 Big shit, it's a unique hustle nigga, big shit, big shit, big shit, name another podcast like this Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique hustle, it's your boy E-C-E-O and I'm here with the lovely amazing official Mr. Mako, what's going on? None, none, you know my dad will walk on. Man, look out man, they got us way down here man, we done stumbled up on something man, something that I've been wanting to do man, to deal with this guy right here man, I've been seeing him, I've seen him on various different shows man, I've seen him on 85 South, I've seen him on a lot of different shows but the movement is more stronger than anything else man, for our people and the culture man, Fred Hampton Jr is in the building. Live and direct man, it's good to be here, you know I came to your intro song, now when I hear it after seeing the interview with Cecilia Cici, I think about every time you hear an intro song. No, we got that intro song man, shout out to Exo man, Exo music, young girl out of Texas man, so man we down here in Chicago man and like I said we definitely, we had to do this, me and you we talked several times, shout out to Melvin Farmer man because he was one of those guys that he kept telling me you gotta do Fred man, you gotta do Fred Hampton Jr man, I was like I'm gonna get him man, I'm gonna get him but I was, we gotta get you to Dallas, we already talked about that, man, so what we do man, we do it a little different than others man, we want to go back, we want to go back to your childhood, we want to talk about the man, you know what I'm saying, the kid, who is Fred Hampton Jr, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. How you were raised, where you were raised, how you were trained, the whole works. First and foremost, you know, I'm honored and humbled to be here, I've said a number of cases, I feel fortunate to have fallen from a tree of two freedom fighters, that of Chairman Fred Hampton and also of Accord and Jerry, known as Deborah Johnson. Chairman Fred was Deputy Chairman for the State of Illinois at the Black Panther Party, in fact he led the largest chapter of the Black Panther Party. He was assassinated, I don't know if I'm gonna go straight to that, because I think I'll be remiss, I just did this piece on African ancestry two nights ago. And they, you know, lineage, they had taken the lineage, you know. How far back did you go? They went back, they went back on my maternal side, they traced it back to Niger, which is like right up on the northern tip of Nigeria, but it's not Nigeria, Niger. And with the paternal, on my father's side, Gabon, you know, is West Africa. And they was telling me, you know, how where it is, like to be the trace of lineage, in particular with the paternal side, and, you know, continues with the African, because they're taking into account what has been colonizing, you know, the plundering, the raping, particularly that, you know, that happened in regards to our people. I think it's imperative, so I'm doing some study on that also. So I'm saying, I'm going around the block to get to the heart of the question, is I think it's imperative that, you know, from once we come from... No, where you come from, before you know who you are. Exactly, people have a reactionary assessment, you say, who are you? And people are like, they just came out of a vacuum. So I'm such and such, you know, I'm, okay, I'm chairman free, I have to join you, bam. You know, no, no, I think it's, you know, you know, it's imperative that... What's we come from? I made a comment to somebody the other day, we here at the Hampton House, we have a particular breed of dogs known as the Hampton House Hounds. And this is across from the German Rottweiler and the Cain Corsa. Brother come take some puppies out, he kept on grilling me in regards to the Rottweiler. What's the, are you German or are you American? And I, you know, gave him the whole bloodline and I asked him, I said, how's your children's grandparents doing? He said, I never met them. I said, wow, we don't, you don't, you don't, you know, our lineage, you know what I'm saying? So I just want to give you a little bit about... No, the dog in lineage is better than, you know, your own people. No doubt about it, no doubt about it, no doubt about it, no doubt about it. I definitely want to, I'm going to mess with you a little bit. I want to talk about the time when you was young. You were sitting on Sam's stoop, you know what I'm saying? You, you, you, you was a kid, you know, you were dealing with Maurice and Poo and Carlos, you know? Did that, okay, did that, wow. Whoa, you were way back. Okay, that's what I'm trying to go with. Okay, I'm going to let you in on that. Okay, you okay? Because he was, what, 12 at that time? Yeah, he was very young. I was 11, 12. Yeah, we going all the way back to him, man. Okay, that's, that's what I'm trying to tell you. We going to interview him, man, we going to interview him, man. Did that. No, I just wanted to hit you with something. Because everybody interviewed, but it take, it's something special to go the extra mile. They're trying to figure out something to where we're going to take our interview somewhere that yours ain't never been before, you know? And it's at the brain, it's like, you know, memories and stuff that might, you know, so consciously blocked out, but okay, you, you struck some memories, some memories of flashbacks. Yeah, because it was just a thing where when we were talking to others about you, it was like, you were one at a very young age with big responsibilities at a young age. Where you might have had to pull up when everybody else was having a good time and somebody said, well, hey, uh, hey, Chairman Fred Hampton, Jr., you know, we got to go do this and you have to leave your friends at a very young age. So I just wanted to talk about some of those key elements. How the balance being, you know, that responsible child compared to, okay, when I'm with my friends, I need to enjoy my youth and my, you know what I mean? And my freedom where that is concerned. About situations that may be seen as, I guess, apolitical as getting ice cream from ice cream truck. I recall, like you just struck some memories, I recall, even as a youngster, like even when the ice cream truck comes out of the street, you know, the usual routine, everybody come around, you know, I go ice cream, ice cream. Yeah. And, but I always had to make sure there wasn't a good humor ice cream truck. Okay. This is doing part to, it was ingrained in us, you know, me in particular, you know, saying my counterparts, but I remember this is in particular, being the fact that one of the, one of the cases that Chairman Fred was framed up with was the good humor ice cream truck. Correct. In which I actually literally, well, we were doing this, we were doing this interview at, the case occurred, walking, this is right on this corner. Okay. In which they had claimed that, the state had claimed that Chairman Fred took $71 for that. Right on, okay, right on. Ice cream and gave it to the children. You know what I'm saying? That was so ridiculous. Yeah. And he flipped it. He said, okay. He made the trouble even out of the thieves. He made me have to be a robber hood type of thief. Stealing, showing a true nature of a path that give it to the people. Correct. So that trickled down to even as a child, some of you may think it's, some of you may know this, okay, man, get my good ice cream. But that, even that dynamic, you know, and then I even just like, I mean, you know, you know, cutting school, we going, and I recall a situation, we walking, we walking in some other youth and just simple things like giving the alias name, you know, the, you know, other youth like, you know, I need to give me your name. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, man, y'all, y'all know how this go with me. And I'm in one time this, I think this round, I guess I'm 17. I'm going back and forth from, you know, age. That's fine. Okay. No problem. And it's brother. And I, I, I crack onto this day about this. It's brother, we in the car we were riding. We, we were riding on the, on the west side. And I come looking through the rear view mirror. He said, man, he said, man, you got your license with you. You legit ain't you? Which way do you keep looking? I said, exactly. That's why I keep looking back. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I got the license. And it's something to be conscious of certain things. You know what I'm saying? Be aware, but to be, you know, it impacts everything, you know what I'm saying? From, you know, the school relationships, you know what I'm saying? The ability to communicate, not being able to lay out in a, in a, a climate is, you know, it's dismisses paranoia, something like that. I mean, a lot of young kids, you said, man, he think he back in the 60s. You know what I'm saying? And I, but I was, like many others deprived of that, correct? You know what I'm saying? That the summation, what happened to the Black Power Movement in the 60s? Kind of my mother, my mother, my mother, a comrade, I said about Tupac. You know, she said, Park need an organization. Yeah. And organization need a park. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And it's easy to, you know, play Monday morning, quarter back and live back in retrospect. I could say, you know, could I be, you know, man, Park should have done this, Park, but the different dynamics, you know what I'm saying? Who he was, you know, some, you know, the feds, you know, watch them as a child. And then to be in the arena. And people say, well, why would he, you know what I'm saying? Do this with, do certain arenas. You can't, you can't make an assessment like, you know, detached from, you know, the generation you in, like, you know, I said this one time, my thing was an interview, it was on a phone conference. And, you know, I said some ice tea. I say, I disagree with a lot of things. So one interview, I think it was on our senior hall, and they had showed a picture of ice tea, and everybody in the audience started laughing. And I dug his response. He said, okay, where was y'all wearing around that time? You know, can't even see me. And everybody get quiet. You know what I'm saying? So to put things in context, you know what I'm saying? Correct. You know, so to grow up, you know, conscious of something with the Panther Party, but deprived of people to relate to it, the condition, you know what I'm saying? Right now, this is a stage in the game. We are now, you know, it's not, you see, you know, Poles killed the James. They relate to it. Correct. As opposed to years back. All right, Poles ain't just being killed nobody. Correct. They didn't talk about it as well. Or what did you do? Yeah, what did you do? What did you do? They don't see the type of reaction they just want. Not, you know what I'm saying? They had done such a job, because not only after the military defeated the Black Panther Party, now I stress military defeat. Because I illogically, the Panther Party won. In other words, you can go to people to this day, they're going through struggles, the moralized, they're still in love. And I'm rich for the Panther Party, but it was a military defeat. And as the military defeat, they rose up, you know, all practical purposes, run to the litter. They, you know what I'm saying? They co-opted, you know what I'm saying? They brought out certain movies, you know what I'm saying? And they salted the earth. It's kind of like, you know, when they hit our rock and hit other places, they wipe out the gold, get us, you know what I'm saying? And raise this different spokesperson. So what that comes is, another generation whose reactionary, they can't relate to it. Of course, you have a few forces that can relate to it, you know what I'm saying? I know what happened then, but you still got like a sold-off. Well, you know, he had brought up Tupac. I want to talk about that for a second. I'm a big Tupac fan. I know his mom was affiliated with the Panthers, you know, yesterday he turned 51. If he was still living, he'd been turning 51. It's just something else when you look at the entertainers and how they pretty much, like I said, they are some of the pinnacles of kind of how things are gauged in today's society and today's time. So it's just something for you to bring that guy up and he being a big influence on the culture that we're in today, you know? So I think that's dope. What were you about to say? When I think about what you're saying, I think about how you were, your eyes was open as a young age because you were being taught about a lot of things that people take for granted. A lot of children at your age was not aware of. So the way in which you had to react to certain things was like you were talking about an ice cream truck and you had to check out certain things before you were able to, you know, when other kids would run up to it. Some kids would look at you like you're crazy, but really a lot of other kids or a lot of people were really just lacking knowledge of their surroundings when you had all of that knowledge. So you couldn't just frivolously do things. You see what I mean? You had to take a lot of things into consideration before you move. Knowledge and a certain experiences too. I want to stress that too, because a lot of times when we talk about knowledge, people say, well, can I react to these books on and so forth? Also, like, to my park, I think Park had said something to the effect also that even who he is, he had to acknowledge his adversaries also, who helped make him, you know what I'm saying? And I just want to say it's for record. His mother, she wasn't just an affiliate, she's a member of the Black Path Party. Correct, correct, yeah, for sure. And that dynamic of experiences, you know what I'm saying? In fact, one of the part of the position was that people learn best through observation and participation. And I got to acknowledge my adversaries in certain situations and conditions that help me be clear like, man, this who you are. You know what I'm saying? It's not just Dr. Romanicize it, not seeing some abstract way. Oh, this is the Black Path. A lot of you see leather jackets beret, but the heat that comes with it, you know what I'm saying? We are saying that a lot of people are Black when it's beneficial, play Panther when it's profitable. Wow. And connect the Cubs when it's comfortable. The deal is I can't opt out, so okay, I'm just playing, you know what I'm saying? Or, you know what I'm saying? Pop up when it's Black History Month, throw a leather jacket and beret on, you know what I'm saying? We're doing the times that are, you know, growing up, you know, heating our house, the gas cut off, you know, being suspended from school, you know what I'm saying? Being in a police station, you know, I think it was 7th, 7th District, I know 61st and Bray St, 7th, 8th Yonsters, saying last name Hampton. And they, you know, tried to figure which one is, you know, early to D. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? This ain't like the price is right. They're saying, come on, come on, everybody quiet. And they go get that photograph, they put that photograph and put it to you. They said, this the one. So that helped me who I am, you know what I'm saying? You know, appreciate that. How old were you when your mother, because I'm not too many, it was your mother who first told you about what happened with your father and so forth in the whole situation? How old were you? As far as you can remember. It's intertwined. It wasn't like, okay, we're going to stop and we're going, you know, I'm going to tell you, you know, you know, your father wasn't. It's like, it's second nature, like, you know, it's the different dynamics, like, you know, even, you know, referencing them, as you know, Chairman Frey and I, I met brothers later on in my life. They reminded me on how second nature was to me. They reminded me when we watched the VHS tapes, you know, the Panther Party, and if anybody laughed about the clothes they wore, we're getting to fisticuffs. You know what I'm saying? We're getting to it. And just the terms and just, you know, going around certain dynamics and hearing certain conversations and coming to contact, listening to, I know this generation ain't got it now, but the older cats around the steel garbage cans, burning the wood, the fire, you know, staying warm, listening to those war stories, you know. But she always, I mean, again, it was, you know what I'm saying? It was like second nature. And I, certain things, I guess, you know, I was just speaking to a brother the other day about Malcolm, Malcolm X. I said, you know, you know, it was both his parents were Gaviites, you know what I'm saying? Certain things were laid down to him, you know what I'm saying? But it's certain periods of life, certain things hit you. It's laid on in life. You can grasp it. James Amos, who played, portrayed James Evans in Good Times. His parents, his grandparents home in Gary and then Indiana. That was a, it was a stopover, a layover for the Gaviites. Okay. So you know what I'm saying? So it's certain they pictures, I just came out from Africa the first time in my life. How was that? Oh, phenomenal. I still, I still, I still not laying the back. I'm still, you know, I'm still homesick, you know. And just going for the homeland and just. What's the thing that stood out to you the most when you went? If I would have to. Or is there a misconception that, you know, because whenever you visit a country for the first time and you're living somewhere else, people always say, oh, in Africa, everybody's walking around half naked or in Africa such and such. And when you went, you're like, it's not like that. What misconception did you really see? It's a, because I always, you know, I was, I would, I noticed in my mother's home, you know, I noticed pictures that have been there, I'm cracking on her now, because they've been there since I was a youngster. She ain't took no sin. It's pictures of Africa. It's, you know what I'm saying? It's stuff I took for granted that, you know, one brother who grew up, he came, he came in the house recently. He said, man, you know, these books been here all the time. He said, are we outside? You got these books up in here, you know. He said, no wonder you say, man, you know certain things, but it's even the term. So I wasn't unfortunate to be given, you know, to be bombarded with all, you know, I heard it, but I was fortunate to have that balance, you know what I'm saying, in regards to, you know, where we come from and history of Africa, you know, and so, but I've been a kind, I've heard people, you know what I'm saying, who still, they can sell a Tarzan movie today. They can, they can, it wasn't probably when they were running, and people would go for it, you know what I'm saying? So I relate to what you're saying, like the stereo type, so on and so forth, and when I got there, I'm gonna have to connect with you. So you already knew what to expect. Yeah, yeah, I knew we didn't know, you know what I'm saying? It was one thing to see it, you know what I'm saying? To get there and the feeling, you know, see our people with the similar, you know, features and being able to, you know what I'm saying? Because one thing I tell people with this, with this path to politics, you know, we have a child in Brazil, you can go there and you can pick up in two seconds, I can go different locations. So that's our people right there. Right, right. Ferguson, we call Mike Brown Town. When we first got there, it was some different, we call softball cats, you know what I'm saying? No, no, they ain't that. Yeah, I seen some other cats say, that's us. That's the cats we connect to. So to know who you are, how they say, water seeks its own level. In certain places, cats go and say, oh, no, this cat, no, no, they pose to be with them, you know what I'm saying? And that's what our community, we have to struggle to acknowledge that structure, you know what I'm saying? As opposed to this idealism that we all, I think black people in particular, we speak French too much at the wrong times. We were robbed a lot of that because a lot of people who do that ancestry DNA and all of that, and figure out what tribe you're from and so forth, whenever you do get the opportunity to go or meet people from that group, you realize that the bone structures are very similar. The way how you look is very similar, but people here don't realize that because they've never had that chance to actually go, or to do that, to figure out where they're from. We have and we remain under attack. I remember when I was growing up, it was common for us, I remember packing our clothes right here, literally right here in this house, we'd go down south, you know what I'm saying? My grandparents, I remember they were religious, getting dropped up here, we going down south, going down, I remember I'm getting hit up by the chicken parmasquitos, all they hit me up, you know what I'm saying? Well, part of the south. Hainesville, Louisiana. Okay. In fact, we going down there for far this day. Yeah, you mean you spoke about that. Yeah, yeah, that's what Chairman Fred, that's what he's buried at in Hainesville, Louisiana. Correct. And I remember a case, three years, not too far, not too long ago, Longo's sister was murdered, her last name was Hampton, and I was talking to the family members, I was like, what part of the south y'all from? And she couldn't relate. She didn't even ask her parents, you know what I'm saying? And that's how they stayed with Latin, and you had to take into account the gentrification, the land grab, and one of America's policies is to create chaos and then restore order. Create chaos, then restore order, you know what I'm saying? They stayed with all structure, you know what I'm saying? Like it's an old saying, an old African saying, God created Africans and America made niggers. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying? And we add on to that, that the Mazda machine manufactured Chirac, you know what I'm saying? This was a city of structure. Yeah. And it didn't destabilize. So it's not that we just don't know certain things, you know what I'm saying? I used to be a walk on my block, I grew up in Blyat, Forty. You mentioned some lanes just now, I could right back in. Yeah. Man, their parents, their last names, all of them cats, you know what I'm saying? Puy, we at, you know what I'm saying? Man, the white is a whole, now, shh, man, you can't, man, every day of switching up. Let me ask you this, like, you know, after your dad was helping with the breakfasts and for the kids and everything, some of those people that he fed during that time, when you got old enough, those people would have still been around. Did they kind of tell you, hey, man, your dad, you know, was it some memorable moments that people came back to you about as you grew up as a youth? I constantly, I constantly come into contact. I'm just, I'm on cloud thousand right now from a situation I just talked, I just called up the director, moved Judas and Black Messiah, and I was putting him on the phone with a brother who I was talking to yesterday. We have free clothes, the free food program, you know what I'm saying? It's going on right here, the community refrigerator. Yes, I see it. I see it outside. Brother dropped some clothes off yesterday, talking to him. I said, man, he said, you look familiar? I said, yeah, he said, I said, you need some help getting the clothes out? She nodded, that's what your name, but she Lafayette. I said, like, Louisiana, so what you know about that? I said, I know what all that, man. You know, Monrolu, all that. So he said, man, you know I knew a friend. I said, yeah, he said, we grew up together. I said, dig that. He said, man, you look familiar, though, man. I said, yeah, he said, man, he said, man, he said, here's Aura, man. He said, his confidence is humble. Now, he could walk up in the, he said, he came up in this pool hall. He said, he had this coat. He said, I said, you talking to Buckethead? He said, yeah, he had the Buckethead. Walkin' in the pool hall, man. He said, man, this before he was the pastor. He said, man, how he commanded? He said, it was like, how he did it, the aura, how he moved around. Caprio Sanchez, we walk in, the people, the people related to him, and it's humbleness, man. He said, man, it was something else. He said, I mean, he said he had this lady. He said, the brother told me he had to go visit this lady. The air he was going in, these white boys kind of had a lord. He said, Tim Fridt, he said, he made sure I was straight to get over there. You know what I'm saying? Wow. He made sure I was protected. Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And constantly, another day, another day, another day. I'm still, I'm still, I was just talking to the delegation of people from Chile, Puerto Rico, and some other positive country. And that is, some of this documentary about the release, about the uprisings in Chile, of these rebel DEIs and some others. So, some former Puerto Rican political prisoners, they in town. I don't know if y'all remember this case, it was a big case with Hillary Clinton, or I think she was Secretary of State then. They was talking about doing these parings, and they come and try and get these conditions to the prisoners. Well, you get a lot back up. I think I heard. There's a big thing about this. Yeah. I was, I was like myself when this happened. Yeah. And they fought, they still prayed, was fought, you know. And these courageous cats, Louis Rosa and some other, you know, some other. It's called Oscar Lopez Rivera. And these, both of these cats in particular, they physically, they're some real short, they short, they physically speaking. So, we are talking to the delegation. So, I know Louis Rosa from years back, you know what I'm saying. But I see Oscar Lopez Rivera is my first time seeing him. He couldn't even contain himself. He couldn't even contain himself. He said, you know, the man, he was this, this, this, this, this stories about him to this day in the prisons, you know, to my, man, he come through them to the respect they had for him. He said, he said, let me compose myself. He said, I ain't never seen nothing like it. He said, since, been before. He said, it's a place to, I think, the Randolph food market or something. He said, they get all this food they got. He said, man, I'm watching him from a distance. How he came down there. How he said, I'm watching the whole process. Him getting that food to go send it to be given, you know, send it to the party, into the people, give it to the people. He said, I'll get, he said, I'll watch it, go from, no, they won't give nothing to how Chairman Frey got that food to get to the people. He said, I mean, one time, it was some place, he says, he's young, he's these white dudes. I said, young patrons. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, man, all these kids coming through, the Puerto Rican, he said, he's been, he's been stoned, disciples of black kids, all. He said, how he, the humbleness, how he organized. He said, talk to him. He said, then he said, right there was a building, the police, the fairs. He said, there was a fairs building. He said, and they came outside. He said, what they looked at him? He said, simultaneously, him and some other guys, I mean, unrehearsed. He said, they gon' kill him. Wow. He said, they gon' kill him. Man, it's tough. Like, your dad did a lot of different things, man. He was in NAACP. Junior NAACP. In junior, did any of those people ever reach out to you after that, or speak with you, any of the members that was around? This is now an era where we, like, heighten the contradictions, you know what I'm saying, for the conversations to even happen. Yes. Remind you, the way that they assassinated Chairman Ferreira, you know what I'm saying? It was a strategic, you know what I'm saying? It was done in a way to terror, to terrify the masses, and to horror, to horrify the masses. Don't speak about him, you know what I'm saying? And when we say those terms, people say, well, what's the big deal? In fact, I just had a, everybody talking about this, there's a big, like, an hour-intense dialogue with Busta Rhymes the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was, we used to tell them, I was struggling about the, you know, the stressing, how we are about the terms of words, you know, the titles and all that, you know. And we used to have this dialogue, you know, and he said something, he said, man, you be so passionate about it, you know what I'm saying? For sure. I say, man, I know not to sound sacrilegious, but revolution is my religion, you know. That's real. And people, the deal is, back to the question at hand, we can't cut off December 4th, 1969, and just say, okay, the government assassin and the chairman friend, the defense guy, the Mar-Claw, you got a tie-in also, what else went down? Correct. December the 5th. What happened December the 5th, 1969? Law enforcement came through here, in particular, made with them particularly, with the other areas there. They pulled black men, black boys, out in front of their houses, in front of their wives and children, make sure they saw this. And they told them there'd never be another friend after Nahia again. Wow. Similar to the era during child slavery, a pregnant sister ran away. They just didn't go kill her. They went and brought her back, stood her stomach open, stumped her feet into death. This terrified generations. It's a brother, it's a brother, this is amazing. And this is in 1969. This is when they brought the men, boys out, but I'll be correlated to what they do during child slavery, correct? You know what I'm saying? And I was just doing child slavery. Again, I was talking to these guys from Chile, and they were talking about the whole, I think it was an appendicitis regime, how they were stumped, they would take babies from the women of the college, and they would give the babies to the ruling class, and they would raise them as their own children. And they're on child power. This is the title of the cologne. This is historical tactic. So one brother was at the movie theater, watching a movie, Judas and the Black Messiah. And he had said something to the fact. He was telling his father, his mother, wife and children. And he was telling them what's going, you know, what's happening. And he said, oh, watch this, watch what's happening now in the movie. His father said, how you know? How you know something about all this? You know, he said, I talked to this son, the chairman. He said, dad, why didn't I know? Why hadn't we had this discussion? He says, father crying and said, son, we just want a piece. Wow. Real talk. He's just going to press this. Yeah. When you think about this, thank you for letting us come in and sit down with you here. You grew up, you know, a lot of times in this house. What memories like, what's some of the fond memories that you have of just, is this, this is the actual location, right? That was just the house where your father was killed or it wasn't doubted. They told that one down there. No, no, they told that actual building down. Building down. But I definitely want to take you all about it. Okay. That's, you know, that's the site. We call that ground zero. Okay. We call that ground zero. That's the day two of our twin towers. Correct. Cool, cool fail. 21-year-old chairman Fred, 22-year-old deputy of the mall club, December the 4th, 1969, West out of Chicago. This is the house he grew up in. He grew up here. He grew up here. And so, and you could get the energy, the feel of this house, you know, I was embracing all that as we were setting up in and just the fact of, you know, just having that, that you still have that, you know what I mean? You can't never wipe away what happened for show. And you don't want to, because our people have to, this is our foundation, you know what I mean? And I appreciate you for letting us come in here and sit down with you, me and my wife. Yes, okay. And I'll start one-on-one, man. Just want to say that first of all. But my daughter did an article on you. You're going to see it. I don't. I got a 16-year-old daughter. So you're right. Yeah. She went down through that with you and your father. Wow, right on, right on. She's straight. She's telling me to shut up. I'm going to say this straight A's too. Now, I look back at all this stuff. See, that's what I was looking at a while ago. I read her report. I'm like, man, this is not going to be nice, man. But I just appreciate you, man. We came down here to Chicago. This is what we came for. We came down here to interview you. And I think that was, this is a pinnacle moment for the channel. You know, we started a year ago. And like I said, I just feel like, you know, certain things we have to do in order for people to believe in us, believe in the channel, so we can help people. That's what these microphones are for. That's what these podcasts are for, just so that we can get the right people on here so that people can hear the right message and there can be a change in our culture and our people. Because we need that. And bring awareness. Yeah, bring, very much bring awareness. Well, I appreciate y'all being here. And because reality is, you know, this, this, this ain't, this is not a safe subject. Right. This is not, you know what I'm saying? In fact, you know, I refer to us, the Black Panther Party Cubs, one of our mattresses. We say we're the last call for alcohol. In other words, we're the ones people relate to after they've exhausted all remedies. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, we tried this, we tried that. You know, like to say back in the 60s, tried Democratic Party, tried Republican Party. Who was that? That's the Black Panther Party. That's who been serving you all the time. Say, last call for alcohol. Who was that lady with all them scars and bars? Don't look so good. That's the one. That's the servant to the people. You know what I'm saying? We ain't got the, you know, the great, or the system ain't gonna get you. You say, oh, here she go. We got the scars and bars, the servants of the people. You know what I'm saying? And people relate to us at different times. A reporter asked me one time, how many members do you have in the organization? I said, well, I'll tell you. Who needs a count? I'll tell you, it depends on how imputed police are killed. Real talk. Yeah. People get involved in struggle one or three ways. Inspiration, aspiration, or desperation. You know? This tag team in the twilight, just by the house, I'm constantly feeling, I'm constantly talking. I see this sometimes. You know, me and some of the comrades, we had a trip with the door shut. Like, did you close the door? Like, man, the chairman, you know, the energy, you know what I'm saying? The energy. I flat, this swinging door right here, I recall as a child, my grandmother, y'all started running back and forth through that door. It was no matter, that's it. And this, I remember that brown corduroy blazer that the chairman wanted to pick up. 20 more. Mm-hmm. I remember what's finding that. I remember what's putting it in my mother's hand. It's right here. You know what I'm saying? Put a touch of it again, you know? And though it's been tweaked and embellished, this table, you know, this one, the cub logo on it, but this table been there. One brother sitting right here. How long has this table been here? This table been here since I was a child, but not with the cub logo. We put the cub logo on it. Yeah, yeah. And we, we said, the son's attic ain't got nothing on the cubs. I had to tell you, you know. I know, this is amazing. Right on. Right on. Yes, there's a lot of, a lot of struggles happening, a lot of decisions. This is what my daughter wrote this. I'll be reading. She said, in light of Fred's family has helped with the new movie, Judas, she's talking about the movie, Judas and the Black Messiah, which has increased the attention brought to the story of the chairman, Fred Hampton, Fred's son, Fred Hampton Jr. It also heavily influenced and emerged civil activists. He says that the same struggle his father fought against are still plaguing the Black community today. The core of the attacks of our people are still here. Hampton Jr. told ABC News Nightline. It may tweak in the tactics. So we said, I said, the only logical response is that we continue moving forward with advancing struggle of self-determination. So she, she's right. And she, you know, she sent me something. Yeah, right on. Tell her babe, just look right on. She's young and she, you know, learning this history. And I thought that was just glorious. Especially in this stage in the game, you know, again, you know, this is not a subject of people, you know what I'm saying, run to the youth. I mean, man, we, the path of the party said, we say today we fight for the minds and hearts of the people. And it's a battle. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a battle. You know, I mean, just, you know, people have a elementary or reactionary assessment of revolution. They think it's just, you know, man, you know, man, get this, get the guns, get the berets, so on and so forth, you know. But again, it's coming out to you, take a vow to say it, you know, that producing the new man on paraphrase, new man, new woman, you know, the, the, the, the, the Klan, minister, you know, said the cleansing process, you know, on the slave over those no oppressors, slave over those slave master, no oppressors going, new man is born, paraphrase that to new man, new woman. But the dynamics of being, a lot of people, you know, they are forced to relate to what the struggle, you know what I'm saying? This kind of goes back to something, this type touches this and the house. I'm going to say, we, I got a call in the 85 South, DC Fly. Yeah, yeah, DC Young Fly. I know. DC Young Fly. Shout out. Yeah, shout out. You know, he does, he has my, in fact, that's who has my vests right now. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's who has my, he, at the every, well, if I tell that story, until he was performing, and you, them youngsters was, I don't know, you know, they, they, they, they was packed, it was cold. Oh yeah. They was lined up. He called, he said, man, I'm not coming through Chicago, chairman, I'm touching down, man. Well, yeah, you know, you know, come on to the Hampton House. We go down there, we ride, it comes, it comes to the Hampton House. It's about two, three in the morning. I take them back, I show them the, the bed frame that chairman Fred this, this is actually chairman Fred's bed. Frame, I said, that's, that's the chairman's bed. I've got, he's, he, he said, man, look, he said, I said, oh, I didn't plan that. The sweater that he gave me for 85 South was laying right on the bed. I said, man, just having to be there. Wow. Then he come out and he grabbed his dirt from the, you know what I'm saying, from the front, from the front. And then the last time he came through, you know, shot at the whole, to the whole crew, 85 South. Yes sir. I mean, I love all them cats. They was, I was telling them about the time when Richard committee changed Richard Pryde who was impacted by the Panther Party. When he acknowledged Minister, Minister UEP Newton from the stage. Next day, DC Youngfly, man, on the stage, he said, man, I'm at play. He said, man, he calling pieces of parts of the movie Daniel Kaluuya's role in the movie. And he said, man, the Black Panther Party club thing. He said, I'm thinking, I'm, this December 1979, December 29th. That's the day that Minister UEP Newton, I mean, that Richard Pryde brought Minister UEP Newton out. He brought me on the stage. I mean, it was crazy. You know what I'm saying? It correlated. So we got to be innovative to get this information because everybody, we're not fortunate to have a whole bunch of people. Y'all still going to be 10. Let me write about this. Right, right. So we got to stay with them. Got to figure out how to, how to make them get interested in the information so they can retain it. That's fine for power, right on. Minister UEP Newton say, power, power is the ability to define phenomena and make it act in desired manner. Power is the ability to define phenomena and make it act in desired manner. Reverend Nat Turner put us into the ground. He said, oh, the church is phenomenal. Praise the Lord, past ammunition. Harriet Tubman said, oh, the Negro spirit is phenomenal. We ain't in the war. I mean, we down by the water when the sun go down. Chairman Freyden said, oh, the organizational question, the street organization, it's phenomenal in this city. You know what I'm saying? He defined it and made it work in the interest of the people. You know what I'm saying? So we got to see, we got to study the people. He said, what's phenomenal? And what is phenomenal? Phenomenon is unusually vented. It can be scientifically explained. What the system does to us is to incorrectly define phenomena, whether we hear pop, street organizations or not, and they make it work in the disinterest of us. We have to define it and make it work in the interest of the people. Hold on. But even there's another fun fact that she had in our article that she was so tickled over finding. But I think she said it was your father's mother who babysat Emmett Till. It's something, the connections. In fact, the brother yesterday I was talking to, we just talked about, he said, you've got to talk to this other brother in Argo that's not a T.O. family he's at right now. Right. Another, you know, they said suburb, what suburb? Argo, Illinois. And my grandma, this is my grandparents. It was my grandparents' home. My grandmother who babysat Emmett Till. And that's the connection of my. And it was your father's mother? My father's mother. So that's the connection on my paternal side. Right. Now, they just made Emmett Till's house in Chicago historical landmarks. Okay. On 65th and St. Lawrence. Okay. My maternal grandmother, my mother's mother, stayed on 64th and St. Lawrence. Hmm. Right around the corner. Yeah, yeah. Do me a favor, man. Break down to me. I hear this word because when I first started talking to you, I said, Fred Hampton Jr., man, I was excited about it. You know what I'm saying? Then, fast forward, King Noah come to the store. And that's just the confirmation. God just keep on saying, you got to get to Fred Hampton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He keeps sending people into my life. You know what I mean? So King Noah come, he's like, you know, I'm like, yeah. I said, I've been talking with him. I said, we've been talking for months trying to link this up. It's just, it needs to happen. But the one thing that he really, really would say is Chairman Fred Hampton Jr. I want you to break down what is the Chairman? What is that title? Yeah. Because, I mean, of course, out of respect, I started immediately saying Chairman Fred Hampton. I want to know what does that, how did that come about? What does that mean? I know your father had it, but just tell the people so they'll understand. Chairman, is there an age that is associated with it? Because ever since you were born, they still call you little Chairman. Right? So how does that work? Shout out to King Noah. It's just a cave. Oh, man, that's my girl, man. Cleo, she said I can say her name on here, too. Okay, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. Go on, say it. Cleo, she wanted all the smoke. Yeah, yeah, this is that. I love you, I'm gonna say it. The time when I'm coming to contact a lot of these people, you know what I'm saying? Shh, man. It's a blessing. It's a blessing, it's a blessing. Yeah, man. It's kind of grown particularly, you know what I'm saying? It's like, not only was it the top, it remains to be like a top segregated city in the country, but the checks and balances about structure, you know what I'm saying? And it's corroding now. And one of America's policies is to create chaos and then restore order. Create chaos and then restore order. I think a lot of times people, we have an issue against structure because I tell you, our first concept of that is given to us about a ruling class, about a system. Like this has to be some sort of state apparatus, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, whether it be law enforcement or whether it be the Marines or something. But a structured organization, I remember when I first got to Ireland, delegation from a long-held political prisoner, Mumia Bujumal, myself, Minister of Convertation, Pam Africa, Ramona Africa, and others. And something that burned that Devlin who was the IRA, she said, and she's banned from the United States, but she said to me, she said, I remember seeing you as a child. I remember this chain you had on your necklace, you had a chain with a bullet around it. I said, well, you said, I remember that. And she said, I remember the titles, Minister of Health, Doc Satchel, Chairman Freyham, Defense Captain Maa Klon. She said, we respected that. Her comrades. And a lot of you don't believe that we're worthy of a structure. You know what I'm saying? And also checks about, now I was known as young, they call me little chairman as a child, but the actual chairman came in with some responsibility. You know what I'm saying? And how old were you when you took on that responsibility? 1994, when we officially formed, you hear us interchangeably say POCC and BPPC. Okay. POCC is Prisons of Conscious Committee and BPPC is Black Panther Party Cubs. Okay. Interchanges we use that. Similar to the Black Panther Party, when they first formed, it was the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. That was the first name, October 15, 1966. 1966. And it wasn't here in Chicago. No, no, Oakland, California. Right. Yeah. Minister, UEP, new chairman, Bobby Seale. We would have first, so prior to the Black Panther Party Cubs, we had the Prisons of Conscious Committee. And we still interchangeably use that, you know. But that title and structure of accountability, because especially an organization that's under attack, our people, sometimes it's romantic or it's attractive to be just vague. I'll just say we're here. But without structure, without to say, okay, this is this, this is this, you know what I'm saying? You can't, that structure and accountability, that especially in particular with the revolutionary organization is needed. You know, you have forces such as Field Marshal George Jackson, who was the Field Marshal of the Black Panther Party, as he was actually born in Chicago, west side of Chicago. Henry Minister UEP, he never came in contact face to face. They were several prison cells down from each other. But they were comrades, you know what I'm saying? And that dynamic of checks and balance, so when you talk about such contradictions, infiltration, ageing of our contours, we've been, we've been infiltrating, we're going to be infiltrated, that comes with it. We had checks and balance, go back and say, wait, where did this come from? Where did this leak, like a plumber say, where did this leak come from? Where did this, where did this water come from? He just can't come see when it's come from the pipes. Right. He said, hold on, the axle, the elbow, elbow, you need any entity, you know what I'm saying? Exactly. A car mechanic, you have to have a structure, you have to say, okay, you can't go to, okay, my car messed up. He said, hold on, let me, he had to be the pinpoint there, conjuring, he said, okay, so what are people? We have differences, we have class differences, different interests, different aspirations, to be able to say, okay, wait a minute, this is where a person relates to, you know. That's exactly because what you're saying, we did an interview yesterday, and we were talking about the children, and we were talking about how we can effectively have children learn, and but everybody have different learning mechanisms, everybody don't learn the same way. Exactly. So really you have to break it down, and have, whether to do a test to see, okay, are you more of a hands-on person, are you more of a person that needs to read it, are you audit, need to hear it? Yes. So in order to know, okay, how we need to separate this class? Yes. So each and every one of us can come to the same result, but we can obtain all of the knowledge that's being given through the schools. Good, good, right on the knowledge, and also taking into account, when we talk about the brutal reality of war being waged upon us, that operates on the auspices such as war on drugs, war on guns, war on gangs, and with that, we can't romanticize that, doing our struggle. We have to be also clear that there are, with constant struggle, it's something a lot of people don't talk about. Some guys here, he like the fact that William O'Neill will be even portrayed in the movie Judas in Black Versailles. He wanted, I said, they want this romanticism. We have to, I said, in a relationship. I want the truth. The good, the bad, nothing. Exactly. You can't be in a relationship with somebody and say, man, I don't know, I don't know about her snoring. You know she snores, I don't hear about that. Y'all don't know about the relationship, what you mean? Contradict, they acknowledge that. Well, I don't know about him coming in late. They acknowledge these kinds, you know what I'm saying? And we talk about a movement to our people, to be able to do the Black Panther Party. I don't romanticize it. I study the different dynamics. I say, when you talk about, man, we went to William O'Neill's funeral and paid our disrespects. Yeah. James gloves Davis, they took it down a view too. We went to his funeral and said, see, LV hanging hand, the former Cook County State Attorney, we went and showed our disrespect at the funeral. When you do something like that, do they like try to escort you out? Oh, man, how does that work? Oh, it's, oh, it's, oh, we didn't have some. How does that work? Okay. This little background who hanging hand is, hanging hand was to set to be the next mayor of Chicago after Mary Daly. Okay. Mary Daly's political water boy. He was a, he was the poster child for the face of the assassination, the chairman for the fiscal tomorrow. He's a Cook County State's attorney. Now, and that's a title. In fact, Chicago Cook County was, if not one, if not the only one, a few places were considered to be a promotion to go from attorney general for the feds to go to the Cook County State's attorney. You know what I'm saying? So he came from that to go, you know what I'm saying? So this, man, it used to be, Chicago Cook County was the largest populous of black people in the country. There used to be, now it's a whole different dynamic going on now. But that, his funeral, I mean, we're talking about, we're hearing about it and people would not be able to stay still circling his name. And some forces went along with us because they didn't know who he was. Right. It wasn't because of bravery. It was not easy to, you know what I'm saying? And we went there and we, you know, and it messed people up. Like I guess they, they, they, they, they seen, it was no, there was no Negro police even there. Right. You know what I'm saying? So they can see you coming from a mile away. Man, we've seen this coming a mile away into my, and man, it went down up in there. You know what I'm saying? It's, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's some still pictures posted. You know, you know, we, we, we, it's kind of hard. Don't shoot a video, I can't really, I don't know, but it was, it was, it was a, it was a, it was a rumble. Well, I, you know, and, and, it's times like that, that pretty much for you to be able to, be able to deal with the, the situation in order to organize, you know, with, whether it be the Black Panther Party or the Black Panther Cubs, you know, whatever the case may be, you know, that takes a special type of individual, especially with you being, you know, having a DNA for it ham to senior. You know, it's just, it's, it's a remarkable thing to see that God has given us something to where it still has that spirit. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, it's so much needed, especially with, with everything that's going on around us, you have to inject that in it, in a scenario in order for our people to feel even safe at times. You have to have organized a structure. Like you said, about chairman, you know, like I said, for you to be able to, you, you have to hold on to that. You know what I mean? And, and I think that's, I like that. That's dope, you know? So, um, but ODC young flying them took you on stage. I like that too, because they deal with a lot of the youth. They deal with a lot of young people. So at the end of the day, with them dealing with the people that they deal with, 85 South, Ben is a show, you know, a springboard where they came, they dealt with a while and now, now type that whole crowd of people that follows them for them to be able to inject you into that scenario. There's another big, gigantic, enormous thing, you know what I mean? So to, to, to hear that just, it's being older cat, you know, it just, it shows me that there's hope. And I guess the subjective, okay, we were, we was going to Atlanta for another move. This cat was talking about, he was going to be on for the speaking engagement now. And bless the brother who was hooking up, bless his heart. I was telling him, the cat who was talking about, he didn't really know who I was. You know what I'm saying? A lot of times you get, you know, you got to go through the process. He's like, no, they don't, they don't know about the Black Panthers. You're going, I said, okay. So we go through the whole trip. We get down there. So now it's reality he didn't do. Like, man, I didn't know who this was. You know, so I said, on a trip. So I tell my guy, it ain't no hard. So he really just kind of messed up. I was trying to explain, it's a different, it's a different dynamic. So we ended up speaking to some youngsters. I think there's more houses, some other schools, just like, I mean, a lot of my best moves I'm playing. And then some cats seen me in the restaurant. Okay, brother, scapegoat, I think that's his name. He said, man, I know that I recognize that hat. He said, man, you're the chairman. You know what I'm saying? I said, yeah. He said, man, what you doing to mom, man? He said, man, I said, we got to hit the road. He said, you got to come to 85 South. I want him to get to 85 South. Man. Lot of cats took, man, chairman, go on there, man. You be joking, comedy show. I said, okay, man. I said, this is hard. I said, yeah, but every youngster, I talked to you like, man, 85. I said, we gone. Cat too. We gone. I said, I told this kid one time, big deal. He's like the point man for Wacka Flocka. He told me, he said, hey man, how you be dealing with all this stuff? Going doing these Odyssey Johnson's and stuff, man. We been, he said, I'm getting tired of this. I said, man, I got to be the good, the bad, the ugly. I just can't drink. No, I could feel the water. You want to reach everybody. We going to 80. You want to reach everybody. We going, you know what I'm saying? And we going in with the recognizing reality that there are some cows with you too. Exactly. We don't come in. I tell you, we don't come in with this romanticism that everybody's going to. See, we're hiding the contradictions. That's something they say about the movie on movies. They say, champ, you always saying that. See, we got to, we not going to, see, you set yourself up for disappointment when you come in and think everybody going to be on the same, on the same position. You're hiding the contradiction. You learn about yourself. I tell you, when I was locked up, one of the best sale mates I ever had was gathering in with Chairman Frey and having to enjoy it. I studied me. I watched him. I said, I'm see you going to do now on this hunger strike. That's what happened. He finished transferring you to the Super Max. I studied that. How long did you stay locked up? Total, total, a little bit under nine years. And when you first got locked up, was it something to where, you know, with your father being locked up like he was, did you think about that? No, no doubt about it. I, one of the nicknames, one of the monocles I was giving was Deja Vu. Yeah. That was in Manar. Manar was the prison that was depicted in movie Judas and Black Messiah. Chairman Frey was sent to Manar after he was in the state field. He was in the state field first. And they call you by your name, your number, not your name. That's right. And every time they approached him with a number, if he responded, he said, I'm Deputy Chairman Frey. You know what you have to Chairman of the Black Panther Party. They said he had to be criminally mentally insane for refusing to answer this number. Transferred him to Manar, 1969. Wow. I get bounced. Now all the time I'm on the circuit being transferred, you know what I'm saying. When he finally told me he'd sent me to Manar, he was like, boom, here we go. Oh, yeah? Here we go, you know what I'm saying? This is 1999. Yeah. So I get down there. I met some of the same guys who was there that was, who had not went home. That's right, that's right. That sounds like it'd be about right. And the cast was telling me, they said, man, yeah, that was our thing. Hitting prisons for the administration. Wow. They said, that was the move. When Chairman come down, that was the plan. They said, man, Chairman hit that yard. Man, he got the politicized. You know what I'm saying? Man, we told, we told the ward, man. We don't chairman for your security. Anything happen to them? We don't know what you're accountable for. Oh, wow. That's right. When I was down there, they had a... You see, that wasn't in the movie. No, you can't, you can't, you can't put a shark in the fish tank. You can't tell everything about this. You know what I'm saying? You can't, you can't, you can't... That was, that's the thing, though. You can't get a real talk. That's very deep. When I first got to Manar, I looked for the gun, first I looked for any prison. I checked the gun tout. Probably two of them up there. So when I get there, about eight of them. I said, okay. Mm-hmm. So it's, uh, it's particularly, uh, appeared in Torville. I remember like it's yesterday. Real short. He come trying to make, maybe get reactionary, you know what I'm saying? Tell him a property. They put out a newspaper. Chicago, sometimes. So the picture of my father, picture chairman Fred on there. Gang activity. Take him out. They send a warden, warden page. And they do some reactionary, some racism. He come in, he's throwing out... He part of this gang, he part of this gang. They sit in the North Side. I get over the North Side. They get me down there. So we're traveling. He here, he here. So brother's like, man, you up there? I said, yeah. They said, man, you know, the jam was over in the same, uh, you know, I said, what? I said, yeah, it's North Side. You ain't know, I said, no, it's my first time in Monod. Wow. They said, man, matter of fact, gallery, what gallery you on? I said, I'm selling, I said, man. They said it's the same gallery. They said, the chair, what sale? I said, you know what? We're gonna start this company right now. Yeah. We're going back. We're coming right now. I said, man, they're too close to home, man. And they gave him a nickname, Deja Vu, that's what they call me. Deja Vu, yeah. Wow, that's crazy. If you don't mind me asking, what were you, what was the reason you was put in prison? That, that case they hit me with was, uh, technically legally, legally charged, two trumped up cases of aggravated arson. Okay. The, the, the deal? Why was that? Man, they made it clear during the quote unquote trial. Say quote, it was, it was a legal lynching. They questioned what they put forward. Aren't you, uh, chairman, Fred Hampton Jr., you know? Man, we, the jurors, they would do, they like, what, what was the case? You know what they did? They, you know what I mean? They sample, after the, after the rebellions happened, after the, uh, the semi-valley verdict by Rodney King, BNB. Right. When the decision came down and the uprising happened throughout the country, they gave me a case. I posed a fire bomb in these two stores on the south side of Chicago. But when I was locked up, it was, didn't you write this article? Didn't you, don't you believe that, didn't you write this? That's, they made it clear I was a political prisoner and I was subsequently sentenced to, uh, 18 years. And at that time you were served half of the time, uh, in Illinois. Yeah. How did your, um, mom handle it when, um, this case came up? Trooper. Soldier. She, man, uh, I always say, I feel fortunate if, uh, fallen from the tree of two freedom fighters, Chairman Fred Hampton, also for cool and jerry. I said something for her to go. To witness her husband, the comrade of Manard, then her son, the comrade of the young manard. Right, yes. I remember the day when they convicted me and said guilty. I remember that. I remember, I remember taking my watch off, giving them my watch. Um, a whole, man, held in line, man. I, that's a poem I did called The Mother Old. I broke, I talk about her, you know what I'm saying? Talk about a lot of poems, but she, that's my 81 from day one. You know what I'm saying? She, she, she. Hannah, because you're the only child. Yeah, and, you know, that's, because I'm a lady to laugh, one time she said, what did you call your mother? I said comrade. Right. She, she, she said, and that's, I mean, this is, this is, this is, um, and I'm, you can't really, this is my comrade. Can you always call her that? All right, as you got older. As I got older, you know what I'm saying? As I got older, you know. Of course, you know, you know, children subject to this, you know, as your mama, you know what I'm saying? But all, but through battle, we've been, you know what I'm saying? Right. We've been in situations until like, you know, we've been going, you know, we had to go against the ground. You know, I mean, I remember about 12 years old. I tell, I tell the story a lot. A book deal was brought to her. And really the book was really building up the police. There was a violent assassination. We didn't have no, no heat in our house, none, freezing. And I remember I asked the son, I said, if that happens, do that mean we get heating up? She wouldn't go. She said, and people, there was a people that was in the Panther Party. Now make sure you clear on that when I distinguish those that was in the Black Panther Party and those that were Black Panthers. Okay. Now people that was in the Panther Party, family members, slanted a one against, you know, you know, all crazy, you know, this, this before this, how do you, how do young cats say, now get the bag? Yeah. These, it was cats gonna get the bag, but, but way back then, she held a line. All through the script. Integrity in her. All through the script. Yeah. And that's, that's to be commended. Man, it's, it's, man. And it's commended and it, man, it's age. You can't explain. Words can't explain it, man, you know. Because when I think about a story, it's like, okay, when I watch any movies or, you know, learn about history, about the things that we've been through. And this isn't my father. Yes, it's my great grandfather, you know, because your past, you don't know a lot of them. Right. But they probably went through a lot. But you actually know that your father, what he went through. But when I see these things, it makes me angry. You know, I get upset sometimes that hatred comes into my heart for just a second. And sometimes you just have to let it go. When you find out, found out about all these things that happened, did you have any hate? Anger. Anger. Before I seen, before I knew about the assassination, I knew about the love of the, you know what I'm saying. And, and, and Che Guevara said that no matter how preposterous it may sound, a revolution is guided by the most sincerest feelings of love. And I don't get that twisted, like, you know, this small kumbaya turning other cheek and we all just, you know, you know, just get some green juice and some bean bags. Phil Marshall George Jackson, his mother, George Jackson, said at the prison here. I think he assassinated George, Phil Marshall George. He assassinated his younger brother, Jonathan Jackson before that. She said he had a rage of passion in him on one hand, but she said he had a love for the people that you couldn't describe. And that's what we got it of. You know what I'm saying? And it's important that people understand the moves we do is that we love the people. You know what I'm saying? We have, you know, so it's not guided from a reactionary. I'm just, you know, my first contact is not they killed my dad. My first, you know what I'm saying? Like you, you very. You look at a bigger picture. In fact, you go through a road calling my speeches. Probably never heard me say the police killed my daddy. You know what I'm saying? The governor assassinated the chamber. Exactly. Exactly. It's like boxing. So when you box that pain, like you say, if you hit it, it should show you how to do it. And karate had to spray it through the body. You know, it makes it, the people's pain reflects. You know what I'm saying? This is, you know what I'm saying? This wasn't just, this wasn't just my father. This is, this is this one, our representative, our major. You know what I'm saying? So we have to be able to put this objectively. So we don't think, I'll tell you people. Don't take it too far. They take it subjective. We have a saying subjectivity stunts one's ability to make proper summations. You know, a lot of guys talk to me. You just count the times you hear them say me and I. That's true. They really, really, the world revolves around them. I'll be with the champ. We got some new forces. People are gonna come on. They look at my face. They say, champ, we know you. They say, champ, you ain't happy. I'll be with them. They knew, the newbie will be thinking like, man, here we go. Because it's pros and cons of that. Can I tell people, come in this the first time, police kill somebody. This the first time this happened. They come with the energy to be good, but they, it's subjective. It's no past history. You know what I'm saying? To take into account, this, this, this, this, this the road, this the road, this the in mode, this the motor's operandi. How this system gets down. Will it ever stop? No, this system, as long as this imperialism needs, no, this, this system, it's a system that that's, that's the ingredients. That's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the barking of a dog. That's the fish swimming. That's the, the parasitical policy, the parasitical relationship. You know what I'm saying? It's natural. You know, one, it was birthed up for that. It was, you know what I'm saying? The first, the, the, you look at the people, the police, they just, they didn't get back. The history, during the era of child slavery, that was the first, that was the patrol to catch runaway slaves. Can and able. This, this the whole, this the diet, this the really, this the way it is. You can, you know what I'm saying? So we had to put this in context. See this, you know what I'm saying? We hiding the contradiction. This was this system, you said the system was broken. This was what it was designed to do. It was, it was that, you know what I'm saying? No man, you're talking about the whole colonizing the people and you have to have, to be a successful drug dealer, cats could have habits. So if it's never going to change and this is always going to be like this, what's the fight for? Self-determination. Self-determination. I don't know how cliche it is, but the right to determine destiny of our communities, you hiding the contradictions and, and, and, and, in our, uh, uh, one of the axioms of Santa Lisa said, Latin America, the will of the people is greater than the man's technology. You hiding the contradictions, you know what I'm saying, to the point, it's like the, the, it's more the people, hard, hard, harder is it, hard is it is to believe the people outnumber this, this is the system, you know, and in this situation, like Tom, like other, not Tom, Patrick Henry, his thing was, you know, give me liberty, give me death, you know, but that wasn't the same as everybody related, the reality is, Thomas Jefferson said, uh, the majority of people of the American Revolution related to one third was for it, one third was against it, and one third, went your way to win, you didn't care. Once you had any contradictions, you'll be surprised for the concession, because what, on the killings heels of this system is to acknowledge it, because you know what I'm saying, to call it, that's what, that was one of the setbacks that they had, they had to pull back with Trump, because it was such an arrogance, he was, he was saying, point blank, this was, this was, this, and everybody can't accept that. Exactly, and also it does not work in the system's benefit, you know what I'm saying, that's what like when, you recall when he said, how you reference Africa, you know what I'm saying, he said Africa is a shithole. Yeah. Yeah. Dick Durham and the rest of them, they, they ain't one, hey man, you bogus, you out of order for saying, they like, hey man, I'ma say it like that. Yeah. Dick Durham, Trump say, man, but they gonna say the same thing, but they say it in different ways. Exactly, that's the whole thing. McEvelly and we're gonna say, can I tell you, you know what I'm saying, Kennedy and Nixon. You know what I'm saying, Kennedy, the Bay of Pigs, the South Nation's on, coming up in the field, Fidel Castro, under Kennedy, you know what I'm saying, President John Kennedy, he was his brother, Robert Kennedy, they put a wiretap on Dr. King. So this is what you said, because he thought you, not to give us these euthanasia. When Nixon came in, pulled a cap, he said, man, campaign for law and orders, going down. It forced, you know what I'm saying, it was stuffed, there forced people to say, okay, wait a minute, and I want to be careful with Seneca, I mean, I was talking to, I was saying, talking to Kennedy, one of the days she said, Jam, you saying about Trump, I said, no, no, I'm not, don't get it twisted, I'm not with the Republican party, the only Democratic party, with the Black Panther party. We come from the Clause, when the era of child slavery, when the Civil War was going on, people were fighting over the Blue Coast, and who jacket you gonna wear the gray coat? We ain't with the Union or the Confederate, we were revving that turning Harriet Tubman. No, you definitely, you got, it's something about your spirit, like I said, to be able to understand how to even speak on the subjects and organize the whole situation with what you're dealing with today, you know, that can be something to where it can be something to where it can become something under fire, you know what I mean? Because people are looking at that and you're injecting help into our people when you do that. So that's some of the things that keeping other guys locked up, because they know if they let them out, then it's gonna be something that pretty much gonna inject change for our people to come together more. So for you to be out here doing what you're doing, the work you're doing and being able to articulate within the conversation of these organizations is a thread in itself. Real talk. I mean, because that, when you said I'm not from the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, I'm from the Black Panther Party, that's a whole situation. Whole situation, because deal is, this system in particular is Machiavellian were giving you quote-unquote options, you know what I'm saying? America's definition of diplomacy is letting others have their way. America's definition of diplomacy is letting others have their way. So in other words, they don't make people not right, so we demand more McDonald's where they say, okay, okay, you got it. Once you're in Chicago, if you want more camera, that was a gender through the dope. But they're not a full script, making it like you fall for this. You know what I'm saying? That's diplomacy. We gave you the whole, even the dynamical of a vote. It's the facade of freedom. Malcolm X said America's democracy is an hypocrisy. It allows for Hillary Clinton to go to a robin island prison and say, oh, this is horrible. This may be a 24, 27 years in this place. At the same time, under your husband's tenure, and you're saying, and you and her in major positions, you had Geronimo Di Giorgo, you know what I'm saying? You had Sunday, Sunday, I called a recent release political prisoners, he just got out, but you still had them on Miyabu Jamal's and you know what I'm saying? So many others who are here are captives, Shelson-Kyman Gees, and countless of others. But that America, with the Cuba, President Obama administration, they asked a Raul Castro, well, we heard that human rights violation of, man, for that Castro got jumped off the bed. Oh, he said, hold on, you got jumped off the bed. He said, let me address this here. Because it's a facade of freedom that allows them to go around the world and check and say, do you have human rights violations and it's going down right here? But you're euthanized, you want drugs, you want, Chicago, which is infamous before it just shot right. You can pull the numbers up, let's say last night, 24 murder, at least 24 people shot. Now I ain't checking the numbers, I guarantee you. I ain't no psychic, I ain't nothing, I guarantee you. You know what I'm saying? Three days ago, they said 28 shot, 10 dead. If you take that narrative, you switch it around and take black people about that narrative and say, 28 poodles, 28 white poodles got shot and 10 dead. You ain't gotta say, man shut, man. Yeah. Peter, though every entity, it won't be no, it won't be no elementary discussion, like you think it's dog on dog crime? You know what I'm saying? You think it'd be some discussion. It's going to be some action. It's going to be some, it's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be some consequence. It's going to be some pen and some tail on some pigs. That's right. It's going to be some dogs, it's going to be some, wait a minute, the AKC, the kennels, who's in charge? That's correct. Who somebody is in charge. Somebody don't get it. Ain't no poop, ain't no pit bulls, no pools, and no gold retrievers making these decisions for us to do this to each other. Somebody in power is responsible for this here. They're going to relate to the criminal psychologist saying, you know, the first thing you look for in the crime scene is what? Who benefited? Who benefited? You see, no, man, it's not right. You can, I mean, you can literally, you can tap, man, connect the dots. You know what I'm saying? To the railroad companies, you know what I'm saying? The Cartel, the Relational United, the U.S. The whole dynamic. But when you connect the dots, sometimes you have to go too far back. No doubt about it. And it's scary because you start, you start touching, you know what I'm saying? Politics, you start touching dynamics and the question yourself, like, you know, how do you fit in it? You know what I'm saying? Your relationship, and it's simple, but it's complex. Right. It's simple, you know what I'm saying? Because we're able to see it, amongst each other. Like, a lot of people, gang content, like, man, this dude, you got to be on the hustle. You doing this and that. When it comes to the system, people say, no, I can't believe, I can't believe they're doing that. No, I just, like I said, when I think about the way that you guys, you know, you guys have, where we come from, you know, to be able to still stand strong and firm on a belief system where you're trying to uphold our people is something to be proud of. But when we talked earlier, you spoke, you said, it was Buster Rhymes, it was, we talked about Tupac, we talked about IHT, we talked about A to 5 South, you know, who other boys entertainers that are people that you can, you know, can call on a trust when it comes down to situations, because these people, like I said, and I say this all the time, when this hip hop thing spiraled into this, you know, in your era, these are some powerful people, man, when they come down to economics and stuff like that, you know, generational wealth, is it any of those people, anybody that you can, you know, trust to come into a situation in hell? It's what I'm saying, Pastor David was just talking to me yesterday, asking that same question. Yeah. You know, I say, you know, it's not, I don't take it personal, it's everything, you know, it just gives me, it provides me with my sanity. You know, I was talking a lot of stuff personal, stuff like, you know, you're like, man, it's because you've done so much. That's why I'm saying it. You would think, yeah, a lot of people respond, other communities, you say, man, you look at, you better believe, even if you didn't document, you better believe that Justin Timberlake is some relationship with this community. That's correct. You know what I'm saying? That's right. But you have to keep in context too, you know what I'm saying, like the political dynamics of, I said, we the last call for alcohol. It's a lot of, they don't even see, and even how they view revolutionaries, even a lot of these guys, even how they view resources, they have a lot of cash, you mentioned, you said something, generational wealth. Yeah. A lot of these guys come from, you come from loot, and you know what I'm saying? They have no, like they really, it's like, I done seen some of these people, artists I'm talking to, but we need some resources. I'm talking Charlie Brown teaching language to them, you know what I'm saying? They, a lot of cash, a lot of cash in the streets, you know what I'm saying? They can't have no, have no fame or reference of it. They're, a lot of their concept of a, their first concept of organizations, be a lot of these GMOs, government-made organizations, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. There's no, if no fame or references, some cash really getting down. That's why it's important to see some cash who's, like, I tell people, all the movies I've seen on Childless Slavery, I like this one called, Book of Negroes. That's crazy. The way I sit down, I feel weird saying that, but it's show African people, fighting back in a non-reactionary way. What that means is, they want, cause they got captured, they was free. And they was fighting, cause a lot of the, a lot of the people, our people are subjected to what we would call the Sprewell effect. What I mean by that is, Sprewell, check that white coach about what? Choked, disrespecting him. Yeah, yeah. Life we've never seen an organization that stands up and fights for our people. Do you know what I'm saying? Correct. So that's a form that it's a reactionary thing that they come through and they give us certain spokespersons, you know what I'm saying? And they make you think that you picked them, you be like, damn, it's like, it's like God say, God go to the lounge, you say, excuse me, you say a lot of guys can do that, he chose the woman. And she lay back and let, she laugh and let on. She said, I've seen you coming in for two weeks straight. You know, he's amazing. Man, I peeped you. I've seen you. Now these leaders entertain us. We think that, you know what I'm saying? The day that we chose them, they give us, they allow, and also they have what we call dying the bag. Dying the bag means, I tell a cat, a cat go up in the bank calling, give me a loop, give me a loop. And they give you money real quick. You have to be real cautious because you, it got dying the bag. A lot of the people they give you, they know how far it's going to go. They got their background, they like a maturing cat, they know what trigger words and shut them down. You know what I'm saying? They excite you. This will demoralize you. You know what I'm saying? Some of you say it makes sense. Some of us saying they're being selected. No doubt about it. So basically when you look at them, a lot of them, something else you said that basically they didn't come from poverty. A lot of these guys come from brick homes. And you'll be surprised. And you'll be surprised, man. And guess what? Yeah. Their parents sold out before they even could sell out. So they was born into a, they was born into a sold out situation. Man through the door. As a matter of fact, they didn't even sold out. Sell out is one of the most overused terms in our community. Quote me on that. Sell out is one of the most overused. They was cashless. They was never even connected to the community. They were never even connected to the community. If they wanted it, don't take it personal. And like you said, Matt can't believe it. You look at it. I look at some of these people's faces I've been talking to them. They really cannot relate to, you know what I'm saying? We gotta say, he turns more than me black. Wow. He turns more than me black. Certain conditions. Now Michael Jackson first, with his first song, don't make a difference if you black or white. When he changed the song to they don't care about us, when he caught that case. That's correct. When he caught that case. See, it's like, it's like, you got a lot of times, I talk to these different people. I say, okay, hold on. They fighting the kid. I got to study them. You know what I'm saying? You get used to the atmosphere to climb everything. It's a certain dynamic. No matter what you say, I tell you, don't flatter yourself. You don't, I mean, a lot of people say, Some people don't understand unless it touches home. Him, not even home. They roam. Touch it, right. They roam. Yeah, exactly. They're not even concerned about the home. You got these kids who have no family connections. You know, Big Gibb says some, I was on some interviews, Big Gibb says some, Goody Ma, he was talking about, he's even, he said, even how they look for you to be an entertainment industry. You got, he said, they don't want, no ties, no connections. You can't have no family tech, no, no loyalty to nothing else. They pick you out. He said, you can't have no, you come in some backbone. That's a problem. That's right. I agree with that. That's a, I can see that being an issue. He, it's a, man, he can drop the mic when you say it that. Yeah. It's, man, it's a tactic. Like when the pimp go to the Greyhound bus station, grab the girl. He disconnected from a family, from a community. And what you do is second nature. You know what I'm saying? That movie, that James Brown movie. Remember what the white dude was talking to him? Man, what's going on? James Brown said, I know what time it is. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. He said, I know how this go. He remembered as a child. Cut them off. You know what I'm saying? See, I failed fourth year English grammar English class. Yeah. Cause I come on us and we. Wow. You. Us and we. That, that's, that's deep. I can imagine that because going through with all the knowledge that you know growing up as a kid and still had to go to public school where they don't really teach what home was teaching you. With the history of us. Black people and stuff. They had to be tough. Right. And when they're teaching things that you're like, no, that's not right. What are you talking about? You get, we look like we, we got to be, not until we draw a foregone conclusion. In Chicago alone, not a whole, they're talking to students. It starts at home. The number of homeless students. The home ain't got, you know what I'm saying? The home, the structure, you know what I'm saying? Even to my Africa. Other communities, you hear about stuff, something just happened in Mexico. It's a pride. You, right? Come through Chicago doing Cinco de Mayo. You see the flags, the May Cano flags. You see children. They, they, where they walk is a pride. People are proud about where they're from. You also say that to me in plain language, so you say, man, chairman, you say, man, we, we ain't, we, I'm not around with no flag. You say, where our flag? I see, I talk to him in Garvey Gate. What's the red? The black and the green. He said, man, what'll happen to us if we ride around with that? Hmm. He said, what'll happen to us? Wow. Get, be targeted. What target? There ain't no doubt about it. We had the high net contradiction. You know what I'm saying? The dynamics of, the, man, continue attacks. You know what I'm saying? Language of the, and not to have a, not to have a base that you can connect to as a people. You know what I'm saying? It's embarrassing being on press. See, I never thought about that because like, I'm Jamaican and I'll have a flag in my car and it, it, it, you feel a sense of pride when you see somebody else drive past and have that flag. Yes. They even, too. They're a whore until they can recognize each other to know that we're here. Yes. Yes. You know what I mean? It don't mean that you gotta be antagonistic against another community. Against another community. But still, something that you believe, something that you can connect with, it belongs to people. Right. Let me say this. Chicago is the head of the street tribes. Street owners say, they can pick up a, they had a structure. Like, it's one of my guys, you know what I'm saying? Oh, by the way, I'll be remiss if I, I miss some political prisoners earlier. I came to Chicago without mentioning Mr. Larry Hoover, man, a brother, he knows Jeff Fort, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, when I think about just our people, people of color, if we broke down those barriers, like Mike talked about on the show, and we took away the Jamaican, you know, black, the African black, and the American black, and we all, It was just black. And if it was just black, it'd be something different. If we could break those boundaries, you know what I mean? I spoke at the, I spoke on the panel last night, for other four pounds from Nigeria. Okay. And they were talking about, in fact, the panel, the title was Bridge and the Gap. Yeah. I said, about the, let's just acknowledge the gap. Yeah. I said, right now, we're on the panel of North, 2016, North Haustid. This is a different world from 54th South Haustid, where our headquarters was to be at. Mm hmm. And our people, we come from homeland, we know what part to go to in Chicago of North. You know what I'm saying? And it's not, we have, it's flattering to say that we just broke those black barriers down. The deal is, politics, food, clothing, and shelter, how the price of gas, who gets health care, how you're treated. These are not barriers that we are in control of. That's right. You know what I'm saying? See, it's well, it's like, we come in with this romanticism. Like, you know, like, you know, we just, we just change, you know, change free, you know, free of mind, your ass will follow, just change stuff. There are conditions, we have to acknowledge these contradictions. You know what I'm saying? West side of South, South of Chicago, two different dynamics. In fact, you know what I'm saying? You can see, you know, like, when I grew up, you can't even go, you know what I'm saying? I've seen, I've seen, see, see, talking about the West side and South side. Yeah. In a layman's turn, she was expressing some political contradictions. It's, we have to come to grips with acknowledging contradictions what they're necessarily being antagonistic. Because see, if you don't acknowledge them, the state will do. It's like when people say, well, I won't talk, I won't talk to my daughter about it. I won't talk, I won't talk about something about the police, you know what I'm saying? That's, that's something I'm gonna, oh, oh, he, he's gonna learn. When he get in that, when he get in that room, and he not clear, and you, you wonder why he, the police talking to him, he think that's his friends? We have to hide these, you know what I'm saying? It's not, they, not, see, when you as a Cointel program, counterintelligence program, when the US government, and they own words, a program created to discredit the mass, disrupt and destroy any Black national movement, especially most of youth. Over 90% of them are directed to the Black Panther Party. When they approach certain forces, they try the infamous letters, they send the letters, the brown bag letters, the US letters, to Jeff Ford, not only Chief Monique, the Black Panther Party. Chairman Frey acknowledged the contradictions, you know what I'm saying? Don't come in with this Coomba, y'all, we all doing the same thing. You're setting yourself of disappointment. Correct. You know what I'm saying? In the, in the relationship, in the relationship or situation, people, not the people who they want to hear. I say, on any fact, I'll tell you, I can't go to the Pesto. They tell you, ain't no more pit bull. I say, you said, man, I'll, well, give me what you got. You get a goldfish. You throw the leash on them. You bring them home. That's why I bring y'all to me. Man, they both, he's set up. Man, he left to me. He ain't barking or nothing. This is not a pit bull. Now that people tell you what they are. You know what I'm saying? Oh, like those certain detour, you hear some guy named, he come in, do you say, man, what I think, dude, what's his name? I think he got some other stuff. What did you hear his name? That's how people tell you that you hear what you want to hear. So we need that structure. It's, we are impacted by certain, the different dynamics in Chicago. You, when you talk about, it's a, it's such a structure. You can tell it, even when you say, okay, man, what year they coming in? Okay, as gangsters, disciples, growth and development, y'all saying the stars, where era they come from? And it's not putting the owners of responsibility on an individual. You're taking into account whether conditions are, this impacts everything. That's the history, right? That's the history, and also the conditions. You talk about food, doing food, you say, okay, where they come from? They come from Vietnam. Who was cognized of Vietnam but they were from the French? Oh, that's North Vietnam and South Vietnam. See, see other communities, acknowledge those contradictions in Korea. Give me your song. Made it clear to US. You say, oh, the South Korea is rolling with you. That's not here. Wow. In Vietnam, Uncle Ho Chi Minh, Jiop, they made it clear. No, North Vietnam, we were independence. So the discussion about the Tet offensive, other dynamics started going down. Made it clear. You can't, we can't, we can't come with this elementary assessment. Oh, that's one of the genres. We all, the family, we all together. Chairman Frey had two siblings. Older brother and older sister. As children, they were different. Love them all. At school across the street. Frey, not Chairman Frey, he wasn't even in school yet. Okay. The white boys had beat up his older brother. Frey took a wagon for the bottles over to the school and get down with them. As a child. Wow. 12 years old, man. 12 years old. The lady was in school. She told me this. 12 years old. This kid, man. Wasn't no swimming pool facilities. And we're still fighting about that right now to this day. They got a pool. They ain't nothing to him and the others. And it's not open. Right now, I'm going to take you all by that. I'll show you that. He goes, he see, he see a male roles part. White children over there swimming. He ain't going to do it. He's at 12 years old. This is a contradiction. He's going to get the students. The lady tell him, she said, she said, he took these sticks and cardboard. I said, what? She said, you heard me. Branches. Stuck them through cardboard. Go up there and protest. For us that were swimming pool. The police throw tear gas canisters out there. He picked the hot tear gas canisters and threw it back at the police. When the FBI called for a wide tap on his house, right at them. The D.C. Bureau thought it was a typo. This kid can't be no 13, 14 years old, man. When he went to the provisional, he's high school. I can't, I forgive him. I can't be getting this, for getting his ladies' names. Bob Johnson, the former C.O.B.T. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bob Johnson. His ex-wife. Okay. She had technically won the homecoming queen at the high school. Okay. White administration says they ain't having to hear. The white girl often to get that. He challenged that. They use the high school with her. Y'all, he challenged that. They said, okay, we're going to get a concession. Both of them get the homecoming queen. This is before he was in the Black Panther Party. They studied them. Listen, man, we got some, man, they do this to our people. They know our lineage. They don't need no more provisional to tell whose son is who. They can pick up on your body language. This is a problem right here. Let me ask you this, and I hate to take you back there, but the prison, because being wanted to understand prison, when you went to prison, how much did that impact who you are as a person at times that you got to sit down and study yourself? Let me say this about, I don't take for granted that I'm alive, my sanity. That's right. In fact, Minister U.E.P. Newton said if it was not for the support of the people, I would have come out of there in the pine box, if it come out of there at all. That's right. Because prison is designed not for the rehabilitation to break the will and spirit of men, women, and children. That's right. I still have a love for the people, and I see certain, I'm starting to, I don't want to become bitter to the point you don't say, because that's a major ingredient is a revolutionary love for the people. Correct. And I catch myself now, because not just for health, ladies would check on my mother's blood pressure the other day. I said, check mine. Because I felt a phenomenal piece, March, a few days before that, and it was off the hook. Man, you had all, man, you used to go on some real sons of guns, sons of doors. Man, every now and you think of, man, they chosen who's right there with us, March. We got another coming up in a minute. And my chest was tight, and I said, she took my blood pressure. She said, ooh. She said, she said, you need this. She said, man, she said, oh, yeah, he needed this. You know, so I'm trying to pick my moves, but I don't want to ever become, I say, I be worried is to break him, like the love for the people, you know what I'm saying? Because I love our people, but this is a hell of a job, man. Now, I get it. This is a hell of a job. So how was this prison state? Prison, how it impacted you as a person? I met the best, I met, man, I met the best, the raw reality, like Malcolm X said, America self as a prison minister, you even said, prison is a microcosm outside community. I studied myself, the hunger strikes, all of that, you know what I'm saying? I, you know, you can see, which takes you along like six months to see on the streets, you can see in the six days, you know what I'm saying? Being transferred, conditions, all that you know. Patience, patience. Patience. You definitely learn patience, right? And you definitely learn faith, right? Faith and patience. You hear me a lot, always give a scientific analysis on that, you know what I'm saying? Obviously, one brother introduced me one time, he said, champ, I don't think he believes you know what I'm saying? I said, you got me confused, Jack. I said, did this here, man? This time, I'll be on a battlefield, you know what I'm saying? And it's things that I'm here, that I, that you really can't ask because I mean, I can't be here and kiss the casket, tango with torch and dance or death. Yeah. When I was a minor, I just knew I wasn't coming about here. I tell them people on visits like, man, I'm not here. I'm not coming about here alive. They, I mean, man, they got my pitching chairman pitching the gun towel right now to this date. They got, you get six months out of your sentence. In Staveville, August 1998, they shot at me through the gun towel, a guard named Voight, a man called a prisoner, pushed me out of the way called the bookshelves in his collarbone. When I, they put a guy in the cell me mental ill. The plan was to have me took out Big Muddy River. We call it Big Bloody River. They probably, we call it Harold Washington trade, the poison food trade. Oh, you man, they, oh man, a countless of times, man. Wow, riots? Oh, yeah, yeah, uprisings and get-owns. I mean, you know, infamous Staveville, I-House segregation beatings. All of you familiar with Jackie Wilson? Check, man. Jackie, Andrew Wilson, they killed Andrew Wilson in the joint. But the Wilson brothers was subject to the largest, one of the largest man who hunted Chicago history, Mary Jane Byrne, put a $10,000 hit on the head. Lieutenant John Burge, who was homegrown terrorist, who was trained in Fort Benning, Georgia. He had the black box. Had an electric shock you on your sex organs. They caught him and threw him out of Wendell downtown. Jackie Wilson was locked up with us, man. They, man, he's just a recent release, man. I'm, in fact, I'm gonna connect y'all with them, man. Man, I'm just, I ain't seen this, I ain't seen since he's been out. He, it was times we, I'll get some liberty to talk about this, man. I-House was the notorious beatings in Staveville. They, I mean, he was a lieutenant, Luther Manning. He had a whole crew. And this is my first time in the max. They took me out of Shawnee, the medium, and sent me to the max. And it was a March 10th. Yeah, I mean, that's, did they hear where Tubman was born? It was the same year, Biggie Smalls, that murdered, cause I remember hearing on the TV, and they shipped me out on March 10th. And I come to Staveville, come through there, the gallery, you know what I'm saying? Remember the rats, the roaches, all that going through the gallery. So the guard, you like, man, what say y'all gonna go in, it's about seven, eight, like, like the, like the, like the, like the old M.G.C. on this, this, uh, chain game. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And so guys, they hopped through the chuck hole. Ain't nobody coming up in here, you know what I'm saying? Anybody put it on, I'm raping them, you know what I'm saying? So, uh, so the guard said, what say you gonna go, I said, listen, man, you put me in, let's say you gonna put me in, you know what I'm saying? There ain't no fugitive, man, on the run, whatever you gonna, so he said, we're gonna see. So guys, they said, oh, it's the chairman. So everybody, man, come on, come on, come on this side, come on this side. Swing them down and say, another brother down the way. Hey, man, we are, so everybody like, chairman, man, hey, man, when you gonna shut the joint down, man? You know how you get out? I said, hold on, be cool, be cool. So guys send me kites, let us. Don't talk to this guy. This guy is a stool pigeon. This guy, so I finally came to those, and listen, man, I can't see nobody. This might be the ward. I don't know who this is behind the door. Give me a minute. We're gonna go fishing, but let me see what I'm working with, guppies, sharks, piranhas. Give me a minute. We're gonna go fishing. Let me assess what we dealing with. Man, we end up in a hunger strike, man. I had struggled with Jackie Wilson because the thing was three days. He went on so long. He was, I said, I said, sit where is he, man? Tim, come up off the hunger strike. He said, chairman, he said, he don't want to come up because he ain't never been involved with nothing like this. He said, man, I see, it's still showing this unity. The structure. And man, they had us in the situation one time. They rounded us all up and they called a bull pen. So we all did as well on the bull pen. So they locked you all up in there. They crewed and they get down on you. Man, you and everybody handcuffed. So somebody knew how to help ease the cuffs off, you know what I'm saying? So the guys, they coming back. And so my first time, and that's what we do. So I'm sitting there, so they show me. So the braces fall off my wrist. So I'm already on the guards coming. They like, chairman, chairman, you got to put your hands up behind your back. And they think we're still here. And I had to, and I, you know, I mean, and I was in the Sue Max. And I remember all the guys, they brought down there. Brits born. This, this, this through, they changed the thing about the, they give you a date set for your execution. They got to move on it because they would get this guy, they gave this guy a date to be executed. He would catch another case on the guard. Yeah. Yeah. He'd get a continuous. Correct. So they would make a, they had to make up a lawsuit. Listen, you get your death date. Get out. And it's my first time seeing this guy. This is the, this guy was a legend. Like guard, you say his name around guard. They had a shape. They know what you have. Bri, Bri, yeah. So I'm down in the Sue Max. I see him about this tall big glasses. I said, that's him. So these, you know what I'm saying? These, you know, I've been fortunate and I'm fortunate to have my name even listed. You know what I'm saying? With the Linda Peltier, the Mamiabu Jamals and Sunday at the Coliseum. And I was, you know, so I can't forget, you know what I'm saying? Those who, you know, says the, you know, Catherine, in fact, you know, free them all. How, how much input did y'all have in the movie? The Judas is back on the side. I got a book out. I should probably put this book out, some pictures from the set. We had a, we were the, me and my mother, me and my mother were the political and cultural consultants. Now with that, that was a lot of battle for that, too. Now you, there was attempts to do movies on Chairman Frey before. In fact, Forrest Whitaker was the one doing one before and some guys told him, say, man, that man's son on plate. So you went for Green and Grass. They did the butler, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Because in your teens count with the history of Hollywood is, they, you know what I'm saying? You, you're supposed to be happy that somebody didn't mention you. You know what I'm saying? Get your bag, it might give you a bag of popcorn. You come watch the show, that's it. And why didn't you play your father in the movie? Hmm, one, one, one, one, one of our guys come on telling us, won't you play the, won't you play the jam, you know? Right. You won't, the movie, the screen is so powerful. I remember, I remember this, I remember sitting right there, Ryan Cougla sitting right here. It's right, since he right here. Charles King, Shaka King, right here. And I remember talking about, on download, Dominique Fishback and Daniel Kaluuya right there. And I remember some of the struggles we had about the movie. I said, now you know, this is so powerful, such a powerful phenomenon. It's going to be Cass Argen saying that, they, for the first time, this got to be his daddy. Daniel Kaluuya, regardless, this is the fact that I mean, I'm older than him. But that Hollywood that's, you know, so my concern would be if I do that, am I an actor or an actor, you know what I'm saying? Or, you know, a freedom fighter, you know what I'm saying? Right. So you'll be really, because that, because people, it's a whole polity to Hollywood, you know what I'm saying? People will quote that, as opposed to quote anything, or they'll see that, you put on a movie, the news said, the movie said it. Just like it, and the rappers, when they say things, and they'll take that in. They'll take that so you'll be real, okay, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I get what you're saying. Some of you, the first time seeing me, being an actor, they're like, oh yeah, you know, I'm not here for real, the police didn't get down, they beat me for real, and shoot me. Yeah. He's like, oh, yeah, that's great. That's a great performance, isn't it? He's going to ask the door. No, this ain't really real. This isn't real. To be able to distinguish that, you know, that's one thing. And to be, man, we called it, man, we got the word, we said, man, hold on, we got to meet these people, to my plan, Chamber of Friends, Deborah Johnson, in particular. Yeah, yeah. We had eight hour meetings right here, to sit down, 10 struggles. Wow. We literally said, man, Google the worst neighborhood in Chicago. They don't say Google it, man. 11 people just got murdered on Madison and Kiva. So let's go. People say, man, you can't do that. The studio, I'm going to go, man, you can look at Dominique Fishback, man. Child's Kingdom, we'll be right there, three in the morning. And he's, man, the respect, the study, you know, I'll be like, oh, man, how are you going to play Chamber of Friends? And he's from, you know, he's not from the States and blah, blah. To this day, the ongoing respect in relation to what we still have, you know what I'm saying? And we had a lot of struggles, believe me. I still, it's going to be a night time. Cut. Stop. Stop. I mean, a lot of struggles. So you were there for every moment? Just close to, we want, we want the first time, first through that, we weren't even on board with it, you know what I'm saying? We, it was, it was, it was intense. Okay. We had to, we had, we, go back and Google some of the first titles they had for the movie. Yeah, Google it. I mean, we had a lot of battles. That's why it went for a long time. It was called Untitled. That's what it went for long. You go, it was an Untitled project. Because the name, because even before I started watching it, and I heard the name, I'm like, I was trying to, you know how you're trying to figure out the movie just by the name? Yeah. And I'm like, Judas the Black Messiah. I'm like, why would they go with that name? But after watching the movie, I can see. Yeah. Yeah. That was a Jesus name. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they, man, we were fortunate we have a dream team before sometime. It was even, even when our battles, you know what I'm saying? There were times when create, create, creativity, clash of political, you know what I'm saying? Certain things you can't, like I was. But the only thing I was thinking of, the only thing I was looking for in the movie, because of the name, I was looking for Bill O'Neill to actually kill himself like Judas did. Well, they, they, they, um... Like hang himself or something. You know, like, because that's what Judas did. When they applied it in, they said he killed himself. We just, we struggled with that. That's something that we wanted to talk about, too. I just thought about that's a good subject because this thing, when he came into play and just the way that he was doing everything that he was doing, when he, afterwards there was some things on TV where it showed him come in on different things about chairman. What do you, how do you feel about this guy and everything that, you know, of course, we know he wasn't right for what he done, but how do you feel about him when you see the, because there's just really, there's really just a, it's a foggy place when you think about what really happened to him. Because, you know, you don't know if he did kill himself. Did somebody kill him? You know, what was the deal? And I need to add another section to that question. Because looking at the comments after the film, it said that he even remained in the Black Panther Party after Tim and Fred was assassinated and stuff like that. How come nobody knew that he was the one? I tell him, you know, like, now, that's because he's playing Monday morning, quarter back. They be like, oh, I knew this, I knew that, you know what I'm saying? And you had, like, engage in the struggle, you know, when it's going down. And also we won, we, our position that we took, even when the movie was hashtag, William O'Neill was not the only one. See, you, this, this, I mean, the coin tale pro, and also, like, I, I know, it was eerie. A lot of times with the film, it was, it was core, like, the film, you know what I'm saying? It was stuff we was going through exactly. I'm talking about, like, literally. Agent Mavaka tours, infiltration. It was to the point, I was like, whoa, this is, like, this is man. I'm talking, it was some scenes that was in the movie that we were going through some of the same dynamics. And I remember I asked one of the comrades in the Panther part, I said, give me the atmosphere like that, you know, with O'Neill's around. And it was, I remember, I recall one time, we was heavily, one of the times we heavily infiltrated, because we've been, and you can Google all the, man, they just said to me, that's every man, pants, skirts, red, blue, tall, short. You can never know who. And a lot of cast, cast don't even, this don't get on, you know what I'm saying? They have a psychological profile, and they, and they, and I like to be liberal, like, it just don't be the individual, like a, like a disease that, the dynamics, you say, hold on, man, okay, your kidneys are weak. This also makes it bad, you know what I'm saying? It's not just a disease. So that's the informers in here. So you got forces who are already liberal, they're already wishy-washy anyway, they go whichever way, the wind blows, that's the problem, you know what I'm saying? So, and then also stuff that may be dormant and other people, they tap into it and they heighten it. So, but chairman, chairman, through, chairman relates to democratic centralism, the structural party. He, that's why, if you look at the movie, we made it very clear. He was never chairman for your security. That's the incorrect narrative that was trying to be pushed out about bogus, unauthorized books and everything that people were saying. He was never chairman for your security. And I, and see that people, and I hope you don't understand. So what part did he play? In the, in the party? Yes, in the party. He was, he was, he was, he played, so he was on security detail. Okay, but he- On the defense cadre, but he was never, and see that, that's, that's, that's why I was pointing back to the structure dynamics. You go back and say, oh, like it's a coalition of forces, I work with in Chicago. And different groups I work with. And they had this, the city, the state had this thing called the turning your gun program. We weren't with it. But I couldn't struggle with people's emotions because we were like, man, the violence is so bad, we need to do something, turning the guns in. Other castles were with it. That's their thing. Then it came down. They said, wait a minute, chairman. You never did support that. I said, yeah. But I couldn't, you know what I'm saying? But the structure was able to distinguish that wasn't a party, that wasn't an opposition. Because we relate to a minister UEP News said, and people were subject to slavery in a given time. But so you got, so a certain coalition, you can work with certain people in an organization, structure, checks and balances. That's why like when the police do something, they're making the point of duty police. You know what I'm saying? You know, they make, they distinguish that, you know, this is a traffic cop. You know, our people don't even think we were worthy of a structure. Like you can look at a movie like Blue Bloods or Tom Selleck, you know what I'm saying? And they do a certain dynamic that it does not even negate. Like you can have a man wanting police together. And you, your thought in your mind never comes up about, oh, they must be in relationship with each other. You follow what I'm saying? Our people came and see us, you know what I'm saying? No dynamical structure. You know what I'm saying? It's not, it don't even come up about Tom Selleck's sexuality. You know what I'm saying? Because the deal is the agenda. So you have an organization, it shouldn't even come up, I'll tell you in security detail. A person shouldn't even leave here trying to know if you a Capricorn or Virgo. You follow what I'm saying? This, you have a job to do. You know what I'm saying? So people, I need to go on moves and speak places where I'm going to sign my security to people who I don't even like personally. Our organization, it's an individual that they didn't put around me who, if we was free, I won't even know them. You follow what I'm saying? And that's how we had to look at structure, look at struggle. You know what I'm saying? So Chairman Fred, they made it very clear, you know what I'm saying? That there was not a security. And there was an incorrect narrative to put that out. But the movie you can look at and see with, oh, no, can I get to me? Look at old footage of Chairman Fred. You don't see, dude? You don't see, you don't see, you don't see, you don't see, you know what I'm saying? But there was a, and that's what, it opened the door for a lot of the white left revisions to come through. Oh yeah, you know, because they gotta find a flaw in it. Well, man, he didn't know he trusted this guy. No, and it can't steal this. It's structure, even if it's, you had certain people with a role that you don't even dig personally, you know what I'm saying? And certain decisions that you say, that's what I want, but if you outvoted, you respect that. But there was a structure in the party. But again, you go back and look through the actual footage. That's all I even do in the propaganda. We fall for certain things like, no pictures of just him and Chairman Fred together. You know what I'm saying? That's the narrative that a lot of people want to put out, you know what I'm saying? There was buddies and blah, blah. Other communities can actually see an organization, a structure. Like even, and this, I was against the fictional character, Judy Palmer. How many, I was against that, you know what I'm saying? Because that character being in there, because of some other dynamics of other organizations that they had, we had to change. You know what I'm saying? No, it wouldn't be right. I'm glad she stayed in there. You know what I'm saying? And Nodger, the sisters and others, they know it's the Charles King, they're like, no, we got to, we had some good struggles right at this table. That served a purpose. I wish this table could tell stories. Oh man, ooh, man, man, man, man, man. And the struggles, it showed, I seen it, like with Chairman, you know, we relate to our present day comrades, the Cubs, y'all make Comrade Coo earlier. For people to see an organization, or people work together, you know what I'm saying? That, or the common agenda, you know what I'm saying? Not just always subject, or who is that, you know what I'm saying? We go into this trivial, this person with this person, so on and so forth. Start looking at our struggles scientifically, you know what I'm saying? And that's hard for a lot of people to relate to. But there was a lot of, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, like even the term, like O'Neill, like even Chairman, you go back to Chairman Reference, it was O'Neill, like first it was A Fred, A Bill. We had the struggle for that. Chairman, you know what I'm saying? This is, you know what I'm saying? Minister of Health, this puts stuff in official capacity. Checks, you know what I'm saying? You come in, when a state entity comes in, they have a roll call. Hello, sir. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is the president. It's not, hey man, you my homie, me, you cool? That's how we had to start looking at. That's what I like about organizing. That's what we have to have. It's very organized. Organized and structured. Checks and balances. It's something bigger than you. That scene when they walked up, the crowns. You, your, it showed a phenomenon. It showed out. Not only these young cats, they never seen an organized group. They see cats going on stage, do what you want to do, drink what you want to drink. You see a girl, you're like, come on, just go get her. They ain't never seen no temptations. You know what I'm saying? Move, man. You move, you structure. Checks and balances. Ghetto boys, you know what I'm saying? Even though the struggles within the ghetto boys, you know what I'm saying? It was a structure, checks and balances. People, you people need to have, to see that, to say, man, listen, man, this family union, how do I feel about cousins such and such? You know what I'm saying? The Jones and Smith, they, that's, that impacts how they see us. It's a family. You know what I'm saying? The Black Panther Party. They went in terms of struggles and contradiction. You know, it was a, it was a structure. Checking their central committee. Phil Marshall. Phil Marshall, George Jackson. Minutes, UEP doing, it was a structure. You know what I'm saying? It was, that checks and balances. You reckon that it's something that's bigger than you? Man. Is the free clinic that Chairman Fred came up with? Is that still around? The Free Medical Center. You're right. That, there was, there was an, it was an, it might be, Kennedy International, in fact, in Vietnam, we still talk about deputy minister of health, Doc. Doc Satu was, that's my Godfather. He lost him about seven years ago. Chairman Fred would say, if you're sick, don't go down on the cook, don't, there's one of the speeches he made, July 69 or 68, I forget. Chairman Fred would say, don't go down to Cook County hospital. You go in there with a common cold, you come up dead, just what happens. Somebody else did your sex organs, your brain tissue. Come on now so you don't have to feel good. Doc Satu heard Chairman Fred speak on the college campus. He left college, he left that date. Signed him to the Black Panther Party, man. He, this, this care was phenomenal, man. So what happened to it? The, the medical, the medical center. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of the programs. You know what I'm saying? The state either came in and outfunded, you know, co-authored and took it in, you know what I'm saying? Took certain characteristics of it, you know what I'm saying? Watered it down. But the spirit of the party still lives on, but a lot of the programs. Okay. You know what I'm saying? That that subsided, you know what I'm saying? So with the Black Panther Party, because we, we, we, we in the process, it's a tough act to follow, but we in the process of trying to, you know, trying to bring it up. Hold it, you know, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. We have the Fremont radio, we have the triple C program. We work on a lot of different programs. Okay. Man, I want to say thank you for letting us come in and interview you here today. Y'all see, we'll be, we'll be here all day, so thank y'all. Yeah, no. We had something we wanted to present to you. We, we don't come in up to handy. We know that, that you know at some point, you know, we got to make sure that we bless and give roses while, while you're here. I'm going to let you open it because she always do that part. But yeah, we had to bring something to show. I, I appreciate it. For what you guys contribute to our culture. Well, we appreciate it. Appreciate y'all. We want to send this out there, and it's all due right now. Man, boss talk 101. We, we're here. In the building. It came to Chicago. Don't come to Dallas. I'm coming to Dallas. So, we here at Boss Talk 101 would love to present you, your family with the, with this plaque. And it says presented to chairman, Fred Hampton, Jr. In recognition for the sacrifices your family has made for our people and community. President and chairman of the POC and the Black Panther Cubs 2022. I respect. Revolutionary appreciation. Thank you, sister. Thank you, brother. Thank Boss Talk 101, man. Right on honor. I'm honored. We are talking honor to y'all here. I look forward to touching down in Dallas, man. Man, yeah, right on. Again, this is the spirit of making history, taking history, and taping history, y'all. Let's remain and be vigilant and innovative, you know what I'm saying? Because many of you, people don't say, a lot of people don't read as much as we would like for them to read. So, we got to get this out through the social media, Gravevine, you name it. Again, I'm honored. Man. But thank you so much, man. Hey, man. Check it, man. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. Well, the Boss is talking. Hey, man, we love you, man. Hey, love y'all, Ray Black. We love you. I like that. Yeah, man. Thank you. Yes, indeed. All right, we out.