 Hey there and welcome to the nonprofit show. We are thrilled to have you today and thrilled to have our guest, Carol Hamilton of Grace Social Sector Consulting. Carol is here to talk to about getting the right people to the table when it talks about, when we talk about strategic planning essentials and Carol has some great insight to share with us. Before we jump into conversation, we want to remind our viewers and our listeners, these amazing sponsors that have allowed us these conversations, so thank you to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, 180 Management Group, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. Thank you again to these companies. If you missed any of our previous episodes, here's where you can find them. You can scan the QR code, you can also still find us on broadcast and podcast channels. So if we can advance the slides, Julia, and get us over to Carol. Carol Hamilton, thrilled to have you with Grace Social Sector Consulting. I also want to give a shout out to Elizabeth Wolfe because she referred us to you to bring your insight, your wisdom to the conversation. So Carol, would you tell us a little bit about you as well as your consulting? We'd love to learn more. Yeah, well first, thank you so much for having me on. It's great to, I mean, looking forward to our conversation. Yeah, so I've been in the nonprofit sector for most of my career, 30 plus years, and just over the years have moved closer and closer to digging into why people do the things that they do in groups and in organizations and how can we all work more effectively together? And kind of coupling that with looking at my Clifton strengths, most of them are in that strategy column. So that led me to doing strategic planning work with nonprofits and associations and evaluation of work as well. So very excited to be here. And yeah, and also really looking to more and more integrate an equity lens into all of that work that hasn't necessarily been there in the past. Well, no, and I think that's a great place to start because we were talking about this briefly in the green room chatter. And that is, is that, you know, we struggle with boards embracing diversity just to start out with. And then so many of our nonprofits derive their strategic planning through the board. So we're like starting off in a less than ideal space. And so I gotta ask this question, given that is that oftentimes the landscape, how do we even think about this, right? How can we be inclusive? Well, I think the first thing is to really let go of that traditional notion that the strategy of the organization is solely owned by the board. It's not, it is part of the board's role. The board is integral into all of those conversations, but it's not exclusively their job. And so for me, when I'm working with organizations, I'm looking to bring, you know, at minimum staff and board together. And then, you know, through processes of gathering information, doing listening tours, really listening to all the stakeholders of the organization that care about the future of how we're gonna move the work together forward. And people talk a lot about buy-in and the way that you create buy-in is not by telling people what you want them to do, but to include them in the decision-making about that. And so I think that's the first place to start. I love it. Carol, I wanna ask you, and I love that you mentioned, board, staff, you know, listening tours. What are some of the elements when we think of inclusivity within our strategic plans? This is a service line that I facilitate to and I will own up. Like, sometimes it seems so laborious, right? It's like, there's so many people that we could elicit information from. So like, what are some of the key elements when you are driving inclusivity? What does that look like for your clients? Well, I mean, working with them to really identify who are the key stakeholders that need to be part of the process. And then also being clear with each group of stakeholders, you know, what is going to be their role? Oftentimes groups will work with a small committee and people think that it's the strategic planning task force job to, you know, set our direction. No, for me at least when I'm working with a group, I work with them to kind of steward the process and be my kind of the inside where I'm the outside of the organization to help to really, you know, make some key decisions along the way, but it's key decisions about the process versus these are our big goals that are gonna be at the, you know, what we come out of with the plan. So I think people are afraid of pulling a lot of people in because they think there's just gonna be so much static and so many opinions. But my experience has actually been that when push comes to shove, you actually find that there's more agreement around what are the big issues than people actually realize. There may be some differentiation on the nuance of those, but kind of the big like, these are the things we need to work on. I tend to find that there's a lot of alignment once we've talked to everybody. And then people are like, oh, those folks are thinking that too. Great, now we can get the conversation get it out in the room, get it on the table and deal with it. Let me ask you this Carol. How often do you find that you kind of have to back the bus up and kind of start from a point of education and getting everybody on board as to what a strategic plan is and how it's even used? Because it seems to me like when you're bringing in and sadly they shouldn't be new voices, but when you're bringing in different people, they may not know what the process is. So how do you even get to that point? Yeah, that's a great question. I think all along the way, first in even, are we gonna work together? Is this gonna be a good fit? Does my approach align with your organizational culture in those beginning conversations? And then asking people what experiences they've had with strategic planning or what they think strategic planning is and then sharing, okay, and whether they had a positive experience or a less than positive experience and then sharing how my approach might differ a little bit and what those points are. So for example, I've been working with a client recently where clearly in the past, that strategic planning task force was tasked with not only stewarding the process, they were really in charge of the ultimate plan. And so people were very anxious about who was gonna be on that task force because they felt like that was the only way that their voice was gonna be heard. And so we had to have lots of conversations about what is the role of that group in this process and how it differs from what they might have experienced in the past. And so having kickoff meetings to kind of orient everyone to the process, making sure that that goes out in a variety of different ways. It could be a live event. It could be then a follow-up memo that then describes this is how we're doing things. And then I also oftentimes will do, taking from watching TV like previously on this strategic planning process, we did these things, we're gonna do this today and that's what's coming up. So always trying to reorient people on where we are in the process so that because they're not thinking, I'm the consultant, this is my job, I'm thinking about it a lot. The people on the task force are thinking about it a lot. The executive director is thinking about it a lot. But a lot of other staff, they have a lot of other things going on, board members, everybody has life. And so what are we doing today? What's our purpose? What's our goal? So kind of trying to bring people back into that. And again, always trying to bring more alignment into the system. What about the pitfalls, right? Like talk to us about some of the common mistakes that you see within strategic planning and even some of the mistakes that you have helped, turn the ship around for the clients and the nonprofits that you've worked with, Carol. What does that look like? Sure. So I think the first one is really actually trying to have the group who's making the plan be too small and out of a fear of kind of, or wanting to have that control of what the outcome is. So I think that would be the first one. And so then people are like, well, why is my plan sitting on the shelf? Well, because we're not a bot in. One of you mentioned the tones that end up sitting on a shelf. Well, the second would be not, don't have it be a tone. Three to five goals at the most, action steps that are gonna get you there. And one of the success indicators that to help people have shared understanding. So keeping it simple, one to two pages of the plan and then using other documents to get into the more of the nitty gritty. I think that's the part, the failing to operationalize that can really get into, it's just too big picture and people don't see how it connects to their particular job. So using other processes on a shorter timeframe, next six months, this person, you figure out who's gonna do what by when or next year. And then having a way to keep that updated in terms of that implementation plan. And then I think either, sometimes you'll have an event, you'll have a strategic planning retreat and people think it's just a retreat where really you need to have done all that upfront work around gathering information to have a shared understanding of, okay, here's the kind of snapshot in time of our organization and then what do we do, what meaning do we make of that and how do we envision our future? But oftentimes you'll end up without having really made any done any discernment or made any decisions about what's most important. And so you end up with this long list of good ideas and that's not a strategic plan. Pages and pages of pages of flip charts with ideas that haven't been sorted and haven't been discerned. That's one step of the process and it's an important step, but it's not the final step. So I think those are a few of them. Is there anyone else? Oh, go ahead, Julia. I'll go next. Okay, let me ask about this because I know, I'm kind of sat in on so many of these things and worked through this process. And I can count on only a few fingers on one hand, the number of times that the outside consultant would be invited to come back in and kind of reframe or refresh or reengage. And so I'm wondering, and this is probably for both of you because Jared, I know this is in your wheelhouse. How do you channel the good intentions and the excitement in the work six months down the road? Like what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, certainly in my experience, it's not often something that organizations invest in. And I think that it could be really useful to have, once the process is done, the plan has been approved, you've approved how you're gonna move that into more of an operationalizing role, how you're gonna keep that up to date to actually have checkpoints with the consultants, help them facilitate, especially the first one or two conversations around. So, okay, we've done this, we haven't done that. This doesn't seem as relevant as it was. We need to change some language to help people experience that process of keeping the plan fresh and relevant. Yeah, yeah. And I would add to that, the majority of my clients, Julia, we do an annual strategic plan. And so it is a quarterly meeting. And so that keeps them going, it keeps them accountable, it keeps everyone kind of rowing in the same direction. Carol, my question was going to be around inclusivity when it comes to time-bound restraints. And I hope I'm not alone in this, Carol, but I get requests that people will say, can you please facilitate our retreat in the next couple of weeks? Now, the pre-work for that, right? It's like, no. But I don't think that a couple of weeks or even a couple of months maybe, I'm not sure, how that would address your inclusivity strategy because that doesn't sound like it's enough time to really have those listening tours. I'm really curious if you can talk to us about that as a common mistake. That's a great question. Yeah, so I think thinking that a strategic planning process is the retreat is a common mistake. So really being able to gather that information and input, I'm usually working with folks and organizations around a three to five year timeframe. And so, yeah. If they say that their event is in three weeks, I say, good luck. That's not something behind. They're not setting themselves up for success. They're not setting me up for success. Likely, as the consultant, I'll get blamed for their lack of success. And so, yeah, it's not something that I'm gonna do. And again, I think it goes back to, it's not just the retreat. The retreat is central and important, but there's so many steps to help the whole group be ready for that and be ready to have the kind of conversations they need to have at that retreat. Or have multiple retreats where they do a lot of that data gathering in the room, but then you miss a lot of stakeholders who probably won't be able to be there. That's right, yeah. So on the flip side of this, what does a successful strategic plan look like? What are those elements that need to be included? What is the timeline perhaps that we need to follow? How do you manage this with the work that you do, Carol? Yeah, so for me, I think for one, a lot of people get focused on what does the plan look like, the actual plan. And that can be important, but the process that led up to that plan is just as important for it to be successful. So all of that input and conversation and looking at things from a variety of different ways, going big, then making some decisions, all of those steps as a group are part of what makes it successful. But I would say, no more than five goals, even better three, three to five that range. So you have to make some choices, you have to make some decisions. You've defined what success looks like. So with that bigger goal and those kind of, okay, what are the three to five action steps that get us closer to that, when we've moved forward and when we've made progress, what is that gonna look like? And sometimes that's metric, sometimes, X percentage of change, sometimes that's going to be, we will have completed, let's say an organization is less sophisticated around fundraising. And so one of their goals that they've identified is to bring in a consultant and have them do an audit and look at our set of recommendations. So one of those success might be, we've done that. So defining as a group and having shared understanding around what success looks like. And then as I talked about before, having a way and an agreed upon process and timeframe for whenever you're gonna evaluate the plan, when are we gonna evaluate a couple of different questions around, okay, what have we succeeded in doing? What progress have we made? But then also, what's different now? What have we done that we didn't anticipate in the plan but we wanna celebrate that win? And then what's changed and what do we need to tweak? Because we talk about things being living documents, but once it's approved by a board, it can start to feel very sacred. And it's not, hopefully it's in a Google doc, right? You can edit it, it's not forever. You don't wanna change it every other day, but it's also not a sacred text. So finding that. I was gonna ask, and Julie, I know you've got similar questions too. And I don't think we're done talking about this, right? But how have strategic plans changed since March of 2020? Are you seeing that they have? If they are, what are some of those big changes that you're seeing? I'm really curious kind of like where we are today. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think there was kind of a sense of like, we're just gonna throw strategic planning out the door because we can't predict anything. Well, that would be another kind of misnomer that I would say that strategic planning is actually about predicting the future. It's not, we can't predict the future. If March of 2020 didn't teach us anything, I would hope it taught us that. But it's about, how do you wanna shape your future? How do you, what intentions are you setting? Where are you gonna put energy in the organization? And I would hope that people are, let me set some goals, let me set some intentions, but also hold them, not hold onto them so tightly. So going back to that, it's not sacred, they're goals that you set, but you may look at them a year later and say, no, this part isn't quite right. We need to change this wording. We need to make some updates. So, being able to kind of hold it a little more loosely, if you will. You know, I agree with you, Jared. I mean, that's something that was kind of on my question train, if you will. But for me, when I look at the ecosystem of those that can get engaged in strategic planning, a lot of times it becomes incredibly punitive because you're not making your goals. You're not reaching the goals and then you hate the strategic plan. You look at it as this like, just this burden, right? As opposed to a tool. And I'm wondering how we can kind of reframe this and get people more excited. As Jared said, looking at the opportunity to have the discussions, make modifications and kind of living through the process as opposed to we did it or we failed, right? Does that make sense? That's such a great point. That's such a great point. And I'm thinking about my process, so I set myself goals daily and weekly and monthly, all the things. And when I'm reviewing them of did I or didn't I, I've stopped saying no and I've started saying not yet. And that feels much less punitive to myself because usually I think myself and I think nonprofit leaders, usually our visions, our ambitions are actually bigger than our capacity. And then we beat ourselves up about why is that? The thing that I hope for everybody in the sector is for everyone to just start being a little more realistic about your capacity so that you're stretching, right? It's not that you're not being ambitious but you're not being so overly ambitious that then yeah, you end up feeling like a failure instead of wow, so we didn't get 100% but we are 50% further than we would have been if we hadn't set the goal. Right. Well, Jared, I think of you being so good at doing the better, best, you know, kind of moving forward. It seems to me that you've always, you know, you've always had that vision, right? Todd, can you share? I do, yeah. So Carol, what she's talking about is when I set goals with my clients, I really encourage them to set three layers of goals, a good, a better and a best. That way we're always celebrating. And I would say too, in addition to this because I do like the three goals but believe it or not, I've worked with some clients during the height of the pandemic and they blew those goals out of the water very quickly and they didn't imagine they would, especially during that time of which we were all living. And so I think having an additional fourth goal, fifth goal, you know, then they can add to it to say, okay, we've done this, now we can add, you know, perhaps an additional lofty goal. But Carol, I love your not yet. It reminds me, Julia, of our dear friend, Jackalotto, who talks about the power of the word yet. So I love that you have that in your, you know, resource belt as well, Carol, because that word yet is super powerful. But there, you know, there's a lot of shifting, there's a lot going on, not to mention, we are moving into a presidential, you know, campaign year and that shifts a little bit about how we in the sector, you know, approach fundraising or how we approach our donors in particular. So there's a lot shifting, I think, around strategic planning at this time. Yeah, and I really, I really appreciate the good, better, best framework so that, you know, yes, because I think that is one of the things that helps things be successful is to have a way to celebrate your small wins and celebrate your successes. So one of the things I do for myself is write by a daily wins or a to-done list. I have a to-done list, you know, I have a daily win, not just what did I not get done, but yes, I got these things done. So yeah, celebrating that progress. I love it, it's really smart. I have a daily to-do list and I'm going to go back and I'm going to change it to done list. It's a thing that you get to have a to-done list. Yeah, Carol, I love that. I love, love, love that. Well, you have been a wonderful way to start as Jaredoy says, our monye. Carol Hamilton, pardon me, Grace Social Sector Consulting. GraceSocialSector.com. You can learn more about Carol on her website. Carol, you're coming to us today from the Washington, D.C. area. We talked about that in the green room, but not on the show. So we are thrilled that you're here with us and giving us some great ideas. And so many of our nonprofits, I mean, they're looking at this strategic planning process coming up, trying to figure it out, getting it going. And so this has been a great conversation to have it, especially this time of the year. You know, in the season's turn and we start challenging ourselves to, you know, get more structured. We've gotten through the beginning of the year and all that. I think this has just been a really great conversation to have. So thank you, thank you so much. We have a lot of other partners to thank. Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, 180 Management Group, Fundraising Academy at National University, JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd, Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. You know, Jared, I was so excited to have this conversation because I know this is the work that you do so often and, you know, all of the consultants out there that were navigating this through the pandemic and the ups and the downs of the pandemic, making these decisions, even framing up conversations. It's really powerful, really powerful. So thank you very much, ladies. We end every episode of the Nonprofit Show with our mantra. And I always tell Jared, it means something different to me almost every day. And the message goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. Thank you, ladies.