 Hello, welcome to Kondo Insider, Hawaii's weekly show about living in a Kondo Association. It's hopefully helpful to board members and homeowners alike, understand self-governance and living in association and its challenges. And we have a really good show today. We have with us a really good friend of mine, and he's actually my boss in my paying job, Andrew Fortin from Associate Senior Vice President. And we're going to talk about community engagement. But first, Andrew, are you really going to fire me on live streaming internet? You know, if it helps your ratings, absolutely. Richard, it is so great to be here. I am so proud of the work you do. I think this is a great resource for people who live in Kondos. And, you know, I watch it all the time. I stream it back home. And to be here is, you know, it feels great. So thanks for having me. Well, I'm glad you're here. And I joke a lot about things. I threaten with Jane all the time that I'm going to get fired. I think this is a valuable show for resources for owners and people living in a Kondo. And it's fun to do. But first of all, just ask people to introduce yourself and about your background and the social and just share a little bit about that. Well, my name is Andrew Fortnick. I serve as Senior Vice President of External Affairs for Associate, which is one of the largest management companies around, right? We operate here in across North America. And prior to that, I worked for the Community Associations Institute as their Vice President of Government Affairs. So I've been in the industry a very long time. And what has drawn me to it is the ability to work to connect neighbor to neighbor to help govern their building or their neighborhood. And I can't think of a better, more noble pursuit than that. And why do you have a flower lay on today? Well, I have a flower lay, as do you. We're matching, right? Is because we were at the Community Associations Institute, Hawaii Chapter, legislative update. So we got to talk to one of the largest groups they've ever had, about 300 homeowners and industry people about the changes, recent changes here in Hawaii to state and local law. And I want to say that I think Associate deserves recognition for this. Because we're one of the few companies I know of that does this. Tell us what Associate cares is. Well, in my role, as it suggests, right, External Affairs, I operate for the most part outside of the company. And I work to build community. And I work to build community with our business partners and our competitors to help shape legislation. But one of the things I do that I'm most proud of is I'm president of Associate's 501C3 Charitable Affiliate, Associate Cares, which is the largest charitable organization in this industry. And what Associate Cares does is we raise money from our branches across the country. And that money is available to people who lose their home to a natural or man-made disaster. And I just wanted to tell you one of the most recent people we were able to help is a gentleman who lost his home in the recent eruptions on the Big Island. Our resources are available to anyone, whether they're managed by Associate or not. But because we serve people where they live, we think it's important to help them out in their time of need. And without being specific, about how much money have you put into Hawaii in the last year or so? Well, you know, I think with recent events in the city of Honolulu in particular, last year, because there were some big events here in town with the volcano and some other events, over the last year we've distributed close to $150,000 in relief to folks just here in the state of Hawaii. And I'm really proud that our employees over the last seven years, Associate Cares has been around for about seven years, have raised and distributed more than $3 million to help people in their time of need. And I think that's something that speaks to our values as a company. Family Spirit is our first corporate value. And that's something we learned here in this market, right? And so we have taken that value across our company. And we really believe it's important to help people, especially when their home is impacted by a natural or man-made disaster. Well, let me say this before we get into our show, you know, even though it's I work for Associate. Let me just say this. I think all the companies, including Associate, they give back to our community deserve a thanks. So thank you to the owner for their aid to the people in need here in Hawaii. And I think that's true of our competitors and anyone else who does good work throughout the industry. It is a commitment and is a financial obligation that I think that on behalf of the industry, the people who are locally, we thank you for your support to the people in need here in Hawaii. Well, it's always heartwarming to come out here because, you know, I get to, I have the privilege of coming and visiting you and our team here two or three times a year. And when I'm here, you really feel that family spirit that this area is known for. So I agree with you. I think there's no better thing we can do than to support our neighbors and our friends. Okay. You and I have had lots of conversations, you know, mostly over a glass of wine. I prefer that, by the way. But we've talked about the term community engagement. What do you mean by community engagement? Well, you know, too often, right? When we talk about condos or community associations, people automatically jump to rule enforcement, right? Rule enforcement or assessments and things like that. And, you know, I think that's all part of it, right? If you live in a building, you have to help maintain it and you have amenities and things like that. But what we miss in that process is that when we live in a condo building or another community association, we have a built-in infrastructure to connect people with each other and to connect them not only with each other in the building, but with the community at large. So by community engagement, I mean working through your association to find opportunities to engage your neighbors and build community within your building and to use that infrastructure of connections not only to support the residents but to reach out to the community at large and engage them as well. And why are you a big advocate of this? Why is this, it seems like it touches your heart. Why is this a big thing for you? Well, you know, I think we've all lived at a... We're all living right now in a time where we have a connection or we have community but it's not really real community. We have Facebook and we have Twitter and LinkedIn and all these other things that connect us and we substitute that for personal relationships, right? And too often, if you're ever on Twitter and you watch a discussion about politics or some other issue, I think when we're behind a keyboard, I think we're less friendly. I think we're less our better selves. And, you know, I grew up in a small town in Northern Michigan where you didn't lock your door and everybody knew your neighbors, right? And, you know, I think people miss those personal connections and I think the best part about the community association industry and about condo living is that you have that infrastructure to build connections with people. And, you know, what's important about that is, you know, when you look at the measure or how people measure their satisfaction in their lives, people who have those personal, personal, you know, not personal, personal connections with each other are happier and healthier. You know, it's got to be challenging because the world has become very technology-based and, you know, I was sharing with some people the other day. I said, I can't remember not having e-mail and phone messages and I'm not a big, personally, I'm not a big person on Facebook. I've never done a post on Facebook. It's just not, I guess, I'm a different generation. But the reality is, what are the challenges you see in doing this? Because, I mean, everybody gravitates towards their little machine and their little phone and we are losing personal connections. Well, you know, those tools, those are tools, right? Those are tools to help us connect and I think we all see some of the value in that. I've connected with friends from high school or elementary school or college and I'm able to stay in touch with them over distance, right? But those are tools to help us facilitate that. They're not a substitute to that personal connection. And, you know, when we can work through our community association, we can also turn perceptions about our condo association on its head, right? Because if you look at, you know, we talked about at the very beginning, when people think of condo associations or, you know, homeowners associations, they think of rule enforcement and fines and penalties. And that's like such a small part of it. So, you know, working through that process to counter that narrative and to create opportunities for people to connect just has benefits across the board. So how do they do that? How does an association do that? How do they bridge that gap? Well, you know, like I said, rule enforcement is a great one, right? You know, one of the benefits of living in an association is the amenities and the protection of your property values that those rules provide. But, you know, you can flip that on its head. So instead of enforcement for, you know, having an untidy balcony or something like that, having a contest for the best patio garden or Lanai garden or something like that, or awards for the nicest person or other incentives that really work to highlight the fact that you're part of a larger community, right? So that's just a few ideas. Other things are, you know, hosting powhanas or potlucks or more importantly, right? And you know this, Richard, because one of the things you do is you're a well-known advocate for this industry and the legislature down the street is invite your elected officials to your community. Invite them either to a board meeting or a town hall and really connect with them and tell them, you know, hey, here's the issues we have with our community, with crime, with schools, with transportation. It gets people to know each other and I think that where that helps most is it helps with governance, right? Because if people know you and I'm a board member and people know me and we get to know each other and we talk story and we, you know, we break bread, I think my motivations for why we do things as a board and why we do things as a community become more clear because they know the depth of me, right? And I think that from that community standpoint, I think that very much ties in with the culture here in this state, you know, of getting to know someone and getting to know them before you just start making decisions, right? Should boards use social media or Facebook or these different types of platforms to engage their communities? Is that a positive thing? Well, it's a tool to communicate. It's not a substitute for personal interaction, right? So announcing, you know, Facebook and Twitter are great ways to, you know, talk about, hey, we're having this event on Saturday or, you know, Thursday is, you know, we're going to have a community cleanup. It really is a great tool for spreading the word, but it isn't a substitute for, it is one of several venues or several channels that you can use to communicate with people. And as we all know, you know, on Facebook or on Twitter or on things like that, I think people feel more comfortable to be more critical and less civil because there's this kind of perception of anonymity, right? Like, you know, all I can say is, you know, go on your Facebook page and put up a comment about politics left or right and see what happens. You know, right? We've all seen that or had those fights at Thanksgiving with our families. You've been involved in legislating across the country, including ours for some time. Do you feel they would come if they got invited to Tahuana? Oh, absolutely. You know, I think if you look at, you know, we talk a lot about the things I like about visiting you and that personal engagement is something that's still very much valued in Hawaii. But if you think about what a legislator's job is or an elected official's job is, they're representing a district of people, right? And they want to get that feedback so they know that the decisions they're making are in support of the needs of those residents. So what better way to do that than to come into an association and if it's a, you know, a high-rise tower that's in one person's district? I have the opportunity to talk to three, four, five, six hundred voters in one meeting. I would jump at that opportunity and they're always looking for ways to engage the community. Well, I noticed today we were at the CAI Legislative Action Legislative Update. We had city council member Carol Fukunaga there and she took the time to explain the legislative process that went through to have Bill 69 approved, which was the fire sprinkler bill for what the new laws are for associations that don't have sprinklers, what they have to do to comply. And I thought she really did appreciate the fact that she has given a chance to share and then those listening saw how much depth and detail they went into before Bill was passed. It wasn't just so many emotions that got adopted. There was a lot of effort, research, time, thought, hearings, participation by community members. It was quite, I thought it was quite good to be honest with you. Well, I think to know someone is to help understand them, right, and to understand what they do or what their process is. But I think that's a really good point. There is much more to that process than this. And when we see politicians, we often see them as a caricature, right? So to get to know them, and I think in the case of the city councilwoman today, she did a great job explaining, you know, we all know the output of that bill, the retrofit and the life safety measures for sprinkler and fire safety systems. But all the thought and all the feedback that went into that process, you know, we often forget we sometimes see politicians as celebrities or really important people rather than the public servants that they are. Well, hold that thought, because we're going to take a short break and return our conversation about community engagement with our real pro and expert, Andrew Fortin, and we'll be back in just a minute. When I was growing up, I was among the one in six American kids who struggled with hunger. But with the power of breakfast, the kids in your neighborhood can think big and be more. Go to hungeris.org to make breakfast happen for kids in your neighborhood. Hi, I'm Ethan Allen, host on Think Tech Hawaii of Pacific Partnerships in Education. Every other Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m., I hope you'll join us as we explore the value, the accomplishments, and the challenges of education here in the Pacific Islands. My name is Stephanie Mock, and I'm one of three hosts of Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Food and Farmer series. Our other hosts are Matt Johnson and Pamai Weigert, and we talk to those who are in the fields and behind the scenes of our local food system. We talk to farmers, chefs, restaurateurs, and more to learn more about what goes into sustainable agriculture here in Hawaii. We are on at Thursdays at 4 p.m., and we hope we'll see you next time. We're sitting here talking with Senior Vice President of Associate External Affairs, Andrew Fortin, talking about a subject that isn't talked about too much. We get so much in what I call the activity trap of the budgets, the finances, the rules enforcement. We don't really talk about, we're really a community and a conduit association, and what kind of engagement and processes should we have, and Andrew's been kind enough to share with him the importance of engaging the community in positive ways to create the feeling of a community. And if you do that, what are the benefits of all that? Well, I think we've touched on them here and there, and I think the bottom line is, when you know someone, I think it really drives civility. That's been something that we've talked about a lot as a country lately, is public discourse and the language we use and how we treat each other. And the more I know you, the more I understand why you make decisions the way you do, and the more likely we are to find common ground as we go through and make budget decisions for our association, reserve decisions, investments, special assessments. I think that's the best part of it, is it facilitates greater understanding, and I'm more likely to listen to you, if I know where you're coming from, if I know your background and your experience and what drives you, then I'm less likely to be critical of what you're doing. Does that make sense? I think you know this principle in government affairs when you're talking to legislators, is that the person I'm going to listen to is the person I know. I'm less likely to listen to the person that I've never met before who comes up to me shouting, right? So building those relationships, building civility promotes dialogue, promotes good governance, and promotes a sense of belonging. You know, one thing I've often said on this show, and that's more into the rules enforcement, is that when you think about a community of people, particularly the owners, which are going to be, let's say, the mother, father, husband, wife, working lady, whatever it may be, they're adults, and they like to be treated as adults. And that whole rules enforcement shouldn't be a traffic cop mentality. You know, I have to say, I'm going to the Hollywood Citizens Police Academy, and I've now learned, that's probably a bad example, because even police officers are trained to be empathetic and listen, although they have a job to do and enforce rules. So, you know, I think your comments, can you share any examples of ones you've seen that are successful? Well, you know, we have a set of tools that we offer our clients to help facilitate community events and community building. And they fall under three programs, right? So one of the things we do is we are a national sponsor of National Night Out, which promotes community safety and fighting crime. And so we work to organize events during August and October, depending on your market, to get people together to know each other, to understand their community and safety issues. We have Associate Supports Kids, which is a program that promotes physical fitness for kids, and we sponsor sports teams. So if you happen to live that program specific to our community, so if you live in an Associate Managed Community, and you have at least one resident or child who's on a sports team, we'll sponsor the sports team or science team. But if you look at different communities, you know, one of the things is we had a community managed back on the mainland, and the board was very split, and the residents were kind of split into these factions, and they were very divisive, and you know, they had some minor challenges in their community, but rather than see them as minor, they were all amplified by these politics, right? So we work with them to do a day of service in their community in a less fortunate neighborhood, and that really kind of helped open their eyes to their privilege and how that their challenge maybe wasn't as big as they thought it was. So really, there's tools across the board that you can get either from us as your management company or from another management company, or just singing outside the box, right? You know, let's get together for popsicles, you know, or pop in politics or something like that. But the best way to make people feel like they belong is to get them engaged in a common venture. And thus, community engagement. Thus, community engagement. I guess what I heard, my takeaway is, certainly there's lots of ways to approach that. My takeaway is the board needs to have a conversation at a board meeting about how to engage the community and put together a plan to engage the community and look for whether it be a charitable day to help out, whether it be a forum, whatever it may be, find ways beyond the day-to-day running the operation, get the community engaged so it becomes an ohana, you know, versus just people living there. Well, you know, your example brought up another example that I wanted to share with you. You talk about ohana, right? Family. And, you know, in a place like Hawaii where you have a lot of retirees and people who are aging in place, in some of these buildings, there's been buddy systems that have been built up where residents work together to make sure they take care of each other, folks who are older or maybe have mobility issues. You know, that's the sense of community I'm talking about. I think it's the single biggest missed opportunity for community associations and condo associations to change people's perception of the value that they provide to the folks who live there. And so generally, what is your advice? Well, my advice is make that a priority. You know, if you work to engage your folks in your community, I think people will be happier. They'll see more value out of living there. And, you know, I think, think outside the box and engage them and get their ideas. It's about serving them, right? As a board member, you're there to serve the residents. You know, set up a committee, set up an engagement committee. Do quarterly events that bring people together. My neighborhood back where I live, we have all our neighborhoods known for big porches. So we have every Friday during the summer, we have porch parties. And at the end of the week, you bring a bottle of wine to your neighbor's house who's ever hosting and they put out some snacks and you end your week talking to your neighbors. Well, if there's any place that would work, that's Hawaii, because we're, first of all, we're a state that has very high giving and compassion for less fortunate people. And certainly, you know, we're known for powhannas. You know, we like to eat and drink and get to know people. But it's back to that relationship building you're talking about. If you don't know your neighbor, you don't know how they think and how they feel, and you don't actively as a board address that or make it a priority, then you miss an opportunity. Well, and you know, it's a good way to develop future leaders for your board as well. You know, create a committee on community engagement, give them some, a taste of the challenges of governing, and then that helps build your bench for future leaders in your community. We have time for one more question. I'm going to, there's a question I haven't, I didn't tell you I was going to ask. Uh-oh. Yeah, I know. Do I win a prize if I answer it correctly though, Richard? You can always say you're fired now. I'm again, fired from the show though. But anyway, you work with a lot of legislatures across the country in very general terms. How do you rate our legislature? I mean, how do you see it as compared across the country? Are we pretty typical? I mean, you have a feeling about our legislature. I know every year we go through the zillions of bills on condo matters, but how do you, how do you stack, I don't mean the people individually. I'm talking about just as a body. How do you see our legislature in a scheme in the rest of the world? Well, you know, I, I, I, I, this is one of my favorite places for the reasons we discussed, right? The value of community, the value of connection, the value of talking story. Uh, so in my experience based on other states, this legislature is really good about listening. Uh, maybe not everyone, but, you know, I look at the work you do and Jane Sigamora and others, you know, the CIA lack, um, and they're effective, right? And the other benefit you have is this is a fairly small state in terms of population. So you have the ability to connect with those legislators, right? In Texas, I have 26 million other voters that or, you know, a portion of that that I'm competing with. So, um, the legislature here does a really good job of listening, probably because, you know, they, because those relationships are there, that connection is there because of the size of this market and the folks that are engaged in it. What I tell people when they ask me similar type of questions is is that first of all, our legislature does a good job of listening, but when you look at any legislator, probably in any state, they're not an expert on everything. They need the community to come forth and express their views and share their concerns and because you have competing interests, that legislator, because they're willing to listen, will get a broad education on the pros and cons and issues of which then they're charged with making a decision. And I find it, legislators get a bum rap sometimes because I think our legislature tries hard to protect the community. Listen to what people have to say. And it's a slow process, you know, but, um, I think it's fairly effective, not that I agree with all the bills that are ever passed, but it's, uh, I give them credit because they're not an expert on everything and they have to put a lot of time in studying an issue and getting information from multiple competing groups. Well, you know what's great about that, and I think you hit the nail ahead, the governance or the government that tends to work best is the one that is closest to the people. And I think that's true. Look at what's happening in Washington, right? It's a zoo. Look what's happening in Honolulu, a little bit better, but the highest approval rating for any form of government or governance is Community Association Board of Directors. 82% favorability rate versus U.S. Congress 8% Well, let me say this. I want to thank you for being here today. I know you're flying back to Texas tonight, and we've had a good week with on very many matters this week, but I think this was educational and helpful for all of our watchers. You know, it's important community engagement. Let's find ways to get our community involved in what's going on, and probably don't make your board meetings a little better and easier to manage and have better informed residents. And so we look forward. We're going to be back next week with talking more about HO6 policies and Directorate in Officer Liability Insurance issues that I've recently popped up. And so thank you for watching Condo Insider. And stay tuned for next Thursday at 3 to 330. Aloha.