 Good morning everyone. Bonjour and welcome to this very important session. I am personally extremely honoured to moderate such a world-class plenary session to discuss a topic of paramount importance and which is very dear to my heart and I believe to all our hearts regarding the future of our Europe. Over the last few months Europe suffered several setbacks, politically speaking at best it dented the original dream and at worst it put it in serious jeopardy. Brexit of course and as it looks in the hard way but there is as well the Italian referendum and forthcoming election in France, Germany and the Netherlands not to mention soaring poles for extreme right movement and populism. Recent events also put to the test the European community as a whole, the threat of two-tiered united Europe with an economic divide between the south and north and the impossibility of a common response to the refugee crisis. Last but not least, Europe is reminded of geopolitical and real political issues. Ukraine is next door while President Trump's rash comments on NATO and also on Europe raised the issue of European security and defence as well as the future of Europe. So rather than dwelling on the detail of past hurdles we look forward and address the question which Europe now. We want to be positive, we believe that we can build a growing attractive Europe based on its strong values and as we have learned a lot and many lessons recently we will obviously cover how can Europe overcome its division and forge a common path forward. As I said, we have on stage an outstanding panel today, Mark Rutter who is the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, Anna Bautin, CEO of the Banking Giant Sentender, Martin Schultz, President of the European Parliament until this week, Frans Timmermans, EU Commission's first Vice President for Better Regulation, Interestitution Relations and now we will move to a conversation and I will ask each of the panellists to give these views on the future of Europe. So Mark, the Netherlands, and I'm not sure you were already born, were one of the six founding members of the European Adventure. I remember that vividly, yes. Yes, I know and I think that you were already there. I was in that meeting, I will say. You were one of the signatory and when you see the current situation and you look forward to Europe, what is your view of the future of Europe and what you think should change in order to build that positive, constructive and attractive Europe? Well, thanks for asking that question, hosting this panel. I think it's a very relevant question. Let me start by saying that we need to be very clear why we need Europe at the moment and, of course, there is the need for a European Union which creates jobs and economic security for the future. That's clear. The other promise of Europe in 1958 was Nivee de Krieg, no more war. That is still relevant today because the fact that we work together in Batsas in a structured, take the Netherlands, 17 million people, a highly developed economy now with the highest growth rate after Romania and Spain, but still a small country. So we need that embeddedness, the fact that we work together in a structure of 28 countries creates by itself not only a feeling but also a reality of security, particularly with all the instability with Russia, North of Africa, the war in Syria and all the other instability in the world. And thirdly, there is a new issue, which is migration. And last year we were able to bring about an agreement with Turkey on stemming the flow of migrants coming out of Syria through Turkey. In four days they will be from the south of Turkey into Berlin, and many people died on the agency. We were able to kill that boat smuggler's model, et cetera, so that is positive. At the same time, we have to face at least three big issues which are not helping Europe at the moment. The first is that the main integrating force of Europe is the euro, and the euro is of crucial importance to an economy like the Netherlands. We would have been in very bad shape in 2008 and 2009, as the banking crisis, if then the gilder, the debt gilder, would still have been in place. So the euro has saved us in 2008, 2009, but still the euro is in difficulty because too many countries are not doing what was promised, implementing reforms. Too many countries, particularly in the south of Europe, are not doing that. And that is creating a fundamental distrust within Europe and particularly between the north and the south. And we have to be very open about it. The second one is the integrating power of the internal market. The internal market is not really existing. It is only there for physical goods. It is not there for services, not there for the digital single market. And that means that we miss out on billions and billions twice the size of the Dutch economy. And if the services and digital single market will be functioning today, twice the size of the Dutch economy, we are missing out on that. And thirdly, Brexit. Theresa May faced up to reality. I feel in her speech last Tuesday in London. But it also means that the UK is now making a choice to control migration and they are paying a huge price because the economic growth rate of the UK will be impacted negatively by the fact that they will leave the biggest market in the world. So they are willing to pay that price. But it has also a consequence for the rest of Europe, particularly for you for the UK. The price between willing to control migration and not accepting, and accepting the fact that it will have an impact, a huge impact on the economic growth rate. So I see three opportunities for this year, with the Maltese presidency and the presidencies after that. The first is in migration. We need learning from the agreement we have with Turkey. We need to close deals like with Turkey with the north of Africa. We cannot have people dying on the Mediterranean Sea. Many of them not being eligible for asylum anyway. So we need to close deals like we did with Turkey with the north of Africa. And I'm very happy that Joseph Muscat, the Prime Minister of Malta, is putting this high on the agenda of the Maltese presidency. On a digital single market, I was, France, to be honest, a bit shaken when I read that the Commission is basically not allowing free flow of data and has bound to French pressure to limit the free flow of data. And I believe the freedom to exchange data across borders in the EU is essential to build the single digital market. I know that 20 countries are in agreement with me. So I hope in the European Council we can kill this deadlock on this important issue of the creation of the internal digital single market. And finally on the EU budget, we are now in the middle of discussing the EU budget. I hope and I will fight for an EU budget which is tilting more towards innovation, more towards job creation and less to the economy of the 1980s and the 1990s. So we have to bring the EU budget in line with the Europe of 2017. So here we have three opportunities, where in 2017, within the overall framework that we don't need more Europe, but we need a better functioning Europe, these are three areas where Europe in 2017 could make a positive contribution. Thank you Mark. As the first Liberal Prime Minister since about 100 years, you are known for liking change. What is the only one change that you would like to see happening in Europe? For France? If you had to say one word. For France and Italy to implement reforms, that's crucial. If they don't do this, my worry is that Europe will be in very difficult circumstances. Thank you. Martin, you have spent more than 20 years right at the core of Europe Engine meeting representatives from so many countries. I have one important question before moving to your view of Europe. With all these representatives of all the countries, how the European Parliament could have missed the fact that we had a divide between the EU and the population? The citizens of Europe were not really aligned with what was happening. And as you are saying, all these representatives, what is your view on this? That's a question which has often raised to me and my answer is always the same. We have 508 million inhabitants in the European Union and 751 members of the European Parliament. To delegate the responsibility for the dialogue between citizens and the European Union to 751 members of the European Parliament is for sure not feasible. It is quite obvious that everybody says, we have a parliament and the members of the parliament have to dialogue with the citizens. We do. And I want not all of them, there are some who are sitting in the European Parliament with the attempt to destroy the European Parliament from inside, getting the salaries to destroy the parliament and getting the salaries from the parliament. One of them is running as a president in France, for example, doing nothing in the legislation. These people you cannot count. So it's less than 750 members. Now the European Union is not a federal state. The government, not a, the commission, not a federal government. The Netherlands, not a Bundesland of the European Union. The Union is a community of sovereign countries. And citizens in the Netherlands identify European politics, first of all, with what the national government is doing in Brussels. And if the national governments don't take the ownership back and tell to their citizens the European Union are also we, me, Mark Rutte, Angela Merkel, Paolo Gentiloni or whomever, Antonio Costa sitting in the first row here. We are the responsible people. We stick to what we decide to gather in the European Council behind closed doors and don't tell to the citizens afterwards returning at home, I was not there. I have nothing to do with this decision. This double game is destroying the European spirit and therefore the European Parliament is taking that responsibility for dialogue with the citizens. I hope that all members of national governments and especially the head of states and government take their responsibility as well. Then we improve the dialogue with the citizens. I disagree with Mark Rutte in one important point. The European Union is as strong as the member states allow that it is. It's not the European Union which has founded the Netherlands or invented the Federal Republic of Germany or created France, it is exactly the other way around. And therefore what happens on the basis of a treaty which was ratified by all the 28 member states of the European Union. What we are doing in the Commission, what we are doing in the Parliament happens in the frame of a treaty defined by you. And therefore I want you to consider to be very prudent with this request to some of the member states of the European Union that they have to endorse reforms which are defined by whom. The stability and growth spectrum. Okay. And for the stability and growth spectrum is responsible the Eurogroup and the Commission and not several Prime Ministers of countries if we continue to discuss in the way we ask as Germans, as Dutch, as Finns from the Portuguese or from the Spanish or from the Italians to do what we have done then we create an atmosphere of a battle between countries. I would prefer that the interpretation and the right to interpret the treaty and the rules is really in the hands of the community institutions. If this is not the case you create as we suffer it in Germany an image that the Germans for example are giving lessons to other nations. This is very in my eyes very dangerous. So to answer to your question the title here is to improve the shape of the world. This is the goal of the European Union. In 2050 this is the forecast of experts world population will go in the direction of 8 billion inhabitants. The European Union with 508 million today, less the United Kingdom inhabitants around 450 million in a foreseeable time is then less than 1% of world population. I understand the problem that we have in Europe. We are less than 5% all Europeans together less than 5% and Germany is less than 1% of world population. Thank you very much to correct me. That means the strongest member state of the European Union Germany with 82 million inhabitants. The trade economy in the world is then less than 1% of world population and the European Union altogether less than 5%. Could somebody tell me how a single country in the worldwide competition in which we are living with perhaps a tendency to protectionism in some of the important parts of the world could survive without the European Union. And therefore I agree with him we can't tell to our children and their children always only the profit of peace as important as it may be and remains to be. We must also justify for the future generation the existence of the European Union that only in strengthening ourselves by combining our economic competences and capacities we are able to defend our model of social and human values based society in the 21st century by sticking economically together. This is the justification of the European Union in the 21st century and I would be happy if all the member states would have the same view. Thank you Martin. Mark you want to react quickly to the point of stability of course but I agree with Martin it should be the commission to make sure to be the guidance and the judge of disability and growth back but look what happens in the Netherlands we had to implement over 50 billion euros and savings on a 700 billion economy we have reformed every sector of society this has had a huge impact on the society we are now one of the fastest going economies but still people feel hurt and then people see that to maintain one integrating force we have in Europe which is the euro that other countries are not doing what they promised in terms of stability and growth back and my plea then is I will pick up on your point with the commission to make sure that everybody will abide by the rules because otherwise we will lose the argument in the countries where we are doing what is necessary and I'm not talking about Spain I mean what the Spanish Spanish government is doing at the moment is huge they're implementing but there are too many countries which are who are not doing what is necessary and therefore not fulfilling on the promise that the euro would bring about a ever higher level of economic growth and societal a positive societal impact and we are not delivering on that promise and that at the end will have a devastating impact on European integration. Thank you Martin you will not react to this. You will do it later if you wish Anna. Anna you are the executive chairman of one of the largest institution and the number speak volumes about the size of Santander 200,000 employee, 124 million customers in Europe and in the Americas as well as 3.5 million retail shareholders and by the way the biggest contributor to universities globally. I have two questions for you the first one is would you say that the financial crisis and the economic crisis was a trigger or a catalyst that could explain the European disappointment and you should be in a good position to answer that question and you are a citizen of the world you are from Spain raised there in Europe living in the UK having been educated in the US so you have a view which is quite exceptional and if you had to make a few suggestions on how the CEOs and the company can help building a better Europe what would you say okay then I'd like to come back to some of the comments made on but first I'd like to say that and this is important that you know and I am in absolute agreement with Europe overall has been a success let's remember where we're coming from and I absolutely believe that it's the best model for growth and for inclusive growth it has given us the longest period of peace and prosperity now the fact that is the best model doesn't mean it's a perfect model so I think we need to work to make it work better and you know Spain Portugal there's many examples where overall we've made huge progress let's remember where we are coming from I also like to say and it's been sort of hinted at already is that one thing are European voters and the other thing those same Europeans as consumers and I think most people in Europe appreciate you know cheap and safe travel that the European Union has made possible you know roaming chargers you know many of the things we today take for granted a possible because you're the European Union exists climate change is very important we work together within the Union it's it's going to happen faster so you know having said this we need to change and if you allow me you know I have been in charge of Santander for two years and I think if I can share this experience with I think it's relevant you know the first thing we need to change is a common culture a common purpose and vision and you know again for us at Santander we're in many countries and if I cannot make my Brazilian team my German team we're in Germany in the Nordics in the UK have a common purpose and values and for us it's helping people and businesses prosper and doing things in a way that simple personal and fair for all our again I'm not going to get into that that's for my colleagues on the panel but I want to leave clear that it's hugely important that we integrate faster integration within European Union and for that we need that part now how can we contribute from the from the private sector I think we need change and we need change now and that's my third point and timing is everything we are at the crossroads because of Brexit because of many things that are happening and so to make change happen faster we know what works you know I want to say what I said two years ago at a panel at the day that European Central Bank was launching QE here and that was actually we were here and you know I said we there's a four-legged stool and that is about structural reforms hugely important it's about fiscal policy it's about you know banking reform and also about banks helping the economy so I'd say number one let's finish what we have begun you know banking union is hugely important and I'm sure I'll get some feedback here from my colleagues we have a common supervision we have resolution we need a common deposit insurance we cannot afford the next crisis without further union and I know this requires things to be done hugely important because banks matter most of the credit to SMEs small companies in Spain or Germany come from banks but I'd like to say two more things one is that you know people want to see results today as well as in the future and you know just two ideas one is you know use us in the private sector more and let me give you an example of what I mean by this you know we've launched several programs again UK and Spain where we work with universities and governments to create jobs at SMEs small companies hugely successful we've done five thousand ten thousand in the UK and Spain where we where we found you know for three months university graduates to work at small companies 50% end up staying in those companies why not do 500,000 of these programs across Europe's and I'm sure other business people here and in Europe have similar initiatives where people can see that Europe works for them today so in summary Europe works we need change and we need change now and I think we need both the fundamental integration and what I call more active collaboration not just between countries but between private sector public sector and I guess one last point which is if you ask me what is the one fundamental reform we need and again we can do this together is education you know we need lifelong education people have to be retrained today we cannot wait and when I say this I think we've done a huge huge progress on education in all countries but the model has to change and so this would be my last point on the structural reform education sorry it was a bit too long okay just in 30 seconds if you can answer two very short question one is about Brexit we have seen that Goldman Sachs and Moon Stanley have announced that they will relocate people most probably in Frankfurt or Paris and they believe more Paris because it's more attractive in Frankfurt but that's my French bias and the second you have heard Amsterdam yes maybe Amsterdam so we start the competition yes absolutely okay and the second question is Mark pointed out Spain maybe you can say one word on Spain case sure so very short leave I met very short so on Brexit you know how can I say this I was you know I regret the decision it was for me a sad day I have lots of friends in the UK we have a big business in the UK let me say first we remain totally committed to the UK we have 14 million customers 18,000 employees so we are a British Bank and that is very important having said that you know we we know and this is important we know it's a clear exit now a clear exit doesn't mean we cannot collaborate and cooperate like the Prime Minister has said and I think as we work you know to make this exit in the best possible way for all I think we need to think about our customers about the people of Europe both on the continent in the Union and in the UK you know 15 million British people visit Spain many millions more go to Portugal France Italy so let's think about the people of Europe and small companies they're the ones that are trading on both sides German companies have huge relationships and so I think about the people about the small companies that are gonna have a hard time and here I'd say that you know having a reasonably enough or let's say an implementation period that works for people and companies it's the most important thing and on Spain well yes maybe one word on Spain so I know that the south of Europe has this image that we spend our time on the beach and in the case of Spain going to bullfights and having siestas you know that is not true I promise you and it's not just me I run my bank in Spain for eight years I visited this cities around Spain and I know this is true in Portugal where we have a bank people work very hard and this is hugely important every country is good at something you know not everybody can be export led some people are gonna have to buy German cars right and so we need to understand that we need a framework but then we need to allow for the different things that each one of us in different countries does well but Spain like Portugal like all of the southern Europe if you take the overall we've made huge progress and I have to say the web report on inclusion is important and I'm not very happy when I see Spain and other Southern European countries being in the let's say the bottom quartile of that list but what's important is that we are on the developed economies list 25 years ago would have been on the developing economies list so this is very important to see where we're coming from and that we've made you know in the case of Spain from 15,000 to 13,000 GDP per capita but very importantly you know on immigration you know we cannot be satisfied until every single person in Spain in Europe has a job and a quality job having said that Spain received 5 million immigrants I'm sure a lot of people in the room don't know this a country of 40 million people received 5 million immigrants net immigrants between 1999 and 2008 40 million today we have 18 and a half million people working and yes as I said we have to so there's a lot of things that southern Europe has done and you know we need to do more but I think we need to take the positive side and try to make things better thank you thank you Anna France France you have been foreign minister of the Netherlands you are the first vice president of the Commission and as you know the Commission is always considered as the mother of all the problem of Europe it's a scapegoat of the guilt of all the issues all the problem you are making a lot of directive including the size of the eggs or how we should eat a cheese or whatever what do you think the European Commission should do in order to change her position her role her image in Europe because today every single country is pointing finger at the Commission and explaining to the country it's the EU Commission responsibility and fault of what's happening in our country yes indeed yes I know that the reason why I'm provoking you there is a we have a running gag at home oh and even my 10-year-old our youngest daughter has signed up to it whenever somebody knocks over a glass of water whenever a bike has a flat tire whenever it starts raining when we're walking the dogs somebody will say that's Brussels for you again Brussels is on this again you know so which is come by the way and then my oldest son you know in the morning when he sees me he would say good morning you faceless unelected bureaucrat you know that's the sort of thing you we joke about it at home but it is of course the reality of the Commission now you can have two reactions to that and the first is you know to adopt you know there's a rather interesting football club in the UK in England called Millwall FC and their slogan is nobody loves us but we don't care that could be the Commission's response to all of this and sometimes in the past I think the Commission had sort of that attitude we have a task something to do they don't like it but we'll do it anyway as far as our regulatory responsibilities are concerned we will have to continue do that because of course when we find a member state when we interfere in something because it's not in line with the treaty obligations of a member state mostly the member state will not thank us for it so you know and that's you have to take that that's our role that's our responsibility you know like in a football game you know if you get a yellow card you will not say thank you referee you probably disagree with him the other thing is we've been doing quite a number of things to fix this you know we have since the Yonker Commission came into office we've reduced the amount of proposals by 80 percent we have withdrawn more than 100 proposals we are now checking all the proposals with outside partners in the refit platform we have the member states the public sector NGOs checking existing legislation to see what we can remove we've also I think responded quite forcefully in the migration crisis with proposals with the negotiations we've had with Turkey with the compacts we're developing with African countries etc etc but all of this is neither here nor there what could mention the energy union digital single market or but the core problem in European societies is that there is sort of a an expansion of what I would call moral hazard you know use the term moral hazard in the banking sector before but there's moral hazard at the core of our societies if too many people in every single country feel that they've been left behind in global developments in recent years take Mark Rutter's country a country I know rather well unemployment rates are plummeting they're reaching 5% it's at 5.4 now and it probably be even lower this year they might even have a 3% growth in 2017 and still at the core of society people are disgruntled the middle classes don't feel they are part of the success of the economy and you can't convince them with statistics you have to convince them by showing to them that this means something for them and I truly believe that is at the core of the problem in the European Union but it would be so easy if you could just blame the Commission we take the blame if that would mean that everything would be hunky dory and member states but institutions in the member states are under exactly the same criticism as we are perhaps slightly less and I would echo what Martin said in finishing the only way to get out of this is if we remove moral hazard from society if we stop confirming the image that we are just there to make your life difficult if we can stop confirming the image that is not the member states fault what happens in Brussels they take responsibility for that if we can stop the image that people in the north are just out there to impose an economic model on the south which is not good for the south and that people in the south are too lazy to work these are all lies but they lead to a huge lack of trust between nations and within nations and if our societal model is to work for the future trust is an essential component we need to bring back trust we can do our part of the European Commission but it's only a small part and it will fail if not everyone is on board for this including the private sector including NGOs including society as a whole so this means that there is a lack of connection and communication with the citizens which is back to the question that they have put it looks like there is the Commission on its side the each member state with its own issues and there is nothing which is shared in common so how can we build a European Union which is really the the good of everyone in Europe and how can we make it happen why do I can we rebuild the dream of Europe I think a lot is is linked to the fact that perhaps sometimes in societies we don't see the ideological fight going on because there is a huge ideological fight going on within all of our societies between people who seek protection by closing societies which unavoidably leads to limiting freedoms so that's the price you pay or between or on the other hand people who believe in in this globalising age in an open society in a diverse society as a response to the challenges of the future that is a huge ideological battle and it's to me unclear who will win this but if the winning side is those people who believe in nationalism in closing societies unavoidably sooner or later freedoms will suffer and you see it in those societies where this is tried because if you use the word illiberal is just you know is just trying to hide the fact that you mean unfree and I don't believe Europe needs to move in an unfree direction frankly you want to react on this I thought that you were noting a couple of points because I agree with most what France is saying let me say the European Commission which came into place in 2014 has indeed been a huge shift in thinking because this whole idea of an ever closer union is now really buried it's gone what we now have is a Europe which has to be relevant and not a sort of project which has a sort of momentum of its own and I'm very positive about it and the fact that under France leadership so many initiatives have been killed and only initiatives at value are accepted to be pushed forward and that's absolutely fantastic but what we now have to do is to is to make it relevant and to show to the people that Europe is adding and it is possible to controlling migration to creating more jobs to controlling our outer borders and all these issues I see many problems as I stated in my opening remarks but I also see opportunities particularly in 2017 and I believe it is crucial crucial to work on this and it is not just a North and South divide but there is always a risk of a lack of trust between citizens and between countries in the European Union if not everybody is doing what we promised each other we would be doing it's that simple and again and this is a crucial point the growth rate of the European Union is not at a high enough level we are we are losing to some other big economies and this is because we are not fulfilling the core promise when we created the euro and that is that every society being part of the euro would do the necessary stuff to make sure that collectively we will be the most successful currency zone in the whole world and that is not happening at the moment and people are seeing that and that is hitting the middle classes that is hitting parts of society and it is hitting the credibility of the European Union and the positive of this is that we can counter this we can overcome this it's not impossible what we learn in communication and when we work for our clients we see that there is always two aspect one which is the the rational aspect and we have seen that rational is not working and when you explain to the people the rational of the Commission they don't understand and there is the emotional aspect which is the most important when it comes to citizens and where there is a big issue today is on the emotional aspect they don't see they don't feel that they are belonging to the same community and Martin this one of the point that you you talked about and I think it's important to see how can we reconnect and recreate this connection this emotional aspect this link that question no no no I'm I'm I'm you need some help you want to say it in German I'm hesitating because the answer is perhaps the answer to the question how the European Union can survive and therefore I'm not able I'm not prepared to answer spontaneously we must be very maybe I will understand the question I'm not so stupid I know that you have understood the question maybe I will help you with one question if you remember Jean Monnet and I don't know if he said it or if somebody attributed it to him said if I had to do it again I would start with culture he's right he was right and he's right until today so mark said this idea of ever closer union that's done now that's wrong what is the message of Europe and ever less a closer union of countries and citizens more than ever we need in the 21st century ever closer union of citizens in the European Union previous generations of heads of states and government came to Brussels and Strasbourg with Helmut Kohl still a German chancellor as a young socialist I fought against in my eyes today as a little bit more developed man a historical personality Mitterrand and Kohl by the way with two very different political concepts at home a socialist on one hand Christian Democrat on the other side they came to Brussels I was still a young member of the I was a young member of the European Parliament that time and their message was we are here to strengthen the European Union because we know a strong union is the best protection for our country today I had that privilege to sit in the council of heads of states and government there are people arriving at the entrance of the building and saying I'm here to defend the interest of my country as the interests of the country were attacked by the European Union the same union they are building this is a dangerous way if the member state I repeat it mark will not take back ownership over that idea that the biggest achievement of the second half of the 20th century in Europe to compare especially with the first half of the 20th century was that countries and nation across borders cooperate in common institutions who are a frame to balance the very heterogeneous interests where on equal footing big and smaller countries richer or less rich try to find a fair deal and compromise saving the face for everybody where this idea of countries and nation working across borders instead to build borders and to work against each other's is the biggest cultural achievement Europe in my eyes ever had during the last centuries if the heads of states and government Angela Merkel, Mark Röte, whoever, Francois Hollande will not publicly say this this is our union based on that idea that the European Union has no chance for the future what I expect from leaders in Europe and you are one of them is that they not say this is now over and never close a union no in the 21st century expect from the leaders that they say more than ever we have to stick together if the leaders will not take that that way then we are really in a risk and therefore mark I know that you from the bottom of your heart are convinced that this is the right way no then then have the courage to say it I'm not convinced that this is the right way I'm convinced this is the fastest way to dismantling the European Union you have a very romantic judgment of history Martin and I like that and you speak about it passionately but the European Union of Helmut Kohl and Francois Mitterrand is not the model on is not the model on which to build the European Union's future it has to be a very pragmatic relationship because without the pragmatism and without the collective insight that only by working together we can achieve some of the goals like collective security a faster growth rate of our economies the control of our outer borders of migration only with acknowledging that fact which includes that everybody has to do what is necessary to be part of the club but if we continue about talking that we are step by step moving to some sort of European super state that is the fastest way Martin to dismantling the European Union so leave out those romantic ideas it is history I'm a historian and it's always tricky and always a risk to use history as a judge for the future it's it's very difficult to predict the future it is even more difficult to predict the history okay we will give the floor to Anna because we're going to say I think you're both right and I and I agree with so you're a banker no no no no no no no no no yes friends I promise so I'm listening to you know that's true Martin I'd love you to come and do that speech to my team okay because what you're saying about Europe is what I talk if you allow me again you know we have 10 countries from Argentina Portugal Germany and when I took over the one thing I focus from day one is what is the common culture at Santander what is our common purpose so you're right we need a vision that pulls us all together because Spain Portugal Germany we're different but I also think we need at the same time pragmatic results that people see we need both both are super important we need ever greater union integration finish what we've done banking union is important for people for companies we cannot afford and let me tell you you know I have a customer in Alicante that does the same thing as a customer in Munich during the crisis these two companies were as competitive one had no funding or had to pay huge rates the other one had 2% borrowing this doesn't work this is what creates you know the problems we're seeing today with voters and this is happening and so we need ever greater union pragmatic results that people see and we need integration and vision and culture it's hugely important we do both and on the second one Mr Prime Minister I think you know one thing in Europe we should learn from the Americans is that you know ask us you know we are willing to help we want to collaborate and help because we talk to millions of people every day you know we have five million customers in Germany our people talk to them we can reach them every day working with governments working with universities so that people see an impact so I think you're both right first of all Martin I would like to say that I am very happy that you took these 10 seconds no I to think and to give to put your heart on the table that's very good I want to repeat and it's it's it's a pity that we are running out of time I disagree entirely with Mark about my romantic view it was a compliment no no no I'm not I'm not a historian but I'm a German one minute I'm a German and to say Helmut Kohl's view on euro was a romantic one please give me one minute 25 years ago Germany was reunited the fear also of Dutch people could that what we call German Sonderweg the two biggest armies in center of Europe united 1990 600,000 soldiers this big country in the center of the continent going once more in the direction which is not a European one was the biggest fear of citizens in Europe and it was Helmut Kohl who said we want a European Germany and never more a Germanized Europe this is not romanticism looking to what happens in Europe today this is very actual the enlargement of the European Union to the eastern country could we imagine today Poland the Baltic countries not be a part of the European Union taking in account what happens in Ukraine about what we would speak today in Europe I raised that question this is the wrong this is this is not romanticism I ever close a union of countries with you are right pragmatic solutions I agree this is what we need and therefore Mark I might have the point of your friends but maybe the question is sorry not so much romantic but we need an emotional appeal maybe that's something the prime minister can agree you need to appeal to emotions as well as you know to your pocket and your job so you need I think you need both and I think your speech is amazing and I love you to do it to my team look at this man being a bridge builder here that's amazing but what I would like to say I mean Mark Ritt and I disagree fundamentally on our vision on the European Union and that's been the case for 20 years I do not believe in a purely utilitarian European Union that doesn't work we are not in a purely utilitarian phase of our society the people who think that nationalism and protectionism will bring a solution are not doing this for utilitarian reasons but for ideological reasons if you would look at the united kingdom and brexit in a purely utilitarian way brexit will never have happened so there is that's what I want to reiterate there is a fundamental ideological confrontation going on in our European Union and you need to show your cards in this you need to show your colors you need to show where you stand and some of the assumptions of the European right and especially the Liberals over the last 30 years if we're talking about history need to be reassessed Thatcher was wrong when she said there is no such thing in society the Liberals were wrong when they said the market will take care of everything the Liberals were wrong where they said trickle down economics will work the Liberals were wrong when they said we don't need government anymore these are the things I hear it here in Davos even in Davos agree with people who would not have agreed with me five years ago agree with me on this in this fundamental change of the world economy governance becomes more important than ever before and this governments will be a different governments than in the past no more paternalism you know that that was Schumann etc those were very paternalistic people they said we will fix Europe but please don't tell the people how we're going to do it because they won't like it that paternalism is gone we need inclusive governance including the private sector but we need to understand that this world will not benefit everyone without governance okay it took 50 minutes to finally get everyone of yours speaking with your heart and I thank you for that and as I was mentioning one of the biggest issues that Europe is facing is the fact that we are too much about regulation too much about the the pragmatic aspect I'm sorry Mark and not enough about the dream and not enough about the connection the emotional connection and in the few minutes which are left I would like that we we give to the audience the idea of what we would like all together to build for Europe what are the great ideas in order to make Europe attractive make Europe part of the the value of everyone that everyone feels that they are belong to Europe and Europe is part of their own life Mark well maybe to France always a risk when a socialist starts to assess liberalism because I I don't agree with his assessment of liberalism exactly in the in the spirit of the time constrained building a better Europe Europe I mean all the citizens but all this romanticism etc doesn't work as long as Europe is not delivering results and that is why I'm pleading for a pragmatic approach because at the moment European Union is not delivering the necessary results so we can talk about love the ideas and about ever closer union but as long as people are seeing that collectively this is not the commission not the council not the European Parliament collectively we are not delivering enough jobs not enough protection of outer borders not doing enough to fight illegal migration we can make huge progress on each of these subjects this year in Europe I'm absolutely convinced that many people want to do this so I'm not pessimistic about 2017 but we need that pragmatic approach that is the the entrance ticket to have a dialogue with your citizens about the pluses and minuses of the European Union but when Europe is not delivering results you don't have that entrance ticket to start that dialogue with the citizens and that is why I'm pleading for a very pragmatic approach and stop the lofty speeches okay we need to fix those issues and we all agree we have one program which is working beautifully for all the youngsters of Europe which is Erasmus can we think about another program which could be much broader much larger and encompass much more people and that people feel that Europe is part of their lives Martin yeah we are preparing this Erasmus plus and to enlarge it also to apprentices and to the non-academic world this is extremely important I agree nevertheless for the future of Europe with Mark we must deliver concrete results and to give you an answer to what my feeling is for the future this is absolutely not romantic it is very pragmatic we are in Brussels discussing every day about billions 10 billion here 50 billion there 100 billion tomorrow 30 billion yesterday for most of our citizens a million is an enormous amount of money I think here in the room also but for 99 percent of citizens thousand euros is the question of survival for the rent for the children for the clotus for the car for the job for the healthcare people have not the feeling that we are discussing about their thousand salary thousand euros about their salaries they think they are and that's what he means with we must deliver concrete solutions in the worldwide economy of the 21st century we cannot deliver such solutions without taking an account in account that the competition to Europe is not a fair one other parts of the world are more competitive than we are but why because they are not respecting our standards they have not a minimum salary they have no trade unions there's no right of strike there are governments who close the internet when the opinion of the internet is not confirming with the line of the government etc etc if they they don't care about environmental standards or minimum social standards if they become more competitive than we are because they don't respect our standards we will defend our model of society only by combining our economic and political forces only so Europe can survive in the 21st century that's the reason why I think Ms. Boutine was right the combination between his pragmatism and my ever closer ever closer ever closer cooperation of countries and nations across the borders is perhaps the solution well I agree with Mr. Schultz but I think there's one word which is education and I think we need to work in the same way its vision and integration and also pragmatism we need a fundamental review of education you know the model is not going to work for the next 50 years we need to do that fast we know what works we have countries examples and at the same time programs like the one I refer to why don't we work instead of you know 10,000 500,000 new jobs in small companies working with universities and private sector I think those are the two things and both are linked to education but making sure that it translates into jobs today and I think we know how to do that France well the world is going through fundamental changes and that this will affect Europe as much as any other part of the world as institutions either you adapt to that or you disappear and nostalgia is the worst possible position to take looking at past successes because that's basically what nationalists do they portray a picture of a nation that was so happy on its own which is a complete lie that's not history but they flee in nostalgia which will not prepare us for the future either we prefer for the future or we become obsolete this applies to the commission this also applies to national institutions and we need to see it as also an ideological confrontation and let me let me give you again an example from the country I know best the government led by Mark Rutter is extremely successful in very concrete results unemployment historical drop in unemployment last year economic growth very high society is in a good shape people individually feel quite happy so why is Mr Wilders then leading in the polls if results actually convince everyone that's a big question because he has a proposition based on ideology which says that exclusion of others will protect us and I think I think we all need to challenge that assumption exclusion of others will lead to unfree societies for all of us inclusion is the only way forward and I think if we as Europeans commit to that ideology because I think it's an ideology whether you're from the right or from the left we can save the European Union I think this will be the the world of conclusion the European Union is about inclusion it is about values it is about emotion and at the same time it is about delivering results and we have to fix everything which is a huge task so I wish that the future elections will give us the right leaders to build the future of Europe and we need every one of us to play the rules and to play our role in order to help Europe to become what has to be the light of the world thank you