 So nine one seven don't you run. Yes. Yes. Hi It's Andrew. Hey Andrew. I Should buy hard by now I Want to be one of the name people but I don't know how to do it. I always record my name, but somehow it's a number I Wanted to ask you about the Allegation that objectivists are an occult It came up again this week It's obviously been around as long as I ran and she was accused of it many times and just that accusation is Common I get the objective of this And this last week Matt Ridley unfortunately Yeah, I'm gonna have to sit down with Matt Ridley and talk to him about that. That's ridiculous. Yep Yeah, I wanted to ask you your perspective on it because the way I see it is this that there's three different ways. It's made one is Dishonest because I think that Inland's and objectivism's intellectual consistency haunts people who You know need to find a way out of taking the philosophy seriously and so they launch Unfair accusation. I just see that as dishonest Secondly, I would the second way I would say it's made is Dishonest I Would say there's two categories of dishonesty one is maliciously and one is non maliciously like what Matt Ridley did I didn't see as malicious But I do think it's dishonest personally because I think he should know better and but Yeah, I mean through his exposure to you and just his general knowledge. Yep, absolutely It's unfair But then there's some people who make it very maliciously obviously And they're being dishonest and then there I think that somebody could make the allegation honestly just because they see That it you know, the philosophy is different And it's small and it's fervent and it has somebody at the head of the You know philosophy who we all revere Tremendously and these are all characteristics that a person could probably honestly confuse with kind of a cultish Mentality so I wanted to ask you. What do you think is the proper? Response and way to counter when that allegation comes up both in kind of a dishonest Ending honest context like how would you respond and how would your response change? Well, I mean I I think I think your differentiation is right I and I think that part of the part of the issue is people and this leads them to this dishonesty, which is The more the not malicious one the more And they're not used to people holding principles and being assertive about the principles And sticking to those principles consistently and they associate that with either religion or cult And if they can't pin it on religion then they pin it on they You know, they they they pin it on a cult And I mean my guess is that what Matt Ridley thinks of it, although I I don't think Matt actually thought of it Otherwise, I'm not sure you would have said it um but You know, I think the way to combat it is to ask them what they think a cult is and and and a cult is they would all say mindless followers of dogma By a particular in and I think inherent in objectivism is the answer to that it's it's you know, if it's mindless it's not part of objectivism if it's if it's Following the group and following commands of a leader following the the commands of the collective then it's not objectivism The anti cult is built into objectivism is objectivism Now people might treat objectivism as a cult and I certainly know object people call themselves objectivists Who behave like cult members? But I think it's important to note that as a philosophy and its principles While it holds certain things as true The whole methodology of it is anti cult the whole methodology of it is Uh, it's about inquiry into what is true and what is not not about is what did I invent saying what she did not? so uh Yeah, I mean there's no basis for it. It's complete nonsense The only basis for it is That some people They call themselves objectivist behaviors if it's a cult and that's right Can you expand on that a little in the sense that there might be some? particularly younger objectivists who Don't know they're behaving or giving off a certain vibe of you know being How does somebody not? The vibe of a cult is is is unthinking. It's dogma. It's quotations. It's uh constantly quoting rather than using your own language. It's uh You know as soon as somebody disagrees with you shutting them down because you can't really argue because you don't really know the point Because all you can do is shout back a quotation from mind ran. Yeah um It's things like that and and there are various levels of it um that uh that You know people express, but it's generally an Unconnected defense of iron ran no matter what detached from any kind of reality or any kind of knowledge And that comes across as cultish. Uh, I I think You know, I think everybody dressing the same although I don't see that among objectivists I think everybody chanting the same thing. I think anybody anything that subverts Where people could say that individualism comes across as cultish and and uh, you should be yourself You should use your own language. You should try to explain You should use you should refer to iron ran when relevant, but don't use it as a crutch Um be willing to make mistakes be willing to concede that you make mistakes Uh, so those are the kind of things that you need to do in order to just live In a way that that does not promote this notion of it being a cult Thanks, Andrew What we need today what I called a new intellectual would be any man or woman who is willing to think Meaning any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason By the intellect not by feelings wishes women's or mystic revelations Any man or woman who values his life? And who does not want to give in to today's cult of the stare cynicism and impotence and does not intend to give up the world To the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist No All right before we go on reminder, please like the show. We've got 163 live listeners right now 30 likes That should be at least 100. I figure at least 100 of you actually like the show Maybe they're like 60 of the matthews out there who hate it But but at least the people who like it, you know, I want to see I want to see a thumbs up There you go start liking it. I want to see that go to 100 All it takes is a click of a click of a thing whether you're looking at this And and you know the likes matter. It's not an issue of my ego It's an issue of the algorithm the more you like something the more the algorithm likes it So, you know, and if you don't like the show give it a thumbs down Let's see your actual views being reflected in the likes But if you like it, don't just sit there Help get the show promoted. Of course, you should also share And you can support the show At your own book show Dot com slash support on patreon or subscribe star or locals And and show your support for all for for the work for the value. Hopefully you're receiving firmness And and of course, don't forget if you're not a subscriber Even if you even if you just come here to troll or even if you're here like matthew to defend marx Uh, then uh, you should subscribe because that way you'll know when to show up You'll know what shows are on when they're on you'll get notified, right? So, uh, yes like share subscribe support like share subscribe support. There you go easy Do one or all of those please