 The Great Mill Brooks once said, pizza is like sex. When it's good, it's good. And when it's bad, still pretty good. But we're not here today to discuss which city makes the most pretty good pizza. We wanna find out who makes the best. My name's Trey Crowder. As a standup, I spend most of my weekends on the road. And I spend most of that time listening to folks tell me that their regional cuisine is the best in the world. The object of this show is to settle these debates once and for all. Welcome to Grubbin. Today's debate, New York versus Detroit style pizza. Representing the big apple, we have Thomas DeSantis, the chef and owner of Fire and Wood Catering and a New York native. New York pizza is the best for a couple of reasons. It's the best because it's thin, it's crispy, it's not too filling. You could have a couple of slices not feel guilty after you're done. But really honestly, let me ask you this, if it wasn't the best, why would you go around on tour, all these different cities and see those neon signs say New York pizza all over the place? And arguing on behalf of the Motor City, Hunter Leslie, the co-founder of Detroit Pizza Depot and Detroit-er Born and Bread. It's just the best. I mean, what else do I gotta say? It's light and airy, it's got the caramelized cheese edges, it's made with love, it's made with steel, it's made with grit. Before we start flinging marinara sauce against the wall, let's go back in time a little ways. Pizza's American history is full of contested claims and debates that get hotter than a brick oven. For example, New York style pizza, the popular legend claims the first shop was opened in downtown Manhattan in 1905 by a young Italian immigrant named Gennaro Lombardi. But some historians claim that another guy named Filippo Milone had already opened six pizza parlors before Lombardi started doing his thing. Either way, the important thing to note is that New York style pizza hues much more closely to the Margherita style pizza you see in Italy, which means you got your mozzarella, your basil, and tomato sauce over a thinner crust cooked over hot coals. But if you talk to a New Yorker, they'll tell you it's not real New York pizza unless it's got this key ingredient. The water, everyone's gonna make fun of it. It's the water. Everybody always says the water. So they'll tell you that it's the softness of the water is the main character that is different in New York versus anywhere else. It's the level of calcium that gives you that, the umph in the flour when you're making it. Detroit style pizza, meanwhile, may be the ultimate product of its environment. Born in the motor city, the key component of this pie may actually be the steel pan it is cooked in. According to the history books, the first Detroit style pizza was cooked by a Detroit restaurant owner named Gus Gueira in the early 1950s. Legend has it that Gueira was trying to satisfy World War II vets who tried a delicacy called pizza while serving on the Italian front. So Gueira did what any self-respecting Motown resident would do. He bought a steel auto parts pan from a nearby dealer and cooked his pie up in that. Are you still using like literal auto parts pans or what? I've taken a couple auto parts pans. No, I'm just kidding. No, so there, yeah, there's special, we call them blue steel pans, but for us, classic Detroit style pizzas made in steel pans, almost similar to like a cast iron skillet that you guys would use at home. What's it do to the crust using that? Like what effect does that have? Well, you're getting that light and airy center that all Detroiters love. You're getting that bottom crisp and you're getting that caramelized cheese edge and that's where those pans really kind of come into play is when that edge is as high as it is, you're getting that super frico around the outside of the pizza. You can thank the parts pan for the deep dish presentation, but there's more to this pie than that. You've also got the use of Wisconsin brick cheese spread over the edge of the crust and the reverse topping application, which means the sauce goes on top of the cheese and pepperoni. So like a quick lightning round, some scenarios for you, like can you tell me whether, you know, which style is better in that situation? You're running to work, right? You forgot to eat. You're stopping to get a slice. Let's say you work second shift, whatever. You're stopping to get a slice, which one's better? There's no way you can say Detroit on this. You gotta be in New York. Yeah. You gotta suit on, white shirt, tie. It's like four degrees outside. You have a bunch of jackets, but you're hungry. Again, like I said before, six bites. You're back on the go again. You're on the go the whole time. The thing is, I gotta defend my homeland. Oh, you have to. I gotta defend my great new West. I got it, I got it. You go in. The problem is there's not a lot of Detroit-style slice shops. Yeah, right. That's a good point. So if you do find a Detroit-style slice shop, if you do the New York reheat on it, I think it's just as good because you're gonna, you're gonna get, right. When you get the New York reheat on a Detroit slice, it's gonna be perfect. You're not, it's not gonna flop. It's just one slice, you're good. Same thing. Sorry for my ignorance. What, the New York reheat, what are we talking about? So New York reheat, you know, you're pre-baking the pizza, it comes out, and then, you know, it kind of sits out, right? It's not under heat lamp, so it's, It's got a little negative connotation that we've got New York reheat. It sits out, it's not under heat lamp. I was waiting for him to finish that one. Because you guys do the slices, you're saying that they sit there for a while. You gotta reheat. So what we do is, because you're doing three or 4,000 slices a day, and people will not wait, they're not gonna wait more than 30 seconds for that slice of pizza, so we par-bake everything, put them under the counter, you know, give them about an hour, and then as people come in, you toss them in the oven, give them that New York reheat. But really, the positive connotation is you're finishing it. All right. You're brutally hung over. Room temperature, New York pizza. Brutally hung over, I'm smoking a joint, and I'm reheating some Detroit style pizza. Okay, you're pre-hung over, you're drunk at like 2 a.m. Man, you're asking all the stuff of my favorite, making this guy look bad. It's cool. It's called pizza. That's us at our prime, is two in the morning. You have Detroit style pizza, you're gonna be, well, the thing is about Detroit style pizza, it's all about portions. If we cut our slices a little smaller, and Detroit style pizza has this conception that it's like heavier. Yeah. But really it's light and airy, and we're open till 2 a.m. So I'm, you know. Oh, I love it. All right. So we're feeding the people. What about Chicago? Deep dish pizza. I feel like it overrated. Overrated? Overrated, it's not pizza. It's like a different thing. It's a pie. Yeah, like a casserole. It's literally, it's a full meal. It's literally a pie. You can't pick it up. Yeah, right. If you can't pick it up and shove your face on and eat it, it's not a slice of pizza. Well, after a heated but friendly debate, we have ourselves a tie. Looks like we got to give our guests one more chance to state their case to the people. So we're going to start with Hunter for this, but I'm going to do it for both of you guys. I want you to look straight down the barrel of this camera here and pretend that it's the most New York-iest, New York mother-in-law you can imagine, right? And you got to make your case to him why he needs to give Detroit style pizza a shot. Yeah, I was going to say, I can stand next to the couch. I was just going to stand right there. Listen, you mother-in-law. I know it's 2 a.m. I know you're drunk. I know that New York slice spot is right there and it's $2 and it looks good and it's super gooey and it's super cheesy. But come on over to our place. Come get some Detroit-style pizza, some cheese that goes all the way to the edges, some sauce on top, some light, airy crumb. Just put it in your mouth. Have a good time and go on about your day. Right on, Thomas. Don't get offended here. I got to change my accent a little bit. I only have one country accent. Oh, God. And in my head in Detroit, they're country. That's so funny. I just have to give the disclaimer first. I've only been to Detroit once. I didn't talk to many people. We're kind of in and out. So we know you're here all down at the Lions game and we know you want some of that Detroit pizza, Motor City. We got New York pizza. Thin, crispy, cheesy, just like that Detroit, but thin, two, three, four slices. Eat these slices, then go into the game. Don't stop in that Detroit square. Come get some of this round, thin, crispy pizza. Thank you to our guests for sharing your expertise with us. I appreciate it. Hopefully we inspired folks to try some new grub and maybe taught them a thing or two in the process. Y'all keep the conversation going in the comments and keep it spicy, but you know, respectful. If you like what you sawed, subscribe to the Attention YouTube channel, continue your culinary education and check out Dish History. Get your mind right with free therapy or hey, spend some more time with your boy and watch my show, South and Off.