 Welcome, everybody. It's three o'clock Swedish time anyway, or central European summer time. And it's time for this latest webinar, which the topic this time is open education for refugees. It's about social inclusion, empowerment, and so on. This webinar is being provided by a number of projects and organisations, primarily the Moonlight Project MOOCs for Social Inclusion and Employability. We're also part of the EDEN webinar series. EDEN is the European Distance and E-Learning Network. And this also part of ITHU, which is the Swedish Network for IT and Higher Education, and also the Nordic Network for Adult Learning, NVL. So it's actually under four flags this webinar. So welcome, everyone. You've come from one of these networks. So it's good to see a nice gathering. There are now 46 of us in this room. We had about 110 registered a couple of an hour ago. So welcome, everybody. You probably heard the idea that open education, the people who need open education most generally don't know anything about it and don't know it exists, and are not able to take advantage of it. The situation in Europe and around the rest of the world today is that we have a real reason for developing open education, but we need to make people aware of it. And these people are primarily refugees, asylum seekers, people who are displaced or disadvantaged in some way. We have to try and make open education, and in particular MOOCs available to them, help them to get on board and find ways of making them actually useful to them. And we're going to start the discussion today. We'll be continuing with several more webinars during the year on this topic. So I'll just explain that so far we've got three guests in the studio, you could say, virtually. My name is Alistair Creelman, by the way. I come from Linneas University in Kalmar in the southeast of Sweden. And I'm a member of all these four organizations, in particular the Moonlight Project. With me, I have Paula. Thank you so much for the invitation. Give me a few words. And I also am to the project as well. And I look forward to sharing and learning with all of you today. OK, John, a couple of words of introduction. Good afternoon. It's great to be here. It's great to have the opportunity to share a few ideas and get some feedback. I'm based in the UK, as Alistair said, and as you can see from the map. OK, and Jennifer. Good afternoon. So I'm Jennifer. I am also working at Linneas University together with Alistair Creelman. I'm working with the validation of competency for asylum seekers and refugees here in Linneas. That's all. OK. OK, you'll be hearing from the three guest speakers in due course. They each have a short session. Will they be providing you with some input? And while you're listening to their input, try and think of questions to ask them. Think of points you'd like to make or follow up or discussion points. And after each short input, you'll get time to discuss with them, ask them questions and put forward your views. And for efficiency's sake, we will ask you to do that in a chat window and in poll questions. So it'll be very much text based interaction with you. So if you, if everybody is OK with that, it's nice to see the spread on the map there below us of people from all over Europe and even over in the USA. As I can see from the poll on the left, are you already using open education or refugee context? We have three examples of already in operation. It would be nice to get some links for those in operation. Four people planning to seven people considering and much the majority at the moment haven't started. And I think that's still quite symptomatic. There are a lot of projects going, but there are also a lot of people thinking about it. OK, it's time then to welcome the first speaker and it's John to give us a little bit of the overview on all this. So it's over to you, John. OK, Alastair, thank you very much. I suppose I'm here because of my involvement with the moonlight project and it probably would make some sense in talking about refugees to firstly to say something about my background and then something about what it is that MOOCs might be and what the idea could possibly mean. So I'm a professor of digital learning at the University of Wolverhampton in the Institute of Education and my specialism over the last 20 years has been mobile learning. In the course of the last five or seven years, I've worked extensively with UNWA, the UN Agency responsible for Palestinian refugees in the Middle East, specifically in Jordan, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria. And also with several British Council and Erasmus projects working with Jordanian and Palestinian universities. So in that sense, I'm very conscious of maybe some of the culture and the context and the conditions that many of the refugees come from. And I guess that informs quite a lot of what I say. I'm also conscious there are many other aspects of both MOOCs and of the refugee situation that I know very little about. But as I say, my contribution is to try and describe very briefly to people who are not familiar with them what MOOCs are. And in one sense, it's quite simple. And in another sense, it's quite complex and confused. It's quite simple because it just means massive open online courses. And they grew out of developmental work in Canadian universities some years ago. And I guess that portrays their, if you like, cultural background and begs questions immediately about is the whole phenomenon culturally and contextually specific? You know, did they work for Canada? Can they work anywhere else? Are they an essentially developed world anglophone phenomenon? And that might be, as it were, an academic question in the European University context. But outside the European University context, it's quite a significant question. So that's their background, North America. But to look at the words one by one, as this slide does, what exactly do they mean by massive? And that's a significant question partly because the original work in Canada was exploring the potential and the possibilities around massive connectivity and massive communities. So what exactly did they mean and is there a cut off or a threshold around this idea of massive? And as the slide says, is it 10 or 100,000 or whatever, you know? Secondly, what's the meaning of open? I mean, apart from anything else, does it mean free? Is there a distinction between free and open? Does it mean free or does it mean affordable? So there's the nature of openness is not straightforward. And it's certainly in other contexts of the open movement. We've seen a lot of diverse opinions and actually concerns about whether open merely privileges and gives resources to people who've largely got privileges and resources already. And again, refugees might not be the people with privileges and resources. So actually, is this an opportunity they can actually grasp or is it actually one that's denied to them for a variety of other reasons? It says online. And again, does that mean synchronous asynchronous? Does it mean kind of large amorphous and undifferentiated? Or does it mean somehow broken up into smaller groups that can interact at a more human level with each other? And then finally, what exactly does course mean? Does it mean a synchronous course with a start date and a stop date? Does it assume some kind of formative or summative assessment, some kind of accreditation? Is there a sense of community that builds up or is it a largely anonymous phenomenon? And certainly, whilst this might seem like kind of maybe hair splitting, it's important when we started looking at the MOOCs available to refugees or indeed those online offerings which portray themselves as MOOCs, where do they fit into this categorization? What are the answers to these questions? Are they conventional online computer aided learning? Or are they something more up to date, more responsive, more reactive than that? So those are a few questions about the meaning of MOOC and how it pans out in different communities. And you can see those questions being played out along this timeline as well and see the original idea being informed by, if you like, a kind of ideological notion of openness reflected in open source software, open content and being played out in the Open University and in MIT, specifically in them making their courses available. Then you have actually in the 2008-10 epoch the actual Connectivist MOOC itself coming on stream. And if you then look forwards in time, what you see is a kind of diversification as the original ideas and the original way of doing it became to a large extent corporate platforms for high quality media broadcasting and corporate training and various very sophisticated platforms being placed underneath the universities that are offering MOOC courses. So again, you can see a kind of diversification, people having different reasons, different ways of operationalizing the idea of a MOOC. And actually apart from anything else, still wondering exactly what the educational point is or the business case is. Is it just making everything available for everyone? In which case, how do we fund these things? Or is it a revenue stream in which case, what exactly is the nature of that revenue stream? To put that point a slightly different way, these are some of the large platforms underneath the current MOOCs being offered by a range of universities and you maybe could argue that Moodle is one of them or not. But certainly edX or Coursera or FutureLearn are. But you can see rather different characteristics across those different platforms. A radically different way of looking up the MOOC phenomenon, maybe a more kind of fundamentalist way is something we did five or six years ago from entirely free and open source software where we saw a vast number of people, I mean, sorry, 600 people, just finding out about it virally and taking part and it being a phenomenal experience of interactivity, of lots of very clever, fascinating people offering stuff for everyone else to learn from. So you've got this whole range of ideas about what a MOOC is, what it could offer, how you might deliver it. But just finally, they are largely an anglophone phenomenon with a very small number of technical platforms. EdRach is one of the few available in Arabic. And so that illustrates once you've broken out of the global north and the languages of the global north, there isn't very much available. And that's clearly a significant issue for people whose mother tongues aren't English, German or French. So I hope that's a reasonable summary of the issues. A word or two about Moonlight, we're a group of people interested in expanding social inclusion and employability through MOOCs for the refugee communities across Europe. Those are our partners, as I say, we're involved in higher education in one sense or another, either as discrete universities or consortia or social enterprises. And we have a number of activities and outputs, surveying what's available at the moment, looking for best practice, developing some tools and then developing some exemplar courses at our own universities and then synthesizing them across our various host universities in order to generate some guidelines for policymakers within the management and strategy of higher education. So that was a very brief and rushed run through of the possibilities that MOOCs offer in general and problems about what they might have to offer for refugees in particular. And I'll hand back over to Alistair now and see if anyone's got any questions. Okay. Now the chat is bigger. I wrote there on the chat at the end that all the slideshowers, you can download them if you so desire at the end of the webinar, so that's taken care of. So ideas about MOOCs and about them being used in this, how do we get MOOCs interesting to refugees? What are refugees' needs and can MOOCs actually supply something here? So far I think, John, a lot of the people involved in MOOCs have been in a way the people who, as I said earlier, probably least need them. They tend to be very much people with a university background, generally professional people who are wanting to sort of learn a little bit more about a new subject rather than opening up to people who don't have access to higher education. Yeah, certainly the successes in the UK have proved to be three-week long, six-week long, CPD professional development courses for people already in jobs with a specific career objective. And actually our experience with the MOBI MOOC one was that you need a fairly high level of digital literacy and subject knowledge to start with. The original idea was based around a lot of mutual interaction and contribution. And so people without that background or without the necessary digital literacy would sync without a trace. And I suppose that was predicated implicitly on the idea that all these people involved had access to the great kind of technology coverage connections as well, that they were sitting in front of high spec network desktop PCs. And certainly future learn has gone more in the direction of making it more device independent and mobile accessible. But that's a technological level rather than at the level of asking whether people have got the finance and the technology within their grasp. So I think there's a number of issues along those lines about what it is that MOOCs do at the moment and how is that relevant to what they could be doing for refugees? Yeah, I think there are several people typing here. We'll just wait till they come up. But I think the digital literacy thing and the access to infrastructure are two key questions. And I think that's possibly why many people have not been accessing open education. They simply don't know it's there. They don't know how to get onto it. They don't have anyone to help them. There's Johani asking a question. Yeah, I think there's a more general answer to Johani's question. And that is how little we might know about the expectations or the experiences of refugees. And that's not to bunch them all together and to say all refugees are the same, just that we don't know very much about how different they are, either from what we're expecting, what we're used to or from each other. And one of those expectations and experiences we might need to explore is their experiences of education or being in an education system of what education might consist of and why you might be having an education. You know, is it for a kind of liberal ideals about being a better person or to get you a qualification or to get you a job? You know, those three things might overlap and they might not, but we'd have to be very clear why is people come to MOOCs and what their expectations, their competences and their experiences are they bringing to the MOOC. Yeah, and as Francisca has asked the question, how do you measure starting level of refugees, their knowledge, skills, devices, internet access? Well, I think that's a question we certainly need to be asking and we probably don't have the answer to. And until we do, it's largely either prejudice or guesswork, prejudice meaning stuff we already do with our existing stakeholders and communities or guesswork stuff we think should work. But like I say, I think we have a very poor idea of actually what it's like to be living as a refugee, essentially before you've entered the formal system, before you've entered the procedures and formalities of Western European countries. Indeed, and Olivia very clearly, I think that's also a very relevant point that as I think our later speakers will point out, refugees want hard currency, they want something on their CV. I'm not even sure if I have CVs in the sense that we might mean it or that their expectations about how you earn a living are necessarily ones where qualifications are the root to it. The economic practices of wherever they've come from may be very, very different from the kind of institutionalized qualifications that we give that largely get people jobs in corporations or formalized businesses. True, but they're very keen to get into the new society and whatever is required but if MOOCs are not a way of getting in or getting recognized then maybe they're not so interesting. Okay, I think we can move on and actually from going to, I mean John's sort of overviews what are we talking about about MOOCs about open education and so on and some of the, it's not as simple as people think we often think that a MOOC is one particular thing and as you said it's very many things and it depends what sort of MOOC, what sort of course we're talking about. We're going to move on now to Paula and she's been working in the field also as John has done but she's been working in the field and offering MOOCs to refugees and has quite a lot of experience on this. If I could move over now to invite Paula into the discussion and your presentation should turn up next to us any second now and for those of you on the chat everyone out there as Paula is talking think of questions, think of some points and keep the chat going and you'll get time to ask her and make your points as soon as she's finished. So I'll hand over to Paula. Thanks Al, sir. Thank you so much once again for the invitation. What I'm going to present is the project that I'm currently working in Jordan and Lebanon and Syria and we have been working with the European Commission and this is funded by the European Commission and it's being commented by the British Council. Just a very brief overview about the project. It's a three-year project funded by the European Union. It targets Syrians so that is our main target group in refugees, Syrian refugees and also these advantage are in Jordan and Syrians in Lebanon in this case with refugees Syrians in Lebanon and also Syrians in Lebanon itself. The idea is that we have the language and the academic skills so moving from the language to bringing the refugees to the online accredited courses and also to the online short courses for foreign participants. This is a target group, a very specific target group that we have for 18 to 30 years old so it was something that we found that would be important to have this timeframe as they were lost within the education system and within their own possibility to learn and we are using, so following from what John has just said we are using MOOCs with the Future Learns so OER and also the Open Education site and MOOCs and SPOCs with a drug which is in Arabic so we have these two different partners working with us. What we have decided was that MOOCs can mean, as John said, lots of different things so what we created it was what we considered our own working definition for MOOCs what are MOOCs for our group and for what we are doing so participants is part of larger cohorts not only in the project but they can come and join the larger cohort in terms of the MOOC the participant will attend the MOOC within the date provided by the MOOC provider or in case of the self-paced course when we launch the registration the participant will go to the learning center whenever he or she needs because one of the things that we came across is the accessibility and having access to the internet so it was a major consideration how they could access it and I'll be going back to that question that Francisco has asked a few minutes ago the participant will be provided for participation and will also issue an open batch so it was a way for us to define what it was regarding SPOCs we define it in a different manner so dates will be defined by the British Council the participant will be part of the small cohort and we have great small classes with other participants registered within the project it becomes part of the specialization and what it did it was create an employment specialization and when I'm saying create it was the EDRAC they had already several MOOCs that we can see that could be part of the employment specialization and we launched it as a specialization so it was a way of using whatever we have and make the most of it without extra costs it's supported by facilitators so we have someone we're supporting the learner during the SPOC while it's taking place it is a clipped classroom and with community-based learning and active methods so we involve them in the community most of them this is taking place in learning centers which are located in Amman in Zatterley refugee camp and we'll be launching shortly in ASRAC refugee camp as well and we'll issue a participant certificate in the end what did it do as a pilot? just check how it would go and then see how it could move on and it was very interesting because we start having learners finding themselves also jobs inside of the refugee camps main challenge is that we had to face internet access it is a major challenge especially inside of the refugee camps for security reasons the location because it requires for them to move with the learning center for instance it requires the refugees to move to that learning center and that poses constraints in terms of transport the language the mobility so it's a very mobile group which means that they are in one place and the next week or the next day they can be somewhere else with some of them going back to Syria and coming out of Syria going to a different country so that is something that we need to keep exactly so now it could be local and cultural centers it could be a good place to use as learning centers the other thing that we came across is that they are not used to learning center approaches so they are very much used to teacher centered approaches which requires another mindset and that was the reason why you are using active approaches, active methods and also community based approaches digital literacy most of them and it was something that we did several surveys so we have around 95% of them who are using mobile phones with smartphones and we are talking about Syrian that is something that I want to make sure is that it's clear to all of you that when we are talking about refugees we have a huge we are totally different so please always have that in mind that when I'm talking about digital literacy in this situation we are talking about Syrian so they are very different with very different needs as you were saying so that is something that we always need to take into account and so this for instance these participants they have 95% of them are with smartphones 95% almost all of them they have a Facebook account and they are using WhatsApp so that is our reality with this target group and the other is the engagement all to engage them and all to keep them going and all that so these are the main constraints that we face retention MOOCs are very similar to the other context so we have about 5% to 7% retention rate in terms of our MOOCs when it comes to SPOCs then we have a 50% retention rate so we could see that there is a huge difference between using the typical MOOC or using a different approach as we did with SPOCs the employability specialization it has two participants already found employment inside of Zattery refugee camp for instance and it was just for the first module because the specialization goes from creating your CV presentation skills branding and just for the CV two of them were already able to find a job because of it so it was very, very yes, with the with the Clips classroom approach also so it's not just a small private so yes, exactly, so it was really a success for us and we are really happy about it I just wanted to finish my presentation with this phrase from one of our students in my mind I'm hopeful and always searching for opportunities to improve myself and those around me I thought in Azra camp I am in the future because my mind is in the future and I'm taking any opportunity that will help me to complete my studies which are interrupted by the war in Syria so I want just to share these with you so thank you so much great, thanks Paola so folks some ideas from you now I noticed there's been a few things in the chat there but so now in Belgium the local libraries and cultural centres are very important as learning centres for newcomers do you see that as a how do you see that Paola because we need where do we find these that sort of on the ground support in Europe my suggestion is just be creative and don't be afraid to ask because sometimes if we go there for instance in the case of Azra it was Kuze who was asking to other organisations if they could go there and have internet access with other organisations besides the partners that we had found because of the location because it was easier for them to go to that specific location because the camps are huge we seem to have lost you Paola I don't know if you can hear us but your connection has gone I can see some of the comments here that the dropout rate in MOOCs of course is notoriously quite low in many of these massive courses that you see reported on the media but with Paola they got 50% retention and more and that's very good but then they're generally very motivated again there's been a lot of discussion about the dropout rates in MOOCs over the years because what do you mean by dropout? Many of the people who so-called dropout of MOOCs never actually dropped in they just register and then never do anything so that you can't count them as dropouts I don't know if John or Jennifer could jump in here and help me with some of the questions and comments here because we have lost Paola at the moment it would be nice to Hi John, I mean you've been working also with the Palestinian camps and so on I mean there's Johannis asking Paola here about how are the participants communications used as a resource in the courses have you any experience of that? Part of my work recently was trying to identify what actually digital literacy might mean in the context of the Palestinian refugee community and I suppose I come up with a working definition which is not the same as everyone else's but it's actually something to do with a difference between what people can do and what people could do the kind of opportunities they might access if only they had this thing called digital literacy and clearly that's very, very context-specific very culturally specific and trying different solutions and see how it works and engage and needs analysis Paola has connected connectivity difficulties and I think it's out of sync at the moment she's actually in sync with our discussion let's see, do you hear us Paola? Okay, we're talking about there's also Katarina's point here there's a delay on you Paola of about five, six seconds which is due to your Wi-Fi probably Katarina is saying, John, that do you need the analysis and you find that the profiles are so diverse that it's impossible to start the course? Does that happen? Well I suppose I'd start from that assumption but then clearly that's not operationally very useful because you just end up with a kind of utter diversity and maybe you can look at overarching factors and some of those might be the kind of institutional and educational structures which people come from the kind of educational programs they've been through in school or college in Lebanon or in Palestine because that allows some basis for a useful generalization and then maybe also and that's not actually just generalizations about structures and institutions and organizations but also how those institutions and those educations deliver education what it looks like over there and again, at the risk of generalization it might be highly didactic content based transmissive and teacher centered and that's what it is however different it might be from what we do that's where we're needing to start from and I guess there's also generalizable remarks about differences in culture which cultures are more risk-taking or risk-averse or more individualistic or more collectivist and is that a basis for looking at generalized differences in the approaches we can take I mean I'm only trying to present operational ways to answer the question I don't think they're necessarily intellectually rigorous and they're only questions not answers, sorry about that Okay but did you find that the profiles were too diverse to allow you to do the course? From my side just to go back I don't know if you heard my reply to Katerina we did a need analysis that no it wasn't we were able to understand what was and that is one of the things because we used already communication so what we did it was we were using Facebook it was Google plus British Council website so those participants replied to the need analysis where people were already online so we got it allowed us to understand what were their needs and what they would like to learn so the program and the way we defined it was based on these trainees analysis if any of the calls would like to have it I can share with them the trainees analysis and so it was a great okay moving on we'd like to get really the refugee perspective and I'd like to invite Jennifer to put her video on and get the sound going and move on to her point because Jennifer is an asylum seeker here in Sweden and has been incredibly active in getting into the university and continuing her okay so good afternoon and so it is my pleasure to share to share with you my thoughts today and so what I'll be sharing what I'll be presenting is based on my own experience in working in the university as project coordinator for validation of competency for asylum seekers and refugees and aside from the fact that I myself is not even a refugee yet but still an asylum seeker so here it goes and I need my first slide okay so in my second slide there is this is what the refugees perspective so I myself I can say that education is the key to integration so I strongly believe that education will help the refugees and asylum seeker to rebuild their lives in their new host country because experiencing war is really tragic like hearing the bullets and gunshots that people on the street will really affect you psychologically and knowing like it's just a week of an eye everything that you have is gone so I think for having to integrate into the new host country will help them regain their knowledge and will help them regain their knowledge and enhance their skills and so they can also like align their skills in the educational standard the host country they are in and to be prepared in the labor market so I will share to you my my project so my project in the Nios University is called validation of competency for asylum seekers and refugees so we had our our pilot testing last year we started like February so this is called validation of competency for asylum seekers and refugees so we from the department of computer science in the Nios University initiated a validation of skills so our main goal is to bridge the gap of the asylum patient that asylum seekers acquired in their home country to the like for us Swedish educational standard so to make them prepare for the labor market so what we did is we are assisting them to get into the university to complement their studies so because most of them are interested to get into the university but they don't know what to do or they don't know how to start or when to start so for us we are assisting them like registering and creating an account into the university admission advising them what to do to fulfill the requirements and we also give them some validation test we ask them to assess themselves because we believe that the best thing who can assess you is yourself if you will be honest of course and some interview so we are doing this integration and so we come up with a pilot test so the next slide will give you like we categorize them into three main tracks so the first track is applicant with no college education we also have applicant with the applicant who started some college and some applicant who have finished their college education with some with some working experiences so in our pilot test we have a track for track one actually we started with like 14 applicants and due to various reasons these applicants did not for sure because some of them got a job there was no documentation so only eight proceeded so to follow the track one four applicants followed on track two and two applicants followed on track three and basically the one who just accepted or for sure is two applicants for our autumn 2016 class so they have started and some of the two of them has two different experiences so one of them cope up with the new learning process or the new learning system and the other didn't he found difficulty when it comes to distance education but it's hard for him to work alone so aside from this we also are working with asylum seekers and for asylum seekers we are also assisting them and since they do not have the capability or the capacity to pay for the tuition fee we have this scholarship program for asylum seekers and last test we have ten we gave ten scholarships for asylum seekers from our program also and for nowadays our applicants I am advising them to use MOOCs so I gave them links to Coursera and to other websites where they can learn even though they are in the asylum comes refugee comes so and then I asked them some feedback and most of the feedback I got so I will start with the opportunities or the advantages of using MOOCs for refugees so first is they can gain new knowledge and skills of course they can implement or deepen prior learning and they can challenge to think critically and interact with participants but this one is most of the one who can really do this are those who are familiar with the language so most of them who is enjoying the opportunity of bullet number three who can speak English and understand English fluently then they learn to empower themselves to create change they are giving just like it gives them hope because they are acquiring new knowledge through MOOCs and they discover new topics based on their fields they discover not actually new teachers but new teaching styles new ways of learning especially this MOOC and they can get certification somehow of course for this opportunity with the MOOC okay and then for the next slide I will give you the challenges for the challenges actually we have the three main barriers three main obstacles the technology the culture and the linguistics so for the traditional barriers so still though we are in the computer world nowadays but still there are people who are not into using computers so it's or they are not used to online learning so especially for elder people and some are the female participation is a bit low okay for the reason and then so the computer literacy so some are afraid to hold the computer because they don't know and for the refugee comms they said that facilities most of the refugee comms are not equipped with good computers and internet connection so some of them those who are really interested they are just using their mobile phones to access with the internet or even there's an internet connection in the camps sometimes and then of course the language barrier though but nowadays there are a lot of organization who are who started to develop MOOCs that will adapt the languages of the asylum seekers and refugees so like the Azraq so it's also in Arabic so it is really a good one and for the retention yeah that's what I saw that in Paula's presentation also which is really correct it's really hard for the retention yeah for the retention I'd like to bring in some of the participants if we've got a little bit of time here to just sort of get some questions rounded up quickly we have a question you want them to answer Jennifer here from your perspective what do you think is needed to help refugees in coping with the challenges of MOOCs and if you just go to that little square of the box and write a quick answer there what do we need Jennifer gave quite a lot of ideas there but the coping with the challenges what's the answer if you could put them in that box there there's a lot of stuff in the chat as well here Sonal and Krisanti are coming I don't know if you have time to read them Jennifer while people are writing in the other one how do we get more women involved thank you also there's something you do not address yeah what are you saying yeah so maybe by by inviting them to or let them feel that they can can be developed they can develop themselves because first thing also is they feel ashamed to participate because of perhaps the knowledge but we have to give them some support some motivation to participate because if you will feel welcome just like my own experience if you feel welcome into a group or into a society so you really like going to it but if you feel like not welcome so it's just like you will be yourself and you will just stay home yeah meaning we should adapt not adapt the learners yeah it's a complete idea getting some answers in here and then access to digital learning centers for support badges as sort of rewards for being involved support and feedback from mentors I think buddy systems seem to be popular as well getting some a trusted person to help you on your way maybe there's a lovely project in Sweden at the moment where refugee various refugees with my T skills are being used as mentors for elderly people and helping them get online so that it's like they're helping the older generation and it's giving them they feel good sharing their knowledge and the older people trust them yeah and in Vekko also the Rotary Club of Vekko they have this mentorship program for refugees and asylum seekers so there are like volunteers Swedish nationals in Vekko and they are partnering with trusted experienced people getting people to help each other but I think you need with a digital literacy matter and even with language you need a friend somebody you trust somebody you're close to that you can sort of ask the stupid questions that you wouldn't ask a sort of more person you feel is some sort of authority figure and I think in most European countries libraries, learning centers community centers churches, there's lots of organizations that can play a part in this and are already doing so there are some excellent projects around I'd like to invite Paula to come back into the interview because I'd like to round off our webinar time goes very quickly and I will just move over to a fight, oh sorry sorry I will move over to this view I just explain a little bit before we wrap up here please some comments on the webinar was it useful what would you like to know more about what sort, just general feedback is always excellent over on the right you'll see slides to download so you just click on whose slides you would like to see and upload file and you can collect them there are also some links to the organizations behind this down at the bottom right so final remarks from the three of you Paula any sort of a minute of final thoughts well just to let you know that I have already shared on the chat the link to the needs analysis so that you can you can have access to it as for the final thoughts is just that we need as John was saying is critical that we go for the participants, for the students and not the other way around adapted to address their needs to address their reality, to address the context that they are living right now the other thing that I would like to share with you is that and it's a little bit of we all could be in the same situation it all could be happened to any of us we just were lucky that we are in a different place in a different time because anything like this can happen to any of us and we are talking about human beings about someone with a specific name with a specific face with family, with kids, children with so please always bear that in mind when we are looking at providing solutions, providing service providing whatever you want to provide that there is a name there and there is a person besides just the name or the tag of refugee and I'll pass on to John and have a great day as well thank you so much John, thank you I guess I only say something very very similar actually that I'm conscious of how little we know and how we need to work together and find out more about what is needed but the only people really who are going to tell us that stuff are the potential learners themselves, the refugees and the refugee communities and the countries and communities from which they come and so I'm just very nervous about us jumping too quickly too powerfully too soon to assumptions to implementations to institutions to standards without checking, without finding out first we are only here to help and to serve Jennifer so anyway I just want to answer the one who asked for it's actually on my slide the one that I was supposed to do so what I can say is we are all doing refugee we are working with refugees and asylum seekers and even though we do little thing as long as it is coming to our heart it will be really appreciated by us so you can continue I realize that Jennifer's slide show that was in the slides to download down there that wasn't working I've now replaced it and if you click on her slides you will now be able to download it because I've just checked that it works and I hope it's the same for Paola's and John's it's unloadable even in the recording so if you don't manage to do it just now you can do it later so everything else works in the recording as well it's a little bit past four o'clock here and it's time to wrap up thank you everybody for being here oh does Linda want to say something about the conference in Gothenburg you have microphone rights hello everybody can you hear me yes so the conference in Gothenburg will be on the 12th of June and you are all welcome to come to Sweden if you have the possibility I can post the link again or actually if it's still here I'll just do it somewhere anyway it'll be at the beginning of the chat somewhere but you can put it in again and so the conference is free of charge I'm with the asylum migration integration funded project from the Swedish migration board it's a European project where we work with developing mobile technology for Arabic speaking migrants in Sweden so we will have Professor Agnes Kokolska home as the keynote speaker and also some other people speaking within our mobile learning and migration so you're all welcome to this conference and it will be really nice seeing you there okay thanks Linda from Gothenburg finally we'll be back with another webinar on the 30th of May with more on this topic we will mail you details in due course you will all get the link to the recording of the webinar fairly soon I can't promise if it's tomorrow or the next day it's not me that does it but very very soon you will also all get a badge for your participation that you can put on your LinkedIn profile or wherever you want to put it but you will all be receiving an Eden badge for participation thank you everybody for being here we'll hang on a little bit if you want to chat or say anything now open the microphones but now I'm going to