last 48 hours. So I think we can adjourn tonight's meeting. Thank you everyone. Thank you, Sean and Sonia for, I don't know how many drafts of this you've probably done before you even brought us the first draft, but thank you very much. Good night. Thank you. Thank you everybody.