 But yeah, so on today's call, we're going to check in on membership and recruitment. Oh my goodness. On phone. And then here are a bunch of updates from about a bunch of our priorities from the city and talk about our strategic plan. And so, does that sound good? Um, and so first, if we want to review and approve the minutes from January 4th and January 18th, I think those were the most recent ones that we have minutes for a different world. Jeremy Bode we learn her all Helen Conn. Right. Well, I guess I'm the only one who was there. All second design. Sorry. Before we take any votes, just because of the committee composition, it appears that there are three vacancies. Yeah, the understanding so there are a total of eight members. Great. Okay. And so if that's the case, then you do not have a quorum. Okay, so it's of the total seats, not of the total participants. Correct. Okay. Um, Okay, so we will probably never ever again have a quorum. Well, that was the first thing on our agenda was just of talking about recruitment and membership. And so we, I've, I've had a couple of conversations with folks who maybe want to join, but I haven't heard anything that they've applied or that they're, they've been approved or I don't know what city council has looked at any applications or if there have been any applications. I can certainly check in with Mary to see what we have on file. I am not aware of anybody at this point that has applied, although I'm certainly happy to check and come back with that. Cool. Thanks. All right. How many people are we trying to recruit in order to get to a quorum at this point. We need to get okay. Right. There's three. Yeah, so based on the website, that's what it says. I do want to take a look back through our records. We are really reviewing committee membership and trying to streamline process in terms of, you know, all the things that, you know, this is dealing with recruitment retention, making sure that the terms are synced up, you know, making sure that we can get a really short things up and make sure that the process is really working. And so that being said, the only thing that I would want to do is just take a look back through the file and not necessarily rely explicitly on the website but based on what I can see here, that's what it is. The three seats. Well, yeah, for a total of eight. How is the recruitment been going for other folks anything to note. I sent out, I talked to Tom McCone I think I'm right. Yeah, he would mention it to his book group. I haven't heard from him and I don't know if you have. Anybody associate I don't know anybody on that. I mean, he didn't give me names. He just said he would bring it to his group and so share that around. I did send out one letter to another person that I know of, but I don't know personally and did not get any response at all. So, I guess that means no interest, but I mean, I reached out directly to two people from the community that I know and neither was is available right now to add anything on their plate. And I'll keep thinking about it. And I'm also recruiting for our advisory board because we're low on folks there so I've got competing interests, but I'm trying to think specifically about folks who would, you know, for this because it's such a specific, specific work. So I'm trying to think differently about those two ways that I'm recruiting and the people that I'm looking for. For example, and maybe this will be helpful to hear. I met with the Waterbury town manager and he is is hooked me up with somebody that he that will likely join our cab. So I'm going to go to like around in the other towns that we serve to get representation there so I'll think more focused around Montpelier specifically for C. I should, I should remind us all that the by the by laws, I guess, do not require a person to live in Montpelier to be on a Montpelier committee isn't that correct. Yeah, and I got two folks who I'm recruiting in Berlin and Barry so. Okay. Yeah. And we've had folks on the committee before outside the city. So, it's great. All right. Sweet. It would be sweeter if we had some results. We could take minutes. Okay. And so Kelly, can we dive into the stuff from you have just like the training for the city, the website, the city committee application update and stipends. Yeah, so taking it from the top with D I specific training that's being offered right now is something actually through Carol's office that has been opened up to city staff and leadership. If we could always share the details of that training that would be good and then from there it'd be really sort of figuring out if we wanted to focus maybe a training on a topic within D I or, you know, maybe do another session of this training. And who are you doing it with again I'm sorry. Yeah, Carol if you want to provide the details that would be really awesome. My name is Shane Moliere, and she lives in St. Johnsbury and the curriculum is racial literacy, and it's based on three books. So, I don't know if we're reading all three of the books or if she's I think she's going to take pieces of the three books because she said that we know like we're not reading one and then discussing it over a couple of sessions but it's eight sessions once a month on Thursdays in person from 530 to 730 at City Hall. Racial literacy is is what it is and I can share that because I thought of offering it here too we have three spots available right now. We have I think 10 between staff and volunteers we have like 10 folks registered and so there are already a couple people from the public and other departments that have signed up with us so I'm completely open to that we can take 18. And so I want to fill all the spots and even have a wait list. So, and I've told people that if they anticipate they might miss one or two sessions, whatever I just want to I just want to get all 18 spots filled so I'll share that with you. The syllabus is actually pretty vague like each of this she does list each of the sessions sessions in the syllabus but it's, it's basically, there's a reading and we're going to discuss the reading from the prior class. So, you know, so I'm not I, yeah, and I, you know, I don't know her work well but she was recommended by another CJC director and St. Johnsbury so that's what we're doing and I felt a little bit under the gun to spend the money because it has to be spent by the end of June. So, any of you who want to join, let me know I'll put you on the list and I'm going to. It's next week starts next week on Thursday. And so is was this just kind of made available as an option to staff is that how we get people. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago or maybe it was last week Kelly I can't remember when I sent it because my schedule has been like, I'm insanely busy. I can't remember when I sent it but I did open it up to, to other departments. And already, and it got also it started it started in your department and then you open. Yeah, so we got, we got additional money in fiscal year 23 from the Department of Corrections $5,000 specifically to do this work. You know, and there were and there were no guidelines on how to use the money. So, you know, other CJCs are doing different work, somebody is, you know, doing some work specifically around their strategic plan and, you know, anyway, so I felt like this would be good for I wanted something that was going to be directed to our volunteers and staff would benefit from then realizing that, you know, I think people also, and I get this are a little burned out on the topic right now and so I'm appreciative that we have as many spots filled as we do for staff three of the staff are doing it and Kia is not going to do it because she's a black woman and wouldn't be appropriate for her to do this particular training. So I left it up to her to decide if she wanted to participate. But yeah, I, that's what it is and I'll share the syllabus and her bio again with this group and then again with with the city so we can make sure we fill the spots. I wonder if there are things that we could do to make it just to encourage city staff to do this. I don't know if you could like, let them do it on a work time or. Well, it's it. I mean, I know I know it's not scheduled during work time but like if somebody could come in two hours late that that morning. Do it. Yeah, I mean I'm assuming that I'm assuming that my staff is being paid to do it like I would think that it would be its professional development. So I would assume Kelly correct me if I'm wrong but anybody wants to take it that's what they would do. Oh yeah for sure I mean so if they took it in the evening hours they would get comped for that time. Oh that's great. Good. Yeah, that doesn't happen where I work. Yeah, it is a really nice benefit of the city that we do offer comp time, especially in these kinds of situations. Oh great. Okay. Can you say Carol that it's in person only it's not being done on zoom. Correct. Yeah she insisted on that I asked if if we could even do a hybrid and she said no so going with it. Is it available for committees and then like committees can use stipends to be able to participate so yeah I'm like wondering if we should circle back to everyone that has reached out to us for trainings from other boards and offer this so. Sure. I mean again there's only a few spots left and it starts next week and but and the other thing was that I wasn't sure we would be able to afford all of the books it's about $700 books. I didn't want anybody to feel like the buying the books was a barrier getting the books was a barrier so she waved to her consulting fee of $500 and so we're able to work it out to buy all of the books, most of them from through bear pond to use somebody local so the books are available. People can pick them up here in the office if we're here. Otherwise, you know, they'll get them at the first session. Okay. So we're going to provide snacks at everyone to because 530 people are going to want snacks. No that's great. That's really important. Yeah. I would have loved if we could have offered childcare. Also, so Kelly and I have had some some conversations about the stipends so that's something that I would love to keep talking about changing the wording on how the stipends are distributed and how they can be used for. So, should we skip down to that one yeah any other thoughts questions on the training. Yeah I guess I'm just before actually before moving on I'm just like because there are like, I don't like 100 people who work for the city and it's like, if there's 10 spots feel yeah just like knowing that there was more full staff training that then everyone wasn't able to get involved. Yeah, I don't know why that never mind. Well, if I might, I'm curious about this myself. So yes so there are about 120, 123 full time permanent employees with the city. And you know I think if this is a goal that we have, or that the committee has to have staff get training. And then we should strategize about that. Yeah. And so if you know what I was thinking and maybe you might consider this as a, you know, an option and then we can come up with other options for sure I like options is that you know maybe perhaps this is kind of a pilot and so we're using that $5,000 as a seed, which is really nice and then we're leveraging that if this this program works well then maybe perhaps it is something that we roll out to city staff. And then we do other sessions. You know, either with the same instructor or of a similar nature, so that it becomes a series, instead of a one time thing. So then, you know it's kind of ongoing and we are starting to kind of fold city staff and because I do think it is really important. And I think based on, you know, sort of the work that we've already done around this. You know, with the group. Discourse, I was like it's coming to me it's going to get there there it is creative discourse. So with that group I you know I want to be able to at some point pick up where we left off and really evaluate that and think about okay. So what are the next steps, you know what do we need to do and you know I think because the nature of this work it's an ongoing conversation. And you know we need to keep that going and so I would like to keep that going for city staff. I do think that there's an opportunity here to maybe look at this in the lens of a pilot and then you know maybe keep it rolling forward and then we the strategy piece would be thinking about you know whether or not we would make this, you know requirement or some sort of proportional goal of city staff to be trained up in this. So that would be something for the committee to consider and recommend, but I think from the city's perspective. I'm really interested to see how this goes that then we can kind of maybe implement future planning around it. When fast Carol how many sessions all together. Eight. So it's once a month until December. Which you know I, at first I thought oh maybe we want to do it twice a month and speed it up but I think once a month is good because it gives you time to digest and you know really live it. And I agree with Kelly like I really think there should be, even once this one is going like we should be starting some other effort and making something available to folks in the city. And I say that because people are in all different places in terms of how they feel about even acknowledging that racism and exists and that white supremacy is an issue right so I think that trying and trying different ways of helping people think about it and have the conversation is really important and that's the way that we're going to actually get to some to some change that ongoing effort. You know our full time jobs it's like, Oh, do I need to do this thing this is my professional development and, you know, I recognize the burnout factor on on that too and I hear that from my staff, you know like, I just need a break from having to think about how I'm being more inclusive and being more diverse and, you know, recognizing my own whiteness and all the biases I bring to the table like I hear that. And I feel it too. Yeah, I guess I'm like, is it clear that this is this is targeting for white folks and like dealing with their way fragility and stuff and in the, in the sessions or racial literacy so it's, you know, really just having an understanding about what what it means. Cool. Okay, thanks all. Yeah, something like I don't know if there's more to talk about for that, or if we should go on to talking about statements. Yeah, I mean we can bring it back to your meeting just to kind of be to talk about how it's going and being to think about next steps. I have a question related to this. The police review committee also addressed the question of training, race training stuff like that do you know what's going on over there. Kelly, what are they, they just monitor that themselves. Like for police staff. I don't know of any specific trainings but I can certainly check out with Chief Gordon and see, you know what they've got going on. Because I do know that they have done a lot of work but I am not sure about specific trainings. I mean one of the questions that comes up for me is, and mostly because he's, you know, there are three who are still at the Academy right now is what's the Academy doing like I feel like that would should be a part of the Academy is putting more emphasis on for law enforcement and I have no idea that's like trying to find out what that curriculum looks like is. It's kind of like trying to find out what driver's ed curriculum is all about. It's, it's tough. I mean, when I was doing I was on the police review committee and when I was doing my research I could get the number of hours that they devoted to thing but never the curriculum itself maybe occasionally a paragraph but not. I don't know why it's not more transparent it's like, what. Maybe that nobody has asked it to be, you know, could you know when how much more more would they be willing to offer in terms of, you know what what topics or what what's the reading list or something like that. I think just asking this is because a starting point. I think who asks makes a difference to just saying. Because if it's me they're like, whatever. Well, I can sift through my notes and try to find out the person with whom I had a conversation about the Academy and ask that question. Yeah, great. My notes are a pile of papers, it's just, you know, so it's an archeological expedition but I'll see if I can. So you'll either ask or tell us who to ask. Yes, as it comes from the city council or from something else. Great. Okay. You want to take on the next thing on the list. So the city website has been updated and actually, if you don't mind, I think I can do this. I'll share my screen and just show you what the webpage looks like right now. And see we think and see if that's something, you know, if there are the changes that you'd like to see. Cool. Okay. Okay, so here we go. We have been kind of combing through each committee sites and so see Jack included. And so what the question at hand was around membership. So we've got that reflected here. And then we've got the meeting schedule up above. And then just a little bit about the committee, such as the mission and current work. I want to ask a question about that, that meeting schedule section. Sure. I went there this morning to try to find the link. And it didn't really work. Didn't really, didn't really work. Okay. Yeah. It was like a bunch of cooking in it. And then I gave up and finally just signed into my city email to get it from. Yeah, that's super helpful. I mean, we are trying to streamline that so that it's not. So it is seamless. And in this particular instance, it wasn't so things. I'll look into that for sure. And then for the members, it's yeah that Helen and Jeremy are no longer on the committee. Okay. All right, right. That's right. Okay. But, you know, aside from, from my, my little trouble this morning, I think it looks really good. I think it has, it's a nice concise description of what the committee does tonight, the way it's laid out with the columns, it's really easy to see the key information without too much scrolling. So I think it looks really good. Thank you. And I will definitely update that for sure. So we can kind of flip back as long as everybody else is, you know, good with what this looks like aside from the membership. Sorry about that. I'll definitely make sure that following this meeting today. We get that updated. So I'm going to stop my share because there's it's pretty straight ahead. I'm going to keep it here. Okay. Okay. I mean, I think the next thing is the committee application and it looks like that hasn't been updated yet. I just like over to it and so yeah I've just I don't know if there's anything does that has been changed if you if you want to share through that. So there is nothing that has been changed. We have been internally talking about how to change that. Honestly, there's no issue with changing it it's just that we haven't gotten to it yet. And so that's where we're at I do want to make sure that we do. And so this week is a little bit slower so I'm hoping to make some of those changes based on the committee meeting notes. And then hopefully next time I'll report back that here it is it's been updated because that's the goal. So that I did receive and talking it through with staff is that, you know, if we don't ask about education, for instance, you know, then will we get a person's background but I don't know that that necessarily matters but I wanted to pose that to the group because particularly when they would be answering those questions they would share, not only their interests but why, you know, or the or their background. But we also want to encourage a diverse background. And so I just wanted to touch base with that and make sure that that's still, you know what the sentiment is. What was the suggestion to to leave that off entirely. Yes. I think I think we felt really strongly about that because because we want people from with lived experience and from marginalized populations and that can be intimidating, you know, to folks and I, I don't think it's necessary for the work that we're doing. And just to say like the language that we decided on was what talent skills, education credentials and experience you bring to this border committee so I think it's still prompting people to share that if it's relevant. Great. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's all I really was wanting was confirmation of like, yep, it's still kind of in there it's just not the thing. It's on its own like separate. Yeah, question. Okay, cool. We can work on that and Carol we can work together on just making sure that that happens. Okay, so then the next thing. On that responsibility to me. Kelly. Thanks. Mostly Carol just a second set of eyes. Yeah, thanks to make sure that you know we're getting this done. Don't worry. And just to say I think like we proposed removing some questions at the top and just wanting to see if the legal was okay with those two, like that that could be an additional step of just like we proposed removing the question I related to any personal professional or business pursuits that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations as a member of a city advisory board or committee do you have any pending litigation against the committee, having to be like a required question altogether, but just yeah recognizing like you don't have to be a voter or a resident of a certain age. And just saying like are you involved in any personal professional or business pursuit that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations as a member of a city advisory board or committee. Yeah, recognizing like you don't have to be a voter or a resident of a certain age, but that those are required and starred, you know required questions. And, even though we don't need that for people to participate so, but just wanting to make sure that legal was okay with that before making those changes to. Okay, yeah, no we can we can double check. Great. Sorry. Yeah, thank you. No, all good. So the next item was around the stipends. And so, Carol and I have talked a little bit about this and I think, you know, the, you know, I don't see why we wouldn't come up with a recommendation to open up the stipends stipends especially if it's related to city business. I don't know if we want to open it up further for conversation here. One of the things that I brought up was, you know, I love the idea that we can give somebody $50 so that they can afford to pay somebody to do childcare but how much easier would it be. If we were able to hire a couple of childcare professionals to be at meetings where we knew we had folks who would be where it would be difficult for them to attend the meeting with, you know, it would be much easier if we had a room and two people and, you know, and three different families could bring their kids. They'd have snacks, they'd have toys for them, whatever, during that meeting time in the same building. So, you know, to make that an option instead and use the stipend to figure out how much that might cost and then it'd be more of a process to figure out which at which meetings do we need to provide the childcare and then, you know, have somebody who's kind of on call that when she says, yes, I'm going to need it tonight, then, you know, they can show up and make it happen. I mean, I did this when I was working in the Moyle County doing substance use prevention and it worked and it worked great and this young woman actually was, she would bring her daughter with her and that's the way she could do it and she wanted to earn the extra money and it was fantastic and really appreciated by the folks that were showing up with their kids. So, if we're going to provide childcare, do we not need to be concerned about liability? You know, well, and that we're, we already are a licensed childcare provider at the city is but like, but not, I don't know exactly what, you know, what part of the city is and how that would work but we're not licensed for City Hall to be a childcare providing so in this case, we would have to have the staff do it it couldn't just be, you know, somebody's teenage daughter coming in to do it has to be. So Arnie would have to be involved. Yeah, Arnie would like would need to be involved in helping us provide that is what you're saying. Yeah, I'm saying there's a lot involved that probably costs more than we have in the stipend budget, ultimately. Not saying we shouldn't do it but a lot of considerations. What about doing it as a kind of subcontract to good beginnings. I don't think they're a childcare provider. Yes, they are. I think they do some. Well, I don't, I don't, I shouldn't speak, say something specific I know they have programs for bringing kids together at where they where they are. And maybe we can incorporate. I mean, I think one of the things that we might want to do too is just poll the existing members that we have. And then as we're bringing new committee members on, you know, asking the question. What, you know, does it work for you to get the $50 stipend so that you can get child, do you need childcare, you know, just to have a better sense of, of how many people actually need childcare. I mean, I think just, yeah, going back to what Carrie was saying, and I think what we were hearing from Cameron this last, you know, time we talked about this too is like we went with the stipends because it gives parents a lot more options and because this city has a lot of licensing things happening already around childcare, adding in a different thing. Like they wouldn't yet the physical building they wouldn't be able to do it in so then kids would have to go to a different built like there was it just like added a whole lot more problems and that like because meetings happen every hour of every day that like it makes. Yeah, the stipend was more of the lowest common denominator that would be able to support the most number of people and people could hire their their own folks but I get so I do want to like make sure we can go back to talking about that but I guess like yet can people use that stipend to pay for the city child care or people can't just like drop their kids off at the city's provided childcare it's like you have to be in the system already to be in the program yeah. Okay. And who are you saying that was already. I don't know. Arnie Arnie who's the rec director. Okay. I don't know that person. The other point that I brought up with Kelly and I think I'm brought it up here too is that right now for some reason. The decision was made a million years ago that Community Justice Center volunteers are not city appointed volunteers and so we're not eligible for the stipend and and you know our folks I think should be eligible for the stipend so I don't know what I mean but if that's just a language change, then let's make the language changed around around that, and then the same way I don't think we're going to have many folks who are existing volunteers taking advantage of it but I think it would really help us with recruiting people from marginalized populations lived experience and young families to be able to attend and want to participate. So, I would, that's my pitch is to not exclude our volunteers who put in hundreds of our I mean our teams meet three people once a week, and we've got like six Cosa teams right now right so they put in a lot of hours for the city, and, and they're not eligible for that stipend, and then our you know we've got five panels plus a youth panel, I think it'll really help us with the youth panel to so and that's an important piece of the work that we're doing that it's difficult to, it's difficult to recruit and retain teenagers and young adults on our youth panels and I think if they were provided with this type and they'd have more incentive to participate. And it might all go just toward that I mean I, you know, depending on who we get but I would like to make it available. I think yeah I think there's like overall lots of interest in expanding the stipends projects for on, you know, for for the country club road public hearings for other committees I may not be eligible like there's like a definitely a couple buckets of things that are not just committees and board meetings but for other like specific public meetings or for public meetings more broadly. So just like think of like, what, what would the language change be that the city would need to approve in order to make that more available for participants. Do we have any sense or who who would know and how to make that proposal. That sounds like something Kelly. And if that's the if that's the committee would like to do I'm happy to bring something back for the next meeting as sort of a starting point to consider language. I think yeah, really helpful. Yeah, sure. No problem. There are other buckets that we want to make sure get included to be like participating in public hearings and public processes. And, and other boards and committees that are not covered are not city appointed boards and committees that are, you know, very relevant to the city. I think Kerry, you had previously talked about like canvassers for the country club road project. One it feels like the timing of that is, you know, I think that was proposed a few months ago and now things are kind of shugging along so that may be less relevant but like yeah are there any other buckets of work that we want to make sure are included. I wonder about it. I mean things like providing food at a meeting, you know, not just stipends but like at those country club road gatherings if there's a little food it just makes it so much more welcoming and inviting. And I think if we there are some people who are going to need their time coverage to come to something like that, but there's a whole lot of other people for whom that's not the barrier the barrier is more just feeling like this isn't really for me it's not my scene I don't belong and not part of this group. And so anything that we can do to break down those walls a little bit so sometimes just providing food or having a different time of day or in a different location all that kind of stuff. But so if we could use some of the money in ways other than just direct payments to people that might open it up a little bit I'm just I'm wondering if we can just build in some flexibility to the language of how we use it so that then we can decide as we go. Yeah, that kind of was my point too. And I think, you know, doing, doing equity training in parallel to to these efforts, you know that I think helps other departments and other committees and people who are on those committees, just be thinking about like how we can better help people feel like they belong in that they, they can participate. And personally I think we have to really look at ourselves, and when we're making decisions about how we design something. That's what makes a big difference. Thank you Kelly for taking that on. I have a question about recruitment and all how in how to get the word out. I don't know if any of us or any city committees participate in the do good festival at up at National Life every year. Maybe planning on participating and just having a table for, you know, not all the not all the city committees necessary but there could be one table that list, you know that has information about it there. It's a great way to get, you know, people who are attending a fair, basically. And that's a lot of people in the city as I, as I understand it. I went to one of them, but I was away last year. I understand that the CJC used to do it and you know I came in in 2020 so we haven't haven't done it but it's something that I thought about the in the last couple weeks to get the information so we have a presence there. So, yeah, I think it's a great idea to have a presence at the do good festival. I mean, I think, you know, for us to recruit. We don't need panel volunteers. We have people that just show up and want to be panel volunteers, which is great, but our advisory board and, you know, for other committees for the city, I think it's a great idea. If we're going to do that then we should get started find out what the date is, and I just looked it up. Okay. And again, I think it may be, you know, more effective than trying to round up the committee chairs of all of the committees and have each one have a table but to try to consolidate it so that, you know, there's somebody there who can hand out. You know, just information. If it's nothing more than the kind of narrative that Kelly's put up on our, you know, for each page. Each committee have a page and sign up sheets that can then be distributed back to committee chairs or whatever wherever they need to go but I think it involves fewer people and it can, you know, consolidates the space and also the focus. I think I'm maybe we'll just skip down to our last agenda item city celebrations and recognitions. I'm just going to report back from Michael's initial research. Okay, I'm going to ask for Kelly's getting all of this stuff but it took us a while to connect but we finally had a conversation about it. So Kelly, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll take a stab at it and you'll correct me or get me back on track. What what appears to have happened in this situation is that it was a it was not necessarily a public event. It was an event by the city garage folks. For their staff and they invited city council as I understand it but I don't think. I don't think it was a kind of anybody come. And as Kelly described it as we were talking to really is is imparted an opportunity for the staff there to sort of have a staff event. And was not meant to be anything more than really a way of consolidating or sort of making them feel part of a small community. So I don't know that getting too much deeper into this raises questions that we don't, we don't want to answer we don't want to ask about how departments, you know, sort of try to create communities of their members. And if we start sort of putting clamps down on things like that. I think that maybe, you know, we're asking for more trouble. These are not as Kelly pointed out they're not necessarily public. They're not related to, you know, I guess they're not necessarily related to religious or ethnic identities but in the case of the St. Patrick's one well it was kind of, you could call it a spring spring spring or something like that. So I don't know where we go from here. I mean I think it really opens a big can of worms that that would be hard to sort of sort to separate and sort out. If I might. I think, you know, having this brought to the community's attention and talking about it is really good. Because I don't want to look away from it in terms of, you know, not having the conversation or not giving it the space that it needs. You know, I will share and just based on the conversation that Michael and I had, you know, we, we don't have a city policy at this point for these kinds of events. And this one in particular, you know, I would say that it's less about St. Patrick's Day than it is about the DPW folks sponsoring a citywide luncheon for staff. And so it's not public in nature. But that being said, you know, I think, you know, somebody thought enough to raise the concern. So, you know, I do think that we've got to at least talk about that a little bit. And you know, maybe, I mean, there's kind of two things here that I've been kind of trying to think about a little bit more and trying to get more information about what the intent was in the conversation. And because we do want to be inclusive, we want to make sure that everybody feels welcome and invited to attend these events. And for some reason, that wasn't the case, which it kind of seems like it is here. Then, you know, I want to really understand that and make sure that we can be. So if that means that the St. Patrick's Day designation is off-clinic, then maybe perhaps we, the city staff should be evaluating that. You know, it is something that the DPW garage does take pride in because it's something that they do for the city. It's something that it's, and it's actually probably one of the only events that we have, and especially in light of the pandemic, that people have kind of come back to. So there's a little bit of trickiness here, although that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the conversation and shouldn't, you know, be thinking about, you know, how that is put out. Because, you know, that's kind of how these things continue, right? So it's kind of being in the spot where it's like, okay, well, what, you know, what recommendations would we kind of put on the table for this? And I think, you know, the sort of two minds like one is that it's really about the people and getting together for a meal. And so it doesn't necessarily have to be associated with St. Patrick's Day, per se. And then secondly, if there were another event that somebody wanted to put forward to be recognized or to have an event around that would be city supportive, then we should also talk about that too. Like, well, what does that mean? What would the sort of criteria be? Like how can we make sure that we are inclusive? Because I think that's also in this kind of, you know, like the point is that we do want people to feel welcome and to be able to participate in all city events, especially city staff. And so we want to be able to break down those, you know, barriers, if possible. So I think that's, you know, and so it's a Michael and I did talk about it and, you know, I want to make sure that we're, you know, really considering this because I don't want it to seem like we're not. We have an item on the table that needs consideration and so kind of leave it to the committee there, but I wanted to just share those thoughts. And I want to follow up because I had after having conversation with Kelly, I did some follow up with Kia who's the one who raised it and she had a couple of questions one was how many people of color are actually employed by the city. And I told her I can think of one, which is her. And she raised it because what what came up for her and she also made the point to me yesterday in our staff meeting that that there was no acknowledgement, even a black history month by the city, right. So when she saw the St. Patrick's Day thing happening. That's what kind of triggered her. And she made the point to me. And, you know, I wasn't disagreeing with her I was just trying to get a little more clarification about what this meant for her because the way she brought it up and she said, you know, that that was her example. And that it's not that she didn't feel welcome going to a St. Patrick's Day thing but it's really just the overall question of are we having the conversation about what it means. I noticed that there isn't a Christmas party for all of the city staff every year right and maybe that's because of COVID I don't know but there isn't and there aren't other. So it's interesting that you know what do we which holidays do we choose to acknowledge for city staff with you know which are the ones that we get where we get the day off that makes a difference to because we're not acknowledging even the Jewish holidays right. So we just skip over those there are no Jewish holidays that are an official holiday for city staff but we do celebrate Christmas and New Year's and Easter and all of that sort of thing. So that was the point of her conversation and I am fully in agreement with Kelly that we do need to keep having the conversation around this, not as a way to squash what they're doing with DPW. And I think it's, I made the analogy to if I go if I say we're going out to lunch or we're going bowling which we did as staff. That's the same kind of thing I think where that originated was a way for them to get together and then they opened it up to the rest of the staff which is an opportunity for a citywide thing and it just happens to be connected to St. Patrick's Day for whatever reason maybe they have a significant number of Irish people with people who celebrate St. Patrick's Day or it's March because it's the beginning of spring I don't know, but I think we really do need to address it and the other point that Kia made was that, you know, because it's hard, and it might, it might be uncomfortable for people to talk about doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about it. And I think like having it be just not a public event and just city is almost like more reason to talk about it and so, and to bring it up and I think yeah just to reiterate, I would like to say in a different way what I think I've already been hearing is like, yeah I don't, as the city is going back to having more events and like recognizing like days on the calendar and having community building opportunities of being mindful that of what those are you know and that this is kind of an opportunity to make sure that it's not just celebrations of like white Christian days on the calendar and I think right if, if that means that you know yeah there's like a lot of folks with Irish heritage at DPW like let's like yeah I don't think it's any ask of like let's like not do historically like like loved and like recognized events but it's more about like add like how can that be additive to it you know and so right if there's like, yeah a lot of folks of Chinese descent in the senior center let's do a like, let's you know, how can we support them of having a Chinese New Year celebration that can be opened up to everyone. But I think we all yeah we want to be really careful to not say what we can't have the DPW have a St. Patrick's Day event and we need to make sure that it changes to being another event that people don't have any experience or history or like recognition I don't think that's by any means the ask here but that I'm just like being more mindful of it and I do want to parse it out from the other point that you're making Carol of like, I think that the question about like what days people get off and I, and I think that's like that that's a different that's I think this is more like I think what events does the city recognize or what like days on the calendar does the city recognize is more, even if it's not even if it's just public facing to other city staff, it is that that's that feels different to me I'm asking for other, you know, additional holidays to be celebrated on the calendar right and if we were like 20% of people on staff all celebrated Chinese New Year and we didn't get takes Chinese New Year off that would be a different conversation but I don't as a predominantly white Christian, you know, city and city staff, like wanting to be mindful that asking for other holidays and things off is a is more of an HR issue I think then recognizing other like cultural to historic days on the calendar, you know, like being more, being more mindful of that and so I I'm not suggesting that by any means I'm just saying that I mean if you look at the roots of why those are the holidays celebrate right there's a reason that those are the ones that are celebrated and, you know, turning that ship is like that be a huge project right like that because it's their state holidays and federal holidays and all that. I just but talking about it and being mindful of it I think is in part the point that key is making is let's let's keep having the conversation about what what are we at what can we add and how and even if it's not another holiday that we add. I'm just talking about it and is the city going to say like yeah remember it's black history month and then if you look at the calendar there's like a celebration month there's something in every month of the year right like this domestic violence month and in April and sexual violence month and I think October. So like there's all these. It's a big, it's a big question. And I'm not advocating that we change the holidays but just to be mindful of like what we acknowledge as a what like who like maybe as like a starting point like who manages like the social media account and recognizes, you know, are I was just having a very similar line of thinking. So we are very fortunate to have Evelyn Prem start full time with the city as like yesterday. Oh wow. So she is our communications coordinator and is responsible for our social media presence. And we are also working through a lot of projects for her. And so this one in particular. We don't, we don't have a strategy at this point, but we should. And we should talk about that. And so I think if that's the outcome here like that's really good. And so I think we can, you know, certainly you're just thinking about black history month it is kind of like oh yeah we didn't, we didn't do anything. You know, it's like, yep, acknowledging that and then trying to figure out a way to make sure that that doesn't happen again but then also making sure that it's not just sort of another thing on the calendar because it's important, you know, and I think that you know it should be recognized. So, certainly I can work with Evelyn on maybe thinking about a strategy around these sorts of things. And then the other thing that I was thinking about is, you know, through HR, we may especially if we want to be more diverse which we absolutely do is we should be monitoring, you know, the composition of city staff and we do have a couple more people of color, but they're sort of spread out throughout the city and there's only, you know, really a few that would probably identify that way. So, but I also think that, you know, making sure that for those city employees, you know, they know that they have a place here and that, you know, they're in a background their, you know, being is recognized, just like, you know, the things that we take for granted, like St. Patrick's Day. Yeah. So I have to go because I have another meeting at nine. So thank you for the conversation and I will see you all next time. And then yeah, I think this is bringing up a different question for me too of like how to create caucus spaces for people of color, queer people who work for the city and just wanting to, you know, like that was something we started with creative discourse that didn't continue on during the pandemic so I'm going to flag that for future conversation as well. So, okay, thanks all I also have to hop so. Thank you. Thanks to you guys.