 Live from San Francisco, California, extracting the signal from the noise, it's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 2015, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media, with special thanks to Docker. Now your hosts, John Furrier and Jeff Frick. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in San Francisco for DockerCon 2015. This is SiliconANGLE's theCUBE, our flagship program, where we go out to the events and extract the civil noise. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE, Joe Mike Coase, Jeff Frick. Here our next guest is Mariana Tessel, VP of Engineering at Docker, formerly of VMware. Great to see you, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you, well, thank you, about to be here. So VP of Engineering at a company that does all its engineering in the open is a challenge I can only imagine, like herding the cats, as they say. But Docker, obviously super exciting technology, opening up, being decomposed with some announcements here, plumbing, all this container stuff, is the rage. Tell us how you got there. I mean, was it something you saw early on and how did you get to Docker? And what made you go, wow, this is really worth, you know, being part of this company? Right, so, you know, I did see Docker a bit early on in Portuguese because I was at VMware and as you're talking to customers and seeing what customers do, the Docker names especially came up again and again as a technology they explore, they think about, they look at, so I was like, oh, that's an interesting name. I remember that and when I was ready to go back into a bit of a startup, Docker was actually an obvious choice, I want to say. Customer driven, you saw the feedback on the customer? I could see the pool, you could see the pool like you totally, again, being in the community you hear, like sometimes you hear a name again and again and again from ecosystem, from customers, so you could understand something is there. Jerry Chen was kind of sniffing around. Was he invested at that point? Or was he already invested or not? Yeah, he was already. So he already put his first money in. He was already an investor at Docker. And we know, we talked to Jerry before he did the investment and we can see where the dots were connecting. Certainly a good call. As VP of engineering, what's it like there? Because normally in a big company or startup, build the product, ship it, ship it, ship it, but now it's very collaborative. Open source is now the new normal. People use open source, it's very collaborative. This community is very balanced. A lot of self-governing going on. Certainly people still complain, of course. But there's a community aspect. So how do you run engineering at Docker when you have a lot of people that don't work for Docker? Right. You still shift the code? I mean, how's that all working from your standpoint? Yeah, first of all, honestly running engineering at Docker is absolutely amazing. Because, you know, it's a forefront of technology, pushing the envelope, all of these great things, fast moving, all the great things that the engineering leader, you look for. But you know, specifically at your question on kind of this open source and community, we do have a vast, vast community. In fact, we have more people outside of Docker contributing to Docker than people inside the company. So it's quite amazing. It does bring with it some great things and also some challenges. So as you can imagine, but it's really this kind of energy you get from the community and the contributors and all that is amazing. Just to give like one example, we have launched this project called Katmatic that's designed for users to very easily, UI driven, get started with Docker. And you know, we had in our roadmap this plan to do Windows next. And shortly after launch, Katmatic, we woke up, whoa, the community had contributed. Somebody pretty much got us all the way there and it just took a little work to get it done. So. It's like a genie with the three wishes. You rub the bottle and magic comes out of the community. In this case, the Windows version, right? Right, right. Sometimes you don't have to even rub the bottle. It's because they're like ahead of you to think about the next thing before you even thought about it. Then you've got to think about apps versus the platform and the connector. So it's really an interesting community that you've got to support, choose which pieces you're going to build. And then also how you're going to create this great foundation for other people to more easily contribute. So how do you, it must just be a constant kind of balancing act. And as you just stated in that example, reshuffling of where you think that your priorities are. Yeah, yeah. So it's like I said, could be also a challenge. Not, it happens sometimes where somebody gets frustrated because they, we didn't get merged there. We are. And on the other hand, we look at it and say, oh, you just like gave us this, this actually pretty big piece of code. And it's pretty fundamental. And we want to have this dialogue first. And even internally between teams when we want to, you know, do something that has to do with the engine and let's say get code that impact that. We sometimes run across that as well because you're like, oh, we have this new thing and we want the engine to use it. And, you know, they're like, whoa, you know, it's big. We need to know ahead of time. Let's kind of, we should have talked, we should have planned, not like necessarily best practice. So, you know, even internally, we see that as different teams try to contribute to each other. But definitely externally, sometimes, you know, we get a PR, we get surprised, good surprise, but something's like, well, it's too big, you know, we need to work together on this. So it does, it does happen. So Solomon talked about the APIs and we had other customers on talking about, obviously the success they've had over the years and also the scar tissue from experimentation and kind of brute force. So as a monolithic code base, the natural thing would be to create more decomposed elements, kind of the Lego blocks as Solomon says. Right, right. What's your priority on that as an engineering manager? You guys sit in a room and say, okay, we want to make it as modular as possible. And what are those priorities? Can you share the engineering priorities relative to the making it less friction, less more frictionless, if you will, to. Yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned the APIs because, you know, it is one way that we allow people to contribute, not necessarily even in an open source, not necessarily for open source companies, but they just say, hey, we have a module or something that we want to connect to Docker, allow us a way to do that. Then this whole plugin API system is there that you can easily plug into that. And like you mentioned, this component plumbing is also there. So you can contribute to that easily and you can build around it. So that's kind of the ideas. And now I'm blanking on your question. Oh, the decomposition around the modularity of the monolithic and the top priorities. Yes, yes. So it is absolutely a priority for us. As you could see, we went forward with RunC, which is a big step for us. And Notary, as another thing that announced. Is RunC the plugin or the host compatibility? RunC is this plumbing component. Okay, got it, okay. That you can build around and Notary is another, the security plumbing component that you can build around. But this whole idea, this whole plugability, there's a couple of things, right? Plugability and APIs. And you don't want to, breaking down to the plumbing components is a huge priority for us. And we're absolutely pushing this forward. And our ecosystem and other contributors help as well because they're interested in that as well. It's a nice balance in the ecosystem. So I got to ask you the question. So we reported earlier the top three big things from Dockergon, the open container standard, cross-host networking, and the Docker plugins. Of those three, what's your favorite? Oh, wow. You're really like, you know. It's like they're your favorite child. You can. I know. They're all like favorite, you know. I'm just gonna, let me kind of say, maybe from the engineering standpoint, I would say maybe the networking one, the multi-host, just because it's just. It's meaty. It's meaty and it's really meaty for users. It's real. It's really expand the use case of Docker. And, you know, we just got so much ask from users to provide something like that. And it's kind of neat that it comes out with the APIs and already working with companies around us to provide the plugins. So, yeah, I mean, I just think it's real world. I mean, the others are cool, too. I mean, how can I compete? Yeah, well, it's just more standards. It's more business policy. The foundation is like this big, yeah, love, you know. It's important, yeah. It's all good. I call the wood stock of 10. Yes, yes. It was free love and not a lot of Kool-Aid, I think Kool-Aid. It quotes, not really Kool-Aid, if you do what I'm saying. Oh, that's important, too. That's important, too, right? Having a standard, you know. The standards are critical, because you got to go fast. So that brings up my next question. If you look at the numbers, Amazon is posting big numbers. The cloud game has decided it's happening. These waves are coming. It's inevitable. And the companies that are on cloud are going to win the ones that aren't. They're going to lose faster than the ones that are winning. So I got to ask you, architecturally from an engineering standpoint, what do you see as the most fundamental architectural change in cloud that's happening now that's going to create this beginning revolution of real cloud computing? Is it the infrastructure? Is it the DevOps layer? What's your thoughts? It's kind of as an industry participant. What's the big architectural shift that's happening right now in the industry? Yeah, I mean, everybody are talking about microservices, and theoretically, if you do it right, they're going to have a couple of attributes. One is that you could put them in different places. So you no longer can need to think about your app as runs in a particular place, and that's just one place. And that kind of ability to break it down to components that maybe one of them runs here, another one runs there is interesting. Another attribute is the portability. And the idea of like, I've started from a workload in my laptop, then I want to test it in the cloud. I actually want to host it in production. All of that just allows the new creation of apps and the fluidity between those different formats like the hybrid, the true hybrid cloud vision. So I think that's probably what accelerates a lot of it. What about the legacy network stuff? I mean, just kind of brainstorming here with you is that I look at the market like the Cisco's of the world, the Aristos, they're all networking guys. SDN has a lot of promise in this years now at VMware. That just stuff seems to be, it needs to go away in the mind of the developer, right? That's the goal of DevOps is to make programmable infrastructure. So how does that happen as we move forward in the Docker revolution? How does that, from a developer standpoint, just take care of itself, kind of stay under the hood if you will. Right, right. So from a developer point of view, they don't want to bother it with like provisioning, get work and understand this whole thing work. And you know, if we do it right with SDN and some of the things we've shown today with SWARM and multi-host networking, then you could very simply then start saying, you know, simple commands that allow you to deploy in a multi-host environment without really trying to think about how to do the network. I mean, yes, there's still the details of building the actual hardware and where it all connected. But from a developer point of view, it's kind of- Once it's built, then it's just performing. It's there and making very easy using very basic construct that are available there in Linux to make it very easy for developers to use. Mariana Tessel from VP of Marketing here at Docker. Final question for you as- Engineering, VP of Engineering. What'd I say, marketing? Marketing, no. Oh my God, I can't believe I just said that. VP of Engineering, get late in the day, day two, wall-to-wall coverage. You should be in marketing, you're really good on the queue. First of all, engineering is marketing. Marketing goes away in DevOps. It's just abstract. Yeah, it's all the same. It's portable from engineering to marketing. And the marketing fluff doesn't fly. I mean, it's frictionless communication of connected communities, very efficient protocol. VP of Engineering at Docker, I got to ask you the culture question. What's it like at Docker? People want, they have this image that, man, it's magical castle of greatness at Docker. What's going on at Docker? What's the culture like? Solomon's a great guy. Everyone seems to be happy, smiling all the time, springing their step. Is it like that inside, or people working away, having fun, whistling while they work? What's it like inside Docker? Yeah, we come here every day, and flowers are blooming, and it's just like a new thing. Like in a promotion every day, salaries are being doubled, valuates are the billion dollars. Yeah, it's amazing, but, I mean, seriously. We do have skeletons, we do have, it's not all like singing every day, but it's like, but it is quite amazing. I think in a few ways, in my point of view, one is, I think it's very rare to work in a technology that is so fundamental and so revolutionary, kind of breaks and change how the industry does things. It's just, I'm from here. You're an A player, it must be fun, because it is, I mean, it's stressful. Obviously, you've got a startup, right? And how many employees you have now? About 100. And engineering? In engineering, we have about, what is that, about 70, yeah. Still a big team, but not massive, still kind of small startup. Some startups are not easy, right? Yeah, yeah. But it seems like it's fun, there's a lot of technology. There's a lot of fun. I mean, I also want to say that we have quite an international team, and it's just kind of the mix, and different people come from different places, but also from different companies that we have people came from consumer, from enterprise, and it kind of creates this very interesting, different points of view, open source, you know, we have SaaS products, on-prem products, open source products, so kind of this whole mix of a lot of things going on. It's a melting pot of diverse expertise. Yeah, very, very awesome. A lot of creativity, you talk to somebody and they'll have a consumer background, and it just feels, It must be very interesting conversations. Very interesting. The debates must be very heated. Cultural and diverse. No, actually, you know, we were, there are debates, but they're not heated. It's, yeah, pretty awesome. Thank you so much. VP of Engineering at Docker. Thank you so much for coming on the queue. Appreciate it. Okay, we're here live, coverage, the peak inside the machinery that is Docker in California, your diverse team, a very successful startup. Thanks so much for your time. We'll be right back with more for this short break.