 All right, I'm gonna go ahead and get started because it is like one minute after five, and we don't want to be late Ding time so this session is about Teaching people Drupal 8 and the importance of doing so and and kind of some of my ideas about how we can do that And I'm being told that it might help if the microphone was closer Is that better? All right, cool So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead with that. We're gonna talk about Why we need to teach people Drupal 8 and why we should start doing it right now? And how we can go some ideas about how we can go about doing that a little bit of background My name is Joe For those of you that don't know me I work at Lullabot and on the Drupalize me team I am EoJ the Brave on Twitter and IRC and Drupal.org and pretty much anything internet related This slide is hilarious to me because 90% of the time I put this slide into a presentation And then I'm like, yeah, sweet. I work for these people This isn't relevant to what I'm actually talking about But it's really funny because this is like the one time this slide is ever relevant because at Lullabot I'm the lead trainer for the Drupalize me project. So I've had a lot of experience teaching people Drupal and I've put a lot of time and thought into Thinking about sort of ideas about how we can improve that experience For those of you that don't know me from Drupal.org You might know me because my face is plastered all over these videos on Drupalize me and it's kind of awkward our booth right now has this Video on repeat that has me talking and then I'm like standing there. Oh, it's weird Anyways in this talk What I'd like to do is I'd like to try to spend about 15 to 20 minutes giving a presentation about some of What I see is the problems in this space right now and some of my ideas for how we can address those and then open It up for discussion and the idea being that in these core conversation tracks were able to have a bit more of an open discussion about these things So I want to talk about Why we're talking about this why education is important and especially now and sort of the point that we're at in the Drupal 8 release cycle I'm gonna talk a little bit about the things that we are already doing in order to help educate people about Drupal 8 I'm gonna talk a little bit about some things that I think we could we could be doing that We're not or that we could be doing better I am going to present to you a idea that I have about ways that we can Leverage our the size of our community to help educate our community And then I'm gonna open it up for discussion and you're gonna tell me how you're going to teach people Drupal 8 so To start out. I think it's important to understand like Why we're talking about educating people in Drupal 8 I think There's kind of the obvious right Drupal 8's right around the corner Whatever however far away that corner is we are definitely going to round it at some point and at that point suddenly Everyone's gonna need to know Drupal 8 so that they can start building websites with it And if they if we're not able to educate our community both site builders Developers end users on how to use the software We're not going to see the level of adoption that we would like to with Drupal 8 like the number one reason We're talking about this is because if people don't know how to use Drupal 8 They're not going to be able to build websites with Drupal 8 a Lot has changed between Drupal 7 and Drupal 8. I honestly don't know all of the things that have changed I've read a lot about various different things. I've seen a lot of different statistics that try to represent it in numbers I think it's just safe to say that there are some really really big changes between The way that we do things in Drupal 7 and the way that we're going to be doing them in Drupal 8 and we've ended up in this Currently in this space where I feel like there's a Unfortunately a lot of fear and doubt about Drupal 8 and about the amount of change I think we're seeing a lot of blog posts from people that are like oh my god everything changed You should be terrified and so a lot of people that aren't closely tracking What's going on in Drupal 8 and really know like what that change means all they're hearing is Drupal 8 is 76% different than Drupal 7 and I was like well, that's a terrifying number that Means nothing to me other than I should be scared And I think it's important for us to talk when we talk about educating people about Drupal 8 to talk about that too And that fear and uncertainty kind of in our community right now Because in order for people to learn we need to provide them with a safe space to learn Like people learn best when they're comfortable and when they're excited about the thing that they're going to learn Not when they're being forced to learn it against their own will and they have no interest in it Finally I think that in this especially in the context of these core conversations There's a really large opportunity for people to get involved in the community by contributing to helping Educate people about Drupal 8 this is one of those really cool opportunities where you don't even have to write any code to help contribute to Drupal 8 So that's an exciting thing for me So We're already as a community doing a whole lot of things to try to help teach people about Drupal 8 And we're doing all of these really well, but of course we could be doing all of them even better than we're already doing them So we're most of you are probably familiar with these resources already, but we'll kind of just run through real quick api.drupal.org. It's our code documentation I would say that in most cases this is the number one place that people go to learn about Drupal in general as developers anyways This is the their number one resource for figuring out how to accomplish the thing that they need to do in Drupal This is true of Drupal 6 of Drupal 7 and this will be true of Drupal 8 So we need to make sure that the documentation that we write in our code is Awesome, so that when it gets parsed and put on api.drupal.org People find that information and they can make use of it We're doing a pretty good job of that, but it's always one of those things that we could do better at And I think that's a good opportunity for people to help out and just keep improving that documentation Improving those tools for discovering the documentation as well One of my favorite things that the community has started doing with Drupal 8 is these change notices So I don't remember the process of upgrading a module from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7 But you went to this page on Drupal.org and scrolled for about six minutes And it listed every single change between Drupal 6 and Drupal 7 except the ones that it didn't list And then you just did all of those things to your module and to that worked in Drupal 7 It did I swear And it actually it worked really well because it provided a resource for people to go and find the things that had changed In Drupal 8 this is or sort of in the process of building Drupal 8 We've got new tools for dealing with what are called change notices on Drupal.org But basically the ability to log that this is the way it was done in Drupal 7 This is the way it's done in Drupal 8 or this is something that's new in Drupal 8 But now they're they're not all in one giant page. They're searchable They a lot of them have really great examples that shows this is how you implemented the hook in Drupal 7 This is how do you implement it in Drupal 8 or whatever the equivalent is and provide a resource for people who are Already know Drupal 7 and are moving towards learning Drupal 8 Which at this point is probably a large part of the people we're talking about trying to educate I am The one thing that I struggle with with change notices, and I think that we could work on doing a little bit better is making it more Easier to find the ones that are really valuable change notices at this point there's a few thousand of them probably and Some of them are like we added a new routing system and here is how you use it and some of them are We change the name of this function and and both of those things are relevant and important But when I'm first learning Drupal, I want to find the ones that are like this is the really big change If I ever need to know that you change the name of that function, I'll know because it won't work when I try to use it So I think something we could potentially do here is add some either some kind of like flag like this one's important says the community or Document the changes a little bit more on Drupal.org and then link to the change notices provide a little some kind of discoverability for these change notices And so kind of running through this handbook is our Non-code documentation it's For me, this is the place that I go when I want to learn a little bit more about Why this decision was made or how this whole this system as a whole works versus How this one particular function works? Again, we're doing it. It could always be better I would say and also kind of right now I would say the API documentation is great the change notices are awesome the handbook upgrades are coming along and getting there in In addition to that there's also all kinds of content that doesn't live on Drupal.org that were that people in the community are Generating blog posts articles tutorials videos and that kind of stuff We're doing that and we should continue to do so. I do have some ideas about How we can improve that and what really like when you're writing a blog post? What should you be writing about and how could you make it useful for educating people? And then of course things like this Drupal con and camps are a really really good opportunity for us to very quickly Educate a whole bunch of people about something because you've you've got a bunch of people in the room Larry Todd a session Larry and Robin had a session next door Like an hour ago that had probably close to 200 people in the room that we're learning to write a Drupal 8 module for the first time And that's awesome. So I would like to talk about ways that we can Leverage our camps and cons and our communities in order to more rapidly like disseminate that information I Do a lot of video stuff and I get asked this question a lot Why aren't you doing more Drupal 8 videos? And this is why we're not doing a lot of Drupal 8 videos right now Because videos are really hard to patch And so while I think they're important and we should continue to produce that kind of material Remembering that the educational material we're producing now is going to need to change and continue to change until Drupal 8 is Not changing so rapidly So as if you're producing your own materials kind of keeping that in mind So that's a bit about like what we're doing already So and then I want to talk about some of my ideas about things that we could be doing But aren't really doing a ton of at the moment None of this is based on research So we may actually be doing this and I just don't know it But this has kind of been based on my observations over the last six months or so I mentioned at the beginning that one of the important things we need to do is clear up this like Concern about oh my god Drupal 8 is hard. It's like More oh man Drupal 8 is different than Drupal 7. Yes, you're right It is and Drupal 6 was different than or Drupal 7 was different than Drupal 6 and I think that You know The people that attend these conferences the leaders in our community We have a role and where we should be trying to build hype and energize people about Drupal We should be spending more time talking about not oh man this thing changed in Drupal 8 You're gonna have to learn all this crazy new stuff. We should be talking about yes This thing changed, but if you learn this new stuff, here's why it's going to be awesome for you so you know as a developer it's For the most part. I don't really care that it changed Or I'm willing to figure out what changed and learn that new system if I know what the benefit is to me If I'm just relearning how to do the same thing that I already know how to do I Better have a really good reason to do that and so you know, there's all these examples with Drupal, right? The way that we route code paths and stuff in the routing system in Drupal 8 is different than it was in Drupal 7. I Think we need to be educating people not only that yes It's different, but why it's different and if they take the time to learn Drupal 8 in this new system The benefits that they're going to gain from using that So I think that you know our one of our roles should be to Tell our community why we're excited about Drupal 8 and why we're excited about these changes so that they get excited to learn them I was thinking about for myself like You know six months ago or so trying to figure out I know that I'm gonna need to invest a lot of time in learning Drupal 8 in the near future and To some extent I'm gonna do it because I have to for my job for what I do But how do I get excited about it and I kept thinking I'm really excited about all this other stuff That's going on like I kind of want to learn node.js. That sounds really cool I want to learn this other tool over here, and I think that what was happening for me was I Wasn't as excited about Drupal 8 because it or the amount of work that I would have to put into learning it Because it felt like I was just Having to spend a ton of time learning to do what I already knew how to do Which is totally not the case But based on the things that I've been reading and kind of how I was feeling at that time That's that's what I was feeling and so I wanted to see more of like this hype and excitement and the if you learn to do This thing here's why it's gonna be awesome for you if you learn how to use the new translation system This is why it's going to make your life easier So I think we could do a lot in that respect The other thing that I think I would like to see us do more of is talk a bit more about When we're teaching people talk a bit more about why things changed and not just what changed We have a Lullabot has a company retreat once a year and at our previous our last retreat I spent some time just kind of talking to my co-workers who are all going to have to learn Drupal 8 like how are you? How do you plan on learning Drupal 8? What what can you know the people on the education department at Lullabot do to help you learn Drupal 8 and the response that I kept Getting was like, you know, I'll totally go read the API documentation I'm happy to do that and figure out how the functions work, but I want to know like I don't know What the new things are that I don't know about I don't know of the two new things Which one I should choose and why and so a little bit more like painting the big picture for people about This is the system that's available and this is why you would choose using And see I'm gonna totally make things up This is why you would use a queue instead of a batch to do something And being able to explain those things to people and I think a lot of developers in our community Once they're convinced that this is the right system are totally capable of figuring out how to read the document the API documentation And especially if we can get away from that like oh my god object-oriented programming It's like you figured out how to do the Drupal 7 stuff I would my gut says that most people are going to be able to figure out the Drupal 8 stuff just fine But there is a lot of like uncertainty in our just because that gets bubbled up People get really excited about the like doubt in the in various blog posts and Twitter and stuff And it becomes a bigger discussion that it needs to be But I think that so lots of discussions about The why aspect of it I think are gonna be important I feel like We can build all these really cool tools in Drupal 8 for the community And we can teach them how to use them and we also need to teach them the rules So that they can figure out how to break the rules Like our community is going to build things with Drupal 8 that we can't even fathom right now But they're not going to be able to do that until they first understand all of Drupal 8 and then configure how to push its limits Another thing that we are actually doing now, but I think For me this is not a like let's just kind of keep doing it in the background. This is like a let's get it done now Is the examples project? If you're not familiar with it the examples project on Drupal.org contains Example modules using various different core APIs and like documentation about how to use those. I think that For a while it was fine for us to not update these because Drupal 8's APIs were changing so rapidly and nobody wanted to maintain the examples project But now we're at this period where we're we're asking Contrib module maintainers to update their code. We better provide them examples on how to use those things the other thing that I think this will help with a lot is Show of hands how many people in this room could go and implement something using batch API right now Yeah, how many people in this room could go and download the batch module example and copy and paste the example and change a couple things in the file Yeah, so and and you would probably learn a little bit about how that system works along the way So I think it's important for us to get these things up to date I know I certainly couldn't I think like half the things I do in Drupal 7 I copy and paste from the examples module It's amazing. I Would like to see Spent us spend some time looking at other Communities that have also been through this type of change We're certainly not the first community that has introduced a oh my god There's a ton of changes scenario and then had to figure out how to really quickly Educate everyone in the community on what those new changes are and I I would assume that there are opportunities to learn from Others that have gone before us I have one specific example of this that I found to be pretty interesting and so I'm gonna share that my Data may be a little bit off because most of this is second-hand information, but the way that this works is My dad and my wife have both worked as nurses and health care agencies at some point And a few years ago that US government mandated that all health care agencies switch to electronic medical records by Some time I think it may still be some time in the future, but they're all pretty rapidly changing And this was an interesting scenario where all of a sudden a whole bunch of people had to Transition their knowledge of how to keep medical records on paper to doing it on a computer It's still pretty much the exact same thing They're logging the same information, but it's a different tool for doing so and I think there's some analogies between The Drupal 7 Drupal 8 there where you know We're asking people to relearn how to do a lot of the things that they already know how to do But then when they switch to the computer They got all these additional benefits that they didn't even know they were going to get until they had made that transition The computer could do things like tab completion of their name so that they didn't have to write their name a hundred times a day This is a scenario where we're talking about thousands of people having to leave work on Friday and Sign their name on a paper record and then show up on Monday and use a brand new system Like this wasn't a like it's rolled out over time. It was one day. They had a new system. They had to use And so I talked to both of them a little bit about what that experience was like for them and and how they how their organizations kind of dealt with that and what they ended up doing in both cases was the Company that produced the software that they were using in this case called epic both places actually Came out and performed training for Staff at the hospital what the hospital did was Elect one person from every team or department to go and attend this training and this person would spend I think they ended up doing kind of like, you know A four hour four hours in an afternoon once a week for like two months And they would go in and they would do this training with the people that wrote the software. They would make use of it The people writing the software would get feedback based on the training They were providing in order to try to make it easier to use the software. So there's kind of a big win there and then The hospital ended up with a group of core People that had all been trained on the software and were now expected to come back to their department and help Get that department up to speed and so in this case epic would provide the They call them super users Would provide the super users with the training that they needed and also with materials that they could take back to their department To help educate them. This is how you're going to be keeping records And it sounds like it worked out pretty well They so they would do that you go it's a nice way to really rapidly Teach people a bunch of stuff because you don't have to have a scenario where you've got 200 people in a classroom, which is tough You can have 10 people in a classroom and then they can each go teach 10 more people And I think that there may be some opportunities for us and for our community to leverage that The other thing that both my dad and my wife said a lot about this was there was a lot of fear in people Baking this transition. There were a lot of nurses that had spent 20 plus years charting on paper and now had to switch to electronic medical records and a lot of them that were near retirement just decided to quit Instead of switching to the new system because they it wasn't really worth it to them They had two more years to go before retirement. They could do an early retirement or whatever the case was I think the lesson there though is that We should expect some amount of people to just say, you know what this isn't worth it to me I'm not going to learn it and we should be okay with that like If some people in the community decide that they just don't want to learn this new thing, I Guess that's their problem Yeah So I think this ends up being a good way so the question is why why was this a good way of doing it and I Ultimately, I think the the answer for what they were seeking was a way to really rapidly educate a lot of people with it And the thing that they benefited from the most was this concept of the super user who got Professional training and then was able to come back to their department and teach their department Just the things that you needed to know in that department And then the other thing that they did was the week that the system rolled out everyone that was a super user wore a green shirt and so for that entire week If you had a problem you knew to go and ask someone wearing a green shirt And then they had people wearing blue shirts and blue shirts were people that actually were Engineers on the software and so it's like if you really have a problem Find the guy with the blue shirt Yes, we are yep If I analyze your answer in a few things I hear a few things That's your training doesn't need to be Contained everything you may You should at least start with what you need to know first right for your immediate work And then have someone to fall back on to to get to get additional information I also hear somewhere between the lines that to see someone using the system and which Gives my gives the people who don't know It's Encouragement motivation that it can be done. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's for for bridging the the gap of fear So to see people working with it. Oh, yeah Right, it's this like my co-worker who I know and I trust and we like to go out to happy hour together Did this thing and they're still alive like it must be possible Yeah, I think that I think that there's that's a good observation And so one of the my ideas based on this What's been going on or what I've seen in that Lesson is that kind of wondering is there a way that our community can Learn from that and do something as well and one of the things that came to mind for me was Kind of based off of the stuff that the Drupal ladder people have been doing which to me is really like they're figuring out ways to Leverage the fact that we have all of these really awesome Local communities and leaders in those communities who are willing to take the time to do things like Teach people steps from the Drupal ladder And and so I have it one of the ideas that from there was that could we replicate this idea of Training super users and then sending them out to their Department and having them train the department within our community and if we do that what would that look like I recognize that a community of volunteers has some Interesting hurdles like the fact that you're not getting paid to attend the training But I think that if we made it small enough in bite-sized chunks and interesting enough That people may be willing to to pursue something like this. And so my idea is what if we were able to Get together a core group of people that we're willing to spend the time on a monthly basis Putting together like a 15 or 20 minute curriculum on some specific topic working with the Initiative owner for what you know something or working with the person in our community who is the expert on that to ask them Questions like why is this thing that you're so involved in important if you could teach people one thing from it What is the thing that you would teach them and you know kind of some questions like that and distill it into a 10 or 15 slide Presentation and then provide a if it's code maybe provide example code to go with it Maybe even provide activities and then an answer sheet for the activities So this core group of people could write these little miniature curriculums and then once that's put together We could solicit users or someone from various local user groups and say hey on the first Tuesday of every month, we're going to Have a Google Hangout where the people that put together this curriculum and the expert from our community Will come and present this curriculum to you and answer all of your questions about it And then we just ask that you would take this back to your local user group and spend 15 or 20 minutes Sharing that information with them So I think that It's possibly something that that could be interesting and we could try to make work I some of the hurdles to me with that are a little bit of the like PowerPoint karaoke Like you're given somebody else's slide deck and then expected to present it I think that if we keep them short and to the point and and also That's an area where you've gotten to see somebody else give the presentation once and explain to you What each of the slides is might help with that I think that we have a lot of people in our local user groups that would be pretty willing to do this And there's a really big benefit to them if they're willing to come and Attend this like hey teach me about these slides. They had an opportunity to hang out with the people that wrote this aspect of Drupal it and really know what they're talking about and they're Creating you know building karma. They're creating connections with people for themselves that they'll be able to go and ask Larry when they have a question about Drupal 8. Hey, I know he did this I'm gonna ask him that question and you know the truth is in our community We can't answer everybody's questions But we're more likely to help answer questions for people that are going we know are going to take the answer and then teach everybody else So I think there's some opportunities there I Just wanted one of the things to with this like if we do some kind of a hangout and do the presentation To people who will present that can also just be recorded and played back And then a conversation will happen around it There's a lot of people are terrified of presenting and like even with the Drupal ladder like we have like a Lightning talk video that you can take to your local user group and just play the video and I'll explain to you what everything is and then everybody can talk about that and some of the information So they don't even have to stand up in the front of the room and have everybody stare at them while they try to Replicate the thing that they saw so just even recording those and distributing those two groups But making sure you still have like this point of contact in that group who will do it and is sort of seeing the presentation And being able to ask questions and then feels more comfortable Being this person that people can okay. That was cool. But what does this mean? so anyway Yeah totally and like the Point of contact thing to me it was kind of like I didn't really feel like we had to designate one person in every user group That was the always the point of contact, you know I imagine in the the Minneapolis user group We would probably do something like elect a person who is going to each month go and learn the thing and then come back And teach us because we all like to take turns But it could also potentially be beneficial for businesses too Like if your company is willing to send someone to attend this training for you know four hours on a Tuesday afternoon and then they can come back and Have some material that they can use to teach the rest of their co-workers. That's pretty awesome So is it one of my interesting ideas It does bring up this aspect. I think with education around Drupal and Trying to figure out the place of a community and the place of a company in education and there are certainly I Think one of the big problems that we're running into you right now is there is there's a Difference between the things that a company that has money and pays their employees and can dictate what they do Can do when it comes to education and what we as a community of volunteers are able to do My example of this is when Drupal 7 came out I had the privilege of getting to go on the web chick tour with Angie and the two of us spent About two months putting together a two-day training Paid for so we had time to work on it during our work hours and then work sent us around all over the US Giving this two-day training and that's just and it was really beneficial I think to everyone that was able to attend it But it's not something that a community can really do like I don't really see our community being able to raise the money to send a couple of trainers around You know randomly giving trainings here and there and so there's a little bit like that kind of becomes the domain of a company potentially So kind of keeping that in mind I think when we have discussions about training in the Excuse me training in the Drupal sphere is that there's a difference between We're the community and I am a company All right, so now you're like sufficiently motivated to help train people on Drupal 8 Some of my ideas about things that that you can help out with as an individual We can continue to improve our API documentation We can continue to improve change notices update the handbook write blog posts tell people while you're excited about Drupal 8 And how awesome it's going to be for them once they learn how to use this new tool So I think those are kind of the some of the key things that we can be doing there and Then I think as an organization as a company that employs people and can fund things Make sure that you're giving your employees time to learn Drupal 8 like you can't expect them to just show up to work on Monday and know how to use Drupal 8 You have to build into their work time hours where they get to teach themself or take training to learn this stuff Another thing that companies can do if you have people on staff that are Being given time to learn Drupal 8 a really great way to give back to the community would be to also give them time to Go teach their community about Drupal 8 And then of course I think companies can in a way that a community just can't can help fund a curriculum development Can help fund on-site trainings can help fund public workshops all of these things that require like Financial backing in order to have a space like this to be able to do a training like sure as a community We could probably write a really great curriculum, but it's hard without some kind of funding to find the space to make Those trainings happen Oh Why did I put this slide here? What is this about? I think that We're talking about this and it's obviously really important. I would really like to see our community make Education of people are teaching people about Drupal 8 a first-class problem I would like to see it raised to the same level of interest and like amount of resources getting dedicated to it as something like Configuration management like it is as important Configuration management makes it Drupal 8 great if people 8 if people don't know how to use Configuration management it might as well not exist And so I think that there's an opportunity for us to hear especially at this point in Drupal 8's release cycle to really kind of elevate this to a problem that as a community becomes really important to us Isn't it isn't just something that we happen to talk about in passing now and then So I said a bunch of things I Talked about things that we're already doing and how we can improve them including mostly written documentation and how as a community Like that's a really easy thing for us to work on updating I talked about how it's really important for those of us that are in the community and excited about Drupal 8 to Help sort of distill some of this fear and uncertainty around Drupal 8 so that we're providing a comfortable and safe environment for people to start learning in I Talked about being able to look at other examples and gave or look at other Companies or people that have been through this process and gave one example that I've looked into about how we can do with that and we talked about providing ways for individuals and companies to help with the education stuff so Now we get to open it up for discussion. That's some of my ideas. I would love to hear other people's ideas So first off for this, you know, train the trainer hierarchy thing count me in sweet So, you know, if someone wants to run that I'm happy to talk about it, you know, happy to be part of that I Think One of the problem I've now run a Drupal 8 training twice, you know, one was a two-day one was a two-hour Yeah And I think one of the biggest challenges that I'm running into is There is a lot of base concepts that overlap with each other and You know in order to really get what you're doing you need to understand, you know, five to eight things conceptually and I've been really having a hard time figuring out the order in which to do those so that it makes sense and You know, you know, how do you give examples and hands-on before you go do those concepts? And if you do those concepts first people get bored before you get there. Just that bootstrap process there I think it's gonna be really important. I haven't figured it out yet Could you could you give an example maybe so All right We were doing if you want to build a form in Drupal 8 That's a class with name space. It ties into routing It may tie into dependency injection specifically the container injection interface That's and you can be saving to CMI that's five right so there's so many different things you have to know Yeah, and I don't know yet just the order of dependency here in order to You know be able to teach that most effectively Yeah, I think that's gonna be a big challenge just collectively. I agree. I think that that like that is an important Thing like figuring out what are the base concepts you need to know and figuring out how to teach those I would also say though that this isn't a new problem Like it was the same in Drupal 7 you had to learn how hook menu worked before you could make a page Then you had to learn how hook form API work or form API work before you could put a form on the page So there's still a lot of different Concepts that we need to learn and part of it is just being able to identify what those are and catalog them And then figure out what's the scent like what order makes the most sense for people to learn these things in yeah I don't know, but I know that I don't necessarily either But one of the major things we need to work out is just you know, what is the optimal path to bring people in through Yeah, so maybe the like actionable task here is let's start creating a list of the sort of base concepts that people need to understand You know before they can really hello, yeah, these three things. What are those? Yeah? So I have some high-level feet or high-level ideas and feedback and some examples So I was always interested in community management and how to do things and how to roll out stuff and how to organize things And I recently a few months ago had had several revelations after I read a book that I plugged Multiple places and Jess already knows about that and I and I got several key members in the community to read it So Alex Bronstein for example, it's just reading and we talked about it yesterday And he it's parking a lot of ideas in him So you have this great idea about the epic rollout and that book has 50 or 60 of those things of those examples Oh awesome is chip and then Heath switch the book title switch The authors are chip and then he okay, and how to make change when change is hard And they have a lot of examples of how you how you make very hard changes when you are not the boss And you seemingly have no power at all And still you can like save species or you can save cities or you can get people to come to your car wash Or you can get kids to take medicine for cancer So there's a lot of great examples the example is you could save a species or you could get your car washed Both big changes for some people Yeah, so so a lot of those examples there and some things that I started doing afterwards For the multilingual initiative is I figured that Drupal 8 is very scary for a lot of people So I started to do bite size while I wanted to have bite size articles They are long articles But I started writing tidbits and I'm at 14 I think or 15 and I'm still like only halfway into all the changes around multilingual and It's getting people very excited about all the small things that like step by step So they have like a digestible piece And I figured I need to get people to work on some of issues related to those problems So I always couple them with lists of links of issues that are still outstanding. Yeah, so here's the new here's the good news for you Here's the bad news for you But if this gets fixed here's how it's gonna be even more these are all the good things I'm maybe these are bad so you can still fix them So I get get people involved through there as well And I also learned to respect all the work that my team does better So I I invested a lot in improving my slides and the design and the delivery and the figures and all of that in there And just like consolidated down so it's much better presented and and the team gets a lot more visibility So I very much agree that we should do a lot more And it just becomes this very positive experience for everyone like you for the team for everyone that gets to read about it And so now all of a sudden they're like well, that sounds really cool not oh god I don't want to go there and it's amazing what that does for someone's interest in learning something Yeah, I totally agree and I I also will point out that I think that even in the last couple of weeks We there's been a ton of really good articles and blog posts that are Talking about all the really cool new changes in Drupal 8 and you know talking about them in a way that is like This is really great and positive and here's why it's great not this is really great But here's all this cruft that you need to worry about And and I think we'll continue to improve doing that as well. Yeah, awesome. Thank you. I will definitely check that book out Yeah, I'm gonna have to read it too at this point Because everyone else is So that there's two things that I I just wanted to highlight Well, because if you're here at this session, you're probably interested in these topics. Um, actually just one thing anyway, um, so tomorrow tomorrow, um Web chick and FL GenC and I are doing a lab on upgrading modules to Drupal 8 So we're it's different from it's not like larry's module like write a module the Drupal 8 way. It's larry's talk Sorry, uh, the idea is that, um, give people the tools they need To start porting the module and so it's like you have a slide That's almost exactly like a slide from our desk, right? So it's like, you know Get people but what we're doing is we're making them in the room Create that 8x branch of their project and push it to Drupal.org. So that's done like you're there. You've had to do it now Um, but anyway, so we're gonna try to we're teaching people how to upgrade modules to Drupal 8 But then we're also going to try to garnish from that Things that people have trouble with and then following that session Um, we're I'm doing a boff ish. I mean, it's like after hours boff in that room until they kick us out So like if you're interested in this topic, it's um, you know, just come to like there's it's upgrade your lab Model to Drupal 8 lab. Just come to 6 p.m. At the end to that same room Um, and we'll we'll be there. So that's I remember not and then the other thing like about The thing that I'm the goal I set for myself about from being positive about Drupal 8 Is that you know, I would just make a nice tweet once a week. Like I mean, you know, I It's it's so easy to smile and and like say hey, this is awesome, but we just need to do it a lot. Yeah Yeah I think that you were talking a little bit about the like the session that you guys have tomorrow and update updating people's modules to Drupal 8 and Being able to learn lessons from them while they're attempting to update it and I think that that would be a really cool side benefit to our community of this like making education more important is that we Every time you teach somebody how to use some system you learn about all the things in that system that suck and I I learned to Drupal Long before I started teaching people how to use it and and then I'd start teaching these classes and people would just be like This is so bizarre. Why do you do it that way? I'm like, I don't know. That's just the way we do it And then I would stop and be like you're right. That is really bizarre and it could be better But for me, it's just so ingrained And I think that if our community spent time like investing in Creating these educational resources and stuff. We're going to bubble up those issues a lot earlier We're going to bubble them up while we can still deal with them not, you know, 10 months after the product's been released So you mentioned the change notices being A better step forward than the the great list of things that change But how useful is that for someone who, you know, they have their modules and they want to come and upgrade them But we're not expecting them to go and read 3 000 change notices But if we're if we're starring things like how much of a dependency on knowing what came before is there? So, you know, you star this post on cmi and you know, this is how it works But it changes six months down the line and like how far down this chain of people are going to have to look and How are we going to address? Like where are they going to go in together? Yeah, and I guess I I don't really know the answer to that question and part of my part of my big problem with change notices is there are just there is such a Volume of them that it's really hard to figure out what's going on. They're a great resource for I already know that I need to make this change. Here's where I can figure out how to do it um I think that I don't think it's really any different in that sense than the giant Page that listed all of the changes between Drupal 6 and Drupal 7 You can search now, which is kind of helpful But it still doesn't mean you're going to find the thing that you're actually Interested in yeah, and I feel like it holds this historical record of things that aren't necessarily Important right because I you know, it doesn't really matter to me how cmi worked two years ago I just but it's also like like documentation is Organic right we don't star something once and then leave it starred forever as soon as it's important We need to make it un unimportant un important And so part of that maybe is just a maintenance issue But it's definitely a good point is like there there's all these change logs that are like The thing that we changed before changed again It's like okay So we're trying to fix that but it's quite a process because I don't think any of us really anticipated that We would be rewriting the change notice for the entity api ten times over the course of the release cycle But so we are we do go back and When there is a change notice for a previous version of some api change We go back and say update the existing change notice instead So we are trying to do that There's still a lot of them and there's probably duplicates out there And I think it's probably going to be a sprint someday to just like have a group of people power through and make Sure that we reduce that as much as possible But they are searchable and you know the process that we ask people to use is like You know try something when you get an error message and it breaks search for the keyword What I think would be great is if we had a way to Have people identify the thing that broke for them that that change notice helped them fix And I don't have an idea in my head of what that is yet I mean they are commentable so you can put comments on them But the comments I don't think are indexed so that doesn't really help But that's that's something that's been like in the back of my head for a while I think maybe we also need to remember that like Change notices aren't An educational tool for someone that is just learning the system They're an educational tool for those of us that already know how to do things in Drupal 8 And we need to transfer our knowledge or sorry in Drupal 7 and need to transfer our knowledge to Drupal 8 And they're a good resource for people that are just getting started because they contain a lot of useful information Like background information if you want that but they're they're not the You should go and learn Drupal 8 by reading the changelog Yeah, the change notices. I think we have not done as good a job, especially recently about Grouping them logically at the moment change notices are targeted at an audience of people who are tracking Drupal 8 They're not targeted people who are going to be coming from 7.20 to 8.0 And that's something we definitely need to clean up there and probably consolidate like a third of them So it's there's a lot of work still to do there And probably a lot of them should be changed to be much smaller and just be links off to other documentation Another good resource Just for concepts As an article I was reading recently. I can't remember in which paper I believe the title was How good ideas propagate? and I'm just talking about why certain Good ideas in medicine got picked up by doctors within a year and others took a generation And then looking at you know, how you how you change medical practices across an entire country And there are two main things that it pointed out and I would retweet the article if I can find it again one People doing things will change their approach or mindset only if they see an immediate benefit They will not you know just on their own if they can see the example It had was doctors using ether for surgery which meant oh good I can perform surgery and the patient is not flailing and hitting me in the face and screaming at me This is something the doctor benefits from immediately and so they're all going to do it antibiotics And sterilization during a surgery keeps the patient from dying six weeks later So the doctor doesn't see the benefit themselves. So it took a generation of hard education to make that change No And when you have that case the thing that makes the change personal contact People don't listen to Broadcast and get ideas from broadcast that change the way they think People listen to this person. I already know who I have coffee with Suggests this this person I'm working with who's coming into my hospital to train me in How to take care of newborns so they don't get hypothermia Just taught me this and I internalize it that person the person contact is important and is necessary for Changing mindset and changing approach and that that's what I really like about this You know network effect and the tree idea that we can have that kind of phone tree of um My Drupal support tree. Yeah Or you know Or um pyramid scheme either way Some of both I think yeah, we'll trick you into learning Drupal aid Excellent, um, but it's just that you know doing things in you know user groups of 20 people um It's going to be more effective than a training lab with 200 people because you can have that personal contact So we need to make sure we can scale it Out that way rather than you know, 2,000 person trainings have lots and lots of 20 person trainings That that will just have I think a much better effect I'm pretty much more much more cost effective and time effective and just get the message across better. Yeah I definitely agree with you on that Hi Joe. Hi, you said that you wanted to hear our first experiences when learning Drupal 8 I'm gonna Sit somewhere as mine. I started like with seven I started reading patches on the issue cues and seeing when I could jump in and help And after like three days trying to read issues. I realized I didn't understand a thing of these patches There were many things that I didn't understand So I decided I had to step back Uh, I read like the symphony two book Then I did a website on symphony just to play with it and then after a month or something I went back to the issue cue and I said, oh, this is an aim space. Yeah, this is the controlling around I've seen this before. Yeah, of course. Now it makes sense. I also read the php 5.3 release notes And I what I was what I realized with that is that without those basic foundations It's really hard for anybody to jump in and help. It's not like when we were turning from Drupal 6 or Drupal 7 Now you need more background now you need to stop for a bit and read before jumping in I think yeah I I've had a few conversations about this same thing and like the background that you need And I don't know if I would necessarily say you need more But you need a different background than you needed for Drupal 7 And I know for me when I first started playing with Drupal 8 stuff and Trying to record a video about how to make a module all these things kept coming up When I was trying to learn about it that I was like, what what is this? And I'd search on api.drupal.org and nothing would come up and eventually I'd learn Oh, this is just a php thing that I wasn't aware of and so there there's certainly that aspect of it too like Um, we are switching to some new programming paradigms. We need to make sure that Probably we need to make sure that we're pointing people at the already written really good documentation and books about those things and maybe also um helping them know that like It's worth it to go and take the time to Learn php even if you think you already Learned it because there are new concepts or there are just different ways that were the funny things that they're not that new They have been there for ages. Okay, they're new to me other technologies Of course, of course, but other technologies have been have been implementing this So my when I was telling these two people on on events They were like, oh, I need to read new stuff and study Yeah, but the thing is that all the technologies are doing this. So if you don't know them it means that You know, when you move on to all the technologies, you're gonna make use of that same concepts and I think in that too is this cool idea that um By Getting people excited about learning those or one of the things we can do to get people excited about the fact That they have to learn that you can you know return a new static method from Whatever inside of whatever php stuff. I don't even know how to explain it is that They're they're learning skills there that are going to be applicable in other places as well and not just like Oh, you have to learn this thing because Drupal. It's like, hey, you get to learn this cool new Way of doing things and new technology not necessarily new technology new to us technology or way of doing things that Could be relevant in a lot of other contexts too. So let's talk about that more and let's you know So that people can get excited if I'm gonna invest 10 hours in learning These php concepts It's really good to know that I can use them in other places too like symphony or Whatever, you know, whatever other Framework or cms. I may be interested in working with as well. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you Hi, hi, so, uh, I I definitely was thinking about making sure people know some of the basics of php 5 and object-oriented programming that You know, we tend to be so Drupal focused, um, you know, we need people to kind of step back and so I I'm totally in agreement with him and The other thing that I think we need to figure out is I want to do the super user Proposal that you have there, but we need more resources to send people to after the session Um, I people are just clamoring. They're like, well, where do I go to find out about this and this and that? and I'm like You know, so you can write it. Yeah And then it'll be there next time So I'm glad that you mentioned the example modules and I I do think that's something we could focus on to give people Some example code to just help them grasp what kind of code am I going to write? There's there's been a lot of movement on those recently too, which is nice And there's also been some pushes to put aspects of the examples module into Drupal core so that they continue to stay updated Um, but whatever this case may be I think that It is time for us now to update those like and then one other plug I was talking to Morton earlier today and he wants to do an examples type module for front-end developers To know how they could start using Drupal 8 and twig. Yeah, that would be great. That's going to be coming along You know, so many people learn learn from being especially in open source We learn from being able to look at examples and copy and paste them And there's you know, there's all this like fear about being able to learn how to do things the new php way It's like well, you learn how to do them the old php way by copying and pasting it and then and learning it And I sure we'll lose some people, but I think a lot of people are perfectly happy to Repeat that process if it exists The examples module I personally I've mixed feelings about it But leave alone the personal feelings what I see in in in learning and also my experience this afternoon in in Larry's Very short training Is that example code is part but Also, you need overview. Absolutely. That is often missing in The scattered information that we have or that open source is usually have Which you find back in books or in training courses where you got an overview and introduction And this is this is the picture we're painting that now you got your example code So like we do a good job of Documenting these like discrete things that you might be trying to do but not as good a job at saying here's how you put all of those together Into the like a system those those graphics personally to help me because they give me a picture. Oh, this is the process Oh, and I'm not here. I'm at the end. Okay. Now. I know where I'm where I am One of the one of the things that I've seen andruple.org that I really really liked was um people writing I don't remember. I think it was maybe the book module But there was a bunch of documentation written about like this is how the book module works now And it wasn't just like here's how it was updated and the things that changed it was like Here's how dependency injection is used within the book model and it's like Link to the resource that explains what depends dependency injection is but we also need to explain like Not just what it is, but how you use it in the greater context. Yeah, the what and why? Yes, exactly Yeah And there's another thing While we are at the point that we that we all have to learn as trainers have to learn droopa eight Up to extent that we can explain it and we have a training curriculum for it I hope that there will be more exchange of those those the training information I I we Made our own training course for triple six use that for triple seven, but now we Well at least 50 percent we have to start over again and maybe 80 percent we have to start over no problem, but Then we can share we can perhaps we can start sharing information and just publishing it On the Lado or well, yeah, that's definitely something I would like to see more and then share more Of the information. Yeah, like we don't have to Work out the whole training. You and I are already writing the same curriculum. Yes. Why don't we why don't we talk about it? I know I know every every double condizion discussions comes up. Yeah, we have to start sometime That article like I was talking about it's called Um, how do good ideas spread who's in the new yorker? I just tweeted a link to it. Perfect my account. Awesome. Have a look Along the line of the examples module, there's a similar resource that does already have code in although it's in a much smaller scope um, the the pants project Dribble the dog slash project slash plants is it's what we're using in our lab tomorrow. So, um, what um, what alex bronze seems is He went through um Then there's a new branch for prog so if you do look at it Be sure to look at the prog branch because branches for previous triple cons are extremely stale and not working cool Um, but so what what it does is he goes through very carefully the process of porting a module Um starting from you know the beginning step of My module doesn't show up on the page Oh that has to do with my info file and then he references the change notice for the info to yaml conversion in his commit message In that in that get history. Yeah, so it starts off in the very beginning there And then he has um tags periodically throughout the commit history that indicate when each milestone was made So like this is when I at you know, I finished my controller and my page glowback was working and and you know This is when I got my configuration form working in so on and so forth It's actually it's actually a really great resource and we're not you know We're only going to be covering like the very very high level in our lab Um, but for people who want to drill in more, there's actually they can go step through commit like so This is a good resource for people that are trying to figure out how to port their But in the end in the final case it also has examples of basic API Yeah, which is is awesome. I also get a little bit concerned about like Uh, the discoverability of it people already know about the examples project That's like a ton of people know of its existence are already using it as a resource for Drupal 7 And I would like to see us get that right now Like if you if you want to if you're looking for a resource to share with someone right now That has an example of the you know the 80 use case of what a Drupal a little Drupal module does You know, that's that's a resource that's there and we've you know There's there's been a there's been a lot of time put into it. So it's cool He even has examples of of making C tools plugins into a Drupal plugin. Oh man. It's fancy complicated I just wanted to mention real quick in terms of that sharing curriculum stuff That's something that I think I am personally we as a team that Drupal is being really interested in as well And um, we've actually for Drupal 8 we've actually already started With jess and chris shattuck and joan myself We are we have a curriculum that we're developing in github. It's it's a github account under jess's github account Where we're starting to outline videos that we can make Together as a collaborative effort and the curriculum is on github and just available for anybody who wants to fork and help with that curriculum And as we build that out, we're going to start releasing videos on that material and It's been interesting to try and collaborate across You know, we have our way of doing things and chris has his way of doing things and jess has a lot of information and all of us coming together it's At times awkward, but it's interesting to figure out how to create a curriculum together in that collaborative way So if anybody's interested in doing that that I think we all end up with something better As a result for having gone through all of that We are like five minutes and 17 seconds over time right now So I just wanted to point this out real quick. I'm guessing most of you is in core If you're interested in learning droopy late, these sprints are a great way to learn something about you know What's going on? They're also a really great opportunity to get to teach somebody about droopy late And I'm guessing you're probably attending this session because you're interested in teaching people about droopy late So this is a good chance to do so And also that I I will be there on Friday in the for the first half of the day I'm going to be helping out with the workshop in the morning But then in the afternoon if people are interested in continuing this discussion I will be around and more than happy to Continue talking about Learning droopals stuff Um And then the obligatory Please go and rate my session slide That's what I got and I will also happy to stick around and answer questions outside But um it is six o'clock. So if you feel like leaving and going to have a beer you could do that as well Ta-da Hey, good boy Could you like Tweet the name of that book or that would be awesome. I would love to take a look at it